Jason Drives The 2025 Lucid Gravity - The Carmudgeon Show w Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott - Ep 174

A double episode: First, our experts weigh in on Jaguar's new marketing stunt and concept. And second, Jason drives a prototype Lucid Gravity, the all-new SUV.
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This was a big week for Jaguar, with a controversial ad that got lots of attention, and a wild concept that previews its new 4-door electric GT. Jason feels it's important to remember that the ad served one purpose: to get attention on an automaker we called Dead Brand Walking. And it very much worked.
Jason's Van, Jynah, survived a 1500-mile round-trip to Salt Lake City, joining the mile-high club several times along the way. Thankfully, Vredestein Tires shipped a brand new set of Wintrac Pro winter tires just in time for alpine blizzards, because the Van, Jynah, had to make it across a mountain chain in the snow. Including climbing the famed Donner Pass - with chains.
Afterwards, Jason gets behind the wheel of Lucid’s latest creation - and second ever model - the new 2025 Lucid Gravity SUV. The boys discuss its unrelenting commitment to efficiency across the board: from its range, to interior and cargo space, and even mounting fuse blocks inside of chassis bracing on the Air sedan.
Jason admits to taking an engineering mule for a brief spin and recounts its handling dynamics. Later, while smooshing his face onto a pane of glass at Lucid HQ, Jason spoke with CEO, Peter Rawlinson. Peter personally engineered the ingenious rear hatch seal, and also showed off the new frunk seat with fold-out mud guard.
Then the boys lament the post-fact and internet-troll era which we, unfortunately, continue to live in. Derek defends his honor and encyclopedic knowledge from a viewer who claims the Mercedes CLK DTM had the first AMG engine - not the CLK63 Black Series. Too bad the viewer is incorrect (the CLK DTM used a derivative of the regular production M113; the Black Series used AMG's own M156. And Jason fights off M fans who argue they can “code out” the G80 M3’s faults.
Afterwards, they discuss the state of automotive marketing. First by reminiscing about automotive ads from 20 years ago with staying power, and then by debating whether or not Jaguar’s latest rebranding and ad campaign was a success. Does Jaguar's last-ditch effort to save the marque stand a chance at actually swaying consumers?
Or is it still a Dead Brand Walking?

[@naregmekhitarian7233]

44:05 “by the entire fucking audience” - not everyone. Some of us are incredible grateful for your voice, opinion, and perspective. Even in the few cases where I disagree with something you’ve said, your voice is a vital one and shame on those who try to bully you into silence.

[@pvtcmyers87]

I 100 percent agree with you on this.

[@shittywheelies7403]

Honestly I think it’s just his cybertruck “review” haunting him to this day. He has never back tracked or admitted he didn’t do his due diligence for that video, and hasn’t really recovered the public’s perception of him since then.

[@mgrunge1967]

Add me to the "not everyone list". The problem is that the detractors are louder and feel more compelled to comment. Lots of us who agree or don't agree but respect the perspective just enjoy the content without comment.

[@NEACHTWAIN]

My Monday felt so incomplete without Adam Sadler talking to an NPR host about cars

[@jharsh3376]

That’s some funny shit right there

[@PoliPantev]

My Monday felt so incomplete without Adam Sadler talking to an NPR host about 30 year old mercedes

[@alkalinetaupehat]

This should be pinned 😆

[@bencausey]

Good ol’ Sadler. 😂

[@nathansuss]

Please stick around the new car scene Jason, we need someone like you

[@ResumedPausing]

No matter what haters online say, I deeply respect your input and opinion on new cars. Please don't ever get discouraged from reviewing them!

[@josephgolio36]

I just went and read the comments on your M3 vs TM3 video on Instagram, it’s insane the amount of people missing your (very well articulated and clear) point. It scares me to share a planet with these people.

[@eugenux]

