Mongol Heavy Cavalry Part 2: Mongols vs Jin Dynasty

In the second part of our series on Mongol heavy cavalry, we look at its role in the wars against the Jurchen ruled Jin Dynasty of North China, and how, in turn, the Mongols fared against the Jin's own heavy cavalry. What manuevers won at the Battle of the Badger's Mouth Pass? What about the fearsome Iron Pagoda? and What led to the Jin's best performance against the Mongols?
Part 1: looking at equipment and what sources say about it: • Mongol Heavy Cavalry P...
Part 3: Mongols vs Khwarezm, Delhi and Qipchaqs • Mongol Heavy Cavalry P...
Part 4: Mongol Cavalry vs Knights: • Mongol Heavy Cavalry P...
Video series on Nomad Blacksmithing: • Nomad Blacksmithing 1:...
Full Source List: docs.google.co...
Select Bibliography
‘Ala-ad-Din ‘Ata-Malik Juvaini. The History of the World-Conqueror. Vol 1.
Campaigns of Činggis Qan [Shengwu Qinzheng Lu 聖武親征錄]. Translated by Christopher
Atwood. Forthcoming
“History of Jin 金史.” Chinese Notes.
The Hypatian Codex II: Galician-Volynian Chronicle. Trans. George A. Perfecky
Ibn al-Athir. The Chronicle of Ibn al-Athir for the Crusading Period from al-Kamil fi'l-Ta'rikh,
Part 3, The Year 589-629/1193-1231: The Ayyubids after Saladin and the Mongol Menace. Translated by D.S. Richards
Ibn Battuta. The Travels of Ibn Battuta, A.D. 1325-1354. Volume II. Translated by H.A.R. Gibb.
John de Plano Carpini. “History of the Mongols.” In Mission to Asia: Translated by a Nun of Stanbrook Abbey. Edited by Christopher Dawson,
Li Xinchuan. “Selections from Random Notes from Court and Country since the Jianyan Years." Trans. Christopher Atwood
Maurice’s Strategikon: Handbook of Byzantine Military Strategy. Translated by George T.
Dennis.
Marco Polo. The Description of the World. Translated by Sharon Kinoshita.
Master Roger. Master Roger’s Epistle to the Sorrowful Lament upon the Destruction of the
Kingdom of Hungary by the Tatars. Translated by Janos M. Bak and Martyn Rady.
Matthew Paris. Matthew Paris’s English History. Vol. 1. From the year 1235 to 1273. Translated by J.A. Giles.
Peng Daya and Xu Ting. “A Sketch of the Black Tatars.” Trans. Christopher Atwood.
Rashiduddin Fazlullah. Jami’ u’t-tawarikh: Compendium of Chronicles: Trans. W.M. Thackston.
Rashīd al-Dīn. The Successors of Genghis Khan. Translated by John Andrew Boyle.
The Secret History of the Mongols. Trans. Igor de Rachewiltz.
Simon of St. Quentin. Simon of Saint-Quentin: History of the Tartars. Translated and edited by Stephen Pow, Tamás Kiss, Anna Romsics, Flora Ghazaryan.
Thomas of Split. History of the Bishops of Salona and Split. Translated by Damir Karbić,
Mirjana Matijević Sokol, and James Ross Sweeney
William of Rubruck. The Mission of Friar William of Rubruck: His Journey to the Court of the Great Khan Möngke, 1253-1255. Translated by Peter Jackson
Zhao Gong. “A Memorandum on the Mong-Tatars.” Trans. Christopher Atwood.
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[@zakkart]

Really appreciate the detailed and accurate equipment of the Jin troops being contrasted on the Mongol troops arms and armor.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

That's also one of the most enjoyable parts of making these; researching into costume and armour and seeing them come together is always one of my favourite parts.

[@huiyu6739]

When the Tang Dynasty was divided into more than a dozen kingdoms, the nomads had Han artisans who inherited the Tang Dynasty's armor and weapons technology, and the equipment advantage was no longer exclusive to the Chinese coupled with the possession of the original war horse production area, so that the Song Dynasty in the period of expansion stopped the idea of aggression.

