Should You Play Dune: Imperium? - Board Game Review

[@UKDagnar]

Personally think that boardgaming is being destroyed by the clamour for minis in everything. KS projects are being judged just on the number of minis included these days. I like wooden meeples, a fancy expensive miniature delivers nothing more other than increased cost. The fact Direwolf had to do an upgrade pack with minis proves my point, thank god they made it an optional extra rather than doubling the cost of the base game so they could include the unnecesary miniatures.

[@markusbiewer2756]

This! The game is fine as it is! I won't be buying that upgrade pack.

[@revimfadli4666]

This obsession with "acceptable" components also induces some economic gatekeeping

[@matiasgodoy399]

Saaaaaaaaaame bro! I mean I love minis but cmon you don't need them AT ALL! Although, this game is really poor on the aesthetics side, could have been re-designed, make it darker even, instead of adding minis.

[@lystic9392]

It's interesting because for me Dune feels like it has more depth than Arnak but I think that's because of the level of the interaction and the more complex resource puzzle in Arnak, which causes me to focus more (too much probably) on my own tableau/puzzle. In Dune I am more busy with things like: I want to get the Swordmaster and it takes 8 solari, but I will be last in round. Nobody has 8 solari yet, and to get that solari they'll want spice. I can get myself to hoard the spice, then I won't have any trouble getting the Swordmaster. So I feel in a weird way more strategic with Dune because it is lighter in its resource interactions.

[@revimfadli4666]

So more depth from player interaction and less from solitaire parts?

[@ВячеславШолохов-ф9п]

Completely agree with your point

[@matiasgodoy399]

Also Arnak is kind of "less than a deck builder" IMO. I love it, but plays quite differently.

[@brotherhorus4316]

Great review, love the graphic and presentation, but as an owner of Dune Imperium and Ruins of Arnak, we all prefer Dune, much more interactive and tense. Yes the board is boring, but the game is no worse for it, although looking forward to the upgrade to snazz it up😉🤣🤣

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Fair enough! I'd say the game is worse for looking so bad though. I have to stare at these cards and that board constantly. If they both look dull, I'm less invested. Dune has more interaction yes but only because of the combat, which doesn't carry the game for me, especially as you're shifting cubes! :P I won't upgrade my box even though it's on the shelf. It's fine for the price I paid for it, but not worth the upgrade price. Mini's will only stand out more on the dull board! :P

[@mbrochh82]

@@TheBrokenMeeple agreed, given how bare bones the combat is, minis won't do anything. I ordered them, but after playing the game a few times I already know I won't be using them 🤦‍♂️

[@brotherhorus4316]

I think the art on the cards is very good, its only the bland board. I also do not class as Dune as a deck builder its more of a worker placement game with some deck building.

[@brotherhorus4316]

@@mbrochh82 I will😉

[@dougsundseth6904]

My take: Aesthetics: The board is very functional and easy to use, and adding more stuff to make it prettier would make the gameplay worse. The card art varies between decent and excellent, the cards are very easy to understand and explain, and the balance between play and pass utility is fascinating. The pieces are functional but not particularly interesting, which also means that they're excellent as game pieces, since they're very easy to understand and distinguish. I don't have any problem with the aesthetics here and the graphic design is extremely effective. For me, at least, the user interface of a game is far more important than the art, and this game excels there and doesn't have major negatives on the art side. Theme: Absolutely excellent. All of the stuff that didn't engage you absolutely makes sense if you know the world. Game play: Very good, bordering on excellent. The decisions are difficult and vary significantly from game to game. The balance between worker placement and the innovative card deck works perfectly for me. If there were more detail, the cost would be more complexity, probably more length, and almost certainly more cost. I think the balance works well. Overall, each time I have played the game I have liked it more than the previous time. We'll see how long that continues.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Games can look gorgeous and still be perfectly functional. Rune Stones is pretty as can be, not a single problem reading any card or part of the board. Could you imagine what Ryan Laukat could do with this game if he introduced his world to it rather than Dune? Beautiful! I don't know what card art you deem to be excellent, but it was lacking for me. Graphic design is perfectly fine, no problem with that, but graphic design isn't beautiful, it's functional. And yes it's easy to understand and explain, that's not aesthetics, that's ease of play and rules. Again Rune Stones, perfectly easy, looks gorgeous. As for the theme, I'm sure the place names and factions all make sense if you know the lore, but it doesn't come out in the game. I'm playing with Fremen cards, I feel no different to you playing with the "Empire" faction, forget their name. As I said, it's just Easter Eggs. It's like me playing a Doctor Who themed game in space and there's a planet called Skaro that gets me a cube. I can go "oooh I know that from the series", but I'm still just getting cubes.

