Is Linux Still Too Hard to Use?

[@TheLinuxCast]

Help support hosting costs for the podcast patreon.com/thelinuxcast [time stamps] 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:55 Our Week in FOSS 00:01:00 Drew's Week in FOSS 00:02:52 Nate's Week in FOSS 00:03:21 Matt's Week in FOSS 00:08:15 Is Linux Too Hard? 00:57:14 Nuggies of the Week 00:58:01 Drew's Nuggie 00:58:59 Nate's Nuggie 00:59:56 Matt's Nuggie 01:01:19 Contact Info and Goodbyes

[@skorne7682]

I'm someone who used Windows most my life, I switched to Linux, but because my background is programming, I'm pretty tech literate. The problem with Linux is that it's very simple and plug and play until it isn't. Using it for web browsing, document editing, media consumption is as trivial as it is on Windows. It's when you do something slightly outside the basic use cases the problems come up. A good example is sharing a folder on the network. This is right click and share folder on Windows. On linux you have to install samba, setup a samba user, make sure the samba service is started, make sure you opened the right ports in the firewall and then maybe it works if your distro feels like it. On something like Fedora you probably have to mess with SELinux too. All this involves typing a bunch of commands and possibly editing some config files. No basic computer user should ever have to do all that just to share a file. So the answer is yes, it is still too hard to use.

[@EugeniaLoli]

Spot on! This is exactly the issue. Same for hardware support: it works with most common hardware, but the moment you want a bit more exotic stuff, you're out of luck.

[@quademasters249]

My take as well. More often than not googling comes up with no solutions or really old solutions that are no longer relevant. For basic usage, it's rock solid. My daughter has been using it for years on her PC. She doesn't even know it's Linux.

[@anti_globalista]

"and then maybe it works if your distro feels like it." 😂😂

[@JonLikesStats]

Valid point, but it is a double-edged sword. My favorite part of Linux is minimalism. Plus the security implications of Samba. Maybe I'm part of the problem lol.

[@wartlme]

My 12-year-old daughter wants to use Linux. She saw Ubuntu Linux on the Minecraft server download page and thought it looked cool. I told her I would set up her desktop computer with Linux after getting her a new one. Her old computer has Windows 10 and cannot be upgraded to 11. She would be happy to play Minecraft and Roblox. We can easily do that. Linux is a great way to give computers extra supported life after Windows 10 sails into unsupported. After October 2025, your channel will get more viewers. You should do some videos regarding how to install Linux after Windows 10.

[@DaveN-ft8wr]

Like your channel! Brand new to Linux as of a couple weeks ago. Had no real problem loading Mint 22 onto both my machines. One is set up as a dual boot (2 drives) and all works well. My biggest problem is loading certain software. I use JRiver Media Center for all my music and with Win it is really a 1 or 2 click install. With Linux, I can't seem to get there. The command line freezes, and going to their forum they talk about debug??? and such and that goes right over my head. This is why I duel boot, so I can listen to music. That and once in a great while I use Turbocad which has no Linux version. Anyway the most difficult adjustment has been software install, and only with certain ones. Everything else has been pretty smooth. I never thought Linux would figure out my MiniDSP streamer because it was a nightmare to set up in Windows, but it did it automatically! My jaw dropped on that one. All and all I know I am not going back to Win. Having too much fun with Mint 22... :)

[@bcsr4ever]

Windows is too hard to use for a lot of people...

[@ArturdeSousaRocha]

This. I occasionally help people with their computer issues. I've met people who don't know how to forward an email. Your trivial use case is someone else's arcane knowledge.

[@sharkuel]

@@ArturdeSousaRocha Yep, Windows has its fair share of complexities, but people are used to it. Specially when you have to fiddle with the registry or with CMD to do specific things. I feel Powershell/CMD is a fairly more complex tool than the comand line in Linux, for example. The easiest system to work with is actually MacOS. Installing a app there is as simple as dragging and dropping, for example. But it feels weird to Windows users to jumb into Mac because of the workflow. GNOME tries to cater to that crowd, as it has a similar workflow as well, but at this point, Windows 11 is as complicated to use as ZorinOS or Linux Mint.

[@cubedmelons876]

Yeah, most people probably wouldn't be able to handle a fresh Windows install. People only find Windows easy because it's preinstalled on their PC.

