Let's Talk About RWBY's Cast Bloat

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Rwby has a lot of characters, obviously. but why is that considered such a problem for the show? Let's dive in and talk about it.
Btw, I've been re-watching Park's and rec lately.

[@Jordan-gp3mj]

I still can’t believe Velvet was a year older, had her team, yet NO ONE stood up for her during the bullying. Coco should’ve shut that shit down day 1

[@253Monty]

Yeah that shit made no sense. Cardin wasn't even strong, like she could've just defended herself.

[@Jordan-gp3mj]

@@253Monty That part too!🤷🏾‍♂️

[@Step43099]

Cause they didn't think that far ahead about it

[@Ramsey276one]

Cardin having Coco handbag logo imprinted on his face for half the semester XD

[@theshire9173]

Cause her team didn’t exist yet in volume 1

[@MisteRRYouTuby]

The cast isn’t the problem. The writers not knowing what to DO with them, is.

[@Danny30108]

Ikr

[@Ramsey276one]

That makes a BIG DIFFERENCE

[@matthewharner1744]

which, in turn, also makes the cast the problem. They are bitting more than they can chew.

[@MisteRRYouTuby]

@@matthewharner1744 It all comes down to the writers, not the cast.

[@mauriceisaac3646]

At this point, not even Blake has any reason to still be in the show, other than being Yang's girlfriend.

[@dylans.1741]

Fun Fact: Yang is the only one of the main characters to have ever said Watts's name. And she only ever did it once

[@robertfaulkkner5508]

Wait, really? When?

[@del78magnum95]

I don't have the time to check so I'm going to trust you on that. But it's ironic that the only RWBY girl to ever say Watt's name isn't the atlas native one, as one would expect

[@dylans.1741]

@@robertfaulkkner5508 It was in Volume 7. That's all I remember

[@saghwteam]

@@dylans.1741 Gravity if my memory serves me right, kindly correct me if I got it wrong

[@adamdaman6784]

@@robertfaulkkner5508it was during the moment when ironwood and rwby were arguing at the end

[@theshire9173]

I can’t believe you didn’t mention the popular fan idea that Ozpin should have reincarnated into Jaune instead of Oscar. As much as Oscar is cute and nice, he really is unnecessary when we already have a nice guy who isn’t the best at combat

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

I mentioned it in my video talking about Oscar! :)

[@PhoenixFireZero]

Plus, it's hard to argue people like Qrow are good guys when we see them belting crying children in the face. Bad optics.

[@BeetleTricks411]

​@@thejudgmentalcritter6584 Volume 9 pretty much proved why Oscar had to be Ozpin's host though, 90% of the main cast would either die from depression or sacrifice, Nora, Weiss and Oscar are probably the only characters who aren't extremely closed in. Oscar specifically works because he understands the importance of others being brought together(like Ozpin) but is sincere(like Penny) resulting in Ruby questioning her repression before both go through identity arcs in Volume 8 and Volume 9

[@Ramsey276one]

I hope there's a fanfic doing that Jaune: I... I WANT to be a hero. But *not like this!* "I... didn't CHOOSE either, Jaune."

[@Savannah_Simpson]

That would be stupid. Jaune’s already the writers pet why give him MORE preferential treatment?

[@TheVillainousMrPuns]

This show’s excess cast is like buying a set of a few nice plates and silverware and then proceeding to buy paper plates for every individual piece of food so you can avoid having to maintain the few good ones in the sink for a few more days.

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

This is literally the best example I've ever seen anyone make about the cast.

[@rexlumontad5644]

Rooster Teeth has a bad habit of hiring expensive voice actors to be part of the cast so that people will watch if their favorite VAs are in their shows like RWBY, GenLock and Red Vs Blue.

[@Lucy-bd6us]

I still can't believe they got Laura Bailey to voice Amber for all of 1 tiny fight. Like, sure her not being there for long means it's cheaper, but it could have been even cheaper if you didn't hire one of the biggest voice actresses for 20 minutes.

[@SaiyanGamer95]

Don't forget that they don't even pay their own in-house VAs all that well. The VAs for Pyrrha and Blake had issues, but where threatened with being recast if they complained. And they (along with the VAs for the other members of Team RWBY), have stated that much of their income comes from conventions.

[@iwakeupandboomimarat]

genlock was insane for this tbh

[@thegrandsonicfan117]

@@SaiyanGamer95 Even some of their bigger names seem to get treated poorly. Joel Heyman and Kathleen Zuelch are no longer there. As far as I know, they weren't even given a goodbye on the website. Worth noting that they may have been the jerks, but still - they were huge at RT and got dropped without a farewell. If the big personalities get treated poorly, then it's no surprise that everyone else is too.

[@fenrirsrage4609]

Honestly Elijah Wood did amazing as Sigma tho.

[@sonoci]

Oh.... Penny, Velvet, Cardin, and Sun being a team is so smart??? like oh my god that immediately has such interesting dynamic ideas. Like how does Cardin feel being on a team with three people he likely looks down on? Who's the leader? Was Cardin a decent guy before he WASN'T made team leader in a team with 2 Faunus and an odd girl so he started taking it out on them? How would Sun stand up to Cardin bullying Velvet?? Oh my god it's so much better and interesting aaaa EDIT: OH MY GOD YOU POINTING OUT THE SIMILARITIES TO TEAM RWBY

[@notallthatevil]

I remember growing up with digimon, a series with 16 main characters, but I knew how each and every single one of them interacted with eachother and why they were still in the story. I cared about those dorks. I also remember Rwby volume 6 where Sun, a main character who has fun interactions with the main 4 and participated in every single volume finale, left and I looked at ren and Nora and thought “why are you two still here? Your story was over 2 volumes ago and you guys don’t do anything?” Anyway, digimon > Rwby

[@marocat4749]

Yep, and its not like digimons cast was that complex, but good used. nd hving character arcs. And conflict. Hell even digimon 2 that ,has not that great main characters, ken is amazing and complex and the rest is functional, and yeah ther wasa lot meddling. And when digimon charactersarent that deep, they dont set upto be, it has purpose.

[@patrickborchert5336]

Now you got me singing the theme song in my head.

[@silvignis2028]

As a fellow digimon fan hard agree. EVEN the english dub is better than rwby at this point and digimons english dub screwed over some characters(like Davis)

[@BeetleTricks411]

Digimon 02 Episode 13(Dark Ocean) is basically Ruby's arc in Volume 9

[@TheSouthparkchecker]

Come on that is an unfair comparison, Digimon is one of the best Isekai anime of all time and Rwby is... well Rwby.

[@YourLadyStar]

From your end clips and analysis, I now want an AU where Penny, Velvet, Cardin, and Sun are a team. It sounds like it'd be the most chaotic fun escapades ever!

[@thomasraines1396]

The world would implode from all the sheer insanity.

[@evrint]

Penny Polendina, Sun Wukong, Velvet Scarlatina, Cardin Winchester. Team *PWWS* (Puce) Team *PSVC* (Pacific) Team *PCWS* (Pecans) Team *PSCS* (Pistachios)

[@itspienoon7883]

​​@@evrintTeam PSVC (Pacific) sounds like a really good team name for them. And once again it compliments the foil element to contrast Team RWBY (Ruby), because y'know RWBY is red and those guys are blue. Red Vs Blue lol

[@evrint]

@@itspienoon7883 Perfect catch!

[@Gdsryrox]

@@itspienoon7883 I need to see a fanfic of that

[@Froggsroxx]

A chronic issue of "oh this design is cool put it in the show" without actually doing characterization

[@_.Max.i.mus._]

so frustrating 🤦

[@selena44842]

You know you have a writing problem when your supposed main characters can't even pass the lamp test

[@falconeshield]

What's the lamp test?

[@thomasraines1396]

Lamp test?

[@selena44842]

@@falconeshield it's a test used to highlight a character's lack of agency or plot relevance, basically if you can replace a character with an inanimate object like a lamp and it doesn't hurt the story then it indicates that the character is superfluous to the narrative

[@thomasraines1396]

@@selena44842interesting thank you.

[@cmtcomet]

@@selena44842actually it’s the “sexy lamp test” and it’s specifically supposed to measure the importance of female characters and their traits outside of just being a woman. Not sure why the original comment just said lamp test, or why they even mentioned it at all since there are plenty of male characters that don’t do much, but I dunno

[@eoinmcmahon3569]

To be honest, I got into RWBY fanfiction purely to see more character interactions, so this hits the nail on the head

[@AnimeIsArt21]

Cause and effect.