some people are more of driving enthusiast than others; brands should be encouraged to make cars for enthusiasts; a tesla, any tesla, as innovative as they are, are not driving enthusiasts cars; nor it is hyundai, nor lucid, nor no electric car brand/manufacturer. cars for driving enthusiasts are a whole other type; what camisa is doing in the last year is actively promoting EVs, and that's not ok, when you say about yourself that you're a journalists with a driver's heart inside. EVs are not and will never manage to be driver's cars, missing the most two important elements of a driver's cars: a real engine that makes real sounds and 3 pedals beneath the steering wheel. as for the m3 vs tesla, take a look on his own footage: he said that the tesla drifts better..and when you look at the footage, when it drifts, in but especially out of a drift, the car looks so so abrupt and unsettled!, by comparison, the m3 looks like he has done that continuously since getting out of the factory gates, smooth, predictable and controllable. Then he goes and says the tesla wins in the inside car/daily driving department...for the love of GOD, the uber cheap interior in a tesla cannot light a candle to the quality interior of an M3..and then he goes and says the reason for which the tesla is better is because the bmw has some effin diagonally lines on its enormous(and brash) screen; yeah, right, it is because of those diagonal lines, the bmw is worst, right?, for me and for all real enthusiasts(and for anyone with 2 brain cells, for that matter), these are bogus reasons which are not even true...he simply made them up to go with the script he wanted to expose/write(basically, his agenda) getting back to the main point; you cannot, you simply cannot call yourself a driving enthusiast and praise to heavens SUV EV tanks and electric sedans with no soul. saying about a 3 tons SUV that it handles better than all sports cars(like he did in this podcast) probably made Colin Chapman spin endlessly in its grave. Then on occasion he would go and say something like "the gt3 st could possibly be one of the best driver's car in the world!" or "t.50 might be the best driver's car in the world, being perfect in every way"...and then he goes back and says that a 3 tons EV handles better than any sports car in the world; the thing is, it cannot happen, it is one or the other but you do not and should not say the same things about both a 3 tons EV and a 1000 kgs 12k rpm manual supercar. weight is the enemy and no matter how you are programming those electric motors, never in this life a 3 tons SUV EV will handle like a sports/super car. He doesn't use moderation; if he would said something along the line of "it handles better than any of its rivals and good for what it is", sure, perfectly acceptable but, "better than any sports car in the world"...come on?!, come ooon!?! p.s. not really sure if he is doing it on purpose(to create engagement in his audience) or simply because he has become somewhat of a bipolar guy, when he talks about cars; but, I repeat myself, you cannot say the same things about both a 1.3 tons porsche gt3 s/t(or whatever real sports car) and about a 3 tons EV SUV...because physics cannot be cheated.

[@eugenux]

some people are more of a driving enthusiasts than others; brands should be encouraged to make cars for enthusiasts; a tesla, any tesla, as innovative as they are, are not driving enthusiasts cars; nor it is hyundai, nor lucid, nor no electric car brand/manufacturer. cars for driving enthusiasts are a whole other type; what camisa is doing in the last year is actively promoting EVs, and that's not ok, when you say about yourself that you're a journalists with a driver's heart inside. EVs are not and will never manage to be driver's cars, missing the most two important elements of a driver's cars: a real engine that makes real sounds and 3 pedals beneath the steering wheel. as for the m3 vs tesla, take a look on his own footage: he said that the tesla drifts better..and when you look at the footage, when it drifts, in but especially out of a drift, the car looks so so abrupt and unsettled!, by comparison, the m3 looks like he has done that continuously since getting out of the factory gates, smooth, predictable and controllable. Then he goes and says the tesla wins in the inside car/daily driving department...for the love of GOD, the uber cheap interior in a tesla cannot light a candle to the quality interior of an M3..and then he goes and says the reason for which the tesla is better is because the bmw has some effin diagonally lines on its enormous(and brash) screen; yeah, right, it is because of those diagonal lines, the bmw is worst, right?, for me and for all real enthusiasts(and for anyone with 2 brain cells, for that matter), these are bogus reasons which are not even true...he simply made them up to go with the script he wanted to expose/write(basically, his agenda) getting back to the main point; you cannot, you simply cannot call yourself a driving enthusiast and praise to heavens SUV EV tanks and electric sedans with no soul. saying about a 3 tons SUV that it handles better than all sports cars(like he did in this podcast) probably made Colin Chapman spin endlessly in its grave. Then on occasion he would go and say something like "the gt3 st could possibly be one of the best driver's car in the world!" or "t.50 might be the best driver's car in the world, being perfect in every way"...and then he goes back and says that a 3 tons EV handles better than any sports car in the world; the thing is, it cannot happen, it is one or the other but you do not and should not say the same things about both a 3 tons EV and a 1000 kgs 12k rpm manual supercar. weight is the enemy and no matter how you are programming those electric motors, never in this life a 3 tons SUV EV will handle like a sports/super car. He doesn't use moderation; if he would said something along the line of "it handles better than any of its rivals and good for what it is", sure, perfectly acceptable but, "better than any sports car in the world"...come on?!, come ooon!?! p.s. not really sure if he is doing it on purpose(to create engagement in his audience) or simply because he has become somewhat of a bipolar guy, when he talks about cars; but, I repeat myself, you cannot say the same things about both a 1.3 tons porsche gt3 s/t(or whatever real sports car) and about a 3 tons EV SUV...because physics cannot be cheated.

[@ac-kk9er]

It may also be a platform thing, Instagram is kinda known for having an extremely toxic and downright mental health harming community (just take a look into any trans person’s comments). I think that’s because of the further anonymity that comments on Instagram get because they don’t get displayed on your profile or anything, unlike Twitter where you can scroll through a persons profile and there can be some accountability there because of the footprint (as much as the internet can provide).

