Punished Heroes: The Men Stripped Of The Victoria Cross

[@davidcarr7436]

The fact that Ravenhill re-inlisted AFTER the injustice of forfeiting his VC should have been cause for its immediate return. Thanks for another great piece of little known history and not what I was expecting to learn.

re enlisted.

[@davidcarr7436]

lol

[@greenrosenz]

Britain has a terrible reputation of lack of care for it's military veterans. This continues today with, it seems, a number suffering from ptsd being homeless.

@@greenrosenz yeah we know...and even the uks most high profile veteran has been homeless...and there is 4 levels of PTSD...PTSD, CPTSD, then category 1a stressor and then category 1b at the top....the top two relate to certain profesisonals only servicemen and 1st responders

[@davidcarr7436]

@greenrosenz Unfortunately, Canada is no better.

[@johnbruce2868]

Unable to cope with civvy life? Struggling financially? Behaved with valour and distinction under fire? Subsequently committed petty crime? Wound up in the workhouse? Troubled, forgotten, abandoned and humiliated? Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Bless 'em all. Different times, but maybe not so different.

[@Sharpcarbon6]

Service men and women never get the support they need… Shame on the British gov. and us ALL 😢🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

[@mgway4661]

Dealing with this today

[@bass779]

The Irishman who stole a cow at the height of the famine was probably just starving, or watching loved ones starve

[@cyan_oxy6734]

​@@Sharpcarbon6 Shame on people who keep electing people who believe that it's ok to make people go to prison for having a substance use addiction. The evidence is everywhere that the laws now are empowering criminals, hurting families and keeping addicts out of treatment but they can't overcome their dogma. If they can't jail gays at least gotta jail the druggies, am I right?

[@murmor6890]

First case sounds a bit like he was maybe more than just comrades with Peel. Saving him, getting depressed over his death, vague disgraceful offence ... it is speculation but sounds like a broken heart to me.

[@robert-trading-as-Bob69]

Poor James Collis losing his VC for bigamy... surely having two (or more) wives in his life was punishment enough?

[@frakismaximus3052]

😂

[@dee4634]

Worse, he had 2 mother’s in law

[@82ismi]

​@@dee4634 That's worth another VC 😂

[@nicolad8822]

Sooo funny.

[@jamesjamieson6181]

​@@dee4634 les Dawson jokes have entered the chat 😂😂😂😂👍

[@jamesgarman4788]

Absolutely harsh to have their VCs stripped! I'm glad that King George V reinstated them. The only US Medal of Honors that were rescinded was because of the level of valor that did not rate the Medal of Honor. There was one individual, Sergeant Dwight Johnson, who won the Medal of Honor for his service in Vietnam, was shot for robbing a convenience store in 1971, he was still buried in Arlington with full military honors! Thanks for keeping their stories alive Chris and many thanks for posting!!

he didnt win the MOH it was awarded

[@stephenk578]

Love your channel! American here, I always appreciate British history as it's truly a shared history between our two nations. Your coverage on various peoples is so invaluable. Thank you for all that you do!

[@TheHistoryChap]

Very kind of you thanks. Drop me a line via my website with any topics you'd love me to cover (www.thehistorychap.com)

[@nehemiahmathews8683]

How many men or I should say people have been awarded the Victoria's cross since 1900

[@petertoner3160]

Its really 3 nations,but since the welsh,and Scottish bent the knee and kissed England's behind,I suppose your right in erasing them from history

[@alexandermayakovsky6550]

@@petertoner3160 - Might it be that the Scots got their knees bent for them by the Anglos? The latter were not shy in sending large armies northwards. Similarly so for Ireland. I read an academic book about Scottish enthno-attire which claimed that the kilt was an invention of the English. The climate in England is probably less harsh for bare legs and lack of underwear than is the weather in Scotland. Still, I was not comfortable with the notion that the English had persuaded the Scotsmen that they should adopt a mostly female English attire, the skirt, for their own nationally emblamatic use. The English guys kept the more sensible male clothes for themselves, it would seem. What do Scots think about the history of the kilt?

[@stevewatson6839]

@@alexandermayakovsky6550 The kilt IS more or less an English invention; the attire that inspired it is Clan/Highland Scots. Basically a big woolen blanket.

[@JPB-wy5cl]

None of them should have been stripped of their VC. Regardless what they did after the VC was awarded, it doesn't negate the act of heroism that resulted in the VC being awarded in the first place. Expecting all VC recipients to be saints for the rest of their lives is ridiculous.

[@tomhirons7475]

agreed

[@DaveSCameron]

I second this!

[@mrjockt]

It's good that King George V felt the same way, at least he made sure that all 8 men had their names restored to the list of VC holders.

[@jon9021]

I agree!