[@spooky-30000]

@@sharkuel The Mint set up from first install is actually far better than new Windows because Mint doesn't hassle you for a wifi connection or an account with some corporation. You can take a usb of Mint and install it anywhere in the world on most hardware.

[@TheTastefulThickness]

My mother works on her PC every day. For a living. She doesn't know how to unzip files nor download a media player if the default doesn't have the correct codec for file playback. She ended up paying a dollar on the Microsoft store to play the file because it prompted her to do so.

[@MegaLokopo]

Buy a new laptop for windows 11 because having that compatibility is nice, but don't throw your old one away. Install linux mint on the old one, or find someone who you know who uses linux, and do whatever they say. The one thing that makes having linux on my main desktop %1000 easier, is having windows 11 on a laptop. I don't have to try to make adobe products work on linux, I get the best of both worlds.

[@JonLikesStats]

On my first attempt at Linux, I did the classics: i tried dual boot and lost everything, then i struggled with Nvidia drivers until i just gave up and went back to Windows. Took me two years to try again.

[@Technopath47]

The irony is I had a couple friends ask me for help to switch to Linux, one was an artist and another a gamer, and then a few misc people. So, as a result, I decided to write a post for my author blog that I could sent to people about this. The post was aimed at normies with very basic technical skill (ie, a gamer or an artist). The post ended up kinda longer than I expected (about 20k words) and I realized I accidentally wrote a short book. So, instead of publishing as a blog post I literally reached back out to the artist (who also is my critique partner for writing) and teamed up with her to make this an actual book that's gonna be under CC BY-SA 4.0 licensing when done. I literally just re-plotted out the blog post into a book flow and it's going to be styled as a short, easy guide book. When it's done it'll be released for free digitally and cheap as we can get for the print version. Does this delay me releasing my novels? Yes. Did I somehow manage to actually write an entire book when I should be editing my existing ones? Yes. Is this a fun project that might be useful for exactly this situation? Also yes. lol

[@czos9239]

It’s just a different kind of noob unfriendliness. (Recovery partition fix, anyone?) If you want to beat the establishment, you have to be noticeably better in most things that obvious to said group. Or have the budget to force things.

[@pyepye-io4vu]

Being better does not help, it's the second thing. Windows is a monopoly because it's a monopoly. It's all about money and business.

[@TSS-nq2ul]

Yeah, let’s stop pretending Windows is objectively better than Linux or MacOS, because it’s not. Windows thrives because it’s parent is a fine monopoly business, but nothing more than that.

[@SevereMkII]

The real issue with Linux difficulty for newcomers is the fact that developers for most distro seem to take pride in making their distro more difficult to use as some sort of status symbol. Even for supposedly new user-friendly distributions, there’s certain things that you just need to dig into the command line for that you really shouldn’t have to. It would not take a developer more than a few evenings to come up with a graphical user interface for things like setting up a raid. I guarantee you if somebody over at Ubuntu decided one day to make the entire operating system in every user setting that an average user needs available in a GUI you’d see adoption start to rise. The Linux operating system themselves aren’t difficult to use. They’re just needlessly convoluted.

[@MegaLokopo]

Windows has god mode folders, I'm surprised as far as I can tell linux doesn't have something similar yet.

[@jedipadawan7023]

KDE. So many settings in GUI people complain it's too many.

[@LordKaladar]

@@jedipadawan7023 As a predominately Windows-centric user, family tech supporter, sysadmin for work- I have gravitated to KDE for that reason. It IS a lot of options, but being in a Windows-like control panel is a boon. I wish there was a little bit of info explaining what and where some of those options affected.

[@jedipadawan7023]

@@LordKaladar ​ @LordKaladar I am not sure quite what you mean here. KDE does allow for complete cnofig via GUI - moreso than Windows. Fonting hinting and compositing for a start. And at least everything is in 'system settings' while Windows settings are now scattered... something Microsoft is not trying to fix. Trouble is explanations will be lost on normies anyway. I think KDE does better than Windows for config by a long way. Explanations... it's all on the KDE w-i-k-i.

[@TheTastefulThickness]

Needlessly convoluted is the very definition of difficulty

[@EasyGameEh]

the hardest part is getting help online, because online communities are as fragmented as the linux space itself, which is bad considering how small it (the community overall) is in the first place. there're many huge windows based tech forums in any language so i can go to any of them and get relevant help on any topic, be that broken mbr, drivers, bugs, whatever, even hardware and overclocking related. on linux do i go to the kde forum which is almost dead? or to my distro's forum which is small too? and if i need to fix my mother's installation which is on a different distro do i create another useless account on another useless site? or do i google random stuff and pray the solution is not ubuntu specific?

