Final Fantasy's Return to Turn Based Will Be MASSIVE

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I re-evaluate the viability of turn based in Final Fantasy--and why action isn't the only path forward for the series.
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#metaphorrefantazio #finalfantasyviirebirth #finalfantasy

[@TheNightSkyPrince]

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[@Evidancer]

6:25 action games also existed in the NES and SNES era. If they really wanted to do action back in the day, they could have done that every time. At the very least with the jump to playstation 1. So even if they say so, I don't think anything of wanted to be action is true. However, I think what they need to do is making FF7R classic mode to a proper atb/turnbased mode. So the player can choose between turnbased and actionbased combat. And there probably would be many people who would like to play both in a row. But the current idea of classic mode is just lame for everyone.

[@Max-qd2lf]

I loved the persona games but the catch 'em all is such a turn off for me

[@BBQ_Ch1cken]

Getting this video sponsored by Atlus feels like such a power move lmao

[@dudemcguy1227]

Square Enix: "Feedback Unclear. So we've decided that FF17 will be a solo-charater action game, developed from the ground up in a new engine. PS6 exclusive, and will feature no party members, no RPG elements, and will be full sci-fi with epic spaceship battles." 6 months later after release Square Enix: "What do the fans even want FF to be? They are always so divided. Perhaps FF18 should be a battle royale game."

[@1ProAssassin]

You don't sound very excited for Call of Fantasy: Final Royalis. It's the prequel to Call of Fantasy: Final Frontier!

[@smsff7]

Then FF19 will be some sort of NFT collection game,

[@pipz420]

Give me the party member pokemon catcher that is the trust system from final fantasy combined with a modern version of steal for a thief and you will sell 15 million copies. Grand Theft Chocobo would be lit.

[@TheRealist1.]

Sounds like a winner.

[@porkyvonchop-zd8xn]

nah it will be metrovania 😆😆😁😁

[@studi0robb]

i am on the autistic spectrum, and action games frustrate me...i get so overwhelmed when things get crazy. i loved FF because it *was* turn based. turn base allowed me to breathe and to absorb the character dev going on. moving to action combat makes it very difficult for me. granted, i'm in the minority and this is my issue, but i certainly won't complain if they go back to turn base.

[@hischransen8069]

Self Diagnosed Gen Zs....

[@guruthosamarthruin4459]

For decades, I've been arguing about Turn-Based sales versus Action sales, and it never fails that there's someone that argues, "just look at the average sales of Turn-Based games compared to the average sales of Action games, it's really that simple". They COMPLETELY ignore the budgets involved in each side. They see a AAA game drastically outsell a 2D game, and think, "it must be because the 2D game is Turn-Based!" **facepalm** And what a "strange" coincidence that the one Turn-Based series that used to be AAA, also used to OUTSELL Action games...

[@MacUser2-il2cx]

Thing is that Square used to have different series for each sub genre. You had the Mana series, the Tactics series, ect. There's room for all of them. Putting all your money on one game though is a huge gamble.

[@superbuneary8819]

Just played Baldurs gate recently and I'm telling you right now, their turn based play style should be something square takes inspiration from. Ever since playing that I can't stop daydreaming of an FF6 remake which has the same gameplay as baldurs gate.

[@ashleysmith2512]

turn based is not dead and wont die unless you let it die. its what people want they just stuck in the old design of how tb works

[@jdzspace33]

The irony of asking "can a turn based game sell in 2024", then you promote a turn based game that will do well, from a studio who had made more legendry turn based games in the last decade than square has. The answer is yes, yes it can, and it will

[@WillieSlackmer]

Which also sold a million in a day.

[@hartfantom]

Square: Octopath, Dragon Quest remake, Live A Live, Triangle Strategy, You: being a bish 🌬️

[@jdzspace33]

@hartfantom none of those are even in the galaxy as Persona 4,Persona 5,Persona 3: Reload and Metaphor: ReFantazio. The games you mentioned are either remasters or mid at BEST. The only A tier game is Octo, triangle is below average. My point stands

[@Yokai_Yuri]

​@@jdzspace33Persona are old games that keep re-releasing more than Kingdown hearts remixes. They literally have P3, and P5, and now Refantazio, but outside of that, they have nothing but smaller, limited and safer projects like Unicorm overlord. The only reason they thrive is because Square is hellbent on "modernizing" FF. If Square goes nuts and make a full 3D remake of FF6 with full turn based RPG elements, then the Atlus games juat go back to their corner doing their own thing.

[@pipz420]

@@jdzspace33 I am not play any of those games. You are not the same audience as me.

[@jareddrake8656]

Imagine if FF16 was a party and turn-based game. Having Clive, Jill, Cid, Joshua, Gav, Mid, and Dion as your team.

[@beebs_magoo]

Or even just letting you play as them and giving them skill trees and health. Variability in parties was what gave FF games so much playability.

[@NAzo.]

You forgot to also add in not pretending to be an RPG but having actual RPG mechanics, quests. Having elementals in all aspects and status ailments. The ability to use airship maybe. Being able to actually explore, having actual more assortment of different mobs and have actual ability to do Kaiju battles without QTE or a smarter way. Having the correct end game boss instead of some nobody. Having an actual story that doesn't go from great to terrible to boring to becoming good to getting better to this is crap fanfiction.

[@jimmeyotoole]

😢 that would of been amazing

[@ganshrio7336]

They gimped the game due to "accessibility" concerns. They were probably polling candy crush players lmao.

[@CrayonEater2003]

FFXVI pixel demake would go hard

[@johnathangodbolt]

Honestly, I've always viewed this "modern" (or should I say, present) move away from turn-based gameplay to be no different than it would've been back in the 90's. I guess the equivalent, back then, would've been a shift to either Zelda : A Link To The Past's style or your typical side-scrolling action/platformer.... Neither approach would've gone over well back then. And if trying to "fit in for more money" wouldn't have worked then, I really don't understand why they thought it would now. In other words - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Square carved out for themselves a niche that few could match (not NONE, just... VERY FEW), and many moreso loved - and STILL DO. In my opinion, I think FF15 and 16 would've fared much better if they were simply just 2 games completely separate from the franchise. Like Castlevania : Lord's Of Shadow (1 and 2... maybe not so much the second one). Great games, but not at all representative of what the franchise is, and was built ON PURPOSE to BE and STAND OUT AS, throughout the years. Now, I enjoyed those titles and genuinely appreciated what they brought to the table, but there was a disconnect. Sticking some chocobos and classic music theme collectibles in there does not a Final Fantasy make. That kind of complete overhaul/departure in gameplay/presentation is not "innovation", it's an eradication of "identity", regardless of how well it's executed, or how pretty it looks. Is Final Fantasy becoming the Ship of Theseus? I hope not.

[@michaellane5381]

Honestly the part that gets me is Square has the perfect system to explain or test tha theory... And it hasn't panned out. FF has no numbered mainline sequels, so they could easily make game 1 Turn based then game 2 Action and split the budget on graphical assets, it would be a much safer proposition and they could just call these secondary games the FFA series so instead of "FF13, FF13-2" you have FF13, FFA 13, then you can spinoff from there. FF 7 did this kind of thing and most of the turn based spinoffs have not sold as well(though that would partly be due to exclusivity as well).

