Martin van Beynen on the Lauren Dickason case

[@andrewlim9345]

Thanks for hosting Martin. Good to have a journalist who attended the trial of Lauren Dickason share his perspective. Lauren Dickason was suffering serious mental health issues including depression. Her husband Graham could have been more supportive and understanding. He has some responsibility for their children's death. However, this does not justify murdering her own children in a premeditated and calculated manner. The jury made the right decision. Lauren needs to face the consequences of her actions but she also needs help. Hope Justice Mander balances justice with mercy.

[@HKSMan05]

if they only give her the minimum 10 years per murder that isnt justice for the children... it was premeditated regardless of mental state she was in... 3 murders should mean you never see the light of day again and your last vision is your cell roof

[@laurethaclaassen4480]

I have to say...I take my hat of for the Judge. He acted very professional, maybe he himself is maybe a Grandfather, but he was always in control and just sticked to the point. That is how it should be done. Thank you Judge.

[@malcolmfawkes3972]

I also sat in the Courtrooms for 4.5 weeks. From a much different perspective. What I missed in this interview was: 1 No mention of the words Post Partum depression. 2 I heard "Why did she not just call her husband that night?" Not "Why did he rush off to work that week when he knew she was very ill and had experienced ideation beforehand? He had the week off work to settle in. This could have helped her and he would have been home that night." 3. No acknowledgement that one of the Defence Expert Witnesses is one of only a few who specialise in this area of Infanticide and Post Partum Depression. Was she just dismissed by a Conservative and Old School Community? Did they not hear or did they not understand that Post Partum Depressiion can last a lifetime, not just a few months?? The Crown Expert Witnesses were not aware of this although one did accede to the possibilty of Infanticide. 4. 3 Expert Witnesses said Infanticide due to Post Partum symptoms. Did the Jury not hear this? 5. Maybe no theatrics were noted I certainly picked up The Crown Brain Washing everyone through constant repetition of words like Angry and "How the f*ck am I going to pull that cr*p out of my *#sehole within a week?" Everyone heard all the texts once, why all the repetition except for brainwashing? And why no respect shown to Ch...t.l Graphic Designer. We all knew her name, why not call her by her name unless it was a means to demean her and her texts and Lauren? 6. No reference to the fact that no scientific research has been done by forensic psychiatrists on what texts say about the mental health of people? 7. No reference in the interview to the very many cases around the world where women have done the same thing but been found to have been insane at the time. E.g. 2 recent cases in Australia, the famous Yates case in the USA, 5 children, and the one in England 5 years ago, 3 children. This is not the first time this has happened, and unfortunately not the last. 8. The Police interview should not have happened as Lauren was not discharged by a Psychiatrist after attempting suicide. I don’t think the suicide attempt was mentioned in this Platform discussion.? 9. Was there really a Boy in the Park? Police cannot prove it. 10. One of the Crown Expert Witnesses is not qualified in Forensic Psychiatry. But then nor are you or I. So I think Martin you may be the best Journo in NZ but nevertheless you have been selective in your reporting here I think. The Right of a Journo! I think the verdict has been a kick in the teeth for Women's Mental Health and we hope it goes to Appeal. PS sorry that I could not give you the interview you requested at Court.

[@madhatter4173]

I agree wholeheartedly with every single point. I'm curious about the Graphic Designer you mentioned? I was quite shocked that in NZ where a bazillion Afrikaans speaking South Africans live, they used Google Translate for the texts. The Crown also pulled one helluva dirty trick when showing texts out of context.

[@JohanThiart]

Fair enough. But ultimately she was found guilty of a triple murder and the jury found that there was “no extenuating circumstances”. What is the objective of our justice system? To punish people for their crimes or to keep society safe?? What triggered this sad situation? Look no further than the insistence by Immigration NZ for a second opinion on her mental health. She was convinced that she will be separated from her family or that she will be the cause of the family being sent packing back to SA. Crazy!! No sane person would react like that!? But not demonised capacity. Immigration NZ did not cause her actions. Mental health issues - no argument there. She and her family are already serving a life sentence!!

[@jasonyoung1230]

At the end of the day, she killed her three girls with her bare hands. Pure evil, regardless of her mental state. The only appropriate sentence is death. She is the lowest of the low. I’m so sick of the mental health card being used in cases like this. Of course she is mental, she killed her kids ffs. By your logic, every murderer could pull the mental health excuse.

