043 - F-5 Freedom Fighter / Tiger II

[@1026cvalle]

I grew up in Comayagua, Honduras, near the F-5E squadron. I loved hanging out in the backyard watching them flying by.

[@marleygus9738]

I know I'm kinda randomly asking but do anyone know of a good site to stream new movies online ?

[@manizaeim]

Thanks a lot for this episode, this plane is legendary for me, I just love this airplane and many people do not really care about it as it is old 3rd gen, it has great potential in dogfights as it is small to visually detected, agile and maneuverable in dogfights compare to its own generations, very cheap and easy to maintain ; 29:00 we are still friends, just forget abut the politics (I am iranian) ;) , I love F-5 may be because my father was F-5 pilot before Iran-Iraq war, during the 8 years war and after war :), so I just love it since I was watching the landing and takeoff as close as possible in the ramp and attend couple of times in Test and Training Range when I was a kid and go with my father to see the canon firing ... , loved those childhood times, and I enter into DCS world simulator just because of F-5 :))

[@HabitualButtonPusher]

That's the best things about jets, it doesn't matter where you're from Jets are just cool! Respect for your Dad!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@HabitualButtonPusher here here!

[@manizaeim]

@@HabitualButtonPusher salutes, thanks, i am agree with u 100%, wish there wont be any war too. We all love jets, technologies and flight.

[@nmnmnm35]

Your father likely trained at Laughlin like many of the Irani pilots did. So cool

[@manizaeim]

@@nmnmnm35 thats correct, and Sheppard I guess!

[@RLDenham]

At 33:02 the first flight was mentioned but needs a correction. F-5A 1st flight was on July 30th 1959 F-5E 1st flight was on August 11 1972

[@SimDeck]

Superb interview. I had no idea Paco was so involved in creating that documentary. He came across as one of the coolest instructors ever in Speed and Angels even laughing at one point during a BFM engagement. That is one of the best Fighter Pilot Podcasts I have heard although I keep saying that about every episode. Just gets better and better. Many thanks.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thanks! We strive for continual improvement...

[@LRRPFco52]

Speed and Angles was an excellent film. Loved it.

[@pacoch]

LRRPFco52 , Thanks! Try the book. You’ll love it more.

[@bret9741]

I don’t believe there has ever been a more simply beautiful aircraft. The F-5, T-38 have sexy lines and balance. As far as college for pilots…..I’m torn with this. After training a lot of pilots. I’ve found 16-18 year olds learn the physical hands on flying much faster than a 21 year old. However, they after don’t have the maturity to be a leader. The British have been very successful taking kids without college degrees and making them pilots. The US Navy also has had good success with taking kids without degrees. NAVCAD (Naval Aviation Cadet) takes students who have two years of college and puts them into the cockpit. However, after their first squadron tour is completed, they are sent back to finish their degrees from what I understand. It’s been a long time since so checked. But my Captain on Eisenhower was a NAVCAD officer.

[@andresgarcia4570]

You know...not only the content is great for us the aviation nerds, but the fact that you get to listen to all these great dudes is incredible, I wish I had friends like you guys! This channel is such a joy!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thanks, Andres!

[@RCAvhstape]

One time many years ago I was at an airfield and there were F-5's from VMFT-401 there. They were painted in desert camo, and painted on the tail fin was a communist red star with a little black Marine Corps emblem in the middle of the star. It was one of the most badass things I'd ever seen. I was also a bit surprised at how small the F-5 is compared to some of the more modern jets. Even a Harrier is a big muscular beast next to an F-5, and A-4 Skyhawks, while not big, stand pretty high on their landing gear.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

True on all accounts! Hoping for an A-4 episode eventually...

[@tpochep]

Jello, Sunshine, thanks for this great episode (and many thanks to your guest too, btw I'm now watching the documentary he made).

[@modscientist9793]

Speed and Angels is a great documentary...great work Paco!!❤ thanks Jello!

[@X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X]

One of my favourite fighter aircraft as much as I love the Tomcat and others, I admire the "basic" approach of the F-5! Plus, my neighbouring country to the south, Switzerland, still has them in service.