[@guidon.5413]

Installing a Linux distro is easy, at least as long as the hardware is fully supported (mine isn't). But even that comes with its own difficulties: the fragmentation of the Linux world is a serious problem for "normal people". Which distribution, which desktop environment? Window Manager? Simple questions on other systems that have obvious solutions have subpar offerings that will work for a nerd but are a total usability nightmare for others are the norm. Plus, whenever it gets to more difficult hardware, it's a frigging nightmare even for people with IT background (I've been in the industry for three decades) IF they have not only a need to make it work for a usecase but also taste and a desire for consistency.

[@pyepye-io4vu]

"Normal people" shouldn't use Linux. I'm not saying this as an "elitist gatekeeper" or whatever. I'm saying it genuinely. Linux is just not good for normal people, they will be frustrated, angry and upset. They will waste hours, days, weeks. They should remain in the normal world. Of course, they could also stop being normal and become a nerd / tech person... but some people get angry and offended at that suggestion.

[@guidon.5413]

@@pyepye-io4vu That was exactly my point and it was the question in this video. So, what's your point? Linux is basically a garbage pile full of great components that don't well together.

[@kinomotosakura9550]

I last used Linux 12 years ago, and before that, I first started on Ubuntu 7.10. I've been a Windows user most of my life, but decided to make the switch to Fedora 41 after not wanting to be dependent on Microsoft anymore. The differences between Linux now and a decade ago is night and day. It has become a lot more user friendly. Right now, I don't think I'm going back.

[@joshgibson3618]

Wasn’t there something called an install festival with linux years ago?

[@xgui4-studios]

what is mate laptop doing in the background ???

[@Rafael-Morais]

@@xgui4-studios It's "cmatrix", an application that makes it rain code in the terminal (similar to the classic effect from the movie Matrix). It's just cosmetic stuff, but it's cool for ambience :)

[@TechnoMinded-qp5in]

This is my honest opinion about Linux I think it's gotten a lot easier and modern society has just gotten a lot more stupid over the years only issue I got with Linux is lack of software support gaming is getting better and I can assure you that you will love using Steam on Linux more than Windows but if you want it for VR Support you're just out of luck and will have to game the old fashioned way unless you use SteamVR or ALVR have fun getting Meta Quest to work on Linux because Mark Zuckerberg REFUSES to support it which is way past due to complete Linux.

[@c0wg0d]

I would like to switch to Linux, but I use too many apps that are on Windows only, and dual booting is painful. I saw Chris Titus make a video where he had Windows in a VM that opened with a quick key combo, which would be great, but if I still have to use Windows anyway, why bother with two different OSes at all? I'm really scared about the direction Microsoft is taking Windows, but I can't switch. It's really frustrating.

[@pyepye-io4vu]

Just stay on Windows. Nothing wrong with that.

[@quademasters249]

I'm not ready to switch but I did experiment with a spare computer. Linux on the machine with Win10 or 11 in a VM. I was able to run all the windows software I wanted in the VM while still being able to control everything the way Linux allows. I'm still on Win10. I don't feel compelled to switch over but my tests showed I can switch over any time I need to. Windows has become more hostile to users who just want a local install with little surveillance from Microsoft. The benefit of Windows in a VM is you can control what it can do. You don't have to let it onto the internet at all or only long enough to update then lock it down again.

[@s.anonyme6855]

Linux people talk about Linux as if Linux was a similar user experience comparable to Windows or Applie. But what are we talking about here? Gnome? KDE? Cinnamon or some Tiled WM? Pretty sure most of the people who have spent 1 year using Ubuntu and Gnome won't be able to help someone asking questions about how to install an application on Opensuse KDE.

[@pyepye-io4vu]

Yep. That's why I say "I use Mint" and not "I use Linux".

[@Tired_Night_Owl_in_the_Woods]

The only thing my ex was actually userful was teaching me how to install an operating system: how to get to boot, where to change the order of devices, what is liveCD, where to find pirated windows isos😅 etc.

[@ToxicBro-q8u]

How do you managed a fleet of Linux Desktops? In Windows we can use Group Policies?

[@michaelsemple3580]

Ansible playbook, perhaps?