[@dougsundseth6904]

@@TheBrokenMeeple I consider Rune Stones to be a classic example of the art getting in the way of the game. The board is far too busy, though it is indeed pretty. We also disagree dramatically on what might constitute good art in a game, as witness our varying opinions on the art in Brass (noted in your recent 10 Games You're Wrong About live stream), which could as easily have been named 50 Shades of Mud. Fundamentally, I consider graphic design for usability to be an order of magnitude more important than pretty art when making a game. And anything that interferes with that usability detracts from the experience. Miniatures that are pretty but that can be easily confused at a distance, colors that are too similar, boards that are too busy, baroque cards with embellishment purely for the purpose of being pretty while detracting from readability -- all of these are major problems, IMO. As to the cards, I firmly believe that black borders improve the appearance of nearly all colorful art. There's a reason most photographers have gone to using iPads for displaying their work -- the black bezel works extremely well to set off the photography. As to the card art itself, I quite like Stilgar, Liet Kynes, the Fedaykin Death Commando, the Scout, ... and cards like The Voice work extremely well at their intended viewing distance. For the theme, I think any heavily themed game based on an IP both assumes and requires some familiarity with the source material for full effect. A Song of Ice & Fire is just a vaguely fantasy themed game with some special powers if you don't know the series, but it's extremely thematic if you do know it. The same sort of thing is true of Mansions of Madness and Eldritch Horror if you don't know anything about Lovecraft. In all of those cases, as in Dune: Imperium, the powers, spaces on the board, cards, abilities, whatever arise from and reflect the IP. The job of a game based on an IP is not to tell the story (in most cases), but to set a game in the world and reflect the elements of a story that has been told elsewhere. I submit that Dune: Imperium does exactly that in precisely the way that it should. All of which is a long way to say that "tastes vary" and this game very much matches my tastes. Most of the things you dislike are either irrelevant to my enjoyment of the game or actively aid it. Though the game play itself seems to be a place where we agree more. That said, I'm less concerned about the number of ways to get victory points than you are; after all, how many ways are there to get points in, say, Bridge? The long-term value of the game to me will be determined not so much by variety in the available scoring mechanisms as by the interest of the decisions that I have to make to do well in the game. So far, that's looking good, but we'll see.

[@mikolajwitkowski8093]

Knowing the theme is a must, for one the books are one of the most important ones ever written, you really should at least listen to the audio book. Also each and every card makes thematic sense, even those that seem generic like a gun copter actually evoke a specific scene from the book.

[@mikolajwitkowski8093]

Hmmm you're not the first reviewer complaining about aesthetics, so I am sure there is something there, but I don't see it. The game is beautiful, clean board, thematic look, beautiful illustrations. I like the wooden pieces more than the minis.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I can't see how this is beautiful though. But I can be envious because that means some of the really truly beautiful games are going to make your eyes sparkle in comparison!

[@mikolajwitkowski8093]

@@TheBrokenMeeple well said. 🙂 Out of curiosity do you find deserts beautiful? I do, and I love Dune board and how it uses desert imagery and colours.

[@que-tangclan]

I saw so many reviews saying it looked bland but when I pulled it out to my kids they loved the asthetics. Maybe the trailer helped

[@fan-i-am]

I really like Dune Imperium. My only problem with the game is with the Market, Turn order, and the Intrigue deck as a whole: randomness that negates all ur hard choices for combat, influence track or endgame just because someone plays a card. Every advantage should be earned as proven by ur foresight/choices not because of luck! Which is why I propose 3 changes: 1) Have the Market be 8 cards instead of 5 OR flip/refresh all unpurchased cards at the end of the round OR both! 2) Fix the Intrigue deck somehow, like drafting display 3 to choose from, so others know what u got, (if they remember), but don't know WHEN you'll play it! OR take out the Endgame VP cards & Plot pay for VP cards (there's only 4) 3) Have a mechanic that allows players to affect turn order! Such as: Have the CHOAM Secure Contract space also have a 1st Player icon meaning u get to give the 1st player coin to ANY player and they immediately become 1st player OR will be 1st player next round. OR each round Player lowest on the VP track goes first then 2nd lowest goes 2nd etc. ties broken per normal endgame rules

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

It definitely needs some house rules I feel, what you suggest could work.

