Flip Monsters - Failed Cards & Mechanics

[@magiccardmaster9921]

Flip monsters didn't fail. The mechanic was simply powercrept to death now

[@bernarduswyattgianci7533]

Yeah Shaddoll, krawler, subteror are good flip monster

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

You say as if there is a distinction.

[@Felnal]

@@youtubeuniversity3638 There is a distinction. Failure implies they were bad right from the get-go.

[@Subarashii_Nem]

​​@@Felnal But it doesn't tho.. They still failed when they ended up useless and never used. When your car breaks down because of a faulty engine, you say the engine failed. The engine didn't start off broken and faulty, it got that way over time but it still failed in the end. They are still a failed mechanic in this case. They may have started off good but because of power creep and the changes to the game, they are basically useless now, thus they are a failed mechanic in the game.

[@Eibarwoman]

I'd also say given the Jars that the line between good but too clunky and too powerful is very thin. Powerful flip effects that aren't too powerful like the Shaddolls or Guru are rather hard to make as if you had a deck with 3 of both Cyber and Morphing, you'd have something that could probably mill an opponent to death too consistently. The limits are specifically to keep a deck off meta as to not annoy people to death as mill is well... yeah, very annoying. Edit: Emphasis on consistently.

[@justinjones7411]

You should talk about Fusion during the early years of the game because Fusion summoning used to be really bad early on in the game.

[@burnum]

Well, it was an experimental phase, like how each of the other alternate summon methods were experiments at first.

[@TheTundraTerror]

Honestly, Fusion is still pretty bad, if we're being real. You're dumping 2 creatures and a spell into a single summon. There's a reason Instant Fusion is Limited. EDIT: I should clarify that I am talking about the mechanic of fusion. Yes, this are busted fusion monsters. No, the fact that they are regularly cheated out doesn't save the mechanic. The fact that they had to print Branded Fusion shows me that that the original mechanic is garbage to the point that they have to allow you to use creatures from your deck to fusion summon.

[@justinjones7411]

Wasn't really until Thousand Eyes Restrict when Fusion Monsters started becoming more powerful.

[@blackswelproductions3876]

​@@TheTundraTerror no they are not

[@Weeniewarrior15]

@@TheTundraTerror branded despia, tearlament and other fusion focused archetype dominated the meta recently. I think the traditional fusion deck do suck but those that have fusion cards that allow to fuse from the deck makes it very viable and very powerful depending on the boss cards.

[@bookrook1047]

I think this is a great example of a powerful tool that became weak - I would love a video about cards and/or mechanics that had the biggest increase in power over time!

[@RashFaustinho]

Want a textbook example? Rituals. Pre Gishki archetype (which was around Zexal era) Konami had no idea on what to do with this summoning mechanic, and it was almost completely useless. After Gishki managed to set some standards, actual decent Ritual Cards started getting printed, and the mechanic as a whole saw a resurgence, even hitting tier 0 once (Nekroz)

[@Mt.Berry-o7]

Fusion and ritual summoning come to mind

[@zoaero]

Fusion 😅

[@santasangre996]

@@RashFaustinho the mechanic itself didnt really get more powerful though, it just has some actual meta decks now. If anything rituals got less desirable over time because you'd rather summon powerful monsters off your extra deck so ritual decks have to be overly busted to compensate e.g. nekroz

[@heavenbot]

​@@santasangre996 You hit the nail on the head with that one! I often think about whether Drytron or Nekroz would have ever even been considered for print if it weren't for the sad lack of playable ritual archetypes. After seeing the cult following of Gishki (and then Megalith), I assume they had no choice but to pander, but it's still fun to think about!

[@misteris2385]

Another cool thing about flip monsters is the ability to bluff or scare your opponent to buy a turn. However the modern yugioh is now about using your whole deck in a single turn.

[@TransparentlyDuplicitous]

I'd like to see Flip monsters that get Waking the Dragon-type effects where you're heavily punished if you remove them while they're face-down, so they're only "vulnerable" while face-up. It'd be another way to do the Danger theme where the monsters hide themselves, and you have to make them reveal themselves to "capture" them.

[@christopherfeatherley]

That would be such a cool archetype to see, if that ever does come to fruition 😁 great idea!

[@Kuubudaraa]

Could be like a cycle of trap-door spiders that 'pounce' you if you disturb their set-face-down 'burrows'

[@Sillimant_]

krawlers

[@TransparentlyDuplicitous]

@@Sillimant_ I want the opposite of Krawlers. Krawlers special summon when removed while face-up.

[@TransparentlyDuplicitous]

@@Kuubudaraa That's a great theme for it. It'd be fun if they also synergized with Traptrix. That way, the deck could have some disruption before the opponent sets up a board of negates since, as is, this is very weak to negates. I just love the idea of setting 5 and passing being remotely viable nowadays.

[@LeanXTriforcer]

I played the game really heavily in the early days and Flip monsters were absolutely amazing back then. To the point you needed cards like Crossout and Sasuke Samurai to deal with them. One video I would like to see is the evolution of Field Control. Back in the day it was cards like Ground Collapse, Gravekeepers Servant and Gravity Bind.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Ah, Penguin Soldier, my love.

[@smb-c3po]

We were limited of what cards we had available at the time.

[@mangckyatmamon]

Ahhh Gravity Bind. Combined with my A Legendary Ocean and other 4 star Water monsters and Star Boy, brings me so much joy. It's a shit deck but it's MY shit deck that goes toe to toe with recess duelers.

[@Hyuduro]

I used to have a Deck in 7 Trials to Glory to farm DP with the Ring of Magnetism glitch with Des Imp (the flip effect monster that brings cards from the Graveyard) with Reload and Monster Recovery. I also had a monster that let's you send a Monster back to your hand or look at the top card of your opponents deck. I used it with Tea and essentially could have the Battle go indefinitely with Robbin' Goblin for the Spell card (a sword spell card that can't be destroyed or sent to the Graveyard).

[@BF1_enthusiast]

Out of the solutions you've suggested, the last one was the best imo. The first was also really good. They can also start focusing their "Power creeping budget" on FLIP monsters themselves. For example, newly printed FLIP monsters can have one or more of the following effects: 1) When this set monster is destroyed by a card effect, activate it's FLIP effect. 2) This monster's FLIP effect activation and resolution cannot be negated. 3) Neither player can respond to this monster's FLIP effect activation. 4) If this card leaves the field without activating and resolving its FLIP effect: etc... *Insert more examples here* Ideas for generic FLIP support cards, they could have the following effects: 1) If you control a set monster, *insert strong effect* 2) This turn, you can special summon monsters in face-down defense position instead of face-up defense position. 3) While this card is face up on the field, your opponent cannot target set monsters you control with card effects. 4) Target 1 set monster you control: Pay half your life points, then flip that monster face up. You can only activate this effect of blah blah once per turn. 5) Add one spell/trap card from your deck to your hand that mentions the word FLIP in its text. (Cuz you need support for the generic support) *insert more generic support ideas that I won't be thinkin about for more than 10 minutes that's for sure*

[@TheFloodFourm]

If you can put any of that on a card with a font higher then 3 then I’ll agree with you.