[@Dickens76]

​@mrjockt That's good to know. I also agree a V.C. shouldn't have been stripped.

[@tylern00]

My great, great uncle served in the Great War, earning the Military Cross for valour. In Canada's Hundred Days offensive, he suffered a gunshot wound to his abdomen. The man who rescued him from No Man's Land, an American doctor serving the Canadian Expeditionary Force Bellenden Hutcheson, received the Victoria Cross for his actions that day. May we all remember Captain Robert Dunlop MC. He remains to this day in France at Terlincthun British Cemetary, Pas de Calais.

[@o.m.a.22]

Their crimes are independent of the valor and sacrifice that earned them their nation’s highest military honor. They were punished twice. Great stories and told with an enthusiasm and zeal that makes me look forward to your next post!

they never earned it

[@cdobeson]

What the actual hell? I’ve never heard of this. As a military veteran and officer I would salute a VC member no matter their rank, as a mark of respect between fighting men. Thank you for bringing this to light. Disgraceful.

[@pierevojzola9737]

Hi, to the best of my knowledge all officers and men saluted holders of the VC, for an Rupert to say that “ he would have” is not appropriate. At the beginning of training there are fundamental regulations to all, there are certain ways of conducting yourself that are the basics of military life. That is the reason why a Commissioned Officer in uniform will salute a lady (ie other ranks wife), or raise his hat when in civilian dress, after all that is what a gentleman would do. Right? Oh there is so much more that us professional soldiers had to learn that was just basics, then there were Regimental traditions. Somewhere there must be a book written by a RSM that explains it all! Cheers mate. Harera

[@colingerry5255]

@@pierevojzola9737 Maybe I misspoke. To be clear, I would always have saluted a VC winner - not that in 10 years service I ever got to meet one, but you are correct - the requirement was there and clearly explained at Sandhurst. And yes, one of the beautiful things about the British Army were the various Regimental traditions. My Regiment remained seated for the loyal toast. No one knew why, but it was a tradition and we did. Thank you for your service!

[@thomasandersen6719]

Who cares?

[@Oakleaf700]

It's absolutely appalling that these Heroic men had their VC taken away.

[@kennydalglish8072]

I never knew there was such thing as forfeiture of VC, amazing stuff mr. Green

[@TheHistoryChap]

Sad that it ever happened, but at least it doesn't now.

[@colinbrown9549]

Me either, the fact that it was even possible was shocking, the fact the Duke of York agreed and as King made sure it would never happen again is heartening

[@rimshot2270]

The American Medal of Honor, our equivalent to the Victoria Cross, can also be forfeited. William "Buffalo Bill" Cody lost his because it was decided he had served the Union cause as a civilian scout, not a military one. It was later restored.

[@PaulJohn01]

@@TheHistoryChap Are their any other medals/awards/honours that have the same stipulation that they can be taken away ?

[@Oakleaf700]

@@TheHistoryChap Thank goodness for that. Probably cowards made the decision to strip the Medals.

[@bhut1571]

Thanks. In case the idea of a "workhouse" goes forgotten, my Nan was terrified at the thought of them. Her to-be husband left Fort William as a youngster here in Canada and joined the British Army in WW1. They married at the end of the War in Cumbria. Then again he joined the Canadian Army at the start of WW2 as an RSM. One of his brothers WW1 medals turned up in a pawn shop in England and the BBC did a story on it.

[@4FYTfa8EjYHNXjChe8xs7xmC5pNEtz]

One of these VCs was apparently sold for £42 at auction in the 1920s approximately. That was an enormous sum for the time.

[@oc2phish07]

Outstanding video, Chris. And I fully agree with you. Bravery and Valour like these men showed remains Bravery and Valour no matter what happens later in life and they deserve to retain the honour.

[@TheHistoryChap]

Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching.

Bravery, gallantry and valour awards

[@ak9989]

As a vet I think some if not all suffered from ptsd. It's unfortunate that they stripped them of their medals

[@TheHistoryChap]

I agree. Was thinking about Edward St. John Daniel. He was just 17 at Sevastopol and by the age of 21 had fought at Lucknow, Cawnpore and seen his mentor die.

[@ak9989]

I saw my uncle suffer after Vietnam and now I have it but thankfully dealt with it better. Now my oldest too has it as well, Afghanistan but he's strong😉 great channel!​@@TheHistoryChap

[@adelwulf8864]

​@ak9989 just think how different WW1 would have been if PTSD had been recognised 50 years earlier.

[@KenFullman]

Maybe if it came with a pension that would, at least, allow a subsistence wage, they wouldn't be driven to crime in the first place.

@@ak9989 ive had 37 years non stop seeing death navy diver veteran, then policing at redlight district, then international justice work...constable to unit chief

[@Clipgatherer]

A military medal doesn’t automatically turn a man into a saint. And neither does it do much for his economic situation once he leaves the army.