[@DamaNovus]

it's called Turn Based because it's BASED the new Romancing Saga 2 demo is also really good

[@pandaman1331]

The combat reminded me a lot of Octopath Traveler

[@nightblade1102]

Call me a pessimist, but the main line final fantasy isn't going back to turn based.

[@squalleonkeneddyheart4191]

It's ok really. I've Outgrown FF after 15. That shit made me scream "that's it! I'm done with this shit lol"

[@TheAnimatedGamer]

Call me a pessimist, but I don't think many will jump on it if they ever did go back to being turned based

[@figureviews]

at least a spin off title will be good

[@G4kan260]

It will Probably be a blend of both real time combat and turn based

[@Mark_CTN]

I would have said the same thing before the continued success of games like persona. Ive started to think aftef FF7r and FF16 not doing as well as they hoped i think they might be playing with the idea of going back. If expedition 33 does well it cant hurt either

[@Ron1840]

No, this is just trend setting. Atlus isn't successful because Metaphor is turn based, they're successful because they commit to an identity. Rebirth is fine, keep it and iterate and ignore everything else. Accept you won't appeal to everyone Not everyone likes Persona and will buy Metaphor, and Atlus is okay with that

[@fahriza88]

Yea and its not like Metaphor having Black Myth Wukong-like sales figures.. even tho it could be considered successful.. reverting to turn based alone isnt going to save final fantasy

[@azulion]

Turns out turn based is one of the core pillars of FF's identity.

[@ForTheViolence]

Turn based games are easier to develop and let you focus more on the other aspects that make jrpgs epic.

[@pandaman1331]

Correct. It has nothing to do with turn-based or action based. If you produce a great game, people will purchase it. Though I would say that the FF7 Remaeks and FF16 are great games. SE marketing strategy was the main problem in my opinion.

[@Vartazian360]

FF7R's combat system is the perfect system imo.. just add onto it and use that with a new FF that is not exclusive to one console.

[@Evidancer]

What they need to do is making the classic mode to a proper atb/turnbased mode. So the player can choose between turnbased and actionbased combat. And there probably would be many people who would like to play both in a row. But the current idea of classic mode is just lame for everyone.

[@Acesinz]

@@Vartazian360 we need turn based

[@qownsqud3207]

multiplat wont solve anything lol

[@Akkumako]

Nah turn based won't magically save them.

[@Armoterra]

I deeply disagree. It was pure mindless hack and slash. Think about it this way: if there are dozens of damage indicators that you barely pay attention to because they’re too many to keep track of, then all what’s left is: “press attack, make the health bar go down.”

[@Janfey]

Final Fantasy 10 had best turn based combat ever. Also, it's Pokemon, not Pokeymon

[@MrWhis-fe5hs]

I'd recommend you play the trails games they dont look amazing but it's a serious cross between FFX battle system and persona

[@israelruiz8706]

I feel like its riding on expedition 33. If that game succeeds. Then you bet your sweet booty that square enix will make the next entry level somewhat turn base

[@RemiDestiny]

Wasn't that the game where people over a certain age die? like over the age of 33? XD The story is abit ominous to me.

[@KieranHamilton-y7s]

@@RemiDestinyExactly it’s very FF. in fact FFX originally was supposed to have a similar story. FF is not a happy clappy franchise. It’s always been about sacrifice, consequences and fighting against impossible odds

[@wohdinhel]

ngl i think atlus’ juice team should team up with square enix for a turn based FF17. there is literally no reason for them not to do another turn-based FF; every single argument they have provided against it has been UTTERLY OBLITERATED by multiple counterexamples which blow all expectations out of the stratosphere. it is well past time for FF to be FF again. also i STRONGLY disagree with the notion that FF’s turn-based gameplay was just “tolerated”. yes, there is an audience that was alienated from trying games like FF by the fact that they are turn-based, BUT THERE IS ALSO AN EQUIVALENT AUDIENCE WHO IS SIMILARLY ALIENATED BY ACTION GAMES, and throwing your existing (and feverishly devout) audience under the bus on such a gamble when there’s no guarantee that the game would resonate with the action-based audience is and always was INSANE.

[@Swillo]

Honestly most impressive thing is that people think that just being turn based = sales or just being action = sales. There is tons of turn based games and action games released every single year that sell low. Not that FF shouldn’t go back to turn based but if people are really saying the difference between games selling and not selling is being turn based or action, that’s wild af.

[@mangekyou9722]

@@Swillo I swear, people act like action game was such a bad decision to begin with. It wasn't, and it actually made sens when they did it. If we talk about sells only, there is so much more to take into consideration as to why it didn't make expectations i wouldn't even know where to start. That is something for square to figure out, but people thinking "haha they failed they're going back to turn based for 17" are delusionnal lol

[@Swillo]

@@mangekyou9722 definitely. When people hype up a game like metaphor probably the last thing they even mention is the combat. They talk about How immersed they are in the world, the story, the characters, etc it’s a total package experience. People are not playing Metaphor strictly for turn based combat, although for some that could be a catalyst, but what keeps them invested is because of the satisfaction that the total package provides. SE simply needs to improve the total package experience regardless if it’s turn based or action. There is actually some massive irony too that usually the best thing about modern FF games is the combat. The bulk of the complaints of stuff like rebirth for example are completely unrelated to the combat and related to every single other category of the game.

[@agamersinsanity]

@@mangekyou9722 i think action combat fits the RPG genre. Turn based won't solve any problems. I think the action combat in Rebirth was pretty good, but one thing that I didn't like was Gigachad with his challenges and the insane achievements they added with the game.

[@Ukaran]

@Swillo Rebirth is still among the top 10 best sellers of 2024.

[@soulhuntah8833]

I find it odd you didn't talk about Octopath Traveler here, if Square Enix can push out Octopath Traveler, a beautiful new IP using the exact turn based style of the old FF games and get 3 million sales, imagine what they could do with the Final Fantasy brand on it. I am BEGGING them to go back to turn based, i simply do not enjoy action RPG's and every FF game thats comes out now feels further away from what made me fall in love with the FF series in the first place

[@cloud1stclass372]

VII Remake’s combat system in an open world Final Fantasy that has a similar aesthetic to FFIX/ Zelda BOTW. Released day and date multi-platform. I think the world would be all over that.

[@Ukaran]

The world is already all over Rebirth, and that's why it's among the top 10 best sellers of 2024, and the biggest candidate for GOTY. Rebirth's only mistake was it's exclusivity to PS5.

[@cloud1stclass372]

@@Ukaran Hey, don’t get me wrong: Rebirth is a masterpiece and one of the best games I’ve ever played in my life. I’m just saying, in regards to the topic of Square bringing back turn based combat (the point of this video), I think my post still holds water.