[@sharkplay1261]

Or they could just change the mechanic of flip monsters to act similarly to counter traps allowing them to flip on your opponents turn

[@lordpaulphilippfernandez9904]

It would still be useless since you can at most only have 1 set monster. Special summons are only in face-up attack or defense position, which basically makes FLIP monsters useless. What flip monsters really need is a way to have more of them in the field, by making their effects stronger, your idea, and better if a combination of both. That way, they are still relevant.

[@BF1_enthusiast]

@@lordpaulphilippfernandez9904 I actually said that in my comment as one of the generic support effects xD

[@Riptor25]

Honestly allowing flip effects the ability to chain on either players turn would at least make them kinda playable. As it stands, flip effects are tied to either activating on a flip summon (which is worse than Geminis), or are battle effects (which haven't been relevant in a long while either). If they could be chained to anything, and if that flip was treated as a Flip Summon, they could at least have a presence that people would need to consider spending resources on. I wouldn't say they'd be a total counter to hand traps, but you could probably bait out a few hand traps with flip monsters.

[@Chaosian]

Still a big fan of Ghostricks. You still can't really use them if the opponent is using Link monsters, but it's incredibly fun to struggle back and forth for control with your opponent using them. Protecting your monsters from being attacked when they're face down, flipping their monsters down and preventing them from being flipped up, and just ignoring their cards completely and doing direct damage. It's an appropriately mischievous deck for the archetype.

[@Realdeal958]

So much fun especially when you get that win off after struggling to get past their monsters. I feel like you have to plan a few steps ahead and that's why I like them so much. The fact that they aren't very strong monsters stat wise gives off the vibe that you need to use everything you got to win. Such a great feeling when you get them to go off.

[@Noobie2k7]

It's partly why I honestly believe Link summoning is by far the worst mechanic Konami have ever introduced and it directly contributed heavily to the overall decline in the quality and fun of the game. The fact they had to completely revert major changes they made to the rules of the game after they changed them to force Link summoning says a lot. Now it's too late to ever do anything about it, since they can never get rid of link summoning.

[@orangegalen]

Sarcastically: Haven’t you heard? You’re not supposed to struggle back and forth. Either you shut down your opponent on turn one, or disrupt them badly enough on their first turn with handtraps that you can then shut them down on turn two. But I feel you, it’s so much more satisfying of a game if there’s that back and forth, competing your strategies and adapting to the game state.

[@infinityfactorial]

I just love how Recurring Nightmare allows Ghostrick to just keep grinding many, many turns after it "should" run out of resources. Lantern/Specter for days!

[@Wolf_Nations]

I also like to play a ghostrick deck just for the fun of it, granted i also play a version to turbo Utopic Draco Future if needed but just dealing with the shenanigans of field controlling is really funny.

[@TheTruestZero]

Ah yes... Flip Monsters, or how my friend used to call them: Trap Cards with stats.

[@jofx4051]

Hmmm

[@johndexterzarate6663]

....Eldlich: Oh really?

[@kauanjos3199]

Trap monsters with extra steps

[@Deathmare235]

@@kauanjos3199 hell just call them trap monsters at that point

[@aznpikachu215]

Is it fair to call these Flip monsters failed? They were good 15 years ago, they've just fallen out of favor.

[@goncaloferreira6429]

better say that the game evolved to a point where one of its defining features is no more.

[@Hyuduro]

I used to have a Sangan with me on the field for this reason. Edit: Responded to the wrong comment, smh.

[@R055LE.1]

Good.. Ish. Really just a few like Ryko

[@shameronstar7220]

New legacy support that takes advantage of them being flip effects seems overdue.

[@d-_-b8558]

Not at all. I agree, Flip Monsters were very good in the past. Hardly a "failed" mechanic. More like a "powercrept" mechanic.

[@MafiaCow01]

The dread I felt back in the day when attacking a set monster and it turned out to be Man Eater Bug...

[@sharkplay1261]

Ah the good old days of me and my man eater I still run a flip deck in master duel it works every now and then

[@Hyuduro]

Which is why I've always had a Sangan or Witch of the Dark Forest with me on the field.

[@chrisshorten4406]

If they changed it so that Flip effects also activated if the monster was destroyed by card effect, that would probably fix them.

[@mairain6443]

The only way to fix flip monsters would be to make FLIP (i.e Pyro/FLIP/effect) mean you can flip them up any time on your op's turn. Basically making them pseudo trap cards for the main monster zones. Maybe making them counter trap speed, so only other FLIP or counter traps can stop their effects popping off.

[@nacl4988]

Subterrors *Fixed* them without making the monsters flip themself... Then again they have a reusable Trap which does it for them.

[@mairain6443]

@@nacl4988 I know, subterror and Krawler have trap cards make them work, but you need those cards, if FLIP just flips them up when you want them it can make them better but have the use for the traps on the turn they are set. I know both aren't actually FLIP arch types but i think you get my point. I would allow easier interruptions without relaying on the traps for that purpose

[@brianaguilar8283]

That would be too broken with cards like Morphing Jar

[@mairain6443]

@@brianaguilar8283 Some cards might be broken but you can always Ban the busted ones. But what else really breaks it? Penguin solider? Ninja? nothing really breaks it but just makes them viable and means T-set pass, could mean they bricked or they are playing a FLIP card making you think out your plays more.

[@zoaero]

​​@@brianaguilar8283 but still if they really make it it gonna change meta a lot and fix flip mechanic

[@robertwhite9889]

You can also use Lord of the heavenly prison to give flip monster protection from destruction from card effects, because his effect protects all set cards not just set spells/traps. Not that this makes flip monsters any better just something to point out.

[@jvsonic2468]

Ah you've done well with reading cards my good sir.

[@otterfire4712]

Master rule 6, Flip Monsters can spell speed 2 (quick effect) flip themselves into face up attack position. Their flip effect will trigger after the present chain resolves. So for example, you have Penguin Soldier set and your opponent starts their turn with Raigeki, you chain flip Penguin Soldier to attack mode, chain resolves and Penguin Soldier is destroyed. Afterwards, Penguin Soldier's flip effect triggers and bounces up to 2 monsters (there were no monsters so effect basically fails).

