Why Charging By The Hour Doesn't Make Sense

[@enriquez9386]

“Here’s the deal, I work really fast. I’m being punished for being efficient.” Me to my wife after I finished in 33 seconds

[@Jordando323]

🤣🤣👌

[@stndndrwr34]

This is why men have self esteem issues. You brag about 33 seconds and set unrealistic goals for people

[@robroy1174]

Efficient wasn't the word she used though.

[@listenhere6248]

Sir..sir.. I was not expecting this 😂😂☠️..

[@lucidfry1332]

Did she get off tho

[@SicQueldorei]

This is a concept I have to explain fairly regularly to my customers. I own an automotive repair shop. We charge hourly based on how long a job is supposed to take according to industry standard labor guides. If a job calls for 2 hours and it takes me 3, you pay 2 hours. If that same job takes me 5 minutes, you still pay 2 hours. Charging this way serves 2 purposes. First it protects the consumer from overpaying for a job because a technician decided to drag his feet. Secondly it rewards efficient and experienced technicians who can complete a job faster than expected.

[@Deeznutz...]

Thank you for helping me understand

[@kalsven]

It doesn't protect the consumer. It's admirable you say you'll charge 2 if it takes 3, but 99% of shops dont, and no one is monitoring shops to make sure they're charging the right amount of time. It protects the shop. If something doesn't take long, they make money. If it takes longer, they still make money. It's the same reason a Dr office charges you when you don't show. "Cause that time could've gone to another person". Except that slot is still 100% going to be filled by other work, but now you're making a guaranteed profit. Mechanic is also the only profession where you can get away with charging someone to fix something without actually fixing anything.

[@SicQueldorei]

It's a shame that you've had that kind of negative experience with your local shops. Sadly, dishonesty is everywhere. I'd recommend finding a reputable facility that you trust. They're out there, just few and far between. Also, there are multiple free resources available to US based consumers to help you make good decisions when it comes to automotive repair. I'll leave you with a few tips. 1. Always get more than one estimate. Make sure they tell you what brand parts they'll be using and ask what their labor rate is. 2. Never replace a part the shop can't PROVE is faulty. All to often I hear of other shops saying something like "We need to start with this...". No, they can either perform a complete and correct diagnosis or they can't. Sadly, most can't. 3. Reading codes with a little handheld is NOT a diagnostic. If somebody simply checks codes then tries to sell you something, they're guessing. Their guess may be right sometimes, but when it's not you'll be the one stuck holding the bag.

[@andrecostermans7109]

About experienced and efficient crafts(wo)men . Looking at 100 of these 'skilled' peoples , say 50 of them will do , 25 are just greedy and fail in their working-qualities and the applied materials and the last 25 craftsmen still not yet on that high level of knowledge . Those 50% , eager for getting paid as the first 50% despite their lack of competence . And that is truly a big concern for most customers

[@AlejandroSanchez-xs4uq]

Don’t forget the part that if you can do a 2 hour job in 30 minutes, theyre paying for your knowledge, talent, and experience, in completing a job that takes longer in less time and efficiently.

[@slappy8941]

My dad used to work for a construction company that offered very good bonuses for meeting the time, quality, and budget requirements, but after he started maxing out his bonuses, they decided that they were paying him too much, even though he could get a restaurant up and running twice as fast as the other superintendents, so they raised the standards and lowered the bonuses. The effect this had across the company was that everybody just decided to forget about the bonuses, and do the work at whatever Pace they felt like, so that production fell by a significant margin. It never fails that any time you meet a company's expectations, they just raise the bar and lower the incentive.

[@Deadlyaztec27]

Yep bosses ALWAYS choose to think "Wow, are number's are great... this job must be easy, let's stop being so generous since people keep reaching for them and actually getting them". They always turn the bonuses into a "arcade claw machine" where the amount of effort to get something is titanic and BS

[@JennieG-ed8ef]

This is exactly how Verizon grew so fast in the mobile field. When I started we had to get 5 activations a month and then the bonus pay started, and increased in % every couple of activations. My bonuses were double my pay and I had plenty of overtime. Then it went to 15 then 20 when I left in 2012 it was up to 70 a month to keep your job. No appreciation for the employees that did the work.

[@jackieschuler]

You’re absolutely right so you’re gonna get fucked either way. welcome to corporate greed America capitalism. Great, isn’t it?

[@jackieschuler]

@@JennieG-ed8ef welcome to capitalism

[@Da_Mewster]

Prospect theory at work. When someone lowers the expected reward or increases the expected cost, people tend to get angry. Thinking this way also creates an us vs them mentality which hurts synergy.

[@natk1105]

I heard someone describe this as, you're not just paying for the time it took to physically do the task. You're also paying for all the years it took to get this good at doing the task.

[@possum9827]

Wtf is that reasoning

[@sportmaniac10]

@@possum9827if you’re paying a professional you’re paying more money because of how long it took them to get there. You could pay an amateur who just started and it’d be cheaper because they don’t have a name or a branding set for themselves

[@Coltxx]

@@possum9827 What do you mean? You pay for experience.

[@possum9827]

@@Coltxx yes I get it. What I meant to say was is experience the only factor that you can over charge someone?

[@jacquestube]

I understand where you're coming from I don't necessarily agree that it's always overcharging though ​@@possum9827

[@theprovoked321]

Every hourly worker just shed an invisible tear.

[@Eatoakland8500]

Sure did

[@nathanbradley259]

Invisible

[@klimmesil9585]

That's why I don't accept hourly rates

[@luke8702]

When your young like me you don't have many options

[@protoborg]

Nope

[@whattosay385]

You right there exposed the whole consulting business model.

[@hen-rex]

It's not exactly a secret why consultant services are generally very expensive, and does not necessarily provide a lot of value. But it sure provides a lot of pages and nice graphics and graphs and charts.

[@jamesbarbour8400]

Yep - it's all a big con. Some people are just so gullible

[@matthewgarner8728]

Thats every business modal. Why you think road construction takes so long?

[@stonep11]

@@hen-rexcompanies hire consultants because they can push the blame somewhere else. No one gets mad at you when you pay IBM $10M and get nowhere, BUT if they pay you $300k to handle it internally with your own team and things don’t happen, now it’s a problem.

[@AnarexicSumo]

@@stonep11Braindead take. Companies hire consultants because sometimes problems arise that require experts you don’t already have on staff. Sometimes they get ripped off but that doesn’t make all of consulting a ripoff. Also in your scenario no blame is passed. Consultants don’t make decisions for companies, they consult, and the liability falls on the one making the decision. Also yeah, people do get mad when you spend $10M when you could have spent $300k.

[@oseghaleokoyomon6921]

Charging by the hour punishes me more for being good...I FELT THAT🙏🏿🔥🔥

[@gaming4K]

The only thing i used to count hour for is to not go under a certain amount. 😂 If your goal is let's say $20 for an hour you don't have to continue the things that take long and make little money.

[@loliluxe]

This is a very strong argument for salaried positions for high value candidates.

[@redscorpion9325]

Yea the other guy makes mo sense 🤦🏽‍♂️how you going to charge by the Hour for a Logo,Im sure they charge a direct price and then come up with the logo if he charges by the Hour than they Dude can take ling and charge more like he said 😂

[@shootaman2]

Depends on your industry.

[@esexavo]

hes a noob business man hourly plus performance base contract also an option

[@EnCroissant427]

I love a teacher that teaches their student to think critically. I was in debate in highschool, and I remember one particular debate where she had us choose a side, and then switched it up on us by having us argue on behalf of our opposing arguement. I had to advocate the Patiot Act. I'll never forget Ms. Fallon or her lessons.

[@EJBZ1]

I like that! 💡

[@hermitkrab792]

That's a good experiment. Too bad most debates are just people looking for "gotcha moments" and strawmanning the other side's positions.

[@chloe54251]

my dad is a generator tech. he said if youre getting paid hourly, you wanna take as long as you can on a job. if youre getting commission, then you wanna get it done as efficiently and as fast as possible

[@Luis-ou9fn]

So your dad lazy and self interested? I’d hate to hire a construction worker and see him slacking off just because I’m paying him by the hour.

[@jonathangarzon2798]

​@Luis-ou9lol you are incentivizing it taking longer by paying hourly. How do you not understand this basic principle?

[@Floedekage]

This is way to simplified and is far from true for every job. A parson in sales paid by commission is sure to upsell you or sell you stuff you don't need. A person working in a factory, in service or retail where the work is constant and might have overtime would be stupid not to be paid by the hour. There's not a one-fits-all solution to this.

[@xLuis89x]

@@Luis-ou9fn what I take from it is not exactly that he is lazy , but he does just the ammount of effort needed to get the job done, if someone is paid hourly, and does the job earlier what does he get most of the time? more work, but is still paid the same, with maybe a pat on the back or something like that. So you put in more effort, get paid less but still get more exausted, yeah, great way to live huh?

[@Luis-ou9fn]

@@xLuis89x nobody said you have to kill your self, but quite clearly he just said he’d rather slack off than just do the work required to get paid more hours. A proper boss also rewards efficient workers with better salary.

[@newaccount9055]

Here is the problem. The business owner values his time but he doesn't value yours.

[@thefutur]

It’s your job to help them understand this.

[@notbrianbradley]

Well, in the aggregate I'd say generally they value the result, but many business owners understand you need people with expertise & work ethic and that has a cost that is worth the trade. That's where, as @The Futur seemed to imply, you have to show that you are, indeed, worth that trade.

