Rethinking the Technical Interview

I think about interviews too much. I haven't done many lately, but everything I've been hearing scares me, so it was time for a rant.
My technical interview notes: t3-tools.notio...
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[@musamutetwi1948]

I support this 100%. Tech interviews are heading towards a bad direction. I'd rather someone is tested for what they applied for rather than slapping leetcode questions and using that as a measure for prowess.

[@Pavel-wj7gy]

Leetcode problems are not always bad. Sometimes you get a good interviewer with whom you just talk the ins and outs of the problem. To such an interviewer your thought process is more important than whether the solution is a success. Those people are very rare, though, and it's been like 2 years since I saw a person like that. It all depends on the interviewer and their enthusiasm.

[@CottidaeSEA]

​@@Pavel-wj7gy That's just a good interviewer. They'd do well no matter what the coding part looked like. They might do even better if they don't use leetcode.

[@vitalyl1327]

but how? The problems engineers working on in real life are, normally, quite big, complex and entangled. You cannot give any such problem on an interview and see an engineer devouring it bit by bit in a course of one hour. He'll need 3 to 5 months to simply start getting into this problem at work. So how can we assess an engineer, if not by a smaller scale problems that still, hopefully, have some of the properties of the larger ones?

[@chess_ramone]

@@vitalyl1327 Have you tried culture?

[@vitalyl1327]

@@chess_ramone culture fit is not a predictor of engineering abilities. And these days there is an insane amount of impoators, of pseudo-engineers wbo Dunning-Krugered themselves into believing tbey are capable while tbey are very far from it.

[@mryo_]

Awesome video 👏👏👏

[@mikesweeney70]

This is gold.

[@georgekrax]

That is dope! 🤩

[@bobfearnley5724]

What do you think about IQ tests in the tech interview prescreen?

[@hellowill]

Fuck leetcode. I did over 1,000 questions, and top 4% in the contests. Got a job from that. 3 years later I'm looking again and they still want to ask more leetcode shit??? System design is fun, but leetcode is such a waste of time tbh.

[@rickdg]

Given performance anxiety, I would also consider a not-so-technical interview. Talk about some points in their CV and linger a bit on the technical stuff, measure their interests and curiosity.

[@jan.frederik]

The realist option is awesome. I wonder why I never thought about that option. So simple. So genius

[@Khari99]

Thank you for talking about this. The interview process is broken

[@abeliangroup43934]

As a cs student, I do feel like leetcode still has its place for internships and new grad positions. Grinding 100-200 hours of leetcode to be ready for any interviews is not a bad deal. And I do feel like if I was able to learn leetcode good enough to solve mediums/hards, there's a good chance I would be able to learn things on the job and do well. I've had interviews where I was tested on my knowledge instead of my problem solving ability, and those interviews are more stressful. As someone with little experience, I can forget some knowledge or not be able to delve very deeply, but I feel like I could learn it on the job if I was given the chance.

[@pedpess]

ChatGPT being able to code makes the take home assignments a bit trickier in the future I think. Curious to see how would be the workaround for the companies that are still having take home assignments and how to overcome ChatGPT era of automation.

[@ShrikantKalar]

Great Video! I agree with u 100%

[@Hiperultimate]

If I'm interviewed for the tech stack I'm getting hired for. I wouldn't even feel bad if I fail that as I would know that it was not something out of my hand and it was my lack of skills with that stack. It will not only help me prepare for the next one but also give me some faith in interviews :/

[@sam.0021]

This made me curious, so I gave myself a mock interview with the Pokemon problem. I'd definitely choose either "do a real life problem" or "bring your own work". Great idea to allow a custom project. It can definitely show a lot more about what a candidate thinks about. I also have a question: what would you say to a person that thinks interviews should be as uncomfortable as possible to see if you can really "handle it"? (whatever that means) Great vid as always.

