false equivalents | qualiasoup & theramintrees [cc]

[@ofbaran]

I used to be a muslim in Turkey. I used to defend a god that did no good to me, a god that defended genocide. What changed my mind was learning English. I started to know foreigns, hang out with them. They became my friends, we are like a family now. From Wales to China, from US to Romania, I met a lot of people. My guts couldn't follow a blood soaked book which told me everyone I cared about, no matter what they did, no matter how good they were, would burn in eternal fire and suffering. I snapped and decided, if everyone I love must burn then so shall I and looked into atheism. I'm free now and funny enough, accepting that I will not go anywhere after death is easier to the heart than accepting everyone I love will burn forever.

[@firstnamelastname7244]

The idea of hell really is sick.

[@g.c.5065]

What support do you receive from other atheists in the world? Do the people in the community , family, etc. know that you are atheist now ?

[@Reason1717]

@@justsomejerk2433 , You made a sound choice. Any creator of this amazing Universe would not be lowered to such a base emotion as cruelty. The very concept of "burning forever" is devoid of forgiveness and justice and sanity.

[@DamianSzajnowski]

First of all, we don't know what death is and if it is life's end, nothingness is not a feeling. Literally nothing to worry about.

[@ofbaran]

I have read all the replies on my comment and I appreciate every single one of you for your kind words. I am hiding the fact that I stopped believing in from my family and the relatives around me as I fear being shunned and deprived of support I need as a university student. My brothers are also atheists in hiding but they live more distant than the rest of the family. One of them has married someone with similiar opinions about religion. About me? University is a place I can express myself more openly than my family. In my country there isn't that much of religious dogma gladly but there is still in-family tensions. Of course, hiding and attending to prayers by force is depressing but one day I will be standing on my own, away from all this.

[@Whatsevenhappeningrightnow]

Reminds me of school. Hitting back makes you just as bad as the bullies and your getting suspended too. If you respond in any way other than telling a teacher who wont listen your “just as bad”

[@tokuko9027]

Ah, yes, the infamous self defense persecution. In the beginning of the year, our principal gathered us up into the cafeteria and told us that whenever we were attacked, we should, "Cover your faces and yell 'Stop!' 'Help!'" Because if you're being beaten to a pulp, telling the attacker to 'just stop' is an excellent idea.

[@lemsip207]

With religious people it's best to ignore or even avoid them & hope they go away. It's the only thing they understand. They see you fighting back as persecution.

[@DopaminedotSeek3rcolonthree]

@@lemsip207 In the context of the Family, ignoring them is also seen as persecution. See Double Binds.

[@HomeFromFarAway]

schools are inherently designed to be abusive

[@HomeFromFarAway]

​@@DopaminedotSeek3rcolonthreevery much so. The "estranged parent of adult children" movement is literally a whole movement!

[@Reason1717]

As a resident of The U.S. I can say with a degree of certainty, many schools in the U.S. would be wise to show this video if for nothing else, to stir thought. As always fine work Theramin Trees.

[@EmperorDionx]

are you crazy? That would make students actually conjure critical thinking and logic.......schools cant have that

[@Reason1717]

@@EmperorDionx , 1- Yes I am crazy ( I wear white after labor day) 2- You are right... besides the students would have to put down their cell phones... it was a departure from reality I'll admit.

[@kathryngeeslin9509]

They don't have to put down their cell phones - I'm on mine now. This is an excellent use of smartphone technology.

[@Reason1717]

@@kathryngeeslin9509 , my shakey attempt at humor was meant for today's "teens" of which I would venture to say you are not. But if I am wrong and you are a teen, then bravo to you young lady you are a head of the curve. I think we can agree on this point though, these videos are a treasure.

[@kathryngeeslin9509]

@@Reason1717 I am indeed not a teen, far from it, though people my age seem unable to have a meal without their mini tv screen. Instead of tv dinners on movable tables before the tv, we have portable computer screens at every table. But I would never object to Theramin Trees.

[@hexzyle]

"The SPCO aims to respect and protect the legimate rights of all individuals" By making the rights they don't respect illegitimate.

[@LukeSumIpsePatremTe]

Also if you criticize them, they can paint you as non-respectful and attacking.

[@resourcedragon]

@@LukeSumIpsePatremTe : And apostate, Mr Vader.

[@derkylos]

If all the people that disagree with you are dead, no one disagrees with you.

[@hexzyle]

@@derkylos galaxy brain

[@michelguevara151]

bit like feminists demanding equal rights as long as you aren't male..

[@tomcruise1492]

ah yes, the timeless tactic of jumping into a conversation, say "both sides are stupid" and leave like a true intellectual 😎

[@nikkcrespo1969]

Reddit moment

[@lemmonboy6459]

“Both sides are stupid” “Would you like to elaborate?” “No” **leaves**

[@exploitation_restoration]

@@lemmonboy6459 LMFAO

[@homoerectus744]

I know that I know nothing.

[@DR3ADER1]

Usually, both sides ARE idiots, it's the Horseshoe Fallacy in its simplest form. Remember what Mr Murrow said about the obvious taking longer for most people to notice. Rings true in any environment, online and offline.

[@adapple7518]

it's like how in the same-sex marriage debate, anti-gay groups gave an equivalence between asking for special rights and asking to marry.

[@AsmodeusMictian]

You should check out where preachers far and wide equated same-sex marriage with a slippery slope to people marrying inanimate objects, animals, and...OF COURSE....children. Because they're ALWAYS 'thinking of the children'. (I really wish they'd stop. :( )

[@WanderTheNomad]

@@AsmodeusMictian I'm pretty sure I've heard stories of people marrying inanimate objects, though I didn't hear much objection to them.

[@mslightbulb]

Wander the Nomad oh yeah. I’ve seen that.

[@alwayschill4522]

@@AsmodeusMictian im pretty sure priests are thinking of the children in... others ways, lets just say. especially if there catholic or jw.

[@AsmodeusMictian]

@@alwayschill4522 "Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Votaire More and more in the last 8-12 years, this haunts me.

[@john-3642]

It's scary how many people out there use such dishonest techniques. Thank you for the elaborate insights

[@KLSeba]

It's in every day life. I started to pay more attention to words after watching his earlier videos about religion and the language used to manipulate the religious flocks. Then went of reading about different "logical fallacies" and found quran, the Friday prayer and speeches conducted by our spiritual leaders, literally filled with it. Even worse, I see how people i respect and (used to) like, resource in manipulations, small and big, to get their way, or way out of consequences, using the very same methods.

[@john-3642]

@@KLSeba And not only that, it's even more confusing when people do it without being aware of it. It's impossible at times to establish whether they are using such dishonest methods intentionally or whether they are just coping; especially when they go on to dishonestly hide the abuse

[@nicholas3354]

