Shimano 105 12 speed Mechanical: No longer the People's groupset!

[@bennettshfd2]

Fully fine with the 11 speed mechanical 105.

[@esotericist]

ditto w a 10 speed ultegra mech

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@jarhead4657]

The 12 speed is better. Better shifting and braking. Less disc rub.

[@stanislavkindiakov6334]

@@jarhead4657it can not have better shifting, because steps between speeds are smaller and require higher precision

[@lexington476]

Same. I have a 2018 felt fr5, with 11 speed 105 mechanical and rim brakes. It's a well worn drivetrain at this point, but the bike going to undergo a major overhaul and refit over the winter. It hasn't been my primary bike since I damaged the frame, that's going to get repaired over the winter as well, it's not that bad. I've been riding a Tarmac sl6 this year, and that's tiagra 10 speed.

[@StevenMiller-kc6ym]

I’ve been riding the 105 12 speed mechanical for a couple of months and find it flawless. The shifting is crisp and fast and smooth. The breaking is fine. For a 70-year-old rider the 11-36 cassette is wonderful. I’ve been riding Shimano all my riding life and it feels totally intuitive. For someone that rides in the winter and often has to use mittens in New England, mechanical shifting is the only way to go. I consider electronic shifting, but I know it’s more finicky when it comes to riding with mittens. I would recommend the 12 speed mechanical 105 group sent to anyone. To me it rides better than my old Ultegra group chat from 10 years ago.

I ride SRAM AXS with 3-finger mittens and have zero issues reliably operating the shifters. Anyway, huge kudost to you for riding a bike all year long at the age of 70. I hope to be at this level when I'm 70 😊

[@rhythmace1]

SRAM's simple 2-paddle system should present no problem for gloved fingers. There's only 1 on each side, no danger of getting mixed up. That said, I just passed up the chance to get it on my new Endurace for just £377 extra and have gone with 105 mechanical instead.

[@batmonkey]

This groupset makes sense to me. As an older, experienced cyclist, I recently bought 11-speed Ultegra with hydraulic disc brakes and mechanical shifting - I think it's a logical choice if you generally prefer mechanical gear you can service yourself but are resigned to most new frames and wheels being made for disc brakes.

[@ashurany]

I'm a fan of 105 11spd mech. Been running 105 for awhile on my two road bikes and have a complete unboxed group for the future. And the brakes work fantastic.

[@doctorscoot]

Well, I'm a Shimano boy through and through and always have been. I still ride 11 speed mechanical / hydraulic 105. The Shimano shifting for me seems absolutely natural. I should point out that every time I've touched SRAM I've absolutely hated it. With the hydraulic disk brake feel, I'd call it progressive -- the more you squeeze the more you stop. On/Off brake feel only works with ABS (lol)! I've considered upgrading to the 12 speed mechanical 105 just to get the extra gear. I don't know how I feel about Di2, I've only ridden it briefly. But I do know it's basically twice as expensive -- I wouldn't upgrade to it, but obviously my next _new_ bike will come with Di2 of some sort, but I'm not really motivated to buy a new bike right now.

[@thegoodwheel]

Good insights. Thanks for sharing 👍🏾

[@ayowser01]

Same here; an 11-30 cassette with an added 34/36 cog would be nice.

[@doctorscoot]

@@ayowser01 yes, exactly. although sometimes tempted to go to a 12-speed cassette with the minimum range, just to get the absolutely 'chef's kiss' perfect cadence. ;-)

[@EddyCat1234]

I’ve got the 11 speed 105 and DA disc mechanical groupsets. Apart from weight the 105 works as well as the DA except for the crankset. The 105 crankset is to ‘flexi’ and I updated it with a DA 12 speed crankset. If you are a strong fit rider I recommend this upgrade. Also, the new 12 speed brake callipers are better than the 11 speed versions as they tend to rub less - basically more margin for error if the callipers are not set up perfectly. As a side note, I have 2 other bikes with DA 12 speed Di2 and SRAM Red ASX. My view is you don’t really need electronic groupsets. If you have the spare cash go for it but don’t feel like you are missing out on some sort of performance gain if you are on mechanical. Electronic is marginally ‘cleaner’ when shifting as the mechanical version can go out of tune as the cable stretches over time, no big deal tho. I personally prefer DA Di2 over ASX due to shift speed and battery life. AXS does have a brake advantage with the new lever but Shimano is still fantastic. Great channel Luis, keep up the good work Mate

[@doctorscoot]

@@EddyCat1234 thanks for the excellent advice - currently I run Magene PES power meter crank but maybe will upgrade to 4iiii equipped dura-ace when I get the 105 12 spd mechanical ;)

[@matthewmasters]

About a year ago I specified 105 12-speed mechanical for my new Fairlight road bike, in preference to Di2 Ultegra funnily enough. In part because I'm just not that interested in electronic shifting and in part so I could use the money saved for a wheel upgrade, which makes a whole lot more difference to my riding experience. Performance-wise the 105 is way better than I am. Shifting is a touch heavier than the SRAM Force 1x11 mechanical (Double-tap) on my previous bike, and the brakes feel a little different, but overall it's actually better than the older Dura-Ace on one of my other bikes. That said, if I could have specified SRAM Force 1x11 mechanical again, I would have (not available any longer, alas). To answer your question about why mechanical shifting with hydraulic brakes; I like carbon wheels and I like to stop. Rim brakes with carbon wheels are a sketchy mess.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing. To your final point, I felt like that market would choose mech/hydro brakes. But I understand the levers don't facilitate that.

