There is a HUGE PROBLEM With Wuthering Waves

A HUGE problem that Wuthering Wave faces right now with regards to echoes, that could get even worse as players progress through the game is still in the game ever since the beta test. This video will explain that problem and how it might affect players in the future.
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:31 What The Problem Is
1:53 The Echo Distributions
4:38 The 3 Costs Problem
6:35 The BIGGEST Problem
8:10 The Stats to Echo EXP
16:19 Thoughts on How It Can Be Fixed
16:49 Juggling Echoes
18:46 The Problem with Tuners
19:14 Outro
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Track:
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Monster Hunter Pokke Village Theme 1 hour
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I'm a Singaporean content creator who makes guides and gameplays for Honkai: Star Rail and various other games 🙂 Thanks for all the support, it really means a lot!
#wutheringwaves #mrpokke #gacha

[@zetsubouo4985]

If echo can be turn to EXP Theoritically i can Massacre the entire map, having enough purple and gold echo as fodder and never need to farm echo tacet field ever again I get why its like that tho, but maybe in the future echoes can be turn to Echoes energy which is Capped and reset per Weekly, thats my idea

[@IshyMimic]

It's the obvious change that has to be made imo. Doesn't have to be a crazy amount of exp, but it should be enough that people wont need to tacet field unless in dire circumstances.

[@mxrbleue]

I'm also thinking the same thing, maybe not exactly this change but they should so something about it, Also don't forget that we have to go back and farm tacet field some day cause we need that Echo Tuner we will ran out of if we keep adding subs.

[@paciliaa]

There will be people selling auto farming tool if you can feed echos to level up lol

[@ParafrostV]

You can turn your upgraded echoes into fodder if that piece gets bad stats. +25 into a plus 0 makes that into a +22

[@LuckyUnlucky2]

@@ParafrostV I foddered my +15 in a new echo and it came out with +8 and a half, I did the math and it was like 57% of the experience, which honestly feels like such a waste of xp

[@NeFlorence]

I just kinda wish there was a system similar to HSR where you can "send" your units to find materials for you. Like send out your Characters for like 20-24 hours to grab Character EXP, Weapon EXP, Echo Exp. So that way there's a passive way to get exp that's still time gated but still decrease the load on your Waveplates. Like imagine if it returns with 60-120 waveplates worth of Tacet Field EXP every 20-24 hours. You can now either go all out on more Tacet Fields or use 120 on Tacet Fields then 120 on Traces, Weapons, Ascension etc

[@whyvern6817]

It'll be cool since you gain 'intimacy' from doing dailies. Like do quests for certain factions/area in the game so we gain intimacy in which will level up and they give like credits or smth. If they are concerned abt balancing it maybe make it once a week but have more rewards idk

[@Adan.2005]

Yeah, we need expeditions I totally forgot we don't have them.

[@StripedSooner]

That system is so lame though. There’s a thousand ways they can increase xp gain, choose something more interesting lol

[@NeFlorence]

@@StripedSooner Like what? They can't just add the ability to use fodder blue/green/purple echoes as EXP cause what'll stop players from just continuously farming the world for infinite echoes and exp? It's too abusable. Add more rewards in Tacet Fields? That'll be bound to happen once we reach higher Union Levels. The only other thing is to lower the cost of Tacet Fields but what'll be the difference? You get 1-2 additional Tacet Field runs per day?

[@quangtuantran7181]

@@StripedSooner Lame, but it works. I never need to farm for character XP, credit, or LC xp in hsr because u gain more than u use. This is a simple method that almost every game has, which kinda baffles me why they didnt think of this as a solution.

[@SirePuns]

I do have an issue with basing all of this on what is essentially the midpoint. We do know for a fact that as SOL Phase goes up, the rewards also go up. The question is what does the grind look like at the highest level.

[@will8677]

This. When you get to higher SOL levels, I expect the rewards will go up for tacet fields, and the exp to level one of these will not be as big an issue as it is now. /hope-cope

[@neural8597]

True I feel union 30 is still too early to tell how the grind is later on

[@JRPGGG]

no, its important to talk about the midpoint because if it sucks then no one would want to get to higher levels. So it is important to make the midpoint experience good for casual players also.

[@Tiasung]

Not to mention people arent considering that we basically got full access to 5* relic/artifacts 3 days into the game. Those are more expensive to level up and have more levels on top of that. So it only makes sense we are running out of Echo exp so easily now.

[@reedsad4652]

Who would want to enjoy end game when atm you cant even get xp for your UL.

[@KSHeartUnderBlade]

I've been telling people this and they call me crazy for "expecting too much" 💀

[@harshpandya7834]

Lol

[@harshpandya7834]

Nvm I'm dumb

[@steffan5156]

I mean tbf it's gacha, but I agree there should be more ways to get echo xp without stamina

[@kopfgeist2717]

Yeah, I´ve been called a speedrunner on multiple occasions for bringing this up.

[@ryoujiarisato7308]

These people are just underleveled, they'll quit yapping when they hit the level where they also start feeling it.

[@thetetrisdom]

"There is a HUGE PROBLEM" and it's just regular gacha early midgame relic grind. Like who the fuck cares how long it takes to max out an echo this early in the game, the only thing that matters is how long it takes at the endgame when you have max reward level for max income.

[@kirillphomichov6101]

Exactly this. I remember the same problems was in early Genshin and star rail. Rope and orb in hsr has same rng for main stat and set. The problem with fodder is indeed because we are at low union lvl.

[@OutboundFlight87]

​@@kirillphomichov6101lol, you simply cannot fodder in WuWa. That's the problem

[@shirokun39]

i think the fact that we have access on 5* echos way too early adds as to why people want to level them up and just end up experiencing what midgame feels like again. If raising echos in UL50+ is still as bad as rn then its probably gonna be problematic later on but rn it feels like a joke to complain about since we're not even 2 weeks in the game yet

[@fateani4241]

@@kirillphomichov6101 cope, hsr is way less shitty than this system, which is fucking mind blowing

[@ishansharma2463]

No i don't think it's an early game issue. Just the fact that lv 0 echoes can't be fed is kinda weird. If the devs just allow this to happen it will be solved instantly

[@whoizrez]

This is why, in the meantime, ppl need to stop discouraging leveling 4 star echoes. They take significantly less exp to raise and use an entirely separate tuning currency. We’re still not even on the max rewards from ascension yet either so it’s probably by design to not prioritize 5 stars

[@reedsad4652]

But thats just a waste right? Lvl 10 5 stars > lvl 20 4 stars 🤷 in terms of main stats value I dont know if it affects substats roll

[@whoizrez]

@@reedsad4652 the point of it is that you get more units online faster to tackle the end game. And certain stats only exist in substat rolls. There’s no content available in the game right now that requires full 5 stars. And when that content is finally available when we hit UL40 you can still fodder the 4 stars you leveled

[@zap7737]

No lmao, that's a fucking waste. I didn't level a SINGLE echo, until I was UL30. You can beat the content fine, without leveling echos, until you get correct mainstat 5*s

[@ThisLuvee]

You also miss like 5 crit rate on the main stat going from purple to gold echo and 1 substat that may or may not be good. Their substats value are also literally the same. So if you roll 7% crit rate on 5 purple echo, you can have a build significantly better and faster than gold echo.