[@brianaguilar8283]

Flip monsters are supposed to function similar to trap cards, they punish the opponent for letting their guard down

[@Hin1994]

Only problem with that is there is no other card, besides a brick that you would set in the main monster zone so it's not hard to play around

[@qhillis]

Yeah 15 years ago. This is modern Yugioh where letting your opponent do whatever they want on their turn just to attack into your flip monster which can easily get its effects negated will lose you a duel. Even trap cards, which can interrupt your opponent’s plays whenever, heavily struggle to keep up.

[@ItsPForPea]

Yeah, a trap that takes your normal summon. Doesn't sound that good does it.

[@brianaguilar8283]

@@qhillis yeah, and modern yugioh is a complete mess of a game now with millions of negates and handtraps being the deciding factor on who wins a duel. Oh you didn’t draw your Nibiru? Just sit and watch the opponent special summon hundreds of times and set up hundreds of negate in what is basically a one-sided game

[@CErra310]

@@brianaguilar8283 yugiboomers are not welcome in human society

[@sreeakhilpulipaka3976]

I think Flip monsters should go the route of Nekroz. An archtype of flip monsters that all say “Quick effect: During your opponent’s turn, you can reveal this card in your hand, flip one monster you control to face up defense position” would make it so you can trigger the flip effects of your own cards any time you want, drastically speeding up the mechanic, while also still requiring that the card be set on your own turn to keep the spirit of the mechanic

[@misfire33]

Great idea tbh!

[@madiqhertz7228]

I really liked clown control deck back in the days, even if it wasn't that strong, effects that are activated when monsters changed their battle positions were interesting.

[@CasualDeer]

I think a fun series that definitely has some longevity would be failed archetypes. Discuss what's inherently wrong with the archetype at the time of release and at the time the most recent support was provided, and provide suggestions on what card(s) would be needed to make the archetype better

[@TWLSpark]

Legacy of the worthless' spiritual successor?

[@thegameplayer125]

it's always interesting seeing vids like these showing how a mechanic is bad not because it is actually bad but because it is archaic and obsolete. it really is interesting seeing how much change can make something that was 1ce dominant become just an old unusable relic

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

We need more slow cards that punish the opponent in some way for screwing you out of getting to use them. Make cards that'll near always do something, maybe even more for being outed than used, as a try at counterbalancing being slow. Surrender speed and in exchange gain certianty.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

​@@alecoppeac And might we be able to apply "trade speed for certainty" to more than only Flip Monsters?

[@ShyRanger]

What's interesting about this is, the main reason being they failed "Because the game is faster," a lot of people still argue that's the game's fault and dislike that aspect more than the cards being slower.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

Yeah, a lot of us miss turn 3.

[@LunarSoul255]

@@youtubeuniversity3638 Wait, you can *play* this game? I thought it was just "your opponent plays a whole bunch of monsters all at once, says 'screw game balance, I have special summons!', then you scoop".

[@TFenton95]

TBH they can't be called failed in any sense, they have fallen out of favor but if a card type dominates in it's own time should be called a successful card type, kinda weird to call it failed (Edit: FYI if every card type is failed unless it is meta right now then most are failed and qualifying the flip decks that do use it [subterrors and shaddolls] as not relying on it is disingenuous because you can take out most types of cards that way, it just feels clickbaity way more than usual when you could just call it Flip Monsters Rise and Fall - Cards and Mechanics)

[@thomasfleming8131]

Yeah, I get what he's talking about, but listing it under the "failed mechancis" header is misleading at best.

[@Rurike]

I would say the question is whether those decks succeeded in part because of that mechanic or if the arctype was just strong in spite of it. With how absurd many flip effects are allowed to be while still seeing very little play i think its still fair to say its more a detriment then a benefit

[@IndexInvestingWithCole]

@@Rurike that’s like saying trap cards are a failed mechanic because if they were quick play spells they would be better

[@Rurike]

@IndexInvestingWithCole i mean not really. For one in essence, flip monsters are even slower then traps but also Flip effects have more weaknesses then just being slow

[@traincore1955]

Imagine if Fiber Jar and Cyber Jar were unlimited Duel logs wouldn't be calling the mechanic failed KEK

[@Carigun]

on MD I tried floodgating with Subterrors and Ghostricks. SB Ultramafus mass Book of Moons, Ghostrick Night stops your opponent from flip summoning if you control a Ghostrick (I used Angel of Mischeif as we didint have Festival.) Ghostrick Manor allows for direct attacks while not touching for your opponents monsters. I just never pulled of the lock. I had options to deal with link monsters. There will be a day where I can abuse Ghostrick Night.

[@fameshark]

Flips should reinvent themselves like Big Shield Gardna. Give each member of an archetype 4 distinct effects: 1) A normal, instant advantage effect like modern cards. Say a search on summon. 2) An effect that lets them HOPT flip themselves face down instead of being destroyed, or an effect that lets them flip themselves face down to negate the activation of a card that targets them, or if theyre used as material for an archetypal extra deck summon, etc 3) an effect that lets them flip face up when a condition happens, say if a monster is moved from the gy, a normal summoned monster activates an effect, the opponent draws a card, etc 4) a flip effect

[@jvsonic2468]

so no continuous effects like Deus Ex Krawler would exist in your ideal of a perfect Flip monster?

[@Amethyst2941]

I still use pure Shaddoll deck to this day. Such a fun deck. I know Construct and Winda are the big fusion monsters but, I have won duels with Shekhinga and Apkallone. Always like using Shaddoll against decks like Tri Brigade and Kaiju.

[@orangegalen]

Pure Shaddoll was/is the first deck I built in Master Duel, and even back when Drytron was at full power, I could still manage wins.

[@kauanjos3199]

Have you tried the ishizu engine? Even if they're all at 1 they give gas to shadoll

[@martinhall659]

No better feeling than a Cyber Jar turning a losing situation into a winning game.

[@mysteryinc6720]

I love this video. Some of my all time favorite older cards are flip effect monsters that never even have the chance of being used in today's fast game. One way this flip effect mechanic could have a similar effect to what they once had is if they included a "face down" effect. Where a monster effect has the option to have the "Flip" effect or an immediate "face down" effect.

[@Christopher-tz3mr]

My favorite was using "Invader of the Throne". Sooo many ppl used this card incorrectly. Using trap "Light of Intervention" after setting invader. This way u can steal your opponent's monster with invader's flip effect or trigger trap during ur opponent's turn after they summon a monster.

