WinterJS - A New Javascript Runtime

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Article link: wasmer.io/posts/winterjs-v1
By: Arshia Ghafoori
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[@knsense]

SummerJS is just around the corner

[@lhard123l]

Just after SpringJS

[@azizsafudin]

@@lhard123lyes because we need to port it from Java

[@trustytrojan]

@@azizsafudin 💀💀💀💀💀

[@nicholashendrata]

Lets not forget about AutumnJS

[@tate_rs]

Then we will get SeasonsJS

[@weeb3277]

at this rate js runtimes will outpace new AI models.

[@nekekaminger]

I was gonna say they will outpace new js frameworks, but maybe that goes a little too far.

[@justpatrick_]

@@nekekaminger Frameworks are at 10x release speed

[@discordok7613]

@@justpatrick_ai will create the frameworks

[@Nothing_serious]

Seems like there's a Moore's Law for Javascript frameworks and runtimes.

[@monad_tcp]

I don't know why isn't anyone basically just compiling Typescript to C# or Rust or something faster at this point instead of compiling to Javascript and running in a dynamic runtime. (yes, I say compiling, `transpiling` is bullshit, its not even a word)

[@tinrab]

Why are we still benchmarking "no-op" HTTP servers? There should be higher standards for what we consider acceptable benchmarks.

[@Kane0123]

Blazingly has lost all meaning

[@lucasschneider-dev]

Blazingly should mean "puts your processor in fire"

[@_danisson]

What no-op means ?

[@Ignisami]

@@_danissonno-op = no operation. I.e.: do nothing and move on

[@fumui_]

@@_danisson no operation basically doing nothing

[@zacharythomasrobertson8471]

Let's face it. Developing a new JS framework has become the minimum requirement for an internship application at a startup that will last as long as the initial vc funding will take it.

[@wmhilton-old]

Anything less can be done by Devin 😅

[@kirayamato6128]

lol

[@Doomlovesearth2]

A Year out of school for me and I still can't get my first tech job.

[@justhit6673]

​@@Doomlovesearth2is it that bad?

[@Doomlovesearth2]

@@justhit6673 Yep.

[@StarContract]

"Hardware is 100 times faster, which let me write programs that are 100 folds slower." - Modern Web Developers

[@mephistotel87]

Ahaha, soooo true 😂

[@MemeConnoisseur]

Read it in Jonathan Blow's voice

[@Bare7a]

Yes because game devs doesn't write unoptimized games nowadays.

[@bencelaszlo666]

JS runtimes are the new to-do apps

[@_vicary]

So is just those 3 big thing again: 1. Google V8 for node 2. Apple JSC for bun 3. Mozilla SpiderMonkey for WinterJS

[@LucasBonafe]

I'm here for Mozilla...

[@_vicary]

@@LucasBonafe Which one is better nowadays? AFAIK V8 does memory great, SpiderMonkey is so-so, JSC is known to be the slowest before iOS 17.

[@user-ef3ez1lf2n]

While I was watching this video, 2 new runtimes, 8 new frontend frameworks, and approx 1 billion js libraries were released.

[@damianodamianero]

"blazing-fast" made my day

[@CashMoney450]

"Blazingly fast" is the new "making the world a better place"

[@j-dev2605]

when you just started to learn rust and need a motivation to proceed. xD i'm also a beginner BTW lol.

[@Darbokst]

how fast is a blaze anyway.

[@yamyam263]

Days since last JavaScript tool: -9000

[@kuklama0706]

0 programmers were scolded by their chief But then another one was gone, their number was FF

[@AdityaPimpalkar]

Love it when he tells his editor to do something and he doesn't listen XD

[@matronator]

I noticed this in another video as well, looks like he's slacking off :D

[@imaadhaq540]

​@@kyle8575 there are multiple very clear jumpcuts in that part of the video so it's definitely them acknowledging it and choosing to ignore it rather than just being lazy lol

[@kyle8575]

@@imaadhaq540 In that case, I stand corrected. Going to delete my original comment as I don't want to spread misinformation.

[@toast_dev]

I like the format of trying to explain things using the whiteboard

[@Flexsan]

"ahem" technically it's a blackboard.