[@RapTapTap69]

Especially "cough cough" *those* interactions 😏😏

[@orangeismyfavoritecolor]

@@RapTapTap69Calm down there, hormone haver

[@alphalightning00frost67]

My favorite one is a gamer fic because: Dude got 40k imperial assassin armor + gun Some samurai armor set + akame ga kill 1 shot 1 kill katana Bro runs a faunus orphanage Developes menagerie military and developement Takes out jacques schnee Recruits Adam + amber + penny + willow + vernal + illia + sif from dark souls Saves summer Jailed cinder, mercury, emerald Humbled raven's ass Doesn't join ozpin or beacon academy ACTUALLY FINISHES THE FIGHT He beat both ozpin and salem, and when the gods came back and decided to annahilate humanity and faunus, he stops them first and imprisoned both their souls in his body And most importantly, DOESN'T HAVE A HAREM, mission comes first Now i know what you're gonna say: "What does THIS have to do with character interaction?" Yeah my bad, i was halfway through writing this when i realized "huh... there isn't is there? Welp too late" no there ain't much because the story was pretty much focused on finishing the fight. FOR ONCE in a rwby fanfic it doesn't actually end on vol.3 with THE SAME dang ending with our oc mc either lost or dead. "Pretty sure the MC's just a gary stu bro" True. But he's pretty much won most of the fights because he KNOWS the future (okay that kinda doesn't count), plus he started out on atlas and pretty much helped the faunus there by clearing out grim for free and fixing them housing and house appliances, plus gives out tips "Isn't this just a power fantasy?" True. I ain't got no defense for that, but come on, it's a GAMER fic (Even if doesn't count as a valid argument lol) "How bout the writing?" Kinda crap ngl, not bad, not good either.

[@yung710]

And with the Cardin being on a team with 2 faunus he'd clearly have a arc of overcoming his bias and probably becoming a better teammate and probably becoming a fuckin wall of a man who can protect his teammates (probably velvet) as a sort of flip on his initial interactions with her IT WRITES ITSELF IT WAS SO EASY

[@thomasraines1396]

That sounds awesome.

[@ReDestrobo]

So much potential with cardin that it is crazy no one utilize that potential…

[@Argnos2293]

Imagine him adopting the use of a shield and changing his mace for a shorter one if he notices something like his team lacking a dedicated wall and remembers that a shield worked fairly well for that Jaune fellow. And then he could strike the shield with the dust on his mace to let loose different elemental explosions for that rwby flair.

[@SymbolCymbals2356]

@@Argnos2293 I love the idea of Cardin integrating with his team by somewhat copying what worked for Jaune while still having too much of an ego to admit he copied from Jaune because that'd mean Jaune was better and more skilled then him

[@Argnos2293]

@@SymbolCymbals2356 I’m thinking of something along the lines that now that his team is in actual real danger and that there are now lives on the line he realizes that he can’t afford to be so childish. So he comes to understand that he needs to change himself for his team and for the people he has to protect. This involves adapting his style and tactics in ways he would never have done before. He’d be pretty miffed at first having to look to that scrawny boy for inspiration, but he would come to be satisfied with the results in the end, taking that little step into becoming a great huntsman.

[@eachthebabyperry6716]

Random thought: Have Sun fight Yang and get severely injured instead Mercury. Now Yang has a bigger weight on her shoulders besides getting kicked out of the tournament. Blake's comment on why Yang reminds her of Adam could hit harder and force her to leave. Honestly, having a faunas get injured live and having various kingdoms react positively or negatively to it would be more interesting. Also, why didn't they have Cinder or anyone in their team just out Blake as a former White Fang member, that could do even more damage to Beacons reputation.

[@yukarilolz]

I love this idea! Especially if they still had Emerald do her thing, and Sun is none the wiser to the plan. Its basically pitting your enemies agaist each other

[@thomasraines1396]

Oh damn that sounds pretty cool.

[@victoriatowns9237]

The writers are notorious for not being able to use the Faunus to their best effect. They tiptoe around the idea of having a marginalized group without really showing the nitty gritty to make the audience care. They apparently aren’t capable of making genuine conflict that isn’t familial or typical “good be evil”.

[@localdude2979]

Bro that team of Penny Cardin Velvet and Sun sounds unironically AMAZING. Like WHAT THE FU CK! ITS Fking LEGIT.

[@trilight3597]

Especially if Sun and Cardin talk about his habits and they...my gosh it's genius and simple.

[@ayal92]

Cardin partnering with two faunus and Penny being in charge would be glorious

[@localdude2979]

yeah it would be amazing, lesgooo @@ayal92

[@localdude2979]

exactly.. a Sun vs Cardin would be cool to see, while I believe Sun would win, I'd still want to see that fight, its the classic agility vs strenght @@trilight3597

[@arnowisp6244]

​@@ayal92Just Penny being I charge writes itself

[@Ani_Musician]

It's kinda hilarious that at 1:48, you bring up Weiss talking to Sun, given that the only time they get close is when Weiss is stuck in her racism era and that's never been actually rectified. Coulda had a moment in Vol 6 before Sun got kicked out the show

[@seasalticecream]

Would’ve been nice to see Weiss and Sun interact more than once when Sun was technically one of the reasons that Weiss became less racist. Crazy that the writers don’t capitalize on this type of stuff.

[@kingnias5318]

anyone notice how whitley and winter are literally related and nvr once had a conversation and barely ever reference one another

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

I theorize they never initially intended for Weiss to have a brother, and they just threw him into volume 4 because they needed someone to sat certain smarmy things to Weiss. Then after that they stopped caring about him.

[@kirbycat1977]

Can you imagine if Pyrrha was friends with Penny before their fight. They both are smiling and duking it out and then you see Pyrrha's face morph into horrification. We see her run to penny's body, tossing her weapons to the ground and hold her body looking down at her head, crying and screaming her name and apologizing over and over. That would've been even more heart wrenching than Pyrrha's death if we actually saw their build up and then hearing her screams during it would hurt us so much more

[@TheEmerald97]

They could've done it by having Ruby invite the two for a trip shopping for gear. Like they could've had them become a fun little group of friends outside of Rwby.

[@shadowclaw7210]

@@TheEmerald97also now you say that, I don’t remember Ruby n Pyrrha interacting.

[@bowserjrimacasualshutup6754]

​@@shadowclaw7210there was one interaction between them where they went into the red forest in vol 1

[@thomasraines1396]

@@bowserjrimacasualshutup6754that wasn’t an interaction, that was exposition, it wasn’t even between Ruby and Pyrrha solely, Weiss was there for it to.

[@bowserjrimacasualshutup6754]

@@thomasraines1396 i was referring to the scene with ruby asking pyrrha if she was ok only for nora to stealthily drink from the jar pyrrha had xd even then, it was miniscule

[@calxiyn]

I think about this every day, I’m glad someone put it into a concrete list of the issues. I have a couple rewrites to tackle “character bloat”, like the Ace Ops being Team FNKI or Robyn being WF. Team CFVY being Team SSSN etc. I never actually released any of them. This makes me want to revisit it because I feel like a lot of characters could be “merged” together. The Ace Ops especially make me really mad because I feel like we could have had Ciel + Team FNKI and then we get to see the “fun” team from Atlas become brainwashed with propaganda. Edit: lol I just hit the part of the video where you also suggest something similar. Now I REALLY want to do this.

[@KritoSkywaker]

Fanfiction material as I see that.

[@BeetleTricks411]

Elm in the Ace-Ops had it the worse since I forget her name more so than all the others because she barely gets anything compared to Marrow, Vine, and Harriet. Same could be said for happy huntresses Fionna and Joanna, they are added it yet barely have any focus compared to May Marigold

[@kit8588]

Off topic but I wanna mention that I can't see team "SSSN" without filling it out as "Super Social Security Number"- I don't actually know what their team name is... Season?

[@BeetleTricks411]

@@kit8588 I think it’s Sun

[@Sparksly_]

They also keep killing off their most interesting characters. Watts was honestly the most fascinating villain, with more narrative influence and charisma than anyone else on Salem's side (in a different show, he could probably be a main villain on his own). He had ties to Penny, Ironwood, and the Schnee's; he had a fun dynamic with Cinder; and he could have been a personal rival for Weiss. But that's all gone now, and there's no one around who knows just how much of the plot was his doing. Even before she became a Maiden, Penny had so much story potential. They could have explored her relationship with the military and how she feels about being a weapon of the state. Her character is steeped in themes of identity and autonomy and what it means to be alive, and they only scratched the surface. They didn't even try to explore the possible complications that could have come with reviving her, outside of Pietro sacrificing his aura, like having her come back slightly wrong or without her memories. And her second death was nowhere near as impactful as her first. Ironwood was consistently the most morally complex character ever since he was introduced. He could have been this show's Mustang, navigating the complexities of war and politics and the agony of fighting an enemy with powers far beyond your comprehension. But they wanted an easy solution to a complex problem, so they made him a villain and killed him. I think the most egregious example of this, however, is Pyrrha. She learns so much about the main plot long before anyone else. She arguably has the most agency of any character in V1-3. I don't care that her death was meant to raise the stakes and show that even the strongest can fall. It could have been so much more interesting if she had to live with the consequences of V3. She killed a person, and she failed to become a Maiden. That is such a dark place for a character to be, and it would have been so cool to see where that took her.