[@kyotheman69]

why ignored these guides, im currently just got purple open up and you get mats for them i just did Wuwa version of elysia releam or Herta verse in hsr, they have mats for upgrades and lvling

[@mallowss8336]

I've never really realized this until I started farming five star echoes for my characters yesterday. It just suddenly occurred to me that we can't use echoes to level up other echoes and there are barely any sources of echo exp materials available...

[@IshyMimic]

When I googled how to level up echoes in wuwa yesterday XD

[@Tiasung]

Well, there's pull-currency shop, holograms (one time), tower (monthly, better buy those before the month is over so they fully refresh in a few days), illusive realm (6 weeks?) battlepass (very little) but aside from that its also something we can spend stamina on.

[@zap7737]

"barely any sources" There's literally Tacet fields, that give you echos, exp AND tuners lmao.

[@mallowss8336]

@@zap7737 Do be reminded that clearing Tacet Fields require 60 stamina (which doesn't regenerate very quickly) and since we've all really only started playing a few days, the drops we get from those are barely enough to raise an echo's level from 1-10. The time and effort you need just to level up ONE echo is honestly sickening, not to mention you will also need to allot a lot of resources for other things (char level, weap level, forte) as well

[@mallowss8336]

The fix is really very easy, they just have to make it so that echos can be used to level other echos. That way, you can farm echos in the open-world (which drop rather rarely) and use them for upgrades just like in other gacha games. Makes the experience much more friendly for F2P players who can't refresh stamina very often since we get very little exp material from tacet fields anyway

[@AgataGaming]

In HSR, Caverns of Corrosion lv 6 will give you 3 piece 5* and 3 piece 4* if you lucky (CMIIW), That translate to a total of 7500 relic exp. To upgrade a 5* relic to max level you need 76000 exp. So in HSR you need 10 runs to upgrade the 5* relic if you lucky enough to get triple 5* relic every run. And there's no problem with upgrading your relic in HSR. In WW, you need 7.5 runs to upgrade 5* echo to max level, and this is at world level 35. I would assume that in max world level you will get more of those exp tube so it wont be 7.5 runs maybe 4 or 3 runs to upgrade one echo to max level. So with all that I don't really see any problem except for those that want to min max their echo at world level 35. The other things is in HSR or GI, you have to choose between using your trash relic as a exp fooder or to gamble it into a new relic, while in WW you don't need to. just recycle the trash echo because you have a separate item for the echo exp. The one thing I agree is conversion from blue and purple tuner to a gold one, because we know no one will be using blue or purple echo when they can get gold one.

[@destrct0ninja]

Honestly if they want to get exp locked behind stamina at least let us recycle echos into one tuner of the same rarity and be able to upgrade tuners.

[@nephyxx]

Really disappointed in this take by Mr. Pokke, who is normally one of the most thoughful gacha creators imo. Can't imagine him making this video about being unable to fully level multiple sets of 5 star relics in HSR (or any other gacha) within 1 week of playing -- oh wait, it's because HSR gates you from even getting 5 star relics until way way later in your account progression. The fact that I can have a complete 5 star on-set main stat echo in every slot ready to go for when I do get the XP is pretty nice, but instead it's treated as if it's a negative of the game. The worst thing Kuro could do is make level 0 echoes give experience, that just gives a massive incentive to no-life clear the map every day. I'm sure it would be great for someone who has 'account managers' just doing the work for him but for the average player that would be an incredibly poor solution. Wish he would take a step back and actually think about the context of the game and how long it's been out before making a 20 minute poorly thought out video.

[@blissfuldreamscapes21]

i think the main problem is that you dont know what substats you get until you have +25, I dont know much about genshin but in HSR, you know all the substats after one roll. but you dont know what you gonna get for wuwa cause they are new substats everytime you roll

[@haku9364]

@@blissfuldreamscapes21 I think you're forgetting that for the hsr, at least for the normal dps pieces, while you can get upgrades for cd and cr, if the piece were to have cr and cd, but all the upgrades went into the other 2 stats, then that piece is pretty much brick. However, for wuwa, if you get cr and cd as substats on an echo, then you're set for that echo. I'm not saying wuwa's substats system is better, but both has their own problems. That being said, Kuro does have a reputation for changing things for the better (like in PGR), so I think they will make some QoL changes regarding the echoes.

[@WhatTheFunct]

@@blissfuldreamscapes21The first 3 increases to unlock subs really don’t cost that much. Which is the same point you’d get to in HSR. Knowing the stats or not, the primary stat will always be the most impactful; it’s not like you get no value just because you didn’t get four great substats anyway.

[@ST1mAPB]

The problem is that green-gold relic progression is 3 days. And now at 30+ union level is month ahead to farm it. So it will be ~10 relics from stamina and ~5 from exploration. So 3 characters built to union level 40. And remember... We are supposed to play this game for years. So it's 100+ relics a year) And we really need only 9*5=45.

[@ST1mAPB]

And even at union level 80 relics will still be 25 level cap. I think the way to fix it before release would be capping max level of relics by Union level. So at 30 there wil be +15 maximum for example.

[@philipooi94]

Idk why you're assuming it won't be like GI or HSR where they introduce new crazier and crazier sets that is too big of a dps loss if you don't get them.. so you will need to constantly grind for new echoes always. Actually its not "that" bad that we're back to infinite farming relics like HSR and GI, but they were selling the game alot on the whole "unlimited" farming relics that solved GI's problem

[@janablom823]

Terrible mentality. Any sane person will hear "it only takes half a year to build out your roster" and take it as a sign to quit. It's a gacha game, and i have 0 incentive to pull characers if i know i can't build them potentially for months. Even from a monetary perspective this is self destructive.

[@amnitole2796]

@@philipooi94true but note that you can swap echoes in this games abyss, you only need one support set for your 3 teams and one dps set for each element, every room u can just swap in and swap back, idk if its intended but it makes farming so easy tbh

[@bonkbonk98]

you must be living under a cave because it takes months to build genshin and star rail artifacts/relics and they're the most successful gacha games by far. Playing a live service games for multiple years is the most normal thing

[@collisionblitz9560]

It's insane to me that people are saying this is a problem. The game is not supposed to be able to be "finished" within a week. Grinding echoes and echo exp is supposed to be the very last thing you do in the game. Of course, you're not gonna be able to do it right away. The reasons echoes don't give exp to other echoes is because you can grind them infinitely

[@Hanabis924]

That is the crux of the video. It's when you reach endgame lol

[@collisionblitz9560]

@Hanabis924 yeah but you can't expect to finish the end game in a GACHA game in a short amount of time. People say this same thing about every gacha game when it releases, give it a few months (like you're supposed to) and this won't be an issue.