[@dimitriskontoleon6787]

No flip monster is not failed mechanic, is just a very old mechanic. If Konami print card Flip draw three card this card see tones of play from sure. The effect was not enought, no the mechanic

[@fortnitesexman]

it didn't fail initially, but it has over the years a good mechanic is one that works, and flip monsters just don't work anymore

[@tenkenroo]

Too easy to destroy. Now if modern flip effects also had effects that activated in graveyard MAYBE they would be used.

[@streetgamer3452]

Pot of the forbidden allows you to draw 2. It sees zero play. A flip would have to be able to flip itself over and floodgate the opponent to be used. Just a flip that says “Flip: Draw 3” would still not be used without a “If your opponent controls a Monster, you can flip this card face-up”

[@dimitriskontoleon6787]

​@@streetgamer3452 yes but this monster was level 8, and in fact is forced to see play in very specific deck. (even if had also three overpower effect to choose). I mean on level 4 or lower. I still get your point, maybe now, even the flip draw 3 was not enought even if you forced to not have normal summon and if you forced to protect this card in order to take this effect the next turn. (or after possible attack)

[@streetgamer3452]

@@dimitriskontoleon6787 level 4 and lowers will never get that type of effect. That’s not conceivable imo outside of well customs.

[@Rainbow-Dash]

Flip Monsters are my favourite Jank Deck for Casual tabletop play with the bois, nothing is more fun then actually resolving Dice Jar haha

[@gManGabe]

Making the flip effect useable instantly would just defeat the point of the mechanic. I like the Ghostrick solution better: Face-downs can't be attacked, but don't stop direct attacks. This increases the chance they will survive long enough to activate.

[@GunnarWahl]

I’d suggest a link 1 crawler or subterror that requires a flip monster. And it’ll have a unique summon effect where you reveal the link to your opponent, then target a face down and flip it. As long as it’s a flip monster, it’s flip effect resolves and then the link is link summoned. It can from that point basically do nothing but it already served it’s purpose.

[@pi_xi]

I am playing a Krawler/Digital Bug deck with Voltelluric and it actually works well. A Link 1 Krawler would be interesting, but maybe too broken together with Ranvier.

[@khoanamysalami4186]

Having a rota that is specific to generic flip monsters could be a crazy support. Maybe too crazy that it might get a limited off rip even with a hard once per turn and/or strict level limit, but I feel like a flip monster search wouldn’t be incredibly nasty, but maybe too techable in some decks that may use such a search card for its floating effect or the extra discard for a combo/extension play.

[@Varudras]

Great video, love all these niche tear lists. Video idea: Top most expensive cards that have a common (re)print

[@TheFloodFourm]

The fact that these cards are considered “failures”, when literally the only reason they suck is because better cards were put out purely for monetary gain, is the epitome of why I hate the modern yugioh community. Such a simplistic, naive way if looking at it.

[@themantyf1116]

I wonder if it could help to give flip monsters the effect that, if they are about to leave the field, they can be flipped face up. That would fix the removal issue while keeping their effects, instead of giving additional ones. And could potentially be used together with self-bouncing card or something similar. Also, I know why it's difficult to do, but introducing something like special setting (akin to special summoning, but allows you to set the monsters face down instead) could help. It could also find play alongside or against strategy that limits special summoning.

[@Zetact_]

You run 3 separate printings of Ryko to gaslight your opponent about what its effect specifically does, obviously.

[@gogovish]

gaslamp not gaslight. it isn't hard to get right

[@thatman666]

Oh gosh, this is almost similar to Necrovalley erratas.

[@Epzilon12]

Flips either need a way to flip as response, give good graveyard effects like shadoll or give them just like, broken effects

[@Yinyanyeow]

The last one was done for them... didn't work sadly...

[@Zer0Main43]

The only way to fix flips is to make them flip as response, they tried giving flips good grave effects, then people started playing flips just for the graveyard effects, they tried giving flips the most busted shit ever but they are too slow to take advantage of how good their effects are if their effects are even good

[@zoaero]

Konami just need allow you too set 2 monster card per turn, and also you can active it if a card target it with effect in opponent turn

[@Zer0Main43]

@@zoaero yea you could use your second normal to set a flip, or you could use your second normal to go into an extender, a floodgate, a tower or Aleister for the invoked engine and probably a lot more Also they could still be beat by non-targeting removal or board wipes (aka: most going second tools) and most flip monster effects wouldn’t be good enough even if you could set them after a full combo, like some would obviously be good when they activate but there are just too many ways around them even if set cards flipped when they are targeted which also wouldn’t only benefit flips, a lot of cards want to get targeted to activate effects and would be a lot better if your opponent didn’t specifically know they have to play around them, a shit ton of cards would get way better and I don’t think flips would benefit the most because flips still have the problem of being slow and having faster options for similar effects, even if you had 2 normals and face down targeted monsters flipped face up, so many other cards would benefit from that and I don’t think flips would become playable if both happened

[@CarbonMalite]

They all need conditions to allow them to special summon themselves face down, allow protections while face down (face down position should've been harder to target to begin with), and/or have abilities that allow them to use flip effects under more generic conditions

[@melvinshine9841]

Flip monsters have a lot of the same problems "battle traps" do; they can't do anything on Turn 1 and they do nothing at all if they're removed in any way before you can activate them. I had a better Failed Cards idea, but I can't remember what it is, so I'll just suggest Earthbound Gods again. Earthbound Gods "fixed" some of the issues Toon monsters had, but still aren't good outside of the hummingbird and haven't received any support.

[@williamdrum9899]

I think the biggest problem is that a single Normal Summon lets you start a chain reaction of vomiting out a huge number of monsters, and flip monsters basically require you to skip all that for a huge number of archetypes.

[@darkside7802]

I hope this guy doesn’t run out of ideas. He’s amazing with these videos.

[@jokerofmorocco]

One way to improve flip monsters is to make them like trap cards where you can immediately flip them up on your opponents turn. In addition, should create flip monsters that are Spell Speed 4. This wouldn't automatically make them a powerhouse but at least it would significantly improve them. Like they could have a "Solemn Judgement" like flip monster that negates effects or summons, maybe having them banish instead of destroy to buff them

[@randomcatname7792]

That's the worst idea anyone's come up with Flip monsters would be stronger than full power Zoodiac at that point

[@jokerofmorocco]

@@randomcatname7792 It still has the disadvantage of requiring to be set first like trap cards which is why the effects should be strong

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

​@@jokerofmorocco Screw strength, it defeats the point of making them flip monsters I would argue... How do we make *being slow* not be a problem? How do we slit speed's throat?