[@Appletank8]

some people I've talked to agreed that Jaune dying would've been a better way to raise the stakes, as a bumbling guy who faked his combat ability in a combat school while barely studied most of the time is obviously going to get himself killed if he gets into a life and death fight. Then, Pyrrha would've have to live with the consequences of not being the hero sho thought she should have been, not being able to save her own teammate. But no, Miles can't kill off his totally not self insert, who still barely improves 7 years later, and yet has multiple villains think he's interesting for some godforsaken reason.

[@eriksvoboda6973]

Regarding Pyrrha, I have long felt it would have been more interesting to have her permanently injured rather then killed. Bring her from the top to the normal, cut down her stamina so she cannot do the plot relevant missions, explore her comming to terms with being helpless to help. Her character arc could then have her learn to better others, run support, it's not like she isn't smart. Writting it out I realize it sounds a bit like All Might from Boku no Hero Academia, but that character really showed to me that there is so much potential to be mined out of rendering the best incapable of doing anything rather than just killing them off.

[@Birthday888]

The whole "killing Pyrrha to raise the stakes" is a stupid reason to kill her off anyway. Cinder killing a student doesn't do anything to establish her as a serious threat. Especially since we have zero idea if Pyrrha was strong as a student, or strong as a Huntress in general. Like, you freaking killed Ozpin. The wise, seemingly all-knowing mentor figure. At that point, he was effectively the Uncle Iroh of the show. His death would've been so much more impactful if it had been on screen, and it happened due to protecting Pyrrha, Jaune and Ruby.

[@StoogesFan]

The deaths of Ironwood, Clover, and Adam felt like the most insulting deaths. If Clovers semblance is supposed to be good luck, then wouldn't his wound inflicted by Tyrion be nonfatal, just narrowly escaping death? While I expected Adam to die at some point, having him go down as a stereotypical ex-boyfriend was just plain stupid, and Ironwood in all of Vol 8 was a complete mess.

[@PrincessLioness]

@@Appletank8I was annoyed JC didn’t mention Jaune as an example of characters stealing the spotlight from team RWBY.

[@lumzalum8863]

That team idea of Penny, Velvet, Sun & Cardin has me in a vice grip. That would actually be soo interesting. Like with two faunus on a team Cardin interaction would've been juicy and paired with Penny innocence/ inexperience would have made for some entertaining drama.

[@Taurus1014]

The more I look at the cast and story, I’m thinking… “we need a positive to negative character.” A character who joins the dark side.

[@sev1120]

Hell, they have the perfect characters already to make that shift. Blake, Yang and Jaune I feel would fit best. Blake slipping backwards into old habits, using more extreme methods against enemies and disregarding teamwork, slowly growing distant from the rest of the group. Yang, hotheaded and impatient, finally hits that ledge where there's no coming back, loses her sense of self within her semblance, and having to be contained or held back most of the time because the person she once was may as well not be there any more. And Jaune, poor poor Jaune. Doing twice the work for half the recognition, who has lost more than the other main characters in the show, finally deciding that enough is enough, and that if he can't beat Salem, well, Weiss always said he was never cut out to be a huntsman

[@Taurus1014]

@@sev1120 I can see those. I thought that’s what they were doing with Ruby in vol 9.

[@superserg4763]

Damn you Critter, now I wanna draw that Penny, Sun, Velvet and Cardin team, how dare you give a drawing prompt, unintentionally 😭❤

[@jinkwon8410]

Now that sounds like a fun writing challenge.

[@cakeday4058]

Bro, I’m doing the same thing!

[@jinkwon8410]

the thing I say about this cast is that CRWBY seems to operate under the fact that we, collectively, as an audience, should fill in the gaps of all of their relationships. We should do their work for them. This is a writer's equivalent of technical debt in a video game. Instead of actully fixing the problem, they just keep adding more and more as to make up for the problem. It's a common problem. They only rely on the "Cool" factor of these characters to be their only selling point. I just can't get separate that in my mind.

[@tearoses9940]

And when they do give the characters development, they don’t put it in the main series, they just hide it in the songs that never play in the actual show. I haven’t watched RWBY since season 4 or 5, but this was an issue since the beginning. “I wonder what Cinder’s whole motive is here?” “Oh, you have to listen to XYZ song.” Why do they give us homework instead of putting the plot in the plot? Extra material can be fun, but it’s supposed to be *extra* material, not key aspects of main characters.

[@madamemonster5171]

I remember hearing Blake's speech to Ruby in V8 about how inspired she was from Ruby and I cackled. These two have spoken what twice? And yet Blake had this whole speech about how great Ruby is when I'm like, do you two even know each other? I'm pretty sure Ruby's interacted more with Nora than her own teammate.

[@jinkwon8410]

@@madamemonster5171that's what I'm saying

[@thomasraines1396]

@@madamemonster5171it’s like how something like the CW version of The Flash has a character claim they love another despite the fact they never interacted with each other.

[@Alex_From_Florida]

The concept of team PVCS (Penny, Velvet, Cardin, Sun) being a parallel to RWBY could be an interesting story beat. If JNPR are some of the friends they hang out with, then PVCS can be their rivals that challenge each other, something like what they were setting up with the Ace Ops at the start of vol 7. Plus, the death of Penny could place them at a unique situation in the fall of Beacon. The loss of their team leader or teammate makes them struggle with fighting the grim at first, but then Velvet is convinced to use her secret weapon. However, since Coco isn’t her teammate, it would fit if the one to be encouraging her would be Cardin, completing his arc going from having a bias and being a bully into being the one that stepped up to lead his teammates for his fallen friend. Heck, maybe Sun tagging along with Blake could also be an additional arc about leaving the team after the death of Penny like Blake left after Yang’s injury. While he convinces her to rejoin RWBY, he realizes how this applies to himself as well, so when he departs in Vol 6, he’s with his team, and is going to Beacon to help recover after the fight. While I’m not sure if reviving Penny in Atlas would work, as that would be a separate discussion, it still serves a much better story with more potential if they were all were narrowed down into one team. Edit: was initially trying to fix typos, but I just noticed how this would imply that if Cardin knew Velvet’s secret ability, then he must have come such a long way since Volume 1 to the point that she was able to trust him with that secret, assuming it was kept that way for personal reasons. Maybe after his storyline with Jaune, we can see him going to try to talk with Velvet and make up for his actions, matching Jaune and Pyrrah growing a close bond at the same time, being an early build up to that moment 2 volumes later

[@TheEmerald97]

It could've worked so well. Heck they could've nixed stretchy arms, replaced with Cardin, have him take Penny's body to atlas for repairs. Then have him die for his comrades. Then have Velvet and Sun Reappear in vacuo. Let Oscar and Emerald team with them and boom you have a new team out of characters who always hung around the main people.

[@TheEmerald97]

Heck ya could've saved Coco since she was a fan favorite and make her be with Velvet and Sun in Vacuo. Then just add Oscar with Emerald going to JPR so they get the drama of working with a former enemy. Omg so many missed opportunities

[@clarehidalgo]

Polyvinyl chlorides

[@n30nx4r7]

I saw a good team name by evrant9959 PSVC (Pacific) and honestly i would love to see this concept

[@cosmicspacething3474]

11:17 Easy fix: One of them is a transfer student, and the other one got held back a year due to underperforming. Not sure if that fits their characters, (I’m not a big RWBY fan) but it’s something.

[@thomasraines1396]

That could’ve worked.

[@silvignis2028]

I am so happy someone finally talked about how characters dont interact with each other when it'd be amazing...we NEEDED Weiss and Adam to interact but nooooo its aaaall about Blake and how she is he victim or something... But oh well Blakes personality since then was basically "I, Yang, yay" like it was for Yang "I, Blake, yay"

[@iamdivan7368]

Beacon is supposedly still functioning under the new management btw. RT, wanna address the most prominent setting in the series, the one where the show actually starts in and the most famous and well remembered part of the series? No? Anybody?

[@NoahVoxwasHere]

Wait, it is?!? You're telling me that Beacon, after being destroyed with a giant Wyvern Grimm corpse at its very top, is up and running again with new management??? And we haven't heard, ANYTHING, about it??? That has to be a joke- Tell me this is a joke--

[@elae4051]

"Uhhh they got their GEDs"

[@mauriceisaac3646]

I hated how Glynda was an important member of Beacon and was basically Ozpin's right-hand man during the 1st 3 volumes, and then just wrote her off for the rest of the series.

[@Appletank8]

​@@mauriceisaac3646I think it was in part because the VA left? But they've recasted VAs before so I dunno.

[@viridian8786]

​@@NoahVoxwasHereI mean, there's still 0 global communications. Ruby broadcast was for like 4 minutes. Makes sense that we never heard anything that's happening but I agree WHAT THE FUCK IS VALE DOING RN

[@fandomonium3789]

This problem makes me think of the final season of Teen Titans. They'd already defeated Trigon. Where else could the show go from there? So they brought in the Brotherhood of Evil and the show's finale wasn't just the main titans versus a couple new badies. It was a mega super team-up of every single villain the show has ever featured working together, along with the new heroes dripfed to the audience over the course of the season. So, you had a genuinely large cast of heroes and villains engaging in one epic final showdown. Some characters were more mooks than others, but other heroes and villains were memorable allies and threats. Half of them didn't get speaking roles, but that wasn't the point. The point was the spectacle of all these allies and enemies facing off in one final showdown of good vs evil.