[@quizels0695]

Underbird switzerlands F-5's have been taken out of weapon service they only use them as training planes or well as aggresors

[@quizels0695]

since 2018

[@IamN0-1]

Just got speed and angels on my Amazon Prime a couple a days ago. Tell commander Chierici bravo on the series👍

[@DrGrijpgraag]

Good episode! One note I have is that the Dutch F-5 Demo team has not been a thing for a long time since we replaced them all with the F-16, which is now the main solo display aircraft. Very nice livery too!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Live by Wikipedia, die by Wikipedia!

[@J_C7-1]

I’m late, very late. But I almost had a stroke when I heard “Rochester”. Great interview!

[@couchfighter]

Dang. I came back and for a sec thought it was Paco Geisler. two really awesome Pacos...

[@simflier8298]

Wow! Upside down in an F-5, with a pierced neck. I was getting anxious and claustrophobic just thinking about it! Many thanks for the risks you guys have taken for our freedoms

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Right? Crazy story. Wished I'd had the presence of mind to ask him how late he was for his party!

[@simflier8298]

Unbelievable! He's a great guy! I loved Speed and Angles. Those documentaries, like PBS, give us a glimpse of what you went through. We'll never forget you guys

[@thesovietvorona1007]

Four years late but a great documentary comment I heard years ago about the F-5(best jet we’ve maybe ever designed) “The Northrop F-5 was designed to be a humble fighter, but there was nothing humble about this masterpiece.”

[@thesovietvorona1007]

It’s actually so close to me as an aircraft that I designed a model trying to modernize even further than the F-20 was.

[@thesovietvorona1007]

Fun fact as I’m deeper in. First F-5 was a CF-5 kinda and that was flying in the 60s!

[@thesovietvorona1007]

I lied. First F-5 flight was unbelievably early, 1959!

[@chrishawley4458]

I spent 3 years in Fallon at station weapons 04-07. Loved watching the last F14s, and f-5s.. i also spent most my career in P-3c's... on our way to a det to Lemoore we were delayed due to the same thing, an f18 had run off runway and flipped upside down, the pilot survived due to the canopy grinding away, he was able crawl out from underneath the aircraft. Awesome podcast, no Orion story yet??!!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Not yet.

[@chrishawley4458]

@@FighterPilotPodcast if you ever do a p3, or maintainneer episode, I am a Former Ordie, with a few stories and a love of aviation. If not, please keep cranking these out, they are great fun to listen to

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@chrishawley4458 Current plan is a combined "Maritime Patrol Planes" show on the P-3, -8, and maybe even some historical ones...

[@chrishawley4458]

@@FighterPilotPodcast outstanding, thank you!

[@neroe23]

No love for my boy the X-29 and its reverse wingamabobs. Still an awesome episode, as always.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Yeah, there are a lot of variants out there but we can't cover them all.

[@neroe23]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Absolutely understandable ! No worries, plus X-planes are really a niche subject, even if pretty cool.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@neroe23 Almost worthy of a separate episode!

[@neroe23]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Well, that would be quite the episode I'm sure ! Thanks for taking the time to respond to your fans

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@neroe23 You're quite welcome--I enjoy it!

[@jacksonschadt7573]

As for other movie appearances of the F-5; the Freedom Fighter was featured in Apocalypse Now dropping Naplam, it had a short cameo in 13 Days, and the Tiger II was also in Hot Shots! once again playing as the Adversary along with the T-38.

[@jiceBERG]

One of my favorite fighters, beautiful lines

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

😍

[@RCAvhstape]

When I was growing up I got a toy that looked like an airplane instrument panel and it had a stick that you could "fly". On the front of it was a spring-loaded launcher which would fire off little rubber F-5 glider models when you squeezed the trigger. They were kind of soft so they wouldn't poke your eye out or wreck the furniture. I don't remember what happened to it or even what it was called to look it up, but your talk about building models in the 80s brought back the memory.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

We should scour the internet and sell them on our SHOP page!

[@RCAvhstape]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Yeah, if only I could track it down. There were a lot of cool toys in the 80s that just kind of vanished. They used to sell those Cox piston-engine model planes and helicopters in department stores, we wrecked so many of those.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@RCAvhstape Were those the ones, "U-Control" I think they called it, where you stood in the center and spun around while flying the thing at the end of the string?!