[@ronmexico7256]

For some reason people were touting the game as not requiring the same grind as other similar gachas, now they’re mad when it’s just as bad. It’s a gacha I’m not sure why anyone is surprised.

[@seizerkb3225]

Oh is that so? Then why is there a resetting reward tower that will reset in 2 weeks? Surely it isn't FOMO to lure whales to spend hard to overcome these grind issues just to clear it.

[@collisionblitz9560]

@seizerkb3225 Imagine having no self-control and blaming other people for it 💀 (not aimed at you but the whales who throw momey away) Kuro Games is a business and a business needs to make money...

[@Lumiphatom]

This is only a problem if you are trying to min max at the begining of end game (60). Buddy you are not even 90 yet, you can clear the content without having maxed out stats. I would just take your time and farm. Get union levels, because level characters getting level 25 now isnt going to help clear end game faster since you are underleveled anyways.

[@RanRan_11]

The fact that people are already able to clear hologram/tower in less than a week shows that this isn't really a problem. People are just exaggerating as usual and turning this into a bigger drama than it actually is.

[@Masfugo]

people give up already before even reaching the end game

[@Lumiphatom]

@@RanRan_11 I just beat it last night, didn't have to min max. Pokke doing too much

[@Steve-uf5yf]

Nah it's good to have more gear gamba for people to do, just manage the system accordingly, that's how people stay in the gear gacha games

[@frfr12921]

​@@Masfugo The problem is that you need 3 teams Few runs can only max out 1 5* echo

[@Tiasung]

At higher SOL it becomes easier not harder. The more you level your weapon, character level and traces, the more you will realise just how powerful the Echos you already have are. Also, why the focus on ''maxing out'' echos? In Genshin and HSR everyone recommended for months to not max them out but stick to 5 levels below the cap. But it gets progressively less efficient to level them. Those last 5 levels arent worth it untill you have the rest of your team build up.

[@deadpaul6587]

Holy shit dude I cometely forgot about that. Its been so long since I've left an artifact at lvl 16

[@pupupurin143]

how is this a problem though, people are able to efficiently clear TOA without having too many maxed out echoes.. its only a problem because yall are addicted to gambling and are either on the game 24/7 or minmaxing at level 60 char 😭

[@Annime_playz]

I'm around his stage and I have the same issue but I'm not a gambling addict or a min maxer I'm ftp it's annoying to have to deal with the lack of XP

[@TemujinKojiro]

I don’t agree. Because once you get an echo set done for a particular character. That character is done even when they go to level 70,80,90.

[@RanRan_11]

And it's very easy because you don't have to waste stamina just to get the right set/piece/main stat for them. You only need to spend stamina on upgrade materials and that's it.

[@blissfuldreamscapes21]

what if you cant even get a single piece done?

[@sixlae]

Theorycrafters and guide makers when you can’t max everything first week of launch 😱

[@kairuu12]

Lol 😂

[@machijoten]

Exactly this, they're doomposting too much. tbh being able to reach highest rarity of equipment on your first week of playing is already pretty insane when compared to Genshin and Star Rail.

[@darkcastle85]

And then they complain that there's no content left to do and quit lol

[@ieatwalnut9088]

​​@@machijotennah it wouldnt be a problem if there's no rng involved . Imagine equiping the correct echo for certain character then you got all echo exp needed to upgrade all of them and most of them rolled flat and hp,def%.

[@Zero-zr6xx]

Time doesn't matter cause everyone is eventually gonna reach this level and they will also complain about the echoe xp

[@Halosar]

I hope they make it where other echoes can be used as exp.

[@harshpandya7834]

It's there

[@Halosar]

@@harshpandya7834what do you mean? You can’t use duplicate echoes for experience.

[@yeeeze7461]

​@@harshpandya7834 only the one we have already leveled, and that's with huge exp lost

[@yeeeze7461]

​​@@Halosaryeah litterly the only solution i can think of, the echo exp material is just kinda redundant with the echo tuner, like i need to farm to level them up yet i need to farm to unlock their potential too? I don't wanna say the g-game but as farming experience comparison it'll just say, at least in that one there's only one time gate, here it litterly double the time gate

[@SomeRandomDude12542]

@@Halosar you can use echos to level up another echo, but only echos that you leveled up already

[@Anorav]

This is where you should touch grass ig

[@KaiserBrasil]

we don't do that here 😆

[@Nethaxion]

Does lemongrass count?

[@infinitykiyen6270]

Nah I suffer this problems too

[@Anorav]

😂

[@AngryAny7]

I think the problem isnt that we're getting not enough xp but we're getting high rarity echos too early. Hsr and genshin both dont let u get the 5* equivalents until months into the game and u can get by with 3-4*s til then. Itd be the equivalent of maybe SOL-3 level of like maybe 5 or 6. Im assuming the xp will have gotten high enough ti allow us to elvel echos in a reasonable amt of time but here we have access to 5* echos so early that we need so much xp this early rather than later. Another issue with this is that since we get access to end game stuff too early, we'll run out of things to do and getting a new SOL level wont really do much in terms of echos so it wont feel very new whereas in the other two games i mentioned, it felt like there was a signifcicant increase every time we got a new level of mats

[@TheDeltaPlayers]

I've been waiting for this to be discussed, because I completed the data bank two days ago and farmed all Cost 3 Echos for Calcharo and Havoc Rover on the map these past days. Despite having the right main stats by now, I'm running out of EXP to level anything else right now. I looked up a video from Sweetily, where she showed the rewards from CBT2 for Union Level 40-49 and it's not looking much better than the drops for Level 30-39, where are most of us right now... As far as I know, nobody hit Union Level 50 in the two months of CBT2, which means, even if it gets way better then we are months away from better drop rates!

[@RanRan_11]

Reminder that the video from Sweetily is from a test server, which was before the game came out. Also CBT2 had less content at that time, people only reached level 45 almost at the end of the beta but now we're still less than a week in and some people are already at 35+.

[@qukong9417]

This “problem” simply stems from infinite human greed. It took 3 days to have full access to end game gear and instead of being thankful for it, people are trying to push more and more. We are UL30 goddamit, can you imagine farming for max gold relics at AR30 in genshin or HSR? We are comparing farming experience of early game WuWa with endgame genshin how does that even make sense? Also, WuWa literally UNGATED half of the stamina restricted content in farming and people just don’t seem to realize. The more you give someone, the more oblivious they become. That’s why genshin is so stingy…they’re smart enough to know that the greedy mfs will only complain MORE once they open the gates. It’s incredibly sad that in order to establish a reputation, WuWa HAD to open those gates from the start, and 5 days into the game everyone and their mother are complaining ALREADY.