[@matthewmasters]

I'm not sure why anybody would choose cable/hydro hybrid if full hydro is available. It's just a horrible compromise. If 105 mech was cable brake only, I'd probably have swallowed my dislike of the thumb lever and gone with Campag :)

[@timbo1980]

I love Shimano & my 105 11-speed and I think this version is a solid value-proposition, especially given the lack of mechanical options. But I do agree with your point about where this sits in the market - making this an Ultegra mechanical would not only put it more in line with Campag Record & SRAM Force, but would also appeal more to serious riders who don't want the 105 badge. It could also be priced the same as 105 Di2 to give people a straight choice but keep them loyal to Shimano...

[@jpm5958]

I ride Shimano and SRAM. I may be an exception but I find it takes me about 5 minutes to make the shift and then I'm good. I also ride flip flopped brakes and have no issue riding 'standard' breaks. That said, I've tried drumming and can't separate hand and foot movement. And on guitar, I can't sing and play anything more than simple chord progressions. I guess we all have our own things.

[@Angieboy173]

I just subscribed. Very thoughtful and rational discussion on these groupsets. I have a 105 mech group set and disc brakes. Seems totally natural to me but now a I am intrigued with the others. Looking forward to more videos! Thanks

[@thegoodwheel]

@@Angieboy173 thank you for supporting our channel👍🏾

[@denisspratt926]

I think the Shimano Cues when they finally come with the gravel/road version of that will take over as "Groupset of the People". Have heard rumors that it will come with hydraulic disc brakes and a Di2 version will also come. And it is supposed to be cheaper than 105. So that sounds like a good deal to me. But we will have to wait a few months yet I think. Personally I have a bike with Campagnolo Ekar and one with Shimano Ultegra. The Ultegra is a 2x11 mechanical and rim brakes. I prefer the Ekar, but both are great to ride. Nice video though.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing Denis. Yeah, we'll have to see what comes down the pike next.

[@jeremyemilio9378]

Waiting for it to trickle down to claris di2😅😂

[@thedownunderverse]

Di2 Cues? Really?

[@denisspratt926]

@@thedownunderverse yeah Cade Media a British cycling channel talked about it last week. After Cube bikes had leaked images of a new bike with Shimano Cues on it.

They better show it before Microshift makes a hydraulic version of Sword.

[@228slide]

I still use front derailer 105 with disc brakes and it runs great. No need to upgrade

[@paceline]

Needing two hands to shift anything sounds like insanity. I prefer Shimano because I can ride fully with one hand.

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@terrillford7784]

Facts

[@macimages4215]

You’ve never ridden in real cold with thick gloves.

[@rhythmace1]

You don't, you only need the one appropriate hand for the direction you want to shift in. And any absence of availability of one hand is temporary.

[@ronvincentrepunte1179]

I just want to share my opinion, i have a 7900 dura ace 10 speed , and 11 speed 105 r7000 love it , shifts so smooth. And i still love rim break but reality is the industry is already into hydraulic disc brakes, so va benne. 😊 Yes i still want to get this, because of the price point , electronic groupset are very expensive, and hard to maintain and its expensive to maintain it as well ,seen it and observe it base from my friends and I have seen alot of my friends "got drop" because of lowbat or forgot to charge, and for long rides personally I dont want to think about those things, or worse experience it. Like going uphill and it suddenly will not shift because of low bat or whatever, i dont want the hassle of it 😂✌🏻 For mechanical groupset, as far as my experience go , It is just ride and go. And it is easy to maintain, not that expensive, and it has +1 gear, the more the merrier. Haha 😂☺️ I mean riding bike should be fun and "worry free". But it is only my opinion, if you have the money to buy and maintain a very fancy electronic groupset no body is stopping. 🙌🏻

[@Endorfinjunkie]

The funny thing is, that electronic group sets are cheaper to produce because the shifters themselves only contain a number of buttons instead of a complicated mechanical actuator mechanism. They are marketed as more fancy and modern which is why the manufacturers are asking for a higher price and the customers obviously are willing to pay them.

[@brockjennings]

I occasionally ride my SRAM Red 10-speed, but mainly ride a couple of Di2 Ultegra disc bikes. It's kinda of nice to go back to the analog SRAM double taps and rim brakes occasionally. Sort of a cycling pallette cleanser in a way.

[@rocknroling6869]

Love your content. I just got into cycling a year ago, and all the different groupsets where a bit overwhelming. So I bought an entry level bike and it came with Shimano Claris, a year later I am still really enjoying cycling and rode a bike with 105 and I loved it. The shifting was smooth, the jumps between gears was less drastic, and the breaks were more responsive than mechanical disc. The only bikes in my area that come with SRAM groupsets are gravel bikes and so Shimano is pretty much all we have to get used to. I was looking to upgrade mine to 105, but after all the cost of parts and labor, I just bough a new bike with 105. For me it's great, but that could be because I haven't been exposed to the other brands groupsets and if I do, it may be just as weird for me as Shimano was for you. Keep up the videos, I really love your content and your information of dos and don'ts of group rides has been REALLY helpful.

[@thegoodwheel]

Awesome to hear you're getting so much out of cycling! Thanks for watching 👍🏾

[@1vwbuff]

Built a bike for touring and will not always have a way to charge batteries. Mechanical shifting is easier to repair in the middle of nowhere .

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@thaddeusbarrick8432]

That or spend a fortune on batteries

[@russellbryant2273]

Yup. Thats the last thing they want you to do. Now the bike controls the rider...

[@dennishughes721]

If I ever upgrade from my 2017 Cannondale Ultegra I would prefer a mechanical not something I have to charge occasionally.

