Explaining All Banned Cards in Modern [Part 1]

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

It's funny how Kamigawa was one of the lowest powered sets in modern magic, but it had some of the most broken individual cards hidden in it.

[@vDeadbolt]

It wasn't really low powered. It's that Mirrodin was so high powered that Kamigawa didn't even leave a dent in the format.

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

@@vDeadbolt Nah, the regular cards were definitely mostly way overcosted for their statlines and effects. For example, soulshift was a neat idea for monsters continually recurring others, but every spirit was priced like 2-3 mana more than normal, making it pretty terrible. Bushido had a similar problem. Other mechanics like Splice into Arcane were too narrow an insular as well. While there are plenty of gems (mostly at the rare level though), the sets as a whole probably had about the powerlevel of a weak core set (balancing stronger rares and specific picks with absolutely abysmal general commons and uncommons).

[@philippschmidt9499]

@@TheEmperorGulcasa I would disagree. While most commons and uncommons are bad, there are also a good variety of playable ones (lava spike, footsteps, desperate ritual, ideas unbound, but also some EDH stuff), while most of the rares are terrible, especially the legendary creatures. Sure, there are some good rares, but that's what rares should be in the first place: a bit better than the others (at least since the 2000s).

[@TheEmperorGulcasa]

@@philippschmidt9499 I did say there were select non rares that were good. Lile sakura tribe elder and such. Most being abysmal still stands though, making the limited experience pretty horrid. I'd still say the sets had a pretty large number of stand out rares though. Like Champions had the dragon cycle, Eight and a half tails, Isamaru, Gifts ungiven, Kiki Jiki, Glimpse of Nature, some edh stuff like the myojins, Through the Breach, Azusa, Boseju, Hall of the bandit lord, Minamo and Shizo. Betrayers: Jitte, Goryo's vengeance edh wise, Ninjas, Toshiro, Kira, Sway of the Stars was silly enough. Betrayers was admittedly the low point. Champions: Pithing Needle, Kataki edh wise, Maga, Kami of the Crescent Moon, a lot of the flip cards, Arashi, Sakashima, Twincast, Reki, Kagemaro, Seed the land, Sekki. Admittedly a decent number of these were good but have since become overcosted (especially a lot of the edh stuff) due to eventual power creep. Still a ton of staple cards overall.

[@jessicalundholm2773]

Kinda like Legends. The bulk of the set is litteral garbage but it has some of the most busted cards in the game hidden in there

[@Entropic_Alloy]

Dredge is a replacement effect, so when you dredge for your draw step, you do NOT draw a card. Also when people use Cathartic Reunion or any other card like it, they are using it to get dredgers in the yard and replace the draws with dredge effects. They are not using them to draw cards, but they can draw if they need it.

[@OverlyCriticalAnime]

In a way it is still drawing since each dredge card you decide to draw or not. Its any time you draw making cards like cathartic reunion really good with it. Its not just on your turn.

[@TheEmeraldboy100]

Also Cathartic Reunion's discard is a cost, so even if you counter it, they can wait for the next draw step to start dredging.

[@MsMiDC]

Do you *have* to dredge cards, or is it optional? So like you can either draw a card, or dredge? Or if you have a dredger in the GY do you have to do it? Edit: i read stinkweed imp, so i can see it is actually optional.

[@WMDistraction]

There were a few fundamental misunderstandings in this video. Cascade is lesser CMC, not less or equal, for example.

[@thaddeusgenhelm8979]

The comment about them "going to draw a card" was about how trying to draw a card on the draw step lets you trigger dredge without them taking any additional actions.

[@h4tz]

I was listening to the video and asked myself “Is that TheDuelLogs?” Then checked the channel name! Pleasantly surprised to see your content for a game i have more experience in!

[@merlinroche5263]

Loved your yugioh content back when I used to play, love the stuff you're making for magic, a game I've played for quite a while now. A lot of magic content assumes everyone already knows everything, I heavily enjoy your videos that revisit some seemingly basic concepts.

[@xxbignolanxx]

Just a side note, hypergenesis stops putting stuff on the board when all players stop putting stuff on the board, not just one. So if you don’t put something down on the board but your opponent does, it will still repeat until you both agree to stop (or can’t)

[@GreatgoatonFire]

Well, this is going to be a long running show. Looking forward to the next episode.

[@DarkX64]

11:02 "You can cast the top card of your library by paying life...rather than paying life" This typo made me double take and then chuckle x3

[@quinceetompkins]

I just found this channel and I have to say… excellent content! The best explanations for new mtg players and old!

[@vandieyahya1024]

Yes please do more, dear Manalogs! This is so interesting if you keep telling what is broken and whats is not

[@christianrojas7353]

I can’t wait to see more, would be awesome for the series to continue

[@nauticoom]

His other channel went over all the banned YGO cards, so I think this is just the start :)

[@danlorett2184]

One thing that wasn't mentioned with Divining Top: with Counterbalance, the top ITSELF is a guaranteed counter for every one casting cost card. Even worse - you can pay one mana, use it, then tap it to draw (effectively a brainstorm) and it's still going to counter as well. Counterbalance/Top was pretty oppressive.

