MTG Arenas Rigged Matchmaking Exposed + Huge Mistake With Modern Horizons 3

Magic: the gathering news covering modern horizons 3 problems as well as mtg arenas rigged matchmaking
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#TheMagicHistorian #mtg #magicthegathering #mtga #mtgarena #mtgo #mtgmodern #mtgmh3

[@TheMagicHistorian]

Thanks for stopping by my friends, I will be live on my other youtube channel so come say hello - kzbin.info

[@princepersona]

They should at least have a trade in program for the double sided error cards.

[@ryanedwards7487]

Arena is basically “Who’s Line is it Anyway?” …that explains a TON.

[@christopherarmstrong2476]

I've known about the rigged matchmaking for years.... even posted some bipolar rants in the Report a Bug section.... and all the emails I've gotten back were "nothings wrong with our game... sorry"

[@cathonghost]

Nothing is wrong its intentional to them

[@NateBullock-ow6on]

me too for a long time

[@greenfoxx1820]

Matchmakeing in Arena: "Ya play something fun and weird" >> here's lotsa prowess red haste decks ya can fight against. You had enough and go play a deck that countes that shit "Here ya go 7 land draws in a row! Or Stuck at 2 Mana for the same amount!". xD

[@OdinMagnus]

It's not "rigged." Rigged implies that they know the winner. And every single matchmaking is done with some form of variables. If they didn't have this system, there wouldn't even be Arena anymore since no new players can get into the game. Imagine starting out. You have you little precons that win in 7 to 10 turns and all they see are Mono-red, red- white convoke, and control. They will play for about a day before uninstalling. The game would have died. For the same reason they "fixed" the opening draws to pretty much guarantee you get 2 lands minimum.

[@christopherarmstrong2476]

I'm looking to file a lawsuit against Daybreak games.... the same shit is going on in MtGO.... I've dumped over $300 into drafting over the past weekend and only won 1 trophy and about 2-4 seconds place wins..... meanwhile alot of people have 40+ undefeated trophies. You really want to sit there and tell me bennylava1 only spent $12 for 1 draft and somehow has 99+ undefeated trophies....... and it's not rigged

[@Gaming_Antics]

Seen GoCovertBlue play a 100 cards deck with 2 creatures, 8 spells and 90 lands, and he was rolling over people. That’s how rigged Arena is.

[@madjoe8622]

mtg influencers seem to have insane "luck" on arena. No wonder I stopped long ago.

[@NateBullock-ow6on]

Hell I've always said that you're exactly right 💯

[@gameschooldadMTG]

@@madjoe8622 that's the power of editing for you.

[@HunterStiles651]

@@gameschooldadMTG It's not editing. MTGA uses a system created by Activision in 2018 called "Engagement-Optimized Matchmaking". When people say things like "the shuffler mana flooded me to make me lose", what they're experiencing is EOMM. It's a widely known fact that streamers get heavily favored by EOMM because seeing the streamer pop off makes people want to play the game.

[@gameschooldadMTG]

@@HunterStiles651 you should watch them streaming live if you don't think it's all editing.

[@Lelines0]

It's kind of hilarious that they accidently turned magic into gwent.

[@Kagebushin01]

With Ubisoft CEO declaring he doest feel players should be allowed to own their games and has pushed for digital only with rental fees I prefer to have a physical disk even if I have to buy from GameStop

[@lostalone9320]

Sadly a physical disk doesn't mean you own it. With all software for all of time, you have only ever had a licence, which comes with strict terms. Historically it felt like you owned the game, because enforcement was impossible, but today owning a disk is just owning a piece of merch.

[@williamdrum9899]

If buying isn't owning then piracy isn't theft 🏴‍☠️

[@bsheffield87]

​@williamdrum9899 this is what I like to hear. Yo ho ho

[@arsia.]

Yeah, terrible take about physical games from him. Sadly it's true that the scummy publishers start to lock you out aswell, with always online and stuff...

[@williamdrum9899]

I'm kidding, modern games suck so much I don't even pirate them

[@Filipod81]

I built a deck that proves that the shuffler is also rigged. I put together a 60 card deck with juggle the performance and 59 lands split mountains and swamps. You will never get juggle the performance in your opening hand. I’ve played easily over 100 matches discarding down to zero cards, and it’s never shown up. so I took out one of the mountains and threw in an island and the island shows up on average once to twice a game, and juggles still hasn’t shown up. Try it for yourselves, it’s BS.

[@atk9989]

People have a goldfish memory, it was already proven and admitted that the shuffler is rigged early into arena when red decks would run 7 lands and get 3-4 lands early game and just blitz people, Wizards then admitted that there was a "hand smoothing" program to "prevent" non games and that they would have to tune it down. People keep acting like its impossible to do when its been admitted to existing.

[@MaleusMaleficarum]

​@@atk9989 I got into a "fun" reddit argument with someone claiming they never denied "hand smoothing"

[@Carriantor]

Was it Best of 1 or Best of 3? Makes a difference - the hand smoother operates in Bo1 and does not in Bo3.

[@koalemos1679]

Anyone with eyes can tell the shuffler hacks lol. It's obvious.

[@MaleusMaleficarum]

@@Carriantor *eye roll* Yeah. I get it. I had 20 people tell me that today.

[@dm1004]

Why is this surprising? William Jensen told us this years ago with 13 mountain mono red

[@StrangeSignal]

The Orcish Bowmasters note is OBSCENE.