[@RCAvhstape]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Oh yeah, those were (and still are, I think) called "control line" planes, and I think control line flying is still a sport or a hobby. I had a Spitfire with an electric motor in it. It was recharged between flights using a 6 volt lantern battery and it had a really cool camo paint job. There were also free flying models, which were basically doomed to wind up on a roof or in a tree in short order. They used to sell them in K-Mart and everywhere.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@RCAvhstape Back before cell phones stole our souls! Good stuff. I remember finishing a control line flight and being so dizzy from spinning around that I couldn't barely walk straight.

[@patrickchase5614]

F-16 uses the APG-66 and 68 depending on version. Later F-5s (including the Swiss ones) used the APG-69, which was designed for the F-20 and is a bit smaller than either of the F-16 radars. With that said it was a big improvement over previous F-5 radars in that it was a modern (by 80s standards) pulse-doppler set with look-down/shoot-down capability.

[@bodifx]

Brazil is still flying the F-5 for a while, with some very modern upgrades.

[@ryu1940]

I love this bird. It is even in my profile picture!

[@jhill4071]

605th Tactical Control Squadron K-55 Osan, Korea. 1956 F-86 F Sabre base. Pilot's had this RTB air show thing about the pattern. In trail..usually a flight of 4 and the lead would enter the dog leg at a specific spot with a sharp 60 degree bank and then his wing would do the "exact same thing" at the exact same spot and 3 and 4 would match it. Lead would then snap sharply left onto the base leg and then snap another steep bank at the down wind turn. His wing would snap turn at the exact same point as the lead as did 3 and 4 and I mean exactly It was great and we knew they were doing it for us.

[@patrickchase5614]

The "coke-bottle design" is an application of the area rule. The waist of the plane is tapered to offset the cross-sectional area of the wings, and thereby ensure that the cross-section increases (and then decreases) as gradually as possible along the length of the aircraft. Doing so reduces transonic wave drag. The century-series fighters also show pronounced area-ruling, especially the Delta Dagger/Dart, Starfigher, and Thud. You can see examples of subtle area-ruling in more modern aircraft. For example the F-16 has some noticeable mid-body taper, and manner in which the F-14's center fuselage tapers into the "tunnel" achieves a similar end (the air intakes don't "count" against the cross-sectional area btw). For the most part current practice seems to be to brute-force through the transonic region as quickly as possible using sheer engine thrust, perhaps with from a "dip" maneuver. Once you're past M1.2 or so the traditional area rule doesn't matter as much.

[@mkii1964]

Jello/Sunshine - another excellent podcast!!! Of course everyone knows “the Mig-28 does have a problem with it’s inverted flight tanks. It won’t do a negative G push over....” ;)

[@vtwinbuilder3129]

*Cough* Bullshit!

[@doncalypso]

I was 20 minutes into the original KZbin podcast when I got the notification about this re-upload.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Apologies, we had a technical issue at the end of that version.

[@doncalypso]

@@FighterPilotPodcast it's all good.... I really enjoyed this episode. It would be nice to see what an F-5 derivative with a GE F414 engine, HOTAS, a glass cockpit, and AESA radar would be able to do.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@doncalypso unfortunately, the F-20 was cancelled.

[@doncalypso]

@@FighterPilotPodcast yeah... but a rebooted "F-20 Mk. II" would definitely make for a handy adversary training aircraft though, as well as a good budget fighter for allied nations that don't have the finances to afford F-16s or F/A-18s.

[@nobodyspecial7185]

Worked on them at Grumman in Saint Augustine. Great bird.

[@freddykrueger6571]

one of the nicest looking aircraft.

[@vtwinbuilder3129]

Jello, We really need an episode on flying the A-4 Skyhawk, another amazing, little fighter jet. It might be difficult for you to find one but it would be cool if you got a pilot that flew A-4’s in the fleet off of a carrier as opposed to someone who flew them at NFWS. That said any A-4 pilot would be cool.

[@michaelhazuda2703]

Also one of our VIPER pilots in the 302FS at Luke AFB Mike " VIDA" Blue actually flew that Black F-5 in TopGun! I think he was an American Airlines Capt! Super Guy!

[@thetreblerebel]

The F5 was the best fighter of its era in design. If the AF would of embraced it, it would of served brilliantly as it did for many countries..more than 20.. But..the AF was wrong by judging it by its size.