[@AADetailing]

This is my favorite podcast on the internet and has been for a while. Please never stop doing this and making car videos. Don't let the haters win!!

[@ArnoSchmidt70]

I PAY KZbin WITH MY DATA!

[@ChoonHound]

I hate when KZbinrs/podcasters act like they’re doing charity.

[@technom3598]

​@@ChoonHoundthey are. It's a lot more work than what you get paid for. Try it yourself and you will see how absolutely thankless all of it is

[@galactictomato1434]

WHO CARES

[@tymwalt]

I think he was kidding 😂

[@ef_baum5307]

You're bang-on about the Jaguar ad - nothing else on their channel has more than 30k views. That ad is at 3.2M, with comments full of whingeing, fearful people clutching their man-pearls.

[@OdyTypeR]

41:05 - Thank you, editor 👏. That's what I heard too. Sincerely, an adolescent trapped in an old man's body, who giggles at VanJynah jokes.

[@Carlostheaggie]

As a classic BMW owner that is active in the BMW community, we pretty much all agree with you about the new M’s.

[@DaneRThomas]

I so hope Lucid gets the midsize version out and make it available in Europe. I'd rather have a wagon than a SUV, but if it drives as well as the Air and Gravity, I can live with it.

[@Ride_Runner]

People are talking about some idiot at Jaguar and not about Jaguars' cars. That's how you know their advertising failed. If the ad doesn't convert into sales, then it's a fail. VW's ads back in the day were a little polarizing but funny. They also got people interested in VW cars, and that translated into sales.That's why it worked.

[@Specproof]

It's one of the best episodes so far. Keep up the good work!

[@brandonshriver6448]

Kind of funny hearing you two say the exact thing about Jaguar that I have been! A lot of Jag enthusiasts seem really upset about the proposed price point, and seem to be forgetting that for most of history Jaguars were not cheap. Their pricing was aspirational, however they WERE a "good value" compared to cars at a similar performance level. An XK-120/140 was only slightly more expensive than a Corvette of the time (and Corvettes aren't cheap), but was the fastest car in the world, eventually dethroned by the 300SL... which cost TWICE what the Jag did. The E-Type was in most ways better than a contemporary Ferrari and cost about half. The sedans as well, offered RR/Bentley levels of luxury in a bit more sporty package, at a steep discount. Harry Metcalfe (Harry's Garage) had a discussion on the concept car and directly talked about how it's going for a RR Spectre look. Now for the people who think Jaguar's pricing is too ambitious, the Spectre is a $500,000 car. Even the Lucid Sapphire is $250,000. A Jaguar that looks like the RR, and performs like the Sapphire (Jaguar head promised over 400mi range and over 1,000hp) for ~$120-150k is quite a value proposition.

[@pattymanz5776]

44:00 Jason! The people making those comments are illiterate 15 year olds. Don’t put so much weight on what they say.

[@davidziegenhorn6913]

Agreed. I also this it's a case of missing the forest looking through the trees. You guys get smothered in well deserved praise for your content, it's all too easy to remember and focus on the negative ones. Don't let the trolls win Jason.

[@ramdynebix]

As Sniffpetrol said in his SmithAndSniff podcast, Jaguar has tried a BRG revival twice and they didn’t catch so they gave to try something else because their traditional customer isn’t allowed to drive anymore

[@rubbersidedown5620]

The entire reason I watch you guys is because of your objectivity and professionalism in portraying things as factually as you can and then adding some humour on top. The editing work you do with Esposito is amazing. You guys did to car content what the Matrix did to movies. Please don't listen to the haters.

[@thedownwardmachine]

California has three different levels of chain control: R1, R2, and R3. R1 means cars with snow tires (just "M+S", not three peak) carrying chains can pass. R2 means cars with AWD and snow tires (again, M+S is fine) can pass as long as they carry chains, but 2WD cars must actually put on those chains. R3 doesn't matter because they usually close the roads by then. I used to have a Mazdaspeed3 with FWD and the chains would barely clear the wheel wells. They also scratched up the rims, sucked to drive on, and liked to fall off. Because I live in the Bay and need traction for just that trip once or twice a season, it's not worth getting dedicated snow tires and rims and TPMS sensors. Now I have a Model S with AWD riding on PSAS4's and they wave me right through. Traction is good enough in the snow and it rides great the rest of the time. I go up with cheap snow socks that satisfy the CHP but which I don't expect to ever use.

[@stevemartegani]

100% this. I've never seen R3 without the road being closed.