[@mustacherides420]

If I was in the market for a 12 speed road groupset, I'd consider it for sure. I always build up my bikes from the frame and choose everything very carefully. The main reason I stayed with 11 speed is that cross compatibility between SRAM and Shimano components means which chain, cassette or chainring I use is just a matter of picking what I like and installing it.

[@BrianRPaterson]

Luis. I can't comment on Campy. But, I haven't had any issues swapping between SRAM and Shimano. I rode a mechanical SRAM "double tap" CX1 11-speed system for a year. It took 5 minutes to get used to it, and after that, I seldom gave it any further thought. But, the brakes kept dying on me. So my LBS helped me to replace the CX1 with a Shimano 11-speed mechanical GRX drive train. Also took about 5 mins to adjust to a swivelling brake lever and the small shifter paddle. Haven't thought about it since. Electronic shifting might be different. But for mechanical, I almost didn't notice the difference.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing your experience Brian👍🏾

[@ollieswindow]

I'm currently running Shimano 12 speed Dura Ace disc. If I had to choose between E-shifting and disc brakes, I'd choose the disc brakes. On my older bike with 105 all mechanical, the thing I appreciate most is the mech. shifting and ability to cross chain small/small. I can actually downshift multiple cogs more quickly than the electronic will allow. E-shifting is nice, but no better than mech. in my opinion and has unfortunate limitations as described above.

[@andreturnerjr8950]

I have 5 bikes and I can't be bothered to keep track of battery levels for each one. So, I'm good with mechanical shifting. As far a disc brakes, I mostly mountain bike so I'm very comfortable with them. 12 speed 105 makes perfect sense to me considering ultegra is electric 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@rejean2744]

My new bike has 105 Di2, the "old" one Mech. 105 .....Having been out of the cycling world for almost 20 years , until 5 years ago, I find them both to be so nice. Di2 is a step up but Mech 105 is better than good. I have no experience with other group sets. I do not understand anyone preferring rim brakes over disc.

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@Jacob99174]

Completely agree, Luis!

[@barryrobbins7694]

I’ve never ridden with Campagnolo. I have, however, ridden with Shimano mechanical, SRAM mechanical and SRAM electric. I prefer systems like Campagnolo mechanical and Shimano mechanical. Shimano mechanical requires different levers and different actions for upshift vs downshift. Campagnolo also shares this destinction, even though the ergonomics are different. Such systems are really good for muscle memory. It’s possible to adapt to any system, but a lot of it has to do with what system one starts with, and how long one has been using it. It can be difficult to retrain engrained muscle memory.

[@thegoodwheel]

Yep, there is definitely a bit of learning curve.

[@luisfernandezquero5787]

Absolutely happy with my 105 mechanical with hydraulic discs. Though I'm still using 11s. I would probably happy with 12s.

[@christophercarson8280]

Running shimano mechanical 105's groupset on one of my road bikes 2x11, love it

[@jaimecastillo7690]

You are correct. I use to all 3 groupset 😅 however, now I am used to Sram now, I will recommend only for beginners😊

[@simonwarmer8777]

Hahaha, the face being pulled by saying:, I’m starting to get used to hydraulic brakes.

[@thegoodwheel]

I know, right?!

[@mathewrose2951]

I have Campy SuperRecord mechanical with the thumb shifters on the bike I keep in the US, but I ride Shimano DuraAce during the parts of the year when I'm overseas (Middle East and South America) because I just need to know that I'll be able to find replacement parts in most countries around the world. That's where Campy comes up short, despite being my favorite ergonomically. Whenever I get my next overseas bike, though, I'm probably going to look for 105 hydraulic mechanical exactly because of serviceability (the DuraAce crank recall and cassette failures have put me off of wanting top spec Shimano for a while).

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing your insights 👍🏾

[@Arznix]

I think you made the point that a big cross section of performance bike riders are older., as a result we have less spare time. I prefer mechanical because I don't want to cancel a ride because I forgot to charge the system. I am lucky if I get out 3 days during the week consistently and one long ride on the weekend during the season. Also if I am bike touring for an extended tour I don't want to be searching for a place to charge. I am also old enough to remember servicing bikes on my own. I don't want to be servicing them every few months, but I definitively want to do the work so I can monitor any issues with the bike, I know hydraulic is the trend for brakes, but I prefer mechanical or at least mechanical/hydraulic hybrid brakes where the fluid is in the caliper. Keep in mind I also prefer rim brakes, a fading option on bikes, for their simplicity of maintenance so I a really old schools I guess.

[@thegoodwheel]

What you've described is a fading quantity, and manufacturers know this. They can literally wait us out.

[@Arznix]

@@thegoodwheel Unfortunately, that seems to be the prevailing attitude of the industry. I hope there is a middle ground. The manufacturers got stuck with a lot of inventory that no one wanted to buy or at least pay what they were asking for in the last year or so. Hopefully some manufacturers have learned to listen to their customer a little more. Affordable. low maintenance and reliable still have a place. There is a place for the old tried and true technology though I own some newer bikes with the latest and greatest also. I still ride my old racing bikes from the mid-80s. I rode at Belgian Waffle San Diego on a Italian, aluminum Alan and Crusher In the Tushar on a Vitus 979, so old reliable and proven technology still has it place. Both have down tube shifters and rim brakes. Though talking to some of the younger riders I was surprise to realize I was riding what they consider "antiques". Being over 60 I guess I am an antique also. I still remember a quote from my racing day "You can't win if you can't finish". Old and reliable has it place even today.

