Off Grid Solar Power System Batteries -- which are best?

[@TheOldJarhead]

Here's that video link I mentioned: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eWjOfpeOjLWeqZYsi=aAqnKeRXChBxwj3D

[@KPVFarmer]

It’s great to see someone talk about realistic cost effective off grid energy solutions! Most people don’t have unlimited budgets.

[@TheOldJarhead]

Thanks! and yes! Most of us just can't afford the newest and best of everything ;)

[@joneberle4952]

Hey mister. Did not think I would watch the whole video, which I did. Thank you for the detailed info. Info that was not in my knowledge base. Keep up,the good work. Just discovered your channel today. Take care.

[@TheOldJarhead]

Wow, I appreciate it and am glad to have you here!

[@mericasilverpatriot9110]

I'm running on 16 crown 6v 235a making a 470a 48v bank. Working great.

[@TheOldJarhead]

That's great

[@tinynhhouse5467]

Great info on batteries. Winter temps at my cabin average around +20 F. I am glad I went with golf cart batteries! My auto mechanic was able to get the batteries for me at wholesale price. Thanks for the video. - Dave

[@TheOldJarhead]

Nice! And warm 😁

[@smaggies]

As viewing the video, I thought of capacitors, I will do a search of this thought, just to view the usage of a capacitor within solar system. It's great to learn and understand, all types of battery's and the usage. :)

[@TheOldJarhead]

Sounds interesting

[@ssilver8240]

Thank you for going on about this. I am very near the Atlantic ocean in North Carolina. It seems, recent years are colder here. I use plant sprouting heating pads and one inch insulated foam made into a cover to the batteries. My water pumps failed due to freezing over the years, I have stainless steel pump now and rewired pump house with heat.

[@TheOldJarhead]

Glad it was helpful! I was at Camp Lejeune for 5 years 😉

[@ssilver8240]

@@TheOldJarhead Camp Lejeune is a bit over 100 miles, I am on the coast 4 miles from Harker's Island and the outer Banks.

[@TheOldJarhead]

Nice. I spent some time out there once or twice, I think, but it was a long time ago

[@WilsonForestLands]

In our mild winter climate sounds like the LiFePO4 will be east to manage.

[@TheOldJarhead]

I would imagine so in your location. As long as it won't get into a deep freeze 😉

[@Hank-Waconda1.]

Im running 3 8D 12Volt flooded in parallel for 4 years. Gets to 15 below here also. Keep em charged and watered rock solid.

[@TheOldJarhead]

Amen! I rarely even bothered equalizing my 6v GCB's because they hit 28v (24v bank) daily most of them time (unless it was cloudy and snowing) which technically boiled off the impurities anyway. After 8 years I missed getting to the cabin on my 2nd set and they were drawn down to 9v!!! So I switched to LiFePo4's and won't worry anymore but those 8 year old GCB's were still able to maintain a charge so I gave them to a neighbor who could use them and I figure he'll get another year or two out of them, maybe more if he takes care of them.

[@reginaldoertel8791]

If been running Willard 2V Cell Lead Acid batteries, and only discharging them between 13 - 20 percent per day. They have been running now for 10 years. I'm now thinking of getting LiFePO 4 to replace them. The only thing that puts me off the lead acid batteries is the amount of water that i need to keep them topped up.

[@TheOldJarhead]

Good point on the water. We ran 2.2v cells in the central offices (Telecom) and they last a long long time but we also didn't use them much. Lead has it's place for sure but today LiFePo4's are certainly an improvement! I've also had comments about building insulated heated boxes for LiFePo4's if left unattended and I think that is certainly a doable option. In my case I just worry about it because I've killed my lead batteries a couple times over the last 15 years when I just didn't have the solar I needed and I wasn't there to stop the drain. However, with new solar panels etc it's certainly doable (and not an issue for someone who lives where the batteries are).

[@SarahStuff-p5u]

You sir are a Gem in the rough, thank you

[@TheOldJarhead]

Wow, thanks so much!