[@unnecessaryusername]

The only correct answer I've seen. Also, most tires you can buy for an SUV will be M+S rated, which just means that snow is less likely to pack into the groves than a performance-oriented tire. It's an incredibly low bar, similar to insisting that drivers have a driver's license.

[@markcoopers1930]

I'm currently a fan of the Honda "Unstoppable Dreams" ad. The old super bowl ad where a bunch of Dodges erupt out of the woods during a revolutionary war battle I don't think I can ever forget (I think I was 13 when it came out so it was the coolest thing ever). There's an ad where a little kid dressed as Darth Vader "uses the force" (parent controlling it with the key fob). But it didn't work because I couldn't tell you which car that is.

[@OdyTypeR]

The Darth Vader kid VW Jetta ad was the *ONE* that always sticks out for me. VW was in top form, from the _unpimp ze auto, ✌️🖖in da haus_ that Jason was talking about, to the talking Beetle: "What's your hybrid sound like?" 🤣 But that Darth Vader kid Superbowl Ad was brilliant. And a cultural touchstone.

[@scottmatthew9605]

Funnily enough the last ad I can remember actually is Jaguar - the one with the various British actors saying that's why we're always villains.

[@stevemartegani]

Ironically, those tires probably came over Donner pass from the Tire Rack warehouse just past Sparks, Nevada :P

[@2BGR808]

@8:50 Derek is correct - 4-wheel drive and "all season" tires to be allowed up the hill. Just in case anyone needs the info. Keep it up guys!.

[@OptimumSlinky]

Lucid is more Jaguar 2.0 than Tesla 2.0, since Elon is so busy trying to remove drivers from cars while Lucid is trying to ensure EVs still have soul.

[@olemissjim]

You need to drive a 2024/25 model 3 performance if you think Tesla is “removing the driver”. Tesla is simply trying to make affordable cars that don’t lose $98,576 a unit(Rivian) or $220,000 a unit (Lucid).

[@OptimumSlinky]

@ I’ve driven it. Tesla’s focus is on self-driving. Removing the stalks, removing the gear shifter, letting the software automatically trigger everything for you. Md3P is still a great car in spite of all of this but Tesla’s end goal is clear.

[@eugenux]

there isn't such thing as an EV with the soul; you want soul, you need internal combustion, over 7000 rpm and a meaningful exhaust..and, most importantly, 3 pedals. the way a chassis feels is second; sure, if you are all about going to the track or having the best set-up(to not be able to use anywhere on the road), chassis is important but no more important than having a good engine and a good gearbox.

[@triaxe-mmb]

43:29 people are out of their minds if they disagree on this one...

[@maxkarp6758]

52:21 Shoutout Jake or whoever was editing because I still watch that Audi ad with regularity because of how awesome it is.

[@scronkfinkle1408]

Holy smokes! Can't wait for your video!

[@TheMazi56]

It’s not a SUV. It’s a high riding large station wagon or minivan.

[@Kalepsis]

The last car ad I remember is the Lexus LFA breaking a wine glass with its engine noise. The problem I have with Jaguar is not the ad campaign, it's the car. I pretty much dislike everything about the Type 00.

[@thomasv1216]

Jason, you've sold me on the Gravity, I just need to find a way to fund it

[@Buuster1999]

As someone who used to work in close affiliation with JLR and still keeps in close touch with some ex-colleagues. They were absolutely deliberate with that campaign (although they are desperate) people on social media think otherwise and immediately jump on the bandwagon like sheep. Am I a fan of it? No. Is it genius? Absolutely but, they REALLY need to follow up with the actual car and it has to be a hit. HOWEVER my main two concerns are: 1. Who's gonna buy this? 2. Why completely disown their life long heritage? Jag is the closest thing to being britain's Porsche (in terms of their racing history) and they have so much to draw from... putting a new spin on it would have been my preferred take but oh well. (Excuse my grammar, I am a not a native english speaker)

[@R3LF13]

I'm thinking about a two car solution for the first time and I'm about 1.5 years from a Lucid. Please keep this up that long.

[@rlaxton666]

You say no compromises in the Lucid vehicles, however there is a super important compromise that you ignore: price. Their price restricts them to niche forever.

[@markcoopers1930]

I mean relative to what it is and what you're getting for the price it's not expensive. The base Lucid Air corresponds roughly in Price, dimensions, and *weight* to a Mercedes E-Class 450 4matic (not factoring in any tax credit). The Mercedes gives you awd. The Lucid air gives you more speed and power and features. In order to option in the power and features into the e-class, you would have to spend a significant amount in options And step up to an AMG version (I'll be at AMG hybrid). You can get the e-class cheaper, but it will be significantly slower, and prices to match the standard features of the Lucid will rise to be pretty comparable. For somebody who wasn't going to be able to afford an e-class in the first place, yes, the point stands. But a lot of the commenters seem to be expecting lucidair performance at Corolla prices, and that's just unrealistic

[@ewadge]

I’ll go one better. The Grand Touring trim starts at about the same price and a decently specced Grand Wagoneer. Yeah! By that metric it is a screaming bargain.