[@NetjunkyXXX]

to be fair, there are quite a lot of comments which say otherwise and agree with you (and me) ... sadly titles like "huge problem" and complaining is more engaging so its basically insentivised to do so

[@BabaYaga0713]

It’s a bad take, but it seems like a popular one somehow, and then a big creator like Pokke posting this vid will spread it more, pretty bizzare imo

[@telensatsuki6817]

Bro probably forgot the higher the world level is the higher the rewards, we just got 35+ union level and unlocked the gold rarity tacet field and he already complaining why it's not enough 😂

[@toastazazine1098]

I mean, more or less we still are in the mid game since our SOL phase (world level) is only at 4 out of 8, so that does affect our rewards (like echo exp) from dungeons / Tacet Fields. It's only been 6 days since release.

[@andreabonfigli3464]

Do we know the rates for max sol rank? Cause I will agree with this the only issue I have is that wanting to max out echoes fast before hitting max rank isn’t really an issue it depends how much the last rank rewards will be, I get that it will probably still be an issue but it’s a little premature when we are barely halfway to actual endgame no?

[@billmurray7676]

None of this is relevant because our level is just way too low. In Star Rail, week 2, you just weren't farming endgame gold artifacts and upgrading them, and if you tried you would just brick your account. It's the same limitation in WuWa, just implemented in a different way.

[@zero31123]

This doesn’t need to be “fixed”, we’re literally halfway through the sol levels. 7.5 runs to max an echo is a lot but that’s just at sol 4 (the max is 8). This’ll get much better as we progress. Like in hsr you weren’t expecting to max out all relics and grind for perfect substats right after unlocking gold relics, so why is the expectation so high here?

[@pillowhead4456]

Cause in HSR, you use everything except gold Relics as the resources, which you can get from chests, salvage, etc. Meanwhile in WuWa, you cant dismantle Echoes unless youve leveled them up

[@zero31123]

@@pillowhead4456 that's because relics are stamina gated while echoes can be farmed for free. Giving echoes a base exp means everyone can level up relics infinitely as long as they have time, which isn't good for a gacha game with a stamina system. We don't lose anything compared to hsr. Relic/echo exp is still stamina gated in both games. It's just that in wuwa we can additionally farm for the right main stat pieces without using stamina.

[@Tiasung]

@@pillowhead4456 In HSR you get the overwhelming amount of Relic exp from foddering relics that you got from stamina-runs. Because most of them are worthless.

[@Seysey0520]

I highly agreed to you man. Right now mostly we are still under lvl40. Most probably we can get more loots on high LVL. We just need to relax the game it just release for a week though!✌🏻

[@MorinoTengu]

​@@pillowhead4456 good luck to farm gold relics with just half of the TL

[@michaeldascrubtarling1610]

I think if we do get a mechanic to turn echoes into echo exp it should be restricted to the set it’s part of. So thunder echoes can only be turned into xp used on other thunder echoes etc

[@adrenalmoon787]

They made the max rarity echos drop to soon. You can get max rarity echos at world level 4 but exp maxes at world level 8.

[@juno3287]

Yea the echo progression was a little too fast, like the green and blue ones literally became obsolete after 3 days of grinding echos.

[@Killer-nd9ub]

But theres still rank 5, 6, 7 and 8 SOL Tacet fields??? Who's to say the exp gained wont increase as u ascend to the higher ranks?? Currently most people are at rank 4 SOL(Union Lv 30~39), so obviously the exp from tacet fields arent that great..?

[@hansbernd49]

cant make a clickpoint misinformation video if you actually try to be fair. In genshin 1.0 by week 2 most poeple were not even able to DROP gold artifacts lmao. In HSR poeople used +16 purples for over a month. Meanwhile here lots of poeple already +25 5x gold echos with decent stats and there are still complaints. Absolute insanity. If it turns out that rewards dont improve on later SOL THEN we can riot but assuming they 2x to 3x by endgame I think its fine. Still annoying but not "killing the game lvls of bad"

[@sonnguyen-iv7gv]

@@hansbernd49 watch before you type. The point he made in the video was "too much rng to get the correct set and unnecessary grindy" _ 1-cost can only be farmed in the overworld _ 3-cost can only be dropped by elites _ a type of monster can share multiple set traces There isn't a domain to farm every pieces in a set like genshin or hsr so you're forced to find and kill a lot of things in the overworld. Tacet Domain can mitigate some of this problem but not significant because of too much rng in main stats and tuning substats. And guess what make casuals drop Genshin? Infinite artifact grinding. Combat in WW is better than Genshin, yes i do agree what that but the is limited when you have to fight the same enemies 1000 times, it won't be fun anymore. Again, people dropped Genshin because they felt it takes too much time to grind and Kuro push the grindiness up by 10 levels, what are they expecting? Are they hoping for players will spend 4hrs a day playing their game? Second main point of the video was about the tuning system and levelup an echo takes too much exp. Next time, watch before you type

[@Mix-ry8bb]

@@sonnguyen-iv7gv Watch before you type brother what @killer said still stands, he is not considering the max level tacet field tuner yield/stamina. Yes the first one still stands.

[@Mix-ry8bb]

@@sonnguyen-iv7gv I'm not sure how you think any of that disproves that pokke isn't considering that hes not doing the max yield tacet field yet, he's doing the one for lvl 36 or whatever.

[@haruzaya9529]

​@@sonnguyen-iv7gv if there are no artifacts in genshin, there is literally nothing to do in the game except events 😂 Tacet fields are basically artifact domains, and farming overworld is available so it is literally easier to get decent echoes than getting decent artifacts. If they reduce the rng we'll be finished with the game in a month or two

[@cornwell4156]

like for real why would they let ppl complete echos for 3 teams on week one. In genshin and hsr it took a month to get 2 teams semi geared and even longer to get everyone to run maxed golden aritfacts/relics. In HSR if you run out of relic exp you have to do 9 runs of relics to get enough exp for +0 to +15 and i remember it was happening a lot to me in 1.0-1.2, now most ppl are stack on resources so nobody remembers that shit.

[@jh_box]

tldr; don't invest gold echo to +25 unless you are sure that will be the final update for that echo slot. Just clear the world for more echo drops and be conservative with your resource. Like many other comments said in here. We ain't even at the end-game content. It's 1.0. Stop thinking it's a problem when there isn't one.

[@nyx4074]

I've been saying this ever since CBT 2 and people calling me Hoyo bootlicker when I'm simply telling ppl that power/stamina consumption wise and don't put the expectation to high. It's not that much different with Gi. People keep bitching that, nah, they don't need to farm like in Gi because Echoes are unlimited unlike mint games. But I've been telling them that it's not the echo that's time gated, it's the resources to level them up as well as the materials to unlock the sub-stat. Sure, stamina regen faster in WW but the cost of waveplate is higher and overall, the mats they get isn't that different than mint games. Like, the overall stamina - reward exchange is pretty much equal. It's not like WW not time gated at all when it comes to progression. Especially late game progression. In the grand of scheme, it's not much of a difference.