[@bratsche1980]

When I see another deck builder/worker placement game come out of last year I immediately want to compare to Arnak

[@KabukiKid]

I can't wait to play both! heh

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Everybody is comparing, but Arnak was a 10/10. . . ;-)

[@nicholasfeliciano9500]

I've watched a lot of reviews, really like this guys tenure. Easy to watch and listen to and gets to the point and realistic

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Thank you very much!!!

[@npckse8508]

I have this and Arnak and this will be a game I keep long after arnak goes away. Both are great, but this one at least FEELS more interactive. I realize it is just the combat, but at least there is some type of interaction. In Arnak, the most interaction I had was a player ganking a guardian because I uncovered him after I had no more workers and he snagged him on the next turn. It will be interesting to see if either feels too samey over time. If Dune Imperium wasn't in the Dune setting, perhaps I wouldn't love it. Then again I loved Tyrants of the Underdark and it was not all that thematic. Although Tyrants of the Underdark was far more of a Deck Builder than either Arnak or Dune Imperium. I will say that being able to play Imperium in person, it feels and plays far better. Hopefully you get the chance to play with others in person soon!

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Can only hope, we find out more in a weeks time, but I doubt we'll get any decent lee-way until April :'( Lonely!!!

[@whatsabandicoot]

Great video, thanks for sharing! 100% agree on the aesthetics. While I don't mind the meeples and cubes, there's no excuse for the prototype vibe of Dune Imperium. Especially given how beautiful (IMO) the graphic design of the Gale Force Nine edition of the original Dune game is. That said, I personally prefer the game over Arnak. It creates a really interesting tension between players as you jostle for influence or power in the conflict. Arnak felt quite like MP solitaire to me by comparison. I was a little disappointed by the solo mode in DI. The app is brilliant, but the bots are very swingy in the conflict. Instead, it's very easy to win on intrigue and influence VPs as the bots don't react to your advancement like other players would. Still, a good filler and I'm glad they included it. Either way, both really fun games! Really enjoy their takes on the deck builder worker placement hybrid.

[@gs24-xor]

Awesome review Luke! And thanks for bringing the difference out with Lost Ruins of Arnak. When you have the chance could you compare it also with Endless Winter?

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

When it eventually comes out.... Will they be similar?

[@gs24-xor]

@@TheBrokenMeeple Dunno, Alex Radcliff did a comparision of the 3 so I suppose they are

[@JB-zi3dr]

Enjoyed the review. I wouldn't say the theme is super strong but I do think they've done a good job with the houses, factions and many of the cards as they do make sense if you know the universe. The aesthetics don't bother me at all really - the muted and clean look sorta works for me. Not really fussed about the minis either. I'm quite surprised that you are classing it as a light game - definitely pretty thinky and at least on par with Arnak in terms of decisions in my view. Glad you liked it overall though.

[@steelscout1]

I agree with your thoughts JB. I have both Arnak and Dune and they are both great but I like Dune more. It's got more decisions to make and I feel you compete in more places at once than in Arnak.

[@CK-mi3sd]

I know nothing about Dune universe, I think this game has more victory path than architect of the west kingdom... I love this game because of different factions which allow much replayability and strategies.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

You get VPs by factions (which every player does by default) the spice card and combat. That's the 3 main paths. The cards aren't varied enough to open up additional paths especially as the game doesn't last long enough to gather a bunch up.

[@johnpanagos5835]

@@TheBrokenMeepleI think they did it on purpose for the Victory paths. The game has more tense. They didnt want it to be another point salad.

[@CK-mi3sd]

I agree with John. Viscounts of the West Kingdom to me is a very point salad game, and you can sorta do whatever you want. The end game scores do not differentiate a lot between players. In contrast, in Dune Imperium, when your gaining alliance in one faction often means someone losing an VP. The zero sum nature also happen in battle: only one can win the valuable VP. The tension maintains throughout the entire game.