[@Duskrequim]

THIS MAKES SO MUCH SINCE IN ARENA. I would play while at work, 8 -10 hours everyday. I got thousands of games in, and I could NEVER FIGURE OUT the reason for pairing and why certain decks always seemed to be put against the same decks ALL THE TIME. Now I understand. Because I do not play the "Top Tier Cards" The wt system was still pushing my decks to be considered Higher tier even though they were total jank and garbage decks.

[@Duskrequim]

It also explains why I was always being paired against the 200+ decks every 5 games. Because my decks points topped out as high as there decks. I have always hated the way Arena did the pairs and how they always seemed to NOT BE RANDOM FOR DRAWS and that the system forced you to loose at times. Ive basically stopped playing Arena... Its just not fun anymore.

[@laurentrobitaille2204]

What kind of job lets you play video games nearly all the time at work?

[@andysimpson4327]

He says he would, not that he does. I don't think that's a sustainable deal no matter what job you have

[@tannhausergate7162]

@@laurentrobitaille2204 Security guard is a popular choice for that sort of stuff. Lots of people also read or write books on the job, which is how I got to know about it. There are published authors who wrote their first novels while working as guards, because of how convenient that is.

[@Duskrequim]

@laurentrobitaille2204 customer service. When you are on calls or between calls, there's nothing else to do

[@刹那-g7c]

I give you the following 2 "discoveries" in MTGA: 1. time rigged wins (you are allowed to win a game every 20 minutes) 2. As the system is programmed by "geniuses with extensive experience in MTG" regardless of your hand or your opponent, you will draw only lands or blocked in 3 lands until you free yourself from your winning restriction. +3: In a monocolor deck, add a different color land => "That land is in your starting hand almost always 99%" if you are under your win limit restriction.

[@renzuki5830]

Its so funny how this feeds into people's delusions.

[@alexd9134]

My problem with match rigging comes from getting queued into niche hard counters for my deck (which I never come accross otherwise), now that's bad and a huge problem. Someone said playing against 200 card piles when Jace is their wincon and I agree in my experience this happens... a lot. And this is just the most egregious, obvious example because everyone knows normally you can go weeks without playing against a 200 card deck. Just let us play against random decks ffs. I'm new to the game, started playing magic in november and I'm already super jaded. Btw this is speculation but when I keep a hand full of creature removal there seems to be a very high chance the first card my opponent reveals is a deserted beach or seachrome coast

[@sdoren_9074]

Gamestop doing the Pokemon/MTG purchasing is gonna be like mega-christmas for counterfeiters.

[@NateBullock-ow6on]

😂😂😂💯💯🤦

[@JakesFavorites]

They could finally sell that graded Mystery Booster Amulet of Vigor that was falsely labeled as Worldwake.

[@maximillionthermidorfirefl4103]

this exists in standard and ranked is ran by their customer service , gatekept by streamers and employees , hired an independent it company for research, spent 25k of my own money, .. they are cheating as well as stealing information, there should be no reason a game can tell me what color shirt I had on yesterday , as we'll as onow Tue names of my family as opponents, I have tried to contact them with no avail, .. so soon, I'm physically going to their headquarters in WA

[@sdoren_9074]

@@maximillionthermidorfirefl4103 could you sum that up in layman's terms?

[@maximillionthermidorfirefl4103]

@@sdoren_9074 i spent my own money to hire independent testers/people , who came up with the sum of.. arena uses meta technology , just like google and any other big name internet company, it can hear, see, and learn from you as well as feed that info to its customer service , they outsource their customer service as "player base" in other countries , as well as use A.I models that learn from you and your play style , not only was the A.I fully admitted by the devs , as well as the shuffler , algorithms etc. , to the point where it is predatory to people with addictions and psychological issues, I have tried to contact them numerous times, even going to the advent of getting Mark Rosewater phone number and calling him.personally , this entire system is compromised and trained to prey upon us , I also know someone who has mods for arena even tho they are non existent , he only got them to show me the exist and doesn't even play the game, that was enough for me I play paper.. but I use arena to run reps for decks I want to build to be competitive in standard as that is the popular format around here, some of my opponents have been as follows my mothers maiden name the soda I'm currently drinking my name, my kids names names of cards I have on my desk when I play, the name of my deck how many turns I'm going to lose in the song or artist I'm currently listening to the list goes on, ..so.. I hired people to play the game with my own money for a year and write down the strange things , .. and they all match up.. they ..being whoever is on the other end can hear..and see us through our devices , using side loaded gear (I purchased tablets specifically for use with arena only for these people as well, ) some of their opponents were the same, as well as locations, personal numbers etc. the problem is no one seems to listen, the only people that say arena isn't fucked are the streamers and the people that work for them, as well as click farm entities that don't even exist... for full Layman's terms.. we are being fucking played by WoTC , I've played magic since its inception, and arena was in the first round of early players ,.. paper is still good,..if there's a good player base, arena is ran by streamers , their compadres , hackers with hardware etc.. is that enough?

[@macplow2234]

I suspected the rigged matchmaking years ago. That'ds why I stopped playing.

[@christopherszynkowski2524]

Well... it wasn't that gamestop was failing, it was that it looked vulnerable and a bunch of investors started pulling a move where they would pump and dump the stock, which would have killed it regardless of actual profititability. This was noticed by a number of amature investors, who took it to reddit and they started investing in it, which prevented the actual stock tanking, made a lot of money for the small investors and caused the big investors to lose out... which also kept Gamestop from dying at that moment.