[@williamdrum9899]

It's one of those funny interactions. Kind of like if you activate Elvish Piper, and your opponent casts Containment Priest in response, you can then choose not to put a creature onto the field. Since the effect is "you may..." you choose at resolution whether to do it.

[@kailar9415]

Interestingly enough recently Mengucci and Kanister did a match where one of them were using hypergenesis while the other used 4 modern decks that he would choose (Mengu chose uw hammer time, living end, 4 colours elemental combo and izzet murktide) and the hypergenesis deck didn't win a single game, it went 0-12. So probably it would be a safe and interesting ban. (Since the deck list could be slightly optimized)

[@TNCombatMedic]

I’m pretty sure it would be safe to unban after that fiasco. It was rough watching it lose.

[@wavedash101]

@@TNCombatMedic those small sample size “can these be unbanned” videos are basically worthless. Especially since the card being tested often is in a version of its old deck and thus hilariously outdated or hastily jammed into an existing deck that is close enough. And they often don’t consider how easily future cards will turn it into Golgori Grave Troll and need to be rebanned

[@bunnyben5607]

Kanister did use up to date cards, he essentially built a deck all legal cards in modern since the video came out July this year. Here's the video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rnfFnXmMqMZ1eMU I dunno, I think it's a pretty good sample of how it could perform. Usually if a deck is broken you'll immediately know. It's obvious hypergenesis isn't even a very strong card. Wizards didn't ban it because it's strong, actually, but it was banned for the same reason splinter twin was banned, and that's because the hypergenesis version of the cascade deck can win essentially spontaneously. Crashing footfalls can get 2 4/4 rhinos on the board turn 3, but that's not enough to kill your opponent turn 3. Hypergenesis essentially allows you to get a completely unkillable Emrakul out turn 3 which means you essentially lose the next turn. It's a stupid philosophy I know, but wotc has outlined that they consider archetypes or cards which give you an immediate unanswerable win ban worthy, since apparently those decks don't signal to the opponent they're about to win. It's the same reason seething song was banned, since storm is a "no no" archetype. Only Legacy can have that type of deck.

[@kylemckell]

I think Hypergenesis is in the "we could unban it, but why?" The combo isn't fun to use, and it isn't fun to interact with. It could also snipe some tournament with a stroke of luck. See other decks that are somewhat similar in the "all or nothing" camp like Neobrand was

[@williamdrum9899]

One person testing will never be enough compared to all players. If one person playtesting was ever enough, Hogaak wouldn't have existed with its current text

[@bipolarprobe]

Something I find very informative when evaluating the power level of banned cards are the occasional no banlist tournaments that have been run over the years. Since so many cards have been banned years apart from each other and not touched the format after dozens of sets it can be difficult to estimate their power. No banlist tournaments, while too infrequent to establish a true meta, help demonstrate what is most broken. To that point I think dread return is not the most broken thing on the banlist at all. Even with dread return and grave troll both legal dredge decks get outclassed by dark depths, hypergenesis, and top control strategies. No banlist tournaments are super interesting because they show that while most of these cards are far too strong to come off the list in isolation, they duke it out with each other in a interesting way.

[@shivanangel65]

Yah I was surprised by that comment about dread return. While I do agree it is towards the top of the list of hell no it shouldnt be unbanned, I think cards like mental misstep, treasure cruise, and top are higher.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

funny thing is glimpse of nature was considered a bulk rare when kamigawa first came out.

[@Hamlord117]

I got recommended this video, and thought "Wow, this guy sounds exactly like hirumaredx... Oh shit it is!" Sweet to see you are doing MtG content now.

[@bishop5116]

Discovered your original channel as a person with casual interest in YGO, found your Hearthstone channel and that was also great! Now you're doing Magic content? Amazing! I love your passion for TCG games, keep it up!

[@GeeBeeOhThree]

For Hypergenesis, just add the line "when you cast this card, if you cast it from anywhere other than exile, exile it with 3 time counters on it" Or have it be countered, exiled normally, or just flat "cannot be cast except from exile"

[@MrSpleenface]

Cascade already casts from exile though…

[@DrazkurHW]

I would do "If you just removed the last time counter from it, starting with you, each player may[...]". That way if you didn't cast it from suspend, it just whiffs.

[@DrazkurHW]

However, I really like your idea of always auto-suspending it if it wasn't suspended before. Perhaps they could errata the Suspend mechanic so it always interacts that way, so adding something like: "When cast, if you didn't remove the last time counter from it this turn, exile it and put X time counters on it." I think this design would let wizards make and print more suspend cards without fear of it interacting with cascade in such 'cheaty' ways.

[@GeeBeeOhThree]

@@DrazkurHW the one issue with wrrating suspend to work that way is that there are VASTLY more cards with it that also have a normal casting cost, with Suspend as a secondary option. It's the lack of a mana cost that does it, not the suspend part.