[@sakushimei]

I'm not the person you're asking, so sorry for 'interrupting', but here are my 4c. If your job is stressful and you need to check if people are going to be ok in a stressful environment, then you can do uncomfortable interviews. On the other side, if you're not going to have stressful stuff going on, I suggest only making it uncomfortable until it could "go wrong" (or not even trying to). That said, if I had a job interview where someone put me on an uncomfortable position, I'd likely not work there even if I passed the interview; mostly because I wouldn't like to work on a job that would put me into that situation. But if people are quitting your job because of that, or you hire someone that could have problems, then filtering is most likely a necessity. Just... don't let it become a necessity if possible? I haven't been in the industry for too long (only 8yrs) so whenever I'm into a stressful job I don't last more than 3 months because both me and my "boss" would rather find someone else to work with. It's usually a lack of "something" so necessary that I'd rather quit than let it keep going. Stuff like Elon's Twitter - I'd rather die than work on it. So please take care of your employees (and good job if you're already doing so).

[@malvoliosf]

There is something to be said for a consistent process. You might interview 10 candidates for a spot; it’s nice to be able to compare apples to apples.

[@cobrasys]

I *wish* Principal-level interviews _didn't_ use LeetCode-type questions (or useless "systems design" whiteboarding)... 😭

[@hyper_channel]

that's hilarious, I didn't know about the Dan Abramov interviews thing, that highlights very well how dumb current interviews are. It's like hiring for your game and declining John Carmack

[@bruh-rr6pl]

I had an interview 2 weeks ago. The interviewer pulled out some crazy dfs hard question. I said i dont know how to do this... It was for a frontend role too. Mind you, I have shipped dozens of app. Most recent one having 10000 users.... Fuck leetcoding. I rather build

[@BarrySlisk-g6v]

I never really use any algorithms in my job. I get data from some sort of storage (database, CMS, API) and somehow display the data on the screen.

[@ivanrenescorcia]

Theo, would you use NextJs with React-Query ?

[@Garentei]

At least Leetcode style interviews provide a common protocol between interviewers and interviewees. You know exactly what you’re expecting. You’re going to onboard at their company and learn their tech stack anyway. I think it’s better to prove that you’re intelligent, thoughtful and can learn/solve anything they give you instead of answering some bullshit trivia questions I could have googled at the job in 5 seconds. For example, SpaceX asked me how a vector was implemented in C++. I didn’t actually know at the time and didn’t really care, and the interviewer sighed and thought it was a red flag. I googled it after the interview and found out it was something so stupid that I learned it by reading less than a paragraph.

[@cooltrashgamer]

I think the reason companies like google require leetcode type interviews is because a lot of engineers are truly awful at optimizing algorithms to run at scale, they have no idea how memory or data is fundamentally being created, copied, moved around, etc. You can’t scale something to a youtube scale if your engineers have no idea how to to optimize things. Unfortunately some things really are math tricks that you either know or don’t know, and they would probably never naturally “come to you”. So it’s preferred to hire people who already are strong in that kind of problem solving, and also have the requisite technical background and intuition to implement things like that. But yeah, if you’re hiring someone to be a front end web dev or implement something that doesn’t need to scale to tons of data, then of course, lc probably shouldn’t be required.

[@Unc3]

I interview at startups in London UK quite often, Im very pleased to see the trend of everyone ditching the traditional interviews in favour of "walk me through a recent project" or "explain a piece of tech you enjoy working with to me like I'm 5" and my favourite "let's talk code". Hope the rest of the industry follows.

[@yehorpidhornyi9999]

what's "let's talk code" ?

[@KillasStayFly]

That’s awesome

[@Unc3]

@@yehorpidhornyi9999 just a 30-60min long conversation about anything code. Start Smalltalk and wrap up arguing about whether golang is viable for whatever problem they're facing. One interviewer ended up solving a docker issue I was facing at work at the time lol

[@skyhappy]

how do you objectively judgd such interviews

[@Garentei]

@@Unc3 Who gives a shit about your tech stack though. Leetcode style interviews provide a common protocol between interviewers and interviewees. You know exactly what you’re expecting. You’re going to onboard at the company and learn their tech stack anyway. Who gives a crap about some bullshit trivia question I could have Googled in 5 seconds in the actual job?