[@Jozamendo]

This is exactly what people need to realize is why they pay scraps to employees. 🤷

[@hossosplitternacken7819]

iam schocked

[@outworkyouschiffert2685]

Except real world, u pay someone a lump sum to make this logo with a time table/deadline. There r penalties for taking longer.

[@stevepicray8438]

I had a job where they told me that if I finish my work early, they will give me more work to keep me there 40 hours. I said, "You just disincentivized me to work faster."

[@darthrubik8384]

So you failed math or you just don't want money?

[@stevepicray8438]

@@darthrubik8384 Let me try explaining another way. Let's say I do X work for which they pay me $50K. They suppose that it will take me 40 hours to do X work. But it only takes me 35 hours, so they give me XY work (where Y is 5 extra hrs of work) for which I now make....$50K.

[@TK-7193]

@@darthrubik8384 you must have failed math, or cant read. the same or more work, he gets paid the same. work normal, not harder.

[@darthrubik8384]

@@TK-7193 or go get a different job. For you, preferably one without the handling of numbers 🤡

[@TK-7193]

@@darthrubik8384 so, you are paid to work a certain amount of hours, and are given a certain amount of work. if you so choose to be goody two shoes and do more work, you should be paid more too, right? well thats not whats happening. you do more work, for the same pay. there is no reason to do more work than needed. you sound like you enjoy being taken advatage of. but i mean, whatever floats your boat.

[@WetOlde]

A bile mechanic once said to me: you don’t pay for my time. You pay for the time i saved you.

[@alejandromata825]

A bile mechanic? 😂 Ok, we’ll take it, I can see cheap customers or people making us like that 😂

[@Querin_TAO]

❤❤❤

[@jenkem4464]

Someone charges you to make you vomit?

[@AKOverkill]

Please tell us what you meant lol

[@Kat_97]

Car propably. Car is bil in Scandinavian at least

[@GFSFC-k9n]

Had a client tell me the same argument after I fell a massive tree that stood in between his 2 buildings. He argued that he paid me more than a surgeon cost to cut the tree. I told him he didn’t pay me to cut the tree, he paid me to guarantee it didn’t fall on one of his buildings. Its like a lightbulb went on. From there on I did all his landscaping at all his buildings and we are still friends 10+ years later. Skill costs money.

[@ribbon_dye]

Well duh. Who pays a surgeon to cut down a tree?

[@hope3830]

@@ribbon_dyetree surgeons are people who cut branches off trees

[@ekkehard8]

​@@ribbon_dye I do 🤕

[@philliph8991]

You apparently missed the point of this....ugh

[@MrShadowswrath]

​@ribbon_dye given how long it takes to cut down with a scalpel, they sure as hell would want to be paid hourly

[@iconiccreations2492]

"You're not paying for my time. You are paying for my talent, skills and experience."

[@voltagestorm1787]

A little redundant, skill is a product of talent, experience, and hard work

[@randobad]

Imagination.

[@tmac2797]

​@@voltagestorm1787I think he's just trying to make a point

[@cloverleaf5645]

⁠@@voltagestorm1787is an ironic statement. Repetition is intentional

[@baconsuzy]

I paint scenery and it only takes me longer, if there is fussy lettering. I feel funny saying that something that I painted on the stage only took a few hours. The weeks of planning and research on what I was going to paint and the transporting of my supplies take some of the time.

[@ZL1Rocket]

The Patient asks the Dentist how much to pull his bad tooth. 🦷 The Dentist says it will be $250. The Patient says that’s outrageous! How long will it take? The Dentist says it will take about a minute. The Patient is now even more angry and says charging $250 for a minute’s worth of work is insane! The Dentist says to the Patient….Well, if it’s the amount of time to pull the tooth that you’re upset about, I can take as long as you like.

[@thefutur]

Nice one.

[@PranavKumar-dd2xo]

Bro that's a damn costly dentist 😅

[@Asrdasa]

But this exactly illustrates why hourly rate makes sense in certain kinds of services. True, hourly billing pribably doesn’t make sense for dental services (at least for tooth extractions) because the amount of time it takes to perform the service is not considered to be an adequate reflection of the value of the services, and the time it takes to pull out a tooth is pretty predictable. And this is exactly why a lot of services, dental services included, AREN’T being charged by the hour! I mean duh, the humor apparently seems to try to be smart and cheeky but that IS exactly why in the real world dental services are not typically being charged by the hour. So what is it that you are actually satirizing and poking fun at here? The hourly billing is the norm in certain other industries because for those the amount of time spent is considered to adequately reflect the amount and value of the work. Or it could be that in certain situations, the service provider is simply unwilling to take on the risk of a project taking way longer than originally expected, and the hourly billing is just a risk allocation mechanism that results from the service provider and client’s negotiations.

[@evanthibodeaux5172]

​@@thefuturwho asked that question

[@denver5093]

My guy, I don't think any sane person will ask "how"... But why? Don't make up things for likes

[@DanielSturge]

When I was into grapic design I use to tell my clients when they asked for price. Time, quality, and price. You pick 2 and it dictates the 3rd

[@sberryscake]

Perfect

[@OrangutanJ4488]

This is why you have a lot of workers who don’t do squat at their jobs. They get more work when they do their work quickly. It’s a model of punishment as the guy says. I was the boss of a crew for awhile and I told them that I don’t care what they do with their extra time as long as their work was done. That was the most efficient crew I’ve ever seen.

[@jackwaycombe]

I used a similar tactic on a team I managed. Despite an increase in efficiency, my anally-retentive boss was so incensed at employees getting "something for nothing" he fired me and happily settled for lower efficiency.

[@munchcat]

We had a similar situation at one site when I worked security. We had 5 buildings between 2 patrollers and 2 desk employees. The patrols were difficult to get done in time, but as long as they got DONE with us making all the tag markers and such, we could hang out and relax in the back room as long as we responded to calls from the desk. It sounds weird, but the client said we were the most productive team they've had XD

[@vandalg282]

Then you fail to understand your job title and or description of it. That's like a manager saying "Ok I'm done with everything today"...Everything? no possible way. And even if, you're legally obligated to get paid for any extra work done...if you have a legal job.

[@dylwaybake]

Not many jobs would let this slide, and it would be known most businesses have a certain clock in or clock out time. If not, they have a time when their business closes. Otherwise, they are a yearly/salary employee. I can’t think of many jobs that would let you work muuuch longer hours for the same result as just a few hours. Not off the top of my head.

[@dylwaybake]

@@vandalg282yeah what job could allow this without the business knowing or finding out they’re paying you longer/more than other workers for the same result.

[@pacmonkruz9846]

This is my biggest problem with hourly jobs , it makes me even sleepy just thinking about it

[@Madi_Ernar]

It can be used the right way, if I make something in 3 hours and charge a 100, but you make it in 2 and charge 150 or even 175, most will choose you. F.e. look at the lawyers, top professionals have ridiculous hourly rates.

[@monicamolina2221]

Wow 🤯

[@josephan6953]

Don’t forget about customer service jobs… If I could just serve one table immaculately and collect my pay for the entire shift and go home, I would love to lol

[@Mythicalgoon]

​@@Madi_Ernar lawyers is a terrible example as they are the ones who benefit from the hourly wage

[@Madi_Ernar]

@@Mythicalgoon ok, private investigators

[@Broseidon09]

At amazon i used to get paid my full 10 hour shifts paid even if i finished 2-3 hours early. After some months they would start giving me extra work since i was done early until i completed my 10 hours so i started slowing down waaaaaay more

[@shawnparenteau9395]

I had the same job, I told them straight up I wasn’t going to help other people at the end of my shifts. Why would I be punished for working faster

[@intergalacticdegengypsy6135]

How do u finish shift work early? I thought u had to do ur hrs no matter what.

[@josephmother2659]

@@intergalacticdegengypsy6135it depends what your responsibilities are because they probably are not needed every minute of the day if they get a certain task completed before closing or scheduled time out

[@bal917]

Did you ever finish early after slowing down or do you just get less work but take all day every day? I work for Amazon too

[@looper964]

How do you finish? This sounds like BS

[@KrispyBarbarian]

Thers that old joke/story where a painter made a beautiful painting of someone in just a few minutes, and that person complained about the price, and painter said that he learned for 30 years to be able to make this kind of painting in such a short time so part of that price is for his experience and actually saved waiting time.

[@thecuntyone]

real value comes 100 years after they're dead

[@L6901Malice]

They said it was a doodle by Picasso on a napkin

[@beeldbuijs1003]

He meant it took him 30 years to get famous enough to be able to get away with it 😁

[@jerbil9353]

Reminds me of the lady who said to the concert pianist "I'd give up half my life if I could play like you" And the pianist replied "Ma'am, I did."

[@danielbrowniel]

Thats why healthcare will never be freee, SEE YA

[@josephflannery9015]

As someone who does photography for a living. This is 100% accurate. I can take the photos you wanted in 15 minutes. But clients pay for hourly sessions. If I told someone 300$ for 15 minutes, I wouldn’t have a business, despite being able to get what I needed done.

[@24djparker]

Don’t do hourly. Charge for a certain number of looks/outfit changes. 3 looks $300 5 looks $500 Etc.

[@JacobVersus]

@@24djparker this is the way. i did this for car photography as well.