[@randomrandom7208]

I don't think Hypergenesis even needs to change, it will still be much less consistent than the living end or footfalls. Yes you can put Emrakul into play on turn 3 but opp can put Archon back and you are dead, they can put chalice on 0 and you get stuck with your useless emrakuls in hand or you can have all the cascades in the world without a good threat to bring into play.

[@Rillant]

Just discovered your channel through this video and already put 3 more of your videos in my video queue. Awesome stuff so far!

[@fakeplaystore7991]

The easiest one to fix is Birthing Pod, so much that WotC already released FOUR versions of the same effect. But none of them with Phyrexian mana as part of their cost...

[@jacksonreynolds7433]

You say that like phyrexian mana is the problem....oh...yeah. You're right

[@fabulous_finn7810]

Miss the pod. Would be nice in a modern overrun with elementals and monkeys. Or at least bring back splinter twin

[@karfsma778]

Rest in Pod. I miss you brother.

[@taylorbates4742]

@@fabulous_finn7810 Twin is much more likely. I really would like to see Twin come back!!

[@goozilla132]

@@taylorbates4742 twin can't come back. Twin would be an extremely oppressive uwr deck that can win once it's turn 5 and you tap out

[@luckilyduckily]

id love to see a video on alternate win conditions in mtg! triskaidekaphobia is a personal favorite card of mine

[@esxivy1944]

Just discovered your channel and I love it so far I am a really casual MTG player, but the way you talk about the cards, the meta, why they are good/bad, it is really interesting to watch 10/10 keep it up :D

[@kennydarmawan13]

1. I find it interesting that just making the card multicolored at 2-mana is weaker than Glimpse, despite the instant speed and added synergy bonus. 2. Interesting how eight Dredge 5 can end up still being too strong. 3. If that's the case, I doubt exiling nontoken creatures or making it costs THIRTEEN creatures would fix it. 4. You can say, the Top is top at its game. 5. Ah yes. Costless cards. I always thought giving it an ability that states its mana value might actually fix it. Like say, "This card's mana value is its Suspend cost."

[@Folfire]

I guess for Suspend cards, it could change the ruling to be a little YGO-esq and say "Suspend cards can only be casted by their Suspend ability".

[@kennydarmawan13]

@@Folfire that'll be... crazy to think of.

[@K1ngOfH34rts]

Another thing to note on Glimpse is that it's oracle text says whenever you CAST a creature spell draw a card, where as Rite of Harmony needs a creature to ETBT making it more susceptible to being interrupted while with glimpse you can counter the creatures all you want but the person who played the glimpse is still gonna draw

[@williamdrum9899]

That wouldn't really fix the issue since you can still cascade into it. They should have just given the card a ridiculous mana cost for that effect. Like 5UU for ancestral visions or 4 for lotus bloom

[@kennydarmawan13]

@@williamdrum9899 not really. It just means you can't chimp it out with cheaper Cascade cards. Gonna need 4-mana to Hypergenesis. Than a 3-mana Cascade.

[@deifiedtitan]

Glad you mentioned the time factor of SDT. I’ve always seen the tournament play concern (and just general negative play experience) as the overall reason it was banned. It was just a boring, miserable experience.

[@zanzaklaus2496]

One of the things with Modern is that when it was made, they explicitly chose to ban cards to make the format a "turn 4 format" instead of a "turn 3 format" like Legacy. Which is why cards that enable turn 3 kills like Glimpse of Nature are banned but cards like Splinter Twin weren't. Of course, this has slowly become less and less true as inconsistent but still viable turn 3 kills have begun to appear in Modern as the cardbase of that format grows. The old adage isn't really true anymore. (More reason as to why Splinter Twin should be unbanned)

[@badvoodoo2097]

Splinter twin was too consistent

[@zanzaklaus2496]

@@badvoodoo2097 Then? Maybe. Now? I'd say no.

[@kurtf3441]

@@badvoodoo2097 I can't see a world where running Splinter Twin, Deceiver Exarch, and Pestermite is better than just running Murktide Regent, Ledger Shredder, and Archmage Charm instead

[@deifiedtitan]

All pseudo-eternal formats tend to degeneracy. I know people complain about Pioneer being the next rotation for Modern, but it actually has to happen if you don’t want everything to be Diet Legacy.

[@zanzaklaus2496]

@@deifiedtitan Legacy at least has a lot of counters to balance things out. The metagame is extremely diverse there. Other formats have a natural downswing. In a decade people will be complaining about Pioneer being stagnant and degenerate. I still feel like what people actually want is Extended (the old 8 year extended, not the "double standard" they did for a while). It plays with a lot of cards but also never grows to the point of devolving. But Extended has a stigma around it. And with WotC pricing a lot of players out right now? Rotating formats don't look very appealing to customers.

[@hoverant7709]

I think the best way to fix hypergenesis would be "you can only cast this card from exile after removing a time counter" that way the only way to play it would only be castable through the suspend

[@GeoQuag]

They could also just make cascade “see” the mana cost of the suspend instead of seeing zero. This would be much more consistent than only doing it for a few cards but would admittedly kill a few decks in the format. However, changing fuse/split cards to count the total mana on both sides instead of just the top is kinda the reason there was a critical mass of playable cards with cmc above 3 anyway so it’s not completely out of character to change such a ruling.