Talk about scary: here in the United States, murder of babies today already outnumbers the murder commited by the secular governmental apparatus. To be absent a belief is to say one does not know if or if-not; this is called Agnosticism. Atheism is the conclusive belief that there is/are no divinit(y/ies). To believe one knows there is no Divinity holds epistemological burden of proof; atheists who desire to dodge this (because they have failed Epistemology) will redefine their Atheism as Agnosticism. Why not just claim Agnosticism? Because they honestly are atheists. - Doctrine: Divinity is a quality that does not exist, in most cases; any and all non-physical qualities and entities are sourced from the physical, and in many cases; non-physical qualities of Reality are actually only delusional constructions. Ritual: in some cases; none, in some cases; pride marches, and in some cases; individualistic and/or group participated atheism-reinforcement patterns. Worship: delusional levels of bias, and in some cases; child sacrifice called abortion. Symbolism: Epistimology symbolizing Science, vector shaped "A" with a circular-surrounding(often a snake implying and/or double helixed look to it) symbolizing Atheism, vectors symbolizing Atheism, fish with feet symbolizing purely physical Creator and monkey to chimp to human-like fictional creature to human symbolizing purely physical source to biodiversity. Scripture: huge list of epistemological texts falsely deemed as Science (justified by referencing a few pieces of Science), and huge list of philosophical texts usually biased beyond reasonableness. Mythology: astronomical measurement (justified by dark[unobserved/non-scienced] matter), observation of the distant past (justified by extrapolating sloppy short-term science), non-intelligent source of physicality (refuted by quantum physics), and purely physical source of life and biodiversity (powerfully, though not conclusively, refuted by Science; conclusively refuted by Reason applied to Science). Sacred items: in some cases; none, in most cases; ego, in some cases; sex (to the point of denying natural results, even to the point of murder), in many cases; propoganda systems such as academia, mass-media mythologies, etc. Faith (trust): trust that all indications of intelligence-sourced physicality are actually only a lack of complete knowledge, trust that Epistemology is Science if there are a few scientific references sprinkled in, and in most cases; trust that those who would benefit from a delusional populace would never dishonestly conspire to do so, unless they blatantly declare their ideas to be religious or spiritual. - Talk about a slanted scale... well, actually, slanting the base of a scale has no impact on the balancing properties of the two platforms; rather you need to move the pivot off center to cause that affect on the platforms. Note: Dark matter is a non-scientific explanation for the fact that, according to an assumption of gravity-alone, there is about 19-times more matter in this galaxy than what humanity can observe. Being that there is a huge energy at the center of the galaxy, the more likely explanation is that other force(s) (probably electro-magnetic) are applied to keep galactic objects in their patterned places within the galaxies. This means that, most likely, all measures of astronomical distances are calculated in 95% ignorance of Science. Even if dark matter is the correct explanation, the distances are assumptions because 95% of the needed facts are unavailable. Note: Quantum Physics is a mathematical model, scientifically well-tested, which accounts for information from beyond the natural universe. That is to say that our natural universe cannot hold enough information to sustain itself, so it is super-naturally sustained (sustained by information from beyond-nature; not insinuating any explanation of what the super-natural qualit(y/ies) is/are). Indications do imply that a beyond-nature physicality as the information source (such as a computer or brain) would have this same necessity for information from beyond it's own nature, and thus implies an infinite regress. Therefor a Fact-Of-Fact is the most likely candidate as the explanation of quantum science. This Fact-Of-Fact was hypothesized long ago by Hebraic phrophetic revelations and, in Christianity, is called God The Father.

[@Seppevh]

@@nicholas3354 Making a bunch of false equivalencies as a comment to a video about them, brave.

[@nicholas3354]

@@Seppevh I didn't mention anything as equivalent to anything. I only addressed Atheism with some clarity about the distinction between Atheism and Agnosticism. Equivocation requires addressing two topics. Believe me, there is little equivalence between Atheism and Truth. I admit, the video was on pause when I wrote that list. Good thing I was careful between fundamental Atheism and specific atheisms; and you'll see some points on my list don't even touch fundamental Atheism, so that is a bit of a score for this video. I see that the video does parse out the difference between honest Atheism from atheistic indoctrinations. However, I have never seen this channel parse the difference between the actual teachings of Christ-and-Scripture from religious indoctrinations; and, in not doing so, there is blatant and constant false equivocation. This channel is far from impartial, so if it is presenting itself as impartial it is an absolute dishonesty and has no credibility (Reason is credible, so that can be used to parse Truth and falseness within this channel). By blatantly stating where trusts are placed, we can then be partial and do so in honesty; but by claiming faith is not involved, one is in a position burdened to be impartial. The attempt to lump well-founded faith with un-called-for trust, such has caused most atheists to deny that they apply faith at all; thus claiming an impartiality which is actually absolutely absent. But, if they admit that evidence leads to faith, then they are in position to argue against well-founded faith; this is not the easy-win which most atheists like to assume rather than witness. As for "false equivalence": that would require something false having been stated. I stated no falseness nor equivalence.

[@booksteer7057]

There is a brilliantly written scene in "The Lord of the Rings" where Gandalf and the other allies confront Saruman when he is trapped in his tower. Saruman tries to wriggle out of his predicament using every trick he can. The best real life instance of someone turning leveling back on the leveler happened in India. The British government was trying to end the practice of "suttee" where Indian widows were cremated alive along with their dead husbands. Some Indian mucky-muck complained to a British official that, "But this is our tradition". The official said, "Yes, by all means, let us follow our traditions. My tradition when I catch a man who burns women is to hang him."

[@fourleafclover2064]

"But this is our tradition!" "Yes, by all means let us follow our traditions. My tradition when I catch a man who burns women is to hang him." That is such a badass quote, i am going to use that

[@Starcrash6984]

"It takes more faith to be an atheist." That would be a good thing, wouldn't it, if you thought faith was right up there with hope and love? Why would someone who paints faith in such a good light try to dismiss atheism for requiring faith?

[@loonachan]

Because they know that "faith" with absolutely no proof or evidence to support it is just gullibility, and they try to psychologically project that onto atheists without realizing how it reflects on them.

[@BruceAlrighty1991]

hentropy I agree with you but you might want to add “no proof and no evidence” also “ *despite mountains of contrary evidence* “ most prevalent in creationism and anti-evolution.

[@ICEknightnine]

Just place faith in yourself and those you wish to see succeed. Religion at it's core is a restriction of this faith to only be accessed after some arbitrary task is performed of which you (if you practice religion and are reading this) alone grant legitimacy. In belief there is a psychological power that one grants themselves and it should be one's own responsibility under careful consideration on how to use it rather than a set of dictations that has been written by a being who believes it knows what is best for the entire human race beyond questioning, the true epitomy of a narcissist. If you wouldn't let someone dictate how and what you should think without reasoning it themselves then why would you let anything else do the same?

[@DizzyDisco93]

Usually people who say that see god's existance is obvious.

[@robokill387]

Wanting it both ways. You've just discovered cognitive dissonance l, congratulations. It's really common with conspiracy theorists- in fact I'd use its presence as a defining characteristic of conspiracy theories.

[@5avan10]

When my narcissist ex and I divorced, she kept trying to use her manipulative control tactics on me. I was trying to take control of my life back and so I refused to be controlled anymore. She responded by telling me that I was being controlling and manipulative for telling her that I wouldn't give in to her demands.

[@MichaTheLight]

Insane people are everywhere important is that we cut them out of our life's.

[@dr.bandito60]

isn’t that just always the way...

[@BricksandBullets]

*look at us gif

[@radschele1815]

Gaslighting really sucks. I'm glad you're out of this relationship. Best wishes to your recovery.

[@Dinoslay]

Being stuck with someone like that certainly isn’t a humanizing experience. Have a speedy recovery. 👍

[@EnderCorePL]

It's ridiculous that in today's day and age we still have countries implementing capital punishments for consensual relationships and intercourse. It's ridiculous and no amount of "yOu DoN't UnDeRsTaNd ThE cUlTuRe!!!" will excuse it.

[@omerkaya8243]

Ahhh... classic Western guy and superiority complex. We know your culture is better. Just one flaw: Children brought up in single-mother homes are: 10 times more likely to abuse chemical substances, 14 times more likely to commit rape, 20 times more likely to end up in prison, and 32 times more likely to run away from home. If someone produces too much carbon dioxide it is a global problem but when you don't let society breed future criminals its is "ridiculous". Makes sense.

[@davidpacifico1019]

@@omerkaya8243Ah, so if you saw an Aztec brutalizing an innocent person you’d not intervene? After all, that person genuinely believes that the world will end if they don’t brutalize the innocent.

[@omerkaya8243]

@@davidpacifico1019 Culture can be anything from most common beverage to what is justifies execution. There are legitimate reasons why you need to execute some people for the sake of society. However, cultural inclusion doesn't automatically legitimize actions, e.g. "Aztec brutalizing innocent people." Notably, Singapore executes drug traffickers compared to some places where it is legal or lesser crime. Do you also think Singapore is savage or brutal country? If yes how does it feel to be out done by Singapore on almost any aspect like economy, education, social life etc.

[@starfishsystems]

​@@omerkaya8243 Thanks for this fine example of a Tu Quoque fallacy combined with false equivalence. It's almost as if you didn't watch the video.