[@theneekofficial8829]

NixOS would be my go to.

[@xgui4-studios]

i use fedora btw with nvidia and secure boot btw

[@Mac-sz9hg]

Will you do a follow up video on floorp? they have closed souced their main features now. I think zen browser and even mozilla took some of their stuff but it was opensource but was funny to me that many floorp features now will come to main firefox. Really wanted floorp to replace vivaldi for me since it is only 95% opensource but now floorp is the same.

[@danjuroff]

It seems to me that the thing that makes Linux hard to use is that when someone says, "Linux," he isn't talking about the kernel; he's referring to a distro and there are hundreds of them. Because there are hundreds of them, they reside on hundreds of websites; they have unfamiliar names that often don't make sense; they use different installers; use different file managers; use different software respositories; use different desktop environments; are built on different versions of the kernel so they don't support the same hardware out of the box; have communities that vary widely in their knowledge and in their friendliness to new users; and blah blah blah. And if all that isn't enough, some people in the Linux community like it when Linux is hard to use and would love to keep it that way. And finally, not saying you guys do this, but people shouldn't be made to feel stupid because they actually like Windows or MacOS. There are those in the Linux community who do exactly that, and it is that toxicity that can turn off prospective new users. Just sayin'. Let's face it, half the fun of using Linux distros is getting to try out everyone's handiwork, experiencing all the new features and tools, witness and participate in the progress of development, and so on. It's a lot of fun, but it's not for everyone. And if we somehow become a single, unified entity, like Windows or MacOS, we will be a sad lot indeed.

[@c0wg0d]

I feel like if all the really smart people that make all these Linux distros banded together to make one "ultimate, best" Linux distro, with one set of documentation, one set of supported hardware, etc., it might catch on. I know Linux is great because of all these different distros and different ways to do the same thing, but that is also its Achilles heel.

[@jedipadawan7023]

@@c0wg0d There are too many CPUs. AMD or Intel (or ARM?) N100? i7? i9, Ryzen 3 or 5 or 9, what about GPU? What size SSD? The fact is that everyone faces choices in all sorts of things including cars and breakfast cereals. FOr all other things we go with the words of expert friends- and why more techies need to switch to Linux before normies. It is, however, a distortion of normal markets that Windows dominates so completely and led to the belief in computing that choice is bad and "there can be only one." The problem is not choice itself, it's the public being led to believe choice is bad and they should not have to make choices when they make such calls every single day. Also, one single distro would make a target Microsoft could then crush as they did every other system.

[@c0wg0d]

@@jedipadawan7023 I'm not saying choice is bad, it's good--I'm just saying choice is what is hurting widespread Linux adoption. Yes there are many car manufacturers, but they all drive the same. Not so with Linux.

[@jedipadawan7023]

But what I am saying is that normies get guided by techies. That's how it works. Techies have to switch to guide the newbies. And choosing a dustro is not so hard especially when you can try first. Plus, Average Joe just uses Google now anyway. If they can boot an OS and run 'Google' and youtube, I swear, most are happy. The problem is that Average Joe is constantly being scaredd off Linux by tales of the terminal and how hard Linux is and it is just not so.

[@pyepye-io4vu]

Turning people off is a good thing. Otherwise Linux will turn into the next Windows. Viruses, malware, spying, proprietary stuff, corporations... So, please stay away.

[@topherfungus8424]

Hi Matt, My Aunt Lucy just absolutely loves your content!

[@NreKonkoro-vt2fo]

It worked on my Elitebook, like a charm (EndeavourOS). Now I'm just cranky about using a Systemd distro.

[@bjre.wa.8681]

Go into the file format/partition format. I work with people that work from home with all brands of OS's on notebooks/desktop machines. We use flash drive probably way more than we should, but mainly because of large file sizes. We sometime have to snail mail the flash drive across the country to get large files moved. So I need to be able to move a files From Linux To Windows and visa versa using a flash drive. Just some good basics here. If I give some files to someone at work on a flash drive, I want them to be able bring them up with whatever OS they have. I've read the manual and you get fat32 classic (older?) with smaller capacity and then the ext4 and won't read on the windows system?

[@ghz24]

To read large thumbdrives in linux you hsve to install exfat. Sudo apt-get install exfat-fuse should solve the large drive compatible issue.