[@algotkristoffersson15]

@@GeoQuag or if that’s not something they want to do, put “this card doesn’t have a converted mana cost” on it so cards that care abouT CMC automatically fail.

[@noehonegger4624]

@@GeoQuag problem the broken suspend cards have no manacosts and i dont wanna write that ruling nightmare if you wanna make the suspend cost be the cmc

[@terryprentice9657]

@@algotkristoffersson15 I think this a great solution. Cards that don't have have a mana cost don't have a mana cost of 0, they just don't have one at all.

[@mcmc9176]

Alright, i member watching your yugioh videos even tho ive never played it, still enjoyed them alot and now that youre doing mtg content well i can't help but smile

[@jp2mocha]

*gasp* the duel logs is doing more mtg content. I started watching you from the is the mtg card ‘good, bad, or broken’ series. Happy to see you do more mtg content

[@delathenleso5793]

Interesting idea for a video series. I can't wait to see what's next!

[@henriquereis7017]

I believe the situation with dread return with dredge is its interaction with bridge from bellow and flame-kin zealot, where you create a giant board with haste and even if dread return is countered you would still have a huge board, since bridge is banned today the ops all spells is more menacing with dread than dredge.

[@aria8677]

Great video, I would love to hear about some cards that could maybe be unbanned (twin, pod or the like) in the next one

[@jamiebruner8463]

I was just looking at the banlist and was wondering why some things were there, great to find this series

[@Shoyro]

Would love to see a similar examination for banned cards in Commander. I've heard quite a few people in my LGS still not understanding why *Golos, Tireless Pilgrim* got banned. Considering it was the Commander for so many decks that it homogenized the scene of Commanders to face against that it was beyond frustrating when you want to face different kinds of Commanders to get deck ideas

[@pumkinswift8263]

The problem is that the Commander banlist doesn't have a coherent philosophy

[@harbear9983]

This is totally wild I found your WOW videos when I started getting into that last year. But I’ve been into magic for years and just discovered your videos but I recognized your voice immediately. I was consistently wondering when you were going to tell me about Lillian voss instead of Liliana vess 😂

[@Xexanos]

Really like this series, hope you keep it up :) Also, I remember that it wasn't that long ago that you didn't really know anything about MtG (the YuGiOh player reacts to MtG card videos). Looks like you got to like the game :D

[@alicetheaxolotl]

Nah, he probably knows a bit more now, but not to this level to explain why everything is banned. Hiru is pretty open about the fact that he just reads off a script that others write for him.

[@krvys7226]

Can't wait until you talk about why Second Sunrise is banned. Dear Editor/Scriptwriter, please assign TheManaLogs some homework, and have him watch the Holiday/ Kibler match. Specifically, explain to him that from about the 15 minute mark, where the "F6" paper is placed, to when they cut back from the completly different game, that is the same TURN.

[@pumkinswift8263]

The banning was a little before my time, but I have to see that natch

[@targetbuddy5]

@@pumkinswift8263 in the finals match of Modern Pro Tour: RTR, Cifka starts combing off with eggs, and his opponent eventually started helping him count his mana out of boredom. Eggs truly was a menace

[@williamdrum9899]

F6 is the shortcut key for "pass priority" on MTGO in case you weren't aware.

[@KingUnKaged]

It's weird coming to this channel from your Yu-Gi-Oh! one, and hearing about how MTG not only balances around games lasting forever, but also explicitly explains that that is their rationale for a decision, 2 things Konami would never do.

[@Lcngopher]

With cascade its specifically until you reveal a nonland card that costs less. Lands have a mana value of zero but arent cast, only played or put onto the battlefield

[@zennistrad]

My man went from being baffled that Golgari Grave-Troll was considered broken to explaining in one of the most concise ways I've ever seen just why it's so good. Character development.

[@alicetheaxolotl]

Tbf, he's just reading off a script. And the scriptwriter on this channel is PumkinSwift, who helped explain the cards in the videos on the other channel

[@williamdrum9899]

Grave troll could be a sorcery that says "You lose the game. Dredge 6" and it would still be in decks. That's how broken Dredge is.

[@assassinmaster1234]

Looking forward to the next installment as a modern only player. Great explanations and info! Ive always wondered myself why some cards see a ban but I cant understand why because I wasnt playing at the time the cards seen play!

[@adisappointmentthatjustexi294]

glimpse of nature is on cast rather then on etb like something like rite of harmony. It may not seem like a huge change but it does have effects. The main reason is if cast a creature with glimpse mean you can still draw in something that helps you continue your combo or at least replace the card in hand if it gets countered while with rite you don't get that card and lose you tempo

[@christopherb501]

Dread Return: a card that describes exactly what everyone will feel is going on should it be unbanned.