[@D0d_]

I'm incredibly excited about Expedition 33 and having a blast with Metaphor right now. Turn based is the refresh we need in the video game industry, back to basics with modern tech, best of both worlds. I agree with you though, the hybrid formula Square Enix developed with FF7R is absolutely incredible and should be preserved.

[@agamersinsanity]

Expedition 33 looks quite promising with the turn based, but they added more elements to it so it won't get so stale. FF7R combat is pretty solid.

[@paxtenebrae]

FF7 remake games are real time with pause. When I started playing Remake, it struck me how funny it was how secretly similar their combat system was to a classic western real time with pause systems from games like classic Baldur's Gate, Pillars of Eternity, Planescape: Torment and especially Knights of the Old Republic. I do think FF7 remake's RTwP variant is actually very great. Once I got used to it, I did indeed feel like I was in control of the whole party. That's the thing I don't love about FF's 15 and 16 is that I don't feel like I'm controlling a party of heroes, but one hero with support NPCs. But yeah, it's not wholly unique unless the only RPGs you've ever played come out of Japan. They just finally invented a thing western RPGs have been doing since the early 90s in their own flashier and more console-focused way. That said, I finally got to really dig in on FF XVI and, taken on its own terms, I think that game is absolutely outstanding. It's a truly badass videogame and only a kind-of-ok Final Fantasy. But particularly as someone who always struggled with execution in Devil May Cry and Bayonetta, I felt the appeal of stylish action combat in full force for the first time in that game and me likey... So whichever way they go in the future, I think I'll be pretty happy myself. Everyone else feel free to fight it out though.

[@RadishAcceptable]

It'd be nice if that was actually true. You can't issue move commands and things like that to every single character, however. It's like a semi-RTWP. They could (and probably should) go all in on that and let the players control the entire team at once, like classic Balder's Gate, or Dragon Age: Origins.

[@paxtenebrae]

@@RadishAcceptable Yeah, agreed.

[@Dayv018]

Honestly XV's combat walked so Remake/Rebirth's could run. XVI is obviously very different only being a single character to control, and frankly I thought the different eikon setups would enable more variety...but in reality if you want to be efficient a lot of fights ended up looking the same at least for certain portions. Still very fun and interesting, just not as much as I was hoping it would be. Agree completely on Remake and Rebirth combat, though. I was extremely worried at first prior to Remake, but actually getting to play it was something else entirely. Superb combat.

[@superbuneary8819]

They should just copy baldurs gate 3 's turn based combat system. Heck, just copy or take inspiration from baldurs gate 3 in general.

[@Dayv018]

@@superbuneary8819 Definitely a great game to take inspiration from, I don't know if I'd want a complete mirror of that turn based system...but be nice to have a turn based option from them. While also continuing with hybrid type from Rebirth.

[@hayabusa09]

It’s clear as day. It’s plain to see. To everyone, But you and me. Turn based games. Have now finally, Come to be, A fantasy.

[@OskarXCI]

You can put the blame for FF turning to action Tetsuya Nomura. He has been chasing the action gameplay ever since Advent Children came out. The playerbase only has themselves to blame for being massively hyped for Versus XIII/XV for almost 10 years. Square Enix perceived that as people wanting more action, less turn based.

[@poleon2003]

I mean people love Nomura as a character and monster designer but people REALLY HATE him the most as a story writer like he does with the Kingdom Hearts series lmao

[@redcloud16]

Nomura used to be one of my idols; always a fan of his artwork (that is still fantastic); but over the years he became a George Lucas to me. FANTASTIC when he has others temper his direction; wacky and insane when left to his own devices. Kingdom Hearts is, for all intents and purposes, a flawless game imo; tight and self-contained exquisite narrative; one of my all time favorite combat systems of all games, fantastic art direction, sublime model and animation work; KH2 was more of the same, and while kh2's combat was better (by virtue of having more maneuverability) i found the narrative quality starting to dip. Dissida PSP is one of my top 5 fave games of all time, for nearly all the reasons i think Kh1 is nearly perfect (not surprising since it was by the same team; but its story is a bit wacky and convoluted). AND THEN, KH3 was a huge disappointment for me. Versus13 development was a trainwreck; 15 was a monument to unmet potential (still enjoyed it for the most part but...). FF7R is not my cup of tea. I was one of those people eagerly following Versus13 for a decade. :(

[@poleon2003]

@@redcloud16 Yeah and funny thing is of KH1 is that it was originally gonna planned to have a simple Disney like story but it was changed as FF creator Hironobu Sakaguchi said to Nomura that a story like that isn't good enough and would be way too simple for the average Final Fantasy fan so Nomura changed the story to help appeal more to Final fantasy fans

[@redcloud16]

@@poleon2003 did not know that!!

[@Shainssss]

Octopath travelers sold well there is still a want as long as it is done right.

[@Kageravager]

I'm playing through Octopath Traveler right now as I see this video. I must say that, there's definitely still a market for turn-based games out there and that part of it will be dependent on the themes and level of maturity in the games themselves.

[@TerenceLight]

I’m replaying OT1 myself - got it on PS5 after first playing it on Switch back in ‘20. I would love to see SE’s side IP’s (like Octopath, Triangle Strategy, Bravely Default) get a bit more love and support.

[@Kageravager]

@@TerenceLight Same here! Those IPs might not be a household name in the same vein as Final Fantasy or even Dragonquest, but I honestly think better marketing could help things along.

[@johnk.2167]

How is OT compared to final fantasy? Was debating picking it up

[@superbuneary8819]

I can't believe people be saying turn based are dead when you have Baldurs gate 3 that wrecked the entire industry. Their turn based combat is the best along with Warhammer 40k, final fantasy should take notes or inspiration because it's going to be amazing if they just take inspiration from those games.

[@blackmanwithcomputer]

​@@superbuneary8819BG3 lives on its RPG mechanics, not TB combat. The game truly allowing you to do almost anything is what sells. The TB combat just makes combat less of a priority to allow for that direction. Even when FF was TB, it wasn't anything close to the level of RPG as anything that Larian has made.

[@cookiemonstasharp9543]

When I wanna relax, a turn based game is best. Even if it's a "hard" boss, I'm still just sitting there thinking. Not sweating over my controller trying to figure why tf is that hit-box so big.

[@winzoln]

I'm sorry but how could I pay attention to anything else when I saw the name "Teedussy".

[@adamshalashaska5698]

You know what will make me forgive Squareenix, if after FF7 remake part 3 comes out, they made a 1 to 1 remake of FF7 using the assets from the remake series and have the option to do traditional turnbase combat

[@NoctLightCloud]

considering they're rebooting, remastering and remaking stuff all the time (ff3, ff4, Tactics Ogre, all ff HD remasters, bringing back Versus, alleged ff9 remake), why not?

[@pandaeyez]

FF7 Remake is turn based though. It literally uses the same ATB system from the original. The only difference is that you can move around and block. I can always tell when people did not play or learn to play 7 Remake properly.

[@adamshalashaska5698]

@@pandaeyez just adding an atb bar doesn’t make it a traditional turnbase game. Remake is still an action game.