[@KyleTremblayTitularKtrey]

Never short more than 100% of a stock. You expose yourself to infinite stock price and liquidation if anyone feels like fucking you.

[@tcsmagicbox]

Big hedge funds were doing a short on it's stock. When retail investors moved in and made the stock price soar, the hedge funds got burned.

[@williamdrum9899]

And then robin hood tried to intervene to protect said hedge funds. Which was a dbag move for sure

[@SonGoku-fz9xo]

The rigged matchmaking is extremely cringe and should be completely removed.

[@dinobonoid3348]

Quality control of this level is unacceptable, and so laughable. I'm fairly certain there are probably more issues that haven't even been discovered with mh3 at this rate. It's like ordering a premium extra supreme pizza and they say, "oopsie, we forgot the cheese! Can't take it back so... Here you can fill it in with free parmesan packets."

[@OmegaGrunt]

Seriously, how the most expensive TCG on the market has the worst quality out of any of them blows my mind.

[@pe-ka1844]

I'd love to see the citation where wizards admitted to the mdfc mistake. just so I can have the exact wording used

[@yurisei6732]

I'd bet money that this is a beauracratic issue. It'll be multiple different people going "not my problem", figuring someone else would catch it, and ignoring it. That's what low morale does to a company.

[@3playerpolitics]

The super high pointscore for Zenith Flare makes sense if cycling lands are scored superlow or zero - Treasure Flare deck was medium powerful despite being almost all lands (and often only one copy of Flare!), so maybe it was an attempt to make sure Treasure Hunt / Flare wasn't constantly stomping noob decks

[@joystickgenie]

Yeah exactly what I was thinking. The rest of that deck would have card ratings in the ground due to them being almost unplayable in most decks. Zenith Flare is the only card in the deck that allows it to win so the weighting on that card is essiantally whe weighting of the deck when put together.

[@tcsmagicbox]

That made sense when it was a powerful card back in Standard. But it seems like no one has updated it since.

[@TomozAlpha]

No wounded Arena has been so frustrating nothing but the same decks over and over all I want to play is zombies but I have no choice to play elves to get my rank up

[@RollingCalf]

I feel the same way. Built an original deck and when I hit diamond is basically all mono red from there

[@ckxspartangaming5887]

Ngl I felt the same until I started playing this off-meta historic deck I used to play that randomly crushes 75-95% of the meta decks and now I went from bronze to mythic in 4 days (neoform-stormvaster combo)

[@abouc]

I'd be happy enough if Arena's algorithm stopped matching me up with Alchemy decks when it sees my deck has no Alchemy cards. Getting waffle stomped by that 6 mana Alchemy Rakdos commander who steals a card every turn is getting really old.

[@Swellington_]

sure is,Ive gotten where I just concede when the first 3 turns they already done the heist thing on me twice ,its too strong for real

[@loksapp]

I try to beat those Grenko decks and consider it as my handicap match against them lol. The problem I hate about those Grenko decks, it feels like every single time I play against them they have the same 3 to 4 cards starting hand. 90% of the time facing that deck they have Duress or Inquisitor that looks at your hand and discard, and then they have reanimate which gives your strongest creature...

[@wafflebroz]

Waffle Stomped? What did I do?

[@loksapp]

@@Swellington_ Also, is it just me, or any time I get matched against Grenzo deck, they always go first, wth, as if it's not op enough already....

[@hailstrum]

How about Wizards create a play queue designed with no weighting or MMR. Actually completely random matches and see if people have a better experience?

[@madjoe8622]

And with random shuffling.

[@lostalone9320]

Once upon a time MODO (as it was known) used ELO, literally the same as Chess. That isn't perfect, and means that pros aren't able to ever really play for fun, but the principle was purely on your record and your skill, end of story.

[@jasonclarkson3246]

Whenever I play standard mill and ONLY when I play standard mill, I go up against players with 200+ libraries.

[@gyorgyor7765]

Good

[@raiseer]

If I was in charge, I would pair mill decks with Seven Lives decks every single time.

[@bounceday]

archetype matchmaking is pretty heavy rigging

[@LazyJ45]

Very well

[@jmoney9494]

I once played against a 'real' opponent who had a 200 card deck with memory deluge (lol) and found 3 of their Jaces in the first 20 cards

[@jaxonsevero1045]

Arenas shuffler is such bullshit. I run one two colour land in one of my decks and I somehow manage to draw it every game while my elesh norn only shows once every three games and I run four copies

[@madjoe8622]

If you put one land in you deck. It will always be in your starting hand. Yep, it's rigged big time.

[@deanofcool]

Been complaining about this for ages, and the argument that comes back is “variance”. I run two copies of demo field in a mono colour deck ang et both copies of it in my opening hand as my two lands (making it unplayable) a ridiculous amount of times. Same with coin flip too

[@JakesFavorites]

Oh yeah! Control decks were so difficult to run back in the day because you'd run four Wraths and get none of them against a red deck.

[@nikolaskohl4269]

Man, remember when misprints were so rare that they were collectible? The fact that they are like, yeah we screwed up double sided cards and you can just google the back side, that's actually one of the laziest things I've ever heard.

[@yellow_jacket3260]

I had a feeling that arena was rigged, because I did noticeably better at matches with my local community compared to the matches that I get put up in Arena

[@Red-Yo]

This is why online will never supersede table magic.