[@omerkaya8243]

@@starfishsystems In a Tu Quoque fallacy, both parties can acknowledge that what they did was wrong, and they attempt to divert attention by pointing out the mistakes of others. Here is a definition I found online: Tu quoque is a fallacy in which someone asserts that their opponent’s argument must be invalid because it is inconsistent with their past words and actions. What I said is the opposite of a Tu Quoque fallacy. I'm not invalidating a point base on inconsistency. I'm validating a point base on your inconsistency. I questioned why caring about global emissions is considered a global issue (which it is, without implying it's not true or wrong), while preventing adultery is not. This might be a false equivalence, but it is certainly not a Tu Quoque fallacy.

[@HassanRadwan133]

I love the clarity of your analysis. It really hits home. I know quite a few narcissistic and abusive personalities who use these sorts of false equivalences and seek to depict you as the aggressor and/or discredit & vilify your character as a way of invalidating you and avoiding the real issues. Thank you as always.

[@TheraminTrees]

Thanks Hassan! I wonder how much human energy has been burned up over the centuries trying to wrestle sense out of narcissists. Qualia and I grew up in a narcissist family environment - it was like growing up in an Escher painting.

[@HassanRadwan133]

@@TheraminTrees Me too, sadly. I've been struggling to unpack it all for many years.

[@slimdusty6328]

@@HassanRadwan133 not that easy to unpack bad teaching. Huge struggle for some.Which is obvious when we see how many people within Christian faith group quite likely wont even unpack their own problem of what cause harm to so many others. Children are being indoctrinated with all kind of crazy ideas.Many times from the time they can begin to understand the language of their parents, parent of whom had likely also experienced the very same upbringing themselves as well to during their own youth as well.They may carry those ideas into adulthood. Hurting loads of other people along the way. Be angry and unsociable. Be horridly nasty and inhuman. It wont make it anymore ok. But even so , the reason for it goes right back to time of their early childhood. Same way that in countries children who'll grow up in poor dysfunctional family where violence is common, will also be likely to have far higher chances to end up in jails. Human are often not even one bit interested in addressing those reason why this can occur

[@inga18256]

@TheraminTrees , @Hassan Radwan Me, too. My mom was/is a furious narcissistic/abuser, and I am still unpacking the clutter in my mind, the chaos she instilled there, and I’m 38. Theramin, your videos REALLY help a lot in clearing it all up! Cordial gratitude!

[@Oswlek]

I wonder how Brunei would take a neighboring society where mocking Muhammed was mandatory and it was a crime to be a Muslim. Would he accept it as merely differing cultural standards?

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

He'd have one word upon his lips: Jihad.

[@DiaJasin]

@@theapexsurvivor9538 in WHICH SNACKBAR?!

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

@@DiaJasin Hawaii's world famous Aloha Snackbar of course!

[@joeykitty2483]

@@theapexsurvivor9538 lol, that would be a bad idea because your stifling someone else's religious expression, and therefore restricting them in that way. I don't support any of the barbaric teachings of extremists, or the people who follow the religion that way and take everything it says super literally, without taking it into and/or assigning context to it that would prove helpful and less divisive in general to others who believe/think/feel different then them. However, an action like stated in the above comment would only bring less peace and make both nations less open to interaction with each other and having what might have otherwise been positive and helpful discourse. And there are some people who want to be Muslim, believe it or not. It's not like the Islamic mystics (Sufis) don't exist. It's not like every religion just doesn't have it's beauty in art music chants etc just because thee's the dark side to it, too. I don't claim to believe any one particular religion, though, especially through any kind of divisive "one way/truth" lens, and even within my own spiritual/religious groups that i attend, mainly out of curiosity, i do my best to steer clear of extremists. No, i'm not Muslim, Christian, Jewish or any kind of faith, but I don't claim to be Atheist, either. I don't have any disrespect directed to Atheists either, though, or anyone based on simply what they believe in, especially if they were just indoctrinated into a religion at birth, and it makes no sense to hate someone whose Muslim, considering with some of these messed up countries, literally leaving the faith is a crime. You never know when someone might be just as anti Islam as you are. It could be right under your nose the whole time, and you don't realize it until you talk to the person. It takes opening up discourse and having a dialogue with them. It takes starting a conversation, and even then, they might still be fearful of reprisal for telling you, so you won't hear anything about it from them. We need to stop labeling people and start letting them be free to tell us what's on their minds, and hear them out. We need to stop making up stories and assigning our own assumptions onto people, and start listening to them, hearing them out. It is then that a magical thing called compromise and acceptance can happen. It is then that living together in truly diverse ways can happen. It is then that we can look past the things we disagree with/don't believe, and look to the content of the persons character, and how we can help each other out. And no, it's not magic due to any god or religion, or some Utopian view of the world. It's the magic of our own human nature to listen ,reason and understand our fellow humans in the world. We're all human beings with goals, dreams and aspirations that have nothing to do with religion, more often than not. We just want to be us and we just want to be heard and be done with harsh pasts that still maddeningly persist to this day, for whatever reason.

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

@@joeykitty2483 I wasn't supporting either side, nor do I particularly think that those who follow faiths with death sentences for drawing certain people are worried about good ideas or rationality.

[@gamebotpocket]

I am not disappointed with this video, the visual representationion of narcissists was clever and the topic as always needed to be talked about. If I had more money I would join your patreon.

[@nicholas3354]

Religious?

[@nyki7fykxtjxyi]

@@nicholas3354 don't you be gaslighting me. Don't you be gaslighting me here.

[@vocemesmo9703]

i always say that saying atheism is a religion and saying bald is a hair color is the same thing.

[@DuckInGameStop]

more like saying bald is a hairstyle, but yeah I get what you're saying

[@abdalrrahim]

The "your religion is influencing your judgement" argument is still very stupid tho .

[@jewels3400]

@@abdalrrahim well, it does, so...

[@doktorego8432]

Its has hair, emotions and percepcion on how you craft conclusion around neutral scientific observation. For someone some set of facts and observations can be good evidence for some not ethier too support biased belif or not. It is not about emipiric science its about forensic. Telling others that you for example dont belive in God apply that u belive he does not exist therefore it still carries belif. We all belive we all are biased toward something. From backgroud of this youtuber it is crystal clear that his parents hit all notes to create bias in him. I can relate since i had same childhood. I Became atheist in teen days for same reasons but for very different ones i am again theist.

[@abdalrrahim]

@@jewels3400 saying "your religion is influencing your judgment" is like saying "your character and your interests are influencing your judgment" like ... duh of course it does. did you expect my mind to be a blank page when I judge anything ? even an atheist can't do that. atheists think of themselves as the "default human" that had no filters added to them and that somehow makes his opinion the most objective . and that's not only a dumb way of looking at things but also feels a little supremacist.

[@NemoUtopian]

Wonderful as always, make sure you get at least a few more videos out of Qualiasoup before you untie him and let him out of the basement.

[@TheraminTrees]

Ah!!! I almost spat out my coffee reading that! Cheers Nemo :8)

[@mazenkhalil8060]

Cheers to the both of you from Egypt ❤️ I am currently obliterating all of your content. Wonderful stuff.

[@viralshark]

This is the kind of channel you click the bell for :)

[@CassieCollision]

I didn't realize I hadn't for this channel until you brought it up. Thank you!

[@Roxor128]

I don't think I ever _needed_ to click the bell, it's been so long since I subscribed.

[@Mr.Sniffles]

It’s the only KZbin channel I’m subscribed to that I’ve clicked the bell for :)

[@Remake5182]

You said it pal.

[@PCBEaR65]

Damn straight!! 👍 🤔 Does a great job of making you think critically, logically... Have been belled since subscribing, appreciated the presentation style.

[@NoNameC68]

I absolutely love the scale metaphore! No matter how much weight is falsely added, subtracted, or redistributed by the offender, the base of the scale is slanted to show the "true" weight. The arms may be adjusted by these falsehoods, but the scale itself remains true. It shows that we can't just look at whether or not the arms are equal, but that we must also look at the scale itself.