[@williamdrum9899]

Biggest problem I have with it is that it doesn't matter what lands you have (if any, there's a deck called Manaless Dredge that abuses this with zero lands in the mainboard.) It really should have required you to control at least 2 swamps to flashback

[@Average_CoD_Clips]

Oh man the Sensei’s Top craze was big when the set came out. Everyone at school was sticking them into random decks for consistency. CounterTopGoyf is always the first thing I think of when I see a Top. That deck name always made me laugh. 😂

[@piranha9411]

Neat. Hope to see this for other formats as well

[@gabeskai]

Why haven't I heard of this channel sooner?? I love Duellogs!!!

[@fwg1994]

There's actually a third cascade deck in Modern around Glimpse of Tomorrow, which shuffles all permanents you own into your deck, and then reveals that many cards and puts all permanents revealed that way onto the battlefield. So the deck just runs a lot of permanents that create tokens when they enter. It can spit out a ton of permanents with powerful ETB effects. Notably drawing cards and generating mana and shuffling the graveyard back into the deck, so the deck can reliably loop Glimpse while generally trending up on number of permanents put into play off of Glimpse, and then repeated Omnath triggers can kill the opponent, where it does 4 damage to the opponent if at least 3 lands enter alongside it. Even if the combo sputters out somehow, there should be enough creatures put on the board to kill the opponent the next turn, as well as Fury triggers to clear the opponent's board. It's a possible turn 3 combo, and consistent turn 4 combo.

[@michaelsauls3674]

I had so much fun with my golgari deck when ravenica first came out

[@chaosbuster1275]

Glimpse of Nature doesn’t just boost Elf decks, it turns them into creature storm decks that cast elves to Court of Calling out a giant Creature like Craterhoof and win early. Also, something you didn’t mention about Hypergenesis. It’s cousin Living End is being played s lot more thanks to a cycle or elementals that can be played for free with Evoke, with the cost of exiling a card, and sacrificing the elemental. Living End turns that into them dying into an upside, leading to the deck putting out a huge board easily, while the elementals screw over your opponent. How powerful Living End is should show what HyperGenesis would be capable of.

[@williamdrum9899]

I had a silly idea for a legacy cheerios deck that uses Edgewalker (which makes all clerics cost WB less) and Glimpse to storm off using free Shadowborn Apostles

[@MightyFoogle]

Whats interesting is, the reason that Crashing Footfalls exists is because the design team wanted to make a card to basically "replace" Hypergenesis. There was no way the card was getting unbanned so they figured they wanted a green card that fit the Suspend only cycle from TSP.

[@HonshouReimu]

Dredge is so good that magic players joke about how the golgari grave troll would still be broken and banned if the only line of text it had was "dredge 6"

[@williamdrum9899]

It could be a sorcery that says "You lose the game. Dredge 6" and it would be nearly unchanged

[@wraith.ferron]

Glimpse of Nature actually allows for rare turn 2 kills. T1 Forest and Nettle Sentinel, into T2 forest, Nettle Sentinel and Heritage Druid, activate Druid to play Glimpse and have 2 mana floating...

[@drmajalis1583]

I disagree about Hypergenesis being better then Footfalls and Living End decks, mainly because Hyper requires you to run a lot of cards you'll basically never be able to cast naturally, meaning you can brick super easily Living End running lots of cycling cards helps the consistency a lot, no cycling card is a brick, they're basically cantrips that fuel your combo Honestly the closest comparison to Hypergenesis i think would be Through the Breach/Goryo's Vengeance, and it could push those decks out, but I think Living End will be fine, Footfalls maybe less so.

[@aegisofhonor]

a much bigger problem with "top" was it's ability to trigger "non-creature spell cast" effects like Prowess. What you could do was make "Top" cost one less with cards like Ethereum Sculptor and suddenly can cast unlimited Tops if you ever have two tops to trigger Prowess on your Monastery Swiftspear and attack in for easy lethal (there were other more consistent ways to pull this off but that was just one example).

[@anotherrogue8371]

You could fix sudden genesis by adding "If there was a time counter on this card during the previous turn:..." before the rest of the spell effect.

[@chancesellars9546]

How am I just now finding this channel. I’ve been wanting to have a magic “logs” channel bc I’ve been wanting to get back into magic.

[@Dopexlizard]

can you do a series explaining the storm scale and some of the mechanics on it?

[@STATICKILO]

Itc cool seeing you do magic related content. Maybey we could see 10 alternative cost cards or something down the line.

[@PrinceK0mali]

Cards like Beck and Rite of Harmony are also 2 color, if they was mono-green then it would still work with heritage druid pretty easily.

[@fernandobanda5734]

If you want to be really inelegant, you could have something like "Hypergenesis can't be cast unless it was suspended."

[@williamdrum9899]

Or just give it a normal mana cost. It's the lack of a mana cost that's the problem here. Make it 4GG normally with suspend 1GG and it's instantly fixed.

[@Arivia1]

A new hirumaredx channel about mtg? Sure I’ll subscribe.

[@Holacalaca]

The problem with the "how can they be unbanned" section is that Magic doesnt do erratas. At best they create a strictly worse version in a later set.