[@Mc-DonaldsWifi]

I'm a fan of One Piece and BLEACH, both shows that have a giant cast of characters, and I really love them all. I always thought it was because the creators did a great job at creating so many characters, but now I think this vid helped me understand that it really does come down to the interactions the protags have with the other characters they meet in new locations. Even when its the antags meeting the new characters, those first interactions matter just as much as the protags'. Also-also, love the Team Penny, Cardin, Velvet and Sun idea. I would love to see a few episodes of them.

[@marocat4749]

Ok bleachis mixed, yes its hadled better,butthat isnt hard. And in that case it takes away from ichigo trauma and being downtrotten and his friends to have. Same with naruto in reverse where you have promising support that is vastly sidelined. Iagree both do that better but are really flawed too. like vizards are done dirty due the bloat.

[@PrincessLioness]

@@marocat4749Yeah a lot of popular shows have this. While RWBY isn’t good, if we analyzed a lot of nostalgia shows the same way they would also come off a bad. Some of the examples she gave also have problems with character bloat.

[@yukarilolz]

​@@PrincessLionessyour right! I think most the problem is that these shows start off with a cool idea and then story comes in way too late. Writing is difficult and usally good writing takes like mutiple drafts, which some people dont have the time for or dont invest in

[@falconeshield]

Bleach is not a good example. Every arc introduces a new set of bloated cast that doesn't carry over aside from fandom favourites. And the main ones barely change outside of power ups. Ichigo could've had zero adventure times and he'd still have ended up on his dad's couch taking over his job with the other kidhood friend he ignored until he was 18 (not Tatsuki, not the one that makes sense) and started a family with, with no hint whatsoever that he was gonna take over his dad's clinic. I still say Bleach isn't as obscure as DNAngel in the west is because One Piece suffered the 4kids treatment. Without that people would see it as the YYH rip off it is. Kubo didn't even make it when it was called Zombie powder!

[@thomasraines1396]

@@falconeshieldBleach is a Yu Yu Hakusho rip off?

[@antondevonlh]

I think Winter, Penny and Ciel in the Ace Ops would be a good change. I would like to keep Clover and Merrow, though. It would have been fun to introduce Clover as Winter's protoge, to replace her as Ace Ops leader when she eventually gets Maiden Powers. Qrow and Clover hitting it off would have been a fun dichotomy to his tension with Winter (remember when they had tension and fought? Too bad RT doesn't). Then when Clover dies, both of them blame themselves and the other. The talks between the two eventually lead to Winter's betrayal of Ironwood, and it is Ironwood's isolation (loses Clover to Tyrian, Penny to Ruby, Winter to Qrow, and Merrow to his conscious, and probably Ciel to the Grim or maybe Cinder). As Ironwood loses more and more of his team, he becomes less and less reasonable, leading to his killing the councilor near the end of the season (not the start) and using his biometrics to two-factor activate the bomb he plans to deploy against the city. As for the Penny/Sun/Cardin/Velvet, I would replace replace Penny with an undefined character, and keep Penny's team (only Ciel and use two of the unused NPTN team as background Atlas members) so they can be a season 2 focus team. The last person would probably be Neptune, and serve as mirrors to Weiss, Pyrrha, and Cardin (friends with a faunis instead of a bully to them, knows who Pyrra is and wants to partner with her, but on the opposite team to RWBY (making her Wiess' rival and them eventually dating at the dance an enemies to lovers arc). The wasted time on the goon squad can be repurposed to include focus on team SCVN (said as Scavenge). I do love the idea of Penny and Pyrrha meeting, though, so maybe we have all three teams searching for Blake at the end of season one, and Ruby and Phyrra are paired up when they run into Penny in town and Ruby introduces the two. Thanks for the video, I was really looking forward to this topic ^.^ Can't wait for the next one, take care until then!

[@shadowclaw7210]

Also Flynt n Neon would provide idea how far behind our heroes are. Like those guy they beat in tournament. They are now are elite group. That can beat whole team RWBY.

[@marocat4749]

oh yes remembering winter and crows tension and winter being clovers mentor would be fun. as whatever.

[@noctisastrum7495]

​@@shadowclaw7210Honestly, I would probably have Flynt and neon be apart of the happy huntresses. When we first met them they clearly didn't have any love for the upper class and Flynt's dad losing his dust shop so it would make sense if they were working with Robin possibly as secret agents giving her information on shipments.

[@shadowclaw7210]

@@noctisastrum7495 that honestly works too. Thou name it something different. Because Happy Huntresses sounds like all womens organisation

[@makito106]

8:08 Vine dying for an empty city will always be funny to me

[@skyslasher2297]

An empty city that gets trashed anyways

[@JickAudio]

I personally feel like a Blake and Weiss fight vs Adam woulda been 10x more meaningful than a Blake and Yang. 1. It finishes 2 story arcs and shows how far Blake and Weiss have grown (a fauness hating human’s especially Weiss’ family to working with her enemies daughter against her ex) like that is insane development. Even better woulda been have the WHOLE team there. It’s affected ALL of them not just Yang and Blake.

[@0blivion484]

The biggest problem with RWBY is just the potential that we can imagine and that most fanfics do...but they just take the simple and boring way to write them. I really need to stop thinking about what could have been man 😭

[@raikaschieck1634]

Imagen, Lionheart had openly swapped to Salems side an manipulated his entier school to follow him. So, all teams from mistral introduced in V3 ended up as enemies and the Hero-side had to find ways to turn them back

[@shadowclaw7210]

Imagine Lionheart survives and aids Salem

[@Birthday888]

Imagine if Lionheart had been written competently, and we didn't spend an entire volume just chilling in a couple of rooms. If only.

[@dragon200ism]

I remember I was searching for some of the art from the Celtic Phoenix fixing rwby series. And while I was scrolling in, I had to stop and read a tumblr post. Their critique of the project was that the Fixing crew kept reintroducing old characters into other slots. And my first thought was. OmG, yOu'rE RiGht!! They should just pull a crwby and create a random assortment of random ass nobodies to fix problems. Like fucks sake.

[@AlexStrife89]

I love how the only reason Ruby and Blake even interacted with each other in V8 in the first place was because Miles was like "Oh shit! I spent so much time catering to Bumblebee interactions, that I forgot to have Ruby and Blake have a meaningful conversation with each other!" And put it in the volume. Which I appreciate cause let's face it, better late than never.

[@TechBlade9000]

Tbf that's kinda Blake's fault for not having a personality really compatible with, anyone Like for bumblebee or any ship wit the cat to work she needs to be altered to have desires beyond White Fang and maybe 18+ novel addict

[@Megafighter3]

The amazing thing about Team SSSN is I have two very different takes on their inclusion. 1. Sun's introduction in volume 1 gave no indication he was even a *student* let alone on a team. Like, Sun was introduced as a stowaway and a thief, but if he was a student from Haven, why would he even stow himself away on a ship? 2. Team SSSN actually has a built-in reason to be a team, but Rooster Teeth failed to capitalize on it. Sun's based on Sun Wukong from the book Journey to the West, which is about a journey taken by four characters (Well, five, but one of them's a horse.) They could've easily used Tang Sanzang, Zhu Bajie and Sha Wujing as the basis for Sun's team if they were locked on the path of Sun being a hunstman-in-training.

[@rexlumontad5644]

RWBY: "Is it possible to learn this power of handling a huge cast of characters?" One Piece: "Not from the Jedi."

[@StoogesFan]

Or in this case "Not from a huntsman/huntress"

[@Vigriff]

@@StoogesFan Or better yet "Not From RoosterTeeth".

[@Gatherway-Duo]

If I'd been drinking something, I would have spat it out when you said Ruby and Blake have only spoken to each other a grand total of 5 or less times over the course of 9 volumes. That's absolutely insane.

[@Cykeys]

I know this has already been brought up before, but I feel that it needs to be emphasized that RWBY's cast bloat problem is probably a result of multiple smaller issues combining into a big problem.

[@selmabm3409]

That's why despite all of MHA's flaws, I really enjoy the dynamic in class 1A and B (Also, I'm a sucker for " found family class" trope). All of the students are unique and get to interact with each other on multiple occasions. They started as rivals, then they hung out for fun after being paired up for assignments and internships. Now, they work together and protect each other. And if it's not enough in the show itself, we get to see even more of it in OVA's, team up manga and school briefs books as well as official art and movies.