[@alexandercormack6818]

Just makes him a very brave bad man, eh ? You don't know what is going on in his head 😮

[@zivkovicable]

In the US, a medal awarded for valour will probably open some career doors for those who have got through their service relatively intact mentaly and physically. . Not so much in the UK.

[@harryshriver6223]

Those were very sad and tragic stories about the men who lost their VC. As a former soldier of the US Military, I can tell you that medals I'm not the reason why soldiers do what they do. We do it because of the men to our left and to our right, we don't want to let down our brothers in arms for any reason. I think you covered a difficult topic well Chris, kudos to you, amigo.😊

[@TheHistoryChap]

harry, thanks for your thoughtful comment.

[@RichardReid-l3c]

Good to hear that the King himself reinstated the awards.

that was started by us australians...we fought only for our mates

[@harryshriver6223]

I think every country has a tradition of soldiers fighting for each other and not for any nonsense espoused by gutless politicians like Trump.

[@donmac7780]

The only possible reason for stripping a soldier of the VC should be if the action for which individual received the VC be discovered not to have been correctly reported.

[@kellybreen5526]

These men would not have “fallen on hard times” if their country tried to repay the debt owed to them. Also, it is pretty likely that their inability to “make a go of it on civvy street “ probably is a result of their service.

[@sunriseboy4837]

Well called!!!

[@bangkokney8708]

I very much doubt there's another KZbin presenter who gives as much enthusiasm as you Chris! I thoroughly enjoy your 'shows' mate, and look forward to many more. All the very best, Tony

[@Duncan-Bizkitts]

Great stories. Reminded me of my own family’s history where my dad’s grandfather rejoined the Army in 1914 after already having served for many years prior to leaving, he was then in his 50’s and must have lied about his age. His son’s all served in the same conflict, at least 2 of them were wounded in combat and discharged as invalids. My Grandfather eventually dying at the at of 36 in 1931

[@aaropajari7058]

Ive always had a lot of respect for King George V, and now it has increased. I will assume that those passing judgement rarely, if ever, did anything to warrant an award such as that won by these men, and did not have to carry the burdens these men carried. Shame on them!

they didnt win the medals

[@aaropajari7058]

A heinous mistake on my part concerning the tenth most important aspect of my short comment.

[@austinwild6723]

What happened with Ravenhill is a bloody disgrace.

[@stephenpegum9776]

Interesting to note at 4:53 that Daniel's tombstone still shows that he was awarded his VC. Ah just heard your explanation at the very end Chris - now it makes sense ! 😎

[@TheHistoryChap]

Yes, they are all on the register. I think tombstone might be more modern too.

[@niyanlan8928]

Victoria Cross recipients ending up in a workhouse is a disgrace on British society not on the soldiers themselves.

[@Tony-c6f2j]

Sad stories and absolutely shameful that they had to give them up for petty crimes. If the country had looked after them they wouldn’t have fallen into destitution in the first place. Good old George V!

still this way today....veterans and police are treated badly with their ptsd

[@TheElDoctoro24]

Please don’t compare veterans with police

[@JohnSmith-ei2pz]

German DNA!!

[@Rose-jz6ix]

​@@TheElDoctoro24you have no idea what some policemen have had to deal with.

[@Paciat]

@@TheElDoctoro24 And what if army did Police work?

[@the5thmusketeer215]

THANK YOU so much for highlighting these appalling & shameful travesties, Chris. I literally wept 😢 throughout this video, that such brave Men were so mistreated, abandoned & unjustly stripped of the honours that their selfless valour had earned… 😯😔 I was so glad to hear that King George had the good sense & decency to overturn that grave injustice, so that it would NEVER AGAIN be repeated…..

[@TheHistoryChap]

Nice comment. Thanks for taking the time to watch as well.

[@Ryuko-T72]

On a similar topic, i know of one who declined a VC. Leo Major. "He declined the invitation to be decorated, however, because according to him, General Montgomery (who was giving the award) was "incompetent'' and "in no position to be giving out medals."

[@rhannay39]

That was not a VC it was a DCM and is probably not true.

[@FrankOBrien-ti7ny]

​@@rhannay39Not true that Montgomery was incompetent? With ten times the resources available to Rommel he still struggled to beat him.