[@franzkappel6206]

Keep building and thank you

[@VirtualDogWalks]

I always view the group set as a consumable. 105 hydro mechanical fits perfectly with that ethos meaning when components to need replacing it doesn’t cost a fortune. Showcase group-sets for showcase bikes but this is perfect for all year riding along with SLX for the MTB 👍

[@eto2352]

105 Mechanical is for OEM and to meet a pricepoint. 105 Di2 really is the new "groupset of the people". Despite the cost, that's where the industry is. 105Di2 has amazing value to performance and road bikes equipped w/ Di2 come in anywhere from $3000 on up. Anyone wanting cheap can look to Chinese brands and sacrifice a lot of things but 105 represents the best shifting and quality. It's still a great deal that stands out with very little compromise from top spec Dura Ace.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts 👍🏾

[@montrose252]

Long live rim brakes and mechanical shifting! I have 11 speed rim brake mechanical ULTEGRA. I will NEVER buy another bike as long as this one keeps going. It's the last of the dinosaurs!

[@stanislavkindiakov6334]

Exactly! I have three bikes on 11 speed mech, so I have replacement parts for life

[@NicholausLarge-tg4wf]

I was trained on Shimano, so, yes, going back and forth between SRAM and Campy takes a bit to get used to. However, it typically only takes my a couple of minutes to get adjusted. If I had to choose “intuitiveness” among the three, I’d definitely say SRAM has it. Especially, if you’re talking about a newbie, SRAM would make more sense to control. Personally, yes, I would purchase the groupset, BUT only if I was running rim brakes with a “normal” setup.

[@bb-r5710]

I only rode Campy record nine for many years currently I am riding SRAM. The transition was easy for me. ❤❤ I have not ridden the Shimano group set.

[@thegoodwheel]

Nice! Thanks for sharing 👍🏾

[@cycleoflife565]

Will you be giving a review of your experience with the Basso Vento? They have been on my radar for a few years and I find them to be very attractive design wise and something different from the mainstream.

[@LOGICAL-JAY]

Here we go with the campagnola snobs...😂😂😂..

[@ryancraig2795]

I just got my first new road bike this year after a few years on a used Giant Defy with an old 3x9 groupset (Sora, maybe) that kinda sucked. My new bike came with 105 12 speed mechanical. Took no time at all for the shifters to become initiative, and after a little tweaking, performs great. Love the 11-36 cassette on the steepest climbs. DI2 was a bit spendy for me, and honestly i don't see what advantage i would get from it, other than not having shifter cables routed internally through the frame and headset. The brakes are powerful and easily modulated.

[@Thetoad738]

I'm thinking of building up a frame from Velobuild, I'm thinking of Mircoshift Sword, would you consider doing a review? Yours in Campagnolo

[@VDub31]

Ultegra di2 here. The push button is just fast and accurate. Granted I’ve never ridden anything else. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@StevenMichaelWilsonJr]

Shimano Is King and Shimano 105 is STILL the peoples Champ!!!

[@gerrysecure5874]

For mechanical groupsets, Campagnolos shift system using the thumb is infinitely better.

[@JibbaJabber]

Funny thing. I did something similar a few years back, when Ultegra R8020 Disc Brake 11 Speed first came out. Didn't want to spend the extra cash on the Di2 version, which was twice the cost. So bought mechanical, and spent the spare cash on wheels. Have not regretted it one bit. Works flawlessly when set up properly and has a polished feel. Would I do the same if I was in the market for 12 speed. Yes, but only if I felt the price differential was favourable, and I wanted/needed to spend the money elsewhere.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing your insights 👍🏾

[@dvs70]

I have: Ultegra 12spd Di2, 11spd Hydraulic/mechanical Ultegra, & 11sp Campagnolo full mechanical. They each have characteristics I love & swapping bikes is seamless. The Campagnolo equipped bike is my favorite to ride. I only ride the Di2 bike when I want to go fast. The other Ultegra is my gravel mullet build.

[@jamescourier1545]

I find Shimano mechanical road shifting to be absolutely intuitive & it performs flawlessly. (GRX 12 speed) I have always been opposed to electronic shifting but i need to experience it- currently building a Di2 road bike. 😃 Subscribed.

[@co7013]

I also used Campagnolo for years and I loved it. Now I have been on SRAM for years (mechanical). Also fine. I also had Shimano. The shifting is OK, but I always disliked the moving brake levers. Brake levers should only be moving in one direction! I guess that's solved in the Di2, which I will never get, but also it doesn't look very pleasant to just have 2 buttons next to each other. For me, mechanical shifting and hydraulic braking actually seems the way to go! If I wear buying a new bike, I would probably get this groupset.

[@stephenerickson8107]

I was shopping for a bike last winter and when Cervelo had a build of Soloist frame with Reserve carbon 44/40 wheels and 105 mechanical for 4K USD it was a no-brainer. I am not disappointed. I see it now retails for 4.5K so I think I made the right call.

[@narcolonarcolo]

Hi Luis. I have an event coming up with a lot of climbing and descending. I have rim brakes with carbon wheels. Do you have any tips? My local riding is mostly flat or short hills so brake fade isn't an issue but I am a bit nervous about brake fade on the long descents I will encounter. Wheels are enve SES if that matters. Thanks

[@peterwatson9047]

I ride both road and MTB and my mountain bikes have had hydraulic brakes and mechanical shifting for about 20 years, albeit the brakes have not been part of the 'groupset' and the shifting and braking levers have always been entirely separate. So it makes sense to me. I still ride an old road bike with rim brakes and 10 speed shinano, I'd go disk brake for any new replacement road bike but would prefer to keep the shifting mechanical. I dont race or even do long rides these days.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing your experience 👍🏾

[@jurgenlitz6562]

I love both the rival on my gravel and the 105 at the roadbike

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@byrondixon4648]

Good content. 'Becoming one with your shifting'. Ive ridden 11 speed mechanical Shimano for the majority of the last 5 year's. Recently changed to Di2 12 speed for main bike. Had it for about a month and I'm still very much 'thinking' how to shift. Rode a Campy 12 speed electrical group set and never felt comfortable. Who is 105 for???? Great question. I think Tiagra is all anyone needs as far as mechanical shifting. Lots of options to upgrade the cranks to make the group set lighter.