[@iCHRIS-x]

Mintpicker.

[@DsCrystalEyes]

either they give us ability to use echo as fodder, or massively increase EXP bottle rates, that's all I care about, like that I can cope with some bad substats on my gold rarity. The tuners should be able to be crafted into gold ones as well.

[@naufalsyauqifillah6388]

Wtf are even bring this point lol are you really that hurt to bring this shit in some guide video, if you want bring up that point then go to tectone stream you will get all the attention you want boy

[@ymw1107]

​@@iCHRIS-xfunny enough we are doing exactly just that, but this time it's echo picking instead, kinda ironic huh?

[@Tiasung]

We really dont need to farm like in Genshin because mainstats and set arent bound to stamina like they are there. Meaning we can remove these 2 huge factors from the stamina equation. So no, the overall stamina - reward exchange is way better here. Its a huge difference, and it should be noticable to anyone that already tried/done the Towers. You wouldnt be able to progress Abyss like this mere days into Genshin.

[@redparadox2765]

they wont change it... if they did u would have units sets finished and we are only in week 2. why should u have a characters relics maxed out already? they wont change it. everyone is trying run before they can walk

[@joseangelpaneque5172]

So, Kuro is the GOAT bc listen to its community, give rewards (fake rewards, rewards are when your product is working not broken, it's welcome but I can play day 1 no a 5* that can play. The ECHO is not a problem but THE PROBLEM, It was adressed by all CC during CBT1, and CBT2... but,, oh they didn't listen. And it's IMPOSIBLE TO FIX WHEN IS A CORE PROGRESS MECHANIC meaning rework the entire game.

[@ahatheaeon]

from mint picking to echo picking lmao

[@jeremiahhj]

just relax, seat back and enjoy the game. Too much thinking like this causes nothing but despair instead of enjoying the game.

[@reedsad4652]

He cant enjoy it. Did you know he max refreshes? Now imagine being f2p., You cant even level up your supports here with the abyssmal returns

[@zap7737]

A week in and CCs are spamming echo leveling for perfect substats, no shit they have no mats 😂

[@RanRan_11]

​@@reedsad4652 He's probably played the game for 100+ hours now, you can't really use him as a basis for what the average player feels. We're not even a week into the game, expecting to reach endgame by this point is just stupid.

[@reedsad4652]

@@RanRan_11 but its possible. Now play ww for 100 hours and lets see what you get lmao. Stop defending things that needed to be changed., and accept it theres not much to do in the game than echoepick

[@robertjif6337]

he complain now so they can fix it before we casuals reach that point, can't you see ?

[@KaiserBrasil]

Echoes turned to Echoes xp (even being less xp than the capsules) would definitly scratch that MMO grinding itch that hardcore players have.

[@steffan5156]

Tbf pokke, gating progression with a stamina system as a whole is a gacha problem. The only feasible out is they just give us better rates, since no way they gonna let you feed unleveled echoes to level up.

[@theespecificocean]

They called me crazy for going 4/4/1/1/1....... I've already beaten the zones

[@capszy8584]

In HSR, we need to use stamina to farm relics and then we feed useless relics, but here the echoes are free, and we use stamina to level them, so it is essentially the same thing. In wuwa we can always farm for right main stats without using stamina. But yes maybe they should give more experience per stamina. HSR does have more qol on relics and exp gain and hope wuwa also makes this system better.

[@vuanh857]

This, I've debating with my friends about this. They're basically the same

[@mrp6k490]

​@@vuanh857hsr's relic grind is also very simple though, but I do think that it feels a lot better to farm till you get what you want in one go over farming for weeks on end just for 1 character.

[@mrp6k490]

I just did calcs, for hsr it takes like 360 ish energy assuming you get 17 "Lost Gold Fragments" (the blue relic xp) per run with 2-3 ish gold relics and 5ish purple relics. And honestly I think that's a lil worse for the grinding experience over wuwa? (plus with hsr you have to grind for 6 slots). Other than the fact that wuwa the set bonuses vary ig. Wuwa's whole thing just becomes a lot worse when your storage is filled with all the useless 5* echos you cant do anything with. Must be frustrating

[@vuanh857]

@@mrp6k490 you can always merge 5 pieces of trash to get another piece of trash, just like strongbox :)

[@khanhnguyentrung4060]

@@mrp6k490 it's 360 stamina x 6 slot x at least 8 member for endgame. I don't understand why it is a HUGE problem in WW lol

[@riser7795]

Don't worry guys, pretty sure Devs listened

[@Gheniel_]

Chill bro, its 1 week of game wtf 💀

[@Kittysune12]

@@Gheniel_ very sure dev gonna break the law and listened

[@Gheniel_]

@@Kittysune12 what the heck are u talking about? 😂

[@riser7795]

@@Gheniel_ He's saying Devs will definitely listened no matter what

[@Gheniel_]

@@riser7795 nah this guy is kuro hater, I dont think they mean this. And I think "dont worry guys, pretty sure devs listened" is sarcasm, thats why Im telling them to chill, people expecting the grind to be super easy to be full gear on 1st week

[@royals9719]

I strongly disagree that this is an issue, it shouldnt be possible to get full sets of gold echos at this point in time, if it were possible to get right now you would literally finish buildining your gear before the character and you would run out of things to grind for before you even unlock the highest SOL phase

[@moskvin21415]

Its not mmorpg or bdo bruh

[@LilAngelPrincess95]

Yeah, the game has only been out a week. For only a week orogress doesn't feel bad. I am running low on resources but they will come with time.

[@kurniawandelima]

Doesn't matter if it is now or later. You still need 10 days worth of stamina (assuming the exp rewards is still the same at higher UL) just to level up echoes. Imagine getting new character, then have to wait 10 days to level up their echoes and another many days for level up character and skills.

[@LilAngelPrincess95]

@kurniawandelima you mean like every other gacha? New characters always take days to build. It does suck when it's one you really want to use, tho. Gear is pretty flexible so far, so once you have a set you can share it between characters of the same type. World levels are still low too.

[@RanRan_11]

​@@kurniawandelima Where do you get the math for that? Do you already know how many mats we can get on higher UL?

[@NeFlorence]

I also wish there was a way to convert the Blue/Purple tuners to gold. Like have a conversion rate 5:1 or a 10:1 ratio. That way it's not too abusable but the old tuners also won't collect dust in my inventory.

[@grapeater]

Maybe they could make it so salvaging the levelled echoes for exp gives 100% exp back but no tuners back(or something like 90% exp back). This would mean the limiting resource for substats would be tuners instead of exp and also incentivizes raising lower rarity echoes that you know you will kill later. The exp gain would still be slow at the start but it makes hunting for substats in the endgame much more reasonable.

[@zap7737]

Nah, tuners are more important.