[@josephflannery9015]

@@24djparker you should 100% charge hourly. 3 looks could take 6 hours. Then on top of it editing time. Plus how would you charge a wedding if not by the hour? Tbh your way is an easy way to underpay yourself.

[@thatguy5391]

​@@josephflannery9015 completely agree with you, I used to record drone videos which wouldn't take too long, so I charged by the job, your job takes longer, so those six hours it took you to take those photos you'll be payed say one hundred dollars per hour guaranteed

[@ryananggoro493]

this why certain job need specific paid not all work have same way to be charged

[@DaddyBeanDaddyBean]

An excavation contractor I know was hired to clean up a huge brush pile; he showed up with several trucks and an excavator with a HUGE claw attachment he had built. After unloading, it took him about ten minutes to load the pile into the trucks, because the claw could get so much in one bite. The client said he wasn't paying the agreed amount because "I didn't think you'd get it done so fast". My buddy immediately started unloading the trucks and putting the brush back where he found it. "Wait, stop, what are you doing??" "You just said the job wasn't worth $X to you anymore, so I'm putting your brush back and you can hire someone else." 😎

[@VState60]

Love it!!

[@krel7160]

Man, as someone who's stuck at work almost all the time and gets maybe a few hours to be able to work on things on his days off, this is the kind of contractor I'd want. Shows up, does the work quickly, asks for his payment, stays on contact in case there's future work. Don't burn the contractors, man, it's not worth it! >:(

[@xenostim]

Did the client end up paying the agreed amount? what a douche

[@DaddyBeanDaddyBean]

@@xenostim Yes, they backtracked in a hurry and agreed the work was worth $X whether it took all day by hand or ten minutes with specialized equipment.

[@NinjaSushi2]

I would have scattered it.

[@tc2241]

My dad was an mechanical engineer and would design on the side for additional income. He would always give an estimate up front. He had two types of clients, those who would say “okay” and talk shop, and those who would exclaim “I could find someone cheaper!”. He would respond, “you sure can, especially if you hire one of my students”, and walk away from the deal. I didn’t understand until I, as a student, took a dev job making almost nothing for a project I was under qualified with an realist turnaround time for my skill set and almost zero budget. Some business owners do not value their own product or respect your time or effort. The more experienced you get, the quicker you spot those types.

[@brownstonecustomcabinetry5309]

I only gave you a thumbs up cuz I couldn't give you five. Spot-on assessment of reality.

[@Anonymous-pv7ob]

@@brownstonecustomcabinetry5309 Don't worry I gave him a thumbs up too, you can call it one of yours. So you have given 2 now.

[@trickzclipz5910]

@@Anonymous-pv7ob make it 3

[@xenostim]

@@brownstonecustomcabinetry5309 you can have mine too, so you just need one more

[@samoeurnkaing2868]

​@@brownstonecustomcabinetry5309 I'm here to fill you up... I mean filled in for the fifth thumbs-up

[@giuseppefiorenza5077]

THANK YOU FROM THE DEEPEST OF MY HEART. Today I was talking to a client about the money. He came with the time argument. I saw this video months ago and i was ready. Thanks to this little short now i earn 1000€ more a month instead of 700. Nuts! I love the internet when we use it wisely!

[@thefutur]

Great job.

[@cesarguzman2626]

Yeah, but most of the time, if one works very fast on piece rate, and if the bosses notice it, they will just add more to your work for the same pay. You will still get punished for working fast. The whole system is messed up.

[@ayszhang]

My dad worked in a sofa manufacturer before retiring, and they had two systems. One was hourly, the other was by piece. So my dad was making close to 6 figures because he worked fast

[@allisthemoist2244]

Not necessarily. There's no good way to pay a mcdonalds cashier by the job they're doing. There just aren't enough managers so they kinda have to do a lot of jobs as hourly pay

[@sdivine13]

Thats when tou slow down to remind them that they either pay for more service or you dont do the service, jobs are everywhere people stop acting like you can only have one your entire life.

[@jsmitch1992]

This happens to me at my job ALL THE TIME

[@BadLineMTB]

Showing competence in a corporate job does nothing but get you more uncompensated work. I wish it was not this way but they really do punish any kind of initiative.

[@davidlee7099]

My dad was a sign painter. (As am I) He did a sign for a doctor's office in about 2 hours and charged x amount of money I don't know how much it was cuz it was back in the '70s. When my dad went to collect the doctor didn't want to pay him the amount agreed upon because he said my dad did the sign too quickly, and that the doctor said "I don't even make that much money per hour" And my dad told him maybe he should quit being a doctor and start painting signs. Ultimately my dad was paid.

[@thefutur]

Haha. Good come back.

[@davidleonard37]

I was a sign painter and similarly used to charge a rate for the job. It was my problem how long it took to do the job and sometimes it worked for me and times against me. I had some clients challenge me when I was faster than expected as they valued time not output.

[@davidleonard37]

I see people in work every day drag out their work to fill their hours as we value time not output. It's totally inefficient and illogical but it's the way that the working week operates. Also why would you work faster as then your boss would ask why your standing around or they would punish you and put extra work on you and then the lazy person is laughing at you being so nieve. In fairness it's different if your self employed.

[@beatles42ohgg94]

having done a lot of odds and ends jobs for both rich and poor people. i just give them the option. if you want this porch painted today and you want a one man crew. ill do a flat price, make an offer. if you want it to look nice, ill do it by the hour with a cap on paid hours. so if i go over the estimated hours, its on me.

[@lapatatadelplato6520]

I know people who charge by the job, but sort of have a few going at the same time. In that sense, they can let a finished product lay fallow while they work on other stuff. Being efficient and satisfying the customer at the same time

[@armenchalian6218]

“I can do things two of three ways, fast, good, cheap. Pick any combination of two.”

[@groseron]

Always liked this one, because it makes sense, it's based on reality: Fast & Good = Expensive Fast & Cheap = Bad [quality] Good & Cheap = Slow [production/service]

[@TheEstafista]

Yeah but it can't be fast and cheap. Quality takes time. You have to always choose between quality and quantity. If you expect both, your a moron

[@Alkis05]

@@TheEstafista Quality is whatever satisfy the client. If fast and cheap gets what he wanted, than it is top notch quality.

[@bansheeharlowe1226]

@@Alkis05it can be bad. Me fixing your leaking pipes in 10 minutes using cheap materials that will break the next day is NOT top notch quality. I did what you wanted (fix the leaking pipe), but it's not of high enough quality to last a long time

[@Alkis05]

@@bansheeharlowe1226 Yes, it can be bad. I think you missed the part where I said: Quality is defined by the satisfaction of the client. I won't be satisfied if something breaks the next day you supposedly fixed. In fact, I expect now that you will fix it without me paying you again. Also, doing it cheap doesn't mean I want you to use substandard materials that can't possibly work. I will give you an example that is always mentioned in engineering circles: A toothpaste factory had a problem. Some of the toothpaste tubes were not filling up and they need to remove the anomalies from the factory line. A bunch of skillful engineers started designing a system with robotic arms and object recognition algorithms to detect and separate the tubes. Meanwhile, some of the workers put a strong ventilator so the unfilled tubes, which were lighter, were just blown out. In the end, both would eventually solved the problem, but one was cheaper and faster to deploy.

[@awesomeaman113]

Completely valid question/concern, and a brilliant response with an incredible point.

[@joaor.8780]

its not valid. it means he is dumb.

[@GODPandrr]

I love how he is interactive rather than just saying what it is - great way to learn

[@thefutur]

Thank you

[@4doorsmorewhors]

​@@thefuturscripted af

[@ChyllOW]

@@4doorsmorewhors scripted or not it’s still educative

[@KevinSproul]

Do you even need a live teacher in the classroom, if he isn't going to be interactive? If all you are doing is reciting a canned speech, then you can just distribute a text book and a DVD, or put it all on a website.

[@4doorsmorewhors]

@@KevinSproul that's what I'm saying it's so dumb

[@jamesklebenow6885]

That’s why artists typically don’t charge an hourly rate.

[@mnomadvfx]

Well sure if you know roughly how long it is going to take you and charge accordingly on a daily rate.

[@JordanJumpin]

Depends on the type of art as well tho, I think this mostly applies to graphic design opposed to something like illustration or sequential arts

[@CorwinTheOneAndOnly]

For something like a logo, charging by the job makes more sense anyways. You say "I want a logo, workshop me five samples, I'll choose the one I want, then finalize that one. 20,000 dollars. I'll throw in an extra 5,000 bonus if you workshop me ten samples instead, but that's optional." And then the artist either says "deal" or tries to negotiate the price a little bit. The contract will always have a "get this job done in X months time" to it, but that doesn't mean they're paying you 20-25,000 bucks over X months, you're being paid 20-25,000 per JOB. In the same way businesses shouldn't pay hourly for a job-based contract, artists/contractors shouldn't be requesting hourly pay. That's the other side of this issue is that a lot of artists think they can get away with that. It's ultimately up to businesses to say "No, I'm paying you this much money to get the job done. 4 month deadline, finish it whenever. Bonuses for X" because that's the responsible thing to do. The artists definitely cannot make that request lmao.

[@turboryan]

How about that Italian artist that sold an invisible sculpture for $18,300... he is so efficient he doesn't have to do anything.

[@cinema_yo]

Or even at my shop. Cleaning a carb takes me 10 min. But I charge for an hour. Your paying for labor and knowledge.