[@gruman1987]

its kinda funny how linux veterans talk about people and why they dont switch you should bring windows users and talk to them why they dont switch ;) but awesome podcast

[@GrumpiestDonut]

You need to add a new user to your podcast to get their view.

[@bobpeters61]

First that long bit about different computers having different "secret handshakes" to get the boot menu to install Linux. Then that awesome stickshift metaphor for the Windows to Linux initial learning curve. Thank you, Matt!! 💔 💔 💔 Also, thanks for the point of documentation being written by developers who CAN'T write it for noobs. You hear nothing but hype about the Arch Wiki and how great and useful it is. But let someone who's only used Debian-based distros in Linux try and look up how to do something simple in that thing. Straight off on a tangaent that leaves the impression, right or wrong, that one would have to educate themselves halfway to the level of a developer to devine the simple answer they seek from it. I had to watch a You Tube "tutorial" video to get past those points of the Arch Installation Guide and learn to install Arch the "Arch Way," AKA the "hard way." Then when I put it on an older laptop in which I had to use an MBR-BIOS install instead, I had to watch two more of them to get that down.

[@michaelsemple3580]

The hardest thing I find with Linux is spending less time learning new stuff. Never interested me on Windows or proprietary software (with the exception of Excel)…

[@iopqu]

NixOS already has a dedicated recovery tool, it shows you all the versions when you boot! You never have to recover your system, unless your SSD is actually dead or you broke your boot loader

[@Skelterbane69]

Just wish it didn't use systemd, otherwise I'd try it

[@NreKonkoro-vt2fo]

@@Skelterbane69 GNU Guix it is then!

[@Skelterbane69]

@BrokenConfig Funny, since I use an init that is newer than systemd and I also use wayland. I don't like systemd and therefore you jump on me like I'm a criminal. Typical.

[@RonaldMarillier]

I went back to windows when I first tried linux many many years ago. My system comprised of many .exe files that I have saved. Also on Window's a second hard drive comprised of only portable apps. Because I reloaded Windows very often, reinstalling all those apps were too cumbersome. This was at a time when unattended installation of apps did not exist. I was only years later I moved to linux, as at the time whenever I needed an app, It required compiling and all sorts of shenanigans. I am using linux now for 7 years + now and the landscape has changed drastically. First linux OS I tried was Mandriva linux for a while. At the time, the learning curve was unbearable.. Now however, you don't need to care about package managers or even much about the terminal. Life is good on linux now.

[@grahamcampbell7424]

I'm really trying. I like Linux, I think I landed on KDE Plasma in Kubuntu, but I keep having small hardware issues that recur. I had steam working OK, but I use Solidworks which is a no go. Edge browser works great. I'm not an expert tech but I am very familiar with computers and manage my home systems, networks, NAS etc. I actually like Win 11 but they privacy stuff is getting on my nerves. I like MacOS but the Apple tax bugs me. I have a LOT of apple products but I am trying to get away from Apple dependence as well. Mad respect to the Linux community but it is really hard to imagine the average person just launching and using Linux like they do with MacOS and Windows. Shame really. Great PodCast though, thanks! I'll keep playing with my Pi's and some other side systems though.

[@jamestakac8951]

if you can point and click on Windows, you can point and click on Linux. Linux for the most part isn't really harder than windows. Your average joe would likely use mostly point and click functionality. Going onto intermediate and higher end users you'll get to the command line / powershell / terminal commands. Again this imho isn't really any harder on Linux. I've been using both Linux and Windows for a good few years now. I think my first Linux install was in the early 2000's. A Suse version but I can't recall the exact one. As a total Linux Noob at the time I didn't find it that hard to install. And yes I understand many still don't know how to install Windows let alone Linux. Too those wanting to give it a go. If you have a spare pc, try installing there. If not and you have virtualbox or an equivalent virtual machine on your pc, install in that and play around

[@lumeronswift]

Everything has complexities. People find Windows easy purely because they have already used it for 10+ years... if someone is coming fresh to operating systems, simplicity would probably be 1) MacOS 2) Linux 3) Windows And if they are also interested in anything not a Mac (i.e. any other hardware): 1) Linux 2) MacOS 3) Windows Windows is actually pretty complicated to use... having grown up using it I thought it was easy but having swapped to Linux on personal devices and simultaneously working at an office in Windows... it's always harder to work with Windows. Whether it's the endless mandatory updates that force me to shut down while I have a thousand documents and tabs open, or my Latitude overheating while nothing is open, or Office 365 providing three different interfaces and a myriad of issues with synchronisation and lag opening... just a constant hassle.

