Heresy 1.0 vs Heresy 2.0 - A Raw Numbers Review

[@nestorvetumbra]

My problem with 2.0 is that books no longer seem like dark chronicles of a legendary age, but rather simple codexes suffering from corporate insipidity.

[@margaretwood152]

They are Soulless, Gormless Corporate-ized *_Dreck & Dross._* ( " When you look closer at the *_Gloss,_* you See that it is actually *_RUST. "_* )

[@jakubgodlewski9104]

I've recently got my grubby hands on the pdf versions for all the HH1 books and I have to say, losing Bligh was such a tragedy. The man hardcarried the Heresy system, against all odds, and it crumbled the second he was gone. RIP to the absolute legend.

[@Zagdakka]

Would/could you hook a brother up?

[@jakubgodlewski9104]

@@Zagdakka certainly, simply google 'horus heresy exterminatus pdf' and you shall find an entire folder where these have been archived (wink wink)

[@DarkRavenhaft]

@@Zagdakka /tg/ usually has a continuously updated list of links posted, look for the most recent archived post.

[@margaretwood152]

▶0:00 Yep [[🪦🌹R.I.P. Alan Blighe ]] "Old Good.....New *_Bad_* " ( "Splish-splash, your Opinion* is *_Trash "_* ) ( * Being any Opinion as it pertains to HH 2.0 being better or even close to as good as HH 1.0💀 )

[@jakubgodlewski9104]

@@Zagdakka I tried, seems like my comment was taken down for some reason. Overall google it.

[@chitzkoi]

I think a better title for the Mars book would have been "The Martian Interventions". We were all disappointed when the book about the Martian Civil War contained almost no Civil War.

[@Anathema0420]

Also dark mech coming out in imperialis but not heresy proper with new units really puzzled me.

[@chitzkoi]

@@Anathema0420 I think they will do this fairly consistently to prop up Imperialis. They know that almost every Imperialis player plays Heresy, so they want to incentivise more Heresy players to play Imperialis, and moves like this are the perfect method. On paper.

[@Anathema0420]

@@chitzkoi I just dislike having books that are half assed and feel like major downgrades compared to the older books. Like Maka says, they don't use pages efficiently.

[@margaretwood152]

🤡🍀💦It's a Legitimate Joke (played on the *_Consumer_* ) ....." Just *_Consume Product,_* Then Get *_Excited_*_ Next Product "_ ...." Yatta Yatta

[@Anathema0420]

@@margaretwood152 if we stop buying their crap, they'll be forced to stop or make something worth having. The corporate need our money but if they fail we can take up and rebuild our communities as well as jobs.

[@johnroberts8793]

HH 2.0: What broke the Outer Circle?

[@TheOuterCircle]

...the fans

[@jeffers1985]

What 1.0 needed was updated red books to incorporate all the new units from the black books. I would of gotten into heresy sooner if the rules wasnt scattered through a multitude of books. I love the black books look, but the price tag and lack of availability really hurt for new players

[@jeffers1985]

Say his name and he appears, I believe in Mr Circle 👐🙌

[@istvanmitca5691]

In outer circle we trust

[@Traven158]

My only counterargument/explanation on the units (and it is a weak one) is this: Heresy 2.0 started with, at least a majority of, the units introduced in 1.0. Plus 1-2 more. GW also wanted to move models from resin to plastic. The efficiency of such leaves much to be desired, but that is what they wanted to do overall. GW's policy of "No model, no rules" makes them less inclined to make new units without models or showing how to kitbash such models. Combining these three together presents a dilemma of GW's own making: do you make new units, and thus models for those new units, or do you focus on releasing less new units to instead focus on moving models for existing units to plastic? My evidence? Name me one _brand new_ unit from 2.0 that doesn't have a model and that GW hasn't shown off a kitbash for it from existing kits.

[@tomseppanen2316]

Camba Diaz?

[@Traven158]

@@tomseppanen2316 fair. But that's from the latest book. Pretty sure they'll be making him soon.

[@Magos_Sigma]

Arcuitor Magisterium. Mechanicum loyalist exclusive elite choice. Totally new to 2.0 and no model associated.

[@CcReap3r]

Does all of the sisters of silence count?

[@Traven158]

@@CcReap3r Are there any new Sisters of Silence units for 2.0? Or were their units all ported from 1.0?

[@warhounds]

if you judge the books by the cover you can see the differense already: HH1 bookcover: tells a story of conflicts and what you should expect in a full conflict in the Horus Heresy HH2 bookcover: tells us what to buy and what you will not get in the Horus Heresy

[@lorenard993]

I think this is a fairly useful metric for comparing the two editions, the loss of fluff and full art from the new edition is probably the biggest tragedy of the whole thing. I would be curious to know what the time between the start of these books and release is, the thought being that covid disrupted production and now that we are fairly far away from it the quality of future books may improve. That is probably me just hoping in vain that things get better but fools love to hope.

[@virado255]

2.0 makes me miss Blighe quite a lot.

[@Anathema0420]

Exactly, you can feel the love and care put in each book, new books are a big step backwards in so many ways.

[@chadmrrsn]

Looking foward to the conversion critique video

[@SonOfTerra92]

Mr. circles has got a banger for us today ladies and gents.

[@donald9108]

I think it would be a good way to refresh the heresy range if they re release the heresy1.0 books with updated rules and models for heresy 2.0

[@youtubevanced4900]

8 months till you can bin all your second edition books and start buying 3rd edition books.

[@Traven158]

It's only been two years. I hope it's not a full third edition.