[@quartz9646]

I completely agree, Here's a random hypothetical, let's say one piece did this to Coby, for those who don't know, Coby was a character introduced in chapter 2 of one piece, he wanted to be a marine but was stuck as a slave on a pirate ship, so Luffy saves him and helps him get to a marine base, after some stuff happens, Koby joins the Marines, and around 430 chapters later, he comes back as a new person and a top notch marine working under a powerful marine captain, imagine if they did to him what RWBY does to CL, and instead of him coming back it was some rando, if CL came back several years later as a part of the Asops, that would have been cool, but she just... Disappeared, so instead of a Coby, we get nothing, which is just a let down

[@Wild_Pilot]

Yes, new doesn't equal better. Have all the characters from previous volumes grow with our cast, not fade into obscurity. Loved the concept of Penny, Cardin, Velvet, and Sun being on a team (Hmm... PCVS. This will need some thought and Googling). We have the machine, Penny, and its mechanic, Velvet, paired with the opposing "rich kid with everything" and "orphan with nothing" dynamic with Cardin and Sun. (Come to think of it, what IS Cardin's life like outside of bullying? Is he actually rich and privileged or a farmer with strong prejudices? Does his weapon even have a gun or Dust component?) If you don't have time to develop side characters on screen, give them a small spinoff like with Team CFVY, SSSN, Neo, and Torchwick in a series of books. They have different priorities and awareness of world events as the main cast, so their stories could be self-contained and personally impactful. Another benefit with the books is that the other kingdoms can be fleshed out further. Vacuo has a nomadic society, the only permanent fixture being Shade, the local Academy. Its deserts are teeming with dangerous wildlife as well as unique forms of Grimm. Mistral is a scattered city that lends itself to crime in its dead-end alleys. Vale is a neat, organized kingdom, with every block planned for convenience and comfort. Though Vale does have its own crime, it is a different flavor to Mistral's, being more muted and under-the-table. (The Parks and Rec soundbites for Team PCVS were an unexpected surprise, but a welcome one :). Why did Leslie and Ron fit Penny and Cardin so well?) Anyway, great video and excited to see what's next. Have a great day! (Been going at it for like 15 mins straight) Hmmm... Pacifika? no... Phlox? Maybe... Pansy? Definitely not...

[@thejudgmentalcritter6584]

I assume Cardin's privileged to some degree because of his battle training and the quality of the design on his armor. I could be wrong tho! I've also tried to come up with a good team name for them for like, MONTHS and have struggled with it!

[@shadowclaw7210]

Also imagine having bully as one cast members. That be interesting take. Like imagine Cardin growing, he suddenly has new view on world. He changes because of his team. Penny naivety is endearing, Velvet gentleness is strength not weakness, Sun easygoingness is fun. In return imagine team learning from Cardin too. Then V 3 were shit hits it. Imagine how Penny death would affect them?😊

[@Wild_Pilot]

A day later... Ptilotus? Pfeffernüsse? (Is it cheating to have a silent "P?") Pearlescence?

[@Cresentravenclaw]

Team pcvs ( pasifist) or (pacivist)

[@noctisastrum7495]

Team champagne Velvets (CPVS)😅

[@PlatinumAltaria]

There are so many things about RWBY that need changing or fixing before the show can function that it's honestly easier to just start again than to try and rewrite it.

[@NoahVoxwasHere]

(This is gonna be such a long comment...) On the idea of Cardin, Penny, Sun and Velvet being a team, I would KILL to hear other peoples ideas on that team working because holy shit, Critter, you've struck ACTUAL gold!! The perfect parallel to team RWBY has been staring us RIGHT in the face for YEARS, and I never even saw it. I'm a big fan of what Celtic Phoenix did with Velvet and Cardin in his ReWriting RWBY series, giving the pair of them the angle of overcoming Cardin's blatant racism and Velvet's cowardice to stand up to him. And then eventually ending with them being on the same team, the same terms, and actually becoming FRIENDS. THATS. GOLD! But then! You strap Penny, a hopeful leader with a goofy attitude but she kicks all kinds of ass because she is a stellar fighter, and Sun, a secondary faunus, one that I imagine WOULD have the balls to stand up to Cardin, but also is able to be the fun loving one like Yang is, THATS SO PERFECT! GAAAHHH!!! Critter, I beg you, I would kill to hear you work out this team in an AU or a rewrite or something, because this team works SO beyond amazingly. And hey! You can still make the rest of CVFY work too by putting Neptune in their team, and putting the remainder of CRDN and SNNN together (I mean, you'd have to drop one of the guys but who cares, truly). Neptune I think would fit into team CVFY perfectly. He's got high taste in fashion, at least from what I remember, (or at least his design alludes to it in my eyes, idk), so he fits well with Coco, he's a likable dummy who I imagine would be better team support for his team as a whole and could bring the personalities together. You could have way more cast interaction with this set of teams. RWBY and JNPR stay the same, no need to shake them up, but with the added teams of PCVS (Idk what it would sound like, "Pieces" maybe?? Idk, seems like a stretch.) and CNFY (Sniffy?? Man, I...I don't know- Acronyms aren't my strong suit), but think of the interactions that would bring! You get: Velvet, Blake and Sun off the bat as the Faunus friends, even if Blake still hides her faunus heritage; Sun, Yang, Neptune as your fun loving pretty idiots who can be serious when absolutely needed; Weiss and Cardin, the racists of the big friend group who end up overcoming their differences at different times from one another and coming out stronger for it; Penny, Jaune and Ruby, three absolutely unexpected leaders with silly traits that I imagine really struggle at first to come together as a team at first with their own teams but end up rising to the occasion every. single. time. You could throw Nora in there as another off the walls silly fucker, Phyra can still have a relationship with Weiss, Coco can have a rivalry with Yang or Cardin, Neptune and Sun can still be best friends just on different teams, the list literally just goes ON AND ON with those 4 teams being the main 4 teams we watch in the show!! I'd literally KILL to see someone rework RWBY to center around these groups.

[@Cresentravenclaw]

Idea :Team cvfy could still be named CVFY because Neptune full name is Neptune Vassilias (if the rest of team Cvfy is intact of course)

[@NoahVoxwasHere]

@Victoriusvictoria6 I was thinking, if last names come into play then acronyms would work a lot a lot better. I'm glad to know that the name CVFY/CFVY still would work in that sense!!

[@itspienoon7883]

Honestly just cut out Scarlet and Sage and the rest of Cardin's lackeys bc they're easily the most uninteresting and boring characters of RWBY. Boring designs, boring weapons, can't even remember if they even had a semblance truly. Fox and Yatsuhashi at least have an inkling of potential since they've already got unique designs, cool weapons, different personalities to the main cast and we've already seen them outside of one tournament fight

[@NoahVoxwasHere]

@itspienoon7883 Honestly, agreed. I don't know any of the names of Cardin's OG team, at all, and I don't know the rest of Team SNNN either. They work as interesting background characters, but they have nothing to go off of for...anything else. Lol

[@thomasraines1396]

@@NoahVoxwasHerethe only time Scarlet has a personality is in the books and not only does he do nothing but whine but in order for his personality to actually matter it has to take a massive dump on Sun’s character.

[@TheyCallMeVincenzo]

They should have stayed at Beacon far longer. There. Solved 90% of the writing problem.

[@JonborgVA]

so true

[@writeon2593]

You also could just have volume or area-locked characters. They are important in that area and the main cast of 4 gets to bounce off of them while they're there to solve a minor problem in the grand scheme of things. Then, the 4 leave and those new characters stay in that area. If one of the main characters makes a strong bond with any of them, have them text or video call each other now and then. Maybe one or two new people will want to join either the good or bad side for a longer period of time and outside of their origin area, but have it be something rare and special that gets the crowd hyped up. If they return to that place, a secondary cast is already there and raring to go, and some of them may have even developed or changed in the time since; showing that our main heroes actually make a difference in the world. It is so simple to keep the cast small that it causes me some anger that they didn't take that obvious route.

[@someguycalledgoober155]

I think another issue is the characters aren't really paired off with the enemies well either. You brought up Adam, who's the *main* example of this. Which is one of the reason why I think we should still bring him up because, he is a good mirror to Weiss. Two people, opposites of the racial conflict both molded by toxic people in order to create a worth successor. (On a side note, you can't convince me Sienna wasn't trying to pull a Emperor Palpatine on Adam). Ending up hating the other side of the conflict either more. Both personally damaged by the Schnee Dust Company, with Weiss baring the weight of their sins, and Adam being *made* by said sins. Their color schemes are basically contrasts of one another, the White and Blue of Weiss with a touch of red, vs the Red and Black of Adam with his touch of White. It's almost perfect. Even their weapons: Mytrenaster and Wilt & Blush contrasts how the handle things. Weiss uses a Rapier Revolver, It's made for thrusts and is a smaller hand gun. So she has to think critically and be precise with her attacks. This reflects on her being a critical person of others. Adam uses a Katana Shot Gun, it's made for slashes with it's shape profile making it very easy to do so. Katanas are also heavy for their size so it packs a punch. The shot gun aspect adds a decent range, mainly being good up close due to most pelts having spread out over longer distances (still would hurt a lot though). This reflects on his lashing out personality and aggressive fighting style. Comparisons and Contrasts are the name of the game. Then there's the girl associated to fire, having a crappy mother only to get replace by one that has special powers. Serves as an older sibling and motherly figure to their gem themed ally, they even lost an arm during the battle of Beacon during some red and black dressed person unleashing an ultra move. Now, while this is a broad comparison of Yang and Cinder... The fact they have *this much* in common, especially how their relationship with Raven and Cinder's step mom are negative. The sisterly relations they have with Ruby and Emerald respectfully. Summer is (implied to be) a positive force in Yang's Life while Salem is a "positive" role of Cinder, but mainly using her as a puppet. I look at that, the Maiden stuff, and just think about how these two would have been *perfect* for rivals. Heck, the fact Cinder *fought Yang's mother* adds more onto this too. Just imagine in V3, Yang was asked to be the Fall Maiden, Yang fought Cinder, looses her arm to her only for Ruby to save her last minute with her Silver eyes. Yang's PTSD triggering to shattering a cup due to it sounding like the shattering of Cinder's arrows. Raven passing the Spring Maiden abilities to Yang to give her a boost to face Salem, but more importantly (to her) Cinder. Ruby having a bit more personal stakes in the manner. I'm sorry, but, I want Yang vs Cinder.