[@MC-nb6jx]

@@FrankOBrien-ti7ny.. Yet did 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@squiglemcsquigle8414]

​@@FrankOBrien-ti7ny ah yes struggled to beat him by completely removing the germans and italians from africa. Man next ur gonna say the brits were better equiped at the start of the war than the germans

[@pepebeezon772]

​@@FrankOBrien-ti7nyPatton (1970) is not a documentary, stop watching it like one

[@retro1937]

I remember the story of Piper Findlater who won his VC at the Dargai Heights in Afghanistan, even though wounded and unable to go forward, he sat up and played his pipes encouraging his fellow soldiers to victory. Findlater almost lost his VC because the Victorian Military establishment were outraged he was augmenting his military pension by playing music in Dance halls. Findlater stopped playing in Dance halls and became a farmer and probably earned less and did not lose his VC or pension. Like many of the heroes you mentioned, Findlater reenlisted I the Army during the First World War.... These were the men who built the Empire, the men who defined to the world what British Courage is. The least that should be done is to add VC after their names.

[@tallesttree4863]

Honestly forgot the british were in afghanistan twice

[@retro1937]

@@tallesttree4863 ,It was a place they never quite could conquer... Actually seems no one could conquer the hardy Afghans, the Russians tried in 1979 and admitted their failure in 1989, Biden recently withdrew the last American forces from Afghanistan and the Taliban took over.

[@bobjackson4720]

Oh England is a pleasant place for them that's rich & high, but England is a cruel place for such poor folks as I. Charles Kingsley.

[@johnbowkett80]

👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@michealhand1001]

And people vote &Fight for the Rich?it beggars belief

[@asumazilla]

​@@michealhand1001Better our rich than any others. 😉

[@kathrynhobbs8874]

Which person could any one vote for that does not support the rich and high. Candidates with any likelihood of success will belong to a political party. As has been shown by the expenses scandal and now the ‘gifts’ scandal, there does not seem much difference, but that as soon as some get voted into a high position, they work on getting rich in kind….p

[@lllordllloyd]

@@asumazilla Or, Russian oligarchs deemed 'honourary English'.

[@waynemullally6423]

Terrific research. Great delivery and outcome. Cheers

[@mozzajayjc]

Michael Murphy’s actually resided in Darlington,County Durham before his death and died at 22 Vulcan street and is buried in the north road cemetery. A ceremony is carried out every Remembrance Sunday by the royal logistics corps which I attended last year

[@bonaggy]

King George was spot on here. Thank you for your wonderful and informative work as always. Have a great day.

[@maxb4074]

Its possible that some of the recipients may have had struggles later due to PTSD from war experiences. So another reason why they should not be stripped of medals.

[@MikkellTheImmortal]

I literally, out loud with excitement said "Yes!" and gave a hearty fist pump when hearing the VCs had been reinstated. I whole heartedly agree with King George's sentiment in regards to the men who have earned the VC.

they didnt earn their medals

[@lorddaver5729]

Of course they did!

[@MikkellTheImmortal]

@@lorddaver5729 I am ignoring that troll. He's just a bitter petulant welp and not worth our time.

[@Gaius_Claudius]

​@@lorddaver5729 His sentiments are misplaced, but he's right in a very technical sense. You can't go out and decide one day you want to earn a VC by fulfilling the criteria in the same way you would, say, a badge in the Boy Scouts. It's technically awarded. You can't "claim" it after fulfilling the criteria, and they can choose not to award it for whatever reason they please. Still, once someone has it I see no problem with "earned" in the past tense.

[@nigelleyland166]

You get the VC for what you did, not for what you do after. To then remove the medal, renders the medal worthless!

[@TheHistoryChap]

I think you are echoing King George V's words.

[@rogerwright1168]

So, by that argument, Sir Jimmy Saville should be allowed to keep his knighthood. Wonderful bit of logic there.

[@shauny2285]

Jim Thorpe (USA) lost his 1912 Olympic medals because he played pro baseball for a time. At the time the Olympics were strickly amateur. His medals, copies really, were eventually returned to his heirs.

[@roberthudson1959]

@@rogerwright1168 No, the orders of chivalry are all awarded with the expectation that the recipient not disgrace the Order. A number of foreign rulers inducted into the Order of the Garter, including Emperors Showa and Wilhelm II, were dismissed from the Order because their nation declared war on the UK. It would seem to make sense to revoke the medals of traitors, but on the whole George V got it right. Incidentally, over 900 Army and Navy Medals of Honor have been rescinded by the US government. Some of them were awarded to civilians, some for noncombat actions, and some for embarrassing the government.

[@roberthudson1959]

@@shauny2285 Thorpe was fully reinstated a couple of years ago. The IOC decided that the appeal of his eligibility was not filed in time.

[@gordonpeden6234]

How upsetting to hear of the injustice and harsh treatment these brave men suffered at the hands of the Country they'd fought and bled for. We seem to be undergoing the same thing here in Australia, with talk of stripping medals from soldiers, The latest is Ben Roberts-Smith ex SAS and VC recipient. Armchair quarterbacks and bedwetters sitting in judgement.

[@kevinc8387]

I always thought the Vc couldn't be stripped. You walk to the gallows , you hang as a VC holder. , all other decorations are removed but once a vc holder etc. Very surprise. Good episode.