[@JohanThiart]

@@madhatter4173 I think “the bazillion Saffas” use Google translate from Afrikaans to English. There are many Afrikaans speakers in NZ but most Saffas in NZ struggle speaking Afrikaans, especially those who have grown and are growing up here. Very few Saffa families living outside South Africa speak Afrikaans as “a priority”. Speaking Afrikaans causes one to think in Afrikaans and that is a distraction.

[@madhatter4173]

@@JohanThiart seriously? You do realise that there is a huge group of fresh Afrikaans emigrants in NZ, no? The biggest emigration from SA to NZ has been in the last 30 years so hardly that long and they still have family in SA who they communicate with. Btw I grew up Afrikaans but married someone who is English speaking and even though Afrikaans hasn't been my home language in the past 29 years I can still speak perfect Afrikaans.

[@sue.F]

The camera needs to back up a touch, the extreme closeups are scary

[@gailcullinan]

Why is Dickason's sentencing hearing set down during December 2023? Is there some kind of applicaition in the process of being presented at court to deport her to South Africa to serve no sentence? How can a matter receive a deportation order outside of the jurisdiction where it arose? The length of time from conviction to sentencing is bizarre and most unusual in any legal terms

[@plc2866]

I can’t believe that’s the decision when a psychiatrist says he would have committed her on the day she did it. Her husband should be standing next to her answering for this as well. He must have known! To leave her alone with children was crazy!

[@HumanimalChannel]

There is a case in US right now.. same thing... husband stupidlynwent off on errands the wide set him. He knew she was homocidal. He toddled off and lindsay clancy killed their three small childr3b. She the stabbed at herself ineffectually then jumped out a window. She is a paraplegic now

[@normavanjaarsveld5997]

LIFE WITH OUT PAROLE

[@annekevandenberg1635]

There is no doubt she killed her children. There is no doubt she knew what she was doing. There is no doubt that it was premeditated. There is no doubt she was not in her right mind. A person must be found guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. It is understandable if some people have doubts about the verdict.

[@madhatter4173]

What people seem to interpret as 'premeditated' in this case sounds far more like intrusive thoughts/ideations which can accompany PPD and is the reason why she told her husband about it. One would hardly share those if you were planning a murder

[@davidmorrison3211]

What will the judgement be on those who have performed abortions.

[@patriciaspiers1574]

You will be surprised how much thinking a person who is psychotic does and believe their thoughts

[@JohanThiart]

Hell that would drive anyone crazy person over the edge. Thanks, now I understand what triggered the sad event.

[@buffymckinnon6083]

I was in law school in 2007 when Bain's conviction was quashed. I read the privy council decision and the transcript from the original trial. The police did screw up the original case and quashed was right, however ANYONE who researched the facts on the Bain case believe David is guilty. Talk to many top lawyers they will say the same. The jury was emotionally loaded prior and the crown case didn't look as CSI as the defense. David not only killed his family but he was compensated for it ... I will read "Black Hands"

[@davidmontgomery2448]

Not only was it a contact gunshot wound but an immaculate suicide trajectory. The crime was solved immediately.

[@JOYSILVERWOOD1]

Of course Bain killed his family the evidence speaks for itself

[@sarahsidnell4621]

Aa😮

[@sue.F]

Possibly not a book but there would be an audience for an in-depth article exploring the psychology of women killers.

[@annekevandenberg1635]

Clear plot to build on and follow... From a professional lifestyle in South Africa. Husband really wants a family. Challenges of the conception of children. Mentally unwell but having support with children. Husband wants new life in NZ. Preparing to move to NZ physically and mentally. Moving to a new life in NZ. Pandemic, Quarantine with children, Stress. Different home and lifestyle in NZ. Mentally unwell, no support like she had in South Africa. Husband busy working/socialising. Not coping and finally snapping. Kills children and makes attempt to kill herself. Husband comes home and finds a horrific scene. Wife wakes up, police arrest her and question her. Husband returns to South Africa. Eventual trial and guilty verdict. Wife's parents blame mental illness. Husband silent...getting on with life. The end?

[@patriciaspiers1574]

Before anybody giving their opinion please live with somebody who is mentally ill. Nothing they do is of sound mind so how can you call it premeditated.

[@HumanimalChannel]

True. Dont LEAVE THEM.ALONE WITH CHILDREN