[@olemissjim]

The pricing is excellent, it’s the fact that at $125,000 for the Lucid Gravity, Lucid loses another $200,000-$350,000 No way they can survive like that

[@capnbeenieweenie5603]

This is gotta be the year of the cool minivans.

[@ConnectingODots]

Now we know why you gave that check back to Tesla 😂 JK, great episode, and good to hear it's a great SUV. I want Lucid to succeed. We need great cars.

[@CTP1111]

love the charlie brown christmas tree!

[@Mike-tr6bz]

Loved it.

[@FeLiX13sLaVe]

Pretty sure other states also require chains under certain conditions. Montana, for example.

[@tandybare]

if I hear "mini-van" one more time...anyways, the strut tower brace becomes one of the control arms' ball joints? WHAT!! on air the upper arm consists of a fore and aft link projected axis set up.

[@rjwz28]

Yes, 4wd+3PMSF (chains on board) or 2wd+chains regardless of tire.

[@benhow47]

Dare I say that Jason has become a hardcore EV lover... I think he's just floored by genius engineering. I've test-driven a Lucid Air and a Rivian R1S and was completely, thoroughly impressed. Both are just superior to virtually all ICE cars I've driven, setting aside the charisma and fun of a flawed ICE car. I think should be two sets of cars: great EVs and fun, wild, interesting manual transmission ICE cars. Automatic transmission cars seem dumb compared to EVs at this point.

[@bencausey]

“I don’t typically get personal…” 😂

[@Gunny426HemiPlymouth]

Thanks for the content guys

[@urbanstrencan]

Another great podcast episode😊❤ 34:14 , Lucid Gravity is US version and 2times price of Chinese Li Mega.😂😂 Jason you need to make comparison test video Li Mega vs Lucid Gravity 😉🤟😍

[@kwisin1337]

Jason and Hyphen, I love your opinions. Do I agree with every opinion you have, No. That is the point. I appreciate your opinions. And that is the point. Many thanks to you and your co-workers.!

[@obsidian....]

8:08 4WD or Chains

[@pan4632]

the market doesn't care about expensive heavy EVs which depreciate quickly

[@Mr9teen90nine]

I immediately recall the lexus ad, when they created a hoverboard! It's also kinda dated now but it was mind-blowing

[@THMSKA]

Great doo-doo edit Jake 😅

[@anthonyschroeder521]

I took a lucid drive a few months ago. The rear seats were honestly the worst experience I've had in years with the big battery (way too short), and seriously subpar for the small battery pure. I really wanted to love the car, but also the throttle response was way too stiff except in the highest power mode, but that was still harsh to drive imo.

[@NO3V]

Re: staggered *diameter* tires (41:17): The upcoming Tesla Cybercab has 215/60R18s in the front and 225/60R21s in the rear 😅. (small in the front for a low aerodynamic hood) (they are also a completely new line of autonomous vehicle specific tires from Continental: "aContact")

[@anton_grahn]

At first I thought the Cybercabs wheel layout was just for styling, but it does make sense: High sidewall for comfort, large radius for efficiency, relatively thin. Smaller in the front for steering radius and packaging, larger in the back for better efficiency. Pretty cool!

[@NO3V]

@@anton_grahn Yup. Now let's see how long it takes until others copy larger sidewalls with hubcap-matching paint. 😉

[@robl7532]

Jason I cant wait for the Happy Gilmore sequel!

[@grado1058]

Jason.. I'm in the M family and i love ya! keep doing you!

[@blablah538]

From the Gravity page lolol Safety As Safe as Houses With advanced driver assistance, a plethora of sensors, and adaptive headlights, the Lucid Gravity keeps you as safe as houses, ensuring every journey is smooth and secure.

[@billroshia]

Chain controlled conditions are exempted by 4/awd AND snowflake rated tires.

[@EUC-lid]

That’s California, yes. In Oregon vehicles fitted with “traction tires” don’t need chains on under 10,000lbs (if not towing) regardless of drivetrain. Washington mostly mimics California.

[@billroshia]

@@EUC-lidI’m pretty sure it’s really all the same through the northern Rockies. My previous explanation is how it works in MT, ID, WY, UT. I believe the classification of ‘traction tire’ is met by the winter service rating in OR as well.