[@allythorpe74]

Thankyou . You have just settled a "discussion" between my husband and myself in my favour. Im retired ADF he's still in. Yes Im being a bit cryptic Im sure you understand . A topic easily resolved with a Google but not done. He ( the serving ) said it can be taken away myself (retired) said it couldn't (after watching your multiple VC recipients video). So Thankyou again .Something Earned and Awarded (not won) should never be taken away.

awarded only not earned or won

if youre ex ADF you should know earn and won are not used....its simply awarded

[@davidferry548]

The medal says “ for valour” it doesn’t say for being a jolly good bloke.

[@bobhadland2554]

Those men were hard as nails . A great story, many thanks.

[@davidhoward4715]

Not hard, brave.

[@stephenperry5849]

Very moving video. Thank you.

[@gunhojput]

Shows just how much the british authoritys really care or cared about their injured or retired service people even those highly decorated some things never change. thanks thc great vid.

[@jasonbrown4653]

Learning something new each day you post. However I thought that you could go to the gallows wearing your VC. I thought that it couldn't be taken back. Thank you Chris for clearing that up.

[@ludwigderzanker9767]

Gosh Chris, highly interesting today, many new details I learned. And King George looks like Niki, the last Romanov . House Hannover was among the ancestors anyway. Bravery for the country at war has nothing to do with the behavior after it, I 'm with you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Ludwig

[@ProfessorM-he9rl]

Thank you, fabulous post and very interesting.

[@TheHistoryChap]

Glad you enjoyed my video, thanks for watching.

[@derekmurray1462]

Hi Chris, did you ever hear of Thomas Hughes VC , he was a corporal in the Connaught rangers and fought in WW1 , he was from my own hometown in co Monaghan ROI .

[@annehersey9895]

Thanks again for an interesting yet sad but thought provoking episode!! That’s horrible to have the word ‘accused’ of a felony! So many people are accused but few convicted! I hope they have removed the word accused now. Since no one has been stripped since 1921, Im going to hope that the wording has been updated! Back then they knew nothing of PTSD and was called Shell Shock which followed in the US until the Viet Nam war. And to be diagnosed with shell shock was a horrible stain. So that in addition to struggling with the resultant mental health problems, there was also the embarrassment of having left the military because of shell shock. I’m glad we live in an age where we treat our military as the heroes they are for volunteering to keep our countries safe!

[@TimSavage-drummer]

+4:50 That looks to be in the remembrance area of the Seaview Cemetery. Hokitika was one of the largest towns in NZ at the time, during the height of the gold rush. I used to walk past this area often when I lived there walking our dog, my parents still live nearby.

[@gilliantill1214]

Well told by the energetic telling of this saga.Thank you x

[@TheHistoryChap]

Thank you for your kind comment.

[@philiprayner]

and a number of those men had signs of PTSD

[@SilverDreamer62]

Very clear window into a social system damned by class. The VC winners come back to Britain with little prospects and possibly no legal representation. Some had families to support. I wonder how many knew what was expected of the for the remainder of thier lives. Great video.

[@TheHistoryChap]

Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching.

[@QALibrary]

Talking about medals: Today I had to email a department linked to GCHQ ~ it was in connection to someone who worked at Bletchley Park in WW2. Her medal had been lost on the day of her funeral a few years ago. My dad mentioned it and I contacted them to ask how does one obtain a replacement.

[@TheHistoryChap]

I like that story, thanks for sharing.

[@QALibrary]

@@TheHistoryChap update to the story - they sending out a replacement medal free of charge by Royal Mail - My dad should get it from Friday

[@alexandermayakovsky6550]

Thanks very much. I enjoy your presentations. You make the past come alive!

[@TheHistoryChap]

Very kind of you, thanks.

[@AntiWokeXyCitizen]

It's incredible that even veterans today are treated badly and pretty much ignored whilst going through difficult times through not of their fault. I myself nearly lost everything including my house through depression and alcoholism, thank god over those 14 years of terrible times I managed to pull my socks up and get back to living my life again, I would have been homeless on the streets and probably dead. Served between 1986-2010...

[@beh1972]

Fantastic piece of work, and timely too. in recent years here in Australia there has been discussion about stripping an Australian VC winner of his cross earned in Afghanistan due to some allegations of what happened over there at the time Everyone is waiting to see how it turns out.

[@allythorpe74]

It's simple they cant, unless and even then I'm not sure unless the VC was the same operation under investigation. I'm retired ADF. I know what you are referring to .

no one is a winner of a medal....you are awarded it for certain acts performed unless campaign medals and other reasons, then its issued as you were in country for the requisite days.....Ben roberts smith is the recipient. He is in and out of court at present for defamation

[@merlin8514]

No veterans should ever fall on hard times.