[@dc1544]

You are 100% correct. Even my EVE LFP 280ah cells need to be used correctly. I do not go below 12% or charge past 88%. I also have mine setup where each of 4 battery banks go to a busbar so the load is shared evenly and my C rating never goes over 0.2C. Also mine are in a basement where my temps are perfect 50F-70F year around even when outside temps get -15F or colder. I have 4 14.3kw banks. That is called a 48 volt system even though Mine are 51.2-55.2 volts and 48 volts means they are almost empty and would cause damage over time.

[@TheOldJarhead]

👍 48v is the nominal rating but most 48v batteries are 100% at over 52v and charge closer to 56v

[@mpccenturion]

Canada here. - 54 F this winter gone by. Batt in Canada go thru heck.

[@TheOldJarhead]

That's getting chili 😉

[@vevenaneathna]

what about lto bats? i added 4kwh of lifepo4 to my chevy volt on the 12v system and replaced my agm for 350$. has 200w of flexible solar going into it. added a 15w silicone heating pad to it with a 12v termostat. getting about 10-15% more all electric range now on my longer drives. kind of an interesting concept

[@TheOldJarhead]

LTO? I know there are some great new ways to keep batteries warm these days, but the cost can be prohibitive for some.

[@vevenaneathna]

@@TheOldJarhead ya the lithium titanate batteries which can be charged in subzero i believe. most are mfg by yinglong and all the ones comming over to the US are salvage cells from old EV busses in china but people in the car audio world love them. theyre below lifepo4 in density and not a lot are made. weird chemistry.

[@TheOldJarhead]

@@vevenaneathna Cool

[@dc1544]

One thing most people do not understand is MPPT Solar chargers. I do not use any of those as they can fry out easy. Most of them are not able to hold a full load and when your batteries stop receiving a charge there is no where for the power to go. That is why I use all in one inverters. I have 2 5k growatt inverters and when my batteries are full to where I set my bms settings at the inverters hold the power and use it to power any house loads till and even stop accepting PV power till its used then it uses PV power to cover loads and batteries if PV is not enough. Just thought I would share this since so many think those little blue MPPT boxes are good. Only use them if your whole system talks to everything which is way to expensive for me.

[@TheOldJarhead]

My cc's are older and I think more robust than newer ones so I have no idea how the new ones hold up but it would be nice to have a diverted load.

[@dc1544]

mine are 8000 cycles with 80% discharge and within temp and discharge within their specs. I can 0.5C discharge or charge and I already said I only do 0.2C charge and discharge max and only use 76% with temps 50F - 70F 70F is only for 2 weeks of hottest summer in my basement which is cooled and heated with mini split.

[@TheOldJarhead]

That's awesome and will likely result in far more cycles. I've seen manufacturers claim 15000 cycles at 30% DoD

[@dc1544]

@@TheOldJarhead If my batteries make it 8000 cycles I will never see it. In 1.5 years I am at 91 cycles. Let's see if they hold up over time.

[@TheOldJarhead]

Nice! That's my thinking too!

[@timothyadams7599]

From a old sailor to an Old Jarhead. Have you ever looked into using a 16 volt ultracapacitors bank on your system; prolong the life of your batteries?

[@TheOldJarhead]

Nope. I've just kept it simple and am not enough of a sparky for that 😉

[@1GREATDANE]

I went with both chemistries for My Lodge Battery Banks - 8 CHINS 280AH LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE and 8 RENOGY 200AH AGM BATTERIES in 24 Volt Packs anticipating several weeks of Freezing Temps at 3,100 feet in The High Desert of Southern California near Big Bear Lake Mountain Resorts Community in California 🌴💦 Indian Creek 🌵⛩

[@TheOldJarhead]

Smart -- do you use the AGM's to keep the LiFePo4's warm when it gets into the super cold temps?

[@1GREATDANE]

@@TheOldJarhead Yes, and The CHINS also have BMS with low Temp Protection. 12 Volt Truck Drivers Blanket only draws 150watts max once activated by a Thermostat and a Buck Step Down Converter handles It and My Irrigation needs on 12 Volt Fuse Block.