[@raymondayala5355]

“You don’t pay the plumber for banging on the pipes… you pay him from knowing where to bang” Harvey Spector Suits 😉

[@adamjj001]

You don't pay me to press buttons, you pay me for knowing which buttons to press - My university professors in cybersecurity

[@HoloScope]

@@adamjj001 Yes this one, this is what I will say

[@WirelessGravy]

I didn't pay the plumber to bang my wife either.

[@KingTMK]

You don’t pay the plumber for banging on the pipes…, you pay him for banging your wife

[@masongillespie1671]

as a current plumber i can say this is accurate

[@OneEyedWheeler]

I love piece work. Getting paid for what you get done is great. On the flip side, being on salary means you still get paid when obstacles stop you from getting work done, such as machinery breakdowns, extreme weather, etc.

[@exucaviera9084]

I know someone who opted to pay a contactor hourly instead of a flat rate for some odd jobs with the intention that there would be people around to help the contractor. Nobody was around to help and she kept adding small tasks for the contractor. She was shocked when the first bill from the contractor was more than the flat rate quote and the bulk of the work still wasn't complete.

[@videogamerNattie98]

From what I am seeing logically a Flat rate is good if your scheduling up services that need to be done or something that you want that have a complicated list of steps and can have a variable time but have a defined end goal. The worker in question is awarded in speed as the faster they do it the faster they get paid. But Hourly rate is good if your wanting something upkept by a worker like a retail employee for example basically something with no destined end goal but something that needs to be kept up so your paid by the hour to keep it up. As I don't see how a flat rate can be applied to things that have no defined end where the goal is to just keep doing it. So you would be forced to use a time based payment model for such a case. 🤔

[@lionelhutz5137]

If you're a contractor you'd have to be out of your mind to agree to work on an hourly basis instead of the standard estimation/bid method.

[@rjbourgeois5490]

​@@lionelhutz5137it's actually more profitable. Time can be manipulated in your favor, a desired outcome cannot. The reason contract work prefers outcome based rather than time based is because if you are efficient you can get more job opportunities fit into a small amount of time.

[@BuzzLiteBeer]

This is how old school management in any industry or job approaches their direct reports. We are expected to work and be onsite 40+ hours a week to earn our keep, but if we finish our work faster and leave earlier, we are "lazy" and not meeting our hours. If we reveal that we work faster, we are expected to work even more. The incentive structure never makes sense but most managers (and business owners) are unable to comprehend this.

[@BadLineMTB]

The only bad review I got in 18 years at my current company was from a manager like this. She never saw my name on the production issues board because I had a really good turn around time, 8 days faster than any one else in the dept. But since my name wasn't on the board I was "lazy". The next year I just stopped closing out my issues in a timely manner, I would let them sit there for a week or two then close them out. That same manager gave me an exceeds expectations review that year when in reality all I did was become a worse employee.

[@arnimzola1139]

Then work a job that pays by completion or commission.

[@rodneywillett6316]

That's also what raises are for.

[@vincenthamel3420]

Yup, learned early on that working faster just mean your boss will expect you to do more work, all the time.

[@NikoBellaKhouf2]

The problem is college education. They go to school and can't think outside the box

[@mikelouis9389]

The unspoken thing is, there's no pleasing some people unless it's immediate, perfect and free.

[@melaninmonroe007]

Immediate can’t be perfect. And perfect takes time. And time is money.

[@ismbks]

what hes saying doesnt make any sense in the real world, go ask any freelance artist, dev, or any outsourced creative job.. you cannot sign a contract if you can't deliver a detailed quote with your hourly rate and some high level overview of the tasks you are going to do

[@fundinghomes]

People pay top dollar for free stuff

[@LifeIn.TheRing]

Everyone has something else to say about your comment and don’t understand it’s a general statement, some people are always half glass empty like you said unless it’s immediate perfect and free their minds will always pick out the problems instead of being grateful for whatever they’re getting because some people don’t even have homes to sleep in

[@mikelouis9389]

@@LifeIn.TheRing Exactly. And, we're also dealing with the troll issue.

[@L1Pstg]

This applies to many commission based jobs. This is absolute gold. Business owners and employees charge accordingly knowing their quality and target customer-base. Save yourself the headache of blaming others for “over-charging“ and go with someone you can afford knowing you get what you pay for.

[@victorywp]

There was a case where a lady agreed to pay a locksmith to unlock her car at the car park. Apparently she was locked out of her car (some older version of car). The locksmith unlocked her car in less than 5 minutes but she refused to pay the full amount as she saw how fast he unlocked it. She offered just 10% of the agreed amount but the locksmith rejected. It ended up with the locksmith locked her car again in the same way and walked away.

[@sal_strazzullo]

HAHAHAHHA

[@fredman1085]

That exact scenario happened to a high school friend many years ago. The locksmith at least explained, times wasn’t the issue, it’s based on experience. Experience has value.

[@JSHM-ParkSon]

If the work is basic labor work, it does make sense to know how much the hour labor rate would be. However, if the job requires skills, creativity and experience, no reason to talk about hourly rate. Just care about the results and effectiveness.

[@shubhamer2000]

In such situation PPL shud politely negotiate it works most of the time

[@deannagibbs971]

@@JSHM-ParkSonwhat labour work doesn’t take any skill? Any job and employees experience and skill set will vary

[@RafidAziz91]

A wise man once said, pay someone for the value they bring, not the amount of hours they work.

[@Mrkti]

Who is that wise man?

[@skilxrd1203]

That’s exactly word for word what he said bro it ain’t no quote 💀

[@plmokm33]

@@skilxrd1203 Word for word what someone said is the literal definition of a quote lmao

[@TheIrishEgyptian]

@@Mrkti the guy in the video, verbatim 😭

[@jason21jburg]

Those days are gone sadly 😊

[@MarijaEnchantix]

I'm a freelance translator and had exactly this! I did the job in 2 weeks when the allocated time was a month, and it was charged per hour. So i nthe end people dragging their feet and doing 3 words per day and procrastinating would get twice the money I did, instead of the business paying me twice as much for doing the job fast and WELL. I was being punished for being efficient. So I also started telling people I worked on things more than I did.

[@THENEONGRID]

congratulations. you have now learned how everyone works

[@classmst89]

Then charge for the job and not the time. Im a spray paint artist on the side, i dont charge for my hours i charge for the piece of art, if it takes a day or a week they paying for the product not for the hours.

[@sazanavi]

Freelance translators here paid by words or pages and every niche is different (law, health, academia). By hours sounds so counterintuitive. It's idiotic.

[@Zakaker]

​@@sazanaviThe problem with paying translators by word count is that you're encouraging them to do everything as quickly as possible so that they can make more money in less time regardless of the actual quality of the translation (so long as it's not downright unacceptable). The fact that their work is numerically quantifiable is, somewhat counterintuitively, a bad thing for them. If they were illustrators or composers, they could just go _"yeah so this is what my work looks like, it'll cost you X to get something like this",_ but as a translator, you often can't show off your work, and businesses only care about the numbers, so you either learn to prioritize speed over quality or you're stuck with a hourly wage that may not satisfy your needs. It's like being caught between a rock and a hard place.

[@Ken_neThT]

​@@Zakakerperhaps have someone evaluate their work, like a quality checker or something? I think that would help

[@treebobjoe]

You could spend hours analyzing this man overcoming every objection thrown his way. Bravo.

[@thefutur]

Thank you. I have a system that I teach people how to overcome objections.

[@1CJMac1]

That’s why you pay an artist for the commission. Not a salary. We’ve known about this since the dark ages

[@jlh8790]

All financial seminars gurus are kinda grifters… they are just selling themselves, they don’t teach anything new that you can’t get for free. Let’s be real if he or anybody else had financial secrets, they’d keep it to themselves and be super wealthy

[@Erk350]

not a lot of people understand that.

[@Arddy]

Many don’t know about this, from both sides of the fence. I’m an artist myself and didn’t know how to charge commissions. This video helped me aplenty.

[@tonycarver9570]

Thank you!

[@niscent_]

that's why it's called a commission. when it comes to one time things, you don't pay someone for his work, you commission him for a result.

[@ernimuja6991]

You don’t pay hourly for a commission. You pay hourly for maintained work.

[@Fetidaf]

This is what I was trying to think of but my brain couldn’t get there lol. While he was explaining it I was like “that’s not how that works, if someone can do it quicker for the same amount then that has nothing to do with valuing either time or money more, and when you propose the job they say “I’ll do this for X amount and it will take y time” not “I’ll do it for $180 an hour and I have no clue how long it’ll take”.

[@cockman8437]

Okay, but he still completed the logo for the hirer, and the hirer absolutely loved it.

[@jasontorres9844]

But now you are valuing someone who works efficiently per hour as much as the person who takes a bathroom break every hour. In a sense the guy is trying to explain how to get a raise.

[@nicholashandley4456]

Exactly, I was trying to figure out the context for this discussion. Were they talking about hourly wage beforehand? Or did this all have to do with commissioned jobs? It started with the guy asking about where his 18k goes and the presenter suddenly talking about hours and not why why commissioned artists charge for what they do.

[@georgietorrance]

apparently, some dumbass business owners/ startups charge freelancing work by the hour, it's pissing me off

[@evilAshTheDog]

As a software engineer, I've learned to always value my work by the value of my work, not the time it takes to create.

