The medicine myth | Denis Noble, Nessa Carey, Guy Brown

[@TheInstituteOfArtAndIdeas]

Watch the full debate here! iai.tv/video/the-medicine-myth?KZbin&+comment&

[@CrazyGaming-ig6qq]

Warning: it's behind a free trial / paywall.

[@Parasmunt]

I find the tone of the last two speakers somewhat disturbing, especially in iight of the controversy about Midazoman and morphine being used to kill people during the Covid crisis. If i was an old person their discussion would make me very.... uncomfortable.

[@Parasmunt]

I imagine the first guy is feeling increasingly nervous listening to the other two both of whom think people should not be kept alive too long. I do think Euthanasia is a dangerous field, especially when scientists weave in socio-economic factors and biases about 'Western privelege' and describe the elderly as parasitic. This talk unfortunately had both.

[@StigFerrari]

Third leading cause of death in Canada is now euthenasia, displacing medical mistakes

[@CallMeGailyn]

@StigFerrari Sources please?

[@XDamnItzMichaelX]

The way they are trying to normalize degenerative disease and euthenasia is crazy. how about we do something about the degenerative disease?

[@throckmortensnivel2850]

One of the reasons people live longer nowadays is teeth. In the old days, elderly people lost their teeth, could no longer chew food, suffered horrible gum disease, and subsequent infections. So dentistry has extended life by a fair bit. Also made it a lot more bearable.

[@AKAKiddo]

You are so right.

[@throckmortensnivel2850]

@@AKAKiddo I should add this. That is, vaccination against childhood diseases has saved hundreds of millions of lives, and while it doesn't necessarily extend life, it sure increases that average lifespan.

[@SunPresager]

@@throckmortensnivel2850 your thesis is make sense, about teeth 🪥, and the other about how vaccines for childhood diseases also penetrated the core cuz we just make good chances for more infants to cross or hit the puberty compare to 50 , 60, or 100 years ago. But, I think 🤔 Denise spoke in other parameters. He just said that we should think about some diseases like cardiovascular or hypertension or diabetic in whole picture not from genes wise only, but as whole organs. And the two other guests were speaking 🗣️ in other dimensions..but at the end you all right 👍

[@futures2247]

childhood diseases have gone down for a variety of reasons - public health, sanitations, waste disposal, access to food etc

[@laaaliiiluuu]

Exactly. Medicine has not much to do with it but overall healthier life circumstances. But Big Pharma has a great marketing team ...

[@ObjectiveAnalysis]

Correct. Plumbing and the end of horses as primary transport were huge factors in this too.

[@AKAKiddo]

Very good.

[@mickwilson99]

@@futures2247 No. Antibiotics savedmy mother's life in the 1940s from the complications of stillbirths brought on by her being Rh-. They save my life in the 60s when stricken with rheumatic fever. Antibiotics have closed special wards in every hospital for sufferers (mostly children) of Scarlet Fever. People used to die of an infected gum socket, or a minor work-related cut leading to septicemia, as for women in childbirth. You are blind and daft to ignore the demonstrated effectiveness of antibiotics. If you'd like to prove me wrong then, please, take your child to live in the forest for a couple of years without medical treatment. Please send me a postcard so I know how it's all going.

[@ximono]

My thoughts too. Vaccines can take some of the credit, but not all. I would think sanitation is the biggest factor.

[@Soundcloud765]

From May 2011 until July 2014 Nessa Carey was Senior Director in External Research and Development Innovation at Pfizer! Now it's fully understandable where her rethorics comes from. The only and truly A Scientist here is Denis Noble. Others are just tools of the corporate machine with degrees.

[@terencefield3204]

Indeed. I also suspect the specific rules of intervention and life length maximisation she would apply to herself would be very different to those she invokes in her dismal middle-ages attitude. And she knows little of economics, and her social polemics are silly.

[@kessu83]

makes sense

[@vesnagodess]

Totally agree.

[@atwarwithdust]

Certainly there are conditions of pain I would not want to live in until I were 95 years old, but if I could hold only one memory of an experience of music for 1,000 years, without excruciating pain, I would want to do so. And to use the class divide as an argument against that prolongation of human life is kind of obscene. We need to address the fact that 800 million people are living on the edge of starvation *in any event*, and don't you think the underclass would like to live longer too? The universe is billions of years old; the longer we can live, I'd say, the more beautiful.