[@jimmansi1187]

I love my 105 & don’t care what any other riders think as it works flawlessly, I’ve never missed a shift!

[@thegoodwheel]

It is a great groupset. Thanks for sharing.

[@nerigarcia7116]

I've had Shimano on all my bikes and I loved their design, quality, and shifting smoothness, but I've become a SRAM convert mainly for the wireless system but also for the intuitive nature in which it works. Go left up the cassette, press left. Go right, press right. While having bikes with Shimano and SRAM, I was able to go back and forth between the two pretty easily, but the SRAM system was just more simple and that's what made me convert all my bike to SRAM. I wasn't a fan of their Double Tap mechanical but their AXS is superb. I have a bike with SRAM Red mechanical and I've even come to like the Double Tap now. I'd rather have a fixed brake lever than one that pivots inward.

[@rolffuchs2737]

I have 105 DI2 on my Orea Orca Aero and it is fantastic.

[@thegoodwheel]

Nice! Thanks for sharing 👍🏾

[@fennieyuen]

I actually was super excited when the mechanical 12s 105 came out, and I bought it off the shelf to build up my new bike. Which is the steel Cinelli vigorelli disc. I wanted steel, and first time going disc

[@thegoodwheel]

Nice! Genuine question for you. Was cable actuated disc brakes a consideration. I've been having lots of conversations on this subject.

[@fennieyuen]

@thegoodwheel I wanted hydrolics for more stopping power, especially for wet weather. I used to run carbon rim brakes, which totally sucks in the rain. I live in the city, so plenty of traffic lights. That means many start stops. If I am going to build a steel touring bike, then I will go for cable brakes, for easier maintenance and fixes if I need to swop out a cable

[@TODOITALIA]

Luis what do you prefer in mechanical groupsets? Shimano or Campagnolo? I am a campy guy but I want to hear your opinion.

[@thegoodwheel]

I prefer Campy. I think the Shimano systems work fine, especially the last Dura Ace mech... but I prefer the ergonomics, aesthetics and lever actuation on Campy.

[@christopherharmon9336]

I think there are a few possibilities for the "Groupset of the people" title. I'm looking at this from a perspective of people who are not competitive racers. (1) Tiagra 10-speed. (2) 10-speed, 2x, GRX. Primarily because the 10-speed GRX is rated for an 11-36 cassette. If I had somebody who was brand NEW to cycling (I live in Colorado) I'd probably recommend a gravel bike, due to the lower gearing. I personally feel most people here would be better off starting with a 46-30 crank. (3) Microshift Advent X or Sword. 1x simplicity, and low gearing for climbs. Again-to get people started in the sport, in Colorado. (4) Cues, when/if Shimano produces a drop-bar option.

[@thegoodwheel]

Cues is coming up a lot in 5his comment section. We'll really have to wait and see.

[@zhuyufan1186]

I hope you guys can get your hands on a set of polarway shifter, then mix it with shimano's R7000 front and rear mech, r8100's cassette and chain (if you have to go HG+, r7100 will be cheaper if you dont need HG+ function), maybe a 105 crank if you have to. Then you can get the ultimate poor man's mechanical groupset combo (rim brake and mechanical disk of course, but rumor has it they are going to produce hydro brake lever in the future). I brought up polarway's shifter because for whatever reason, they can produce shimano sti style lever legally in China and these shfiter cost half of what a set of R7000 lever cost, and operate just like a shimano..

[@katerinazhu6268]

do you mean LTWOO?

[@olekmarynski]

I would say that if you have a disc brake frameset and still want to enjoy mechanical shifting this would be my first choice. Although I am using right now R7000 in my CAAD3 with rim brakes so I might be biased ;)

[@WattsOnTheUp]

Zero issues switching between Shimano and SRAMl I always know I ride SRAM because the front derailleur will overshift and drop the chain.

[@klcbsoft]

I'm a rim break guy too, and that means that the purchase of any groupset from Shimano or SRAM is pretty much impossible nowadays (as they are either electric, or hydraulic/disc break). I have a lot of top-noth parts from the "golden era", to wit: everything Ultegra R8000. For me that's the pinnacle of reliability, shifting performance and value for money. There are also Tiagra and 105 parts around, and they all perform beautifully. Shimano, SRAM Campa lost me a bit. On my 10000 km a year I have not felt the need for 12 speed, e-shifting or disc breaks yet. Talking of breaks: carbon rims with special break pads here. A day ago a car out of a driveway "surprised" me and I had to break so hard that the handlebars began to roll down (5 nm per screw meant nothing to the bars). Yet, I stopped properly and clear of the car. That's enough breaking power for me and I am a 230lbs whale on the road. To me it's more a matter of good components used than specific system for shifting or breaking. PS: good video and discussion of the groupset topic. Thanx for sharing.