[@Nic1700]

Feels a bit unfair to equate the mechanical ways to get points to the strategic variety. A lot of games have just cards or tracks or just collecting sets, but have a lot strategic depths in the particulars and that's definitely at play here. The different cards in the deck allow you to buy into different strategies - there's definitely a Bene Gesserit, Fremen, and combat symbol strategies. Some of the player characters pair particularly well with a particular thing.

[@CK-mi3sd]

@@Nic1700 I agree. Even with buying cards some of the cards give you influence points advantages while others give you combat advantages.

[@revimfadli4666]

I think the immersion suffers from the lack of visuals on the main board. In games with original IPs they sometimes convey the characters with illustrations, in ways that tell you what those characters do

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

oh there's zero good visuals in this game :P

[@SenseiJae]

Spice is an analogy for oil. The story is thinly veiled treatment of the global wars over oil production.

[@SenseiJae]

Also you used the word grok wrong. It means to understand something intimately.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

:P I guess I do have to get in deep with the rules :P

[@mbrochh82]

Fair review. You have a blind spot since you don't know the lore. Virtually every single card and game mechanic is actually extremely thematic, but of course in the end it's still an abstract cube pusher and the game doesn't make you "feel" like you actually lead a faction and scheme against the others in a great conflict. I disagree on the aesthetics. They COULD be better, for sure, but they don't hinder the game enjoyment at all. Not every game needs crazy illustrations like your beloved Abyss, or like an overpriced Lacerda game, for example. I like that the board takes a back-seat so that the cubes on it pop a bit more. Anyways, what really counts in a review is an accurate description of how it plays and you got that right.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

A game where I have to stare at the board and cards constantly is hindered by me constantly thinking, ewww this looks dull. No it doesn't have to be Abyss levels but some effort is not much to ask for in 2021. Finding a good artist is easy.

[@daninanestean]

Thanks for the review. Although I agree it's not oozing with theme, it does help with the immersion if you know a little bit about the lore. At least some of the asymmetrical powers make more sense.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Yeah I agree, although a lot of the abilities are one-use only or very situational - would have liked them to be more involved.

[@constChg]

You rate lost ruin of Arnak 10/10 over this. I’m comparing these two and think Lost ruin of Arnak is easier to enjoy, sometime is does feel like a trap to pick up a more “strategic” game which also means harder to play with the wider group. Your take?

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Arnak is much better and honestly my rating for Dune will have dropped to 6/7 by now.

[@constChg]

@@TheBrokenMeeple Thank you, after taking your advice, i managed to learn both games through tutorial. I do feel that Dune's arguement for being more player interaction is somewhat quite different from what i would expect. On the other side, Lost ruin of Arnak is just smooth to play

[@winstonhammonds3314]

Good review, over all. I do have a question. You said that you know nothing about the universe, but then say that even if you did, the theme wouldn't be there. How did you come up to this conclusion, or did you just say that to hammer home your point? I only ask because some reviewers who are very familiar with the books and movies say that the theme shines through quite a bit. Keep doing what you're doing!

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Many confuse a "fitting" setting with a strong theme. The factions I'm sure make sense if you know the lore, but I don't feel any different moving up the Fremen track then I do the Emperor track. The locations on the main board are just slight variances of each other. 1 spice at one place, 2 at another, 3 at the other. If the Dune lore in this game was replaced with a generic Sci-Fi setting, it would make no difference to the gameplay or impact ones enjoyment of it. It's like if this was a Doctor Who game and one of the locations was Skaro. I'd go "oooh that's the Dalek's home planet, that fits with the lore", but that doesn't mean I feel like Davros when I go there to collect two cubes. . . .

[@winstonhammonds3314]

@@TheBrokenMeeple gotcha

[@noeldillabough]

Small correction, the Spice Must Flow card awards a victory point only once when you buy it.