[@Kane0123]

What’s with the all the racism guys? It’s just a board.

[@coldestbeer]

Person of color board

[@1Caja]

​@@coldestbeerSo... not-white-person board?

[@whatsanimesh]

Who needs excalidraw

[@hughmanwho]

Only trust benchmarks where you can run it yourself on your own machine and see the numbers

[@brangja4815]

Every js framework: Speed

[@DsiakMondala]

Reality: Slow + 70gb RAM per button.

[@mgord9518]

Native languages: look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power

[@Matt_Kumar]

Hey, I'm currently watching this video but I right away wanted to comment that your diagram and explanation on runtime and framework was probably the clearest I've come across yet. Thank you for this... helpful for me navigating this stuff

[@kamiljanowski7236]

That lightning reminds me of something else :P "WINAMP Winamp winamp. It really whips the lamma's ass"

[@fishercawkey]

Based-ass comment

[@oribennett6520]

Was just reading this article, and wished I had your input and boom! Here it is, thanks

[@andythedishwasher1117]

Wait a second, you had Spider Monkey right next to Tokio and we didn't even get a TOKIOOO? What have you become, Prime? I love Go as much as the next dev, but let's not forget where we came from.

[@KyleHarrisonRedacted]

Lol “Fastest” and “SpiderMonkey” are words that have no business being in the same sentence as each other

[@liorean]

To be fair, most of the speed are host questions, not scripting engine questions.

[@tjmnkrajyej]

"SpiderMonkey is not the Fastest JavaScript engine."

[@KyleHarrisonRedacted]

@@tjmnkrajyej know what? Touché.

[@monostate6629]

are we still making JavaScript runtimes? haven't we learned anything?

[@FlanPoirot]

clearly not, why do u think we keep making more electron garbage and offsetting any advancement in CPU tech by making our programs more bloated with 408349 layers of abstraction?

[@trustytrojan]

nope, we're wasting time making "flashy" new runtimes in "flashy" new languages using js engines that *aren't* v8 (💀) and not contributing to node.js... these runtimes are gonna go nowhere lmao

[@aveydotdev]

because they only know JavaScript

[@32gigs96]

@@FlanPoirotit’s not even abstraction. Just garbage.

[@mgord9518]

​@@32gigs96It's both. The JS way of doing things is framework on top of framework on top of an already slow, heavily abstracted language

[@josefaguilar2955]

I love how the thumbnail is Prime looking towards the future but as soon as you click he's shaking his head and already upset. Classic Prime 😂

[@digie3823]

I love it when there's something new in JS, it's always advertised as fastest or faster

[@__kvik]

I wrote an HTTP server in C++ using Drogon. It was ridiculously fast when serving pre-rendered pages, going up to a million req/s, easily beating Go doing the same. However, as soon as I started doing a bit of templating using various existing and naive JSON-in-the-middle approaches this dropped way down, sometimes to under 100k req/s. I then spent a bunch of time writing an inline templating engine based on libfmt that was able to go close to 700k req/s on a real workload. Oh, and by the way, the server in question was only ever intended to serve a single lone user at a time on a closed network, so that time spent turbo optimizing the hell out of it was suuuper worthy.

[@voidwalker7774]

Dude JSON makes everything slower. I use Rust/Axum and just switching from JSON to MsgPack gave 10-100 times speedup depending on message size.

[@isaac_shelton]

can't wait to see what runtime comes out next month

[@asvirts]

JavaScript is unhinged

[@TheDragShot]

Oh God, they're writing whole new JS runtimes now! Dx

[@happykill123]

I always make applications that only serve "Hello World" responses so this fits my one use-case!

[@vyteniskuciauskas]

I love that you paying attention to details. Asterisk ✳️ I was not aware of this 😅

[@a-yo9312]

2019: fastest thing in the world was release of a new JavaScript framework 2024: scratch that fastest thing in the world is release of a new js runtime environment

[@scheimong]

So we're spamming runtimes now? Javascript is truly one of the languages of all time.

[@DrakiniteOfficial]

I appreciate that the benchmark Bun uses for its built-in builder is Three.js, which is a fairly large project. It's at least a real benchmark. In a way though, their hand was forced on that front, because they were just copying the benchmark that esbuild was using, since they wanted to demonstrate that bun was faster than esbuild.