[@Tarragod]

I think one way to fix hypergenesis would be by changing cascade itself. Just make it so cascade can only cast spells that actually have a mana cost, excluding suspend only cards from that rule.

[@williamdrum9899]

Then you'd just use As Foretold instead

[@MrZerodaim]

I think you could reasonably fix Top without actually nerfing it, but through a sidegrade. Just make Top go to the top of your library at the end of turn, instead of immediately. This makes it vulnerable to removal, and it stops Mystic Forge loops, and in exchange it opens the door to untap synergies. Tap to draw 1, with no other cost, can still be very strong in the right deck. Maybe I'd add a once per turn on the look too, but Top is rarely activated twice anyway (mostly after a fetch shuffle, otherwise it's after a spin - meaning it's a new object anyway)

[@MrZerodaim]

Also for Hypergenesis, while you can't alter anything without breaking the design, I think you could add a "If it was suspended" clause to it and unban it. It's ugly, as in a vacuum it is supposed to always be suspended first, and it'd kill all non-cascade synergies too, but this would keep the original design fairly close and allow an unban.

[@Grumpollion]

Would enjoy seeing a similar series on banned cards in Legacy.

[@peterpeterson4800]

Divining Top is also really strong because of fetch lands. Don't like any of the three top cards? Just shuffle them away with your fetch land and take another look for one more mana. Like one of the cards? You can just draw it now with Divining Top. Next turn you draw Divining Top again, play it, potentially look at even more cards, etc. It's basically a Ponder that you can cast every turn, and Ponder is already banned in modern, because it's too good. You can just almost always get the cards you need, which is very powerful for control or combo decks.

[@jamesmcelwain342]

Probably your best video

[@pauldavis4892]

I was thinking about Dread Return. What if you added the requirement "Flashback - Sacrifice Three Creatures, you may only activate this effect if no creatures have entered the battlefield this turn" so that it'd require an additional turn with Narcos, Ghasts and the like which would give opponents an opportunity to wrath the board?

[@ForeverLaxx]

Top was banned only because it slowed the game down considerably, especially when both players are using it. Everything else you mentioned was just incidental. If Top was kept, which its power level said it was fine, then Counterbalance would have been banned instead. Since it was only banned for slowing the game down too much *and* it happened to kick Counterbalance in the knees, it made the most sense to ban.

[@Xhadp]

Dread Return- Actually I think flashback sac 6 could be a good way of nerfing it. Since you have to run at least two set of cards in order to hit the effect. You can't just run 4 Narcomoeba since you would never be able to hit the flashback cost. You would need to slot in another 4 cards to be able to pull off the effect which I think would hurt the deck consistency enough. The card was also really good at allowing jank decks to succeed like four horsemen so it is a shame it got banned. Top is an interesting proposition--Hard to add restrictions onto the card without keeping it simplistic enough. I think nerfing it from look at top three to top two would be good enough. And then you'd haev to nerf the tap effect as well I think.

[@williamdrum9899]

I think the better way to nerf dread return would be to require you to control a certain number of swamps to cast it without paying mana. Maybe 3 or 4?

[@thomasfplm]

About Hypergenesis, one thing that could be done would be a change to the rules, that would also break the other decks you show that use the same mechanic: if a card doesn't have a cost, instead of considering it zero, it should be considered an invalid analysis, this way, any time an effect looks at the cost of a card, those cards would be ignored as if they did not exist, or something like that.

[@MrZerodaim]

Interesting you do that series on Magic cards, given how exceptionally rare errata are in that game. Let's see where that goes, could be fun.

[@Folfire]

It's an interesting exercise for sure

[@Elboy522]

The best tcg content creator with the absolutely worst mispronunciation of words that I've ever heard.

[@Plexiux]

Fix Hypergenesis by modifying the Supspend mechanic where if a card that can only be cast from Suspension is cast from anywhere other than suspension it counters itself.

[@williamdrum9899]

Cascade technically exiles so that wouldn't work

[@tahlialysse]

Honestly, the real "fix" to top is to make the first ability a tap ability instead of costing 1. Locking you into sorting your cards only once per turn and making the top vulnerable when you do so would cut down on the dexterity issue (aka the thing about games going to time) and give it more potential counterplay, which is exactly what the card needs to be legal

[@ulamgexe7442]

What if the ruling about no mana cost cards considered as "0 mana cost" toward cascade was changed? I mean if you consider the mana cost is "none" and therefore the card is ignored by cascade. When I first saw the Living End combo, it didn't make sense to me at first, I think it's not intuitive at all.

[@williamdrum9899]

Essentially those "suspend-only" cards have no mana cost, but their mana value is zero. So any effect that lets you cast them "without paying their mana cost" (that phrase has special meaning in the game's rules) will allow you to cast it. Cascade just happens to be the most reliable since you can build your deck to guarantee it without having to actually draw it.