[@angelikaskoroszyn8495]

Me: It's strange that they tell you to both love and fear God. You can't do both if you want a healthy relationship Religious people: It's not about fear, you should feel respect Me: What

[@bdf2718]

Think "battered family syndrome." Of course you're meant to fear god's punishment. But he only broke your arm because you burned his sausages, which is entirely your fault, and he broke your arm with love to teach you to do better in the future.

[@MegaChickenfish]

What do we call relationships where every time you do something wrong you're in terror of extreme levels of disproportionate retribution and torment? *Abusive.*

[@cezarcatalin1406]

woah woah woah hol' up there I can't feel this fast *

[@madvulcan8964]

Think of the "To Fear God" phrase as the Western version of Eastern Karma. If you fuck up in a monumentally stupendous way he'll get you in the end.

[@LawnPygmy]

@LuthAMF Because you have no argument.

[@prawn3721]

as a Bruneian this video makes me so happy

[@justaguy6216]

Let's be honest here, even if this was implemented the police in Brunei are way too lazy to actually do anything. Like there are so many murder cases that haven't been solved. Also being such a small country, everyone was close knit and knew each other, and no one wants to rat their friends or family out. There was a trans guy in our group and pretty much everyone knew but did nothing about it. The people are really chill. But these ideas are very barbaric indeed.

[@louistournas120]

@@justaguy6216 : Then it is time to vote the clown out of office. Get a leader that wants to improve peoples lives instead of killing people he dislikes. (I'm not from Burnei so I can't vote there)

[@justaguy6216]

@@louistournas120 Firstly it's a monarchy, so basically the people have no say in who can be the next leader, the oldest prince has already been crowned. Secondly I've left the country 1 year ago and moved to Australia so now their laws don't affect me.

[@louistournas120]

@@justaguy6216 : I'm sorry to hear that there are still monarchies. But on the bright side, you can contribute to the modern society of Australia.

[@justaguy6216]

@@louistournas120 Ye, the main reason I moved out was that the universities in Brunei are trash and with my grades I moved to one of the top 8 in Australia. However if you think Brunei is bad, Saudi Arabia is way worse. There were public beheading (or at least cutting arms) once a month. All women had to be in bags (including my mom), women had no driving rights (now they do), they weren't allowed to go anywhere unless accompanied by a man. Brunei had none of those rules. The sultan is mild mannered in general. However I doesn't mean that they don't throw thier weight around. There was this news paper publisher called "The Brunei times" who wrote a factual article somewhat criticising the royal family, and overnight the company was shut down. Also the useless sultan's brother spends money of the royal treasury (which is supposed to be for the people). So much so that they ran out of money when the oil crisis hit, so they had to let go of a lot of government workers esp, expats, that's where we fucked off.

[@approximateCognition]

Thanks for this video. This is basically exactly how my dad calls me "selfish" and "demanding" when I ask to have my identity respected after coming out as trans girl, as if he's the "victim". Suddenly I'm supposedly the vilain... as if I "chose" to do this simply to spite him.

[@Nadie47]

Trans rights 😓 💙💖🤍💖💙

[@hypno5690]

Listen to your dad. Youre brainwashed

[@Nadie47]

@@hypno5690 and who brainwashed her?

[@approximateCognition]

@@Nadie47 Ignore them, they're not worth your energy

[@Nadie47]

@@approximateCognition true. If data says anything, they're gonna be outnumbered soon anyways.

[@KLSeba]

This is so close to home. We are bordering country with Brunei, and we see the same trends are happening in here, in Malaysia. Islam is constantly regressing back to the 7th century way of thinking, with people demanding harsher punishments for homosexuals, apostates and atheists, where more and more people want the introduction of archaic and barbaric Hudud laws over the leftover British judicial system. There are two observable and indisputable facts about Islam and Muslim majority nations: 1. The retrograde force of Islam is constantly calling muslims back to a 7th century way of thinking. That's why there is not a single Islamic country in the world's history, which became and maintained to be, the beacon of progress and enlightenment. 2. The current, observable state of majority of islamic countries is the greatest testimony to their devolution, and evidence that the expansion of Islam within population is directly responsible for, and proportional to, the collapse of intellectual enterprise, progress, advancement, human rights, increased illiteracy, intolerance and violence.

[@Deioth]

Your 1st point is unfair. Islamic countries were responsible for incredible advancements in philosophy, medicine, mathematics, and more many centuries ago, much more so than European countries at the time. Neil DeGrasse Tyson IIRC has a good speech on what he deems the turning point from a scientifically literate and open (for its time, anyway) society towards one of fanatical dogma rejecting human progress, inquiry, spirit, and knowledge. Been a while since I watched it, though. I cannot help but wonder if perhaps trying to remind the Islamic world of where it came from and the progress it contributed to in the world would make for a useful tool in turning it away from dogmatic extremism? People today speak with inspiration of who the next Albert Einstein or Marie Curie will be. It is far beyond time for us to also ponder who the next Ismail al-Jazari will be, as well.

[@Nancy20012]

@@Deioth Islamic Countries based their ''progress'' on the pagan civilizations of the eastern Mediterranean and the middle east area that had developed science long before them. They didn't come up with this progress and ideas by themselves. Also when you say philosophy do you mean theology? These are two different things.

[@Deioth]

@@Nancy20012 And? We all stand on the shoulders of those that came before us. Just because non and pre-Islamic cultures and societies of the region had developed and traded scientific and technical knowledge doesn't somehow delegitimize the accomplishments. And I mean philosophy.

[@Nancy20012]

Deioth what accomplishments? They just copied other people, they didn't take anything forward. Also you are wrong about philosophy. You can't have philosophy in a theocracy. You can only have theology by definition starting from the assertion that there is a god.

[@Deioth]

@@Nancy20012 If you couldn't have philosophy in theocratic societies, we'd never have had Socrates and any of the other reknown Greek thinkers let alone countless others of other eras and locales. And there have been numerous contributions, some of the more well known being Algebra and Alcohol. Try looking it up, maybe, rather than come back with a crass response? A simple google search is all you need. If you prefer KZbin, CrashCourse has a lot of good videos amongst the history and science focused content that discuss the Islamic world. We actually owe the Islamic world of antiquity a lot. What has happen to is an absolute fucking tragedy. I mean, if you are meaning to refer to *modern* Islamic contributions... yeah... the list is very, very short...

[@WorthlessWinner]

15:00 that he thinks witness testimony is good evidence is also telling

[@pansepot1490]

Also telling that only MEN are considered as witnesses. Shows an additional layer of discrimination in an already horrifying context.

[@KLSeba]

4 witnesses. Given most rapes are conducted in private and isolated setting, this makes almost impossible for rape victims to ever report a crime without being charged for sex outside of marriage. Hence why across the islamic dominion we have such low rape statistics.

[@stylis666]

@@KLSeba There's a very 'nice' story behind that. The Masked Arab did a very good video series on how well ISIS understands and follows the quran and the hadiths and The Masked Arab explains very well how the stories explain why the quranic verses are the way they are. I recommend watching it to anyone, not just to those who are interested, but especially to those who are not. Islamic literature explains itself very well and shows very unambiguously how horrid and barbaric it is and how Muhammad suited the verses after his needs. Any muslim who has read the quran and hadiths is now an ex-muslim or a terrorist.

[@nathangamble125]

@@stylis666 Moderate muslims also exist, similar to moderate Christians who don't believe most of the Bible is true.

[@stylis666]

@N/A I'll take a get out of jail for free card on this one as well XD God damn it! He has a point though. There might be cultural muslims who have read the quran and hadiths, but I highly doubt that any moderate muslim has ever read both. I mean, if you don't even care what's true or what the consequences are of passively validating dogma by embracing religion in any way, shape or form, even if they don't believe a god exists, why would you care what the books say at all? That's why I find it hard to believe that any moderate muslim, or christian for that matter, knows what their scriptures say. I bet that either of us know more about the quran and hadiths and bible than a hundred moderate 'believers' know about any one of those books.