[@KabukiKid]

Boy... I thought the card art was quite good, actually. It may help that I adore the Dune universe, granted. It is DEFINITELY worth the read... sort of like Game of Thrones in space... but better. ;-)

[@DoppelgangerF02]

yeah i think the artwork and board is perfect honestly

[@KabukiKid]

@@DoppelgangerF02 Yeah, I think the desert setting may turn some people off, because it can look maybe a bit stark. You can't really make it look colorful... I mean... you can, but it would be a mistake. lol

[@DoppelgangerF02]

@@KabukiKid yeah and it makes sens thematically the layout of the spaces on the planet even

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Ain't got time to read, but I'll watch the new movie on release. But compared to a lot of other art out there, this was subpar. The board especially sucks the life out of the room, though it's not as bad as say Carpe Diem! :P The setting may fit, but that's not the same as the theme being strong. How are the spaces thematic other than matching the names? It's a planet, you can approach places from anywhere. The Dune universe in general makes it look like it is. It may fit the setting, but given how little I'm invested in the theme when playing, why not make it another sci-fi universe that's more colourful? Give something like this to Ryan Laukat and he'll create a majestic ribbon of beauty. In fact, yeah, if Red Raven put this out, replaced Dune with its own world, and kept the mechanics the same - instant +1.

[@mbrochh82]

@@TheBrokenMeeple well the reason for that is obviously money. No chance in hell this exact same game would have made even half the money if it was in some newly created universe. And you don't need to invent an entirely new universe just to get a better game board, that's insane. They should have hired a better designer.

[@skeezaworkan]

IMO theme is extremely well integrated if you know Dune. It shows in almost every little mechanic in the game as much as in the overall feeling of plans within plans, etc.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Plans within plans? What does that even mean? Here you're basically collecting a couple of resource types, trading them in for points and then fighting with cubes. Even the locations all look the same because it's a barren desert. I'll certainly be intrigued to see if any extra theme arises from this after watching the movie.

[@skeezaworkan]

@@TheBrokenMeeple Like I said, it's all very thematic - even on the meta level, by the game flow itself - if you know the books :) But I get you :) E.g. dungeon crawlers for me are just "pushing plastic toys from tile to tile in order to fight other plastic in a boring dice contest in order to win some +1 to meaningless stat modificator" ;) So yeah, I get it, people see the theme when they have any interest in it. If not, there's just "pushing cubes on the tracks" for them. Also - I like clean, elegant and usable art design of Dune: Imperium. It's so refreshing to see a modern board game nowadays that doesn't look like the vomit or a result of accident in the painter's workshop ;)

[@TheTheshadow32]

A long rant for a game I really like to play solo. A good Bot too. And I am a wargamer, so this game is not even in my range of interest BUT it is quite a great challenge to play it for me. 9/10.

[@pochuyma9530]

I like his explanations of the gameplay. He obviously played it, and he adds great wit and a sense of humor to his descriptions. 🙂👍

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Thank you!!!

[@cutthr0atjake]

But Luke, how does it compare to the original Dune game that was re-issued in 2019?

[@Urutsini]

They are incomparable as they are nothing alike. The only similarities are the license.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

And I've not even played that one. Complete dune noob!

[@andrewkeane9077]

Hard to compare really. Same universe but totally differ game, a bit like comparing SW Rebellion with SW CCG. I love both. Games though. Maybe the older one more.

[@cutthr0atjake]

@@TheBrokenMeeple Sounds like a good one for you to review then! ;-)

[@simpson82k]

I agree with 8/10. Disagree with aesthetics being a huge markdown. Also, immersion is going to be a hard one to feel unless you know Dune's source material. That said, after hearing a few trusted reviews critique the immersion problem, I decided to make 'playing to flavour' the be all and end all of my strategy, in doing so I found that the abilities of the factions make sense, are well balanced, and guide game play in a satisfactory way.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Can only hope the Dune movie fills in the gaps for me.

[@simpson82k]

@@TheBrokenMeeple If the movie does nothing else, I hope it improves your gaming experience 😊 Sadly, unless you go full Dune fan boy, immersion will always be lacking with this game. I think you're point that the mechanics of this game would fare better for Dune and non Dune fans alike if the game was reskinned is an interesting one. Wouldn't be surprised if we see something in the near future.

[@stephanpalaczky2963]

Nice review. I'm surprised you haven't got into dune. You go on about sci-fi all the time but haven't tried on of the greats

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

It just doesn't look like a great setting and all I hear is, the movie and mini series arent very good. So I'll probably watch the new movie.

[@stephanpalaczky2963]

@@TheBrokenMeeple the world (or rather universe) building is the best parts of the books so much polish

[@chewiewins]

Great 1st book (alas never read rest of series). Hope new movie as good.