[@yankeed4793]

Recently moved to a new enduro Look 765 with 105 12spd mech & discs - not as fast as my trek 5200 was but is awesomely more comfortable and still faster than me. I just didn’t want to deal with batteries or the extra $1k, and while I might need to fiddle with mech and cable adjustments at times, it’s the devil I know. Shifting is solid and smooth and love the extra gear range. I have done seasonal back and forth between SRAM and Shimano on trainer bike and outdoor bike for a long time, so once the muscle memory comes back, the different lever actions are not a problem. I always liked the SRAM double tap - easier to do it than describe it - but switching between SRAM/Shimano was never a big issue. The disc brakes were scarier for me and I was ready to hate on them or, at best, just not care. First rides seemed a bit fiddly and grabby - uh oh. Got one brake topped off and invested the time in bedding pads and rotors. After a few more rides, huge improvement - love ‘em now, never go back. Someone on the thread described it as a “progressive” feel. Just more confident with them now and love how I don’t “feel” the braking anymore. I just slow down. Maybe check back in with me when I have to do a full bleed on them the first time, but I enjoy new skills😁. No one size for everyone, but count me as a happy 105 12 spd mech with discs customer. Took me a bit to figure out that your issue wasn’t with 105 12 speed being mechanical, but that it only comes with the option of disc brakes or dragging your feet - even fixies have the option to just stop pedaling. Fair enough criticism. As noted, I drank the pink hydraulic koolaid and am very happy, but time may tell. Appreciated the video and raises good points for folks to consider before investing. Ride on!

[@thegoodwheel]

Great post! Thank you for watching and sharing your insights 👍🏾

[@shrkys4]

I think the groupset for the people will be a second hand Ultegra R8000 or 6800, way lighter than the new 105 and probably better all around build. Maybe except for the larger cassette and crank length options in the new 105...I wish Shimano was able to do the cassette dumps that Campy can do, that's my only gripe with Shimano since STI has been around, the infinite clicking gear per gear of the small lever...Campy, one deep click of the right thumb lever and you're in full attack gear, or into your low gear combo simultaneously up front and rear with both levers...so sweet!

[@jackiewong0806]

I've 4 bikes with Sram AXS and 2 with Shimano (Di2 and mechanical). The Shimano mechanical one is my commuter bike. I almost mis-shifted my Sram bikes after commuting on it for a few days🤣 I do agree Sram's shift logic is more intuitive, although one drawback with it is when you only have one hand available, e.g., pushing kids, you can only downshift or upshift.

[@romansokolov6893]

105 is in the weird spot at the moment. Electronic version costed me about 150€ more, which is a fraction of the build price of a midrange bike, so why even bother buying 105 mechanical, when you can buy electric? I bought 105 di2 and I truly struggle to see the point of the mechanical group set. Shifting wise it is very simple for someone who rode shimano for the majority of time, so it doesn’t feel unintuitive:)

[@radlercycles5482]

As a bike mechanic I always want a groupset to be serviceable in the field. Electronic shifting works well enough for the person who mainly rides fair weather and carries an extra battery. If your brakes need bleeding while on the road, the average rider is pretty much screwed. I'd prefer mechanical disc brakes, then at least I can repair it while I'm on a ride. I consider myself an old school rider, (my current group is dura ace 7800) but seeing the advances in the technology in my industry (even as a bike mechanic) makes it feel like the soul has been taken out of the mid-range groupsets. Great work as always. I'm still waiting for you to come to the dark side and try a Velomobile whenever you get the chance. Much love

[@jaredjackson8097]

If you need to bleed brakes while on the road, the person who built the bike is at fault.

[@radlercycles5482]

Any person who has any mechanical knowledge knows that heat can expand the material responsible for the containment of the hydraulic fluid. If you are on long descents with a rotor that is to small then the access heat can, and sometimes will, lead to brake failure. It's not only my opinion but science. Hell it can even happen to your car ( a lot less likely true, but possible.) not to mention glassing of your brake surface reduces the performance of your brakes. Hydraulic disc brakes aren't invincible. And proper maintenance is always the responsibility of the owner and not the mechanic.

[@radlercycles5482]

@@angry_tardigrade and yes I've been at MTB and cyclocross events where a bleed was necessary for the rider. It happens more often than you think.

[@jaredjackson8097]

@@radlercycles5482just tell us you either can’t build a bike or you cannot descend/brake properly. Why the hell are you cooking the brakes that bad? Bleeding brakes while on a bike ride? Are you serious? Just spreading fud.

[@jaredjackson8097]

@@radlercycles5482it may be necessary at events due to atmospheric pressure changes. This is common at downhill events. But you said on a bike a ride. You should be doing all that before the ride, if it is even an issue. Stop spreading BS. If I leave my house and I need to bleed my brakes out on a ride, I’m a terrible mechanic and need to step away from the tools. Something wasn’t done right.

[@Khalidazizphoto]

I switched from a gravel bike (canyon) with grx800 groupset, to a endurance bike (specialized) with 105groupset and you can definitely feel that the grx800 groupset the descend from the Ultegra groupset. The 105, doesn't work as smooth

[@Pmor75]

Horses for courses, I think that the value proposition lies on the OEM manufacturing side of things. Brands can significantly lower the entry point with this new groupset. To buy it has an Upgrade will be perhaps more difficult to justify. Shimano should have a 12 speed rim brake version tough, that would attract more buyers for sure.

[@SkyFalllast]

I am new to road cycling and bought a Giant Propel adv 2. It came with the 105, I've had the bike not even two months and I have gears not shifting properly. I'm not certain on the longevity of it or if I may have gotten a lemon. I'm just shy of 300 miles. I hope this isn't another industry with planned obsolescence.