[@jmoney9494]

There is so much in game rigging also of things that happen so much it has to be orchestrated. Like if i play deep cavern bats and would remove someones legendary creaure they always have 2 in hand. Or they have nothing good and top deck a super good card for them. I think part of deck building is not always having a perfect hand but dealing with the hand you have but every mono red or poison deck has literally every card they need to thwart me every game even if i have multiple pieces of the correct removal. I have so many times been 1 turn from winning and opponent has 1 card in hand, 1 card out of thousands and its perfect removal. I play creatures they have board wipes. I play artifacts/enchantments they have zero creature removal but all the correct removal. Opponent has a 200 plus card deck with 4 colors and no mana fixing problems and i struggle to have even more than 2 mana

[@andysimpson4327]

Are they going to print correct two sided cards? I'm not interested in owning cards that have errata before they even get out of the freakin pack

[@Frogleeoh]

My thoughts as well. This news is more upsetting to me than it really should be. I was excited for Modern Horizons 3, but if the cards aren't actually going to come out of the packs as advertised, it makes me want to skip out on the sealed product entirely, and just claim my discounted fetch lands.

[@edgabrillo1909]

That rumor about rigged matchmaking in the arena has been around for a long time, and I believe it. Despite everything, we're still here, playing the game. I just love this game, and it was a big part of my childhood. Plus, I don't have access to physical cards, so MTG Arena works well for me.

[@matthewmccreight9854]

This resembles the pitcher problem, where you have 1 pitcher filling 1 container and 4 surrounding ones are empty; then in the next frame you have 1 pitcher trying to fill all 5 containers and doing so absolutely poorly. Captioned "you can do anything, but you can't do everything."

[@BlueGriffin20]

I understand the reasoning as you can’t pick your opponents if you que or even rule 0 about decks, but it still feels scummy. Especially if they don’t adjust the data when the data dictates. Also means you can’t just have fun match if you’ve used a power deck over and over giving your record.

[@innarrixl6753]

Best of 1 they admitted to using a hand smoothing algorithm. I think it's based off of rarity. Noticed best of 3 is much more random.

[@lookfat]

Who do they think they are, the wizard of oz? A shuffle should be random.

[@innarrixl6753]

There is 2 different things to take into account. A rand function is not truly random, it's a function that appears random. True randomness is actually pretty rare in coding. There's also a tendency for people to look at random events and try to view them as less random than they are.

[@lostalone9320]

I am not buying that in 2024 a big corporation cannot make an adequately random shuffling algo to play a card game. If online poker can achieve sufficient randomness to be legal then Hasbro can manage to shuffle to that level.

[@pe-ka1844]

the only reason I wanted to get this set WAS the double faced cards. if some of them are all going to be misprints then I'm waiting for the second print where they fix it. or is it just random ones that are borked?

[@xerokitsune]

The point system sounds like it's designed to put older cards into the hell que. This makes sense from a scumbag perspective, gotta encourage people to change decks to get new cards.

[@FluffySpikeM]

It’s the other way around. New cards don’t apparently get a rating for some time (some speculate it being half a year), since there is no data on their power level. In Brawl the famous example was Rusko. A lot of the lower-ranked commanders are from precon decks, so they’re actually really weak. Card ratings could also be put in a away to reflect the power level of decks they are played in, so saying “the one ring is only a 9, Zenith Flare is 216, zomg” isn’t that smart. Overall, the ratings are not necessarily misplaced, save for older cards’ numbers not getting updated to correct for power creep.

[@JakesFavorites]

It could be the inverse, to shield new players who only.have new cards, from old cards. No oldhead should be playing Arena at this point.

[@aralornwolf3140]

@@JakesFavorites, IMO no one should be playing Arena... it's just a cash grab. :/

[@JakesFavorites]

@aralornwolf3140 Well yeah. I quit years ago. I was shouted down when I said it was rigged.

[@aralornwolf3140]

@@JakesFavorites, I played it for a couple of months several years ago... When I saw I could spend money on "card packs" to expand my collection... I knew _then_ what it was. If I wanted to give WOTC money for MTG, I would have bought the real cards, lol. At least they have real value. But, I also wasn't really happy. I was a casual and the only friends I played with were very competitive... to the point they held a weekly tournament. *Shakes Head* There were only three decks which were winning said tournament and I had none of those cards. *Sigh* I would have loved to spend money on luxury cardboard rectangles, if they weren't priced so high where I live.

[@TheDarkElder]

Nah, well. They wouldn't just need some intern to assign numbers. Gauging power of Magic cards is not done by any one person, it is done through game play. Remember all the cards in reviews we thought to be okay but then they'd combo off on insane levels? You cannot just assign a number to a card, it needs context. That means this simple "assign points" and apparently never update scenario is just a no-effort way to rank cards and decks. There are some solutions for sure, but that would require Wizards to get some mathematicians onboard to create proper models and weighting for card combos and all that what makes a deck not just a collection of 40, 60 or 100 cards. Don't underestimate how complex the transition from "I have an idea" to code can be.

[@lanmarknetworking3034]

They really need points to make Commander work on Arena...

[@cherry9787]

Maybe have it based on win rate?

[@Wintercide]

It's not like there are websites like Commander's spellbook that have most of if not all the combos so WotC should definitely have the information too. And then just double the assigned numbers or something when combo cards are played in the same deck.