[@TNCombatMedic]

I’ve been playing magic since ‘96 and was a former JSS player. I remember using moxes in extended, the predecessor to modern. With the current meta in modern I think these cards could be unbanned safely or at least put on a trial period to see how abusive / non-abusive it could be. Dread return, the meta usually runs counterspells / hand disruption. I run graveyard hate main deck on two of my decks, has won me a few games with it. Living end is legal and considered the best deck in modern. Hyper genesis can be cast by cascade and still be countered once it’s on the stack. Just like living end. I think this card was banned preemptively. Umazawa’s jitte should also be on a trial to be unbanned, the meta is different from the affinity scare of 03-04. It cost 2 & 2 to equip, even with pure steel paladin’s ability to move it around; control is quite prevalent. I also think splinter twin should be on the trial list, I survived the chaos that it caused when it was created. Mengu & kannister have been doing trial runs for potential cards that could be unbanned & splinter twin was one. He lost the majority of his games with it. WoTC printing force of negation has shifted the format beyond what I’d ever thought I’d see. A new force of will in modern. For my last card(s) I’d make the compelling case to unban the artifact lands, Wotc already printed new artifact lands in the format. Affinity isn’t winning in every high level format. Chrome mox was banned & I use to love playing affinity in mirrodin block. I’ve personally play tested in modern with UW affinity with seat of the synod & still slow. UW control, omnath, living end, and murktide still roll over it. I’m just advocating for a trial run of older banned cards to be unbanned, selected on a card by card basis.

[@williamdrum9899]

If you have to maindeck graveyard hate, something needs a ban.

[@pitadude9836]

Fixing hypergenesis requires two changes. Make cascade not exile the cards, and then add the text to hypergenesis "if this was not cast from exile, counter it"

[@williamdrum9899]

As Foretold: Bonjour

[@tylerpendergast7899]

Is that a command zone font/color scheme over the wording?

[@richiefoerster7574]

The mox should be sac'd, or have a withering function?

[@benjaminkonikoff2026]

With senseis top(from the wording and my understanding) it’s activation is to tap it. So couldn’t you instant speed interaction in response?(still should be banned)

[@khurgar8120]

The easiest way to fix hypergenesis (albeit by ruining both crashing footfalls and living end) is to rerule cascade to not hit spells without a mana cost.

[@dracish123456789]

I would like to see cards removed from banlist that once were on the banlist. As well as standard and (extended a defunct format) bancards throughout the years.

[@jonathankolberg2706]

To fix #5 Could you not put text on it that says: "If this card was not cast from suspend, pay GGG or it is countered"?

[@dorping_Wolf]

fix hypergenesis... 1. make the opponent place cards down first. - problem would be, he could just place 0, since he knows you gonna crush him, but maybe ... 2. + and force him to play at least 1 card. - he can choose to play more cards, and when he assumes, you only have one big Bossmonster in hand, he could profit from putting more than one card down. another idea... pick a random card in hand to put down. you must have at least 2 cards in hand.

[@fernandobanda5734]

The order of placing the cards doesn't matter. What matters is that you're putting super broken cards on the battlefield while your opponent is stuck with whatever their deck could cast.

[@jacktodd338]

What’s the music in the background? It’s wonderful.

[@cabby007]

randomly load the video from suggestions, hear the all to familiar voice of hirumaredx......instant sub

[@Haimi-fv5xj]

I get that you have adopted the same structure as for yugioh. But keep in mind, there are almost no erratas in magic, except when they do an obvious mistake like Felidar Guardian. However, magic does like to release fixed versions of some cards. So you might wanna add a side note to the “how can this be fixed” part.

[@cuttlefish6839]

They never errated felidar guardian they just banned it from pioneer and standard

[@Haimi-fv5xj]

@@cuttlefish6839 I'm pretty sure they did. It used to be able to flicker itself. The Naheeli combo was already known at the time, but it wasn't dealt with instantly. That's how I remember it at least.

[@williamdrum9899]

You're thinking of Hostage Taker, which without the errata would generate infinite ETBs by itself

[@powergamingcentral5792]

Fix top without destroying cb control is taking out a move from yu gi oh (and new magic sets) and make each ability only activate once each turn. That gets you out of the citadel problem but lets you keep the fair control deck utility.

[@daredaemon8878]

I think there's a way to fix hypergenesis, it's a little unprecedented but in theory it should work perfectly well with the rules of MTG. Add a line of text that says something like: While not on the stack, the Mana Value of Hypergenesis is (however much it needs to be.)

[@williamdrum9899]

Why not just give it an actual casting cost then? Just make it something really bad like 5GG

[@Epzilon12]

What’s funny is some cards in magic could really be fixed by adding the “hard once per turn” from yugioh. You wouldn’t be able to loop diving top a ton if it had that Also, I think you fix suspend + cascade cards by adding a universal rule that just states suspend cards have to be casted via their suspend and not in any other ways, but that sort of heavy handed fix doesn’t really seem like a change magic would use.

[@algotkristoffersson15]

There are cards that have suspended as an optional alternate way of being cast, those would break if you did that, a smarter idea would be to have cards with no mana cost have, no mana cost, so instead of cmc 0 they just wouldn’t have a CMC

[@Epzilon12]

@@algotkristoffersson15 interesting, thanks for telling me that. I suppose other than changing what I said to effectively saying they can only be casted via ways listed on their card, what you said makes perfect sense. You could also just assign them higher CMCs than 0, but that would probably just break other, different things than giving them no CMC at all. Cheers!