[@Asuraxshin]

@@adamshalashaska5698 og 7 wasn't traditional turn base game either its literality the same system remake/rebirth uses but slower. and it was designed that way because of hardware limitations.

[@quickpawmaud]

I love FF7 Remake and Rebirth combat the most out of any jrpg I have played. I would hope FF would continue with that system. Turn based can be really fun but it is also really easy to make it boring. It is a very fine line to walk to make turn based work in the traditional jrpg style. If I am was going to play a turn based game I would much prefer a tactics game like Fire Emblem or something like Baldur's Gate 3. The movement and positioning aspect makes turn based a lot more fun to me.

[@gdavesd]

Square should really remake Legend of Dragoon. The game is basically what expedition is trying to deliver as rhythm command rpg

[@omnislushie1230]

4:47 is they key point here. FF16 (or even Rebirth's) "disappointing" sales are not due to it not have turn based combat, and I don't think just making either of them turn based would have made a big difference in sales. Console exclusivity, lack of playable and customizable party members, and toned down exploration and RPG mechanics likely played a much bigger role in FF16's lack of sales.

[@sneakykangarooman442]

Yeah I would have bought Rebirth in a heart beat if I had a PS5 and I'm probably going to get one soon purely to pay Rebirth. I think its effectiveness as a console seller has been underestimated.

[@luttenio]

I stopped ff16 half way through because it was a button basher with cooldowns. Not what i want from a final fantasy. If i want that i will play devil may cry or bayonetta....

[@NeumaSeven]

Couldn’t agree more. Rebirths battle system at its core is fucking amazing but there wasn’t enough ways to build my party and it felt like it lacked any real character building and just had stuff tacked on.

[@OraclEyes]

​@luttenio you do you, but ff in my opinion is story and characters

[@mydogbuddy07]

@@sneakykangarooman442 FF7 Rebirth will probably come to PC at some point (Like FF16) I wouldn't expect it to go to Xbox though given past history.

[@LisaSamaritan]

Does a Square Enix game ever meet sales expectations? Wasn't that why they sold of all their western IP? Square Enix always believe they will sell more, constantly sell less and always become disappointed...

[@Acesinz]

Please bring turn based back!!!!

[@Davethawave1999]

Tell me. Would FF16 the way it is now, make you like it more with a turn based system. Really? Combat in FF games takes a back seat to characters, story, music, environments, systems like Materia/Magicite/Gambit/Espers, exploration, optional secret bosses/areas. Those are what are important to me in a FF game. Square needs to focus more on that. Who cares what type of combat it is if those other things are great.

[@anton8964]

​@@Davethawave1999 disagree. since I'm child. then I hear Main story FF, I will think about Turn base. People replay FF game and they not replay FF game only to see the story twice or third time. it is because the combat and how many secret it hide. stop assuming your opinion the only correct one.

[@godlike69r]

even the option for it would be huge. let the button mashers have there gameplay and us turn based lovers have what we want

[@bogroll1881]

@@Davethawave1999 The point is millions of gamers don't know the answer to this because they prefer turn based tried the demo and didn't like the combat and never bought the game

[@anton8964]

@@bogroll1881 totally agree. See the demo, dislike it and never bought the game. I'm even someone that you can call Square's fans. See it fail, celebrate it. LOL

[@ViewportPlaythrough]

and this is why i agree with one of Frustrated Jacob's point during the last podcast, let the creative divisions do what they specialize in. ie, one division doing turn based, another doing 7r like battle system, another action based etc etc.. but the biggest part is still finding the "new sakaguchi". they really should pull everything on hold till they have the answer to that.

[@Pope-of-Comics]

"Sux cuz it's turn based" is a Game Informer outlook and at that was the start of game magazines being a joke.

[@KieranHamilton-y7s]

Aren’t they officially dead now?

[@guruthosamarthruin4459]

I strongly believe that the mainstream path-forward for AAA and mid-tier RPGs is the ability to CHOOSE your genre (like in Trails Through Daybreak and Metaphor Refantazio). Someone at Square (I don't remember who) even recently mentioned that they want to give "more ways to play", after the disappointing sales of 16 and 7 Rebirth. I strongly suspect they are going to go down the same route as Falcom and Atlus.

[@kyoopihd]

Crystal Project is a great example of a retro-style, turn-based RPG that can weave in more modern elements and complexity to make it feel still like classic turn-based combat along with being new and fresh.

[@Messypapa]

ive always been saying final fantasy should be turned based. its just what SE are best at. Look for example at Octopath traveler or bravely default. both have their own unique take on turn based combat and they offer amazing stories and roleplaying options (job(mixing)) for example). its ironic how in their effort to appeal to a wider audience SE seemed to fine to alienate their loyal fanbase. i hope they wake up and return to form when they see how the rumored turn-based ff9 remake pops off

[@Acesinz]

100% agree

[@LuniDragon]

Bro, if that's true, and they remain faithful to the story. I will cry tears of joy. It's my favourite game ever, and if I could play it again with updated graphics and voice-acted. That would be so freakign dope. Alas. I'm afraid, given Squar's track record, It'll be another ten years until that happens. And that is IF the rumors are true about the remake.

[@Asuraxshin]

other than ffx final fantasy started to move away from turn base with ff4. Hardware limitations is why the ATB systems was created in the first place to make the games have more action.

[@efebdn378]

Wholeheartly agree that Retrilogy's combat is the way to go for the future of the franchise. But at the same time, I wouldn't really mind them going back to turn based. I guess what I actually want is for SE to be more consistent, keep iteratating and evolving whatever system they choose in the end.

[@patriotsfan122480]

I could see them doing mainline with Retrilogy combat, but having a smaller AA title as a turn-based title with FF in the title.

[@Evidancer]

What they need to do is making FF7R classic mode to a proper atb/turnbased mode. So the player can choose between turnbased and actionbased combat. And there probably would be many people who would like to play both in a row. But the current idea of classic mode is just lame for everyone.

[@Dayv018]

@@Evidancer If they could actually pull that off, I think it would be a win for everyone. It's probably a LOT of work and effort to do both, though.

[@NoctLightCloud]

​@@patriotsfan122480and put the AA games on the Switch.

[@eliothillis535]

I’d be happy if every future FF game was like FF7 rebirth.

[@HirokiPlays]

Square never stopped making turned based games though (Octopath and Bravely). I don't think they're basing their assumptions on the market, they're basing them on their own sales numbers. What they need to do is calm the fuck down on those budgets... And just focus on making a fun/good product. Not an expensive one.

[@NoctLightCloud]

*and Dragon Quest

[@HirokiPlays]

@@NoctLightCloud I consider DQ outside of the Enix bubble though, since it has its own dedicated team outside of the FF one. But yes, under the company, DQ as well.

[@NoctLightCloud]

@@HirokiPlays "DQ outside of the Enix bubble"? You mean "outside of the Square bubble"?