[@NetherVoiD]

Buddy, the quality of their cards now is the same as their game.... CHEAP. You honestly think they will go that far to hire mathematicians and scientists to make a game.? Stick woth reality Hasbro will NOT do that.

[@von4031]

Hmm idk man.

[@AlexRedStar]

Gamestop: for that obvious $500 card? We offer you $5 but only in store credit. Gamestop puting the card on display: $900+tax.

[@steamsteamy]

law against unfair gaming= to prevent "practices" that "exploit" consumers or create an unfair advantage for certain parties. In the context of Magic drafting, laws related to gambling and consumer "protection" may apply, particularly if there are concerns about transparency (in this case, an obvious rigged shuffler) fairness, or "deceptive" practices. But for some reason, Magic drafting is considered a game of "skill" rather than "pure chance". Paper magic is, but MTGA is not, which may affect how it is "regulated". Key word. Regulated! MTGA is not regulated and can exploit any underage individual (in the hopes of lining their pockets) by exploiting these "variables".

[@egoalter1276]

Any game of chance is required to publically make availible all of its chance bqsed mechanics as per most laws on gambling. MTGA is rigging their matchmaker and shufflergiving us the exact specifics of how is illegal. But than again MTG itself is unregulated gambling for minors, and nobody ever bulldozed them for the card packs, because in the eyes of the law, the cards therein are all equally valuable, despide transparently demonstrable evidence to the contrary.

[@J_Dubb1]

So when I try and call customer service to have my misprinted card replaced with a tournament legal copy so I can...... play in touraments, what is their response going to be to my request? Let me know below :

[@mantizshrimp]

sorry for the quality issues. here's the same card without mistakes. you can keep your old one as a gesture of good will

[@KaiHouston-m6j]

Buy one that is Tourney legal, Duh! :)

[@HogLordSupreme]

love seeing wizards putting in work where it doesnt need it on arena, instead of adding cards to the fucking game

[@dragade101]

I love how Stifle, Tempered Steel, Pack Rat, Burning-Tree Emissary, Doom Blade, Searing Blood, Kolaghan's Command, Prismari Command, Elite Spellbinder, Solemn Simulacrum, etc all have the SAME 45 points as: Emergent Ultimatum Genesis Ultimatum Shark Typhoon Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath Yawgmoth, Thran Physician Young Pyromancer Craterhoof Behemoth Yet cards like Crafterhoof Behemoth (45 points) vs Nissa, Ascended Animist (27 points) or Lotus Cobra (45 points) vs Nissa, Resurgent Animist (9 points); these are just some of the lovely contradictions in Brawl. Another card that can pop off while being in your 99 is Radagast the Brown and is only 9 points worth. Luckily Risen Reef is an 18 point card lol... We see the contradictions #WotC (values based on 27 May 2024 calculations)

[@gankgoat8334]

At this rate I don't think Hasbro will be even able to sell the IP off and make a profit.

[@stormtrooperjeepjk]

I don't think this is true.... Magic CAN make money, just not the way hasbro is trying to do it, a good "buyer" would know

[@gyorgyor7765]

​@@stormtrooperjeepjk MtG still makes insane money, MtG and D&D is what keeps Hasbro afloat right now.

[@jaysuede2627]

​@@gyorgyor7765 For now. It keeps afloat for now.

[@stormtrooperjeepjk]

@@gyorgyor7765 true, they do, but could you imagine what they'd make if they didn't piss off the base?

[@WTFMTG-bw8dv]

When you game online not using physical games or in tandem the companies record your every move and decision and create a profile they sell on you to many others. Physical gaming on PS3 is where im at for life…. They charge you to take your profile online…. Crazy idiots will comply to play….

[@jackzhu462]

is this only affecting the Play Boosters, or all product lines (Play Boosters, Collector's Boxes, etc.)?

[@pyredynasty]

GameStop has stopped more games than any other company.

[@helhal]

MH3 problems: The focus is too much on Phelia the dog. That's why soo many mistakes made.

[@localhorst4159]

Is there a source for that point ranking? I cannot find one.

[@retekretekretek]

It was a common theory since the early days of arena that your opponent is based on the deck you play. Interesting to see it being confirmed.

[@jaydub5515]

I know WotC was hiring a Flavor Text Author a while back. Maybe they didnt have anybody working when they were designing

[@vonaudije1207]

they took a huge blunder with magic 30th, they promised the investors money and well, that did not happen. They can not project the money they promised with sales because most of the sets sucks, that is why they instead cut corners ( reduced quality, lay offs, etc.. ) to at least compensate.

[@Goatchaser]

I have been saying its all rigged from the beginning. I have been doing my 4 daily wins everyday for about 4-5 years. You start to see patterns. The game forces a 50-50 win rate. If you play mono red then 70% of your games are against mono red. If you run anti aggro/ mono red hate, then you will actually go against them 10% of the time. Play a deck will anti creature then you'll be matched up against a deck with no creatures. Its kinda hilarious at times. Play mono red and play the mirror match 10 games in a row. Switch to anti aggro then you never see another mono red. Switch back and suddenly mono red everywhere. I found that the best thing to do is to concede 20 games in a row. It forces a 50-50 win rate so you basically auto win a bunch of games in a row.

[@heecks9375]

Where you get the info about the points system ? Thank (link)

[@Gouretoratto]

I always felt matchmaking was based on money spent. My question is how do card points weigh against how high demand a card is/rarity

[@rubenrebenz1000]

The fact that people collect mis-cuts & misprints is baffling, considering WOTC’s QA is nil.