[@huiyu6739]

In order to legally obtain Tang inheritance, the Liao and Song emperors called each other brothers, and the rising Jin state betrayed the alliance contract and forced the later Song emperors to be nephews, lol

[@samwill7259]

One thing that has been implanted in me by my historical education. Riding a horse is HARD. Firing a bow on a moving horse is HARD. Just moving well in heavy armor is HARD. You basically need to spend your entire life learning and practicing how to do all of these things at the same time. If you lose a horseman, not only does it take forever to get a new one but his son has no one to learn from!

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Yes! You don't train a horse archer, you raise one. Part of the reason it tended to be very difficult for non-steppe societies to field their own non-mercenary horse archers, or have them be comparable in skill to a steppe horsemen. It's just hard to compete with a person who has literally spent most of their life on horseback and going through these skills at every possible opportunity. If your society isn't belt around supporting that kind of system, it's really difficult to make that sort of time investment pay-off.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

And that's why these armies had so many tactics that minimized the risk to these horsemen (fight long range, avoid close combat, rely on local ally/vassal troops, send prisoners ahead in "meat waves," and flee when the battle starts to go badly).

[@arystanbeck914]

In Steppe societies, kids learned to ride a horse before learning to walk. Also, they hunted using the same tactics as in battlefields and there have been sports like Kokpar (Kokboru) where teamwork while horse riding is practiced.

[@-straenbegleitgrun-6499]

best history channel for mongol history by far

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Thank you! I am very glad you think so, though I can't imagine there is much competition.

[@MrTTuguldur]

Very lovely to see Mongolian traditional writing on the Mongolia when on showing the map.

[@tolui1874]

Your artwork is just as good as your content. Top notch Jack

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Thank you! Very glad you enjoyed it

[@rafael_yorkhan8805]

Aqui estamos, otra vez reunidos los fans de la historia imperial mongola para ver otro video del canal especializado en el tema. Me encantaa!!

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

gracias hombre!

[@snuscaboose1942]

Makes me want to play Mount & Blade, great video, well presented.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Glad you enjoyed! Never played Mount and Blade myself but it sounds like it's a lot of fun. Hopefully some of things here become useful tactics for players.

[@pamndz1]

For a long time I have wanted to know these kinds of information about the steppe peoples as I’ve always dreamed of spending time in Central Asia and give my hand at nomadic living. Thank you for this information I honestly think you’re the only person I’ve found in the internet who covers the steppe people in such concise and entertaining way. I even use all the sources you provide to further my own studies of it, so thank you again for your dedication to teaching this.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

I am very pleased to hear this! This has always been the aim of the channel and I am especially glad to know you make use of the sources I list as well. I started the channel for exactly this purpose (wanting someone to fill this niche) so I can only hope I can do the same for others.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

In the second part of our series on Mongol heavy cavalry, we look at its role in the wars against the Jurchen ruled Jin Dynasty of North China, and how, in turn, the Mongols fared against the Jin's own heavy cavalry. What manuevers won at the Battle of the Badger's Mouth Pass? What about the fearsome Iron Pagoda? and What led to the Jin's best performance against the Mongols? Part 1: Overview on weapons and equipment: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jaandmmva9J9as0 Part 3: Mongols vs Khwarezm, Delhi and Qipchaqs kzbin.info/www/bejne/gpC9eqporpmqrLc Part 4: Mongol Cavalry vs Knights: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lWO9mJ-wfcl_eKs Part 5: Mongols vs Mamluks kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGjMm3SdfrmksKc

[@crebspark]

idol! hope youll do more or longer :)

[@crebspark]

would love to see a feature series about Mongol invasion of baghdad

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

@@crebspark In future maybe! I have a general idea of the videos I plan for the next while. I'd like to do something a little smaller in scale than this blacksmithing and heavy cavalry series I have just done.

[@crebspark]

@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory awesome thanks! :D

[@LuCa8_]

I’m loving this mini series keep it up man

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

There's going to be five total in this series, so there's plenty more to come!

[@lcrow3104]

Enemies of mongols: "rush their missile units!" Mongols with warbow and heavy armor: "sure"

[@Nom_AnorVSJedi]

At the battle of Mohi against European knights, the Mongol heavy cavalry didn’t fair well apparently. Batu was pissed off with Subetai for coming to the rescue late.

[@majungasaurusaaaa]

The bridge was a deadly chokepoint.

[@Brandonhayhew]

stick to horse archers

[@huiyu6739]

The Liao Dynasty, the Jin Dynasty, the Western Xia Dynasty, and the Song Dynasty all had the most elite 3,000 special heavy cavalry legions in their prosperous times. The Mongols were more organized in their heyday and the central army had about 10,000 elite cavalry, so it's not surprising that the Mongols were able to defeat the Chinese.