[@birunboles6883]

What is to good mean in terms of win % . is it like 60% or higher or like 80%+

[@tachi1579]

for glimpse, just use that new mechanic, "only once per turn" really would make that card powerful, but manageable

[@williamdrum9899]

It would be unplayable. It's either broken or poopoo, there's no in-between. Kind of like Cannon Soldier in Yugioh

[@IC-23]

On #10 that will kill the card. A very similar combo existed in a other card game (Elder Scrolls Legends) [mana system works like hearthstone but the default cap is 12] With Disciple of Namira(5 cost 3/3 when a friendly creature dies draw 1 card) and Thieves Guild Fence(3 cost 3/2 cards you draw cost 1 less) where your entire deck conists of cheap cards some so a 2 cost discount makes ever other creature in their deck cost 0, they'd also have a another card that dealt 1 damage and healed you for 1 when you play a 0 cost card so once they got their engine going it was near impossible to win being the game's only turn 3-4 OTK When they nerfed Disciple of Namira the use of that card went from use in that OTK and scattered use in token decks to none at all since it became too slow. Obviously the triggers are different but magic is a much faster game than TESL and an end of turn delay made the card unplayable which might also translate to Magic.

[@jayredharpstudios9672]

It would be interesting to see all banned cards in commander or the other formats

[@starduststriker8792]

one thing id like to see is "top 5 worst cards that go +1" obviously card advantage is important, but stuff like mind rot doesnt really see play anywhere outside of limited or commander

[@Come_Along_Bitey]

You could /sort of/ fix hypergenesis by not allowing it to be cast from the library "if this spell was cast from anywhere except exile, counter it"

[@bertoldopleari7779]

magic is way better than yugi! I'm so glad you branched out! Good luck with this new channel!

[@crondog]

Personally, I think Hypergensis is probably worse than Rhinos or Living End. The cyclers in Living End draw into the cascaders so the deck is stupidly consistent. Rhinos is strong because besides the cascade package it's basically a respectable tempo/midrange deck. The way both decks are built the cascade cards are essentially one card combos. Hypergensis is a two card combo that would require you to play probably 8 or more actual do nothing cards. The cascade restrictions mean you can't run cantrips to find your combo and the requirement to run all the big monsters means that you probably can't really play a midrange game if your combo fails. Putting a big dude into play doesn't even really end the game like it does Legacy.

[@tankbear2402]

Hi. Nice Video. A list why card x is banned in commander would be great. It is my favorite format

[@simonteesdale9752]

If there are any bans you are unsure of, I could answer them here, as I know the banlist pretty well. A video would be interesting though.

[@williamdrum9899]

* Prophet of Kruphix - your turn effectively never ends. You can tap out and still be at full power during every players' turn. * Iona - Can lock nonblue players out of the game far too efficiently. White, red, and green are completely screwed. Black had oblivion strike but it's a sorcery. * Flash - Combos far too well with Protean Hulk to win the game on turn 2 * Sundering Titan - Land destruction that punishes basic lands much more than nonbasics (a backwards concept to begin with), which can be easily recurred thanks to being an artifact creature rather than a sorcery * Leovold - Impossible to interact with without losing card advantage, can be played turn 3 and lock everyone out of the game by turn 4 with Teferi's Puzzle Box * Hullbreacher - See Leovold * Primeval Titan - Generates a ton of value over and over again. Two of ANY land from library (four if you give it haste) the turn you play it is obscenely good ramp. * Gifts Ungiven - Pretty much lets you assemble any instant win combo right away. * Trade Secrets - Ever seen two players with Consecrated Sphinx? Yeah imagine that except 3 mana * Lutri - Nearly every deck meets its companion requirement by default. This gives blue/red decks an extra card the other colors don't have. Now, you could (correctly) argue that there are far more broken things than this. But my understanding is stuff like Thassa's Oracle/Demonic Consultation aren't banned because there are people who like cEDH and the banlist is geared for casual play. Rather than just ending the game immediately (Flash notwithstanding) these cards take a fair game and drain all sense of agency and fun from the other players.

[@marcoottina654]

Hypergenesis: "you may cast this card only by its Suspend mechanic". That would fix it

[@blueredlover1060]

Realistically, Hypergensis and all the suspend cards could have a line of text with this card's mana value is equal to its suspend cost. Which would hurt Living End as well, since you couldn't do the cheat it out, but would balance the cards a bit better. However, the real issue with it isn't the card itself. It's cascade, which is a 9 on the storm scale, iirc.

[@williamdrum9899]

I think they just should have had a big mana cost that isn't worth it like for example 6GG for hypergenesis. Even if the suspend cost was its mana value cascade would still work.

[@blueredlover1060]

@@williamdrum9899 You're correct, but the slowness of cascade at 5 instead of 3, in a format as heavily removal focused as modern, means that the deck rarely, if ever, truly goes off, as they can in the current game.