[@TheOldJarhead]

That's pretty good, I should look at those

[@JamesBond-zd5jx]

Central Georgia. You think we don’t get winter? Yeah, you’d be wrong. Two whole weeks of it every year.

[@charlescoffey9523]

Good points, I am in total agreement with you, though I went a slightly different path. I have found older lead acid from random auction sites as well as 4 big batteries cycled out a commercial backup system, they still work fine. I favor having a lead acid system even if you have a lithium one as well. Because I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy. I am always assuming the world can go to hell at a moment's notice. If I needed more batteries after a collapse, I am not likely to find lithium just laying around but lead, lead is everywhere. I also do not favor one big system but two or more smaller systems. If we are grid down, or even supply deprived, if you have just one, all it takes is one blown capacitor and you are down. I should mention their are also things like fork lift batteries available. Hard to move but damn they are tough and have some serious capacity. Long term in a real grid down world even without inverters, I could still have lighting with just batteries, even car batteries which can be used, you just need a lot more of them.

[@TheOldJarhead]

Great points and part of the reason I have multiple charge controllers ;) and have extras tucked away. I can switch to lead if I need to once sourced. One thing is that my system was built several years ago and things change but I'm not sure those changes are always better ;) Either way, I'm covered ;) and with EMP shield I'm even more covered :D

[@charlescoffey9523]

@@TheOldJarhead That is the best way to be, prepared. It will not hurt my feelings at all if every dime I spent on preps ends up being money I technically wasted. I hope and pray in fact that turns out to be reality. I would like to say and this is not a criticism but just another pov for anyone who might read this. There is nothing wrong with the emp shield, other than I think it is too expensive and is well basically marketing. I use standard whole house surge protectors, they will protect just as well as the shield, at least in my opinion, and only cost a hundred compared to 3 to 4 times as much for the shield. I consider it like a highpoint pistol, I have a highpoint which was my first pistol until I could scrape up the funds for my glock. That Highpoint is a good gun, no matter how many people like to look down on it. Better something that costs a hundred and works and something that costs multiples of that and you do not have it. By the way if you cannot tell, I tend to be long winded too, lol. Still I am impressed by your pov, most people are in love with lithium, me too to a degree. Still glad to see lead getting some attention. Because again some battery beats the hell out of no battery.

[@TheOldJarhead]

Hey, I'm a little long winded too ;) If you can't tell! lol -- as for EMP Shield, as a long time Telco guy I'm far more comfortable with it than a standard surge arrestor or lightening arrestor but aside from military testing and what they claim I can't be any more sure it will work that what you suggest. Oh and I'm a Kimber guy ;) But I was able to afford them after I bought a Keltek once ;)

[@bobmonztr]

I went with Xterra AGM lead carbon batteries, no BMS, no heater, -40 to +60C, non-spillable, 0 maintenance no electrolyte, discharge to 90% possible, storage up to 24 months, good performance 40 to 80% in case you need generator power just absorb charge, fully charge every 30 days, 48KW $9600 USD 3200 cycles @ 50% DOD. 48KW weigh 2700lbs I have my bank under the trailer on plywood, but the trailer is insulated ground to roof at -30c it was +.7c under the trailer. A 12v 250amp or 3kw is $580 usd each. Caution a lot of inverter voltmeters are not accurate, my inverter shows -2v, I had to turn down absorb and float voltages to get correct rates.

[@TheOldJarhead]

What is the cost per battery?

[@bobmonztr]

@@TheOldJarhead 3kw 580usd 12v 250

[@TheOldJarhead]

So 580 for a 12v 250AH battery?