[@cb1540]

For the person who commented on anti vaccines, im not a anti vaxxer i had a Pfizer comirnaty vaccine 1st dose and it left me permanently incapacitated, and gace me a autoimmune deasese . The side effects were instant my legs became heavy and never recovered,it gave mr chromic pericarditis, and encephalopathy, ans bursitis and other joint problems, it gave me posterial vertigo and sometimes lost control of my vision and gace me cognitive issues such as unable to speak properly im in so much cheast pain constantly, im not a anti vaxxer , some other colleagues also had similar experiences we are victims of censorship and biological harm caused by our government

[@larryhathaway549]

Please cease referring to a bioweapon as a "vaccine." In other circumstances, for instance if a podunk pharmaceutical company without humongous political, financial & good-old-boy connections had come up with the concoction ... it would have been analylyzed and sent to the trash heap of candidates. I agree with Reiner Feullmich(PLEASE Look him up to see his impressive record both Prior to, and Throughout the COVID fiasco.) Reiner Fuellmich's observation: " The vaccine was not developed in response to the viral infection, it was the other way around." I earnestly wish his vast team success in trying to get to the most culpable persons in his latest quest for justice.

[@Fahmbo]

I had myocarditis from my first and only dose. I too was fooled. Grateful we survived. These "scientists" will never admit they were used to stoke fear and profits. May you recover in time.

[@flomandru]

The title & the thumbnail doesn’t match the discussion, which is mostly about lifespan and healthspan and chronic diseases (only) of the old people. The speakers (excepting Noble) mostly present the mythology of medicine, including the whiggish position about progress. They touch some sociocultural, economic and philosophical aspects of the big picture, but they are specialists in the small picture (lab). Ask some philosophers, social scientists, historians and others. You have a video with philosopher of medicine Jacob Stegenga (Is Our Trust In Medicine Mistaken? on yt / Medicine's Mistakes on iai).

[@StigFerrari]

Lifespan increased due to hygiene, clean water and nutrition, rather than ‘vaxines’ or BigPharma, I believe

[@cioran1754]

Not according to pzifer lady

[@sharpie6888]

Vaccine had a huge impact

[@cioran1754]

@sharpie6888 mortality / morbidity from the majority of infectious diseases had declined rapidly from the late 19th into the middle of the 20th, and they were having a minor / decreasing impact on population health, due to milder forms for one ( see smallpox) , before the various vaccines got introduced, you can look this data up fairly easily if you like, the data does not support a 'huge' impact on health. So a minscule impact at best, and no proper RCTs to show real world efficacy, or comparisons to saline placebo for safety, or monitoring for potential AEs. This is hersey to declare this of course.

[@LeoPlaw]

This segment was cherry picked for the political agenda pushed by the second speaker.

[@Parasmunt]

The first speaker was like the antithesis of the second speaker, he devoted his career to developing cardiac technology to help people live longer.

[@incoxide]

Nessa Carey is entirely clueless. Amazingly so.

[@MyMy-tv7fd]

dangerously clueless

[@omodiagbedominicedeoghon4607]

Either clueless or deceitful and evil.

[@cioran1754]

Or all three

[@karsten9895]

But she's got a t-shirt that says she's on 'team science'. Think about that!

[@ankyspon1701]

And a Big pharma shill! She's clueless and also dangerous, imagine her being able to one day dictate policy on how long (the majority) of the population should be allowed to live for!

[@notyourbus]

I like Noble he is genius! 👌

[@Fahmbo]

He is

[@thetruthexperiment]

When did scientists stop thinking? There have always been 80 and 90 year old people. She’s right about fewer child deaths but that’s more because of better child birthing practices. We live beyond our reproductive capacity because the human species is a super organism which must have wise individuals with experience who can properly hand the wold over to the inexperienced. The idea that we’re only supposed live until our uterus falls out is just dumb. Is she saying that woman should die at 40 and men can go on living till 90? Not a very deep think person.

[@StigFerrari]

Even the NIH attributed longer health spans to clean water, sanitation, and nutrition, rather than the 70+ jabs they mandate for school kids in the USA.

[@1984Kojot]

@@StigFerrari 100% truth after IIWW economy was basically dead in my country many children died because lack of proper heating in the house. Night could be very, very cold to the point that windows were frozen from the inside also grandmother had 7 children so overall care was very poor quality. Noone cared that much for children back in the days.