[@KyleJonesDrJones]

@@chewiewins The rest of the series is awesome too! I personally think the last 2 books drop off a little but quite a few people love them. You don't really understand the complete story until book 4!

[@mbrochh82]

@@TheBrokenMeeple You only really need to read the first book, but even that is a tough read. I don't even know why I liked it and can barely remember much of it. It's one of those works that does something to you and stays with you. Well deserved classic, I'd say.

[@fenrisianwolf9229]

Love your reviews. Keep up the great work! :)

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Glad you like them!

[@Duxa_]

Surprising you think Arnak is heavier game, I find Arnak to be an entry level game while Dune Imperium for more serious gamers. I wouldnt consider either to be heavy, but Arnak in my opinion is lighter. Love both, own both and all expansions with them. As far as using cubes, I wouldnt have it any other way. Easy setup, easy put away, mid game great representation of power.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

In no way would Arnak be "entry level". I wouldn't put it in front of new gamers. And anything beats cubes 😜

[@Duxa_]

@@TheBrokenMeeple but nothing stacks as well as cubes :) it’s so satisfying to have that perfectly aligned grid of cubes! I vastly prefer them over plastic soldiers (for example invaders in spirit island). The worst though? It’s cardboard. Have you see the atrocity invaders are in Horzions of Spirit Island? 😢

[@dansioui9819]

Nice review, Luke! Something about this game made me not able to pull the trigger... I do have Arnak. More up my alley.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Arnak is better overall.

[@paulallison6418]

So funny this review. People (mainly those that revere the lore) give this sooooo much love. I'm sure its a good game, I have not purchased it yet, I might not love it if its pretty light.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

It is fairly light yes, not gateway level light, but i wouldn't call it medium weight. And yeah I know nothing of the lore but will watch the new movie upon release.

[@paulallison6418]

@@TheBrokenMeeple The new movie looks pretty good to me, will definitely check that out. I have seen the old movie and read the book twice and the sequel. The book is pretty heavy going but as an audio listen it was really good.

[@wsiegel9539]

I agree with the look and the game play. If this was designed around some other theme, would it have the hype that it does with the Dune IP? I think not. I will gladly play Arnark over this any day. Who will be talking about this next year?

[@ninjamikeus]

About as many people as will be talking about Arnark.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Arnak doesn't have an IP to clutch onto though. People, inc me, talk about Arnak because it's an awesome game. Lately everything is all about Dune. Even Portal have a Dune game coming out. Just because the movie is coming out, people grab the license to take a piece of the cake. Here I think it works against the game. Could you imagine if Ryan Laukat took this exact game and ported it to his own "world" he uses? WIth his art? Oh my word!

[@wsiegel9539]

@@TheBrokenMeeple Like the latest "Now or Never." 👍

[@chewiewins]

Would help of Dune movie it is based on is already out. Hopefully an excellent movie as by one of best Directors around now. As for game, really like it, played on TTS twice. It's a lovely twist on deck builders

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Rather play solo or in person - on TTS it's so long. The new movie is the only way I'll get to experience any of the lore, but that trailer was boring!

[@RulebooksForYou]

I like the honesty; thank you!

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

My pleasure! Need to convince thousands of others of it! :D

[@joseg.6187]

Now format is great.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Thanks! Takes a lot to get it done!

[@MrJoelXIII]

Nice overview editing Luke, still this game doesn't inspire me, I'm more likely to hold on my copy of Lewis & Clark for a "spicy" deck-building and worker placement.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Fair enough!

[@ВячеславШолохов-ф9п]

I do like both Ruins and Dune, also hasn't read any Dune novels, but Arnak got nothing on Dune in fun and variety factor for me. Arnak is lacking player on player action and intrigue. Arnak is better game the less people play it, Dune is a completely different beast - 3 players game is WAY different than 4 player game. And nowhere in any other game your choice of character was that dependent on who's going first and what cards are available to buy. Dune is a deep deep and entertaining game.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Never noticed any difference in Dune aside from the standard tightness for worker spaces. Nothing deep about having half a deck if cards that are rubbish 😏

[@ВячеславШолохов-ф9п]