[@DaneRThomas]

When I was a ski instructor in California in the 1980s, I was required to have chains in my 4WD vehicle with snow tires, but I was never required to install them. When I lived in Colorado during the 1990s, we used winter tires with FWD, 4WD, and AWD vehicles and neither owned nor used chains. Same thing here in Sweden since 1998, where I've only seen chains on vehicles exploring non-plowed roads, although some commercial vehicles have auto chain deployment thingies (that's the technical term) fitted.

[@arthurs7882]

*gls exists* Jason: iTs aN R cLaSs

[@0o0ification]

I like the episode where these two dudes talk about all the details. Do they also have detailed opinions on user manual contents, arrangement, and/or presentation?

[@griffins750]

Yes they do but they haven’t made an episode on it… yet…

[@TonyBasuro]

Chain laws and closed highway passes are common. Snow tires or chains are required all over the inter-mountain west. The people risking themselves for rescue are sick of the Stupids. They learned a long time ago, what Jason's rookie POV has yet to live through (every winter). Better to wait near a gas station with blankets and hot coco, than in a snowbank with a dead motor.

[@azorglub]

Donner pass is at 7200 and change'. Reno is around 4500'.

[@bananadane]

I've gotten through in four wheel drives and all season tires with decent tread.

[@rijksenm01]

55:38 as response to the sales numbers of Peugeot before leaving the US. From 1986 the sales fell from 14000 to 3500 in 1991. So yeah Jaguar is probably in the same boat and has to do something 😂

[@Buuster1999]

Ahhh.. almost suffered from CM withdrawal

[@WestsideCollectorCarStowage]

I remember people saying that they were suffering from "C.M. withdrawal" after the late, great C.M. Newton retired from his position as athletic director at the University of Kentucky in 2000.

[@cavemankiwi]

Putting on chains slows everyone down to 35mph. I think that is the reason. I was once going up to tahoe in my G35x. They didnt know it was awd. They asked me to spin all tires to prove it was AWD. They also did seem to care about the tires. I did have AS3 tires.

[@IamTheOppressor]

I really wish Lucid was working on something small and interesting like the Rivian R3X rather than another(potentially) SUV after this Gravity launches. If Lucid's stuff drives as nice as everyone claims, surely they are the company who can attack that market segment rather than fighting for scraps in the SUV world.

[@CTP1111]

there are different levels of chain control, 4wd and snow tires you are good to go with no chains, some places all seasons and AWD is ok, but yeah don't fuck around on donner pass, that is no joke

[@flacjacket]

As a Jag owner the problem I have with the Jag ad is that it cast aside the brands heritage which is unquestionably one of the richest in the indistry. Jaguars problem to begin with is that it abandoned its heritage in the mid 2000s. When the X350 replaced the X308 the XJ stopped being a budget bentley and started being a BMW/Merc/Audi competitor and that market was simply saturated already. Worse, all four of these brands now feel disposable in a way they didn't used to (Is anyone going to attempt to lovingly restore an E63 or G32 6 series the way they do an E9 or even E24 30 years from now?), but its particularly offensive for Jag in a way that it isnt so much for the Germans. Jag used to build sedans that were budget bentleys and coupes that were budget Astons. They never should have made a V6, any 6 cylinder jag should have been a straight 6 and there should never have been a four cylinder period. Jag has the cache to slot itself a half step above the germans in price and a giant leap in sophistication. If Jag had followed up not with an ugly modernist design concept (that screams 'copy kia/hyundais homework') but instead with a beautiful XJ prototype aiming at the $150k+ price point then the negative publicity buzz would have turned into brand desirability, but they didnt so it didn't. Fundamentally, as competent as Jags chassis tuning has always been, as nice and luxurious as they have always been, the desirability of Jaguars, its whole brand identity, hinged on one thing and one thing only, beauty. Its what Jag has done better than maybe any other brand in history. Is there any sedan more beautiful than the massively packaging compromized X308? Is there any car that has ever been built more beautiful than a XJ13 or a d type? If Jag wants a revival the path is clear, make cars that are uncompromisingly beautiful, be the brand people buy with the heart not the head. Instead what we got was an ugly ad filled with ugly androgenous people (if the peope in your ads cannot have a definitve obvious identity than how is the brand itself supposed to have one?) and an ugly derivitive concept car. I hope that when the car arrives it makes me eat the words I am about to write along with a chunk of flesh off the back of my hand, but right now it feel like Jag will not live to see 2030.

[@brandonshriver6448]

I don't think they have. They actually had an E-Type on display alongside the 00 concept in Miami. Jaguar's heritage, in the Lyons' era was to be innovative and technologically advanced. The XK engine was one of the first mass produced DOHC engines, Jaguar was among the first to adopt disc brakes, independent rear suspensions, unibody construction, etc. They have made some of the best cars in the world along the way. *IF* they are going that route, with an innovative, excellent driving, very style-heavy car, then they're building on their heritage.