[@Pitolek1993]

Yah sure, its not like we keep seeing diseases deemed practically erased pop up im first world countries cos some dum dums decided that one guy faking his research is enough not to vaccinate his kids.

[@readynowforever3676]

@@StigFerrari”70 plus jabs”. People like you are so ungrateful for what our species has been and to do at the biochemical level, that you result hyperbolic sophistry.

[@readynowforever3676]

@@1984KojotIs that the best scientific data you can offer ?

[@eugeniaberdali9711]

Statins almost killed me. madam Geek

[@mycount64]

its not increasing life expectancy as a maximum. It is an average. Longevity has not increased. The average has changed. So, you chances of living to be 80 have increased your chances of living to 120 years has not.

[@eastbrecht]

Praising the wonders of the jabs. How am I not surprised?

[@tuulaniemi1826]

Could they be payed?

[@bernardmccole3215]

Huh? "The response to Covid is a scientific miracle" Where's this lady been the last few years.

[@cioran1754]

Shilling for pharma clearly

[@whitb62]

From a microbiology standpoint it was one of the greatest achievements in human history. It saved millions of lives. We developed and administered an effective vaccine within several months and developed a technology (mRNA vaccination) that could be our literal savior if something with a much higher mortality rate comes along.

[@tuulaniemi1826]

Robert Malone, the man who holds the patents on the mRNA technique, strongly warns against the way it is used in "vaccines", especially young children who have not yet developed an immune system are at risk.

[@Samsara_is_dukkha]

@@whitb62 How do you know it saved millions of lives? The people who caught Covid might have survived without any vaccine. Meanwhile, we do not have a clear picture of what this new technology (not a vaccine) does medium and long-term. The mRNA vaccines were poorly tested and pushed on populations by corrupt politicians such as Ursula Von der Leyen who factually had a financial stake in misusing her power to force people to accept an insufficiently tested experimental technology on millions of Europeans while disparaging traditional vaccines such as Sinovac. I personally know two perfectly healthy men who died of blood clotting related problems within hours of being vaccinated and there were many others, including athletes on top of their physical forms.

[@bogdanpopescu1401]

a miracle of stupidity

[@isatousarr7044]

Yes, it might be time to rethink the purpose of medicine. Traditionally, medicine has focused on treating diseases, alleviating symptoms, and prolonging life, but as our understanding of health deepens, we realize that this approach can be narrow. Instead of just reacting to illness, medicine should shift toward a more holistic, preventive, and patient-centered model that promotes overall well-being, mental health, and quality of life. Modern medicine must address the root causes of health issues, such as lifestyle, environmental factors, and social determinants of health, rather than merely treating symptoms. Additionally, integrating advances in technology, personalized medicine, and considering the ethical implications of treatments are crucial in evolving the field. Ultimately, medicine's purpose should be to empower individuals to achieve a state of balance, resilience, and optimal health, not just the absence of disease. By rethinking its purpose, medicine can adapt to meet the diverse and complex needs of humanity in the 21st century.

[@micdeymearstienbeiger37]

Denis Noble is the only one who actually made scientific statements. He actually is a top scientist. The other two sounded more like prophets of morality and made statements that are more philosophical and less scientific. More like opinions of what should and and should not be the case in an atheistic or naturalistic worldview.

[@ximono]

Ideological, not philosophical.

[@andrewreddy7063]

Denis is the only panellist who makes sense

[@chickenlover657]

Literally. I got second hand embarrassment from listening to these other loons...outrageous.

[@SuperRobinjames]

I think the lady needs to check her facts regarding the 'miracle of the covid vaccine'.

[@maddiesilina3833]

Are you a doctor? Check your facts!

[@SuperRobinjames]

@@maddiesilina3833 only doctor's can talk with authority? Lol

[@maddiesilina3833]

@@SuperRobinjames about health yes! If you are not a doctor you just have a opinion about vaccines, but no understanding. That’s the difference between people who are doctors and people who are not.

[@SuperRobinjames]

@@maddiesilina3833 I think you will find that people.without a medical degree are perfectly capable of study,, your appeal to authority carries no weight.

[@maddiesilina3833]

@@SuperRobinjames I agree that people are able to study. But there is a difference between a student, a doctor and a person with an opinion about medicine.

[@petervandenengel1208]

The fact when a more develloped culture could reach a longer lifespan, it would be inappropiate regarding low income countries makes no sence at all. This is politicizing abstract science. A weird way of thinking.