[@daghetto101]

As a software engineer i just want to have a nice life in the farm somewhere.

[@chithiradiasseneviratne3562]

always prefer a stable branch that took 10 hours then one shitty fork that took a single one

[@CallMeJamezCuzDatzAGiantPeach]

Whatever makes u sleep at night, am I right ? Some good coping right there

[@Ralyx0]

"Value my work by the value of my work" is meaninglessly circular.

[@nocturn9x]

​@@daghetto101as a Cloud engineer, please tell me the address of this farm so I can join you. 😂

[@nancilane5069]

Thumbs up for this man!

[@DJL70]

“If I do a job in 30 minutes, it’s because I spent 10 years learning how to do that in 30 minutes. You owe me for the years, not the minutes.”

[@darkvader0248]

False no one owes you anything for acquiring a skill that made you useful to the world. That’s terrible logic

[@jevonsims900]

​@@darkvader0248 And yet billionaire business owners use that same logic and they're praised as job creators.

[@samuraiinblack8364]

​@@darkvader0248 So you are okay with working for free then?

[@personman8734]

@@darkvader0248 you’re paying for someone’s skills not their time. If you weren’t paying me for my skill you wouldn’t need me in the first place.

[@calebgarcia7949]

Not my fault it took you 10 years to learn

[@khawlabakar1000]

I like that the person he's talking to is putting his point of view with so much confidence but at the same time he's ready to change it if the other person's idea is more logical, that's an open minded person with so much emotional maturity 👍👍👍👍👍

[@chriscooling8610]

Common in a classroom environment

[@Rncko]

I mean.... ain't nobody gonna crossroad with MONEY. If the logic and money is there, FLOW with it.

[@ryanshannon6963]

I think you're giving that guy way too much credit. He was just caught in a logical fallacy. It's similar to how I've been dealing with home builders and them giving a non-meaningful ratio of "$ per square foot". Why do I care about the $/sqft valuation? I don't. The only thing I care about is how much the house is to build and what I get with that money. If you give me pure 18k gold toilets in a 4 bathroom house with square footage of 1000sqft at a price of $100/sqft, I'm more than happy to take your valuation of $100/sqft for those 4 18k gold toilets. Once I explain it like that, they realize they can't pigeon-hole me into a, "bigger builds are cheaper per square foot." I also like how this guy is like, "I value time over money as a business person". As opposed to, being a person in your everyday life? It's called "Opportunity Cost", better get on understanding what that means and start making better business decisions.

[@Billy-bc8pk]

That's not emotional maturity, it's simply called business acumen. He's actually completely voiding emotion and thinking entirely about cost-effectiveness; ergo, capitalism.

[@philipsangalang5077]

The guy he's talking to is clueless in the first place because of the illogical loops. Any serious business owner should already value time over money already. By having a defined budget, and having received the quality expected (or better), then penalizing the contractor through time spent/hourly rates is just being a cheapskate. It showcases that they lack confidence in their own project's success/profit.

[@L2L2L2-2]

The customer hates feeling like “oh wow I could’ve done that myself in 5 minutes!” But reality is that they don’t have the behind the scenes wisdom to do it in 5

[@anandsuralkar2947]

Yes it's 5-10years of experience learning hard work.

[@mr.m2695]

Yea they do

[@krackedbeats5947]

Yeah I just became a diesel mechanic and It opened my eyes to how dumb I was and everyone is

[@professionalnobody4416]

@@krackedbeats5947 the heck is a diesel

[@SkysLimitDoesMC]

@@krackedbeats5947I’m thinking of getting into a more physical job. How long did it take you to get educated?

[@its_dade]

What a great salesperson on knowing his worth and how to prove it. Excellent breakdown

[@TonyRule]

Nobody's paying $18k for a logo, except a government department or someone that's also ripping off their customers.

[@rabbitspirit5202]

In an hourly job the laziest worker is the smartest one.

[@tesladrew2608]

The laziest one that does enough yo not get fired

[@oahts5906]

If they’re okay with being miserable watching the clock go by.

[@P010010010100101]

*they think they're the smartest

[@el4242]

Not if it gets you fired...😅

[@nemesisurvivorleon]

Maybe I cant stand hourly work then.

[@flightless8903]

I used to be told “don’t do your work fast, pace it until you clock out”??he’s so right!

[@ismaeljrp1]

Being too efficient at a regular job only rewards you with more work at the same pay. The trick is to be just above average and very very likable/charismatic. That’s what gets you promotions and higher pay. You create an illusion of high performance without being seen as a conveyor belt of productivity they can’t lose because then their numbers as managers decrease. Your numbers won’t hurt theirs as much, and they like you so you get the promo.

[@archae10]

​@ismaeljrp1 I am an assistant manager for a warehouse, and in charge of shipping logistics for a company that houses shipments ordered by customers, but I finish my work really fast, so my boss occasionally will give me more daily tasks because I sit around so much, but its never enough on slow days, and way too much on fast days. There has not been a raise for my workload being increased.

[@ismaeljrp1]

@@archae10 you gotta show more value two levels up. So the one you want knowing your name is the guy above your boss. You are your bosses assistant, of course he’d want to keep it that way. From HR perspective it can become tricky if an employee creeps up the salary ladder too much without a title upgrade as well. It is political. Sounds like you need to be at that next level but this may not be the right place for you to do so.

[@archae10]

@@ismaeljrp1 We work in a small company. My boss is the CEO, Founder, and HR

[@MeiinUK]

@@ismaeljrp1 : Oh..... so basically... cos it is an actual project.. if he wants to earn the company more money, he needs to be super sure, about that specific design... and not to be out of touch... and it has to be refined several times... etc etc etc....

[@staceyhong4936]

My son happened upon this short clip and recognized the voice of the man with the microphone asking questions of the instructor. It’s his dad, Jung, who passed away from cancer in August of 2018. We haven’t heard his voice in 5 years.😢

[@thefutur]

Hi Stacey. We all miss Jung. There’s a longer clip of him in the full video.

[@CautionThisTempleIsUnderConstr]

Aww❤❤

[@liviaserrano7856]

@staceyhong4936. Wow! That's amazing. You cant's make these things up. My condolences to you, your son & family.

[@bloupinho]

My condoleances to you and your family ❤

[@leelindsay5618]

Its really rough when you don't have those little things to remember people by. Such luck to have found this clip and the longer video.

[@merrittlentz3608]

I try to teach people this all the time. I usually use a hybrid rate though. You need to have safeguards against endless revisions and added complexities.😊

[@TheAwesomeo1000]

If someone can fix a spaceship in five minutes, he's gonna be asking more than $15

[@Julia-yx9ks]

you would charge for time along with the cost of materials

[@boom5732]

​@@Julia-yx9ks not just time

[@nahahahaha8834]

exactly lol

[@showcase0525]

You dont pay me for my time. You pay me for my experience so it doesn't take time

[@user-oi3ry9dx9u]

​@@boom5732 they said that...

[@caskey12]

As a mechanic, I hate this. "But, It only took you 10 minutes." "YA! That's why you brought it to ME."

[@Dulceria-La-Princesita]

Get over yourself, shlomo. It was brought to you because the other shops were full.

[@Murderface666]

But did you do anything or did you create a problem to create a repeat customer?

[@theeyeofmango]

@@Murderface666 This is the assumption that all people have with every mechanic regardless of time or skill. If he took a long time to do it you'd say the same thing and still pay the same rate. Your exactly what the video goes against. If your car works after it had trouble in a short time you should pay more than if it took a long time to fix.

[@kptbroncano]

I have the same dilemma, for electrical work (electrician here).

[@rustynail7866]

It took you 10 minutes to fix it, but it took 10 years to figure out how to fix it in 10 minutes.

[@G19Jeeper]

That’s exactly what I’ve tried to explain to people and the response is usually the same. “Why are you charging me $400 for a job that took you 3 hrs!?!?” You charge by the job and now have an incentive to do it correctly the first time and quickly.

[@cu2wootin524]

Because it would take our inexperienced asses forever to do what you do in 3 hours 😅

[@TC-ep5hy]

Plus, if I'm hiring out for a job, chances are that the company has all the tools and experience that I don't have. I might be able to paint my home on my own (for example) and save $400... but it's going to cost more than that in the materials and mistakes that I'm going to make. Good tradespeople are worth their weight!

[@robertdevadason1885]

Because the service is worth $133.33/hour😃...demand vs supply

[@TowerMike]

Fast, cheap, or good. You can only choose 2.

[@wanderingwatcher3981]

I really like this, but I can't think of anything that's cheap and good but not fast

[@MissKitty944]

I only need one choice: good.

[@mann8098]

Applies to women also 😂

[@joaor.8780]

onpoint. amazing comment

[@millecrepes47]

​@@wanderingwatcher3981i just can think of ordering some illustrations or request sculpture

[@alal7835]

I worked for a company that had a profit sharing system to encourage workers to cut waste and work mor efficiently. When new owners took over they stopped the profit sharing and couldn't understand why the per unit cost went up 20%.

[@RM-lk1so]

ABSOLUTELY. Well Dah. That's tha 😂 col. Degs of today paying off. Lmao

[@GiaBao-gr2zd]

How is a profit sharing system would work ? Is it like communism a bit ? I dont understand.

