Theorbo "Live": Bending the first rib!

Benjamin prepares the mould and bends the first rib.
Sorry for the weird format/gaps in this one. It turns out when you make a joke about your low budget camera setup you are dooming it to failure. (And let's not talk about my relationship with the editing software!)
Subscribe so you know when I schedule our upcoming live Q&A session!

[@ombelle5284]

Seeing this in live is so helpful. Theorbo making is quite a niche hobby to get into, and finding the appropriate litterature can be exhausting. I cant thank you enough for sharing this ! Edit : if you could get into the process of acquiring the bending iron in the future, that would be so neat !

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

I'm glad you enjoy these videos! This started as way to provide some entertainment during lockdown, but I also think there is value in videos of craftwork that are not accelerating a 120-hour process into 10 minutes. I hope to, in essence, video-blog the creation of this instrument with a lot of real-time explanation of each step even if there is some work done in between that gets sped up or is off camera.

[@t.e.1189]

Where can one find the earlier footage on facebook? Also, are there anymore videos following this. I want to build a lute and detailed videos on the construction are rare. Please continue to post more.

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

I'll see if I can find a way to bundle them together and link them. More videos will be coming-- hopefully soon-- but unfortunately taking video and getting it trimmed up takes a lot of time! I'm finishing up a video about making a baroque guitar mold, and I'm considering doing an instructional series on a smaller instrument.

[@paulbecket7399]

!!! tuxedo kitty !!!

[@worldentropy]

Great work. Would be really useful to publish a video detailing the making of the form, together with measurements which make it possible to make the form.

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

I think I'm going to do some videos using a lute mold to explain some of this as well as how to carve a neck block. Once this instrument is farther along I will probably circle back and build a different mold to show that process again. Thanks for watching!

[@SassyTesla]

@@benjaminkratchmer8124 BUMP. would love to see the mold, as i'm currently limited to making guitterns i'd like to start ribbing instruments!

[@chrisvroberts]

@@benjaminkratchmer8124 yes please! And thanks for this excellent video

[@Greebstreebling]

Bending the ribs is a skill that has to be acquired. I made a mould and cut out ribs, planed and scraped them to size. However, I've tried hard, and I'm not one to give up, but I can't get the ribs to bend into the correct shapes, so my Lute building project has sadly stalled.... :(

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

It takes some time to learn how the wood feels when it's ready to bend. What species, how thick, and what kind of iron are you using? I am sure your project will move forward again!

[@SassyTesla]

this is an excellent tutorial, i don't have much to complain about from this distance, your camera equipment seems to be fine lol

[@SassyTesla]

sucks that yer phone died for this tutorial though :(

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

The phone died doing what it loved, I hope.

[@SassyTesla]

@@benjaminkratchmer8124 lol

[@twokool4skool129]

Looks great. Why coat the mold in shellac instead of a spray poly or even a spray shellac, which would go 10x faster?

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

It's what I generally have on hand, it's fast to dry, and it's easy to recoat even after the form has been waxed and used. Spray shellac would work well, too.

[@Greebstreebling]

Thanks for sharing this process. I've just started making a Baroque Lute from a plan. Just building the mould and good to look ahead here to cutting and forming the ribs. It would be interesting to know whether the rib material is flat sawn or quarter sawn and if it matters...

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

Rib material is usually quartersawn unless using a wood where the figure is only seen on the flatsawn face. I've not done any side by side tests to compare, but in theory the quartersawn is more resistant to loss of shape and breakage around the curves than flatsawn.

[@Greebstreebling]

@@benjaminkratchmer8124 Thanks for reply, I acquired some quartersawn yew and just starting to trial bend that :)

[@Aqbayli80]

Thank you for all that you share with us as an art of making lutes. I would like to know how can we locate the width of the soundboard. Where exactly on the soundboard is this width located?

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

The width at the widest point can be found a number of ways. On more primitive instruments it is simply twice the highest point of the back, since they had regular hemispheres defining their shape. As the backs of lutes became more and more flattened the width was based on other geometric ratios-- I highly recommend reading the work Robert Lundberg did studying period instruments and laying out their shapes.

[@SassyTesla]

2 things: how thin did you cut that strip (i'm assuming between 1/16 and 1/8)? also did you do that dry? like no presoaking?

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

These ribs are about 1.5mm thick when they are bent. Depending on the density of the wood used they may be a bit thicker or thinner. The bending is done dry, with material this thin the heat conducts quite well through the wood without the use of water.