[@anti_globalista]

Quote reddit user: "if I don't like it hard - I wouldn't be on Linux".

[@John-c3u9o]

As long as all the hardware is working I love linux. The thing that probably deters most people is hardware issues. Most of the time everything works. But there is still uncertainty that you won't have some problem with wifi, or sound, or bluetooth or your printer or your nvidia gpu. So you always have to do research and feel anxious just installing over windows. So you never just go to microcenter to buy a new pc. You have to worry. And frankly the available choice among small Linux hardware vendors is very minimal and involves risk. And Dell and Lenovo etc make the process of finding linux preinstalled incredibly inconvenient.

[@LordKaladar]

I have a pretty recent ThinkPad with a backlit keyboard. Works under Windows 10 and 11, but not under Linux. Even something seemingly as trivial as that could be a deal breaker for some people. I couldn't find a way to get it working (don't remember what distro I was testing) but trying to find the solution led to a lot of CLI commands that didn't work (the command wasn't found) or config file edits in files that didn't exist. 🤣 Wasn't really a showstopper personally but an example of something most folks would assume should 'just work'.

[@ghz24]

@@LordKaladar lenovos are notoriously well supported. I always buy them because I've never had a hardware issue. I'd bet on a boos setting being off.

[@GrumpiestDonut]

[@imzesok]

Apparently some OEMs remove your ability to disable secure boot entirely. What's the first thing every linux OS that's not OpenSuSE tell you if your system also has an nVidia GPU? Disable secure boot. This means the only distro I can ethically recommend to most people I interact with is OpenSuSE. This sadly means no wayland, because the nvidia driver in the repo is old. Like, it'll work, but the flickering and shit drives me crazy. Xorg on the other hand works great, with minimum hassle. Could you get secure boot+nvidia working on other distros? Yeah, probably, but it's a pain in the ass though, and I don't really see anybody taking the time to do that. I think the linux community needs to come to a decision, sooner rather than later. What IS the goal? Do we want more people to adopt linux, or are we just going to keep gatekeeping/remain indifferent? If the former, the endless fragmentation needs to end, and standardization needs to begin. Starting with documentation, be that in manuals, wiki, or video form. Packaging next. As Drew pointed out we can't really have a different name for every package depending on the distro installed. It makes universal documentation harder. Keep a few of the specialty distros for like pen-testing, kiosks and things like that, but pare the rest down to a few noob and advanced users distros. Noob distros will be setup with a completely polished and ready to go image out of the box(think like mint/zorin/opensuse/fedora), and adv user distros will start with nothing more than the bare minimum needed to start(think arch/gentoo). If the latter, we just need to shut up, and stop insisting people try linux at all or that it's the best OS out there. These ideas are antithetical to the idea of keeping linux only for a certain group of people. There's very little, if any, middle ground to be had there, IMO.

[@pyepye-io4vu]

I am tired of the fragmentation argument. Linux kept getting better and better, while fragmentation kept increasing, for decades. Are Windows and Mac unified? No. I don't see anyone complaining about why Windows and Mac don't unify and become compatible / standardized. Humans are not united in anything. Why is there such an expectation / demand for Linux distros then? Even various people in a local government are not "in sync" or coordinated. Even family members who live in the same house are not coordinated. What makes anyone think that such coordination is even remotely feasible among Linux distros? Plus, when there IS standardization everyone hates it. GTK can be considered one example, so many desktop environments are written in it. But everyone hates it. Freedesktop is another one. Everyone hates it. WINDOWS is another one (basically a monopoly on PC). Many people hate it. Screw humans, is what I say.