[@adoorwithstaronit8573]

Mecha Phantom Beasts are an interesting case of how tokens are utilized but fails in variety of different ways. The archetype surprisingly have many different cards to use token generation based play but it does in a way that is clunky and slow. There is like 2 usefull main deck monsters in the archetype that is actually decent those being Tetherwolf and O-Lion. Aside from those monsters, the archetype has little to no monsters allowing you to create advantage properly. And the acrhetype has in my opinion, includes one of the worst spell/trap support in the entire game ranging from cards with costly maintenance/activation costs and generating little to no advantage. As for extra deck monsters, Dracossac and Auroradon are actually the only competitively useful monsters to the point they are used as generic support for other decks, but not used in their home archetype since majority of cards doesn't do great job creating a synergy with them. I really want to see a video on this topic. These cards certainly have an interesting history despite the archetype itself is barely funtional

[@brandonleathers2938]

I think Gravekeeper Spy is like solemn Judgement for the fact we didn't know at the time the potential. Playing a lot of GOAT format I use Panda burn with 3 spy's. People can't get around that usually, unless they are -1 just to get through that 2000 defense.

[@itsmesteve1081]

Who remembers penguin soldier? My friend used to return his penguin soldier and one of my monsters back to my hand when I attacked in to it. Later on I understood that penguin soldier is supposed to be destroyed by battle 😂 We had the same issue with black cat with white tail too. We just thought it was a straight up overpowered version of penguin soldier hahaha

[@dragonsuper6195]

Yup cheap level 100

[@GingerThoroughBread]

I just made Prediction Princess Guard Dog Turbo deck that I'm having fun with. I also think it would be a cool, but not at all broken, piece of generic FLIP support if there was a card that let you shuffle the Set monsters on the field (like Magical Hats). Just in general, it might be a cool idea for FLIP card to lean into how they are face down and your opponent doesn't know what they are. That and the other things that were said about making them more like Ninja cards (maybe that's how Ninjas work, I don't know, I've never heard of them before)

[@Hugelag]

Say what you will, but when the stars align, Aroma Jar stall is a magical and hilarious thing.

[@pandabytes4991]

Give a card an effect, but then let that affect amplify if it is triggered through flipping the card face up. ex. Summon/Special summon - mill 1 card from decks. Flip - Mill 2 cards from decks

[@SproingBoing]

I think Krawlers had an inkling of the right idea. With the exception of Deus X-Krawler, they have the shared effect to float into 2 more Krawlers if your opponent removed them via effect. Too bad the effect only works when they're face up, it would've been a nice way to punish blind pops or a field wipe

[@locoludwin3228]

Mimicking man eater bug is a solid card when you are playing against a 1 archetype deck, it's only weakness becomes spells that can target it since no monster can ever deal with it

[@Netherwolf6100]

I say the only way to make a flip archetype tier 1 or tier 0 is to combine the fundamentals of 3 differs t archetypes together into one: Shaddolls, Ghostricks, and Subterrors. Gotta give them a way to abuse and force their battle states and positions at will, alternate effects if they're sent to the grave without activating their flip effects and the ability to lock down your opponent if you have face down monsters. It's the only way I could see it working with how fast Yugioh has become

[@TBKOTOROB]

Man Eater Bug was the goat and bane of the schoolyard

[@TNE001]

No. Flip Monsters are NOT a failed card mechanic. Back in my day, Flip Monsters were generally the best kind of Effect Monster there was (Man-Eater Bug, Magician Of Faith, Trap Master, etc).

[@Zer0Main43]

The problem with flips is that they have printed like 2 good flips since DM-GX era, those being the shaddolls which are good because of everything except the fact they have flip effects, and guru, the only good flip monster they have printed that actually uses the flip effect and guru is only good because of how much subterror support they made before printing guru when konami really wanted subterrors to be good, mainly hidden city and subterrors pretty good traps A lot of flips read like they are gamebreaking but they always have one of 2 problems (usually both and I’m not talking about how they are slow, plenty of traps see play and they are just as slow as flips are) that stop them from seeing play First problem is obviously, their effects aren’t strong enough compared to other available cards to warrant playing an inherently slower cards, you could play ryko or his retrain or you could play any other mill card which are just as good (usually better) and don’t have the inherent speed problem flips have, and the second problem with flips is the fact they are too resource dependent, to use flip monsters you have to get them face down on the field, this will most likely be done by setting them from your hand and taking your normal or occasionally, by using an effect to set them from somewhere else, the problem is usually setting them from somewhere else is archetypal because konami just forgot how to make non-archetypal cards so if their are even flips in that archetype they aren’t guaranteed to be good so you will really only ever set them from your hand taking your normal, this is bad, this means a lot of non-archetypal flips and even some archetypal flips compete with better openers in that archetype or the few non-archetypal staple monsters that still exist and you actually play because you can use them as monsters like Aleister or something, also because you set them and didn’t summon them, you need to either wait for your opponent to do something that flips them up during their turn, which is completely out of your control and at this point in yugioh, it is far more likely for your opponent to remove them with something that doesn’t flip them, like for example, almost every piece of removal that has been released in the past 10 years or they might just ignore it completely and do their full combo which likely result in your flip monster being walked over, it’s effect activating and because flips are underpowered, not saving you from your opponents full board of monsters about to kill you, if you somehow get to turn 2 and your opponent hasn’t removed your flip monster or put up negates and/or floodgates that stop your flips from activating, then congratulations, you can flip face up your monster and activate it’s effect which again, likely won’t save you from the fact that your opponent probably spent that one turn you have them comboing off Really the main problem with flips is that flips as a mechanic are archaic to say the least, they are inherently slower that other effects unless you mitigate that by filling your decks with cards that can flip them up faster and more consistently which takes up space you could have used on more combo pieces making your deck more consistent, engines to let your deck do things it couldn’t normally or staples that cover your deck’s weaknesses but instead your wasting 3 spots on book of taiyuo to activate one cards effects that you will probably also need to have 3 copies of, that’s 6 slots you could have spent on ash, nibiru, dpe, more copies of essential combo pieces and pretty much anything else that will impact the game faster than flips will and most of the time, have just as good and more often than not better effects than the flip monsters you choose to include, they are a remnant of the (relatively speaking) slow, resource and control focused game that Yu-Gi-Oh used to be where you could get way with playing a card that won’t help you until your next turn, they are like traps in a way but at least you can set as many traps as you want and at least you have control over when they activate during your opponent’s turn, flips take every downside of traps ( can’t be used immediately and your opponent usually knows it’s a trap if you bothered setting something) and every downside of monsters (usually do nothing on your opponents turn, can be walked over fairly easily by other monsters and monster removal is the most common type of removal in the game, only one per turn outside of effects) and jam them into one card and usually it’s effects wouldn’t even be good enough to see play if it was just a trap or just a monster