[@Firebox294]

whenever you hear someone say the word science 2-3 times in one sentence be cautious about that person and what they are trying to sell

[@cueva_mc]

If it was science what someone is talking about, then you would use arguments and not the word science to justify what you are saying. Science does not correspond to an authority

[@benxamin13]

If we're not dying from heart attacks so much, another possibility would be to die peacefully of old age like it happened before, instead of cancer and suffering. Her argument is not very convincing. The incredibly high amounts of cancer these days are not normal.

[@johnstibal2131]

Denis Noble definitely carried ALL of the intellectual weight on this panel. Not a lot of innovative or creative thinking from the others. Actually, I was a little sickened by the "eater of chicken heads" T shirt lady.

[@prangwalbimberjumat1934]

Denis Noble 10/10, Nessa Carey2/10, Guy Brown 5/10

[@louisehaley5105]

We shouldn’t treat our parents worse than our pets ! Why do we continue to force our loved ones to endure the hell of dementia, painful and debilitating illnesses etc that we wouldn’t expect any nonhuman animal to endure. Are human beings worth less ? The right to die is a fundamental human right.

[@marjon888]

That woman is very uninformed

[@ferrantepallas]

Statins and vaccinations? Are you kidding?

[@John-Galt-Misfit]

She is just parroting what she heard. She never really examined the counterpoint to either of those.

[@ObjectiveAnalysis]

She’s just another product of the establishment “education system” and media

[@ankyspon1701]

She's a shill and funded by the vaccine companies

[@BehroozCompani-fk2sx]

I think Mr. Noble is a very good scientist. Love his inputs. The GEEk lady doesn't make much sense.

[@AndreiHaiduc]

Is it the woman talking or an AI with pre-programmed answers based on today's trends?

[@tuulaniemi1826]

I go with AI

[@MS-od7je]

We live about as long as we always have been able. Life expectancy increased primarily by children not dying before 5 years of age. As we age we go through cycles of cellular communication. I figure 7 such cycles which get longer as we age. These are reflected in the ratio of anabolism to catabolism. The top level of life expectancy is probably around 120 years. If nothing else takes you out it will be your lungs.

[@warrenhennon9607]

All diseases start in the gut. Dysbiosis creates metabolic disorders, metabolic disorders create autoimmune diseases. Medicine is focused on the wrong subject matter and is compartmentalize. They will always miss thr big picture. The whole body.

[@gmw3083]

Paraphrasing the Geek woman, 'If you believe in the science you're gonnadye'. The key to immortality is ever closer....

[@XDamnItzMichaelX]

Our quality of life has completely been going down hill, what is Nessa talking about? what planet does she live on

[@kessu83]

Geek gave the ideokogical talk...not very scientific..

[@kennethmarshall306]

A bit of a non PC start from Prof. Noble

[@mr.q8426]

Life is given. Not for us to take. Assisted dying is diabolical and should be treated as such by repulsive rejection.

[@lenny7053]

Why force humans to suffer needlessly when we don’t do it to our pets. Do we love humans less ?

[@mr.q8426]

@@lenny7053 "force humans to suffer needlessly" is an objectively wrong moral stance. You know it. I know it. I am not advocating it! I am advocating appreciation of time and humbleness of ourselves. And at all cost we should avoid causing a potential situation where death is an option to consider. Death is in fact the very lack of options.

[@алексд-к7г]

listening to the second speaker dropped my iq by at least 160 points.

[@mycount64]

live forever is impossible. Statistically you will eventually be in a fatal accident that you cannot recover from. Question, is a risk based question.

[@louisehaley5105]

Why strive to extend our lifespans when we don’t value our elderly. We cannot live on indefinitely whilst we continue to breed indefinitely - we have to allow room for the next generation. The price of immortality is sterility. The planet can’t sustain our numbers as it is !

[@brandonmacey964]

So you are arguing for NOT extending people’s lifespans? That’s your position?

[@mintoo2cool]

the guy who said that age is a cultural phenomenon and not a thing in the wild and among wild animals.. i have a question.. has he ever owned a pet animal ? i m intrigued to look into his idea at a deeper level but the full video is behind a paywall which a shame

[@quinktap]

Too arrogant for me speaker 2 and 3. Somewhat clueless and stuck in scary paradigms.