@@TheBrokenMeeple The difference between 3 and 4 is the tightness as you've said but it's much clever here since you can usurp all city spaces and deny troop deployment for others plus there's time in every game between 3rd and 6th conflicts, where swordmaster space is getting occupied by the first player, so you can predict at which point you need your eight solari. in 3 player game that tightness is absent and game is way too free, and alliance race goes smoother for 3rd person. I dunno i feel like its everdell with 3 players compared to four. For me Dune is a crisis management game, you can't do everything you want and you may not have the hand you want, but you gotta get some points. The difference between turn order and leader is huge in rise of Ix expansion. Since usually first player goes smuggling, since he can kiss his 2 influence in spacing guild good bye, so no interstellar for you, second goes fold space if he got 1 access in his start hand, since next turn is hello interstellar shipping, 3rd person usually goes to stillsuits to monopolize water, 4th one goes influence or early battle, based on which conflict it is, but that's basic, not talking about leaders, for example baron going first can go to folded space because of his ability, Thessia or Leto may go second and third because of their ring ability, Beast better going last and based on which tech tiles are available. If you would like, and you should, adapt new Bene Tleilax token from immortality expansion, that can once per game be spent to clear imperium row when you revealing your cards. Helps with rubbish cards taking place and you dont have to own immortality expansion.

[@nahumgardner]

So you'd rather than miniatures be included and have people priced out of the market for this game?

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Well how many fans bought the miniatures despite being a ripoff? 😏 Honestly I would just settle for some colour and artwork.

[@RocketMagnetUK]

With computer games I can readily overlook GFX/visual aspect if the gameplay is good enough. For board games I'm not as tolerant.. I'm paying for a physical product which is it's USP compared to video games. Maybe hard core board gamers will scorn this attitude like I do in the video game space but the latter can be vastly more complex mechanically Vs a board game so to me a board game has to look the part to offset the simplified gameplay mechanics. Maybe that makes me a shallow board gamer but it's up against other forms of entertainment so needs to be strong in what is basically one if it's key defining attributes.

[@SonoftheMustardTiger]

High quality video. We'll done

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Much appreciated!!

[@mbrochh82]

Our first game took three hours. The second 2.5hrs and the third 2hrs. I don't think this can be played in 90min with 4p.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

It's a little painful at four.

[@mbrochh82]

@@TheBrokenMeeple agreed, another one for the giant pile of games that are best at three :)

[@nadinewolfaardt5779]

Totally agree with this review, great game but the board art makes the experience a bit bland for me despite the good mechanics. If it had a more captivating appearance the hype could make sense.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

For me this game has actually gone down in rating. The kinks in the armour with regards to the slightly busted deckbuilding (half the deck has terrible cards and you can't mitigate your deck enough in the game) really put me off now.

[@citruesilver]

Tempting. But as I am not a fan of the books or the movies the theme does not draw me in at all...and the artwork...meh. Thank you for the wemm made an honest review. Two thumbs up!

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

You're welcome 😊

[@chrismurphy9932]

100% agree on the art, it's super bland. Also, there's absolutely no excuse for this in 2020. I've not bought good games because of this in the past (Legendary Encounters Firefly for example) and this will probably keep me away from this game too. It'd be different if it looked like the gameplay was mind blowing, but I'm really not getting that kind of vibe here.

[@DuGStp]

Dune with both expansions. 10/10

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I will give it a try with both if someone shows me it, but it's going to have to work wonders with that deck building system. My rating has dropped a couple points since this vid for sure.

[@andrethannhauser6302]

Havent you even played the PC game "Dune II" ? Whoever says Command & Conquer was the birth of real-time strategy games is wrong because it actually was Dune II. I havent read the books but the old movie is okay...by far not as good as e.g. Star Wars....but well when you play the board game for hours you can take the time to watch the movie in advance to get into the story.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I literally haven't touched a thing to do with Dune. I'm willing to give the new movie a watch when that releases.