[@weifan9533]

A late reply, but allow me to say excellent video, and your drawings of the Mongol cavalry as well as the Song infantry are quite spot on.

[@ricedealer56]

Always great to see your video

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Glad you took the time to watch it!

[@CliosPaintingBench]

This is one of the rare times we get an in-depth exploration of Jin equipment in warfare, thank you so much!

[@johnthiam2446]

Iron Pagoda, one of the greatest heavy calvary that even Song Dynasty feared. Don armour from top to toe and armed with long spear, bow and arrow and also straight 2 handed swords. Mongol victory was due to the timing when Iron pagoda was at their weakest. Try invade the Jin 20-30 years earlier, I think history will not know about who is Genghis Khan.

[@longlost247]

if Yue Fei ever fought genghis khan it'll be one of the most intense and close battles we can see.

[@wei270]

in the time of the Qin dynasty i known this would be way back, but they found the best way to counter Mongol cavalry is also with light cavalry, but armed with a cross bow. they said that the mounted cross bows would be able to counter traditional Mongol with the superior accuracy of the cross bow, even when the volume of missiles is 3 to 1 in favor of the Mongol.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Yes I believe in the Tang Dynasty, similar practices took place as well. And in the Qing Dynasty, their Mongol and Manchu cavalry were some of the main troops employed against the Dzunghars.

[@Huben57]

the 铁浮图 was completely defeated by Yue Fei's song infantry despite being outnumbered by them. Song had great generals: The Yang Family which had beaten the Liao Yue Fei who defeated the Jurchens in their prime with hundreds of thousands of the Jin heavy cavalry and Jin elite mobile cavalry Meng Gong who completely destroyed the mongols on the yangtze river

[@johnthiam2446]

Mongol successful of conquering Song was not due to mongol prowess but the skill of foot soldier and attacking walled cities by the Han Chinese. Tho Song Dynasty is the main Chinese dynasty, there were many northern or even southern chinese that are in service of the Jin Dynasty for their prowess in infantry warfare. Many did not slaughtered by the mongols but merely changed of masters.

[@user-ox9ju5zh5k]

Very interesting

[@pignokor5536]

Liao(Kitai), Jin(Jurchen), Mongols, all monsters. each one of them top military power of the world at the time

[@kunnu6752]

Also Goryeo and their defenses

[@Maperator]

Great content. Very rarely are such niche topics covered and in such detail.

[@Sctn2labor]

You're going to break me of my revulsion of using "Calvary" in place of "Cavalry." Calvary is a hill in Jerusalem and means "Place of the Skull." Cavalry is dudes on horseback. ... Granted... Mongol Cavalry did make a few Calvaries, so...

[@user-tc7lm9yg3m]

the series REALLY picked up from this video! much more exciting than the steppe metallurgy series though that was equally important!

[@mericanwit]

Outstanding as always

[@alexandermenschmaschine5361]

Great thanks for the video. Absolutely interesting as usual. Eagerly anticipating video about the role of cavalry in the war with Chorasmia

[@AGS363]

Oh, so the Delhi Sultanat will appear next time! Now I am hyped.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Yes! Not a long segment unfortunately; the sources on the Delhi armies in the 13th/early 14th century are unfortunately not super detailed, but it should be a suitable, if brief overview.

[@AltaicGigachad]

What was the army size of the Mongols and Khwarazmians at the battle of Indus, the Khwarazmians had a huge army at all.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

According to Juvaini (one of the main sources for the entire Khwarezmian campaign), at the battle of Parwan, Jalal al-Din had around 60-70,000 troops against 30,000 Mongols under Shigi Qutuqu. In the fighting over the spoils after Parwan, one of Jalal al-Din's generals abandoned him, and took with him 20-30,000 troops. it is also indicated that Jalal al-Din lost a few thousand men in the actual fighting at Parwan. So by the time of the Indus River battle, Jalal al-Din had perhaps 30-40,000. Meanwhile Chinggis Khan had called up as many of the Mongolian armies in Khwarezm as he could; this could have been anywhere from 80-100,000, though I don't believe it is directly stated anywhere (some of the Mongol army was on campaign elsewhere, such as with Jebe and Subedei).