[@ButFirstHeLitItOnFire]

If I were to make a card to give Flip Monsters of all sorts an edge for the foreseeable future: _Flipping The (Winged-Beast)_ Counter Trap _Once per duel, If your opponent would remove any number of monsters you control from the field (by battle or card effect), You can instead Tribute any number of monsters from your hand or field, then normal or special summon facedown any number of Flip-Monsters from your hand or deck who’s combined ATK/DEF is equal or less then the combined ATK/DEF of the tributed monsters. If this set card is activated, you can also tribute any number of spell/trap cards from your hand or field: Set facedown an equal number of normal or continuous spell/trap cards from your hand or deck onto your field._

[@Ryushiin.]

best flip monster nowadys still bein the Morphing jars. Especially #2, because many player doesn't seem to concerned about face down monsters, set up beat down boards without an option to counter a flip monster. Had quite a bunch of matches in Master Duel where people quit gamer after getting wiped by #2 effect

[@mateusgabriel6108]

What I like to see on Flip Archetypes is how they do your Gimmick of the best way possible, Prediction Princess has his Rituals, that even can look kinda Clunck it's curious the fact that they can be good for even Flip Monster, Worm is a strange case because even If was used on some tournaments It wasn't for the Flip strategy, and because you can go to a lot of plus with the Very few good cards (Xex sends Yagan, Yagan summon himself, with Meteor Nebula you can Flip Yagan and maybe a Cartaros, draw some cards and summons freely King from the deck), Krawlers even If they aren't necessary good Flip Monsters on the Sense of their Flip effects they are Very good on swarming the field and their World Legacy cards that até focused on Krawlers. Tindangle I think is the only modern Flip deck that I can say that failed because It has a lot of higher level Monsters that doesn't summon themselves easily (except intruder) and the dumbiest decision of giving Focus on that level 5 0/2100 that I Forgot the name that himself isn't a Flip Monster and doesn't has a incredible effect to bê mentioned on other Tindangle Monsters, it's more like a Garnet that you need to use because other cards mention him.

[@jvsonic2468]

there's still a way to save them properly, but it would go towards the means of broken for the entire mechanic as a whole which is unfortunate.

[@mateusgabriel6108]

One thing that It would bê a great for Flip decks it's a Monster with this kinda of effect: If you Control a face-down defense position Monster, you can special summon this card (from your hand). If this cards is summoned by this way you can target 1 face-down defense position, change this card battle position. Some bad Worm Monsters has this kinda of effect, but they aren't good because they don't summon themselves easily (and I don't understand why all level 6 worms has the special summon restriction, they aren't Flip Monsters, the Archetype can't summon them easily and you can't even special summon them by generic methods).

[@jvsonic2468]

@@mateusgabriel6108 part of that is possible lore reasons but also is when they were released and hadn't gotten much direct support since. They came from a time in YGO is all about grind and tempo and most cards back then were horribly designed due to experimentation and possibly lack of play testing. Don't know why Konami is pretending to forget about them when us, the playerbase, know how to fix the deck's strategy for modern standards.

[@En2md]

I've been thinking of a few different flip monster effects based on hoops and a few different potential support cards. Some powerful effects are often based on board state drawbacks like not having as many cards as your opponent. If this facedown card is targeted flip this card face up and active effects based on the number of other facedown monsters you control. Only active this effect if there are no cards in your spell and trap zones, or only activate this effect if you have no cards in hand, or only activate this effect if you control no special summoned monsters. You could maybe incorperate new traps that extend the number of sets but not summons in a turn. You might even be able to have auto flip effects trigger based on proactive actions the player takes like drawing a card, destroying a card, or the flipping of another monster. Field or continuous spells that tick up the effect number on flip cards by 1 allowing you to reach requirments easier. With #4 effects being like, negate the card or effect that targets this card, while also getting the other effects listed on the card like, gain life, draw a card and discard, and return a card to opponents hand. The level 4 or level 5 flip effects being huge payoffs like returning monsters from grave, or nontargeted theft of an opponents boss monster by gaining control of your oppoents monster with the highest total combined stats. There's a lot of other ideas I have for this like your cards taking account of the entire board including your opponents monsters, with some effects changing their feild positions to be, attack, defense, or face down being the strongest. One final thought being that you could change the way some flip monsters become flipped summoned, having some of them flip into defense mode instead of attack mode. I genuinely wanna design a whole archtype off of this and call it "Cascadia" or something (if that's not already a name) because I love flip monsters a lot and wish they didn't fall so hard out of meta.

[@cydennn2263]

Would love to see you talk in-depth about exodia retrains, given how they're even less popular than the original exodia.

[@smb-c3po]

I only ever use two of them in my deck and they're insects, I have to rely on regular Man-Eater Bug until I can get the better retrain and maybe even Galactic Kuriboh if it's any better than Rainbow Kuriboh.

[@lordvika2526]

Triple gravekeepers spy and guard was a staple in blackwing decks. Since it gave you a free lvl 4 monster for a syncro summon.

[@9Destra]

Here’s my idea for Flip Monster support Inverse Arena Field Spell When this card is activated: You can Special Summon 1 Flip monster from your hand or Deck in face-down defense position. (This monster cannot be flipped face-up this turn.) During either player’s turn: you can Set 1 monster immediately after this effect resolves. You can only use each effect of “Inverse Arena” once per turn.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

Special Summon face down is known as Special Set in a few cards, might be good to use here.

[@9Destra]

@@youtubeuniversity3638 Modern PSCT specifically says “in face-down Defense Position”

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

I liked Equipment back in the day. Slapping an Axe of Despair on your 7 Colored Fish to beat over Summoned Skull has to be one of the most defining memories of caveman yugioh

[@QuasarEE]

Getting Great Maju Garzett to 6000 ATK with United We Stand.

[@residentgrey]

Flips are in a way like *5+ XYZ summons. They take some other card to smooth out the process enough to make them viable, like how we have Rank-Up spells to leverage *4's into something with even more OOMPH without the hassle of Normal summoning each needed part or needing pendulum support.

