Guide to Marxist Economics - Ep 14. Wages, Time & piece wages, taylorism, fordism etc.

[@Cyborg_Marxist]

Its a good day when finbol uploads.

[@trosling]

In the name of the proletariat, I claim this first comment. Keep up the good work, comrade.

[@ygbarelli]

I'm a Brazilian trying to understand communism in the USA. I'm impressed by how weak communist ideas seem to be, even on the internet in your country. In Brazil, we have many large KZbin channels that openly promote communism, such as "História Cabeluda," "Jones Manoel," and "Ian Neves." I wish you all the best in this struggle

[@MrJekken]

In Australia we have zero hour contracts thats called 'casual labour.' This is why official unemployment statistics of governments are so dishonest since they don't count underemployment.

[@Betweoxwitegan]

Underemployment also means overqualified employment, i.e. I have a PH.D in Physics but work as a waiter. So you should be more specific but it doesn't really matter, in your comment "time-related underemployment" would be more correct but I'm just being obnoxiously pedantic

[@MrJekken]

@@Betweoxwitegan I agree with you completely

[@jakusama8397]

Yeah I was going to mention this

[@sidr2503]

wow i watched the other 13 episodes a couple weeks ago and had no clue this series was still ongoing! really love this! do you think you could maybe do an episode specifically analyzing the tendency of the rate of profit to fall in a macro sense and compare marx's initial idea of this to what current marxian theories on the final scenario of capitalism's crisis might look like? i know its a specific topic but you seem actually educated enough to handle it and its a topic im fascinated with but a lot of the current stuff on is either hard to find or super economics math technical

[@user24852-w]

Always excited for new Finbol

[@sinthoras1917]

Always good to go over something again

[@gorgenfol]

All praise the algorithm that many more may see this.

[@numbersix8919]

Thanks Fin Bol 🌟

[@martindiaries]

Favourite series 🍀❤️💯

[@NotKnafo]

zero hour contract is also called the gig economy

[@fun_ghoul]

No. "Gig economy" is essentially day labour, where you don't have an employer per se. "Zero hour contract" is when you're actually hired to a particular job at a particular wage or salary, and have to maintain "availability" for your employer during particular days and times, but there's no guarantee that they'll even call you in.

[@NotKnafo]

@@fun_ghoul its the same though there is a difference in that the gig economy ask the worker to bring his own means of production

[@fun_ghoul]

@@NotKnafo No, it's not the same. "Zero hours contract" requires workers to be ready to be called in at the drop of a hat, which precludes them seeking paid work elsewhere. Gig economy doesn't care if you show up or not, because their model uses bonuses to incentivize enough workers to show up during times of peak demand.

[@anglo-irishbolshevik3425]

Zero hour contracts are what they're called in the UK and they're very prevalent.

[@Betweoxwitegan]

In Ireland we have zero hour contracts too but there are regulations such as the right to a minimum of 15 hours work a week after 12 months employment and paid for their labour availability for 3 days if no work was assigned that week

[@shayan99999]

For some rural proletarians in my country, the wage system is still by the day i.e., a rural proletarian is hired by a landlord to work the day (for however long it takes, sometimes as much as 14 hours) and then given a wage at the end of the day. The exploitation of some rural proletarians is so blatantly obvious that it borders on the comical. For example, a tea worker generally is paid after a day's labor the equivalent of roughly 2 dollars while the price of a cup of tea in some restaurants is as high as 4 or even 6 dollars. The level of exploitation is so hilariously high it'd be hard to miss tbh.

[@mohamedaityoussef9965]

thats depressing af, wages in informal urban sector are also dawgshit but not that bad (still really bad especially if you got some health issues like i do)

[@shayan99999]

@@mohamedaityoussef9965 I don't see it as depressing. Bad wages such as this will further class consciousness within them. And yes, the industrial proletariat has it pretty bad too, but I'd say the condition of the rural proletariat is worse. Last I heard, they still only get to eat one full meal a day, if even that.

[@tormann.m.t3014]

​@@shayan99999 were do you come from?

[@fun_ghoul]

This happens in Canada and the US, albeit not legally. When rich dudes need workers, they either place an ad online or go to (in the States especially) the parking lot of a home renovation store where workers congregate, and offer them a particular amount to work for the day. Often, the employer will then ot/ pay the worker, either on the basis of a purported flaw in the work, or simply rob them. This is possible because the workers are either in the country illegally (US) or are working without the proper work permit (Canada), so don't feel empowered to call the police, Ministry of Labour, etc.