[@Prich319]

Yeah, they did Adam dirty. I've always held the opinion that Yang's PTSD should have come back during that fight, and she and Blake would have to run. You could have had them board the airship to escape, Weiss would have gotten a full look at Adam and his branded face, and had a heel realization that this man is a monster that her family created. Now she has an even deeper reason to oppose her father and reform the SDC: the White Fang becomes more than just a bunch of terrorists, but something Jaques Schnee inadvertently radicalized through his attitude towards faunus. You could even have a character arc for Weiss where she accepts her father's sins are not hers, but she is now more motivated than ever to do something about it.

[@VenathTehN3RD]

Same. I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it in plenty of other conversations on the subject, but I still think it's such an absolute crime that there was never so much as a single interaction between Weiss and Adam in the entire series.

[@CertavusGrey5450]

I wonder why they never bothered to bring back Merlot from Grimm eclipse. Could’ve sworn that story was canon. Just imagine how the later fights could’ve gone if Merlot was able to mutant the Nuckelavee, Leviathan, or even the Monstra.

[@javondozier7904]

2:58 That’s one of the biggest missed opportunities in the show. If anyone besides Blake that should’ve been involved with Adam it’s Weiss. These two already have a natural hate for one another, yet they where barely in the same location as one another, and when they were they probably didn’t even know the other was there.

[@threadscore]

That team idea would definitely put an ominous twist on the bullying scene. Like, if that's how he treats one of his teammates in public, how would he treat then during training, or on assignment? Though, I suppose Sun and Penny would put a kibosh to that.

[@HittingBandy]

This video's ending skit gave Cardin far more emotion than his entire existence during the course of v1 to v3. Also the one thing I'd say about CRDL is that, if we are just speaking v1 to 3, they could be seen as elite grunts, not boss characters like Cinder or Adam, but those grunts in video games where there'd be a short cutscene of them doing bad stuff, and are basically just far tougher than regular grunts. Think the Gargantuars from PVZ 1 or a Brotherhood Knight from Fallout 4, both difficult to deal with, but aren't exactly noteworthy to talk about.

[@advanced1998]

I dropped RWBY years ago and It looks like a saved myself a headache. I was so hype when it was first released it had so much potential. RIP Monty

[@thefactory7221]

Oh this is one of my favorite talking points when bringing up RWBY as a "what not to do" example, and its even something I bring up to a fanfic writer friend. >You have lots of characters, great. >Do Something With Them >its hard, but do something meaningful that characterizes them. which opens up all sorts of questions, such as: >whose *really* important here? >why do you exist? >how can I make you interesting? and so on

[@ObsoletePerson]

11:54 - As soon as you described Cardin, I knew exactly where you were going with this. 17:00 - I think this is also an issue with how we've... never really seen Salem do much in the way of fighting. For being an all-powerful immortal sorceress, all she's ever done is fire rainbow Kamehamehas and use glyphs to summon Grimm arms. She is less impressive than a Maiden. We've built her up for eight years and her ONE combat showing against the heroes shows off bugger all about her. If I was Yang, I'd be disappointed that I was defeated by someone who knows like one spell. Also, I'm not sure about bringing back old characters to fill in a new role. In a way, it could make the world small as we see everyone do the same thing and the world feels suspiciously understaffed. The Ace Ops are a neat idea and I don't think we needed Penny, Flynt, and Neon to contribute to that. I think it's alright for Flynt and Neon to be one-off characters that the heroes fight once and then never come up again. They're fun, yeah, but not everyone needs to keep coming back. That said, I do think there's merit to the idea of Penny, Cardin, Velvet, and Sun being a team and cutting off chaff; the Ace Ops are an elite fighting force unique to Atlas while CRDL and SSSN are just more hunter team chaff that we already have so much of. Plus, Ciel being Penny's minder was underexplored; she really should've come back with Penny becoming Mantle's Guardian.

[@thomasraines1396]

What makes Salem even more pathetic is that she didn’t even hurt Jaune and Ren she just ineffectively pushes them against the wall and then jobbs to Hazel of all people.

[@JenamDrag0n]

Neon and Flynt could have been one-off characters (and were clearly meant to be), but the problem is their character design (especially Neon's) was too interesting and for visual storytelling, that implies something important to the audience. That this character is someone we should pay attention to as the audience. As a storyteller, you don't waste your most interesting designs on one-off characters. It's a waste of creative energy. You might be inspired by a really cool design, but if it doesn't fit the needs of the character role you're trying to fill, then you save it for something important later and come up with a new, more muted design that doesn't scream "important character" energy. I had to do that with a story I was writing. I came up with this amazing design and characterization that I adored, but it was for a minor antagonistic character in a low-stakes conversation that would never show up in the story again when what I had created was primary villain material. I fixed that in the editing and moved that major villain character to a different story they fit much better in.

[@thomasraines1396]

@@JenamDrag0noh that sounds interesting.

[@TechBlade9000]

The show does have a legit excuse to feel small though School School is not that big

[@siddhantkamra7779]

The biggest problem with rwby I've realised is that the story they are "trying" to tell is wayyyy too ambitious for the writers and animators. In trying to set up a large fantasy world with all these nations and factions , the MCs get lost in the shuffle.

[@TechBlade9000]

I remember a reddit post detailing how they were so addicted to the plot the characters have to stop acting like themselves for it to work Big example, Cardin being a little bitch in Forever Fall when the black bears show up He went to combat school, he likes hurting things, why is he being a coward here

[@Gdsryrox]

This is one of the reasons why I like Celtics FRWBY series, while it's not 100% perfect I like how he uses the characters and they get to know each other. One of the bits I like the most in this area is when the characters are traveling to mantel instead of just random no name hunters we never see again guarding the train it's actually Cardin and his team who have grown quite a bit since the Vale arc.

[@falconeshield]

I don't like him shipping Velvet with her bully. One of my gripes

[@Gdsryrox]

@@falconeshieldIf you watched the show you see Cardin go through quite a large chain. By the time he shows up in season 6 he is a completely different character that’s grown quite well and honestly is a better way to handle a ‘racist’ character then most of the other AUs I’ve seen where he just beat bested to a pulp or straight up killed.

[@Phoenix_NH]

Could you imagine if they shuffled the story around so Yang and Raven met outside the vault FIRST and then they fought Cinder together? Give more screen time to the big hyped up relationship of the volume and let Yang learn that while Raven isn’t a good mom she’s a great commander and Yang can’t expect everyone to meet the perfect mom-standards set by summer.

[@thomasraines1396]

That would’ve been way better then Yang spending way to long saying essentially “you suck” and putting Raven down.

[@dspace4514]

Something that scares me about Volume 10, besides the time we're going have to wait, is that we're going to have more characters, from teams we know like SSSN or CFVY, but we also are going to meet Shade's student body,. If they decide to also bring back Team NDGO, thats at least 13 more characters to the roster. Why not split the group up and have them go back to Beacon and re conquer it?

[@keve5534]

Not to mention the teachers and headmaster. There are going to be a lot more characters and it'll be extra weird because you have new cast plus most of the atlas cast returning.

[@Ardent_Sylph]

A missed opportunity for me was Weiss and Ilia back between volumes 5 and 6. I don't know how long they stayed at Mistral, but Blake at some point would have introduced her team to her family and friends.

[@Birthday888]

"Missed Opportunities" is basically the title of Volumes 4-6. They screwed over the Mistral arc so badly.

[@neptunnae]

God sometimes I think about things RT could have done and get sad about that never happening But sun Cardin penny and velvet??? GOD that’s such a fun idea I’m so sad that never happened

[@JayBeePixels]

3:29 I had to pause part way into the RWBY x Justice League part two movie because the girls suddenly acted like they knew everything about Watts, when I remembered this point you made. I literally went "How do ANY of you know anything about him? Ironwood knew. You four didn't even meet him face-to-face! Only Weiss got a brief glimpse of him on a camera recording."