[@jdlech]

I could listen to examples in his voice all day. It's equal parts his voice and the examples... is there such a thing as affirmation bias? One of them most common, and annoying false equivalence arguments I encounter is the assumption that an argument against X is an argument favoring Y. Just because I point out the moral failings of the Israeli government does not mean I'm all in favor of the Palestinians.... nor does it mean I hate everything Jewish. Just because I criticize police officers does not mean I favor criminals. Just because I criticize certain politicians does not mean I favor their opponents. I actually see this form of sophistry a lot.

[@ViewingChaos]

It's annoying when people do not realise a grey area or middle ground in discussion. In that grey area is where the best discussion is had.

[@lastyhopper2792]

@@ViewingChaos How could they believe in gray area, when their absolutely-the-truth-no-error-what-so-ever-can-be-found-in-here holy bible told them the following: there is only black and white, other than that, is of evil.

[@EdOfSchmed]

More relevant now: "Oh, you're criticizing Biden? You're sabotaging us. You're helping *him* get elected!"

[@jseanbrooks1]

These videos are just so good it's almost unbelievable. I can't believe that this content is free. You and your brother are modern heroes of critical thinking, logic, and reason. Peter Boghossian recommended Qualia in his book from 2012 and I've already gotten so much use from your videos. Thanks for everything you do, stay golden.

[@OublietteTight]

Well put! Agree!!

[@xanri7673]

TheraminTrees uploaded? Drop everything. I love the detail with the narcissists' "color rings" being tilted like the base of the scales.

[@coppertones7093]

Matt Fellenz also 4:25 is pleasing

[@xanri7673]

@@coppertones7093 Yeah, I really like that. It visually represents how real people feel when the scales are tilted.

[@alessandromeroli144]

Yeah it was for sure a great way to show with an image the content he was talking about but please consider that a tilted scale is not going to measure, physically speaking, differently from a non-tilted scale. It's just the way physical scales work ahahah

[@alessandromeroli144]

It's not a problem and it was really beautiful to see and listen to, I repeat no problem. Just don't take it as a physical objectivity. Maybe on a second thought, make it better for the future ahahah

[@benlang9803]

@@alessandromeroli144 I thought this was on purpose because trying to tilt the scales doesn't work.

[@DrownedInExile]

Re: the Brunei situation, to paraphrase the fictional God of Lightning: "You speak of peace, yet you court violence!"

[@DrownedInExile]

@AIFAHRA HORGGHRO It's paraphrased from Thor of the Avengers. "You speak of control, yet you court chaos!"

[@JimmyTuxTv]

love the subliminal "Sorry" playing pieces, excellent video

[@takeoffyourblinkers]

The quality of your videos never waiver my dudes, sometimes I think to myself, how the hell will you top your last video, and then the next video comes out. I love the way you dissect different parts of culture and psyche, not just religion itself. This is why it always seems so bloody relevant today.

[@smileyp4535]

I've been a fan for a really long time. Your measured approach and animation is top notch. I gotta ask though. Where did the floating fetal baby come from as a logo?

[@Unsensitive]

I swear he mentions somewhere in a video.... but don't recall

[@TheraminTrees]

Thanks. The floating foetus originally came from a dream in my teens - it was dressed in a tux. But it struck me as a nice personal metaphor: to always try to look at the world with fresh non-jaded eyes as we grow older.

[@musiqal333]

@@TheraminTrees I absolutely LOVE the animations and visuals. Very, VERY well thought out!

[@wolf1066]

@@TheraminTrees Hold on, you get dreams about floating babies wearing tuxes and I get stuck with dreams in which I'm loading vampires onto strange-looking spacecraft? I demand a refund from the dream manufacturers!

[@justarandomlad3756]

@@wolf1066 Yours doesn't sound too shabby either

[@CteCrassus]

When listening about leveling the "There was very fine people on both sides" instantly came to mind...

[@taratomlinsonphotography]

Juan Carlos Gonzalez SAME

[@blahfuckdig]

Which sides?

[@CteCrassus]

@@blahfuckdig The Nazis and the not-Nazis

[@kylelacey1212]

@@CteCrassus Don't be disingenuous and call them what they are: anarcho-communists. Trumps comment may be leveling, but the reality is that neither group is worth considering good in the slightest. He wasn't wrong that both sides probably have people that aren't insane nut jobs, but the groups as a whole are bad from every objective stance.

[@CteCrassus]

@@kylelacey1212 It's *hilarious* that you call them "anarcho-communists" when both components of that term are mutually exclusive XD Leads me to suspect you don't know what either of those terms means and are just mashing up two scary words together, like that Simpsons episode were McBein is attacked by Nazi-Communists. Additionally, even if you could argue that both groups were bad, that doesn't mean they're bad *in the same measure.* That's the kind of thinking that makes _Whataboutism_ so effective in modern times. As a final addendum, if you are in a rally, you spot a Nazi swastika and don't A) get the fuck out of there, or B) do everything in your power to extricate the offender from your midst, then by definition you're not "Very fine people". At best you are apathetic to what that symbol means, and at worst you agree with it.

[@postal_the_clown]

When a place call itself a "people's republic," it's usually neither.

[@Eldritch_Balloon]

democratic *people's republic* of korea

[@juliee593]

Same with "democratic republics"

[@jebemtigolaz]

Oh man, this has totally made me realize I've been dealing with narcissists most of my adult life. It has become impossible for me to see things in black and white. You have people who do really bad things but at the same time also do some good things. And even if they do something horrible like beating their girlfriend, they will always see themselves as the victim; A victim of being a violent person.. and the worst part is if you want to help the real victim you absolutely HAVE TO treat the aggressor as a victim too because it is the only thing that works. I almost had MY ass beat for suggesting that one should not hit their partner. "You can't tell me what to do" was the response. It can be quite challenging to see through people like these until they do something absolutely horrible and inexcusable in front of your eyes.

[@happygimp0]

If you believe that there is no free will, then you have to believe everyone involved is a victim. For me it is very clear that violent persons are also victims. I see that the most in animal abuse and killing. Most people are a victim of carnism and do not understand why it is wrong to abuse and kill animals for food, clothing and other items for pleasure (assuming they can buy plant based food).

[@jebemtigolaz]

@@happygimp0 "If you believe that there is no free will, then you have to believe everyone involved is a victim. " Um, nope? "For me it is very clear that violent persons are also victims." Not from what I've observed. They just victimize themselves for empathy. "I see that the most in animal abuse and killing. Most people are a victim of carnism and do not understand why it is wrong to abuse and kill animals for food, clothing and other items for pleasure (assuming they can buy plant based food)." Lol, I'm not interested in your vegan propaganda. Calling people carnists just shows how much of a bigoted asshole you are, so keep it to yourself.

[@happygimp0]

@jebemtigolaz Are you aware that you do exactly that what this video shows a oppressor does? With calling me an bigoted asshole while you are the one that oppresses others. With that, i do not want to judge you, i see that you are also a victim, but what you do is wrong and i want to point that out. What is wrong with calling other carnits? Either you are a vegan or you are a carnist. Why do you not like this term? I do not have a problem if someone calls me a vegan. "They just victimize themselves for empathy. " That is exactly what you do now. But i still think you are just a victim.

[@jebemtigolaz]

@@happygimp0 "Are you aware that you do exactly that what this video shows a oppressor does?" Lol, here's a quick an easy explanation; By calling me a carnist you are dehumanizing me. People who dehumanize others are assholes. You dehumanize others therefore you're an asshole. You're also prejudiced against people who eat meat AKA the very definition of being bigoted. I'm calling you a bigoted asshole because you are one. "What is wrong with calling other carnits?" It's dehumanizing people and it implies they only eat meat. Normal humans are omnivores. Not vegans and not carnists. Omnivores. "Either you are a vegan or you are a carnist." False dichotomy. " Why do you not like this term? " Why do you not like being called an asshole? The answer to your question just might be the same as mine. "That is exactly what you do now. But i still think you are just a victim." Let me get that straight; I am victimizing myself but you still think I'm a victim? I think I got my answers here. You're, sorry my expression, a bit stupid.