[@shayan99999]

@@tormann.m.t3014 Bangladesh

[@idk_what333]

What's your thoughts on Gonzalo?

[@thefinnishbolshevik2404]

A brave devoted revolutionary who gave his life to the struggle of the working class. Very intelligent thinker, and the leader of his country's revolution. And not only significant for his country, but he also inspired many others. The Nepalese revolution was inspired by him. Though unfortunately revolutions in both countries have suffered temporary defeat. About his specific ideas like "Gonzalo thought", which he said apply to the Peruvian situation, I cannot really comment much. I don't know enough. What is your opinion on him?

[@idk_what333]

@ I see him as a revolutionary, I think the only reason people see him as a, “Homophobe” and a, “Terrorist” (Is also largely to due lies by the Fujimori Fascist government.) is because the PCP lost (Temporarily, the revolution cannot truly stop), the Bolsheviks did the same things as Gonzalo along with Mao, I personally don’t care if the leeches of society such as landlords die or the Bourgeoisie, I think positive of him. Nice videos by the way.

[@Cyborg_Marxist]

⁠@@idk_what333the last thing landlords heard before they got dealt with in china was red sun in the sky blasting.

[@slipknotboy555]

@@idk_what333 Okay, hopefully the second time's the charm, because YT removed my comment (it doesn't appear under "newest first," either). Haha, ofc. My problems with him and the SP have zero to do with those things. Honestly, I do think there's a lot of truth to what FinnBol said, tbc. I certainly do not shit on the SP, or even Gonzalo, ENTIRELY. That said, there were some huge problems. The Bolsheviks (and Mao) absolutely did NOT do the same things that Gonzalo (et al.) did in some important areas. The SP, multiple times, apparently engaged in actual persecution, oppression, and even slaughter of innocent peasants, and in some of the areas they took over, etc.* The SP was also incredibly cult-like, as revealed in their own documents. It was all about praising Gonzalo, Gonzalo being the greatest person ever, etc. In their own official documents. Gonzalo himself not only approved of this, he fostered and instilled this. [And no, this is not comparable to say, Stalin, who actively discouraged this kind of BS. Even much more mild forms of it, or milder similar things.] There are also some very disturbing views that warrant mentioning. To Gonzalo (et al.), the spilling of blood IN GENERAL was a good thing, was a virtue. Death in itself was a good thing. Again, expressed in their own statements, propaganda, etc. These are not things the Bolsheviks, the Chinese revolutionaries, etc., engaged in or embraced. Actually, these are things they were quite clearly against. Some people reject it out of hand**, but BadEmpanada's video on the Shining Path/Gonzalo is actually pretty decent from what I can tell. It's been a while since I watched it, but still. [* Again, something basically confirmed in their own stuff. A newspaper had Gonzalo bragging about one of the massacres. They simply presented it as a battle to make it sound good. **Largely, perhaps exclusively/nearly exclusively, Gonzaloites]

[@anglo-irishbolshevik3425]

Great work comrade. Are you aware of the M-L KZbinr, Socialism for All. Here's in the process of doing an audio file on Marx's Capital (with commentary along the way). That might sound like a tall order (and it is). As well as that he's produced copious amounts of audio M-L classic texts (with useful commentary).

[@thefinnishbolshevik2404]

Yes I'm aware if his work. I sometimes talk to him about what audiobooks he's working on and what audiobooks I'm working on, so that I don't unnecessarily record something he is already doing.

[@anglo-irishbolshevik3425]

Ok, that's good.

[@slipknotboy555]

Great stuff as always! ~11:24 That's the kind of work you do, comrade? (In the footage? Just curious.) ~15:40 Damn. Of course.

[@thefinnishbolshevik2404]

doing stuff with circuit boards like that and stacking them into racks like that? Yes, I do that all the time. Although this week I've been doing that 16:45. Temporary transfer to another part of the factory.