[@nazarkirillov3796]

Hundred percent agree. Kuro needs to optimize the recieving of echo exp expierience either by lowering the waveplates amount for Tacet Field or by giving us generous ways to get echo exp. Also, am I the only one concerned about the amount of credits needed for maximizing only one character?! 20 millions is just too much however you look at it - Even looking at the premium battle pass amount you are given - it is only a fraction of what need for only one character! And we definitely don't have enough waveplates to use it for shell credits. What do you guys think?

[@Derael]

The only thing that can potentially help to solve the issue is let us use echoes as a fodder to reroll substat rolls on the echoes. This will ensure that you won't have to raise countless echoes only for them to turn bad because of 1-2 bad rolls at levels 20-25.

[@isolick1835]

ive 24 starred as completely f2p, the game is very grindy but very easy to hit end game and clear the content we have now 1.0 is always rough

[@midogakka]

I agree. I've been clicking the feedback button this whole week! I know they had beta tests, but I didn't watch anyone stream it. Did no one give feedback on these systems? I will write it here in case Kuro Games sees this comment, or if anyone else feel inspired to make a gacha game 1. Waveplate cost for Simulation Challenge should be 10, Tacet Field Cleanup 20, Forgery Challenge & Boss Challenge 30 and Weekly Challenge can remain at 60 or just simply be free. 2. Remove the Tacet Field Cleanup cut scene! If its absolutely necessary for a scene change, then they should be able to change it with the slow motion effect like after killing bosses. 3. Echos should be able to be used as Echo XP. Data Merge Echos should give +1 Tuner and we should be able to synthesize tuners from blue, purple to yellow. The Data Bank echo collection progress > enhanced drop rate -> remaining chances should be more visible if this is a daily reset thing! Edit* Absorbed Echos should preview icon of set and main stats instead of monster name. 4. Add Echo presets/load outs, main stat and level preview on Echo screen next to equipped Echos (edit*or tooltip window with all stats displayed when hovering cursor over equipped/backpack Echo) and fix the font size/spacing on Echos (Resonance Liberation DMG Bon8.u6s%) 5. Attribute Details (C) should have all active Echo stats displayed on screen (element dmg, resonance skill dmg, resonance liberation dmg, basic attack dmg, heavy attack dmg). There is enough space to add it, we shouldn't have to click ''...'' and scroll through a bunch of non active stats to view it. 6. Rover should be able to have both Spectro and Havoc Echos equipped. For PC/Keyboard users 7. When clicking ESC it should close all menus and bring us to gameplay, the top right X already exists as a back button for those who want to view previous window. When selecting Fast Travel or Track location we should be able to click F or Space to confirm and if we are unable to use ESC as the skip button during story or exit NPC dialogue, they should make that possible and also add more claim all buttons and 1234 button for dialogue options. 8. We should be able to map keybindings freely. 9. Fix camera and mouse issues, give more fps and add borderless widow mode and maybe add 3440x1440 to the list. and 10. The grapple hook should cover a longer distance, there should also be more accessible grapple hook points in the overworld, that way we can run through a farming routes easier with friends instead of fast traveling to locations and getting lost. We should automatically be returned to our own world after all co-op players leaves. When tracking something it should show if target is below ground. Things should be more intuitive and fluent, like the compass button on map to check exploration progress could perhaps have a faint glow animation like the ''New Difficulty Open in Tactical Hologram'' icon. I don't play much, but I think its fair to reward those who want to play actively and have the time to do so. If they want to farm the overworld and their friends world endlessly to achieve perfect Echos, let them! They will use those Echos on future characters and we get to see cool videos and freaky builds and be inspired to do weird off meta shit without feeling like we are wasting time and resources or hurting our account. It would be free advertisement for the game and the community would blossom in abundance and numbers instead of fearing flat stats ruining a whole week of Waveplates and Echo XP+Tuners and quitting the game. For those who think this will be a problem: it's a single player game with no competitive ladder or pvp? New Echo sets and abilities should come in future updates, there will always be things to farm for new characters to keep the gacha machine printing money and those who can afford it will find a way to max waveband and refresh if they are having fun, it's called return on investment. Either way, I think the game is still trying to figure out what it wants to be. I still remember one of the first Genshin Impact events that could be played in a scuffed co-op mode with disconnects and cost 40 resin to claim rewards and it was only mora, wep and char xp, lol, they came a long way since then!

[@TheDeltaPlayers]

nice little Trivia: the whole free + PAID Battlepass gives you 144k EXP, which is ONE +25 Echo & 1000 EXP left in a WHOLE patch (probably 6 weeks)

[@parkerthompson2893]

Oh no! I have to use my stamina for artifact farming!? And I have to play for more than two weeks to clear the hardest end game content!? I quit.

[@ptz12992]

Good point out of the lack of materials for echoes in this early stage. I actually thought about this after I reached UL30 and DB15, but yeah, it's still an early stage of the game. Good thing I'm just chilling and not maxing everything, we will just see when we reach higher UL and what they do for upcoming patches. 🙂

[@EddieBlake215]

Mr. Pokke forgot to say that the issue is getting echoes and echo exp quickly, right now we are barely at the halfway point of progression, most people are at World Phase 3 or 4 out of 8 or 9, and world drops increase with World Phase Level, for example, Overlord boss drops was 1 mat for phase 1 and 2, 2 mats for phase 3 and 4, and it will increase when you get into phase 5 and so on, Tacet fields are the same as Overlord bosses in this regard so at max Union ran/World Phase we will most likely get a lot more rewards, the question here is how much more, and if that will be satisfactory. People complaining about not having lvl25 echoes equipped on all characters is cringe, to say the least, your characters are at level 60 out of 90, your weapons are at level 60 out of 90, and your progression is at barely two-thirds of the total, as long as you upgrade your echoes to lvl10-15 you will do all the content in the game sans tower of adversity bottom tier fights and the purple one where the bosses are level 100... which is good, the game hasn't been out for a full week yet... The way to spend the time in game right now is to farm echoes, do exploration and side quests, challenges (the shooting, running, climbing ones), and get used to the game, that's what people should do, not try hard for the endgame content that is 30 levels away... We will probably need about a month until we end up with the high-tier world phases, maybe two months for the more casual players/non-spenders; and this is good! you don't want to reach a point where you only do the daily farm in WuWa after less than 1 week since release, you need to get to this point after one month or more. The ones that truly suffer from this are content creators, because they can't showcase endgame builds yet and try-hard spreadsheeters who want to know what is the most optimal mathematical set-up. IMO for the casual or semi-casual players the game is exactly where it should be. The only lesson here is to save up solvent (fuel) for when your world is at the max tier so you can get an influx of resources and upgrade your characters, weapons, echoes, etc. Right now you should have a 10-25 set-up on echoes for your main dps'es (25 for the 4-point echoes for Crit Rate, 15 for the 3-point echoes for elemental dmg/energy regen, and 10 or less for the 1-point echoes) as for your sub-dps/supports, you should only upgrade your 3-point echoes with energy regen to lvl10-15 if you need it and that's about it; YOU HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES TO DO THAT AT THIS MOMENT FOR TWO TEAMS (2 main dps, 2 sub-dps and 2 supports with the set-up mentioned above) if you did some exploration and side-quests/activities. With this setup, you should be able to clear Tower of Adversity, except for the purple middle challenge and maybe the last stages on the left and right ones. BUT THAT SHOULD BE ENOUGH because you are barely 2 thirds into the game in terms of progression. Rant Over! Thanks for reading!