[@HirokiPlays]

@@NoctLightCloud Yeh

[@Ubernerd3000]

Dragon Quest does just fine with turned-based gameplay, in fact, I played DQ 11 for hundreds of hours; and while being turned based may not sell games, not being turn-based has resulted in me passing on many, many, many games…as well as console systems that didn’t offer a descent selection of turn-based titles; i’m all for publishers having a variety of gameplay options in their libraries, even if I’m not going to play everything they make…

[@poleon2003]

Despite game critics criticizing the Dragon Quest series for being seen as "behind the times" compared to every other JRPG series smh

[@Ubernerd3000]

@@poleon2003 and yet it still sells a bunch of units…

[@hihyou]

I think that the PS5 early scarcity and lack of new IPs and lack of popularity hurt FF7 re sales. I'm just waiting for rebirth to come out on PC (eventually). Also, honest question: do you genuinely think that the reason Concord failed was "hero shooter fatigue"? Did you not see the atrocious designs or hear about it's development choices? Is it because the video is sponsored by ATLUS that you're not allowed to criticize the *main* problem with the modern video game industry?

[@pandaeyez]

FF7 Rebirth's battle system is the perfect marriage of turn based and action. Some people mistakingly do not realise Rebirth is a style of turn based because of its active real-time nature and presentation, but it only has the presentation of an action game, but it's not. Yes, there is a demand for turn based but there are people who like action too. So I think if Square can fuse the two so that it appeals to both types of players, it will please most people and maximise sales. With that being said, Rebirth suffers from being a remake trilogy and PS5 exclusivity. So Square need to make the correct business choices too.

[@scabu3]

I really like FFX-2 battle system where it was turn based but you could still attack right away, like if an enemy was coming to attack you could kill him before he got to you

[@LindsayTotty]

Square Enix should definitely continue to make action-command hybrid games like FF7R, that have high-end graphics and release on the latest PlayStation and PC day one. But I think they should also be working on a stream of command-based Final Fantasy games that target the latest Nintendo hardware (and can also release on PlayStation and PC for extra sales). Square Enix has tried to funnel off their command-based efforts to other teams, like Team Asano, but those other producers don't want to be limited by the Final Fantasy brand. They clearly need to find someone who is passionate about turn-based Final Fantasy and willing to champion the FF brand. In the meantime, if they still want to explore their character-action ambitions, they need to let Yoko Taro cook his next Nier game with a bigger budget, and perhaps also develop a new IP with Ryota Suzuki building on the work of FF16. Sometimes it seems like Square Enix isn't willing to commit a big budget to a AAA title unless they slap the Final Fantasy name on it, but that leads to fan expectations (multiple playable party members, multiple regions to explore) that they can't really sustain right now. So they need to build a new IP from the ground up if they want to make a single character action game that can compete.

[@dadodem2157]

Loved this video NSP! You made me realize a couple things! SE shouldn't focus on what is trending, rather they should do their own thing, and allow their creativity to speak in their works. They should also find a way to manage their budget. If they want to do a full on action game, maybe avoid overspending on cut scenes. If they go for turn based which will be cheaper they can go a little extra on the cutscenes. What matters is not the type of gameplay in itself, it's the story, paired with how unique the gameplay mechanic's work. Black Myth Wukong managed to sell so well...because a Sun Wukong story was never told on this medium and scale before. Despite me sucking on games like Lies of P and Stellar Blade, I still went out of my way to buy them and complete them, because the story got me hooked.😂🙌🏽 I think SE already found their unique formula with FF7R combat. They have to build upon it in the future.(they can also from time to time give us turn based or action games tho) Great video again, NSP❤🤩

[@ryo-kai8587]

_"SE shouldn't focus on what is trending..."_ This is so true; Square and FF used to be SETTING the trends. That's where we want to see them again.

[@paulcoffield2102]

Final Fantasy aren't going back to turn-based. Their games aren't selling well NOT because they aren't turn-based. They aren't selling well because their marketing is terrible and they've held onto that $$$ from Sony for exclusivity rights for about 10 years longer than they should have instead of building a solid PC fanbase like Capcom have been doing.

[@ganshrio7336]

Live service games, MMOs, battle royales, and competitive multiplayer experiences have drawn a massive portion of the gaming population away from single-player RPGs. Square-Enix can't compete in this environment. They were lucky none of these were popular in the 90s.

[@redcloud16]

on the topic of being shit at marketing, ive been following a twitch streamer who plays FFXI a lot and complains that when console support for XI ended, Square did a horrible job of telling people that the game DIDNT shut down and they could still play on PC; every single stream he has people coming in being like "This game is still running?!" YES. lmao. To think, FFXI was Square's cash cow for a decade and a half, only RECENTLY being surpassed by FFXIV. You'd think they'd give more a fuck about something that printed money for them; imagine how much money they'd be printing if they gave XI the time of day.

[@2un7zu]

Yeah, Concord didn't sell well because people were tired of hero shooters.~

[@jonathonvoegtli4699]

Id rather see a speed based game like tactics or ffx then an atb system to be honest

[@poleon2003]

Yeah honestly I'm not really big on ATB despite being in the most popular entries in the series but honestly X has my favorite battle system of any FF game because honestly I like having ALL the time in the world to select an action

[@SomnusShinra]

FF7 Re Trilogy is the way FF needs to go without being exclusive to one platform. It's the perfect system that the series has ever had

[@Pope-of-Comics]

@@SomnusShinra False. It's just an action game and sold less than other action games.

[@Ahoniu]

@@Pope-of-Comics🤡

[@Ukaran]

@Pope-of-Comics It's among the top 10 best sellers of 2024.

[@ganshrio7336]

In comparison to earlier action jrpgs (Kingdom Hearts, Tales of, Star Ocean), the hybrid system feels less fluid and more fragmented. It feels like a transitional step rather than a revolutionary leap forward. Hardly "perfect".

[@grin_of_grimmsnarl1333]

Honestly I think the combat in Rebirth is actually the sweet spot. When discussing sales, there are definitely important factors to consider: obviously launching solely on PlayStation is a devastating blow all its own. Tack on that Rebirth is a sequel to (albeit the best selling) a "niche" Final Fantasy title and we've got a recipe for sales disaster. No one knew out the gates that combat would be doublely better that Remake. It's fantastic for what it is. But also it's still niche, all things considered. I'm a lover of the system, honestly. The addition of synergies with the already fluid action/ATB system was exactly what the game needed.

[@Lenox188]

Turn based was not the reason why baldur's gate, yakuza like a dragon, refantazio and other titles had good numbers, the entire aesthetic and legacy of the series/studio do justice to the numbers, baldur's gate had a completely different appeal in its marketing, selling itself with the most ''horny'' game today and also the great capacity for freedom that the game gives in relation to writing its story, its success has nothing to do with the fact that it is a turn-based game. Even though FF16 did not ''meet SE's expectations'', it sold three times as much as Refantazio at its exclusive launch. Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth had exclusivity and the problem of being a trilogy, strangely enough, this is a problem for some weirdos, it sold more than 2 million copies and has the best combat system ever created. I can enjoy both subgenres, but to say that Final Fantasy's current problem is its combat system is being dishonest or very naive. Its only problem was exclusivity.