[@shapesnatch1341]

The whole Subterror archetype is probably the closest to a viable flip archetype we will ever get. Despite the fact the Guru, Fiendess, Hidden City, Final Battle + a bunch of floodgates and Traps is arguably the better way to play, pure Subterrors can still be usable. They can easily summon their high level monster that can all easily flip themselves face down. Not only that, most of their effects are actually really good: drawing cards, milling any card from your deck, banishing your opponents cards, protecting your entire field from desturction, mass non-targeting flipping etc.

[@hannamori8955]

despite the series called, this is more of a Fallen Mechanic rather than blalantly Failed Mechanic. Flip monster is one of the most unique aspect of early yugioh, that benefit from its lack of resource. Other game cannot really replicate flip monster, even the modern itteration of flip monster shown in this video is lacking the "what-if" mind games of true old flip monster. But life must go on, and I will remember flip monster fondly

[@martinmiltenov8679]

And now we are getting mimighoul which actually will be a strong!😁

[@kashtiranaxxheart]

It’s not a failed mechanic if it worked for years. Dated now, yes but not failed.

[@dragonch0ch0ch06]

they could make a rule change that face down monsters get flipped when they are being destroyed or banished by effect, unless the effect tells you they are being destroyed face down. that way it would be hard to get rid if flip monsters without triggering its effect.

[@andrewmattar4178]

If they can print a card that can special summon flip monsters face down, it would make you use their effects the same turn. Also, if a flip monster has a flip effect tied to another effect. Ex: Flip monster: You can target 1 monster on the field, flip it and this card face down. When this card is flipped back face up, target another card on the field, destroy it. You can use this effect of "insert card name" once per turn. This effect is balanced by the fact that it's tied to a flip condition which slows the card enough to not be broken which I guess they can print make even crazier effects like that.

[@munchrai6396]

The suggestion that I find the most interesting is making more flip monsters with similar triggers to Deus Ex Crawler, where they act as situational trap cards more than monsters. Sure Deus Ex only triggers on targeting, but it's a small jump from targeting to destruction, to certain card types activating their effects in general

[@jvsonic2468]

there's a lot of ways you can go about fixing Flip monsters ion the modern like grant the most peak protection to the mechanic, make their floating effects more stronger or baits for other floating effects on Flip monsters, making a floodgate specifically for that mechanic and that mechanic alone, or even a pseudo-negate with the card itself being flipped (changing the effect of an opponent's Spell Speed 1 or 2 card). The problem is most of those options would towards more literal broken levels of support or be more annoying if not designed the right way.

[@munchrai6396]

@@jvsonic2468 I don't think speeding up the flip is inherently problematic because at best, it's still a trap card that you have to summon to setup. Niche, archetypal support like this is never going to be insane unless you do all 3 of those things in the same archetype, which would honestly be very cool

[@jvsonic2468]

@@munchrai6396 not in terms of inherentness. I mean in terms of monsters' unique effects combined with the inherent speed up. If we ever get to the effects of like bootleg Evenly Matched or most of the overplayed floodgates involved, then the game will become the most unfun and players would complain once again for those cards to hit the banlist immediately. They can be powerful but not to the point the game becomes like a chess game.

[@arronomus8026]

What about Ghostrick? Wasn't the whole point of that archetype to flip your monsters up and down?

[@GameNinja13]

So Flip monsters didn't fail. The designers failed when the power crept hard.

[@AustinStephan]

Flip monsters just need a generic searcher or a cool field spell that makes set monsters non-destroyable or something. I know that won't save them, but it would be neat.

[@Dersssy]

Technically, lord of the heavenly prison can protect set monsters as well. The krawler field spell and hidden city are also insane for flips as well in their respective archetype strategy.

[@williamdrum9899]

I don't know if that would be enough, since you can't vomit your entire deck into play with set monsters

[@Jyxero]

Flips have a searcher, but is another flip (Tindangle Jhrelth) Heavily also works from both sides

[@snes90]

Flips also need help generating bodies on your field. Krawlers, when removed by card effect, generate two Krawlers from your deck which is cool. But Krawlers still (competitively) suck, so what do I know. 😅

[@kennydarmawan13]

Morph from MtG is this mechanic done better. For starters, they're faster and more reliable than Flip because they ignore timing restrictions due to being a special action. And they're already functional bodies on the field unlike the dormant face-down Flip cards. Sure, some aspects of Morph haven't aged well, but you get more use from Morph faster than from Flip.

[@williamdrum9899]

I think Flip monsters in their prime were better than Morph in MTG. Very rarely are morphs used in non-rotating formats (at least the ones I've played).

[@kennydarmawan13]

@@williamdrum9899 interesting. Still, Morph is a lot easier to use since you know what to do and what you can do already. But with Flip, you know but you can't unless you got the game plan prepared.

[@MercurySmith-]

I actually use a couple flip monsters in Duel Links and they have their benefits. I use Man-Eater Bug & Gale Lizard because they can not only be a shield but also either destroy a monster or send it back to the hand. So if you have two monsters and I only one, you won’t be getting to my life points. They’re a good stall

[@olagarto1917]

Well... I dont think that getting power kreept is enough tu call an arquetipe failled ... Flip had its time and place in the meta, and was profuseli played competitiv and casualy, and also was a great part of early ygo flavor of 'things in the dark'

[@knightmeh]

remember the art of charmers and played it in master duels. was introduce to subterror and learning it. its a fun flip mechanic, still get crushed by fast decks though haha

[@Dpsnadress]

Umm... I use mimicking man eater bug in all kids a decks.. sure surprises those tear deck's!! 😆😊 It's actually in the regionals right now.. good flip effect lol

[@johnacker4959]

My first yugioh deck ever was just random flip effect monsters back in 9th grade when i knew nothing about playing but just used all the old cards i had from my younger years

[@kaitai7302]

If you want improve Flip monsters, I think you need to make them work more like Trap Monsters. Either give them more effects like Deus X-Krawler, that let the cards flip themselves, or maybe make some that work like Artifacts, and have them be set as traps you can activate.

[@nunyabiznes33]

Yeah being able to flip up and down by themselves, during either player's turn would be nice.

[@SketchBookShortFilms]

I think two things would really help drag Flip Monsters. 1. Setting a monster does not take up your normal summon, allowing you to more easily flood the board. 2. Flip effects instead work like MTG 'Kicker' effects where the card has the effect as is but if the kicker cost is paid (in this case by setting the monster and later flipping it) then the original effect is empowered.

[@henke37]

With flip monsters having such a legacy, it is strange that there are so few cards with once per flip restrictions. You should do a video about those!