[@zombiejoe326]

That's actually not a bad idea, I know a couple companies out there that could use that 🤣

[@joeyvogelsberg9658]

This wouldn't happen to be an HVAC company would it?

[@austinricketson]

One of my art design professors used to tell us that we aren't paid for our time, we're paid for the knowledge and skills we've developed.

[@Gee-no]

Sounds like an art teacher. Lol. Not saying it's wrong just sounds like "creative person" logic. I'm a musician so I do understand. It just sounds funny cause I've also worked hourly jobs .

[@christophergray1673]

Works fine except art teacher considers themselves the exception. 'Yeah it's okay not to make money it's for experience. Now pay me' 😂😂

[@Eddneton94]

and thats why i rather use ai

[@lessonslearned2569]

@@Eddneton94 Because you don't value art, the artist, or the talent.

[@Eddneton94]

@@lessonslearned2569 you are 100% right. i only value the end result not the hoops they took to get there.

[@meat8475]

Bro deconstructed his whole argument respectfully you love to see it

[@billmimms]

Thanks for posting. That was actually a very interesting Short.

[@lenapoolaw211]

I used to work as a food preper at taco Bueno, part time with hourly pay. My manager would get upset at me if I was too slow, but I did my job fast enough we never were out of the salsa cups before my shift was supposed to be done, and if I did it as fast as she had wanted me to do, I'd have less hours and therefore less pay, and that was my only job at that time. It just doesn't make sense, as a employee.

[@insideoutsideupsidedown2218]

Had that same work scenario as well. Closing the store, the store manager asked why did it take so long for us to close the night before. Mind you, I was just a crew person. He needed to figure that out with the shift manager, not the line employees. I always stated, I am paid by the hour, and some hours we were busting it, others were slower and we would clean, etc. I also stated I am a full time employee, not a 36 hr a week employee. I expect to be scheduled 40 hours a week, and I will be there 40hrs a week, not 36 or 38.

[@kkaykkay972]

Taco bueno where? Cermak and hoyne ?

[@protoborg]

Actually, it does. Paying by the hour ensures that you can properly judge how much to charge. It also ensures that you can get paid well. If you do things too quickly then you likely have not put the effort in to actually do a good job, regardless of how efficient you have been.

[@dirtysilver2841]

We're talking about a task I can do out of my own home. The end of the line where I, as a customer, an holding the bill, simply will not pay the price of a worker doing a basic, talentless job, for a higher salary. Now if you served 100 people, then you'll make more money the faster you work.

[@ryananggoro493]

​@@protoborg that didn't make sense as construction worker I assure you daily paid is more efficient for worker and costumer since worker can doing their job faster and costumer can enjoy their property sooner if I want to be rich then I will take hours paid and doing my job slowly but you know what the costumer will be mad at us their no such thing as work slowly mean doing efficient and put lot into job it's just for lazy people thinking when it's take longer mean I am doing perfect job Sony it's not painting nor art certain job need to be faster and perfectly done this why they choose worker who can do work perfect and faster job you know what I mean if you ever got a job that's it

[@SuperPoochootrain]

I got into an argument with a supervisor i worked for over this. We were minimum wage and told that once we finish our project we would go home. So some people started working faster. They got mad at me for working slower. I told them that unless i got paid for my full shift, why would i work faster to get paid less?

[@thefutur]

You’re right in those situations this won’t work.

[@hackmedia7755]

so instead of being paid for the hour, have a contract job and you can finish as fast or as slow as you want.

[@thefutur]

Yup

[@jesusdrz9620]

Some people just want to finish a project and then jump to the next project to get paid again.. just because you’re slow doesn’t mean everyone has to be affected by it. Get a contract job or salary job. Otherwise stfu.

[@Soul_Alpha]

​@@jesusdrz9620this is why the job market is declining and tanking in most things bc people are tired of that type of 💩 attitude like you got.

[@FalloutUrMum]

I had a data entry job, the quota was 4 quotes an hour for essentialy 6 and a half hours (including lunches and mandatory breaks). I once suggested to ownership that they just pay people the same amount they'd make in a days work, as long as they did their 26 jobs. Then the queu would empty quicker, customers would get their estimates almost right away, and the employees would be motivated to improve because they get off when they're done with 26, however long that takes. The reason being, it took most of us 20 minutes to do 4 quotes unless it was extra complicated, then just watch KZbin or play videogames until we needed to do the rest. There were bonuses for finishing more quotes than anyone else, but there were people who got those bonuses regularly because their assigned quotes were way easier to finish and took two minutes, so they'd finish 70 quotes in the first half of the day, nobody could compete. Even if we worked our asses off the most we could possibly do is 78 in a whole day, while this person gets the easy ones and blasts off ahead. My boss didn't like my idea, but they had literally asked us how to improve efficiency and told us how much each quote is worth to them, I told them how to improve efficiency and get the value they wanted. They ended up changing the quota from 4 to 4 and a half per hour

[@ianm.346]

1st Law of Power: Never Outshine the Master.

[@PepperyAmoeba]

It's very common for companies to ask how to improve efficiency rhetorically. They don't care to implement new processes because they might end up paying more for less work in their eyes. Just as the video says, they don't care if you're fast, because realistically, you just do more work than others and that's good for them - hence why company's hate the 'quiet quitting' because like you all did, you did exactly the work load, and that's a problem for them. Funny how companies work these days, isn't it?

[@EthanKorea]

@@PepperyAmoebait's pretty funny but also incredibly depressing and unfulfilling. It's rough out here

[@dreamcream3738]

"How do we increase efficiency" in business lingo means "How do we get more work for cheaper?"

[@philosopherpeasant]

A lot of business owners and managers have some incredibly basic ideas about how work should be done, how people should be managed, or how a business should be run.

[@revivalfitnessus]

Agreed. I run a home service business with one employee, and I always have a daily rate with bonuses to promote good quality work.

[@202misha]

‘If I only had one hour to chop down a tree, I would spend the first 45 minutes sharpening my axe.’ -Abraham Lincoln.

[@ViewsFromTheDeathStar]

I like that

[@mrfries2911]

Well said

[@taniksusu4034]

If only he was better at properly keeping his tools he wouldn't need 45 minutes to sharpen his axe.

[@heatsflamesman5353]

​@@taniksusu4034 Maybe it wasn't meant to be taken literally?

[@FelineEnjoyer]

tf does that have to do with anything 💀

[@EddyPham]

People don’t understand the “value of experience” has a cost

[@N4chtigall]

Well, the problem is that it's hard to evaluate how much is it worth actually worth. The truth is that it's impossible to evaluate properly since we put a value on it. Why some designers work supposed to cost thousands when in theory random design student should be able to do the same?

[@ta1708]

Yes more experience, larger hourly rate - its that simple

[@kjcorder]

Engineer and the chalk mark

[@romeoneverdies]

@@N4chtigall its not experience that really matter its the result. you might have all the experience but if you are a shitty worker the result might actually still be crap. Demand regulates the result not the labor. Demand sets the price for the quality and availability of your work. while experience allows efficiency and more profit. but it will only translate if you use that efficiency to bolster quality as well.

[@notbrianbradley]

@@romeoneverdies I was going to say that the top level comment was worded poorly. I think the key word would be "expertise." and thus it'd be clearer if it was, "expertise has a cost" so that's why the hourly rate would be higher. Also the point you make about what would be called industriousness/conscientiousness (working hard). On the subject of experience (just rambling here): most people measure experience in years/time (which, of course, it, along with anything else related to improvement and skill development, is corelated quite highly), but it's clear that some people learn faster than others so, aside from increasing the liklihood of encountering rare events, experience itself is a unit (or at least is not measured in time) and a person's experience would be calculated with a multivariate function where only one of the arguments is time (not saying that function is easy to define, just that experience is a much more complicated concept that merely the time someone has spent doing it). Again just rambling here.

[@cgrayson9627]

I always valued piece work over hourly. Efficiency is king

[@BrooksDunn]

He broke that down insanely good.

[@bryanbiltoft8141]

"Well", not good.

[@ThePsychicFish]

That's Chris Do for you

[@jjhung2]

That's a well grammer lesson.

[@MaxLohMusic]

He's also stating the obvious. When's the last time you met a contractor for art, music, etc who charged hourly? There's a REASON it's the industry standard to charge per minute of music, rather than hours spent on it.

[@betadecay6503]

Yeah, because it's a concept a 5yo could figure out

[@psychochicken9535]

I like how he takes this guy's own logic and shows him that first he wants to pay more for it to take longer, then he wants to pay more for it to take less time.

[@thefutur]

That’s the art of argument.

[@SeraphsWitness]

In the end he was reasoning poorly. He wants the product to be good. But if someone delivers a product in half an hour, regardless of how good it is, it's easy to feel cheated, or as if the artist didn't really put in the effort. Even as a professional, a good design should take more than that. So there are lower and upper bounds to the "time" argument.

[@xumametcalf7538]

@@thefutur ARgumanT art

[@SuperTheast]

@@SeraphsWitness depends. I used to do service work as a plumber. I fixed countless issues in under 5 minutes simply because something was slightly loose and just needed to be tightened. While not a log designer, the concept is the same. You don’t pay for just the time a person spends on a project. You also pay for the experience that person has. Someone with logo design experience likely has templates to start off of or has the experience in software to burn through the process while still providing the same level of work. But the “customers” logic in this video was that he should be paying by the hour and the job at the same time. You either pay by the job or by the hour for services like logo design. As the presenter proves, the customer doesn’t like it when he says that he could say it took 4 months for double the amount with the reason that he worked hard on it because he would find someone that does it faster. So the customer proved his own argument was flawed as soon as he claimed that. I’ve seen people design crazy things in just a few days since they have the knowledge and skill to design parts that quickly.