[@emeka490]

Yup both final fantasy needed to be mutliplat nothing to do about being turn based or not

[@ZAquadix]

It's interesting because I was recently listening to a video about the history of square from ff union and when square first started they were just trying to make trendy games but had a hard time turning a profit and capturing people`s attention. It was when they stopped chasing trends that they finally saw success but somewhere along the line they forgot the lesson and went back to just chasing trends. Hasn't worked out that well. I think it would be fun to see a turn based main line ff but I think it would have to release along side an action based ff to keep the fans from complete outrage. I think you are right about square enix pursuing Retrilogy's combat. I personally loved the combat and it can be evolved in so many ways. If they just threw it away and did something completely different I would feel kind of gutted and might not play future ffs unless they really give me a really good reason to. I enjoyed ff16 combat initially but thought it got boring pretty quickly.

[@revan8795]

I loved ffx's combat style. It's what I wished Ever Crisis went with. Hopefully it will make a comeback now. Especially since it was only ever used in that one game.

[@Acesinz]

Best comment ❤

[@blackmanwithcomputer]

Why would they go back to turn based, when they could just continue to iterate and evolve the FF7R combat? It's party based, we can control all the of the party and they all have unique real-time combat that can be modified. Imagine incorporating environmental interactions or gambits. BG3 didn't win GOTY because it was turn based. It won because of how insanely deep its RPG system went. FF has NEVER even approached such complex RPG mechanics. We're talking about improving mechanics, but people are also humoring them dropping the FF7R combat which is actually unique amongst all RPG games.

[@DayFul]

Honkai Star Rail's combat is a love letter to FFX and does absolutely wild things with those mechanics and it's making tens of millions a month. It's all about the characters, Story and marketing. Rebirths struggles are a bitter pill to swallow as I absolutely loved it but it's a game Lazer focussed on pleasing it's core audience.

[@hayalmatnu9919]

I love remake's combat, please keep iiiiitt

[@YPYT90]

Right? Turn based means only selling about 2 million copies. Turn based games should not get AAA budget

[@ultimachain8677]

Remakes combat wasn’t that great. It was rather annoying with constant stun lock. People just say that because it’s FF7 and they have to be toxically positive about anything Square related.

[@user-vc6]

@@YPYT90 pokemon (nuf said) and persona... persona 5 sold 7.2 million copies (was a goty contender) and has the series sold like 22 million copies all time (mostly from 345) both persona 3 reload and metaphor are selling faster then 5 too,, i doubt 3 will past it but metaphor could...... square has way more money then atlus and could do better. im not saying we need lots of turn base but one or two titles while keeping remakes system

[@TheNightSkyPrince]

I do think Remake's combat is the path forward for sure.

[@JVPlayz96]

@@TheNightSkyPrince I also like FF7 Remake/Rebirth action based combat (Remake's a bit more though because I felt more in control when using Cloud). I haven't played the other FF action based games but if action based combat stays I hope it's like FF7 Remake/Rebirth action based combat because I feel more engaged with the game. I've heard lots of negative reviews about FF15 action based combat so obviously I hope it's never like that in future FF titles.

[@Akkumako]

FF7R gameplay should be the future of the series. It's way more interesting than traditional turn based and just going back to turn based won't save them.

[@ChrisF_1982]

Does it still let you switch between characters? That's the one thing I found lacking in 16 I would have loved to play as someone other than Clive as the lead for a bit.

[@ocean_0602]

@@ChrisF_1982 Yes you can switch back and forth between the party members instantly whenever and how ever many times you want in the battle.

[@ocher8931]

I played the Metaphor ReFantazio demo last night and fell in love with games again. Turn based is a wonderful way to tell stories. Having a unique artistic style and being creative with how you engage combat is enough to make it feel fresh. FF has been following for too long. I hope Square come to their senses but I’m not depending on them after 16. There are alternatives.

[@scotchmaple]

Final Fantasy 12 The Zodiak Age I didn't feel was "turn based" when you could get attacked while putting in commands. Felt like it had some weird timer you didn't know the duration of. I played the Tales series games and Y's but I always wanted the final fantasy series to remain turn based. I think they went away from it to change up their formula and maybe attract new players but for me their rich story and character attacks, abilities etc. were why I loved the FF series. We kind of need a return to "why its good" not "why it sells" just my opinion.

[@Asuraxshin]

other than ffx every final fantasy from ff4 onward wasn't turn base. the timer you felt was the atb system and it was based off the speed stat of the characters. Hardware limitations is the reason the games weren't more action based.

[@marcustodd2910]

Great video. I think most people would be OK with continuing to develop FF7R combat. The problems people have with that game are typically nothing to do with the combat system and for me personally I like that it, unlike FF16, keeps a lot of what I think of as RPG elements such as elemental weaknesses, status ailments and so on. Crazy to me that they made a game where you spend your time gathering elemental powers only for those elements to have no effect on combat. Even if they never do make another turn based FF game, I would love if they would at least try giving a turn based RPG of some kind a true AAA level effort.

[@Jxudo]

Remake and Rebirth's combat is the pinnacle of RPG combat systems. I feel it should be the standard for everything.

[@KatallinaVT]

There is no combat system that should be standard for everything in any sub-genre of gaming. That leads to laziness and stagnation.

[@TheJozzi]

So happy to see your latest post my bro. Blessings

[@fffan11]

I think sales for Expedition 33 and FFIXR will be decisive as to whether a AAA command based FF is feasible. As for FFIXR, while I do hope it is command based, I'm hoping for a more dynamic ATB system maybe similar to that of FFX-2 where characters can act simultaneously rather than a full on turn based system.

[@telltellyn]

Strategy in combat is what's most important, there need to be party members with different strengths and weaknesses, and the player developing those characters and their strategies for combat.

[@xavierninetwofourfiveone6901]

A new FF with BG3 mechanics, would truly be awesome for real. Lets have turned base, & hybrid combat FFs.

[@superbuneary8819]

Bro I keep saying this in the comments. I'm shocked no one's even mentioning it. Seems like ff players are stuck under a rock when they're having this discussion about turn based when the solution is right in their face. Just copy or take inspiration from Baldurs gate 3, problem solved. Final fantasy would live and be fun forever, happy ending.

[@xavierninetwofourfiveone6901]

@@superbuneary8819 I think they just need to see in implemented by SE to see if theyd like it or not. Shoot, lets see demos, with Real Time With Pause, BG3, ATB, & ATB Hybrid combat, & mechanics, at the very least. Maybe even a new IP honestly with some of these ideas would be nice.