[@smallfeet4581]

I think ex military should be given employment before anyone else , the idea any could have ended up in a workhouse is shocking

[@kenfowler1980]

It happens a lot even today!

[@StoccTube]

My father served 28 years, he’d disagree with you. The military is a career, some serve with distinction, others have short unremarkable careers, all are veterans. I think being more specific would be helpful. No wounded service member should ever be left without treatment (ongoing where required), any veteran unable to work due to service (injury, mental injury etc), should be properly housed and pensioned. But a young person who serves for a 3 years, doesn’t deploy (perhaps a pay clerk or mechanic) etc… do they deserve employment ahead of everyone else?

[@kenfowler1980]

@@StoccTube wow! pay clerks & mechanics do deploy! its not like the old days. everyone can be deployed at anytime - cheers

[@grahamhollingworth8253]

Fantastic video with such tragic stories, respect to all these men.

[@TheHistoryChap]

Thanks for watching my video.

[@Kurenai1819]

Great story which was unknown to me (and probably many others). It also had a happy ending for those awarded the VC despite the hardships they endured after leaving the service.

[@triskelworkshop2855]

Thanks for posting, good one

[@mr16ga]

As a vet the act of courage stands on it's own. I don't think the men should not have had their VC"s stripped.

[@davidwoods7720]

Thanks so much as always Chris

[@DaveSCameron]

What a true gentleman.

[@graemer3657]

I think a video n the fates of the Rorkes Drift VC winners would be interesting and shocking to your viewers

[@arslongavitabrevis5136]

A very moving story told with the usual flair and passion. The way your country treated its fighting men was shameful. I remember, among other cases, the famous promise by Lloyd George of creating "a country fit for heroes" in 1918. Rudyard Kipling expressed all this better than anyone else in his poem "TOMMY".

[@jonathontroy1447]

There is talk here in Australia that there may be a contemporary VC winner who may wind up forfeiting their VC if they are prosecuted for war crimes but we will have to wait and see.

[@maxasaurus3008]

These are hard men, I don’t think they should be able to take it back. Great video.

[@pippohispano]

I was about to ask why all these men who had to forfeit their VC where 19th century - early 20th century men, and then you gave the answer. Good and decent decision by George V!

[@crolla1234]

Amazing video on VC history. Thank you.

[@michaelodonoghue9385]

Those responsible for stripping these brave men of the VC are just armchair hero’s who would run a mike from the events in which these brave hero’s demonstrated their courage.

[@drtimsmith]

Another story, superbly told. I agree with you, a medal earned for extreme valour on the battlefield should not be stripped from the awardee. Instead, we should look after our heroes and look at what has gone wrong, that such a situation has occurred.

[@TheHistoryChap]

Totally agree with you. I imagine that there was a lot of PTSD going on here too.

[@OlagGan]

Salonica?? Bloody He'll!! That's one of the places my Grandfather served.

[@lindsayclubb]

What a rousing end! You are a marvellous storyteller.

[@seananthonyegan3395]

Unbelievable who petty the government can be ....

[@quotemenot7520]

Fascinating and interesting history of a medal and it's recipients, and aspect of history I knew nothing about. thank you for a wonderful video telling the story of the 8 men, their medals and sad story. We owe these men everything and they got little back in exchange. To the incredible 8, I salute you.

[@stuartrice8143]

One word, brilliant 👏 👌

[@TheHistoryChap]

Very kind of you, thanks.

[@DaveSCameron]

Indeed!

[@simplyphil.photography164]

Hi Chris, hearing the name of Sir Robert Peel, l can reveal that he was an Officer in the Staffordshire Yeomanry, there were several other Officers who had a high place in Society all from the same Regiment . Great to catch another video, and what happened to those who suffered losing their medals, its a fact that veterans find it difficult to come to terms in Civvy Street and are treated with no respect, they have given but not been given reward for service. Philip

[@TheHistoryChap]

Hi Philip, thanks for watching and for taking the time to comment.

[@hamishdunbar5836]

Thats bull If you get awarded a VC for valor it should never be taken back because of things later in life

[@iainhunneybell]

A very sad, but as always, wonderfully told story. Thank you Chris ❤

[@TheHistoryChap]

My pleasure. Thanks for watching.

[@T.S.Birkby]

Well done King George V

[@TheHistoryChap]

Indeed. Thanks for watching.