[@GonzoSaavedra]

About the Ad spending not being visible. Is by design, if that number is what I think it is, MOST of those budgets go to events for press, sports sponsorships and social media content creation. Ads today need to feel and seem like content. So they feed you the facts and you talk about them. Maybe not in the way they expected, some times just in terms of the PR stunt achieved. But the air time is gained and the voice share budgeted is achieved. If you stand next to a sticker of a quote you wrote, you are going to talk about it, if the CEO of the company you are visiting makes a funny remark about something happening you have no time to remark about the oil money and Saudi interests behind a car brand. Lucid is an awesome car company, positioned in the car enthusiast niche, that's why you are there, front and center, and not the NBC journalist. That's why they lend it to Jay Leno and the CEO will talk about it with him. And Nobody will pay attention to where that money comes from, why they are doing that, and how irrelevant the complete electric mobility share or the pie is now and will likely be for the future just based on Lithium availability, battery technologies advancement and electricity generation and distribution. You are the Ad, knowingly or not, with all due respect

[@russdavidson8695]

R63 was the favorite car I’ve owned.

[@withintheglass2170]

The stove aka “Travel Kitchen” is still available!

[@bananadane]

I really want to go work from there somehow. Thank you.

[@olneydetail1487]

The great falucy that 4WD and summers are suitable for winter. Any 2WD with winters will run rings around them.

[@flacjacket]

20:37 so what you are saying is it is two sliding doors away from being a better car? As someone with two toddlers with a third on the way who is about to trade in a Cayenne for an Odessey Elite next year I wish there was a luxury option in the minivan market. Having just spent a week with a '22 pacifica the doors are one of the key elements that makes mini vans so much better than SUVs for handling small children. I see no advantage beyond minor cosmetic impact on having conventional doors over sliding doors on a three row vehicle.

[@Matness23]

We live in a wierd time where M Fanboys will hate the G80 and then hate you for being critical and objective as a journalist 😂...please dont stop being you Jason

[@wttwtg4165]

My dream car designed by Lucid? A little bit of the Sterrato/Dakar philosophy (Fire road ground clearance, on street hooliganism, more sidewall, fuck potholes and road imperfections) in a true shooting brake form (not an estate coupe, not a 2+2, 2 seat only think clown shoe). The evolution of the sports car should not be the CUV/elevated hatchback but the true shooting brake. Small, agile, but with space. If I had Saudi money...

[@NoClassic]

The vangina tires likely damaged the floor because they were way too hot from driving in normal conditions after returning to the city.

[@MrGmilton]

You have to have M+S rated tires even with 4wheel drive, plus carry snow chains in California

[@muhann4d]

Another fiery episode! Love it

[@wttwtg4165]

It is interesting to see if Gravity brings to America what the Lexus LM/Toyota Alphard do for Asian markets. An absolute luxury Minivan but with the benefits of an electric powertrain.

[@robt8620]

from the rear the Lucid air looks like a 4 door Alpine A110

[@gt_grandtouring]

I believe there is but ONE good looking Minivan. The second generation Honda Odyssey

[@randorandom]

Derek's pronunciation of "ambiguous"... wow, just wow

[@jayjohnson3732]

Sigh. Many people just suck Jason. I do believe that the truly aggressive and vocal assholes online are in the real world the minority. The vast majority of people (who truly appreciate what you do) are not as predisposed to read the comments, or to write a comment. Please don’t stop. Your work is truly respected.

[@vercingetorige400]

a jason entry on the tam-scott dictionary? wow where we're going to end up

[@P.Galore]

The first 13 minutes is all inspiration if you write country music songs

[@bencausey]

…so nuts he ends up with even more authority and influence. Yeah…he’s nuts alright. 😊

[@ShaunRF]

I have a different take on the Jaguar marketing debacle. It feels very much like the Steve Buscemi "how do you do, fellow kids" meme. To me, it reeks of desperation. It would be one thing if they stuck the landing with the vehicle design, but it doesn't seem like they did that IMHO. Time will tell.

[@NO3V]

Question: Would it be appropriate or even necessary for journalists to mention that Lucid's offerings are so incredibly and unprecedentedly (!) unprofitable that all positive attributes of the car are actually kind of unimpressive - not to mention the danger to the potential customer of ending up with an unserviceable car - Fisker-style.

[@Petrospect]

I mean it should if you have a conscience to dissuade people from getting a car when the brand is underwater so they don’t end up holding the turd and lose 70k on it like Fisker customers did. Right now, that’s kind of in hindsight though… Maybe it ought to be a proviso or a counterpoint? I’m sure I would get a retort about it not being their responsibility but it kind of should be if you’re going to make a recommendation for a car. I will concede though, it is a crystal ball thing we cannot know for sure. Lucid is burning through TONS of Saudi money. To be fair though, the fact that a company could go underwater hasn’t been a thing in a very long time regularly in the automotive world!