[@jeremyranger4260]

What if the FLIP mechanic was spell speed 2 (Quick effect)? Meaning that you could flip your monster in response to anything a quick-play spell or non-counter trap could respond. Would that fix the problem?

[@snes90]

Sadly I don't think it gets them all the way there. I assume they would obey quick-play Spell and Trap rules in that they cannot be flipped/activated during the turn they're set. So you still need to wait until your opponent's turn to get any use out of them. They also suffer from taking up your normal summon, whereas you can set multiple Spells/Traps. But your idea does make them faster, so maybe some busted flip effects would take it from there? A new FLIP archetype could play like Floo and you do a lot of summoning and effects on your opponent's turn.

[@jeremyranger4260]

@@snes90 Yeah so my Idea was to rework the core mechanic so that Konami could then build the proper support around it. By making it like that, you essentially have 10 potential trap provided you can set more than 1 per turn. Let's say they make a LINK-1 monster requiring a FLIP monster as material, but it allows you to set 2 monsters from hand/deck on summon plus an additionnal set per turn in addition to your normal summon/set. Pair that with a field spell that searches any FLIP monster on activation AND each time you set a monster to keep hand advantage then you might have a pretty powerful mechanic based on control rather than floodgates.

[@byrontheusurper6505]

I like aroma jar, it's fun in aroma decks!

[@JiiWoon]

Never stop uploading content, i love this channel 👏🏽👏🏽

[@EvilLordDeimos]

I think fiber jar can come off the list, what with the new lp rules and stuff. Also with the way banishing works i.e: desires, prosperity and the litany of G.Y effects that people use, less to recover if a fiber jar gets its effect going. Or they could errata it to banish itself when it resolves.

[@Zafire063]

When I started playing Yugioh in 2002, Flip Effects won me every single tournament I played in. I would just make a deck with nothing but flip effects and instant death cards like Trap Hole/Michizure. I would normally end up with 4-5 monsters with 300-450 attack in attack mode and nobody could touch me. It stopped being viable after the next tier of cards came out though, but it was still fun. I remember getting to the finals against this guy that drove 200 miles to play and I crushed him. Good times. Now I play with Watts and get crushed by everything. Still fun anyway.

[@calich33sehead]

They need to print some Flip Monsters with effects that are busted out the ass, cause the mechanic has a great deck to be played in Prediction Princess.

[@justinalicea1590]

I'm sorry DuelLogs, but I have to call you out on this: besides Magician of Fate, "older formats" knowledge seems to stop at Monarchs. Does that make Chaos and before metagames ancient formats or something?

[@Myusernamerulez]

I propose a rule change where if a set card is targeted by card effect it is flipped face up before that effect resolves.

[@TBANinjaAbe]

an entire video about flip monsters and you never mentioned pacman, pure advantage camel needs to be respected

[@plinioaraujo3949]

I'd like to see history of the meta part 2

[@CarbonMalite]

There should be conditions that allow flips to flip outside of your turn or the battle phase. Think subterror final battle but on an entire archetype. They would have to have more effects to really be potent, but Konami hasn't even tried to make something cool/broken with flip effects it seems

[@LordApoca]

Guru control, best deck💚

[@leogmg]

As to the actual topic of the video, as a "Yugi boomer" that recently returned to the game thanks to Master Duel, it's sad to see how Flip monsters have fallen out of relevancy, even if I understand why. As an aside, I dread Pendulums might be on route to suffer the same fate, given the paltry support they have gotten from Konami recently, not to mention their inherent mechanic making it difficult to splash non-engine cards. They are my favorite of the summoning mechanics introduced after the Synchro era.

[@nihildwo4874]

i mean it is funny, because the typical yugiboomer response is "pendulum ruined yugioh"

[@TrollCapAmerica]

@@nihildwo4874 Thats not true. it was ruined in late XYZ when they specifically threw balance out to try and get people to pay for broken archtype after broken archtype until you reach an age where immune to card effect 4 K attack omni-negateing monsters summoned with a one card combo are as common as a 1800 beater in 2004.Pendulum were just next and got all the hate even though Link is far more braindead

[@Evan_Schaefering]

@@TrollCapAmerica Yugioh has been "ruined" from the very beginning in my opinion. It is, at it's core, a poorly designed mess of a card game. It suffers from rules that were barely functional in 1999, let alone after 20 years of intense powercreep. The lack of rotating sets, and/or Konami's greed/incompetence, created the environment for the rampant powercreep and balance issues, which are nothing recent by the way. Even from the very earliest days of the game Konami powercrept the game incredibly fast. The meta went from the incredibly simple Summoned Skull Beatdown to something complex like GOAT Control in the matter of like 3 years. The game still manages to be fun a lot of the time, largely in spite of itself, but there isn't really a single point where the game got ruined.

[@gamesmohamed6818]

Dude just tell me how a mechanic that dominated 7 years a failed mechanic

[@DPowered2]

He does in the video and he says modern Era of the game constantly

[@ricardomiles2957]

doesn't cancel everything and can't special summon all of your monsters = Bad

[@michaelburroughs9150]

Tell me you didn't watch the video before posting this comment. Legit says it at the beginning how they were considered staples during their era.

[@streetgamer3452]

“However, in the modern era, you’ll hardly see a deck use flip monsters anymore.”

[@dimitriskontoleon6787]

​@@streetgamer3452 I agree but is not even close fail mechanic. Is just very old.

[@SirGrimly]

Can Normal monsters be considered a fail mechanic for the same reasons as Flip monsters? If so it would be interesting to see a video covering the OG monster type

[@deityofcrystals]

Normal monsters still see play by being archetypal

[@SirGrimly]

@@deityofcrystals To my understanding, you only really see Normal monsters as Garnets used as fusion fodder in modern Yugioh (No where near the relevance they had all throughout the DM era)

[@holdmysacc4330]

Normal monsters are generally “keystones” for certain decks, such ss sunavalon, sea stealth, or qliphort. The game is too fast paced for the entire engine to be only normal monsters with spells/traps, so new deck try to keep normal monsters to 3 copies per deck or less. With the current advanced format I don’t see normal monsters coming back when most decks combo off 1-2 cards

[@SirGrimly]

@@holdmysacc4330 I take it these are all rogue decks or tier 2 (I don't know if there is a difference) atm?

[@jvsonic2468]

don't forget Phantasm Spiral exits

[@JohnnydukesDragon]

Waiting for penguin soldier.mention

[@jordirtwl3446]

You forgot about the most powerful flip archetype, princess prediction can ss any flip monster during ep and with the latest new ritual card and the lvl 9 giving protection