[@maxreed2343]

WOW, Chris old bean, quite the emotional story this one sure was tonight, huh? On one hand, YES, on the fact that this was one of those on your latest recent poll table on what you said you'd be covering for video topics, but on the other, my god, the stories you've now shared in full detail about the eight British military men who were forced under different reasons to relinquish their hard earned and extremely well meant to be kept VCs, in particular the ones about George Ravenhill and Frederick Corbett (those two's stories were particularly quite sad to hear, especially with how they struggled financially in civilian life after successful careers serving Her Majesty Queen Victoria's forces wherever, the former sadly ending up and dying in the workhouse you mentioned, and the latter also suffering the same sorta fate and having to do the extremely hard decision to send three of his own children off to adoption in North America) were quite the emotional and heart wrenching topic to hear for sure. THANK GOD, after Ravenhill's passing, George V stepped in and put a stop to this tragic business, and since then, and EXTREMELY rightfully too in complete accordance agreement with you and George's powerful words indeed, NO ONE has ever had to forfeit their VCs, which is DAMN RIGHT the correct thing, even though the falling of hard times thing has still happened with some who have earned it, which sadly can be very true for former soldiers. And once again, thank ya's for delivering such a powerful and emotion giving topic this day, our British military history giving KZbinr superstar, Chris dear chap

no one earns a medal

[@IrishTechnicalThinker]

I have a book on heroes of wars and medals, it states that the Victoria's cross should not be stripped and even if they are facing the gallows to be hanged. Apparently that's a lie then.

[@TheHistoryChap]

Not a lie, it can still be forfeited but hasn’t been since King George V disapproved in 1920.

[@blrbrazil1718]

You clearly didn't watch the video till the end - or you'd understand what happened and why and wouldn't be accusing people of lying.

[@lyntonryan4766]

This is fascinating , especially George Ravenhall, because I lived across the road from Witton cemetery where he was buried . I might go and have a look at Grave 36 , none of these men should've had their VC removed !

[@TheHistoryChap]

A little known piece of Brummie history.

[@MagiTailWelkin]

The fact a VC winner is still capable of committing crimes, whether out of desperation, or failings in character, just proves the spectrum of human behaviour. Yes, we should aspire to be like VC winner, because that show the best of humanity, but winning a VC does not transform you into a perfect human being.

[@alexandercormack6818]

Neither does PTSD . You don't know what goes through these mens heads

no one wins a medal

[@BobLouden-r9q]

My grandfather was awarded the MM in Belgium pinned on him by the Prince of Wales. When he came back to Australia, he worked in the forest cutting railway sleepers, To come down from experiencing fierce battle. Then joined the police, mainly because he saw what some Australians did during the war and knew society needed protection from that type of man.War brings both the best and worst out in a man.

@@BobLouden-r9q im a veteran who has done the same aussie....the MM no longer exists now...its just MC...a friend of mine in uk has one...I have a BM from both services and am awaiting consideration for star of courage

medals are awarded.

[@andrewsteele7663]

Great story and brilliant telling. But truly sad with the outcomes the holders went through. Cheers

[@competitionglen]

Cpl Ben Roberts-Smith VC may be asked to return his VC if found guilty of ALLEGED war crimes in Afghanistan. Ungrateful cowards, a truly disgraceful situation in Australia. 😢

[@10_rds_Fire_For_Effect]

@competitionglen Cpl Ben Roberts-Smith VC can never be stripped of his VC. King George VI ruled that should a VC be convicted of murder, he may wear his VC on the Scaffold. King George reinstated all the VC's that were forfeited earlier. The VC can never be forfeited, no matter the crime.

[@etinarcadiaego2259]

Corporal Roberts-Smith VC is a despicably wicked & shameless war criminal. His appalling war crimes were proven in court & thereby ceased to be mere "allegations". On 1 June 2023, Federal Court of Australia Justice Anthony Besanko found that four murder allegations against Roberts-Smith had been justly proven. Accordingly any "disgrace" in the matter belongs with Roberts-Smith, not the Citizens & Commonwealth of Australia.

[@leonrussell9607]

It's disgusting he's even on trial

[@etinarcadiaego2259]

@@leonrussell9607 Corporal Roberts-Smith VC is a wicked & shameless war criminal. His appalling war crimes were confirmed in court on 1 June 2023, when Federal Court of Australia Justice Anthony Besanko found that four murder allegations against Roberts-Smith had been justly proven. Criminal proceedings are still pending however, which should rightly result in a long life sentence in prison for his sadistic evil crimes & the disgrace he has brought to the good, honest, & law-abiding Citizens & Commonwealth of Australia.

[@10_rds_Fire_For_Effect]

@@leonrussell9607 He still cannot be stripped of his VC. Reason is the heroic deed which earned him the VC cannot be undone. No matter what he has done since. No matter how disgusted you may be for whatever he has done since. The VC is acknowledgement of his heroism in THAT moment and on that particular day. Regardless of how rotten his character may be. You cannot undo the heroic deed. It's like trying to unring a bell after it's been rung. You don't have to have good character to win or keep the VC. You cannot remove a VC as revenge for something he has done since. For that reason, even if he is convicted, he can wear his VC in prison. Even if they hanged him, he can wear his VC on the scaffold, just as King George V said.

