Developing Hybrid Art Styles… Is Risky Business!

[@TheDrawingCodex]

This is part of a series of videos where I talk about whether some Art Styles are better than others. This one focuses on my personal journey and what I found with my own work. If you want to check out the previous video which talks about this idea more broadly you can find the link in the description!

[@TheLobstersoup]

I wanted to become a concept artist and during a voip chat with another, more experienced, artist he said I have to get rid of the outlines or draw comics. Years later I realized I wanted to draw comics all along. It took me very long to understand that not every panel will be perfect. The beauty of drawing a comic is you have a story and you just have to move on. And moving on has been the best practice for me. If you want to check if out, the webtoon is called Sycophant. I really like watching these videos, because I'm often thinking about the same things.

[@dwintster]

​@TheLobstersoup that's awesome, though it's odd he said that because line drawings are literally the most economical way to design in general. Quickly get ideas down, make iterations, orthographic views, poses and expression in line. From my experience in product design also what I have heard character designers say. Rendering takes so it's rarely the focus. The job of a concept artist is to produce as many ideas as possible for a story in the shortest amount of time.

[@TheDrawingCodex]

@@TheLobstersoup Yeah it's interesting because as @dwintster said linework is one of the best design tools. There are a lot of top level designers who use line as a major part of their daily job as a concept artist. I do think that the skills you build with linework as a concept artist are a bit different though. Comics really has a focus on creating beautiful emotive finished lines, and the style you have can often make up for a lack of foundation. In Concept Design the lines are less polished but are still used to help show form and quickly describe a design. There has been a huge focus on keyframe illustration in Concept Art/Design, where artists do moody illustrations to explore settings, or spend a lot of time creating a polished illustration to help pitch a game or level externally and internally at a studio. The polished illustrations and keyframe/look development are much smaller parts of the overall process though, and are a very specific job.

[@micahinglish2896]

I absolutely love the painty, sketchy, goblins page!! I'm surprised that so many people shut it down, I think it looks really awesome and is totally readable

[@AlexLusth]

For the record, I absolutely love your mixed style.

[@jakeparker44]

Great thoughts Tim! Thanks for making these videos. I call this Multitool Problem. When Tim Leatherman came up with the idea of a multitool and made a prototype in his garage he thought (and rightly so) that everyone would want to carry one of these with them. He took his invention to the pocket knife companies who were uninterested, saying it's clearly a tool and advised him to take it to the tool companies. The tool companies had a similar response: this isn't a tool, it's a pocket knife. Their customers aren't interested in pocket knives. Apparently he went back and forth between companies like this until he finally deicded to manufacture and sell them himself. A hunting and fishing retailer took a chance on them and ordered 500 units...the rest is history, and now there's an entire multitool industry. If your style neatly fits in one box, you're an easy hire for an art director looking to get a project done. If you have a "multi-style" most art directors aren't sure what to use you for. The animation studios say you should do comics, and the comics publishers say you should do concept art. As a multi-style artist myself I've had trouble not just getting work consistently, but then getting bored when having to live in one style for too long. Which is why I've just leaned so heavily on self publishing and starting my own online art school. Seems like the multi-stylists are uniquely positioned to teach the craft to a spectrum of different students.

[@TheDrawingCodex]

Hey Jake! Yeah that is a great way of putting it. I think you have a talent for creative metaphors :) I think ultimately the answer for me was to do my own thing a long time ago. If you build it and create an audience it opens all the doors anyway. I think you are doing a good job of showing what is possible with self publishing and creating your own product. I have a bunch of videos planned around this idea as well. I think there are a lot of opportunities for artists around right now that are not properly understood.

[@gabrielzquinn]

What you mentioned early on in this video about being pulled in many directions by the needs of different industries is a really important point to get clear about. So often it can feel like you are failing at 99 things even if you're succeeding at one thing. It's possibly a symptom of the internet, or the new discourse artists are able to have about this stuff online. All of these new voices in one's head that can lead to growth but could also cause paralysis are definitely a big challenge new artists face these days. None the less, improving your skills in any area will always teach you something you'll use down the line. Learning to render may teach you that for your current project all you need are the hi-lights, but now you're very good at placing them correctly to create the right amount of drama, even if you're not fully rendering everything out. Great video, great takes, please carry on with this series!

[@Nevarek_]

Knowing your audience is great advice. It comes up in all kinds of industries, and can be a harsh lesson. I love trying all kinds of styles. But at the end of the day, if one is making art for others: it's for them, not yourself.

[@charlysteiger]

If your mistakes took you to where you are today, I would be glad of making them...

[@skullforge986]

you make a really great point of trying to push your style with the against publisher feedback and trying to 'prove' it, it's a really difficult headspace to be in, lots of mental in fighting put up against ego and deadlines

[@Troygdesign]

Incredible Analysis and discussion, I can’t stress enough how illuminating specific things you said were. I’m really glad I gave this one a listen.