[@steamsteamy]

Hasbro is using illegal "gaming" in order to devour our money. this is a crime.

[@tako4316]

Does anyone have a source for the MDFCs having a printing error?

[@suntzu6122]

Double sided cards have been TRASH since day one. JUST STOP MAKING THEM. Who the h3ll wants to pull a card out of its sleeve mid game as a 'normal mechanic'?

[@shawnpanzegraf5642]

Me? Turntimber Symbiosis is a favorite of mine precisely due to my being able to drop it as a land if I see it too early. If it was a single-sided 7-drop? Trash. Vanilla Vorinclex is one of the best Green creatures ever made. Without that Saga-flip? Why would I ever play it over something like Elder Gargaroth, which has the same stat line for cost, an additional keyword, and far more Triggered abilities. The Ojer cards are absolutely beloved in several colors. MaRo knows I adore Ojer Kaslem. Burning up my opponent’s limited supply of Exile-based Spot Removal is always a priority, which makes it a great card to increase the survivability of my Commanders. I get that it could be annoying for someone who multi-sleeves, but are there really that many must-play DFCs?

[@suntzu6122]

@@shawnpanzegraf5642 they dont need to exist. They are a terrible mechanic when any normal adult will sleeve their cards. Suggesting someone should un protect their cards mid match for some goofy card that would easily be rededesigned without the flip mechanic. Mtg was fine without it for like 25 years lol

[@RaceBandit]

HCBailly had to explain this to me: Wizards tends to print checksheet cards you're supposed to sleeve into your deck as a substitute, with the real card set aside.

[@shawnpanzegraf5642]

@@suntzu6122 I mean, I’m not wedded to the concept of DFCs specifically. I just see them as an outgrowth of power creep. You can’t fit enough text in one box to make some cards, after all. After starting in April of ‘96 and staying until the end of the Urza’s Block, I only returned for EDH right around LotR/Throne of Eldraine, so I know what you mean. I just don’t see a need to resleeve one or two of my own cards as any more arduous than waiting through all the shuffling due to Fetches of various stripes, and Tutors, of course. Then again, I only single-sleeve, so it might just be it isn’t enough work to bother me.

[@suntzu6122]

@@shawnpanzegraf5642 I think if youre a good enough designer you can design interesting and unique cards WITHOUT needing 2 sides of a card to do it. Like I said, we got along just fine without for a long long long time.

[@TeeJayDubyiu]

My Kinnan Bonder deck would never face anything other than a mirror or Bridge/Bolas Dragon god and Golos decks and felt it was rigged. I was called retarded for thinking this by some peers. I'm glad now some Arena shenanigans have been exposed. Cheers Mike!

[@JakesFavorites]

I must have been the other guy! I had a Bolas deck and was matched against Kinnan and Niv-Mizzet 5-color at least 30 times a day until I quit the whole thing.

[@christopherb501]

I watch a stream that routinely talks about the meme stonk phenomenon, in all its futility and idiotic splendor, with BBY and GameStop coming up most. I will be curious to see how MtG adds to the mythology.

[@dameongeppetto]

I love how everyone just assumes that these deck weighting systems don't apply to ranked. Really? Why? Because WotC said at one point 6 years ago that they weren't applying the weighting to ranked queues? Did everyone forget about the document (which they removed from their website) regarding what factors they used in matchmaking specifically said they could apply deck weighting to any format at any time in 2018? BTW, the things that WotC stated were available factors (coded into the game prior to release in 2018) for matchmaking in all formats are as follows: MMR (secret) Rank (public - I.E. Platinum 4) Current win/loss record Time playing the game (current play session length) (There was a fifth one which I have forgotten) For all those asking for proof, the document was removed from their website last year, 2023, at some point. They could have just broken the link, moved it to a different link, or deleted it entirely.

[@thatdudergaming1424]

Where can I get the point scale for magic cards in mtg arena?

[@K1ngMidas]

I knew there was a reason the very first match I made a brawl deck with Atraxa it was a mirror match, yet before that point I had NEVER gone against an Atraxa of either kind

[@drinjj]

I actually did get the error message myself (I think). I couldn't figure why it happened. One day it was working and the month after I couldn't queue with it. It was a meme glass cannon combo deck with Galadriel as commander, thassa's oracle, marith lage's slumber and 97 snow land. By poking around I had to drop the land count to ~76 if I remember well. Didn't know why, just knew I had to. At that point the deck did nothing of what it was supposed to do. Given the point value of nonbasic lands I'll see if there's enough snow non basics to raise the value of the deck for it to be playable again.

[@dagamingsalmon7668]

Once you know how MTGA is rigged it's 100% abusable. You're either: Player D: A new player who has no idea. Player C: An average/weak/casual player, but gets that something is definitely off. Player B: A midwit who thinks it's not rigged and Wizards are 9,000 IQ omni-benevolent angels. Player A: Someone who knows how the rigging works and tries to take maximum advantage of it. This makes Player B & C free real estate. Your only real opponent becomes other "A" Players. _(You won't usually encounter Player D ever since they are in the pool of new players.)_

[@Beckola44]

Double faced cards is another example of Wizards not checking their work on their products. Like I said before, I quit playing Arena close to 3 years ago. Wizards is getting quite LAZY now and they don't care. Thank you for the video Magic Historian.