"Your best engineer is only as good as your interview process" - Theo

[@GustavoDiaz93]

The problem is how do you scale these tech interviews in a big tech company? It’d take a lot of time to review every candidate. So, for smaller companies this is the way to go but for big companies I’m not sure.

[@Vim_Tim]

Agreed. The whole point of a "standardized" interview process is consistency, both for training interviewers as well as evaluating the relative performance of candidates.

[@sonnetsoftheapocalypse]

While its true that the current mode of interviews is not ideal, if we are going to have interviews suggesting only walking through previous projects and code up snippets of API (in contrxt of backend engineer), this will never allow the interviewee to never switch stacks and never evolve unless we do a side hustle/project.

[@BlakeSim]

Although I am watching this video after subscribing LC premium, I totally agree with that

[@dmitriylevy7865]

11:55 is one of the things I bash recruiters for. If I failed interview, TELL ME WHYYYYYYYY. WHAT DID I DO WRONG???? WHERE???? At least give SOME DIRECTION to the interviewee that failed so that they can grow

[@Go_with-Christ]

Its funny that frontend Andys want to avoid algorithmic interviews :))

[@twistedsheep]

Thanks!

[@t3dotgg]

🫡

[@sebsplatter914]

Damn, I would genuinely enjoy this process, feels lika an actual evaluation :D

[@SudharshaunMugundan]

THIS. And ByteBoard is another interview experience company which gives you a real world problem and lets you implement a feature from the problem. Recently had a round with a company. Totally cool.

[@heathledger7291]

You seem more thoughtful and involved than most other "interviewers"

[@oligreenfield1537]

I do the technical screen for my tech consulting agency I'm convinced I will use your framework

[@CaimAstraea]

Yes I think they will move towards experience , what would you do kind of things. And discuss about things.

[@noriller]

This is surprisingly insightful. But say, how about the "before" this interview? What you usually do to filter candidates?

[@3sPROne1]

I'm somewhere in-between on this one - I'm up for giving more real-life tasks on interviews, but I also think Leetcode's algorithmy challenges can show who has better problem-solving skills even if they're not related to a job. Coming from a person who usually slays front-end related tasks, but fails miserably general algorithm ones.

[@noelcovarrubias7490]

I stopped watching after: "Leetcode grindy crap is willing to sit there and grind through things that make no sense". Algorithms and Data Structures are VERY important for a Software Engineer.

[@Green_44_]

Anyone else immediately check if he’s hiring?? 👀

[@fingerman4086]

As someone who has been applying and getting denied for the past 6 months, I love this. I feel pretty confident in the things I’ve built, and in the things I’m capable of doing and learning, but man do I hate leetcode questions. More than the technicality, it just feels like a field of gotchas, coupled with interviewers who refuse to give feedback during the problem and just nod along. I love the Pokédex problem, because it’s realistic, and I feel like I could do it front to back, even if I’d need to put a little mental elbow grease into actually writing out the syntax. I feel confident in it because it’s what I enjoy doing! Just let people feel good about themselves, because if you’re a decent place to work, you won’t make me feel on edge or at risk anyway.

[@HenrikVendelbo]

Listened to your first minute. Already spot on. Engineers are the worst interviewers

[@bonquaviusdingle5720]

Leet code problems are the most irrelevant things when hiring a good engineer. There are way more important things: Can you communicate functionality and features like a real person? Do you know important libraries and Frameworks? Can you document and debug your code? Can you write proper unit, integration, and performance tests? Can you expose functionality behind an API or CLI? Can you choose the best engineering design patterns and implement the correct metaprogramming structures?

[@bilbobeutlin3405]

Where can I apply just for Theo to give me feedback on my projects and workflow?

[@nathansodja]

Your moustache is enviable

[@stevenirby5576]

I would LOVE to interview. Sadly, the place I work at has laid off 50% of the staff and will not hire anyone soon. -_-

[@shroomer3867]

I think that the standard LeetCode interview questions got popular because they can be done on a mass scale at a fast pace. When you're a company like Google, Microsoft, etc, then it only makes sense to use that form of interview because they have a more global scale and each second is counted for and costs a lot of money. Still, doesn't excuse how fast paced they are, your way of interviews are more slow, interesting and most importantely: *Humane*

[@asagiai4965]

This is a lot better than most tech interviews. I think the best part of this, is; it allows better communication between the interviewer and interviewee.