[@RanRan_11]

People are forgetting this was pretty much the case for Genshin/HSR. It was basically advised by everyone to not spend stamina on artifact/relic until max level for efficiency. Somehow they seem to not apply it in this game and just want to rant over every little thing.

[@EddieBlake215]

@@RanRan_11 it's because in Genshin/HSR you didn't have gold artifacts/relics until you were at the last and before last world progression tiers, here you get the 5 star echoes too early so people got it into their heads that they should be able to upgrade their "gear" to the max as easy as they do in Genshin/HSR after one year, even if this game is out for barely a week...

[@fuad_ridjan]

Holly wall of text 😂

[@RanRan_11]

Yeah, as always, if you give players the ability to max their characters early, they'll surely do everything they can to do it, even complain about the lack of resources. I just wish people were also like this in Genshin/HSR since even in that game, 5* artifact/relics were also quite early.

[@B3LLE117]

Agree. Another issue. I hope thry will allow us to fine tune the sub states of the echo instead of looking for a new echo just to "reset it" Getting the echo to level 20 25 just to roll another hp on the last 2 sub state is crazy brutal considering theres no way to farm those exp.stuff.

[@joemansur2481]

I agree with this video wholeheartedly. People can say that in GI and HSR its the same way - you shouldn't compare this game to those games. You should expect each subsequent game in a genre to be an IMPROVEMENT on the genre. Its true that this game is already better from a combat perspective and at least from an echo farming perspective - meaning at least we can GET the sets in this game. However, that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. The best thing about games like this is the size of the community that plays it - especially a game that has multiplayer like this one does. So why in the heck are we shouting down people who want the devs to make the new player experience better? The answer is one of two things in my mind, either you don't see anything wrong with the devs not respecting the time you put into the game - which means that you should value your time more and have more self respect - OR its that you have accepted that this is the norm, and have decided you will deal with it because you love the game enough to play it anyways. If that's the case, good on you, but accept the fact that this is not a normal mindset, and you should honestly expect more from a game studio that charges 200$ for the pulls required to hit pity for a single 5*. The main problem isn't even for people who spend money though. The main problem with this issue comes into play with people who are trying to play Free to Play - which most of you probably don't care about - so they have severely limited resources to work with in the first place. You throw in a really obvious wall that is simply a progress gate, and it turns alot of people off. You could argue against that if say...skill played more of a part in breaking through the walls like in an actual action RPG, but that isn't the case with Gacha games. In games like this, they include a timer in all the big fights which makes it a two part check. A skill check and a stats check. This means that they get a longer dev cycle to introduce new content, etc - which is all fine and good, but they can at least make it less frustrating to try and progress while you are sitting waiting for the time to pass that's necessary for you to open the timegate they put in place. It's not unreasonable to expect all parts of a game to "feel good to play" that's the whole point of games in the first place and if they adjust echo EXP, they aren't removing all the time gates that they put in place, and they're still improving the player experience. So it's kind of a win-win all things considered. Anyway, this has gone on long enough. Just wanted to say thanks for making a video that actually calls out issues with a game that we all love to play to try and get them to improve things Pokke. Good on you for doing so =)

[@phoenixlau]

Looking at Genshin, there are two possible ways to address this: a) Limited farmable xp material per day - similar to artifact investigation spots to obtain fodder xp, there are hundreds of spots but you can only farm ~140 spots per day before they stop working. So for Wuthering, that would mean something like having those existing shiny investigate spots drop echo xp, but only up to a certain amount of spots per day. b) Limited conversion per day - similar to blacksmith ore processing, you can farm as much ore as you want, but there is a daily limit to how much you can convert into actual usable weapon xp crystals. So for Wuthering, you can farm echoes as much as you want, but only a certain small amount of them can be diverted into echo xp every day through some sort of vendor.

[@Puppetmaster2005]

Coming out of the high of the honeymoon phase of Wuthering Waves, i have recently hit this wall. And I was wondering why no one was talking about it. Glad to see Pokke has addressed this. Its absurd how they lock the echo experience behind stamina walls. At least give us MORE for each tacit field we claim. I would say at least double.

[@calderaxia]

One of the ideas that I have in mind is to make it so that other echoes can be fed into the other to allow for unlimited leveling, but limiting the materials needed to unlock the substats via the Tacet Fields. Balanced by lessening the exp drops, and boosting the mat mentioned earlier slightly. This would push for more time grinding while we wait for additional quests to reach Sol5

[@ruthz9515]

One way for them to solve this is to have synthesis recipes for turning tuners into their respective exp. That way, they can indirectly buff tecet fields while getting rid of tuner junks. I'm honestly tired of trying to scrap out every bit of echo exp I find in various exchange shops.

[@Skyace13]

Is the exp needed per level flat? Do you really need level 25 right away? Especially at earlier SOL levels? Definitely important info to share as to just how limited it is Also 13/15 levels isn’t bad for transferring echo xp. Not sure how cleanly that scales up though.

[@Brandon-gh3pg]

In my opinion, the "3 costs problem" you mentioned: getting right mainstat on right set, is a balanced system. Unlike other games (hsr, genshin) that limit your relics to your stamina, wuwa allows you to farm overworld for those relics. And even if you spend stamina in hsr, you get totally useless mainstats on the wrong set anyway; wuwa made a very generous change to that system. Alongside, there is actually a pity system for overworld farming (kzbin.info/www/bejne/mn-kgpd5obiZi6M) to guarantee drop rates for the elites. And what's more, you can purchase "modeling resins" for elemental dmg boost from Depths of elusive. Though I hope wuwa adds the moonlit set and healing set to that soon. If you've played other gacha games, you should know how generous wuwa was with this system. But yes, apart from that I really hope gold echos are worth some exp rather than just fodder for the reroll system.

[@morbus__]

In my opinion rising the base drop of echo to 40% at least or 50% would make farming them way more nicer especially since it is not being increased at all when you level up at least a chance for 5* % increases which increases your data bank lvl but not even getting an echo and a chance is really painful

[@morbus__]

so in short in wuwa even tho farming echos is for free you have 3 LAYERS OF RNG, first if you are even gonna get an echo (20% of base drop), second if you are even gonna get the 5 star echo (30% for 5 star and 70% for 4 star at level 15 data bank) and third what substats is it gonna have (good or bad ones) on top of that you need higher rarity echos to increase your data bank level so if you are not gonna drop a 5 star echo you will not get exp to level up. at level 15 literally all of my monsters in game have a 4 star rarity and to progress i need to farm all of these monsters to 5 star rarity in game again to level up my data bank (and I need to fight with 2 LAYERS OF RNG 20% of base drop and 30% of getting 5 star echo)

[@AoABlodhgarm]

I love putting MrPokke on .75 speed just to fully catch everything he says.