[@Butterfliesandzebras]

To make a smash hit final fantasy game all they need to do is stick to the formula that made it great: turn based but with innovative systems and tactical fast based battles, an allegorical story that focuses on the classic FF themes of life, death, friendship, mental health, letting go, etc. a highly customisable party system (see jobs) with RPG elements, and a brand new, stylised fantasy world with every entry. They also need to remember it's a GAME. Not a movie with some game inbetween their narrative cut scenes

[@gemsplus7583]

I wish for Valkyrie Profile Hrist😢

[@OmarO_721]

Yeah I feel like there has been a strong resurgence in turn based combat lately. Especially with many games integrating innovative elements within them. Like I really enjoy how games like Trails Of Daybreak and Metaphor integrate action in their turn based battle system. By letting players do hack & slash combat on the field, to stun enemies and gain the advantage in turn based battle. With the case of Final Fantasy, I definitely think they can pull off a strong turn based battle system. They can easily build off from FFX CTAB, which many enjoyed. And probably add more interactive and some real time elements to it, like we seen in Expedition 33. But if they choose to stick with real time combat, I hope they stick with FF7 Remake’s combat. Because this is their best real time combat by far.

[@BrennySpain]

It’s so crazy how Conchord was pitched in 2016 when the PS4 was still a really poplar console. Long before PS5 was a thing too.

[@cullbe]

I think that FF7Remake/Rebirth combat style is the way to go, I think the reason that it hasn't sold as well as it should have is the fact that its story really does require you to have played the original and then after that you have to play remake then rebirth and then you will have to play whatever the third game in the series is going to be called. If someone has to play multiple games in a series it can turn people off playing a game as when you think about the typical length of an RPG that is a massive time investment. I personally really like the FF7R games but the original FF7 was also my first RPG so I already knew the original story and the way I see it the FF7R series is defiantly a continuation of the original story, not a remake or a separate story that you can easily follow or understand without playing the original game and lets be honest with all the different spinoff/side games its not the easiest of stories to follow. They may also need to eliminate the numbering systems for the games, as this can put off many casual gamers, as it can appear that the games are direct sequels to the previous games in the series. For example, instead of calling FF16 Final Fantasy 16, if they had instead called it something like Final Fantasy: Dominants of Valisthea, it may appeal to more casual gamers as it no longer has a sequel feel to the name which may make it more appealing to the casual gamer. These are just my thoughts anyway. I just thought I would put them out there.

[@porkyvonchop-zd8xn]

most ipgenre fans know what are they getting. but in final fantasy case...... 😆😆

[@faidou9954]

I doubt that Square Enic will ever return to turn based combat, even after all the successful turn based JRPGs that proved that this style of gameplay can be engaging. A lot has yet to be seen from Square Enix before we see a return to turn based combat in Final Fantasy.

[@DrowsyMongoose]

Balance of bringing back Turn Based for some projects and also keeping the foundation of VII Remake/Rebirth combat for other projects is the ideal scenario for me.

[@dannybruce4513]

They should do a FF Tactics 2 like the ps1 but better graphics

[@ryansilva9282]

I think if a turn base system was somehow incorporated with the world’s combat. Kind of like a fight with honor. A stand off with guns in swords. A paper rock scissors if you will.

[@gardenstateknicks]

i hope they don't move away from the ff7 remake/rebirth system because i loved it. or at least not dump it entirely based on sales. i also loved the hack and slash aspect of ff16, i just wanted deeper party aspects. i don't think we need to throw anything out, just keep deciding what the best system is for each entry instead of going to the extreme and be like, "that's it, we are doing ALL turn based now"

[@captainkirk5027]

Square need to go full ffx turn based or ffvii action and stop tryna innovate on every damn entry, that why they fail especially with their dam expectations

[@takerweapon1]

It will be the latter as that is better foundation to build on.

[@TheRealist1.]

Turn based is done for with the FF series... Better go support the turn based titles if that's your preference. People are thinking Metaphor is a part of the revival, but it'll still be a niche title. Baldur's Gate is a CRPG that has been around forever, lightning in a bottle.

[@nico.delmundo]

another good example is the yazuka series moving to turn based combat and actually doing very well.

[@theoneonly2406]

Im pretty sure both of these number figures were given while the games were solely on the PS5. Games like BG, P5 released on PS3 and PS4. FFXVI and 7Rebirth both released on a single console that didn't have the huge player base of the past. Now that 16 is on PC, will be interesting to see the sales numbers/expectations now.

[@NoirTenshin]

If I want an action game, depending on which type (slow or fast), there are studios / games that are specialized / offer a much better / refined experience. When I buy a FF game, I firstly want a journey with an excellent story, in an interesting world, with a cast of characters where each one of them has something to offer (and grows powerful in both their own progression and doing epic quests for legendary loot) and a villain that will make me question my own morality. Combat needs to evolve over time (not just progress with bigger numbers and have more visual effects on the screen). Imho, switching to action game genre, everything de-evolved. Mostly because SE doesn't have the budget nor the expertise to keep everything on the same quality level with the cost of the action combat (on a respectable level, which imho they don't fully deliver). P.S. And please, no more crystals. It got old a decade ago...

[@Darkfawfulx]

I agree with your last paragraph but not your p s.

[@ubergamer2010]

If Square wants to know why Metaphor is doing well, I'll give my two cents: 1) art style and creative direction! We dont need to see every pixel of the character/environment for an emotionally immersive experience, strong creative direction lasts much longer! 2) A combat experience that emphasizes customization AND fun! Its 2024, we like party based mechanics and playing a variety of characters. Blending their relationships into the combat is key to an immersive experience. 3) THE WRITING. MY GOD THE WRITING IS SO GOOD. Even the characters I want to punch in the face, I love how they're written. Honestly, I think FF7 Rebirth EVERYTHING right, it's now a matter of them getting it right in the mainline series.

[@SSJKamui]

I like final fantasy becoming an action rpg (but it should not be a hack and slash) I see a potential for turn based combat though. If they increase the party size and go in a more ff tactics like direction

[@ectogamut]

Any Final Fantasy game that can give you, like, 10,000 meaningful branching storylines (like BG3) is going to be popular and sell well, whether turn-based or not

[@superbuneary8819]

That kinda goes not well with FF considering FF usually has a canon lore and a strict narrative it follows storyline wise. But if they take inspiration from Baldurs gate 3's lore and world building, interactions. And especially BG3's turn based combat mechanics then final fantasy would definitely be saved.

[@superbuneary8819]

Like if they make an FF6 remake that takes inspiration from BG3 alone it'd be amazing. I can imagine Terra having her own specialized class, unique armor builds etc. having her transform into an esper ala wild shape and have stat modifiers and be in permanent fly mode. And not just her, the rest of the FF6 crew having their own class and builds that you can customize etc. Locke being a thief and can easily lockpick stuff compared to anybody else for example. and having terra interact with the whole crew like how it is in BG3, would be amazing.

[@ganshrio7336]

BG3 was a straight line until the end. There were only two choices, one less compared to that infamous sci-fi trilogy.

[@ectogamut]

@@ganshrio7336 Dude, what are you talking about? Here’s just ONE example: you can kill Shadowheart permanently in the first 10 minutes of the game. Think about how central to the main plot she is. Even minor side characters will have new quests for you in Act 3 depending on your choices in Act 1.

[@shinmalestat9272]

So, hear me out. A Monster Hunter-esque FF title set in the Dissidia world. With the two gods maintaining the balance of the World, creatures have begun to emerge from the energies left over by battle and not only creatures but new sentient life. Flesh out the World for exploration, base the "weapons" on the battle tactics of the original Dissidia roster and let us hunt fiends to upgrade our equipment.