[@imzesok]

@@pyepye-io4vu You understand that YOU are not everyone, right? GTK is a toolset, free desktop is an organization that encompasses a quite a large number of projects. there's not really much of anything wrong with either, outside of it's leadership I can only assume you're a QT fan, since you didn't see fit to complain about it. That's fine.. the issue is it's yet another standardized toolset, which is a thing you said everyone hates(which would include you). That doesn't make a whole lot of sense now does it? To say humanity isn't united on anything is also patently wrong. We all pretty universally hate ads and greedy corporations. The overwhelming majority of us also generally agree that genocide and war in general is morally wrong, though you might not know it looking at how most of the US voted this year. To say the windows desktop isn't unified, is an insane take i'd expect from someone who's not used it. Same with macOS. install them and take a good look around. everything is uniform across every version of macOS and every version of Windows looks like every other version of windows with the exception of like 3 of them(3.1, bob, and Win8). Their users don't complain about incompatibilities and inconsistencies, because everything is compatible and is consistent there already. They quite simply don't need to complain. They have their versions of things like photoshop, their lightroom, and so on and so forth. We do not. They even have a pretty decent amount of access to various linux available apps to! quite simply there's almost nothing to actually complain about beyond the privacy issues, and the absolute ridiculousness that is the power management in windows. "better" is wholly subjective, and will depend entirely on an individual users work requirements. Most of what you said is a complete non-sequitur. Best I can figure it, you saw the word "fragmentation" and had a knee-jerk reaction, because you clearly ignored everything else that was said. You really need to learn to identify your own bias for what it is. day in and day out linux users complain that there's not enough adoption, but nobody's willing to improve the situation so that people WILL adopt it. How do you get the average person to adopt it? conceptually that's pretty easy, you'd standardize everything. By that I mean, make sure everything behaves in a way that is consistent across all desktops, and have 1 to 1 replacements for things in all areas. People that hate that concept should just be ignored. Also don't screw humans they'll multiply. We can't be rewarding the idiots for bad behavior.

[@Damglador]

I think there's a big issue with Linux hardware. People probably wouldn't want to buy it, at least in terms of noobs. People that are interested in Linux will be able to install it, people that are not will be afraid of compatibility, software not running and just buying a Linux machine will be a risk for them and I doubt their friends will make this risk look any better, if not worse. Cheaper prices tho may attract many people.

[@whitepaperkat67]

Is Linux too hard bro you got people who think Android phones are too hard to use people mostly just use their iPhone nowadays eventually people are just going to use mobile devices and things like matrix chat are going to be history

[@Skelterbane69]

Ironically, I think iphones are harder. Every time I have to fix my grandma's phone, I'm baffled by the layout. I cna barely figure out where hte sttings are, nothing is intuitive. But yea, I get what you mean and agree.

[@TechnoMinded-qp5in]

I don't see how that's possible unless society has gotten that dumber I use Android perfectly fine and I am using Garuda Dragonized as a MacOS replacement it's a combination of solid gold. If you want Arch Linux with a modern retro twist please fill free to stop by and give it a try I'm not sticking around Windows if they plan on making it run through the Cloud Microsoft is just ASKING for trouble.

[@Skelterbane69]

@@TechnoMinded-qp5in I have heard that gen alpha is bad at tech, since they just use phones nowadays, so I guess society is getting dumber again.

[@whitepaperkat67]

@@TechnoMinded-qp5in society has gotten dumber It's very obvious especially with generation alpha

[@pyepye-io4vu]

Even those phones will get dumber and dumber eventually. Human beings' ability to limbo under even the lowest requirement / effort never stops to amaze me.

[@gimcrack555]

Linux is only hard. If you treat Linux like Windows. Linux isn't Windows. Wish people can completely understand this. When I try out Linux my first time. I treat it as is, a Linux distro. Installing package is different than Windows. Linux file system hierarchy, is totally different than Windows file system. Those were my first things I learn of Linux. After that me and Linux got along wonderfully. I was comfortable using Linux my first five days with Linux. After that I stuck with Linux, I never went back to Windows.

[@reverendsky]

20 years of using Debian

[@kylewillett9817]

What y'all are talking about at minute 28 is why BSD is in some sense "better" than Linux. OpenBSD and NetBSD don't change. What worked 10 years ago works today by and large. Unlike Linux that has had 3 major init systems in 20 years and 4 sound frameworks. But to take one BSD say OpenBSD, it has a lot worse hardware support and software support.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

Nobody came into this world knowing how to use a Windows PC either. Too many people seem to forget that they had to put in time and effort learning to drive a Windows PC at some point - whether at school, college, work, on training courses or just messing around with their own Windows PC at home. Once those people remember that they spent that time learning to use Windows, then they should be willing to invest a similar amount of time into learning Linux. If they are not willing to invest that time, then they should stay away from Linux - it is not for such people.