[@ohmahrie]

I had no idea that WEISS’ FAMILY branded Adam because they never once touch up on that and they never speak ever, that’s horrible how did you drop that ball 😭

[@BishopTDE]

I think it was Miles who mentioned that he wishes they had called the show Remnants instead. Further pointing out that they don't want to focus on RWBY as much. Or explore other characters and stories.

[@kulamritbamrah4880]

There's no reason they can't do that anyway and still keep the same title. There are lots of properties that keep titles that aren't relevant anymore. Honestly, I think CRWBY just don't care much for the show anymore. It feels like they're burned out.

[@BishopTDE]

@@kulamritbamrah4880 the thing is they still need to come and finish the series in a satisfying way otherwise any spin offs will be ignored by a huge swoff of the fanbase.

[@ProperNeko]

Haha, that's what I thought! The fact the writers are investing so much effort into its world building clearly tells they want to see RWBY develop into the same everlasting universe as Star Wars, whilst forgetting why people are watching the first trailers (Red, White, etc.) in the first place.

[@mauriceisaac3646]

That's such a lame title, though. It's too derivative. "RWBY" is much more unique. If they feel they couldn't live up to that title, that's on them.

[@BishopTDE]

@@mauriceisaac3646 I think Miles just likes his "OC insert do not steal" more than Monty's characters. And The rest of CRWBY is more interested in world building than the main characters themselves

[@rexlumontad5644]

So many new characters, little they were used and forgotten to obscurity once their time is up as if they do not exist.

[@storms_thereaper]

I’m a simple man. I see Sun I click video. I miss him so much!

[@thomashooper2451]

I know I'm three months late to this party, but this video is fantastic. Team Penny/Cardin/Velvet/Sun as parallels to Team RWBY is such a great way to do a compare/contrast piece while keeping down on the cast bloat. Sun is the new team's Yang and a perfect opposite to Blake as a sunny, upbeat Faunus while she's brooding and withdrawn. Penny is the Ruby, but she really should have played off of Blake more as a daddy's girl struggling to find her own place in the world. And so on and so forth. The alternate Ace-Ops lineup is fantastic, too. Ciel is such a blank slate that she slots into Harriet's place perfectly. Let her be the super-speedy girl and have her breakdown be over losing Penny all over again when she thought she had her friend back. Instead of, you know, Harriet flipping out and deciding to commit war crimes over a guy we've never met (Tortuga) and a guy we just recently met (Clover). I like the cut of your jib.

[@Fenix_Hunter]

After rewatching the first 3 volumes, i can say that Ruby and Pyrrha basically don't know eachother. In volume 1 they only talk in the forever fall forest,and only exchange like two lines each In volume 2 the most they do is be in the same room at the same time. In volume 3 they interact the most, with three scenes, in 2 of which they only say 2 things to eachother (the second time they get interrupted by Jaune), and in the last one they say nothing to eachother and Pyrrha dies

[@thomasraines1396]

They had no relationship.

[@MistyLunaLotus]

Honestly? The problem for me is I've grown to resent the MAIN team because I found the side characters more interesting, Pyrrha's storyline alone is more interesting than ANYTHING Yang has ACTUALLY brought to the table

[@yersonpanqueba9263]

I remember one of the methods to avoid have a titanic cast, which 80% is useless, is the rule "One and two". In summary, the cast is divided in some groups, with a main character and two o three minor character. So, the plot is developed by these groups, little by little, making easier to tell the history by differents, peculiars perspectives. One example of this method is the seasons 4, 5 and 6 of TWD. In TWD there was a big cast (Like 12 characters), but they used it clever, weaving a plot where they have to reunited and defend their safe zone. A shame that it worked until it didn't work...

[@MST545]

Honestly Salem alone could handle everything. If you think about it, you have an immortal with the ability to mass produce Grimm in mass, and even make Elite Grimm. Just cause the characters can steamroll enemies don't mean they can do it forever, they'll eventually get tired and get swarmed. She's literally the definition of a cheat code if the writers left her alone. And Salem herself probably has a ton of magic or something that we don't know about, lifetimes alone leave you plenty of time to learn and master stuff, not just hold a grudge against the gods and the world

[@thomasraines1396]

Imagine if she were actually smart and utilized her Grimm making abilities, imagine her army were lead by an entire group of Hounds, it would basically be multiple General RAAM from Gears of War. Imagine the Eldritch Horrors she could make if she simply were more imaginative.

[@VenathTehN3RD]

Yet another reason why I'm always skeptical when they claim something was "planned from the start." The sheer number of inconsistencies and decisions that just plain don't make much sense don't quite line up with that claim. Well, unless by "it was planned from the start" they just mean "We got together with Monty and sketched out a vague concept on a piece of scrap paper, but didn't do anything to develop it and just kind of tossed it in a drawer somewhere until we needed to introduce it into the narrative, and didn't bother adding or changing anything to that concept despite all the changes that have happened in the series since then."

[@thomasraines1396]

@@VenathTehN3RD yeah I have little to any belief that anything in RWBY was planned.

[@VenathTehN3RD]

@@thomasraines1396 To be fair, I do think there was SOME degree of planning early on. They've said on multiple occasions (even in the first few volume commentaries IIRC) that Monty came up with outlines for quite a bit. And really, that's what a LOT of these things have felt like - an outline that they've had for a while and then rushed to fill out with more detail as a deadline was looming. I feel like they "planned" things at the beginning of the series in the sense that they did some brainstorming to come up with very general concepts, and the problem is that they either didn't plan any real detail about them prior to when they needed to implement them and/or didn't take as much time as they probably should have to rework things to better mesh with new ideas they came up with and introduced after those initial plans were made (like the Maidens or Relics). For instance, since we're already on the subject, when they say that they had Salem planned as a major villain I can believe that they actually had a Grimm-controlling villain named Salem planned, and possibly even that she and Ozma were lovers from back in an ancient society that predates modern civilization. I just don't buy that they had many of the actual details - whether it's her specific background, relationships, actions, or various powers - planned out until it was getting close to the time that she was actually supposed to be on screen.

[@thomasraines1396]

@@VenathTehN3RD oh interesting.

[@jonnjones8263]

This video just made me realize why the huge cast of One Piece is so entertaining to me. Characters don't just show up and disappear. They always come back and have some unique role to play in the story. Characters who Luffy previously had life or death battles with sometimes com back and they end up teaming up with him and having some cool banter along the way. Like several characters who we all thought were gonna be one-off joke villains that get defeated by Luffy ultimately end up coming back hundreds of chapters later to team up with him in prison and they have some hilarious interactions. One antagonist who Luffy absolutely hated and hated him in return actually comes back in a later arc and becomes one of Luffy's driving motivations for defeating the villain of that arc. And so on and so forth. It leaves you wondering whose gonna come back next and what role they'll have to play when they do? An excellent thing to keep in mind when writing huge casts.

[@confusedcabal342]

Someone throw the critter in jail because they have some criminally good ideas!!

[@phoenix05892]

I completely forgot about the Penny's teammate! Could you imagine her perspective when she saw Penny cut in half/finding out she's a robot? Better yet, imagine Sun, Velvet, and Cardin seeing it and reacting to her "death" rather than only Ruby?

[@BeetleTricks411]

This is why I worry about Volume 10, because personal storylines that have only gotten setup are Weiss, Jaune, Ruby and Oscar. If they want to use a secondary like Velvet, they can use her taking pictures to connect to Ruby’s journey and her los of innocence

[@carbodude5414]

The more useless side characters they can introduce, the more excuses they can keep building to avoid actually developing Team RWBY

[@prettyspectrum6371]

Your idea of putting characters that the show actually use, replacing the dead weight was a very good idea. I LOVED, the interactions. As a writer you need to show whats important, even in adaptations. A book can have 12 fights but in a movie you can only show 2, so you need to show the most IMPORTANT ones- that help the narrative to not make it stop. And this also goes to characters, they need a purpose, and purposes can change. Thats why some characters can start one way and change and never leave. Such as Zuko in Avatar, Tom in stvfoe, Bismuth in steven universe

[@MegaArcon]

Your idea for the "new ace ops" was inspired. Now I can't help but wonder why they DIDN'T do that! That would have been soooooo good.

[@DocMicrowave]

Ironwood was killed off with out ever knowing the whole story about Salem, Oz or the nature of the world in general. He was never allowed full disclosure on what he was fighting against. Seems they needed him (and by extension is army) moved to the villian side to bring up the numbers. By any means necessary. Just throwing it out there.