[@SassyTesla]

@@benjaminkratchmer8124 thanks for the reply! looking forward to more content, i'll be putting together equipment to get started soon, so these progress vids are pretty slick

[@fettahelmesbahielmesbahi3434]

Good job brother...am from morrocco..you are prof

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

Thanks! Happy to have you watching from Morocco!

[@bearshield7138]

Thank you I will be back

[@hellomate639]

How much play do you have to work with when doing this? I.e. maybe it isn't perfect, but then you tape/glue it together and it pulls it all together. How much give do you have, about?

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

There is really no room for error, the tension created by pulling a gap closed becomes a multiplying error as you work around the body, so even if the joint doesn't fail it will create distortion in the shape of the instrument seasonally that can interfere with the action. If there are gaps it is better that they be hidden by the spacer than pulled closed. I think the overall tolerance on the joint is probably in the 0.05mm range if you want a predictable outcome, but obviously much coarser instruments exist!

[@hellomate639]

@@benjaminkratchmer8124 That is pretty tight! Say I'm making my first lute, and I keep things relatively simple, and it's just going to be my own instrument, I'm guessing I could get away with a bit better tolerance than .05... But I guess you also say use spacers. Could I also use some thin shavings of wood and hide glue to hide some of these gaps, especially as I get started on making my first lute? I'm assuming that my spacers will be pretty flat. I guess I'm also a little confused on how one controls getting a hollow-shaped rib vs. a flat rib.

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

@@hellomate639 It's a bit of a complicated answer, but I'll do my best: You can definitely get away with some gaps, the limiting factors are at what point they become numerous or large enough to structurally compromise the joint, and at what point they become aesthetically ruinous. For structural purposes many small gaps or a very long but narrow one are a greater weakness than a single bad place, since the glue joint is compromised more or less equally by any gap. As long as most of your joint is good, a few bad spots might be okay. I would offer you encouragement to strive for none, as on a simpler shape like a Renaissance or early transitional lute it is not so hard and patience will get you there. For aesthetic concerns, the spacers primary function is to help disguise little alignment problems and small gaps. The sweatshops in which historic lutes were made certainly did not achieve perfection on the vast majority of instruments! With a good contrasting spacer any gaps will appear as though they are extra width in whichever part is darker; in the case of dark ribs and light spacers you have a large margin for error! With light ribs and dark spacers you have only a small percentage of the spacer width before it is visually perceived as a varying width of the line. For this reason on a first instrument if you go dark spacers I would suggest something at the wider end of what is visually pleasing--1.2mm or so-- because it gives you a little more room to hide than a more typical 0.7mm spacer will. Ribs which have a convex, concave, or compound shape rather than a flat plane intersection are shaped by intentionally deforming the rib as you plane it, sometimes this is downward pressure in certain spots, sometimes it is slightly increasing or decreasing the bend as you pass it over the plane. I hope this helps!

[@hellomate639]

@@benjaminkratchmer8124 This is amazingly helpful. Thank you so much. I'll start with an early renaissance lute with darker ribs and lighter colored spacers!

[@giocondaulloa1961]

hola Benjamin ,sera posible que compartas los planos con sus respectivas medidas?

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

I do not own the rights to these particular plans as they are not my own measurements. There are good working drawings available to purchase from the Lute Society. You can also buy measurements from many museums but be aware these are 'as is' and may require correction/interpretation to be working drawings for building from.

[@giocondaulloa1961]

como se puede conseguir los planos?

[@waelshooter6063]

is the rib really from walnut wood ? it's very shaped like to mahogany wood

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

Yes, it is! Walnut and mahogany have very similar pore structure, especially when the walnut is quartersawn like this.

[@waelshooter6063]

@@benjaminkratchmer8124 thanks for reply

[@kelargo]

Maybe try playing those facebook videos with a screen recorder running, to capture the video to your pc, and then upload to KZbin.

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

I might be able to do that, and I really do wish I had video of the process of building the mould and carving the neckblock here on KZbin. I might do a separate video of carving a neckblock for a different instrument.

[@kelargo]

@@benjaminkratchmer8124 understand. I deleted my FB account. Swear I'll never to open one again. The noise level was too high for me. Look forward to your videos. Cheers.

[@joshua2400]

that could be a good idea, either way, Jesus Christ the good true sovereign king loves you my friends may you have trust in His goodness and care, He never will abandon or forsake you

[@TheSULTAN7777]

can I know how much the thickness of the ribs please ? many thanks

[@benjaminkratchmer8124]

It depends a bit on the size of the instrument and the material chosen, but somewhere between 1mm and 2mm is typical. For this instrument they are 1.5mm.