[@_____case]

If you are building a database, it is incredibly important to know how to construct and traverse B-trees. However, only 5% of engineers work on problems akin to this and they tend to work at the big bois, because that's where that kinda work gets done.

[@akilhimu5735]

Why always some non leetcode or non cp person talk about leetcode or cp! I never found any person who is good at these leetcode type problems talking about opposite!

[@jamesandersonwalsh]

I’ve started just noping out of tech interviews if the very first step is leet code. Give me a few days, and a pretty simple full stack problem that’s related to your business problem and then let’s talk about the solution. That’s far more interesting, gives the company better information and is more enjoyable for the candidate.

[@NorweskiDrwal]

Yep. Imagine you are autistic and heavily pragmatic. You apply for a frontend role and you get leet algo tests that have nothing to do with the job. Now sprinkle some ADHD “tabula rasa” brain on top of it and you have a recipe for not getting a job with 6 years pf experience. I have to run my own IT business in order to work in IT, because companies are lazy and can’t be bothered to hire specialists properly. What happens is that you end up hiring people who learned to answer per blueprint and can’t think creatively anymore.

[@cassiosalvador7961]

Such a great video. Thanks a million!

[@ravenecho2410]

we as a team as a part of my company (not apart of the channel, for clarification) will strive to do better, great call to action, theo is 1000000% right your engineers and scientists quality are a product of your selection process, 10000% facts. damn

[@voikalternos]

Here I am thought I knew nothing about react until I saw 2nd option's example thinking the heck that is easy as hell

[@fransis4448]

Great video and I totally agree with you on every single word and I like the Notion doc (I will steal it). I saw and did a lot of Tech Interviews where the main purpose was to make the candidate fail

[@djee02]

We do a home technical test where you have 48h to refactor and optimize intentionally bad code. It's low pressure for the candidate, more aligned with what they would be doing if hired and really effective for evaluating a person's level.

[@JosephThibeault]

How might you use this interviewing framework to determine the level of an engineer? L1-L8

[@tomsheldonworld]

agreed 100% . I have seen a lot of devs just grinding leet code more than practical development of apps or understanding core concepts that needed for their development workflow.

[@seyyedkhandon]

Thank you it was great choice. I had some interview in the last months, Unfortunately after all process and doing home assignment and the team lead was happy about that and excited, they suddenly rejected me and no one answers my email or LinkedIn messages on what was the problems... I wish It wouldn't be bad to tell those companies names to prevent others to get stuck with those...

[@gerryramosftw]

Doing interviews now and maybe 2-3 out of 10 companies ask realistic questions like you mention here, the rest are still asking typical leetcode problems where sometimes it boils down to if you have seen the problem before progress though i guess

[@Sad-mm8tm]

omg Freddie Mercury hi ~owo~

[@mqasemniksefat4202]

dude you should use these timestamps, I got lost watching a 15 min video

[@greatcreate82]

This video brings up an obvious truth in our industry. You can be a dev that has shipped prod ready code in modern frameworks for 6 yaers, but when you hit the job market you need to practice for leet code interviews like your are studying for the Bar exam. How about an interview system that is multi option, that lets candidate show strengths and not a gotcha game. Theo is spot on.

[@abel090713]

I've heard you say 'do more interviews' and it always confused me a bit. Does it mean do more interviews as an interviewer or applicant?

[@darrenvong9404]

11:57 needs to be repeated louder. The number of times I've done interviews in the past to then hear close to nothing back after a rejection is soul crushing and frankly, quite disrespectful considering the time and effort that's been put into the process. I reckon if more companies do this, we might help to crack the talent shortage problem a bit, as it might well be that they're turning down perfectly qualified engineers for silly reasons with bad interview processes.