[@LordKaladar]

I agree. I've been "exposed" to Linux a few times since 2004, even doing the Gentoo thing before live CDs were a thing.🤣 My pain points were the normal ones, hardware support, apps, etc. The most painful one was only having one computer. NEEDING to accomplish a task under a deadline - without having the luxury of time to find the right app(s) or the correct config - was often why I had to swap back to Windows. Thankfully, 'extra' hardware is easier to come by now! Recently, I've taken a few of the old laptops I have along with Ventoy and futzed with a few of the current distros to see how they work and which DM and WM I might enjoy. Having separate machines goes a long way to giving yourself time to learn.

[@terrydaktyllus1320]

@@LordKaladar I can't argue with anything you've said, and I wish you the best of luck on your Linux journey.

[@missing_score2]

if noobs could use windows 95 and 98 back in the day, then they can use mint in 2024

[@ghz24]

Not too hard to use for average user just to hard to set up and configure.

[@Little-bird-told-me]

Windows is great but now its slow. Linux make me feel secluded like I am on a island

[@psybertao]

Linux is too hard to use for anyone who doesn't want to learn. Everything is.

[@htx80nerd]

linux is not that hard and there are several distros setup just for new users. my boomer dad used linux for 1+ yr w/o even knowing it. my gf who is not good at IT is using it now no problem.

[@benderbg]

Linux is not hard but people expect it to work the same way Mac or Windows just works. There shouldn't be any problems when users try to install it or update it. Kernel update should never happen if its not compatible with gpu drivers. Black screen with blinking cursor is not an option. Period. Connecting additional drives should be a simple plug'n'play for all distros. Most of this is just the lack of basic Q&A on the distro's side because it's free work no one wants to do so instead its the users who are doing it, sending feedback until its being fixed. Now this is all fine if you want to do this, can fix it yourself or can way for it to be fixed. But when you need OS to just works and you dont know/want to deal will all of that than Linux is not an option. Currently 95% of people dont want to do that and that's why Linux desktop has 5% market share but it has the potential to be at 25% if most distros manage to iron out silly mistakes. I still don't believe archinstall is broken 2 times in the past 3 months because of some typos and since its released on the 1st of every month we always have the following 30 days filled with same questions of what is wrong and how to fix it. People don't want to read older messages, they wont the installed to work.

[@leroywalton4348]

Are users still too lazy to learn how to use Linux? You are asking the wrong question.

[@EllaKarhu]

As someone who has been using Windows since I was a kid, I never really had a reason to switch. Now I do, with Win 10 losing support and 11 looking even scetchier than 10 already was. I'm out. I didn't stop "being lazy." I learned to use a new tool cause the old one is gonna be gone by October. Turns out the new one is pretty good. I just wish the other people using it weren't so annoying.

[@MagmaSlime-nb5ts]

We need a DE that isn't KDE or Gnome. Not too customizable but not too locked down. And yes I know Mint/Cinnamon exists, but that's Debian, which is outdated.

[@Skelterbane69]

XFCE, I guess.

[@MagmaSlime-nb5ts]

@@Skelterbane69 Has no app store/GUI app installer that isn't confusing.

[@iopqu]

That's why they are making cosmic

[@LokiOdinssnn]

Mint is literally perfect.

[@salatwurzel-4388]

@@Skelterbane69 "Is this something from the 90s or why does it look like windows95?" < Every "normal" person when they see xfce for the first time.

[@LL-cz5ql]

yes.

[@ElliottDay-ok6ti]

linux server great, linux desktop a shambles. simple as that its the app devs fault in it all no app plays nice with linux desktop there's constant crashes and issues. id still use it over windows but macOS is still king

[@gapho5198]

Yes.

[@micromonde]

No but to many distro, to many desktop and very little meaningful application for media creation.

[@Matt2010]

Too Hard? ppppffftttttt lol

[@advaitc2554]

3 things in Linux are still very hard to do: 1. Making my data insecure and making my system vulnerable to the most common malware. 2. Making my data susceptible to surveillance by the people who make the OS. And 3. Getting a Linux system that makes it easy to restrict and limit what I can do with my system. Those 3 things are hard to do as a Linux noob. 😂

[@laurentitolledo1838]

Linux is SO VERY HARD to use..... for hardcore close-minded ULTRA FANATIC w$ fanbois...who has ZERO experience with DOS. ...posted this on a Linux Mint mini PC....

[@tyoma_ttv-zg4ly]

@TheLinuxCast why you dont use NIXOS? It very much easy and more better as any linux