[@denicandra9782]

I'm sorry I don't think I listened to all your word carefully even though you've said many things...I was distracted and stunned by your Goblin pages art style. That one is awesome 😆

[@mrssirens]

This is definitely something I needed to hear more, ive definitely struggled with what and how I want my work to serve me in terms of career arc.

[@Ostekk_Party]

I love all the rexflexions you are having and sharing here. They make a lot of sense to me as I am kind of an overthinker. Thanks a lot for sharing

[@TheDrawingCodex]

I appreciate that! It's a journey to figure out these things.

[@Cosmoscosmoscosmos]

The video I really need right now. Thanks Tim!😀

[@Buddhabellie]

I think I'm glad I'm not trying to be a professional. Sounds impossible. I have been doing some of your panels I. Pinocchio. Just pencil sketches for my sketchbook. I love what I am learning from you. Thank you. I'm on the fight scene like page 5 or 6. My first fight scene. I managed to work through it and it turned out alright....

[@arie_l6380]

It was really helpful thanks. And I love your art style

[@ArtOfWesGardner]

Outstanding topic (as usual!), and couldn't come at a better time! Thanks for all you do, Tim!

[@Amelia_PC]

I think I’m in the same boat as you… sort of. I have almost 20 years of experience in comics (but in my case, it’s only in comics-I don’t do concept art, even though I’m a digital painter, and I do some comic covers). But I’m pretty tired of the gatekeepers. Honestly, if they knew what they were doing, they’d be swimming in money, which is clearly not the case in the comics industry. So, I’m going to take my projects to Kickstarter and test my own ideas. The audience’s response will be my results, and from there, I’ll improve and build on it. Even if I starts with 5 readers buying my stuff, it'll be enough data to expand. I’m done outsourcing my decisions… and my future. And if I fail, I’ll have only myself to blame. But if I succeed, well, you know… (Yep, I’m into a hybrid art style, but I keep the characters simple in the final art and colors, while making the backgrounds a bit more painted-kind of like what you see in animations. I found a client who supported me for years to develop this art style. I do other art style for others, but this specific publisher client allowed me to develop something different... and paid for it. I'm lucky.)

[@Ccs1989]

I want to read the Goblins comic. It reminds me of a film like Klaus, where they combined volumetric lighting with line drawn outlines. Perhaps consider a Kickstarter down the road?

[@LaceeJShaw]

Thank you for this video. This concept is something I've struggled with for a long time. But also, I LOVE the style of the goblin page! Dude, I cannot believe no one bought it! About 14 years ago when I was trying to figure out career direction, I was looking into comics and I would go to stores and pick out cool covers and buy them. Once I got them home and opened them, I felt totally betrayed by the art inside. It was not at all what I was sold on with the cover, and it legit ruined the experience for me. It was so frustrating. I was always looking for things like your goblin comic! :( Someone here mentioned it reminded them of Klaus, which I totally agree with. I think another break-out film that "looked like the concept art" is the Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse movies. Those both looked more like concept art (and hadn't been scrubbed of personality) and they were huge hits!

[@nimroddormin9844]

Thanks for making a video about my number one problem. I see myself at the exact same point, torn between more rendered painterly styles and simpler cartoony line art. Merging them is really difficult, especially the "get faster" part. And it's a shame that the industries are so narrow-minded.

[@The_WanderArt]

Thank you, Tim. This video really helped. More than you'll ever know.

[@whimsylore]

I actively look for painterly/hybrid style comics to read on the shelves...is this why we don't find many? Because they're difficult to print? :( But fully rendered art books exist.. 😢

[@petercohen1745]

In the video I heard Tim mention that his experience with concept art early on was very rendered depictions of ideas. Something I've learned on my journey with concept art is that most of the job entails very little rendering and mostly designing through drawing many iterations. So seeing a rendered piece of concept art gives the false impression that's what concept artists do, when in reality they mostly make relatively quick drawings or paintings. I guess it depends on the job if there's an expectation to render. Anyone have professional experience/opinions on this?

[@TheDrawingCodex]

I'm probably thinking of the term rendering as something related to showing form and showing off the design. For example even though a lot of the sketches in the Star Wars EP1 art book are rough, they are very form based. So the skill involved is in showing everything, rendering all the details. But not necessarily polishing them. This would be opposed to telling a story where we often don't show aspects of the drawing to increase emotion. Or with painting, we hide edges and aspects of the design in shadow. There are for sure aspects of concept design where the focus is on ideas and mood. But I found that if I couldn't actually define what I was designing with enough detail (not polish, just detail) I would not get employed. And it was only once I developed the ability to render out the specifics and show it from different angles that my concept art career took off. You could contrast this with comics or illustration where people can go their entire career without really creating drawings that describe form. Illustrators can exist almost entirely on emotion and choosing what to show and when. A Concept Artist must show the design they are creating and make it clear for people in the production chain. Yet despite this Concept Artists can go their entire career without really polishing anything to the level of a finished Illustration. Whereas in Illustration or Comics... the level of polish and finish on the page is critical. Plenty of artists develop the ability the do all of these things. But early on it can be a challenge. That's my take on it anyway. But I'd be keen to hear what other people have to say.