[@meostyles]

The only useful interviews that use codility don't give some arbitrary coding problem to solve, the candidate is presented with either a simplified problem of something that is of relevance to the company and often refactoring / code reviewing crappy code. You can get a much better sense of how good the candidate is

[@assertnotnull]

I am a new father and I think leetcode is unfair to devs that have other things in life than practicing for those. I also prefer to use some of my free time to work on personal projects than practicing those that bring value ONLY for interviews.

[@howuseehim]

The moustache has too much credibility to just ignore this video

[@老谈]

You look like super saiyan

[@eliana993]

It would be great if they did only one or two of those in the process but I saw one startup doing a 6 step process where you apply and do an initial call, and then a programming interview, then a pair programming expertise, then an on-site where the cto grills you on your past experience for 2 whole hours, and then an unpaid trial project that can be anywhere between a half day and 2 days. And they are separate steps so at any point after spending all that time they can end the process. Most companies will give you a take home before even considering you. It’s just too long and too much of an investment. That 6 step interview process was for a startup that barely has funding enough to hire people full time they hire on contract.

[@cognitivecache]

Practical questioning is the way, nice work.

[@mohamedahmedtaher802]

I feel that you are missing a core part of the reason why companies use leetcode problems especially bigger ones, It's to filter out as much people as possible given they get 100s of thousands of applicants, they are willing to have false negatives as a cost of getting much less false positives.

[@cryptoaddict6715]

I absolutely love this.

[@spotgaming4668]

Trust me if interview where being taken like this, there is no company i would not crack. Not boasting about myself, but all the questions in this felt so easy, yet i am scared of tech interview just for those dumb leetcode questions, i am not afraid of solving questions, its just that the time frame that is given to solve is less as might need little more time getting arounf the algo problem as i am not grinding leetcode or other CP problems

[@seannewell397]

lol @ dan being the creator of react (4:15) - doesn't he say he isn't that and got involved post-inception?

[@VijayKumar-dn4pz]

Thank you

[@vitorpchavess]

great video dude

[@jl_117]

LeetCode is like the SAT of coding job prep

[@lord_nikon_010]

Tech interviews became a sport.

[@viniciusantonio2253]

You can learn algos easily if needed, and it should be the default point to only spend your time when needed, learning algos that you might not use at all its a wait of time, the interview should be about the people, are they good at learning? do they want to stay updated? can they make a project from start to finish?

[@mosescosme8629]

I choose Option n: Freestyle dancing.

[@sardorchallenges]

Great video

[@SuperSuneel]

I love this approach

[@geoffpearce389]

Your best video

[@miguelangeles5667]

Awesome video with great ideas! This makes me want to launch a startup, just so that I can get to hire people using these methods

[@OurDivineKing]

Did you mean maintainer of React, not creator of React? @4:10.

[@RickyGarcia_Learning]

It's a bummer, I had a few promising job prospects and I lost out because of the tech interviews. I either barely squeaked by or not at all. s a self-taught frontend engineer, this is difficult. I've decided that never again and I've had to grind Leetcode, about 130 problems so far. I've learned a few new things with TypeScript and JavaScript be overall, I've been learning LeetCode, for the sake of interviews.

[@supfreshitsourturnbaby]

When I interview people I dont really want to see coding, i'd rather ask open ended questions about the technology that allows the candidate to demonstrate what level they are on instead of seeing how much time theyve wasted on leet code

[@oordnave]

Valuable lessons. Thanks for that!

[@nullzeon]

I love the "Dan being the creator of React" joke

[@pencilcheck]

theo is very honest guy, but not everyone wants that in an interview. unfortunately.

[@archmad]

you are preaching to the wrong crowd. we all agree, except to those who insist

[@ryan.connaughton]

Love this

[@reactjs1900]

But companies will still ask 😢

[@facundopellicer7514]

Great thoughts Theo, what about hr interviews?

[@ayushgogna9732]

FACTS 💯

[@irtazahussain8118]

wow

[@hszt4414]

100% amazing

[@anasouardini]

"The Realist" option is really cool.

[@qu0cbinh.f4ke]

I love you guy!!!