[@allegro6104]

​@@SeraphsWitness yeah but it shouldn't be about how you feel just because you base you expectations on dumb ideas. The fact that people get paid on the hour instead of quality of work is a huge problems in a lot fields. It just incentivises sluggish working

[@onlineo2263]

Got a friend who is a part time wedding photographer 20-30 weddings per year. He spends 1-2 hours deleting bad photos, does no editing or processing at all, then sends accross his wedding photos. He guarantees that his turnaround is within a month. He usually makes everyone wait 21-25 days. People could have the photos next day, but then they always come up with complaints, because they feel they haven't got value!

[@OhImKiCkiN]

I often "put off" delivery of 3d models now for the same reason as your friend. Depending on the complexity, I can usually design the models fairly quickly. But I found that if the customer knows this theyll complain about the agreed upon price, or say it feels rushed.

[@McP1mpin]

Your friends clients assume that the photos they receive are the best they can be because he tricked them into believing that he spent time editing and processing them. That's why they don't complain. Your friend is a dirt bag who is scamming his clients.

[@McP1mpin]

​@@OhImKiCkiNIt's not the same thing at all. It would be one thing if his friend was really efficient at editing and processing photos, but he actually delivers an unfinished product and uses the extra time to trick his clients into believing it is finished. It sounds like you actually deliver what you promise.

[@HuchiaZ]

​@@McP1mpinI'll bandwagon here and add that this is related to perceived value as well. I do. A lot of crafting shows and have to be mindful of not just my bottom line to profit but also what the same or similar items are selling for. If my decorative wine glass is 20 bucks each to compete with a other Booth's decorative glasses, say at 40 or 50 each, then one of two things can occur. I profit because people see their's as over priced, or they profit because mine is seen as potentially cheap. "Why is it half the value?" is the question they never verbalize. Now put my booth with 10 others. If I'm the cheapest, I need to raise my prices, because now not only could I be the cheap stuff but I'm more likely to be doing something less reliable than the other 9. This works in vice versa as well, but being seen as premium could push people away because being top price could be interpreted as some gold standard that is 'perfect,' and you don't need a perfect wine glass- just a good one. It doesn't matter if I got a deal from a supplier and thus I could lower the price, all because of perception.

[@onlineo2263]

@@McP1mpin he tricks no one. He advertises as unfiltered and unedited, natural style.

[@steffenp7384]

This needs to apply to so many things.

[@dustydee9233]

You don't pay for a designer's time to create a good logo, you are paying for the experience needed to create a good logo.

[@brixan...]

Good logo (or design in general) doesn't require a lot of experience. It requires creativity; that's what's valuable

[@ashy_ness]

@@brixan... no?

[@PJJHydo]

@@brixan... creativity is a skill that can be developed.

[@brixan...]

@@PJJHydo of course

[@davidlockwood16]

Yep same for any professional, you are paying for their experience and time to be able to do the right task for you at the right time. Same for Designer, Lawyers or engineers and consultants

[@Breezio69]

Finish carpenter here.... had a job that I met with the customer 4 different times for free for layout, material choices, helping them on opinions on the rest of the room look/ how they should move forward doing things that aren't in my own wheelhouse like tile etc etc.... I ended up doing the work for $4,000 and it only took me 2 days. The customer was ok with my price up front but they were upset that it only took me 2 days of labor working on things they can't do themselves. They also didn't take into account my 4 times coming over, ordering materials, picking up and delivering materials, setting up, completing the work, cleaning up, taking waste and materials off site to dispose of. It's a cheap world out there, you just have to stick to your guns and run your business.

[@ifixmixers]

The plight of every field service technician on the planet, summed up in a few short seconds! Bravo!!

[@HelloThere.....]

This is a bad argument once you realize that no, it's supposed to be fair to both parties. The fact that he pays you for more work doesn't mean he values it taking longer more, he's conflating the compensation for the WORK with how much he values the expedience of the job as a whole when it really just means he values each hour you work equally and fairly. If you take less time you'll get hired more often, if you take more you get paid more but won’t get hired as much. You want to be paid for how much work you put in, don’t you? If a task is difficult and time consuming, why should you get paid less because it took you time? The duration of which we might not know ahead of time and an hourly wage is a fair way to pay you fairly for your work, but I also don’t want to have things take more time and money so I'll look for who does it the fastest. Either way you still get paid fairly, and the sooner you complete this job the sooner you can go to the next and get paid for that one too. Win win for everyone, that's why it developed naturally.

[@RudeDoggGomez]

The work was done before the job began. Years of experience have enabled the designer to become a Master Craftsman.

[@dakota5569]

It honestly baffles me that there are people making these decisions who don't know this. You learn early to just do enough, if you are too good then they will expect more for the same pay and also keep you there because your too good at your job

[@Al_L.]

This is exactly why I don't hand over my translations once I'm done with them, I've gained a fair amount of experience translating a given type of documents that I do almost on a daily basis. Hence, if you take shorter than expected (a week or less) they'll distrust you.

[@redshinoutdoors]

I officially stopped charging by the hour after a decade of doing so. I was noting that the faster and more efficient I became, the less money I made. I found myself dragging jobs out to not lose out. Ever since I started just giving a single price, not one single client has complained or questioned it. Best decision I ever made.

[@mfaiqnaeem]

Where do you get your clients, if I may ask? Upwork etc?

[@egunezasca2036]

The effort put and the dedication.

[@rickylovesyou]

You're paying for quality and talent. Not the hours.

[@inigobantok1579]

Also incentives and bonus for a task exists

[@victorhopper6774]

i could not care less. i want a product that i deem worth it to me. i don't give a dam who makes it or how long it took to make

[@roadwarrior144]

EXACTLY!!!! Thank you!!!!! Bad bosses/managers cannot get their minds around this concept and it is why they are always loosing key talent and experience because the bosses/managing morons only care about time and just the dollar amount it coat them. Warren Buffet: “Know the difference between what something costs and what something is worth.” It is cost versus value.

[@CorwinTheOneAndOnly]

@@inigobantok1579 This exactly. The responsible way to do a logo contract is something like "I'm paying you 20,000 dollars. Workshop me at least 5 samples based on some parameters I'll give you, then I'll choose the one I want the most, and you finalize it. You will get another bonus 5,000 dollars if you workshop me 10 samples instead of 5, but this is optional. Get this done in X months time." Artist will either say "deal" or negotiate if there's some wiggle room. BOOM. Contract complete. Job-based pay for a single-instance based product, bonuses included for extra effort, etc. Also deadlines instead of "hours". "Get this done in 5 months" does not necessarily mean "take 5 months to make it", if you're good you can finish in a fraction of that time. Issue is, a lot of artists think they can get away with asking for hourly rates for single instance jobs, and a lot of businesses dont know any better. Hourly pay for instance-jobs is dumb and needs to die for the good of *both* sides of the transaction.

[@Blazin720]

@@victorhopper6774 That's sound dumb ...you not making sense. If you want a product that is worth it to you you'd get the best person for the job... so you could have actual profit..if you just get anyone it will come off as less valuable and would have went over the intended dead line...????

[@Victor-xv7jh]

I remember I started delivering mattresses and they started me off at 10 mattresses. When I would finish early they were shocked. They doubled the work and told me if I didn't like it I can leave... I was speechless. Suffice to say when I finally did leave they were calling back months later because the other guys they hired sucked. I also remember getting paid triple for some gigs at a different place and then they completely stopped. I figured it was do to jealousy and plus they knew they could hire someone else who didn't know about the "pay bump". It's a cold world out there 😅

[@joeldenring]

Fast, cheap, good. You can choose two, but you will always have to sacrifice the 3rd option.

[@curious_one1156]

damn ! That is the problem with our world !!!!! Even though, theoretically, it is actually possible ! All 3.

[@therealblacksheep330]

Sounds like you’ve never been to the Dominican Republics entertainment district

[@irok1]

​@@therealblacksheep330lol

[@identifying.as.asovereignhuman]

Certain things only are good with time. Which means that it can't be cheap.

[@KSWKREW]

Cheap, and good every time.

[@Quo-Vadis656]

God bless this guy. Always charge based on value, not hourly.

[@Akiraspin]

My father used to say; "Give 100% when you are work. But unless they give you a raise *never* do 110%."

[@Baka_Oppai]

thats dumb you cant do more than 100% of anything lol

[@RomDog-2648]

How about 85%, and I keep busy 📝

[@matthewalejandro6232]

You gotta be willing to do more than youre paid so you can justify them paying you more.

[@SizemicKick177]

​@@matthewalejandro6232 I think his father's a communist

[@martinkuliza]

to be realistic, given how low employee rates are vs business owner rates. An employee should really only be putting in 20% maybe 15% effort and then work harder if you get more from there. it's even crazy to put in 100% effort for 20% pay

[@pluginpp]

"I'm being punished for being efficient" - every corporate employee ever.