[@danielnicholls6868]

there are pricey lead carbon batteries that work even better in the cold { firefly }

[@TheOldJarhead]

Pricey is they key, perhaps 😉

[@junkerzn7312]

I don't get it. Lithium batteries are really small, it is completely trivial to build a well-insulated and sealed battery box with a little heating pad to keep it warm. Are you worried about not having enough solar to generate the roughly 500Wh/day needed? It's literally just 2 x 200W panels oriented vertically (so no snow can accumulate on them == 100% unattended operation) and you are done. In anycase, I wouldn't discard the far, far, far superior LiFePO4 chemistry for lead-acid just because one is not willing to build an insulated battery box with a little 20W thermal pad in. Another thing... LiFePO4 actually CAN be charged below freezing, you just have to do it very slowly (0.1C or lower). Where you really have to stop charging and discharging is below -20C. But if you have the power margin to charge or discharge anyway, you obviously have the power margin to run a little heating blanket in a small sealed, well-insulated battery box and keep the battery above freezing 24x7. This whole argument makes no sense. Your entire video makes no sense... you obviously haven't used LIFePO4 enough to be able to make the statements you are making. You are wrong on basically everything. You absolutely can run LiFePO4 with high DODs... 90% won't even remotely begin to harm the battery. -- You don't need to string 12.8V LiFePO4 batteries together to make higher-voltage battery banks either... you just buy native 8s or 16s batteries (25.6V or 51.2V native batteries). Tie as many as you want in parallel (with proper fusing). You don't need a fancy BMS with current-limiting. It is completely unnecessary... any decently-sized battery bank has so much power margin that your gear won't even be able to approach 1C. You don't even need low-temperature protection if you just stuff the batteries in a well-insulated battery box with a 20W thermal pad. You don't need a display. None of that. All LiFePO4 batteries have BMS's... you need the BMS obviously since the cells have to be balanced. BMS, basic protections, that's it. All you need with LiFePO4 is to understand the charging profile. You charge the batteries to 3.55V/cell (28.4V if a 24V system), let it sit for 30 minutes to 2 hours at that voltage if you happen to have the margin for that, then drop it down to a float of 3.35V to 3.375V/cell (26,8V to 27.0V). Discharge down to roughly 3.0V/cell (that's 95% discharged) = 24.0V. Cut it off there. No worries about memory (there is no memory effect), no worries about completely discharging or completely charging... the batteries will stay in balance for a few months (e.g. across winter) if you can't completely charge them up, as long as you are able to do a full charge cycle every once in a while they will stay healthy and balanced. That's it, you are done. That's all you have to do. I don't understand why you think it's so difficult or why you think people are lying to you. Only a few things can kill LiFePO4: Charging above 0.1C below freezing, charging or discharging at all below -20C, or allowing the battery to discharge below 2.5V/cell for too long (i.e. letting a discharged battery sit around on a shelf for 6 months). That's it. -Matt

[@TheOldJarhead]

While that might seem tobwork, I assure you that at 30 below, you'll need more power and better insulation. I prefer not to have to worry.

[@junkerzn7312]

@@TheOldJarhead I assure you, you don't. You use the best insulation you can throw together and fully seal the box. No air gaps, no seam gaps. That's the real key... NO air gaps to the outside, NO seams from inside t othe outside (i.e. use two offset layers of insulation). Then a low-wattage thermal blanket under the battery pack. 20W. That actually might be too much. On a thermostat then. Rvalue = (T1 - T2) / (q / A). q: in watts A: in m^2. So lets be generous. Call it 40C delta, 20W, and 6 m^2 of surface area (3ft x 3ft x 3ft box, approximately). Calculate it: Rvalue = 40 / (20 / 6) = R12. Obviously a complete non-problem. But if you are worried, use serious insulation like R-49. Don't let the battery overheat. This is a long, long-solved problem. -Matt

[@TheOldJarhead]

@junkerzn7312 2 hours of real solar production at best and months of clouds and cold. Now possibly if someone was doing it like I did 11 years ago, sure, but then it's a heated space and makes my point.

[@bobmonztr]

So many people still buy mono panels and lay them down. Vertical bi facial is best in overcast My 465w in over cast 98% of the time 105w Lowest was 85w with the darkest clouds. As usual a battery review without lead carbon batteries in the list. -30 charge at 190 amps. With sun and snow 569w from a 465w

[@TheOldJarhead]

I should add that you agree with me without perhaps realizing it 😉 Heated space...

[@dennispeltier6142]

😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@TheOldJarhead]

😁😁😁😁

[@JOESRQFLUSA]

NOT, in FL… 😂

[@TheOldJarhead]

What?