[@thomasbradley2916]

All problems are soluble - including death

[@h.hickenanaduk8622]

Angels on the sideline Puzzled and amused Why did Father give these humans free will? Now they're all confused - Right in Two, Tool.

[@stevenverrall4527]

Nessa Carey is dangerously wrong about just about everything!

[@gwilymyddraig]

Medecine suffers from a horrible case of capitalism

[@gwilymyddraig]

@@bogdanpopescu1401 hahaha Yes I live in Québec, Canada. LoL

[@gwilymyddraig]

@@bogdanpopescu1401 many broken bones, heart problems, etc. Never paid a cent

[@bogdanpopescu1401]

@@gwilymyddraig how many of the drugs you were given were produced by the great socialists healthcare system of Canada?

[@gwilymyddraig]

@@bogdanpopescu1401 oh, what a surprise, another NO CONTENT, knowitall, insulting troll coming out of nowhere. I know how the healthcare system works in my country, but you go ahead and mansplain it to me. Lol

[@gwilymyddraig]

@@bogdanpopescu1401 suggesting that lol at the end of a sentence is a bad sign...is a bad sign

[@tuulaniemi1826]

Turtles live much longer than humans... but of course they haven't been forcibly vaccinated either!

[@GreaterGood2024]

He missed shaving some of his moustache 😆

[@birdman4274]

I think it's a new trend 🤣

[@diamondinthestonebyriverbl2148]

Lost me at positive Statins!

[@lsobrien]

These speakers are brilliant. Shame most of the talk is behind a paywall.

[@notu1529]

capitalism baby

[@Watercloud-11]

​@@notu1529 Yes, everything should be free. These people obviously dont need money. Why should YOU have have to pay for this? These people should obviously respect your money and use their free time to give YOU information so that YOU dont have to spend any money at all.

[@Watercloud-11]

Yes, everything should be free. These people obviously dont need money. Why should YOU have have to pay for this? These people should obviously respect your money and use their free time to give YOU information so that YOU dont have to spend any money at all.

[@notu1529]

knowledge for collective intelligence should be free. same goes to healthcare and other fundamental needs for wellbeing. your simple mind only sees this in a simple light. you should already know what I'm talking about without me having to spoon-feed you. if your mind is simple, your will judgment is also simple.

[@Watercloud-11]

@@notu1529 Well, where i grew up healthcare and public education is free, and it is notoriously shitty, simply because nothing of good quality is free in reality. If this platform on youtube was free, no wise person would accept the invitation, people live lives you know? do you even know how money works? Money is time and energy, it cannot be free, it takes hard work.

[@rozaucja8612]

Choose a plant-based whole foods diet :)

[@brandonmacey964]

Choose a keto diet

[@michaelboguski4743]

Sedentary Living is chosen by Consumerism.... Sadly it is also what diminishes the natural environment.... So Humans are more and more removed from their origins.... We are like the Machines we build.

[@LettersAndNumbers300]

This IaI thing is really good at missing the mark huh…

[@55north17]

Watching this reduces life span in that it discourages the will to live.

[@maxgluteus4263]

Sad to see the woman speaker is so misguided

[@Parasmunt]

So she is worried about people in the First world living too long, she thinks that is not 'fair'.

[@maddiesilina3833]

?

[@Parasmunt]

@@maddiesilina3833 'Health inequality means the most damaging people would be alive longer and longer to do more damage and create greater problems for the have nots' If she had been talking previously about the possibility of Rupert Murdoch living to 200 i might see her point but she was talking about Western elderly in general 'and we are already the ones driving destruction of the planet'.

[@CrazyGaming-ig6qq]

She pretty much draw a proportionate line between the lifespan of white people and the suffering of everyone else. The unspoken conclusion that she didnt outright utter is: better for the world if all the whiteys perished.

[@JojoOchoa]

Ðiseases Comes Out With The Wrong Acts And Impurities Of The HearT!!!???///

[@progyandas9650]

'There is aging in animals' ....when in discovery channels one can actually see lions age .

[@spacefertilizer]

Lots of anti-vaxxers in the comments. Vaccines has severely helped us against childhood diseases that used to have severe consequences for future life.

[@piscinediquinto]

the geek hasnt any knowlede on molecular biology ,you can also reverse ageing look at sinclairs work, ai will help enormously but in the end we are doomed from heat death the universe will be extinguished

[@JohnWick-kv1bz]

Research Enoch and the emerald tablets