[@TheDrawingCodex]

Again, there are so many exceptions to these distinctions, but it's a good place to start when considering the differences between industries. For instance I know a lot of concept art can be about bringing up unpolished level design to a high level of detail via paint over... so the level designers can go in and have a guide for the last 10% of detail. But this type of keyframe concept art tends to be less common.

[@petercohen1745]

@@TheDrawingCodex Informative perspective, thank you for the response, your content helps a lot, thanks! I appreciate how you use design thinking to inform your illustrations, very inspiring. Something I've started to do that's made character designs more fun and interesting for myself is to start with abstract shapes that come from a more emotional dynamic place and then slowly chip away at it to bring in form and function. A goal of mine is to learn how to chip away just enough to retain the original feel of the abstract shapes while still clearly communicating something. I really enjoy seeing how artists handle that sort of thing.

[@D1570R73D]

Imo, if you're worried about art style, you've already lost. Kinda like how a guitarist needs to be in the moment, not worried about catering to a specific genre.

[@Original_Blagsta]

Would you say that if you're going for a hybrid style for a comic or illustrated novel, you'd probably be better off going down the self-published route? Or maybe put out a few pages or a prologue of what it is you want to do to see if it can get any traction?

[@strangely_amelien]

I've been having this struggle where I'm trying to find a job of any studio or client that needs a concept artist or needs an illustrator. I just want to be able to problem solve and give ideas and communicate with a team. I'm a bit naïve when it comes to trying to get myself into the industry. I see so many artist somehow get these jobs, but I don't know where you would even find clients like that. I also don't understand much about what makes someone a junior or senior artist, and I'm not entirely sure if a title matters. Do you have any advice in that area? I'm also not certain whether I should attend a university or not, would it help guide me into getting a job? I'm very lost on which direction to go at the moment. And thank you for uploading so many helpful videos! I enjoy listening to them while I work on my own comic, you've helped me develop a style I really love, as well as given me the motivation to keep going in my art journey.

[@khaitran-ri1fc]

always inspiration!!

[@dakotagarcia997]

Really good stuff. I started working at a prestigeious fine art collectibles company and I found me questioning my skillset because being surrounded by genuine sculptors made me realize I WASNT a sculptor, I was a designer with a sculpting skillset. suggestion for a future topic. "what you could do with your art" would be cool. Been noticing A LOT of very skilled digital artist developing their own IP's and projects without any "end goal". Is this a waste of time? is it a sudo portfolio? Is this the true end game for commerical artist? is this an effect of the current times and social media climate?

[@SKnight360]

Hi Tim, very helpful video. It was interesting to hear about how your fully painted comic was rejected. Is there really no interest for painted comics in the industry? The obvious examples I can think of is Alex Ross, but he seems to be an exception. I'm planning to work on my own traditionally painted comic, and its hard weighing up industry standards versus what I enjoy as an artist.

[@dwintster]

Its interesting because I was told by a few Character Designers that its more important to have good line Drawings. I guess experiences will differ from studio to studio.

[@dwintster]

I guess it's kind of like David Kwan used to sculpt his designs in clay rather than draw them because it was faster for him and he was the head designer at Umbra (they design high end household products.) Bobby Chui paints his designs.

[@dmrfunkster]

Gotta have more than one style. The ability to know what a client is looking for is totally up to the client. Vesatility is key unless, in Mignola's case, who delveloped a unique style ( self proclaimedly influenced by Kirby and Frazzetta.) that was specifically sought after. It's not who you know. It's who knows you.

[@charlysteiger]

I have a kind of "the egg or the hen" question....in the past I worked as an editorial illustrator (humor magazines and politics caricature for newspapers), they I jumped out of the boat....now I would like to get into comics (I kept illustrating all this years but just for pleasure and commissions) sooooo, finally the question: which is a more realistic path....first doing you own comic to get attention from the comic industry or getting an "entry level" job working for a comic publisher and then creating you own? in the case of the second one....Do you have any training course on "how to create a portfolio to apply"? by the way, as you know, I'm already creating my first comic book, both writing and illustrating.

[@aanler]

You had a friend who was japanese in high-school? 😂 Sorry, I'm just a language nerd that find stuff like this fun. Obviously I know what you meant. I just love it! 😊

[@niefali]

Yea, you have to know what you are working for. I love Mike Mignolaz graphic art style, but that would be completely useless to me if I am working for board games or concept art.

[@metalassassin8841]

Tell me about it...Talking of the title ofc 😄

[@WAHDERHONMoe]