[@irondistance4313]

I grew up on shimano so their system is ok but yeah it’s wierd, I have SRAM AXS on my road bike it is super easy. I’m getting a new bike this week with campy centaur new old stock and I’m excited to ride it

[@tmswfrk]

Your point about SRAM hit home! I test rode a bike for like, 30 mins and was thinking about SRAM when riding my Shimano for what felt like weeks. It was weird, haha. Still like Shimano generally, but yeah, SRAM is a trip.

[@thegoodwheel]

Yes, for sure. Thanks for watching 👍🏾

[@keithhunter3910]

My Lynskey R300 is built up with Dura Ace 11 speed mechanical shifting/hydraulic brakes, and I just bought a Lynskey GR300 with SRAM electronic shifting/hydraulic brakes. It's my first Sram road group and first non-mechanical gruppo in 40+ years of riding, racing, and touring. It took me all of five minutes to get used to the levers. So now have spare batteries in my saddle bag. 🙄 I haven't ridden Campy in over twenty years, but I prefer its lever setup over Sram and Shimano. That thumb drop is so easy and intuitive.

[@thegoodwheel]

That SRAM method just works. Thanks for sharing 👍🏾

[@Chungleas]

As much as I like 105, I do question this "groupset of the people" thing, I'd say 105 has historically been the "aspirational" group that you buy because ultegra is a bit too expensive. The actual "Groupset of the people" (IMO) was Tiagra R4720/4700, did everything R7000/7020 did with one less sprocket. Unfortunately it's being discontinued and if you're not up for spending 105 money, you get CUES now...

[@elioesposito8370]

To me Shimano STI levers and Campy's are quite intuitive, but I haven't tried Sram before (nor electronic systems). The difference between Camp and Shimano is that for Shimano you use your thumb on one and your middle finger on the other.

[@elioesposito8370]

But now that I think better. I'm talking about Ultegra 10 speed shifters, which are not the most comfortable tbh. However, something they got perfect is how your middle finger sits perfectly in the down-shifting lever. Another thing is that riding downtube shifters for years, every system just feels nicer. I love them, tho.

[@Archiconocido]

I have it on my new carbon bike. If I wanted di2 the same bike goes almost double in cost. So, it did make economic sense to me.

[@philippannawitt3606]

Luis, have you had issues with indexing? I heard that 12 speed mechanical is pushing the limits there. I am with you, if I want mechanical (and I love it), I go 11 speed rim brake, and don’t mix mechanical and hydraulic disc. I recently bought a new aero bike and I discarded all options with 105 12 speed mechanical. It makes no sense.

[@thegoodwheel]

As far as indexing. 12 speed is definitely more sensitive than 11 and may take a couple of attempts to get it right. But once it is set properly, it's good.

[@Endorfinjunkie]

In the shimano road ecosystem, using the smaller lever will put the chain on a smaller cog/chain ring, using the bigger lever week put it in a bigger cog/chain ring. What exactly is not intuitive about that?

[@ryanclose1]

All my bikes are some level of mech SRAM except my Tri-bike. I very much don't like having to move the entire shift lever like you do on mechanical Shimano. Plus, if you accidentally pull the brake lever a little, you can't shift on Shimano. I had a cross bike with 105 and hated racing on it.

[@Dimashoey]

I think 105 12s is marketed for the ultra cyclists who don’t want mess with electronic issues but wanting some upgrades. I just don’t think 11s to 12s justifies, maybe from the 10s tiagra

[@jackiegammon2065]

First off, I'm a Campy girl, so do not see myself changing or wanting disc brakes on a road bike. I do own a shop, so I see both sides of the the story.If I were to buy a road Shimano group, it would have to offer me mechanical shifting and rim brakes. My fatbike and mountain bikes do have disc brakes, but no electronic shifting... by choice. If the industry wants to continue to head in that direction, I'm ok with that as well, as I have enough road bikes to change brake calipers back and forth and plenty of cassettes waiting in line.I know that is "old school", but I should be able what "I" want and not what some company is telling me that I have to have.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing your perspective, I appreciate the insights.

[@johndaw7764]

That's braking modulation that Shimano, i thinnk, does better than SRAM. SRAM have always felt more on/off with braking vs Shimano

[@petersouthernboy6327]

I thought the same things - but I went to Swiss Side brake pads and it really improved modulation

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing, John. For my time with the bikes and going back and forth, the shimano system does not feel good... but that is just my experience.

[@johndaw7764]

@@thegoodwheel also, the Shimano organic pads works better than the metallic

[@jarhead4657]

Shimano had better braking and shifting hands down.

[@lexington476]

Oh yeah you're totally right about switching between manufacturers of group sets. I'm a Shimano man from the beginning, not really by choice that's just what my bike had and then I just stuck with it. I did have at one point a SRAM cyclocross bike years ago, and yeah going from my Shimano bikes to the SRAM cyclocross bike, yeah it was like totally different world, I could not shift the SRAM bike. So now, Shimano for life 🙂.

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@bengt_axle]

It's not the people's groupset. Rather, it is the producer's groupset. The bike industry wants a groupset they can throw on their entry level bikes and do so at a low price. OEM market demands hydraulic brakes because if that feature is not there the bike manufacturers believe (with reason, I think) that the consumer will just pass up on the bike and go for Tiagra or something else. Big Bike are probably getting the entire groupset for $250-$350 and they are going on bikes that will retail for $2900-$4000. As others have mentioned, CUES will take care of all speeds below 11 and there's even a Di2 version, so it will simplify the number of repair parts a shop has to source.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing 👍🏾

[@jarhead4657]

That’s sounds like a perfect description of a peoples group set.

[@cloudsmith7803]

@@jarhead4657 If I can get it for $250, I'll be a part of that group too!