[@TheAschwittek]

I think the same thing. I guess life is not without a sense of irony. No one really explored the performance of the aircraft until after it's official active service. detractors of the aircraft said it was under powered, but power was not the point of the aircraft, it wasn't a pure energy fighter, it was too light and small for that, one would think the AF at the time would have embraced the low operating cost of the aircraft like the navy did with the A-4

[@dmutant2635]

F-5 is a nice looking plane. No ifs, ands, or buts. Apocalypse Now used the F-5 in a couple of scenes. Philippine Air Force.

[@dutchbrotherfan1284]

I remember being at the California Capital Airshow and a Fallon F-5 was on static display. The pilot call sign was “ Grind” he said he wished they could put on a display with the F-5 as it’s a hot jet

[@Magpie4000]

Vietnam name - Skoshi Tiger "Little Tiger"

[@phamanh30926]

Sorry skoshi is not a Vietnamese word

[@anngo4140]

@@phamanh30926 They just call it the F-5 too.

[@silverpairaducks]

Thats japanese

[@PringphotographyDyndnsOrg1]

No one's been this close before!

[@_Winterz]

Great as always!

[@Fast85FoxGT]

The F-5C variant was a modified A that had a fuel probe, some extra armor and pylons for ordnance when it was evaluated in Vietnam.

[@couchfighter]

I watched you on aircrew! awesome!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

👍😎

[@gregory.chalenko]

Wow, another fun fact I unexpectedly learned from this podcast - the reason for the "hourglass shape" of the fuselage. I've just came across this article which explains the idea in details: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_rule If it wasn't for this episode, I wouldn't even stop to read it!

[@alaskanmarine1]

Should bring in Dave “Bio” Baranek he flew in that F-5F in the movie Top Gun. Also a former Topgun instructor and Tomcat RIO. He has a great book called TopGun days.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Funny you should mention it--I just sat down with Bio in Orlando a couple days ago. He gave me that book and I agreed to help him promote his next, due out in Spring of '20.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Funny you should mention it--I just sat down with Bio in Orlando a couple days ago. He gave me that book and I agreed to help him promote his next, due out in Spring of '20.

[@anngo4140]

You say F-5 but all I see is the Mig-28 in the background.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

🤪

[@LRRPFco52]

F-16A had the APG-66, F-16C got the much better APG-68. ETA: You updated at the end.

[@LtColDaddy71]

As a triple masters degree holder, I’ll say this, I didn’t pay a dime for any of my college. If I would have been required to pay my own way, I would not have done it. The biggest waste of money. My kids will go to college. Hopefully we’ll rooted in common sense when the time comes. It’s what you do to fill in the time while you get a little older.

[@D0cJekyll]

Get CW Lemoine for the aggressor interview.

[@vtwinbuilder3129]

A. I. I’ve been wondering if Jello and C W know each other.

[@PringphotographyDyndnsOrg1]

Faceshot still flies privately he recently flew the racing P51 Strega recently and won the unlimited cup, also there is a unique variant... F-5 SSBD which I take care of

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Very cool--perhaps we need to get Faceshot on the show!

[@PringphotographyDyndnsOrg1]

@@FighterPilotPodcast that would be amazing!

[@het61yt]

I love the F-5 watching top gun part of me was always rooting for it. I'm also one of the few people that are kinda meh on the F-14 Being Canadian F/A 18 all the way.

[@michaelmulligan0]

Is the flying pay reducing based on rank or service (or both)?

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Years of service only.

[@yxeaviationphotog]

Model building?! I'm all over that!

[@philipmoll7459]

They were the thunderbirds for a time too

[@wyskass861]

It's much like the Korean FA-50 of today. A light affordable jet, and trainers.

[@vtwinbuilder3129]

The F-5 doesn’t bleed energy below 300 knots like the MiG 28 however it does have one flaw with it’s inverted flight tanks, it won’t do a negative G pushover..... You’re welcome.

[@MongooseTacticool]

I like the F-5 and I think its big brother F-20 would have been awesome!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Gotta hope someone made a smart decision in not buying it but the rest of us may never know.