[@AI-tc8fv]

Lovely stuff as always, love the bit at the end at how the fixation people have at appearing to be non-judgemental. Ive seen feminists and human rights champions defend islam as one would defend an erring child who couldnt have known better

[@theangryholmesian4556]

A lot of well meaning people can't separate criticism of a belief (religion) with a hatred towards people who hold those beliefs or are perceived to hold those beliefs. I don't want Muslims to be harassed or discriminated against but I also want to be able to criticize fundamentalist Islam.

[@BlueRaven893]

A few annoying individuals of recent times have laid down false equivalencies and the same goes for myself. Thank you for making this. It'll help, especially the ones opposite of myself.

[@Sknabc]

Hell yes. Havent even watched it yet, but with a Christopher Hitchens quote right off the bat you know it's going to be good.

[@nobody8328]

*it's TheraminTrees, so you know it's going to be good!

[@nathanmckenzie904]

@@nobody8328 never been disappointed

[@onecardshort2934]

TheraminTrees would win a debate on humanism, and many related topics, against Hitchens. At least, I appreciate every one of the airtight approaches that TheraminTrees records onto their vids, while there is much to criticize Hitch for in his freeflowing lectures and the scripted ones.

[@SolarScion]

@@onecardshort2934 ^This. Hitchens was a commanding and eloquent speaker, and far too pleased with his own ability to sneer down at anyone from his patrician's imperious throne. He was great at dismantling the ramifications of the morally and intellectually bankrupt positions of religion, only to fail many other ethical issues around Western and American exceptionalism and imperialism. TheraminTrees is much more even handed and honest, and it's clear he approaches topics with humility and a view towards equanimity and the pursuit of truth. Hitchens slays in debates with people he disagrees with, but the problem is that debates are a bankrupt exercise to begin with that misses the entire point of rational and honest inquiry in lieu of 'winning' an artificially (usually) binarist war of ideologies it necessarily places each side on instead of framing it as a search for truth and understanding of which all should be equally invested.

[@edebs6243]

@@onecardshort2934 Have you ever seen the debate about US intervention in Iraq between Hitchens and Michael Parenti? Around 10 years ago I used to enjoy talks and debates involving Hitch, Harris, Dennet, Krauss, and Dawkins so much, that that was largely all I would read/watch/listen to. I couldn't get enough! I only learned about the Hitchens/Parenti debate in the last year or so. But it was still somewhat eye opening for me in ways.

[@dominicsmith5588]

One specific part that sincerely impressed me as a non-Stalinist Marxist was your identification of Stalinism as an a political totalitarian ideology rather than making a sweeping claim that Marxism, socialism or communism are. To be clear I am in no way making any assumptions with regards to your own views on Marxism, socialism or communism, that is not the issue, I simply respect that you have shown intellectual competence and integrity in making a clear distinction.

[@gearandalthefirst7027]

I found it slightly suspicious that they chose to use the sultan of Brunei, a person whose actions are pretty much already accepted as reprehensible, as an example instead of the much more common false equivalencies invented by capitalists to defend fascism and pseudo competition. Although I doubt someone educated enough in logical fallacies would be a capitalist

[@straystars2492]

@@gearandalthefirst7027 Couldn't it be *because* the sultan's actions are more widely considered reprehensible that he was used as an example? I've watched other videos about false equivalency that use more controversial topics as examples and the creators often receive criticism for allegedly making politically biased/charged content hid beneath the guise of education. In the end, it doesn't matter whether the example is correct or not; the controversial examples end up overshadowing the main subject: false equivalency.

[@thegeth4293]

@@gearandalthefirst7027 kind of like the false equivalences invented by communists to link capitalism, and liberal democracy, to facsicm?

[@IExpectedBSJustNotThisMuchBS]

I was Mo in a relationship with a rageaholic Jo. I had on occasion expressed to Jo that it would have been more helpful if he talked to me about what was bothering him before blowing up. Once, I kept my feelings to myself for longer than I might (because I wasn't quite sure how I felt) and when this came out in discussion, Jo levelled me with a bit of sarcasm about how I was supposedly good at communication. I mean, we'd been in relationship over 10 years by then and that was the first opportunity to level me with that bit of criticism. It didn't escape me with that comment that Jo would mine whatever he could absolve himself of his responsibility to deal with his anger. Needless-to-say. Jo and Mo are no longer together.

[@taiyoqun]

Glad to hear Jo is no Mo. Sorry, had to make a joke about it, hope you can laugh at it with happiness in your heart and pride in your choices. If you don't like it I'll delete it and apologize for encroaching somewhere I had no right to. But seriously, I'm happy for you, and I hope you're healing.

[@OublietteTight]

Bidding your time to really know your own feelings IS good communication. 😊

[@themachineeatsitself]

I love this channel because there's no "angle" to the lectures, the ideas are clearly expressed, and it somehow ends up being endlessly relevant in its logic. This channel is an anchor in this sea of turbulent madness, disinformation, anger, and loathing, and I shall hold on for as long as I can.

[@nkosinathimathaba4385]

Another incredible factual episode highlighting what narcissists do to tip the scale for unacceptable behaviour

[@oofsquad9358]

A bit over year ago I started watching videos like these from you, telltale, etc. I was Christian at the time, and honestly, was entirely oblivious to how ridiculous my beliefs were. I've been a sort-of closet atheist for about 8 months now, and only a couple of my friends know. If my parents or family ever found out, I'm sure I would be disowned and kicked out. Idk, I really just wanted to get this out of my system, it's really hard to keep everything you think inside you when you're surrounded by opposing beliefs.

[@ViewingChaos]

Hows it going? Hope your able to understand and figure out your thoughts on religion.

[@chrischickering1959]

Stay strong, once you move out on your own terms you will really start living.

[@Shittyrapper]

How you holding up dude?

[@poorknightofthehollowhills8489]

Be a man dammit!

[@lastyhopper2792]

Yup, told my parents, was a mistake... They, initially, threaten to kick me out "for that's the only way" for me to know god, by tasting difficult times. Thankfully I could wiggle my way out through all form of politics. Now on status quo where I had to keep seeking god, and I "humbly" comply. It's true, statistically speaking... Religious people are most likely to come from less rich region

[@AsmodeusMictian]

Thank you so much for this video! Been watching this channel off and on for a few months now and it's been truly enlightening. You've clarified things that I've been pondering and feeling for literally years now, and put much needed focus on the logic behind the manipulation and 'tricks' used by people to make the outrageous appear moral and sane.

[@OfftheChainz]

This channel is beyond amazing. The amount of insight I get from a single video is incredible

[@loosi_goosi]

I love your videos, The music, the tone of voice, animations. I have listened to many multiple times to better understand. Thank you for making these videos!

[@justanotheranimationchanne5725]

This comment section is really nice, the majority of people are very respectful of eachother and most debate without deceitful tactics. Thank you so much for starting this channel, I’m glad there are communities for people like me.

[@OublietteTight]

Agreed. Well put.

[@papasitoman]

You two have made my favourite videos for over s decade now. Brilliant artists/brothers.

[@negy2570]

"Abode of Peace" makes all my bells and alarm systems ring loudly now. The attitude of the sultan of Brunei is very common in everyday life with many people. I had people yelling at me for offending THEIR religion when I fancied being called with a nickname instead of my baptism's name, as if the relevance that baptism had for THEM could be a value that anybody in their proximity had to respect and even share. I've had psychopath abusive friends/co-worker who called me "abuser" and smeared me in the group and when called for confrontation in the group they said: there are flaws in both sides, I did this BUT you did that. Everyone agreed, but how can you agree or not agree if you were not present to the abuse? It felt surreal. I decided to go away forever. That was their scope and the protection of the abuser is still something that can be explained only with some sort of "interest" or the fact that the abuser was somehow compliant with group values. When I asked to myself: why do I end up with these sick folks on repeating pattern? Is it just so widespread or is it ME? Both things, I think. Society mostly works on power dynamics and I was too much in need for company and work to allow myself the luxury of choosing more carefully.