[@Xenado22]

As much as I love original Final Fantasy, I just really hope they don't go back to turn based, Atlus is the master of turn based, so I'm fine when they do it, but enemies and bosses just have so much more impact when you get to combo hundreds of flashy moves against them instead of pressing buttons on a menu, I wouldn't mind them going back, but I don't think it's necessary

[@ganshrio7336]

Only if Square Enix does not want to be competitive. The change from spending your entire time watching long summon animations to the direct control and interaction offered by real-time gameplay (active dodging, parrying, or blocking) is due to changing audience expectations. The same reason why Resident Evil moved away from fixed camera angles. Square got lucky in the 90s. They can't compete with western innovation.

[@MasterLee2011]

I think turn based JRPGs can still serve a purpose as well in the video gaming industry. Like The Legend of Heroes: Trails series for example. Each new arc in the series they keep improving and adding more to the battle systems, while keeping it familiar. Now we're at a point where the newest arc in the series 2021's Trails Through Daybreak is a hybrid like Metaphor: ReFantazio. It has new mechanics now, but it still knows it's roots. Speaking of the Trails series I recommend that you and the people in the comment section give it a try if you're into video games that are character and story driven, that has the deepest lore, with overarching arcs, and is geopolitical in nature. If you're interested, then I recommend starting with the first game that's called The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky the 1st. It's a remake of the original game Trails in the Sky FC. It's coming out next year and I recommend that you give a try. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqfQfpSKmNGohNE

[@tommyking626]

Falcom is the best in turn base, other than atlus. Its just because they want action based, story dipped too much. Daybreak is not in good shape. Sales down, they say it is because of series fatigue, i dont think so. Its just they focus on graphics and action based battle they forgot to write exciting story. Its double edge

[@darthjeff1633]

How about talk about the actual report instead of half quoting it out of context? The report never said that. In that section of the report, it said sales for that division were low in spite of the ff16 release. But in that statement it also mentioned foamstars release. The point which is elaborated on later in the report, is that sales weren’t producing the profits they wanted for their games, but that it wasn’t because of ff16 or rebirth, it was because of the other games in the product line. So then the board asks why they have such a large product line and if it causing issues with OVERALL profits, are they slimming down. They clarified that the fan base has diverse interests ranging from blockbuster games to indie games and they are working to slim the product line down. They actually clarified that year over year, ff16 actually increased overall revenue. But the lack of profits from other products decreased overall profits. They also were talking about net operating income which is income after expenses and they clarified two categories of unexpected expenses which also detracted from overall profits. This has NOTHING to do with being turn based. I hate how information is being cherry picked to push certain interests.

[@TheNightSkyPrince]

I know what you're saying and I've discussed it a thousand times since. Here's a video for me discussing exactly what you're talking about for almost 4 hours: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGbSaZubpK90rbs On top of the report, multiple Industry analyst have confirmed a thousand times over, the games did not meet sales expectations. It is what it is, man.

[@NoahAlcantarSUCKS-jf8so]

@@TheNightSkyPrince aren't you however.....catering this bait to nostalgiatards?

[@potentatewags]

I wish it would go back to its roots I don't care what some people say, you can refresh turn base and make it new and entertaining. Anyone who says otherwise just has action as their favorite gameplay. We don't need everything being the same gameplay genre.

[@JulienMoutin]

Man, stop using Tifa pictures for your thumbnail it's boring now.

[@tangiblemammal5273]

What should he use?

[@keiichimorisato98]

No.

[@superbuneary8819]

​@@tangiblemammal5273 Yuna, Rinoa, Garnet, Terra. They're so much more better than Tifa.

[@KieranHamilton-y7s]

All characters from 20+ years ago.

[@kwpineda5663]

I just watched a new comer to FF play through FF10 and said this: I thought Dark Souls bosses were difficult but i rather do that 50 times than fight Seymour Flux again 😂. She also mentioned that she loved turn based battles and didn't know it. To her, it felt like a mini game and a puzzle to solve. Each battle being unique and challenging. Now if FF goes back to turn base ill welcome it, but i believe its more about keeping those elements we all love in the franchise.

[@otysafiry]

I think they could implement action with turn based. Turn comes up slect your attacks....and do some action stuff within that command. Hell, some PS1 era FF games and FF6 did some of this to an extent. Sabin in FF6, Tifa in FF7, Squall, Zell and Irvine in FF8. I think they could expand on that now.

[@KatallinaVT]

The question ends up being: whose money does Square Enix want? There is money from people who primarily play turn based or other slow, tactics based game styles. There is money from people who play twitchy action combat games. There is money from people who play a wider range of games who might or might not buy their next project. How well are each of these markets being served? How much of their collective funding is already being tied up with existing projects or new releases? What type of game(s) are Square's current studios equipped to actually make in a 2020-something context? As someone who primarily purchases games that are slowly paced and story driven, largely due to my own personal limitations, I know what I'm more likely to invest in. However, I also know I am only one person. How saturated is each market? How much potential profit does it offer? Is it being served, or is change being left on the table? Is the company able to make a legitimately good product for the audience it chooses to court? Those are the core questions.

[@sevhoss]

Yeah I'm not really a fan of going back to turn based. The only scenario this works is if they massively scale back the budget of the game. This is why ATLUS games are successful at 2 to 3 million copies sold. SE already has Dragon Quest for their AAA turn based franchise. Baldur's Gate 3 works because it is a hardcore RPG with so many possibilities and is rooted with DnD. Final Fantasy as a franchise will never be able to be what Baldur's Gate 3 is, it would be an entirely different franchise at that point. In my opinion, look at Stranger of Paradise. That game is action and the amount of build expression you have in that game is incredible. Repurpose that gameplay because conceptually that game is a true action RPG. There are so many job classes in that game, you can literally be any class. If SE used that blueprint, take it itself more seriously but keep the vibe of Final Fantasy, it's promising. I do want turn based, but as spin-off games.

[@franimal86]

I love turn-based. It’s like D&D which is FF’s roots or like any other board game. It’s relaxing, which is just a different kind of feeling than real-time combat.

[@Dzzy123]

You spoke about the development times for games being 7-8 years at times. Square Enix should honestly reuse assets like the combat system and other things to make development faster. Now, we might be lucky to get one or two mainline entries in a generation whereas before we got more.

[@jamjam445]

"can a triple A turned based game make a profit in 2024. Now a word from out sponsor, Atlus" if that was intentional, that was genius lol

[@padraicburns9278]

I always thought turn-based needed to be spiced up with timing gimmicks like Squall's gunblade, Super Mario RPG, or better yet, the combat from Legend of Dragoon. Xenogear's deathblow system also makes combat more interesting than "just" selecting Attack.

[@BigHairyRick]

Bg3 showed that there is a market

[@ganshrio7336]

For bear mating action? Certainly. Not much else. hahaha

[@BigHairyRick]

@@ganshrio7336 for turn based games, Einstein