[@laartwork]

It's not one of the top games of 2020... it's now in the top 10 of All Time. I really enjoy it and like the Dune theme (I think it's very important to gameplay). But yes surprised it is that high.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Same and now they remake the same game with a few tweaks and everyone goes mad - wait for it to be in BGG 10 next year i bet. :-(

[@revimfadli4666]

If only Copycat also got this much hype(despite the also bland board)... Especially with its much less cloggy, self-balancing market row(ripped off from TTA rather than Ascension/Clank)

[@Cryptandos]

I think the game is actually very thematic and asking to pick a different world for the game is nonsensical. If you don't know what it is about then maybe it's not for you. Now I understand that as a reviewer you would want to give feedback on all games and I understand that everything here is your subjective opinion... I just wanted to share mine :D

[@Cryptandos]

Oh and it works perfectly well on TTS :D It's all automated and so so smooth :)

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Automated............ish. All scripts I've seen don't get the "next round" part right. Also it's too long on TTS - you can't substitute hand-eye co-ordination for moving a mouse and keyboard for handing a deck of cards. Still fun, but I know that it's going to take twice as long. As for the theme - point still stands. The game isn't simply "for the fans" and no-one else. Other people have to pick up this game and enjoy it. But let's face it, the theme doesn't come out regardless. Each faction track works the same way as each other. The worker spaces are all similar to each other with barely a difference. I'm sure the place names all match the book, but I don't get an immersive feel out of it, only the horrible art! The setting may "fit", but that's not the same as having a strong theme.

[@stevekingswell9143]

The original movie was a classic.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I have to rely on the new one. I hear more bad reviews for the old movie then good.

[@rtmca1]

@@TheBrokenMeeple The criticism of the old movie is that its weirdness doesn’t seem to capture the spirit of the Dune novel. The novels of Dune may be the greatest contribution to imaginative fiction ever ...even more-so than the Game of Thrones (incomplete) series. The game doesn’t seem to be about anything that actually happens in the Dune novel. There is really little correlation except for the character cards. The planet is a bland desert, thus the bland board. That, at least, is true to the Dune novel.

[@ScytheNoire]

When I saw this board, I didn't know what they were thinking. Not sure you could get a more boring game board. Was also very disappointed that they just went with cubes. They completely cut corners with the components, most likely due to licensing costs. Should've just made up their own IP.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Indeed, they just used Dune because its the hotness.

[@johnpanagos5835]

Agree the art on the board is really bad.

[@AltarenGalil]

Its a strong game, though the overhyping hurt it more than it helped. Not sure it deserved all the top 10 of all time from the major reviewers.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Agreed, it's very good but top ten is really pushing it!

[@Duxa_]

its #7 of all time on BGG. So its not just reviewers that loved it.

[@FredzGreen]

Spot on, solo mode great, looks bad, but fun to play!

[@AlwayzFresh]

I don't read much, but I did spend 10 years to finish the Dune novel. Overall it was amazing, but boring and hard to follow. Hence the decade of slow reading off and on, re reading chapters etc.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I have to rely on the new movie.

[@Coffeemaker1978]

Thank you Luke :)

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

My pleasure!

[@J-Wheeler-G]

The main reason I didn't care for this game is because the board looks really boring.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

One of the most boring I've seen in a long while.

[@Optii87]

What's the point of talking about theme/immersion if you don't know anything about the book it's based on..

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Because this game won't just be played by die hard fans of the IP. Many will come in as casual and the game should still be immersive or thematic regardless. For example take Battlestar Galactica. Most haven't watched the series but the game is incredibly immersive and thematic regardless of your prior knowledge.

[@Optii87]

@@TheBrokenMeeple Because BSG is an quintessential Ameritrash while Dune is a euro game with a cool theme.

[@justind8586]

People are going nuts for this game lol

[@Oaklestat]

Thanks for the video. Helped me make up my mind to skip on buying this.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

No problem!

[@haseo1]

I love the box art, the rest looks terrible

[@Mrshagrath666]

You are wrong, go read the book, next!!! =D

[@benjaminmealer2618]

Yes you should...

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Starting to think the titles should be re-worked to "WHY I THINK X IS :P

[@matiasgodoy399]

I really much prefer Dune. Arnak has too little interaction in comparison. What I like of Arnak is the simplicity, Dune is way more complex to explain, and the theme certainly gets in the way. Also, I don't think anybody that does not know a thing about the lore of this game is really able to meassure its immersion. I'm not saying it's great, just I won't trust that angle.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Dune has more interaction I agree, I just wished it looked a lot better, took less time and wasn't so hyper focused on combat (the deck building element is subpar)

[@matiasgodoy399]

@@TheBrokenMeeple I definitely agree that it could look a lot better, and not with miniatures. The board and cards really need some love lol

[@olegyd]

Best game for 2020. That matter of fact!

[@Mcleody9]

Answer is Yes Saved you 18 minutes 😜🤣