[@wallyreeve3690]

A great story and very sad. An act of extreme bravery cannot be undone

[@rhannay39]

The only reason a medal awarded for bravery should be forfeited is treason.

[@kayallovertheplace]

Treason is a vague term

[@rhannay39]

@@kayallovertheplace Convicted of treason. Does that make it easier for you to understand?

[@philipopperman7570]

Great video as always Chris. Thank you

[@BaronFlyingClub]

I was told by Jeremy Clarkson that the VC could never be revoked and a man could go to the Gallows wearing it. Clearly is it indeed can be revoked for petty offences like stealing horse fodder for Army horses then it discredits the medal itself and makes it worthless to have hold or to collect.

[@vulture3874]

I have seen that documentary too; fascinating and he does them really well, li,d he actually cares. I believed that was the state of things. Perhaps he meant as of now, as in the later decree by the King.

[@RichardTurner-s5x]

Absolutely brilliant. Thank you.

[@TheHistoryChap]

You're very welcome!

[@Candywarhol]

Just being a military veteran does not instantly elevate you above the rest of the population of mere mortals, BUT combat is an experience that can dramatically change one's persona.

[@TheHistoryChap]

If you look at some of their military experiences, I think you might very well be right.

[@billyrees90]

Great video. Very interesting history!

[@auldflyer]

Another excellent presentation from The History Chap.

[@martinhambleton5076]

Merit for bravery should never be taken away for service given.

[@peterbamforth6453]

An excellent documentory.I was astonished to hear that after stripping him of his VC the war office sold it for £42...

[@TheHistoryChap]

Thanks for your comment & for watching my video

[@lllordllloyd]

An Australian SAS man was awarded the VC and has also been credibly accused of.... indeed, virtually admitted in a defamation case he brought himself.... to war crimes. And not 'heat of the moment' things that could be said to be crimes by comfortable lawyers years later: cold blooded murder of unarmed civilians, on multiple occasions, reputedly to the disgust of his fellow soldiers. The Australian Government is supposed to be pursing this beyond the initial inquiries but the case has been frozen because it's all very inconvenient. Media beat-ups of other incidents- much less egregious- involving other soldiers have confused the situation.

[@TheHistoryChap]

Thanks you taking the time to share.

[@markaluge]

Well done Chris, an excellent topic to cover.

[@ComboMuster]

They should've been awarded a house or a small dwelling instead of that worthless tin medal. I think if they had the choice they would've taken the house...

[@Mavis-u3k]

A lump of metal cost nothing. Fine words are cheap enough. To actually provide these men with anything practical was of course out of the question. The pension mentioned? An insultingly small sum, certainly not enough to keep them out of the workhouse.

[@ComboMuster]

@@Mavis-u3k Exactly it is a scam praying on honest responsible citizens. Such a shame.

[@davidgilroy1214]

Great presentation! Thank you.

[@DaveSCameron]

5:40 unsurprisingly there’s an Irishman in here smh ☘️

[@Rumpelstyltskin]

Indeed. The Irish and the British empire never mixed.

[@multipipi1234]

Your point..?

[@AndriyValdensius-wi8gw]

They found out he was IRISH after they'd given him a VC. That'll never do. So they took it away. Because he once "parked on a double yellow line, while being Irish in broad daylight. Thus bringing the VC into disrepute."

[@Martin-tn5lm]

​​@@RumpelstyltskinYes the Irish did mix, they made up Regiments of the British Empire. The Connacht Rangers mutinied in India against the British Empire in response to the atrocities of the Black&Tan hoards in Ireland.

[@blrbrazil1718]

You prefer to ignore the large numbers of Irish who helped - with great distinction- to build and maintain the British empire. Back then British meant the British Isles, not just GB.

[@robertfrith771]

Kudos Chris for dealing with a touchy subject very well. I would also ask: WHY are soldiers who served their country loyally still experiencing this sort of discrimination? In particular those who served in Northern Ireland and Afghanistan? In case you are not aware, there has been a concerted effort in the last few years by people who should know better to pin IRA fighters death on ex-soldiers and to try them for murder...in the interests of appeasement. Similar things have occured post-Afghanistan (Soldier A). This while those on the opposite side (IRA fighters and Taliban supporters families) are not being pursued, and indeed stand to gain financially?

[@TheHistoryChap]

Thanks for your interesting feedback & for watching my video

[@blrbrazil1718]

Woke revisionism!

[@briankirkwood4454]

It was an excuse to revoke the pensions. Anything for money, and to show people whose boss.

[@davidhoward4715]

No. Listen to what's said in the video.

[@martinhogg5337]

Great stories on an important topic!