[@shadowclaw7210]

Honestly by making Neon n Flynt ace ops actually cool idea. Because that character we know who once were trouble for them. Specifically to Yang n Weiss. Seeing them again, as in position as Special Ops. Means they grown, aka got stronger. They would been new benchmarks. Like a goal our heroes should strife for, then when the disagreement of fighting for mantle or flee gets there. It feels heavier. We could have Ciel vs Ruby, Winter vs Weiss, then Flynt n Neon vs Yang n Blake. (To make FN vs Bmblb make sense, lets say Flynt n Neon are dating). Then team Penny, Cardin, Velvet n Sun sounds amazing. They feel like awesome addition. Bunch of really diverse group in term of personality. It maybe be shock. But people we’re seeing Cardin as something of wasted potential. Like Id imagine him starting to work with team full on non-humans would actually change him. Then imagine in v-3 as Cardin is more than just some bully boy. But man who improved over his short comings. Then imagine him watching his team leader die. Team getting disbanded (I guess that both Velvet n Sun go with Blake because faunus I guess). I could see his character maybe joining with RNJR. Because he wants to know, who hurt his team. I also can see him bonding with Ruby n JNR because. Like Ruby they both lost team. Like JNR their friends have died. Then after their reunion in Heaven. It probably add so much joy n drama. Because maybe Cardin lil distant. He could talk about this with Yang. Then when we get to Atlas. Oh my gosh. So much crying n laughter. Man team PCVS sounds like fun idea. If executed well.

[@hunterfay9817]

At this point, it seems pretty obvious that the writers just want to keep throwing ideas in without developing them, thinking that just creating a pile of flashy things will make up for lack of creativity. Explains why things like dust were quickly forgotten about early on, since exploring ideas and using them wisely clearly doesn’t mean much compared to trying out new ones that they use for barely a season

[@littlekuribohimposte]

One show that I feel did cast growth super wellis Jojo's Bizarre adventure Part 4. There are about 30 Stand Users in Morioh, and most served as one-offs and antagonists. So the show would always find time to devote a good chunck of the episode to these Stand Users. Not too long, about 7 minutes uness they were big like RHCP or Kira. But like The Lock's and Cinderella's users, they got a little time to flesh out who they are, what they're doing, and why they're doing it. We don't need a ton of information, but we get to learn about these people.

[@abbycollins4820]

Okay I have a list of potential team names (from a generator): PSSC (Pistachio) PSSC (Prismatic) PCSS (Picasso) PCSS (Precious) PCSS (Princess) PSSC (Lipstick) SSPC (Space) CPSS (Cypress) PSSC (Plastic) CSSP (Crisp) PSCS (Pieces) PCSW (Purple Cactus Flower [yep, this is a real color]) PCWS / PCWV (Space Wolves Grey [also a real color]) PCSS (Pine Cone Pass) PCSS (Pale Cherry Blossom) Personally I’m a fan of PCSS (Picasso), it just sounds cool.

[@spacerift9930]

Everything about why RWBY has felt very stagnant and uninspired definitely has to come from the fact our main characters are suppose to be the focus and we follow being Ruby, Yang, Weiss and Blake throughout the show. and yet here we are always following the new thing we have to follow for one volume, and RWBY are left behind to B plot and miss out on all the important protagonist storyline. This video was a complete magnum opus of everything why RWBY has lost it's charm and became boring, I am glad I moved on with this series and finally found the evidence on why RWBY fell from grace.

[@Drax69420]

No wonder certain parts of the latest season were praised. Team RWBY, the girls the show is named after, got to be the main characters for once, and Ruby, the intended protagonist who's name is also the show, got to be a protagonist for once. I'm honestly interested to see how this show is gonna limp over the finish line if it even gets far enough for a final season. I doubt no matter what happens, it'll be underwhelming character-wise due to all of the issues here. So it's either gonna be one big disappointing mess or rather, a slightly satisfying mess.

[@josesosa3337]

"Too many characters" is a good example of why good world building is important. The world needs to be "busy" and sell the feeling that things are haappening without the main characters. If you don't want characters to die to thin out the cast, just say they're busy doing x or y and leave space for characters to return, make last minute saves, or just don't come back for production reasons or story reasons.

[@kindasomeviews]

It also makes it hard to remember so many characters' names. Or remember them period. I can't tell you how many characters I saw in this vid that I just got reminded of who're from season 1, but forgot about them otherwise. This problem is mostly two folded cuz most of the cast have the same body type, making them even more forgettable

[@coolwoman698]

12:12 this is so much better than what we got, this team RWBY but with bunny girls and cyborgs 10/10 would watch

[@Majin_Koolaid]

Your idea to group up all the season 1 side characters sounds kinda sweet.

[@seant1326]

Cast too large? Better bring in Cosmically-powered Starscream to trim it down.

[@izaacidlartist164]

can you imagine if robyn was in the ace ops but still steal atlas material for mantle ? would have been a interresting dynamic, right ?

[@ayal92]

Or is she was working for Salem all along

[@Birthday888]

@@ayal92 Nah. You have Watts for that. They needed to choose a direction for Robyn and stick with it. She's either the heroic vigilante/outlaw who works outside the system to do what she feels is right, or she's the face of Mantle trying to work within the system to enact change. They tried to do both, for whatever reason, and it just comes across as her being a hypocrite. It's so stupid as well, because they could've just split those two roles between her and Marigold. Have them be old flames or uneasy allies.

[@thomasraines1396]

@@ayal92I would’ve really enjoyed her being a plant.

[@ProperNeko]

11:40 I love this part, haha! It just proves that teams are either extensions of their team leader or just happen to be variants of Team RWBY. Even Team CVFY is like a third draft of Team RWBY. Funny thing is that, as pointed by members of the fandom, Coco has the same 3D model base as Ruby. Even her head is shaped like hers! This is one of the strongest videos you have made on this channel, which tackles the character bloat issue with very good points, as well as some fun discoveries. Never thought Penny, Sun, Velvet and Cardin would actually assemble a team. Good work! What I may add though is the character roster of RWBY seem to be confused between the references of anime and other animated shows as mentioned by its creators and writers. It struggled to decide whether it should follow Bleach, where it focuses on each person in a team of heroes and their deep personal problems, or follow Soul Eater, where it focuses more on team leaders as important individuals, with their team partners serving as their backing crews. It's clearly seen at the very beginning where the show was supposed to focus on the main cast of girls (i.e. RWBY) and how they discover each other, but instead it often spends more time on leaders (and maidens?) including Ruby and Jaune than the former's mates, despite smaller arcs shown for Weiss and Blake during the first volume. Now the problem had been so embedded into the future volumes that if you were to elimate Weiss and Blake from the Atlas arc, it would most likely not affect the story by a significant amount, despite their moments in V7 and V9. It baffles me because Avatar TLA and Cowboy Bebop (favourites of Miles) works better as shows partially because each one of them focuses on a single team of heroes and gives each one of them more time to develop into fully fledged characters, even as far as developing with their partners, but instead of following their character cast stuctures, RWBY follows more closely to the Game of Thrones, where it covers as many regions of the world as possible whilst trying to juggle between casts of characters in each one, not to mention some characters never had a chance to interact with every important character in the show. This is why Volume 10 is going to be a mammoth challenge for the writers, because it's likely to throw loads of characters from each kingdom into Vacuo, I mean 'Before the Dawn' has already mentioned lots of characters who moved from Beacon after the events of V3 finale.

[@ProperNeko]

I read and rewatched again and noticed more about the importance of character interactions. It just vidicates that it's better for Ruby to find one of her friends at the time during volume 9 instead of finding them all in its first episode. Like, for example, Ruby could have found only Blake on the beach, they both discover Yang fighting with a racoon in the town, and all of them find Weiss as a prisoner during a chess game. Not only it raises more stakes, but it gives more time for Ruby to interact with every single member of her team before getting fully reunited. I hope that makes sense.

[@thomasraines1396]

I’m trying to avoid that with my characters for my stories.

[@BestBetterBestest]

Holy shit it really is just Tyrian, Cinder, and Mercury huh

[@awesomex1031]

Not sure how common this was, but I think it says something how people were trying to predict the end of Volume 9, some thought that one or more of the main protags were gonna stay behind.

[@mememaster6748]

2:33 Those are great arguments in fact it would’ve changed a lot but of course bumblebee needed to happen which pretty much ruined the idea that Weiss could see what happened to Adams face 11:18 that would definitely make a better team 11:41 and you were right that is literally team Rwby in a nutshell

[@Dragiare]

I need that ACE Ops team. It would be so interesting in retrospect if they took down team RWBY at Atlas, despite the loss during the tournament. It would show so much growth and add another layer to Rin yelling at Yang. Imagine him yelling about how they don't know what they're doing but the audience isn't just thinking about that moment but also that two members of FUNKY that Yang and Weiss beat are higher ranked than them. It could create a question that would have fun to explore. Who else from their school days has surpassed them in their careers?

[@pqche8161]

Your edits at the end convinced me on the Penny Cardin Velvet Sun team like ACTUALLY. I want more. The only argument against it is that Penny and Sun come from different schools, but they don't need to anyways. (Because Penny could be made in Atlas but sent to Beacon as a student, and Sun's background has not mattered ONCE)

[@evrint]

Ending dubs were stellar.