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

The one thing the sources emphasize though, is that at Parwan, Jalal al-Din had numerical superiority; he lost that in the aftermath of the battle, while Chinggis Khan in turn brought all the armies he could to the battle at the Indus and dramatically outnumbered Jalal al-Din.

[@AltaicGigachad]

@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory Jalal Al-din was a great warrior but due Genghis Khans Military genius he was badly defeated, I possible think that either Indus or Yehuling could be his greatest battle.

[@papazataklaattiranimam]

Next video is all about Turkic warriors 😎

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

A whole bunch of them all over the place, too.

[@benettwillbanks5868]

Which source was it that writes about the Mongols using live prisoners?

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Many of them. Just off hand: in China, it's noted by Li Xinchuan (writing in 1216); for Khwarezmian campaigns, Ibn al-Athir (writing 1220s) and Juvaini (working for Mongols and writing in 1250s) note it; in Europe, John di Plano Carpini, Thomas of Split and Master Roger all mention it (they write in period 1240-1260 and either were eye-witness, or spoke with survivors). It is also noted in the campaigns against Japan but I'm not entirely sure which source records it (Hachiman Godukun?). I could find more if I spent some time on it.

[@benettwillbanks5868]

@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory Thanks a million for the detailed response!

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

@@benettwillbanks5868 One of the fun (and at times horrific) aspects of the Mongol campaigns is that a lot of people all around the world experienced the exact same tactics and wrote about them, allowing us to make a lot of comparisons in how they were utilized. Very rarely do we only get a single source discussing a type of tactic, but will instead have multiple individual writers from different parts of the world writing about it.

[@kunnu6752]

If Temujin invaded the Jin on their peak Mongol would have been stayed in China rather than expanding westward.

[@beepboop204]

[@abukharan5774]

Good stuff

[@user-ko6tv7jr9x]

In Chinese history there are more than one “Jin dynasty” , some of them In Chinese name have the same words (but historians will add another title to distinguish them) but the other is not.

[@metarus208]

More on Muqali and Jebe pls

[@non122fsd4]

Great info. Just wish you would say cavalry instead of the hill Jesus was crucified on.

[@realgnomepatrol]

Inside me are 2 wolves: One is a nomad urging to die in a battle in a far of land and leave 30 children and 9 wives behind and the other urges to be a medeival knight with full plate armor dead from drinking too much beer by 26

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Considering how many Mongol Khans died prematurely around age 35 and were also alcoholics, you could probably have both in this case.

[@realgnomepatrol]

@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory If the dead due to alcoholism isn't caused by beer I don't want it

[@Brandonhayhew]

heavy or light has something to do with logistics

[@georgepats1168]

Does anyone have a link for the music at the end, I want to play Attila while blasting this

[@Spartan_Disiplin]

why especially nayman ? Why there are no deserter among Keraites and Khamag Mongols

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

That's just what the sources specify. Not impossible that there weren't others, but we only get the explicit mention of the Jin Shi (Dynasty History of Jin) of Uyghurs, Naiman, Tanguts, Qiang, Qon, Yellow Uyghurs, and Qipchaqs, as well as Northern Chinese.

[@Spartan_Disiplin]

​@@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory Did you read that Jin shi ? Is there any info on Chinggis Khan's pre 1206 carrier and his supposed captivity

[@Rugged-Mongol]

"C-a-v-*a*-l-r-y," not 'cal-vary.'

[@eddierudolph8702]

But those cows did have horns.

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

Nature's spears, to be sure.

[@michaelmacmannrtr9980]

Cav>Cal

[@tanberetO]

Cavalry nor calvary

[@Spartan_Disiplin]

Were Ottomans realy aware of cumans in hungary and how was their relation with them. I think it should be intresting for Turks for found their christian,Tatar-looking cousins in Hungary

[@majungasaurusaaaa]

The Ottomans were mostly urban Anatolians who were previously greek speaking orthodox christians. The turkic conquerors were quickly genetically diluted and would have cared little for cumans.

[@cudanmang_theog]

You could have used ai generated artworks for better sake

[@TheJackmeisterMongolHistory]

I would not do so, and I will never do so. There is no point using those programs, for they will only generate images with nonsense armours, clothing and appearances which is utterly the antithesis of this channel.

[@majungasaurusaaaa]

Why bother when his drawings a million times more accurate. They're one of the most accurate ones you can find on the Internet.