[@kylelucien7632]

That's not fully correct however, because by finishing your work faster it means you have more time to do more work being extra productive or saving time for a break

[@ModestPigeone]

@@kylelucien7632 or you could slack off. Don’t the same amount of work and getting paid more

[@hackerkiller2131]

@@kylelucien7632hahahaha, extra productive, that’s when they load you up with responsibility and the pay grade doesn’t change

[@knightblade0188]

@@kylelucien7632 and you get payed the same as someone taking their time… this is why the younger generations are starting to have problems with employers.

[@PiscestheDirty]

Because it is true.

[@nuggetsschumaker4371]

I remember the day i told my manager that i finished the day's work before lunch and got a little time to chill. He looked at me dead in the eye and asked why didn't i take more work if my hands were free. Never again I'll say that, but I'll continue to do that in secret. "Sorry boss, it took me the whole day to do my daily." Is now my common everyday lie.

[@RruiSoul]

The hourly rate makes perfect sense…. but only for specific types of jobs. Think customer support, being a waiter, or cook. Those jobs can’t be done quicker to be paid more as that would make ZERO sense. Now contract jobs such as building a house, website, logo, etc. are often based on the classic mantra “Fast, Cheap, or Good. You can only pick two.” Though, if you get something done quickly and it’s done well, bonuses are typically guaranteed.

[@cosmic6927]

Exactly what I was thinking

[@goomyman23]

but they can be done with worse quality. yes your keeping them there 8 hours but you can demand that they handle twice as many customers. And then they end up cutting all the corners to deliver or literally hanging up on customers with tough calls etc.

[@ModestPigeone]

That’s why i don’t do hourly rates. I just tell the customer how much it’ll cost, and then I do it as efficiently as possible.

[@nekad2000]

Like every business does. That's why this analogy is stupid.

[@ModestPigeone]

@@nekad2000 in my line of work, most people charge hourly rates. I think it’s stupid because it wastes mine and the customers time.

[@sebastianmosqueda5959]

What type of industry are you in?​@@ModestPigeone

[@illbeyourmonster1959]

I tell them they can either pay by the job or by the hour. They cost the same in the end, but one will get done a lot faster.

[@sebastianmosqueda5959]

@@ModestPigeone What line of work are you in?

[@paulcunningham5327]

Never punish efficiency, understanding the value of the piece is key

[@オールマイト-y1f]

The way I look at it is time is the most valuable commodity. I also spent decades getting good at what I do. I can do something in 10 hours that would take others 90 hours. You pay a premium for me to save you that much time. I charge on three key factors. The complexity of the piece, The time to complete by normal standards and my overall crunch and expertise that would have added difficulty to the project. I gave up on hourly charging long ago.

[@paulcunningham5327]

@@オールマイト-y1f right! I charge entirely by outcomes and I tie my fees into my clients earnings, the sooner I am done, the quicker you earn off my work....

[@peteroz7332]

a customer brings his car to the workshop for a check up...because the engine was making a weird sounds... the mechanic, after opening the hood/bonnet and brief moment of valuation, took a screwdriver and fastened a loosened screw... then said: - it's done and it should be OK now.. the customer said: - great... how much do I owe you? - $100 - what? a hundred bucks for 15 seconds and tightening of 1 screw? 😲😱 mechanic responded: - *I have done the screw FOR FREE for you... you just pay me for **_knowing WHICH screw to tighten_* 🤷‍♂️💥

[@paulcunningham5327]

@@peteroz7332 I love that!!

[@luxferre5546]

​@@paulcunningham5327 I think you didn`t get it. a patient brings his child to the doctor for a check up...because it is looking pretty sick and feeling weak and coughs up blood... the doctor, after looking for the kid and a brief moment of valuation, goes to the medicine cabinet gets the right medicine and comes back... then said: - If your child is taking this it should be fine again next week.. the customer said: - great... how much do I owe you? - $1.000.000 - what? a million bucks for 15 seconds and 1 little bottle of medicine? 😲😱 doctor responded: -Phhhh. Medicine is almost for free. Its a byproduct of oilproduction but I thought your child would be pretty important to you and probably you would pay pretty much money to save it. So that`s why I am charging a hell lot of money out of you. Also my best friend bought himself a new Lamborghini so I need a new Bugatti to overshine him and that`s why you are the idiot that`s gonna pay for it. 🤷‍♂️💥

[@AeyoWolf]

“You’re paying for my experience, not my time”

[@rayhinojosa9721]

Paying for the years not the minutes

[@charliebakerspen]

Lol okay. More like artificially inflating the value of your service because of what you did years ago.

[@leovang3425]

​@@charliebakerspen If you have more experience in a particular field, you have more incentive to be hired, meaning you can charge more for your services. Are you gonna pay fresh out of school bachelor the same as the person who has 10 years of experience in that field?

[@aabidamn]

​@@leovang3425If they are doing the exact same job, with the exact same responsibilities & performance target, then yes, the workers should be paid the same.

[@MitchellPierson]

If you could do it, you wouldn't be paying for it. Whatever the service is. ​@@charliebakerspen

[@pdj2975]

my father was the man that paid his workers for an outcome, if the job took 4 hours youd still be paid for 8, as long as the task was done and all up to date

[@HeathenHammer80]

Exactly! It takes years to become an expert at something and just because you can do it in half the time doesn’t mean you should get punished for your experience. I work in a flat rate body shop, so I know this scenario all too well.

[@jensgur]

I watched the whole thing years ago and this bit still sticks to me.

[@MRatna]

Chris is brilliant. So much to learn from him! A buddy turned to me once while we were on an animation gig. He said, "Man, I need more money. I'm going to have to learn how to draw slower.”

[@thefutur]

Hey Marc. Thank you

[@MetaFootballTV]

Who is this Chris guy ?

[@MichaelJHermanTV]

Absolutely brilliant.😊

[@lonelyone69]

A designer is someone who studied 13 years to create something great in 10 seconds

[@12Kyra121]

You said it so eloquently. This lady tried to hire my mom, and when my mom told her her rate, she said it wouldn't fit her budget but she can't get someone else so my mom has to negotiate. My mom asked her why she should prioritize the ladies budget over her own, and she couldn't reply.

[@lonelyone69]

@@12Kyra121 Fighting small uneducated business owners about how I've got an MA in brand identity from UAL I know stuff better than you has become my second job at this point. Wanting to pay me 10 pound an hour because my "fees are too high" is just shameful to me at this point.

[@k4ba]

13 years of education!? You guys must be joking, not even a medical specialist takes that much, you designers live in a bubble, we have logos that were created by unskilled people that until this day exist after decades.

[@lonelyone69]

@@k4ba I have an MA in brand identity from UAL and BSC in marketing from Northumbria you have a problem with that. Also branding is 400 other things apart from a logo. The fact you think that proves your inexperience with any of this.

[@Emppu_T.]

​@@lonelyone69 that's credentialism, a piece of paper doesn't guarantee skill or knowledge. 13 years could mean you've worked in the field and gathered experience and honed your expertise.

[@Arcflash_02]

That's why I always give a solid 80% effort. Running at 100% is an easy burnout then you're running at like 30%. Not to mention that once they figure out your 100%, they'll always demand it and once you burn out, you're fired for not producing like you used to

[@ChrisZukowski88]

thats what i tell everyone even the foremen, right to their faces too. Nobody can work at 100% every day or else they will burn out. There was a saying at my job "today the record, tomorrow the standard". The amount of times i heard "thats all you did today?! But yesterday you did much more!".

[@jessiesratrods1210]

Being punished for going fast is how retail companies pay thier workers.

[@robjsmiles]

Oh, you got everything done efficiently? Here is more work for the same money

[@iBleed_RoyLty4368]

I left Target for this reason. I learn quickly. I can stock so quick and line everything up uniform style, like I'm at home...I do this home daily lol. I was moving the most and quickest on the line. When I got my assignments done faster than everyone else? More work AND petty critiques. I get extra work done? Everyone else benefits because now I'm told to help them.

[@JRMCNEA]

That was before they realized they could give us 4 jobs and we would work them for one pay check.

[@RenyxGhoul]

In retail you will never be able to progress, neither in hospitality or something more process based. Any job that could be replaced by robots in the future, the employers currently would not give a crap how fast or slow it can be completed as long as it is.

[@zer0strike176]

​@@robjsmiles which is why everyone tells the new employees to slow down because doing the work faster doesn't benefit the employees.

[@ywtcc]

Hourly jobs have incentives that are aligned with being some kind of attendant. Some jobs do work like that, it's more about coverage than productivity. On the other hand, most real jobs are a mix. I think hourly wages are part of a good incentive structure, but definitely not the only piece.

[@toolazyforthis3164]

This is actually a huge problem in the American construction industry. A lot of contracts decide pay based on how long it takes rather than how good the final product is, this is one of the reasons a lot of projects go over schedule and over budget.

[@hellacoorinna9995]

Hence, why companies doing jobs for government work (ie: fixing the roads) take forever to do it.

[@MonkeyWrench1]

This is why I won't work most jobs. I'd end up leaving because the bosses DO NOT know how the system works.

[@MedievalSolutions]

Once I saw one of those contractors arguing under a video about the construction of chinese dams (for hydro power). The dude was so adamant about how going over budget and over schedule is just necessary when you have to do the job right and how those dams will fall apart. I wonder if they repeat the dance so hard they convince themselves.

[@poisonpotato1]

My experience most contractors make money by bidding based on the construction plans not how long it takes them

[@ABCivilConsulting]

What are you talking about? Rarely is payment ever tied to how long it takes