[@MongooseTacticool]

@@FighterPilotPodcast yes, at least the last prototype is hanging in the LA Science Center :)

[@AvengerII]

@@FighterPilotPodcast The USAF made the right decision in the long run. The F-5 lineage was a dead-end for meaningful upgrades. There were very good technical and logistic reasons for not putting the F-20 into production. Beautiful plane, yeah, but the future of PRACTICAL frontline military aviation it was not! There's a reason the F-5 was restricted to training in the US. It was never going to be developed into a credibly-ranged fighter, let alone a medium range plane, and it took 20 years AFTER the plane first flew for electronics to miniaturize enough to fit into a reprofiled shark nose and even then it was just matching F-16A level avionics and the F-16C was just around the corner and was going to be even better than the F-16A. Without drastically redesigning the plane -- much more than the minimal airframe changes of the F-20 --, it was not going to be any more than a point defense fighter. There have been great point defense fighters -- the Spitfire for one(!) -- but you can't take the war to the enemy with a plane that you can only fly around the block! You can defend your aerodome with a PD fighter but that's it. That was a HUGE issue in World War II, especially for bombers that needed escorts to survive enemy interceptors. Heavy bombers (B-17s and other B-whatevers) flew for about a year and suffered huge losses before a reliable escort fighter arrived that COULD go the distance to Berlin and back. Technically, there WERE 2 fighters (P-47, P-38) that could have done the job but they were expensive and had technical issues that were difficult to resolve. What arrived (P-51) in late 1943 was both reliable AND had the range performance necessary. The F-5 simply doesn't have the range and the design has a bunch of limitations which were highlighted by the F-20. It was never going to be a high-performance attack plane and was limited in bomb loads because of the wing design and layout of the landing gear. The F-16 had much better payload/range performance than the F-20. The all-around greater versatility of the F-16 (ESPECIALLY as a multirole/ground attack aircraft) and its in-production status sealed the F-20's fate. I think in the US only Top Gun (and MAYBE the ANG until someone who understood fighter design highlighted the F-20's very limited range and attack capability) seriously wanted the F-20 and that wasn't going to happen without a commitment from the USAF. The foreign market was looking for the seal of approval from USAF for the F-20 and they wouldn't commit to it unless USAF bought F-20s which it did not. The F-20 was the F-5 to the Nth degree but even with a later technology engine the increase in range on internal fuel was only 10% for a plane that could literally fly around the block and back just before running of fuel. The F-20 was significantly heavier than the F-5E (2000lbs at least) and the wing didn't grow along with the weight meaning the wing loading grew as well. They needed to do magic on the wing or refine the LERX further (which WAS discussed for the production F-20A) and even then it didn't match the max or sustained turn rates of the F-16. The increased wing loading had an impact on performance even if the engine thrust was 70% greater. They were shooting for an 18,000lb thrust F404 for the production F-20 which was never built. As it was, none of the F-20s built were identical because there were staged improvements between the planes. They all flew with 17,000lb thrust engines. The first F-20 was actually built to the F-5G standard (minimal changes from the F-5E) where the major change was the engine. It didn't have the avionics and panoramic canopy of the other 2 finished prototypes; the canopy (a standard F-5E model) is how you tell the #1 F-20 (which crashed) from the other 2 F-20s in photos.

[@billcramer9047]

The south Vietnam Air force flew a model of these I think

[@jameshewitt8828]

The glorious Mig 28

[@mikeg2092]

Apocalypse Now has F-5s drop the napalm for the Ride of the Valkyries helo scene. Pretty sure their Philippino AF

[@quizels0695]

I absolutely love the F-5 its my profile picture i also have a video of it shooting with cannons at my channel

[@michaelhazuda2703]

U need to have someone who flew the E and F model at Williams Afb cuz WE reconfigured ALL the time! NOT just Aggressors Idiot's! I being a crew chief on them for 8 years as a GI and a Civilian for NWASI at Willie spent alit of fun times working them and actually got 2 rides once in a B model and 1 in an F model going to Miramar TDY for a week! What a FLIPPING blast! I also worked for Dyncorp on the T-38s later!Also did a few months at Yuma in 401st on the F-5 Aggressors there! Great Times!

[@Mike41919]

Umm.... Not one to nit pick but pretty sure that's a mig 28

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

🤣

[@philipmoll7459]

Too bad the Tigershark wasn't produced

[@nobodyspecial7185]

Schochi tiger.

[@modscientist9793]

Drool cup!!! 😂😂😂😂😂

[@stephenfowler4115]

The requirement of a college degree for officers may be a lot of things but logical is not one of them. History is replete with examples of capable individuals who had little or no formal education. It's more of a convenience for the government than a logical conclusion.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

More of a "standard" than convenience, I'd say.