[@CyberiusT]

Lovely - I've always liked your stuff, and this was no exception. Top shelf work in every regard.

[@Sanquinity]

Just found your channel randomly today. And you have a new sub. Coherent, intelligent, logical explanations of the confusing mess of a thought process that's going on in my brain. A calm, soothing voice to explain it all. No flashy nonsense, just talk with some relevant illustrations. I thought I was done with atheism themed videos after having watched them for a good 10 years or so. But I could listen to your videos for hours on end. :)

[@siddhartht5491]

I am a thiest but love these videos. Because unlike other athiest video it has no rant and more relatable concept

[@coop_cap]

I am also a theist (lapsed Catholic) and these videos have both been extremely helpful and extremely uncomfortable tbh, which is good. Iron sharpens iron, and while I don’t see myself leaving religion, nor do I think TheraminTree’s ideas are perfect, I want to give props to TheraminTrees for having the balls to make the content he does.

[@mythousandfaces]

I don't think anyone has a run of 52 videos over 10+ years that are as consistently good as yours, hope you keep up the great work

[@earlgrey2130]

10 seconds in and i'm already smiling.. what a great choice of music you always have :)

[@MegaChickenfish]

I gave "secular humanism" a google to finally get a better idea of what it actually proposed, *and I've apparently been one for like 6 years.* Interesting debate on whether or not to constitute it being a religion, considering it proposes things like _searching for truth, testing your beliefs to evaluate them for any evidence, etc._ But if I did those things for years without giving them any sort of label I say schools can too.

[@klumaverik]

Damn I love your videos. They are freakishly pointed.

[@knerf999]

I really like how you always manage to give every party a consistant visual representation. With the straight and skewed line in this case for example.

[@randomname6710]

this video would cause Kent Hovind to immediately have a stroke lol.

[@leftrightandcentre833]

Having a stroke implies the existence of a brain, so I don't know about that.

[@jarrod752]

Religion: an extreme cosplay bookclub.

[@loonachan]

You laugh but the more you read about early Christianity in the Roman Empire, the more it starts to seriously resemble nerds arguing over the minutiae of their favorite fantasy novel.

[@donnypruisner7827]

Christianity: a book club stuck on one book for the longest time in recorded history

[@Codex7777]

"Chilled version"... lol. You really are living in cloud cuckoo land.

[@ElevatorEleven]

@@loonachan The sequel to another fantasy novel. Then another sequel came out by a different author but they're like no that one sucks, but there are a bunch of other people who are like nah man the third one is the best one, that's when it got good.

[@einekartoffel2490]

CollegeHumor made a vid about that a few years ago. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nX_Xn4GVec6DadE

[@Mysticus11]

Wow, having it put so clearly is indeed, sobering. Gratitude 🙏🏾

[@umwha]

The technique of 'leveling' is really valuable to know about. This was the primary way attempted discussions with my ex-partner would go wrong. He would equate the occurrence of abuse with the fact that I had the gall to bring up the occurrence of the abuse. He would drive the conversation to focus on MY faults, such as that I didn't open the conversation with the right sort of phrase, that he felt criticised by my tone. Once, I asked him, quite calmly to explain an anecdote he had told me. The anecdote, I feared, exposed an act of abuse he had committed to a past partner. He told me a warped version of the anecdote, and when I said that his current version was 'inconsistent' with what he led me to beleive with the original anecdote, he took umbridge that my use of the word 'inconsistent' was too critical. This became the sole focus of the conversation, how I used an insentiviely perjorative word, that implies he was lying, or that hes an all around terrible person. I had to acknowledge his feelings before he would calm down enough to actually discuss this anecdote. The fact that he had committed an act of abuse to a previous partner, was simply lost in the mess of a conversation. He sucsessfully used leveling, and took advantage of the fact that I want to feel like im treating people fairly, to evade having to admit fault. And he managed to concel most of his abusive history this way.

[@TheVofR]

So much equalizing has been done by people who want to be seen as accepting of others, that they diminish human rights abuses as 'cultural differences'. Some cultures are better than others, some religions are better than others - better in this case meaning less harmful/more beneficial, or more in line with reality. Can we just call it wrong when a culture doesn't let women vote or drive, or give them equal rights under the law? White guilt/privilege has something to do with people's hesitancy to do so I expect. They feel it is wrong for them to judge, but in a world without judgements there is no right and wrong and everything is permissible, including the worst atrocities.

[@goldenageofdinosaurs7192]

TheVofR I believe you’re right. That’s their false equivalency or normalizing. We say “don’t Stone gays to death, let women vote & drive.” They respond with, “You enslaved people & didn’t give blacks the right to vote till the 60’s, you’re no better than us.” I see this type of accusation used all the time when people want to normalize their behavior.

[@happygimp0]

" Can we just call it wrong when a culture doesn't let women vote or drive, or give them equal rights under the law?" Is it wrong to enslave and kill billions of animals for pleasure?

[@carolinelabbott2451]

Is it wrong to enslave and kill billions of plants for pleasure?

[@happygimp0]

@Caroline L Abbott Plants aren't sentient, so no it isn't.

[@carolinelabbott2451]

@@happygimp0 Ahh so you are a death/extinction worshipper then? Interesting. ( Edit, I know it is not worshipping exactly but it is difficult to find the right to word to exspress the concept clearer. Sorry. If you have a better word for this new/recent phenomena, I would be interested to hear it. Thank you.)

[@justaguy6216]

I used to live in Saudi Arabia where a system like SPCO was actually enforced and it was really bad. I used to live in Brunei as well and people there are very chill, you can get away with a lot without anyone ratting you out.

[@brutusmagnuson315]

“You being angry at people for being racist shows you’re every bit as intolerant as them.” …yeah, leveling is pretty common in politics. It’s also how most of the justification for Russian foreign policy

[@klumaverik]

Ok 1 more comment. I gotta listen to this one a few times to get this drilled into my head. I want to be able to refer to your videos with ease and concisely

[@WHenryGreen]

The hard work and thoughtful insight you bring to the table is a healthy and welcome addition to the dialogue in our current complicated context. Thank you!

[@0nlyThis]

Theism: the belief in extra-natural entities capable of effecting natural events. Religion: the process purported to engage such entities in human service. Since Theism is not, itself, Religion. Neither, then, can Atheism be.

[@novicewarrior8945]

had to go through a lot of crap a month or so ago , this video sheds some light on what exactly happened, i finally feel sane again , thank you

[@DutchSkeptic]

Such an incredibly good video as always

[@LimeyLassen]

"There are very fine people on both sides."

[@1funkyflyguy]

"Exactly!"

[@ThePharphis]

which people are you referring to?

[@1funkyflyguy]

@@ThePharphis The neo-Nazis march in which a women was murdered and many injured and hospitalised by a white supremacist, driving a car into a crowd of people protesting against them, prompting Trump to attempt to find false equivalence with his statements to the media, during the aftermath.

[@ThePharphis]

That's not who Trump was referring to. He condemned the white supremacists and nazis. Read the transcript and you will see that the entire narrative and framing around that press conference has been dishonest. Trump was talking about the people debating the merits of taking down statues of historical figures who were racists/slave owners/etc.

[@ddiamond6535]

ThePharphis Trump was talking about the events in Charlottesville specifically, not the overall debate over whether or not the statues should be taken down. Most of the protesters at Charlottesville were racists and Nero-Nazis, the rest of them at least were sympathizers. Those were undoubtedly the people Trump was talking about. If he had been talking about the overall debate, I would have agreed with what he said. In fact, I personally disagree with the removal of many of those statues. On this specific issue, I agree with the people who were protesting the removal of the statue, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to pretend that the were any good people in that group of protesters.

[@jofox8066]

Another super video. I really appreciate the thought that must have gone into the graphic design of your figures where biased people having a non-level baseline and then try to tilt the world so they feel level. For those folks who understand visually better than verbally like me it is a piece of genius.