[@markhohenbrink5230]

​@Traven158 that's about the life cycle GW has been going for.an edition now. Killteam and AoS was a little over 3 years unless I'm wrong.

[@rutgaurxi7314]

Since the new CEO took over it's been that way, for every edition, unless it just fails out the gate, in which case it's taken out back like old nelly, and killed off. I could be wrong, but, I’m more than happy to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

[@sagacity1071]

Yeah no ill get them by other means thanks... fuck edition creepy.

[@DirtyMardi]

I doubt they’ll do more than a core rules revamp, and a possibly legiones rulebook revamp, which is definitely needed. 2.0 has been a bit half-assed, but at least we got most of the factions quickly instead of waiting years and years.

[@phantomjoker5]

rip Alan Bligh

[@PeteOfDarkness]

It's funny this video popped out on No-Heresy Thursday. In fact last actual big 30K (not EPIC, not YoyToy dolls) things of note from GW were: hobby filler with SolAux, teaser of melee weapons that was half year late (and arguably should be released along special and heavy weapons years ago) and Mechanicum book that don't Mechanicum much. But honestly, at least we aren't 40K that get F-ING NOTHING till Christmas dumpster diving for Battleforce contents. Sigmar also get slim pickings, they dropped dual battletomes in previous editions, but now it's barely Skaven and Stormcast, with no plans/rumors what will come next.

[@Kenneth-k3b]

I agree with pretty much everything, though I will say that, at least in the American prices, the books are almost half of what the black books were

[@MatthewMellow-u9r]

Same in the UK

[@kiferd1867]

Older is better

[@theruleslawyer2794]

I dunno... I can see what you are going for here. The rate of release and the rate of expansion was a lot more impressive for first edition than second edition. BUT Compare 3rd, 4th and 5th editions of 40K. 3rd Edition: All of the units re-written. Dark Eldar introduced early and Tau introduced late 3rd Ed, so 2 more big spikes in new units. 4th Edition: Not many new units. Maybe a couple with each codex. 5th Edition: Not many new units. Maybe a couple with each codex. Grey Knights and Necrons got updates. All three editions got similar number of campaign books and supplements. Yet I think we can all agree that those three editions rocked hard, so I am not 100% sure that this comparison is the best way of comparing the editions. I think the choice of content for the 2nd edition books is lacklustre. A Mechanicum Civil War book without any real Mechanicum stuff in it?! They should have kept that for When the Dark Mech was ready to go and done something else.

[@Ether_9]

Due to other reasons and nothing to do with the game, I stopped playing after buying the release box for HH2.0. Im now making Death Guard and getting back into the game after like 3 years. Hoping the game is fun and interesting like the 1st one

[@combatwombat2134]

Personally I enjoy 2.0 a lot but I also thought the first was better. I'm also glad 2.0 got lots of new people into a rule and gaming system that, even though I don't think it's as neat as the first, is still much more engaging than 40k at the moment.

[@farsonsfinest1402]

Not particularly relevant but after the recent upload of paint schemes for heresy thursday I commented the following on one of their posts What’s this? April is over, but Heresy Thursday is still alive and kicking? It turns out that there’s a lot of heresy to go around, so we’re keeping this series going until we run out of awesome things to show you. Spoiler alert: that won’t be any time soon. Copied straight from their posts etc. So they've removed that comment top kek

[@GarethMurphy40k]

Personally I prefer playing 2.0 over the first edition. I think the gameplay is better. BUT, the edition is lacking a lot of flavour. I own all the original hardback black books and I come back to them time and again. And being exclusively a Dark Angels player until recently i didnt even get rules till the end 😂 I haven't bought any of the books for the new edition. There's literally no comparison. Even getting the PDFs of them feels like I'm wasting space in my phones memory 😢

[@Gorketh]

There's a lot of chatter about "le 3rd edition" coming, with people being excited. I don't understand how people can be excited to have their books essentially made worthless when this edition was only released in 2022 (to the @ crowd, I understand the books can still be used, blah, blah). A podcast I was listening to last night was talking about 2nd Edition Old World rumour, WTF. GW could sell water as vodka and this community would still get drunk.

[@Adventurerblitz]

Because 2e sucks so anything that replaces it is a boon. If its worse you can pressure people into playing 1e and if its better at least its better than 2e.

[@regularbear]

I don't get the point of comparing new units. Heresy 1.0 is introducing a whole new game. 2.0 is just an updated version

[@TheOuterCircle]

I only included new units where there were actual new units. Heresy 1.0 introducing things like the Mastodon for example, I didn't include new legion-specific stuff for 1.0, but I did for 2.0 which actually boosted 2.0's numbers significantly!

[@ashlevrier]

HH 2.0 got me into the game. But it needs fixing. Like i would love a 3rd edition 40k style of HH

[@Flamethrower1942]

I can't stand the 2.0 30k , it's crap the idea of giving dreadnoughts wounds and vehicles armour values just broke the game , plus the flavorful legion rules are trash or op, no balance.

[@MrKoalaburger]

3.0 will see dreads get crushed into the dirt and vehicles get a boost like 40k 10th. It's gonna be silly.

[@Flamethrower1942]

@@MrKoalaburger Yeah , just play V1 everything was available and yeah not perfect but better than V2 and probably V3

[@staniszewskiwojciech7820]

Running out of ideas?

[@chadmrrsn]

Cope

[@margaretwood152]

▶0:00 "Old Good.....New *_Bad_* " ( "Splish-splash, your Opinion* is *_Trash "_* ) ( * Being any Opinion as it pertains to HH 2.0 being better or even close to as good as 1.0..... 🪦🌹R.I.P. Alan Blighe)