[@NO3V]

@@Petrospect Agree. I wouldn't be surprised to hear journalists (and especially influencers) say that this isn't their topic and that they don't or shouldn't care - but hey, making an 80k car _good_ isn't that hard if you can (somehow) (for now) afford to make it for 200+k (even before admin, R&D or sales cost !!).

[@williamgechtman9287]

@@Petrospect which of the major auto companies hasn't toyed with bankruptcy at some point, some declaring it, and some avoiding it only due to government action? Both in the US and internationally? I don't believe there are many.

[@NO3V]

@@williamgechtman9287 yeah... many got close. Lucid's financials though - even just the gross margin - are far worse than anything else you could find - try it. The moment MBS went back to dismembering and stopped injecting new cash they would be gone.

[@redlion145]

@@williamgechtman9287 Pretty sure the US taxpayer actually made a profit off of at least one of the auto bailouts of 2007-2009. GM and Chrysler each got two bailouts, and they paid the Treasury back within 5 years. Better than anyone can say about Fisker, but I'm not sure why that's the example OP used. Fisker never sold more than 10k cars in a year, Lucid did that last year and their cars can cost 2x-3x as much as a Fisker. Who cares if the company is unprofitable? They're financially backed by the Saudis, they've got the engineers that left Tesla; they've got all the advantages that Fisker never had, and they don't have a tainted brand that's declared bankruptcy multiple times. I don't work for or own a Lucid BTW, I just think the way OP was phrased is pretty suspect. Lacking all context.

[@Mealsandwheels]

A lot of performance cars stagger diameter. I'm surprised the 911 aficionado doesn't remember.

[@iamsuperflush]

@28:00 shows the pitfalls of an engineering-driven company. Even with a design team headed up by Derek Jenkins and Jenny Ha, who I'm sure advocated for better solutions to these problems, they still fell victim to a bit of function (and probably cost) over acceptability and qualitative sophistication.

[@erics3596]

Colorado has the same traction laws - and they fine people if they cause a accident if they don't comply with the law.

[@MoreOnEVs]

Seems like a really cool vehicle. Hopefully they can get to profitability and keep pushing the boundaries I think the vehicle that the market needs is a small electric pickup. I hope Ford can pull it off soon

[@altosack]

Telo

[@urgetodrive]

Best handling SUV (or, let's be honest, minivan) and track testing is not a feature-set that car buyers of this category care about. Starting at over $100k, I don't see how these will sell .... at all.

[@TheMazi56]

It’s not shorter than the R1S

[@brandonchism6960]

Maybe I should have written about this when I watched the M3/Model 3 vid before, but I assumed most people who own/have owned G80s received that vid the way I did. After listening to Carmudgeon this morning 12/11/24, apparently not. While I LOVED my G80 and put nearly 75k miles on it during my ownership, it was not without fault. Chiefly for me was the piped-in engine noise and quiet nature of the car. I addressed those issues with exhaust mods and coding, but they were still issues and I’m not sure why Jason would come under fire for calling it out. It’s not a coincidence that exhaust modifications are the most popular for that platform… it’s too damn quiet. Couple that with price of a new X-drive variant, and it becomes easy to see why it lost the comparison. Jason, please keep doing what you’re doing. Those of us who can still appreciate differing opinions usually love when someone disagrees and has the homework/data to back it up.

[@vickykennel7414]

Lucid makes the best cars ….period!

[@BMWVX]

I’m a big BMW (and V10) fan, as you can figure out by my username, and I couldn’t agree with you more, Jason. There’s a reason Mr. Chapman had as his nr.1 priority lightness and not more power. It has a big impact on car dynamics. So yes, I’ll pass on the Beaver M3 and on the Whale M5. They don’t resonate with me. The manual V10 M6, on the other hand… best Overall BMW, in my eyes. Maybe the Z8 is a bit better, but at a much higher price point.

[@M67v]

Jason is right about the R-Class and Derek is wrong. No R-Class slander will be tolerated.

[@antonycatulo7707]

Is that a caravan in the background?!! Why or lord

[@matchsticks4]

Didn't love how Jason inadvertently went with Elon's infamous "go eff yourself" response to the M3 vs. Tesla hate there 😬😬 I'm sure no Bimmer Boys will misconstrue that 🙄🙄

[@ecoriderLNT]

Driving I-80, you only briefly venture into the mile high club, a land where Subarus dominate the roadways. It's the upside-down world.

[@SethDavis96]

Ordered a set of Vredestein Wintrac Pro XL for my Focus RS. Hoping I’ll actually be able to out them to use this winter