[@hamedizzy5137]

I prettty sure they came out with the mechanical first then added the di2 in the 12s 105

[@newoldsteel]

Honestly, I do agree with how Shimano shifting isn't intuitive. I rode it exclusively for years, then due to budget reasons, when to downtube shifters (which is my preferred way of shifting) but then tried Sram and Sram just makes more sense. However, the Shimano Tourney shifters with the thumb shifting actually feels intuitive on my gravel bike. But I STILL haven't tried Campy yet but definitely will one day!

[@thegoodwheel]

Hey Brother, thanks for sharing your insights. The thumb shifter on Campy seemed so logical coming off downtube shifting. Hope you try it one day.👍🏾

[@man314sea9]

I bought the mech 105. I just love mechanical and there was no other choice. Rather than buying it in 11speed, I thought that 12speed would have more repair parts.

[@rothgartheviking858]

no need for hydro brakes. Would love a rim brake option.

[@timnortheytn]

AXS fails and it means a new rear mech. DI2 fails and its a tear down to find the loose wire. I've had hydro brakes since 2015 and only replaced the pads, never bled and work like new, never needing adjustment.

[@artoutlawphoto]

I will help you out. I recently bought sram apex mechanical 1x12. It works with my current bike it's disc brake, it's more modern than 1x11 it has a cassette 11-44 or 10-44, and paired with a 44 in the front I can say it's OK for a allroad bike. I also live in the alps and it's doing fine. I payed for this around 350-390€ I got to keep a lot of parts from the 1x11. Going electronic sram or Shimano would had cost me minimum 1200€ witch for a old bike Its not worth to invest. At least Shimano has a 2x mechanical. And for the alps I would never try rim brakes. I'm also coming from a background of mtb and I risk when I'm descending because I got used to.

[@artoutlawphoto]

One more think. I never buy complete groupsets. I buy by parts and sometimes you get cheap stuff. Like a sram force 1 carbon crank with 120€ included the bb, yes it's not dub it's pf30 but it works, and works also with 12 speed flat chain, witch sram says it's not compatible.

[@departurexx1520]

There are many cyclist out there who has a different perspective on "UPGRADING" their bike. I do have some rider from ultegra 11speed to 12speed 105 Di2. Some rider might think having a Di2 shifting is an upgrade. For me I won't be spending my money on a 105 Di2. I'll rather spend the money on a Mechanical 11speed Super Record if you frame allow. Many rider out there who still don't understand the important of groupset and the drivetrain. The material use on each groupset will give you a marginal gain when you ride. For example on a Super Record 11speed mechanical : 1.Carbon Crank 2. CULT bearing on your BB and PULLEY 3. Chain quality 4. Better Cassette built All this better material used will help your power transfer and a better quality ride. But for some rider, they going for tech because is the latest. The Di2 105 is waste of money and time, just my opinion.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing 👍🏾

[@anthonycattouse1841]

I recently upgraded my group set after 30 yrs mechanical to shimano Dura ace Di2 11 Aps shifter I’m not going back sweet and smooth a no brainer

[@ronaldweed6103]

Because of where i live, I'll start out with the 2025 FX-3 by Trek. . I hope to do this in January, or February. In to shift up,& pull towards me down shift. Ha! I hope i have this right. What you are speaking of seems forced on us, the consumer.

[@WoolyChewbakker]

Running bikes with Campag EPS, SRAM AXS, and Shimano 105. I prefer them in that order.

[@CyclingwithVovo]

Rim brakes and no issues braking etc.

[@p44doyle44]

The shifters equal the size of the cassette or chain ring small on the right shift to a smaller cog bigger one shift to a big bigger cog left hand, big paddle throw sent it to the big chain ring small paddle throw send it to the small chain ring took a while to realize it

[@jaytronzero]

11spd SRAM double tap mech here. My brain is too hard wired to double tap to move to anything else. 🤣 To add to your last point: yea if I was looking for a new groupset, I honestly would be looking for rim brake mechanical. I think I'm going to eventually to be pushed into disc brakes which I dunno if I want to? Guess I'm riding this CAAD10 forever lol. FWIW, my gravel bike is full mech, with mech disc.

[@thegoodwheel]

Nice. Check out my last video on gravel with mech groupset and mech disc.

[@jaytronzero]

@@thegoodwheel Hell yea, excited to! Love your content!

[@bx_cyclingchef]

I was that guy for 10 years, only rode mechanical 105 rim brake. Until recently, I decided to make the switch to electronic. One thing that stands out is the bike is heavier by just a few grams. And pricey af. The gears ⚙️ are harder when they need to be easy when they need to be.

[@thegoodwheel]

No doubt, the new stuff works👍🏾

[@michealofloinn2539]

105 is fine for me. I’ve got rim brakes. Don’t think I’d upgrade to disc just yet. I see where hydro disc would be good for me in wet Ireland☘️🇮🇪

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing 👍🏾

[@lexington476]

You know I've actually been riding and racing a Tarmac sl6 this year with tiagra mechanical 10 speed and hydraulic brakes. I've actually been very happy with that bike. Tiagra has come a long way since I last wrote it 20 years ago. What I prefer 11 or 12 speeds, yeah most definitely, but the gear mix I have on this bike that came default from specialized is good for me. it's the engine that needs more work not the bike 😊.

[@thegoodwheel]

👍🏾

[@ArthurFellig]

I feel the opposite about SRAM shifting. Having to shift with both hands is super annoying. I like to be able to shift up and down with one hand free.

[@thegoodwheel]

Thanks for sharing 👍🏾