[@carolinelabbott2451]

It is indeed. 🙂

[@silvertheelf]

Wow… that’s like a movie villain when they say “you and I aren’t that different” when in reality they couldn’t be more opposite and then the hero gets upset because they believe it. And then you bring up hawks and doves and confirm this is exactly what it’s like.

[@sophonax661]

9:30 Is the right head meant to symbolize Jordan Peterson? He called the Soviet Union a secular humanist state in his debate vs Matt Dillahunty.. can't remember when a public figure who I thought I knew a bit about baffled me as much as he did in this moment.. my jaw literally dropped

[@gavinriley5232]

Peterson has some pretty good insight into psychology (IMO). But literally any time he mentions religion or atheism he goes off the rails (again IMO)

[@professionalmemeenthusiast2117]

@@gavinriley5232 Yeah Peterson is a great psychologist for the most part, and he's done a lot of good for many people with mostly solid advice with some really insightful reasoning behind it. But his views on religion and atheism are confusing and concerning, and outside of that he sometimes says things that sound a lot worse than what he apparently means, usually about relationships between men and women, which seem like attempts at getting attention through controversy (which work).

[@gavinriley5232]

@@professionalmemeenthusiast2117 I kinda disagree with you about the provocative nature. I think we have simply become accustomed to a more euphemistic look on the world, but I can see how you came to your conclusion. But ultimately I agree that his rhetoric around religion is cause for concern.

[@professionalmemeenthusiast2117]

@Stale Bagelz His point about cleaning your room is that if you can't even organise your immediate surroundings you have no legitimacy in trying to organise society. It's a pretty valid point- like I said, when he's actually giving advice it does help people.

[@Robert-yc9ql]

@@gavinriley5232 That is because he has admitted to being a Christian, which means he is subject to all of the superstitious nonsense that comes with that, as well as having to swallow all of the sado-masochism related in the Bible. I believe he is a very torn man inside because he knows how narcissistic the Christian "god" is.

[@The_Tavern]

Jesus christ this channel is so fucking underrated it hurts The systematic destruction of religion on ever single fucking level is so god damn satisfying I could only wish to be so through in ANY subject

[@huhneat1076]

If only everyone who uses logical fallacies had a large diagonal line on their torso to make them easier to identify.

[@milesgualdi1917]

Your videos are so rich of contents that I watch them at least twice and it pains me that I can only like them once!

[@Peachyfruit]

Each of your videos teaches me to be more reflective and critical of myself and those around me in a more fair and honest way. Thank you.

[@jonnyblade3234]

I think this is the first time you've posted a video since I subscribed

[@sachiel197]

levelling is like denying the moral highground Mo: It's over Jo, I have the high ground Jo: You're no better than me

[@isaacshultz8128]

I love your videos! And your voice is very soothing ngl. I put then on to go to sleep too and have seen many of them more than 2 times

[@BladeTrain3r]

Loved this, taught me a bit about argumentation, highlighted some real world cases that people like to look away from, and helped a little bit with clarifying my own philosophical position.

[@EagleDarkX]

This video resonates with me really well. Had a group of friends that kept leveling my sensitivity to them being assholes to them being assholes. They told me exactly the things you're talking about. "We're both terrible people" is what one of them said. I've since realised that I didn't do anything wrong, and I don't know what I did to make them act that way. Maybe it's because I was critical of their weed usage. It's the best hypothesis I have.

[@omegalynx1750]

The vid is great and all, but is no one going to mention the music? It is incredible.

[@FoamKittyGamer]

Yes it is ironic to use "faith" and "religion" as pejoratives, if you call religion as scientific or skeptical, well... that'd be a bloody compliment!

[@edwardtimothy3581]

Can't believe he try to force loving, peaceful with stoning people to death

[@sumiben5211]

Yeah Islamic propaganda works this way

[@evilmeatloaf9994]

I'd like to thank you for these videos. My daughter is studying psychology and after sharing your channel she has also taken a real liking. Again, keep doing what you do. Also, your voice is so soothing, you must be a very accomplished therapist.

[@ssalviaa]

How am I only just finding this channel? Having recently started going to therapy I have for the first time felt validated in the belief that my family is abusive and though I know things they do are wrong I still doubt the legitimacy of my perception and idk hearing "an abuser might say xyz..." feels comforting as I have heard such things from them many times and it's a relief to even for a moment be sure I'm not wrong.

[@bigdiccmarty9335]

I want to play a game of Sorry! With Stalin pieces.

[@fionafiona1146]

But Mao or Marks (mainly in relation to his hypocrisy and family not philosophy)

[@yonatanbeer3475]

@@fionafiona1146 it's Marx

[@baronofbahlingen9662]

Admiral Sean It would be called Gulag!

[@fartpluswetone8077]

What about Genghis Khan pieces?

[@FKAAYA]

Oooo a new theramin video

[@totsuka2213]

I absolutely love your videos, very well presented.

[@sylvainprigent6234]

Once more your reflections are fascinating and remarcable, if only more people would listen to it and take these Ideas into consideration it would be an actually good step towards a better society

[@1KeyJee]

Thank you for uploading another masterpiece!

[@saintsol4928]

Another video? You spoil us too much, TheraminTrees.

[@stylis666]

Nononono! Wrong psychology! Another video? Awesome! You're almost spoiling us. I wonder what spoiled feels like. It's worth a try :p

[@ursamajor5107]

Dear host, your voice is like verbal honey, you content like intellectual caviar. Thank you.

[@apocryphonnill1180]

If anyone wants more info on the idea of the hawk and dove that was referenced then watch a video called "Simulating the Evolution of Aggression". It has to due with game theory and the prisoners dilemma.

[@TabithaElkins]

Thanks for the explanation of levelling. I see this being used by politicians all the time, not to mention people I have encountered. This false equivilence is used by all dogmatic people (not just religious people) and can be used to prop up any ideology (communism, capitalism, etc.). It's used also to falsely claim that all religions are the same, so it does not matter what you believe. "All religions" are either all good or all bad. Religion is part of the human experience and all indigenous cultures have religion, but like all ideologies, it can be misused. Atheists who put all religion in one category do not differentiate between a person like Dr. Martin Luther King or Gandhi and someone like Osama bin Laden. One may use religion to inspire love, peace and justice, or misuse religion to spread hatred and violence.

[@TheInfamousBertman]

Such a brilliant channel. I suspect you will gain many more subs in the days to come, and I'll get to say I watched you before. I loved your observations about abusive relationships with narcissists. I have been in one and you make so much sense. Oh, and I should add that I'm actually a theist (Deist). Despite this, I love your content.

[@username-rs4vf]

I know this is nitpicky but the scales being tilted from the base like they were wouldn't affect the balancing as long as the arms aren't touching the base. I like the style though it's really cool.

[@BlacksmithTWD]

It may be nitpicky, but at least it is demonstrative of having decent observation and reasoning skills. Better to critisize a minor issue correctly than critisizing a larger issue incorrectly.

[@comradewindowsill4253]

I just came down here to say the exact same thing

[@davidhinkley]

This reminds me of what's done every time that massively funded, armed and otherwise supported Israel claims to be equivalent with the people of the lands of Palestine who are living in the homes, towns and farms that have been there for millennia and are struggling just to keep them or salvage what's left and stay alive. Every argument in this video can used against the Israeli gov't, the "settlers" (thieves) and the Christian right who sponsors and covers for them. In fact, I will directing people here as my answer to their bullshit on the issue.

[@satanno2790]

My father did the same thing, he avoided the responsibility of admitting that he abused me after I came out as an atheist by shifting the blame on me and acting all hurt and shit, even though the real abuser was him. He hit me, called me names, and almost killed me. And threatened to kill me when I wanted to leave the house. And then started crying about how I was hurting his and my mom's relationship and wanted to pack and leave as if I was the one who tried to kill him and not the other way around.

[@MoskusMoskiferus1611]

Sounds like they are Narcissistic

[@bravenew1934]

14:17 “How can banning sodomy in any way *protect* family lineages?” is not a question I expected to have today but life really is full of surprises.

[@jvc92-p5m]

I just found your videos. Please continue to heal through your insight. I have the height of respect for your efforts. Thank you.