[@paulsisson8944]

I really look forward to the day I understand all the code stuff you talk about easily.

[@reaganaustin5968]

LOOK WHAT THEY NEED TO DO TO MIMIC A FRACTION OF C++'S POWER

[@kalkidanyishak3455]

new frameworks - > new runtimes - > new specific computing hardwares

[@weeb3277]

uses gimp like a pro i bet he can make a circle in 2 steps

[@microcolonel]

Real men draw circles freehand.

[@kratosgodofwar777]

I draw circles using the html canvas API

[@TJYouToob]

I fully enjoyed* this video.

[@jithinkg9865]

Can’t resist, I’m gonna day it. ‘Blazingly fast’

[@zwerko]

If only people invested all this effort into something that makes sense, unlike JS on backend (or anywhere else, really)... For some reason, re-lipsticking the pig seems to be the preferred modus operandi of our industry.

[@fishplayer6320]

Then... invested the effort somewhere else yourself? Such a weird take, let the people build the stuff they want.

[@BusinessWolf1]

Maybe don't yell at water for flowing and instead get a hose?

[@lastink444]

thanks for hands-on test/duel between go and bun

[@Vinu-kj6qg]

Cant we create a compiler that compiles js code to machine code that is optimised and all the good stuff that will make js a good option for the server?

[@FirstYokai]

Just use another language lol

[@Vinu-kj6qg]

@@FirstYokai yeah i currently do my backend codes with spring boot.....but is it possible in js thats the question

[@hamBurg101]

​@@FirstYokai bravo problem solved🤦🤦

[@32gigs96]

@@Vinu-kj6qgit’s literally v8. V8 does this. It’s a JIT compiler

[@retropaganda8442]

JS is not a static language, so, no, it can't be optimized.

[@johnlovell8299]

I started ingoring newJS Runtimes and Frameworks. For my needs, I can still use NodeJS and get everything done. :)

[@it_is_random]

Spidermonkey best name ever

[@ISKLEMMI]

Presumably by "executed natively," they mean when WinterJS is compiled to x86-64 (or some other native instruction set) versus it being compiled to WASM to run inside of a browser-like application. They're not taking about the JavaScript code itself.

[@kira.herself]

when do we get a package manager and registry for runtimes?

[@wlockuz4467]

Can't wait for SummerJS, MonsoonJS, SpringJS, FallJS

[@HerrSiering]

Absolutely here for the Mario Kart reference! ⚡️

[@frankdearr2772]

great topic, thanks 👍

[@TheBearmoth]

XNA... That was a shoutout I was not expecting!

[@rmcoder23]

bro my brain can't handle this anymore, that fact that I just started installing bun hours ago 💀

[@diegoramiro25]

The Winter is coming ❄️

[@ahallock]

Time to update my project to use the new runtime. This will fix all my problems

[@devwckd]

I was gonna say something about "haha javascript runtimes are the new javascript frameworks" but then I saw its made by wasmer and I went like 🥰🥰

[@stefanalecu9532]

Your statement isn't incorrect and I don't get why Wasmer doing it is better

[@himalczyk258]

Goood video, although, lets check if there is something new already out maybe 😅

[@renejotas]

the new js framework everyday became the new js runtime everyday

[@psybertao]

"...because at the end of the day, you're still running JavaScript."🏆

[@jabuci]

WinterJS? Sounds cool!

[@Kashi754]

We've switched from constant releases of new JS frameworks to full JS runtimes. What's next?

[@spageen]

I’ll just close my eyes for 1 year and let all these frameworks battle it out

[@Jesusisinvincible]

I love your prime time

[@anarabdullazad4649]

Winter is coming

[@KvapuJanjalia]

December.js Jaunary.js February.js and so on.

[@AQWLxRaN]

Can't believe Theo did "TOKIOOOOOOOO" and Prime didn't Sadge

[@RenderingUser]

Days since new js runtime: 0

[@noredine]

So, it doesn't matter with simple workloads, but how handles your use cases?

[@brssnkl]

We want NUMBER GO BIG!