[@steamsteamy]

I would love to hear your take on this matter Mr. Historian!!!

[@ABZANTurtle]

been playing 250+ Decks for about 3 years and noticed the riggedness; 1. some decks would be ok-ish, except the constant amount of "cards that intuitively counter your decks strategy" being in their top 7 cards almost every game. Playing ANY artifact deck = ALL anti artifact cards, even the less than 10 different "destroy/exile all artifacts cards" that would be useless against anything else GUARANTEED to be seen every 10 games without fail. 2. after slimming down to 200 cards ... life got easier but got f***ed up every time I would play ranked for about 2-4 weeks of extra "unfair" matches, making the "free" booster worthless to me to even risk doing that ever again 3. some color pairs are literally forced to play only select strategies because if they do not = about less than 33% HARD LOCKED win rate, if they try

[@NorthBayCryo]

400CAD for a standard booster box is to much even for a specialty set. The set itself is lackluster with cards ether being stupidly broken or crappy. its terrible. Wizards is lazy, they screw up a card and just tell you to play it instead if replacing there mistake.

[@angusayres888]

Anyone know where I can take a look at the point list?

[@TheMagicHistorian]

its on the mtg arena reddit

[@snackplaylove]

I’m glad this is public now as a lot of us have known about it for years. Also Play mode tries to get you to 50/50 win rate so you end up going first a lot less if you win more. Playing ranked is much better for this, but no idea if the deck score matters there (yet)

[@TwOwAyGrin]

Anyone who thinks arena aint rigged is just stupid at this point honestly shouldnt be any rigging everyone should go against everyone if your deck is trash you get stomped that simple only thing that should determine who you go against is the rank youre in thats it

[@NateTmi]

That would explain how/why I often see some of the same cards I am playing as a card in the deck I am matched with.

[@UnkleWillard]

Watching the vid as I type but. I noticed on arena a while back that when playing ranked seem to get certain matchup types so aggro is usually vs aggro maybe midrange. When I’m in my weird control deck I love o rarely see aggro. It’s just money they are chasing. They need the matches to feel fair. Lots of new players, fast gameplay, I’m Older, 37 as a high school teacher with a mtg club arena is what we introduce them to to learn the rules. But kids mentally keeping up with interactions, triggers ect. They would never stick with paper if it’s their first exposure. Being flooded or just bad hands makes a bad experience. Arena just holds our hands does all the math and we swing and hope. You may be good at arena but the paper don’t untap or add all your counters. The app itself is fantastic but it comes with kid gloves for financial purposes. It’s a business let the suckers buy what we know is crap and power creep and beat em with knowledge.

[@Reldane]

I think that Zenith Flare makes more sense than it at first looks like. 56 cards consisting of basic land, and a bunch of common and uncommon cycling cards will score really low for arguments sake let's just say that 56 cards added to 200 total, but if the last 4 cards are zenith flares and suddenly the deck plays like a 1000 score deck. That is an 800 weight difference between where the deck sits and what it is calculated as. Now wizards can either increase all the common and uncommon cards which aren't being played for their own effects, just because they can be cycled and indirectly increase the deck weighting of anyone playing those cards in other decks non competitive decks. Or they have to put all that increased weighting onto just the 4 cards that make the deck play at that tier, so that the total weight increases to the 1000 mark. And each Zenith Flare becomes worth 200 points.

[@steamsteamy]

thinking... so if Railway Brawler is a "100" point card, then why did I lose 3 times in a row to a card that should be worth 1?

[@endersblade]

MTG is on its last legs, mark my words.

[@jarrettmaurice3070]

Why wasn’t the “weight” values tied directly to the price of the card? Demand goes up for powerful cards therefore price goes up making the card “weigh” more

[@pokedadsam9041]

16:09 agreed on zenith flare. people complained about cycle decks forever. It probably got its points set based on salt and never changed. I did laugh at the one ring and seeing it be 9 points. 9 points for the kings of men. I’m assuming lotr was done this way to let people play the new cards. Let people buy the new product.

[@calic737]

The fun never stops at wizards lol

[@dragade101]

All WotC had to do was assign points for a given format. That Zenith Flare should have scores for Timeless, Historic, Explorer, Alchemy, Standard (when it applies). Meaning if a card is great in Standard but likely less good elsewhere, even if the Standard score was not updated; a card like Zenith Flare wouldn’t continue to have a misrepresented score (if we must use this point system).

[@jacksonlittle5993]

There should be 0 weighting in ranked playlists. Any manipulation of a "competitive" environment means you're either artificially winning more or someone else is artificially winning less which defeats the entire point of playing a ranked playlist to begin with. Most games now days have enforced 50% win rates in order to keep people from going on big win streaks or going on big loss streaks. Why? because of microtransactions, you want lesser skilled players to feel warm and fuzzy so they spend money in the shop so if they get outplayed 10 games ina row they might just quit. So essentially better players most often have artificially deflated win rates regardless of their skill level. For every 1 thing WoTc reveals or confirms about their rigging there are 5 other things they aren't telling you. Do you think they would just show you their entire hand? Nope they are playing the end game and are two steps ahead of that. Microtransactions actually harm competitive/ ranked play in games.

[@vampirica11]

As a software developer, a weight system for cards absolutely makes sense. It would also make sense that the cards can go up and down in time automatically based on win chance when used. Zenith Flare won me every single game. I would lose the game if I did not draw Zenith Flare.