[@slipknotboy555]

@@thefinnishbolshevik2404 Thanks for the reply! That's interesting to know; in the past, I was always curious about what your job was like. I hope things aren't too bad for you at work! Oh, they have you like, placing components now, for the time being? Which one do you prefer? Also, I just wanna say thank you for the stuff you do. I'm not trying to be a brownnoser or whatever, I legitimately think you might just be the best leftist channel on here (along with people like S4A - though you've been going a lot longer). I think you pretty much always have the correct positions - I don't think I can even think of a time where you truly haven't. You played a significant role in my early political (ML) education, and continue to do so.

[@ariaownsyou]

peak

[@anglo-irishbolshevik3425]

Hello again comrade. Just to let you know I just sent you a direct message via Patreon.

[@skywhauherferne79]

So, labour power and labour are like energy and work done.

[@thefinnishbolshevik2404]

labor power is the capacity to work, not work done.

[@skywhauherferne79]

@@thefinnishbolshevik2404 Well yeah, that's what I meant. Energy is the capacity to do work so it is like labour power. Work done is the amount of energy actually used so it is like labour.

[@indollarwetrust]

A bit irrelevant here but are you going to continue the sovet architecture and urban planning in the near futurer? No pressure btw

[@thefinnishbolshevik2404]

I am

[@Mindryon]

Slight nitpick, at 9:50 "actual wage" should be "relative wage", yes? Even if nominal, or even real wage, has gone up, the relative wage is more important in the long run

[@thefinnishbolshevik2404]

well, my intention was to say that the real wage has declined because the worker is receiving less for his work. He works much faster, but receives only slightly more in compensation.

[@mohamedaityoussef9965]

thank god

[@Luka__1]

Fuck giving people wages and taxing them, just make everything free and remove money altogether and everyone can just do what they're good at without having to worry about the money upkeep of things like running the government etc.

[@JohnT.4321]

It not going to happen. All capitalist governments, being the most important and powerful tool for the capitalists, maintain order on their respected societies in order to maximize profits through policies, propaganda and laws and guess who pays little to none in taxes. As a result, the majority of people in those societies cannot imagine on not having a capitalist or petty capitalist owning the means of production in order to receive a wage or salary. The video was very clear on where exploitation occurs which is at the point of production which the majority of people don't understand.

[@hime273]

And you think people are still gonna work in that case?😂😂 WTF

[@JohnT.4321]

@@hime273 I know where that concept comes from. There are those that believe that when people are bored enough, they would go to work. However, the work force would be too small for society to function as a whole. Moreover, there has to be a central directing authority in planning what labor has to be done and to measures labor time of each worker in order that the worker gets the full value from his/her labor. Having a labor account, a worker could exchange parts of their labor time credits for products from the social store. This would require a different non circulating currency. There are many arguments on what that central directing authority would consist of but ruling out a state would be a mistake IMO. A central directing labor organization could handle the economic aspect in society while the state protects society from those who would destroy the socialist experiment as they did with the USSR. Lets just say that the labor organization can keep in check the political state in the same way the capitalist keeps their governments in check, but the capitalists do it in different forms and ways at the detriment of ordinary people.

[@fun_ghoul]

@@JohnT.4321 You don't get it. People hate work now because the conditions needed for capitalists to profit make the work awful. If we didn't have to create a surplus, and if the "surplus army of labour" were in fact labouring instead of being locked out of paid work as a threat to those who have jobs, people wouldn't view work as a horrible thing they're compelled to do in order to survive.

[@JohnT.4321]

@@fun_ghoul I do get it. People hate work due to capitalists non ending desire to increase their profits. I never wrote that surpluses would be created in a socialist society. Nor did I write that there would be a surplus army of labor. Socialism is suppose to nip both in the bud. I was trying to explain that there has to be an accounting of workers labor time in which those credits can be exchange for products at the social store. That accounting also includes the labor time of products produced which includes minutes and seconds. This is an example: In one hour at some factory 1,000 products are produced, boxed and sent to the social store. That would be around 16 seconds for each product produced--1000/60. Of course you have to add labor time by taking in account for boxing, shipping, receiving, putting the products on the shelves and those at check out. Now the question is how many seconds would a worker exchange for the product from his account to receive the product? I would guess as much as 30 seconds more or less. Since there is no profit involved, the product remains around at 16 seconds unless there is improvement in production which would lower the time of products produced.

[@comrade_liam5466]

No but Finnish, you don’t understand. *everyone* is paid the *same* in *true* communism

[@hime273]

Oh right, because "True Communism" is totally different than All Communist societies in history.🙄