[@anarhistul7257]

About fucking time for a new JS something

[@PeterSahanaya]

HAHAHAHA

[@lpls]

Lua got mentioned! 🇧🇷

[@le_moski]

Finally I'm able to start my wasmedging streak

[@codingprograms2078]

Love this guy, bro😂😂😂😂

[@hanifarroisimukhlis5989]

Last few days i successfully compiles Boa (JS runtime in Rust) to pure WASM, no WASI, no bindgen. So i guess that's a plus.

[@PiotrPavel]

They are multiplying like Bacteria

[@_aurora60]

From the creators of “yet another JS framework”… YET ANOTHER JS RUNTIME :D

[@deatho0ne587]

Sale a new JS runtime to a group that is using VSC (roughly mid 2016), NodeJS before 14, Angular 11, and will not give their devs "ng" command access. For those that do not know what is "ng", it is sort of like "npx" but specifically for Angular builds. To get those commands to work you have to put those "ng" commands into package.json

[@LuisRebaixado]

LOL took me a while to notice it was your Pixel that was getting notifications and not mine.

[@randompep]

Before we find out that it was written by Devin 😂😂

[@LaughingRam]

WinterJs Is Coming

[@rjwhite4424]

When you shout you sound like Michael Scott from the Office

[@rajarshiparmar1990]

Its so nice that Nikola Tesla explains us computer science.

[@JohnSmith-gu9gl]

when will we get a Rust powered JS runtime?

[@user-tb4ig7qh9b]

I am thinking about writing a rollup alternative in zig

[@tacklemcclean]

Idea: take Primeagens "whiteboard" character drawings and turn it into a font. Then use that font while coding. In VSCode

[@kingnick6260]

Shoutout to all of the Super Mario Kart enthusiasts, for those who are actually aware of its existence

[@ruaidhrilumsden]

You get the lightening bolt in Mario Kart when you're losing really badly. The only thing you should feel then is shame, utter shame!

[@djcardwell]

You should make a channel dedicated to roasting javascript lol.

[@Kay8B]

"Hey flip edit this...." Flip does not edit and we watch prime awkwardly mumble to himself setting up a new project 🤣🤣

[@CashMoney450]

Just to be sure, is it blazingly fast?

[@atiedebee1020]

It wont take long before there are more JavaScript runtimes than C compilers.

[@lucaspham5238]

they released new JS framework like every nanosecond

[@thinktwice5035]

is this linked to WinterCMS? Even the logo appears to be the same.

[@enisjasarovic691]

Rip Bun, rip.. and yet we all still use node

[@Wielorybkek]

I'm telling you, soon someone will come up with a "runtime manager"

[@CameronBrown-ph9do]

Someone seeing 17 standards "we need one universal standard!" 2 months later "There are now 43 standards, maybe we need one standard"

[@ThomasPoth]

* != valid

[@mateusvmv]

I see Flip is still doing his job properly, and Prime is none the wiser lmao

[@deado7282]

Waiting for spring.js or fall.js

[@Kevin-jc1fx]

Instead of taking a plane, some people keep trying to make their bike faster. 😂

[@DavidAlsh]

I've been trying to embed a JavaScript runtime into my Rust tool to use as an engine to execute user-written plugins in. Spent the last 2 weeks trying to figure out how to embed Deno and wholey bejesus is that project a mess. All I need is compatibility with the Node.js standard library - maybe I'll try again with Winter

[@mgord9518]

Why not something like Lua? (assuming you have the flexibility to choose the language)

[@DavidAlsh]

@@mgord9518 I have added a general purpose "PluginEngine" trait giving me the ability to add any runtime for use as a plugin engine (Lua, wasm, Deno, Node.js, abi_stable rust, etc). In the web world, a lot of tooling, and consequently their plugins, are written in JavaScript. Unsurprisingly, JavaScript developers are familiar with JavaScript, so supporting JS plugins is a must.

[@sekki2554]

You mean „a cozy alternative“ 😉

[@uFamous_Breakfast1792]

Ridiculously fast 😂 all i heard was about been fast in entire documentation

[@Serizon_]

I agree to prime take on benchmarks.