[@acetraker1988]

That has got to be some epic trolling, many overpowered cards being values as 9 points. Ergo the Power 9.

[@se7enfoot]

Welcome to Arena, where the rules are made up and the points don't matter.

[@joejojo5966]

makes you wonder if mh3 is a fully ai created set lol? Gamestop should just open up stores for tcgs lol

[@williamdrum9899]

AI has zero concept of color pie

[@Tornven2003]

I love it when my jank decks that haven't cost much at all beat proper "pro" decks full of every expensive card. Tend to find this with control decks or 4-5 colour decks on Arena. Some people forgot after spending all their cash that buying all the cards doesn't mean winning with all the cards.

[@allyourpie4323]

Zenith Flare is so overpowered that nobody killed by it in the game ever survived to tell you about it in real life.

[@Grimlock1979]

When I got matched against Zenith Flare players often, I just started playing Soul-Guide Lantern.

[@slayerofthebuzz1]

I thought it was a coincidence, and it still might be, but I've quick drafted OTJ quite a lot and until today had never seen a catarantula on my opponent's board. But today, i played 5 games and saw 7 OF THEM.

[@00110000]

On the one hand, I'm happy the community finally has vindication for their suspicions of Arena's matchmaking, which hopefully leads to change. On the other hand, I yearn for the simple ignorance of not needing to worry about how I should optimize my deck for the matchmaker. Ugh.

[@fuzzbuzz6581]

Where would one find this point list?

[@ODIRGO]

I think you are seeing the point system backwards. Maybe the lower the points are an indication that the game will put those cards in your hand more often than the cards with higher points, because they want to show the power of those cards as often as possible, even if the game forces them. For example, have you noticed how often black decks have Dark Ritual in their hand in the very first 3 turns of the game... or monowhite decks have so often either Plowshares or Esper Sentinel in their very first hand, without even mulligan for them? same for turn 1 Bolt or Monkey in red, or Wash Away or Mana Drain in monoblue. They want those cards to shine, by having them most of the times in the turns they are more powerfull. The boros Zenith may have so many points, because it's a finisher, so the game wants you to draw that card almost at the end of the game... "to win the game by top decking it by the power of the heart of the cards", hahaha.

[@jaysuede2627]

I always knew Arena was rigged. I never had the capacity to prove it, just didn't have the knowledge in computer and data science, it just always felt intuitively screwed up.

[@dervakommtvonhinten517]

Does anyone know where to find the point ratings for the cards?

[@Lodosswar100]

The only people who didn't know the MM was rigged were Discord Mods lol

[@gameschooldadMTG]

Who would have ever thought that Arena uses a system to encourage fairer and more balanced matches... apart from anyone who listened to Wizards when they literally told us that years ago...

[@pakeshde7518]

Lamestop will offer 1/4th portion and they will take all the risk.

[@nlsoundwave5656]

Regarding the weighting system, I wonder if part of their forumula has to do with how many times someone voted "frowny face" when they ask how their match was due to being salty from losing to Zenith Flare... Also, while they're annoying, neither the One Ring nor the Archers are instant win-cons (and the Archers are easily killed, although you obviously don't want to take too long in getting rid of them).

[@ES_DCSAVIOR101]

I literally only play Standard Ranked so it makes sense why I never noticed the rigged matchmaking.

[@steamsteamy]

down the rabbit hole we go Is limited magic a form of gambling? Gamble=to take a chance by wagering something valuable (money) on an "uncertain" outcome, often in games of "chance" or "speculative ventures", with the aim of gaining a "favorable" result. 1st question I have. Does anyone straight up spend money on a MTGA draft just for pure entertainment value? Or do you not spend money in the hopes of going "infinite" and never having to spend money on gems ever again. I would deem this a "favorable" result. What is considered gambling? Consideration=something of value (money or gems) that participants "risk" in the hope of winning a prize. If limited isnt a form of gambling, then why are there " prize payouts" depending on what place you come in? Chance=the outcome of the activity is "predominately" determined by "luck" or "random chance", rather than skill. If you draw 8 lands in a row (which happens every single fucking draft it seems like) how does "skill" have anything to do with it. Remember... we are talking about a rigged shuffler. Prize=participants have the "opportunity" to win something of value. I.E. gems and packs.

[@leodalkey651]

I imagine a 100% netdecked budget Rielle running over lightly salted precons in bottom tier EDH.

[@MrRuff-cc3lg]

I have been saying this for years!!! I have pretty much stopped playing Arena because IT'S NOT FUN GETTING MANA SCREWED OR FLOODED! I love this game but logging in to get gold so I can buy cards that don't show up or are in decks that constantly lose is just not fun.

[@deohere7647]

They're charging double for basic packs of modern horizons 3 and... They are printing this many errors? Wow. Utterly pathetic.

[@antoniojesusperezpolo6186]

. The Idea of separating skill rate and deck power level is indeed good. They just have to 1) better calculate deck strength based on the winning percentage when you use math to extract the bias introduced by aspect like player skill, tier and even other factors like time of the day, and also used a tool that measures the distance from a given deck to the optimized landmark decks of each archetype, and using that vector in the calculation and 2) Update those calculation dynamically for each format. The problem is not that is "rigged" because, *even with this faulty system* , the (new) player experience benefits from the matchmaker taking into account the limitations in your card pool and your developing of deckbuilding abilities. *Yeah*, even this bad system is making the game somewhat "better". But the real problem is they need to put more effort to do that well enough.