[@EddyTorrent]

Lmfao holy crap it actually helps. Why didn't I think of that.

[@centhegibbon8220]

it cures the 'tism

[@heinpete2156]

I'm out here 1.25x-ing

[@howlroo]

​@@heinpete2156yeah I miss the old yapping pokey

[@centhegibbon8220]

@@heinpete2156 ifindthatreallyinterestingdoyonotfindthatitspracticallyimpossibletodiscernwhatoneathhesactuallysayingwhenthereisliterallynogapinbetweensyallabelstothepointtheymayaswellbeonebigmassoftext?

[@emanoelneto3341]

what if the echos we equiped could by leveled up by killing same types echos and it worked for every teamate.

[@hanerime]

the game has so much potential man i hope they actually improve and fix these type of things instead of just blinding us with compensation rewards

[@MavreckBap]

I agree. There is no issue in acquiring Echo XP but how much they're giving us per 60 stamina used, and how much is needed to upgrade an Echo. It's expensive just to + 10 plus an echo imagine the cost of +25 echoes.

[@SundayMatinee]

Echo system was the biggest concern in CBT. And they still haven't fixed it. Well, once they get people able to play the game, they need to fix this.

[@ATeamNinja124]

Working within our constraints, I think that it might be an angle to get 2p element 2p atk early in the endgame to reduce the amount of echoes you have to level for each main DPS. We know that you can swap weapons and echoes between each floor of Tower of Adversity, so you just swap the 2p atk between units. Should cut down a large part of exp to get to an acceptable power level.

[@XendiasSoria]

Something I've realized from this, before I jokingly thought that I should only raise 2 DPS units of differing Elements to at least beat ToA and maybe other high difficulty stuff (mainly to avoid Prisms and Elemental Res from bosses) and then have 2 different Support units (ideally Baizhi and Verina) with just carrying a 5-set bonus from the Support sets (Rejuvenating Glow/Moonlit Clouds). Now it suddenly feels like it stopped being a joke.

[@Heartlessi]

This is a problem we will all face but do not worry kuro will listen to us if we talk to them. I encourage everyone to suggest in the upcoming future surveys to ask for changes to the echo EXP rewards within the game. It will take time but communication is important.

[@rainnyan9506]

I feel like the Echo EXP is a HUGE issue in this game right now, as You addressed in this video. i feel really they should give at the given moment more opputurnities to get more Echo exp or reduce the Tacet field Waveplate cost by 20 to 40. And make the exp drop like 50% more then what is available now, it would be not an instant fix but a right direction at the very least. Tuners - All old tuners should be convertable to cold ones. even if its 10:1 / 5:1 / ratio at this point. But having some ways to get extra Tuners would be extremely helpful, then even the purple tuners and blue ones from some shops will have its use LOL. We will run into the issue to farm later Tacet Fields for the Premium Tuners alone ONTOP of having the EXP problem is really HUGE. Echo Gearing - I feel like trying to max some pieces is in early endgame kinda hard, i Resorted to distribute these more evenly in my Team of Main dps sub dps. So i can Manage to build more. It's not Optimal but it actually works great. 4C - Lvl 20/25 | 3C - Lvl 20 | 1C - Lvl 10/15 Like that it somewhat gives me a bit of leeway. Like the biggest hurdle for exp is really from Lvl 20 - 25. Thanks for that vid. I'll defo write a Feedback in the ingame option even when it lands on deaf ears.

[@kazwushu2495]

just leaving it here. it is not efficient to max level echoes in one go, coz we have to tune the echo as well. so imo its more efficient to level echo 5 levels at a time to monitor the tuning. PS. this not the best way to play the game, this just to save exp mats for echoes.

[@Gallius_HSR_WuWa]

Possible solutions : 1. Bring a coverter rare item where we can tune our echo to the right main stat. 2. Data merge function should be like if we are merging 1 cost we get 1 cost and 3 cost produce 3 cost only and same for 4 cost. 3. Blue and purple tuners should be able to be converted to gold. 4. EXTRA : improve tacet feild drops

[@naoki95957]

Like some other comments, panicking about echo exp currently is like evaluating character exp requirements from level 1-90 etc. We'll probably get more exp at higher union level and I wouldn't worry about it much until we see what those numbers are. If its still bad then, yeah it's a problem. Imagine if traces, character + weapons levels weren't held back by union (like the echos); I'm sure people would be saying theres not enough char exp and/or not enough weapon exp too. For now, I assume we are meant to have echos at lvl 10 or so, not 25.

[@ryansaniel3913]

Devs need to hear about this because the refresh rate of Waveplates are slow and the tacet field cost are so high with low drops

[@GeorgeHossain]

This is actually not bad that a echo needs 2 days of stamina to max level since its a 1 time thing .Its a gatcha game they can't just allow players infinite progressing , not even p2w players .

[@chibixleon]

Wuthering waves gave us unlimited relics and people are complaining we don’t have enough exp…. I still prefer this over limiting relics to wave plates.

[@RanRan_11]

Exactly. I could just farm for the right piece/set/main stat I want without using stamina and then dump all of my stamina on the exp materials. Seems way better than spending stamina in hopes of getting exactly what I want.

[@HeshO-yi3hh]

I remember the video you did with Sweetily where the final conclusion was that the game at endgame was way too grindy, apparently its still an issue, I hope devs fix it

[@stenborm3680]

Needs only 2 fixes and it is fine. Make it 40 instead of 60 Stamina cost. Make the 4* Tuner be able to turn into the 5* ones. We are not supposed to have maxed out relics in the first week of playing. It is the main goal to keep on playing and having an incentive over the next months.

[@PenguinThunder-tg8lb]

It also takes 2 days worth of resin (at AR 45) to max level one 5* artifact in Genshin, the numbers are available on the wiki.

[@darvader00]

They should allow dupes of the same echo to be used as echo exp. For example, a 5 star echo could be equivalent to one blue or purple echo exp tube.

[@ljunljun6354]

I think it will be nice if we can get the full set echo effect with only 4 echos and the 1 other echo is random like how the one in genshin impact, this way we can experiment more on echo combination and the random stats echo we get could be used on other chars. We can use 44111 or 43311 more freely too this way

[@acee.5517]

I think they should have a system where we can use echo to convert into echo exp and have daily limit, that way the echo system is not abused nor restrictive.

[@Erik-kun]

union 36 rn and the echo exp grind is artocious, 60 cost for tacit field is insane. hopefully they'll allow us to use echoes as exp even if its miniscule.

[@zap7737]

Maybe you should go outside lol

[@TheSbb]

I don't think it's an issue with the system in the game. From my point of view we are supposed to be sitting on purple gear with maybe a yellow piece or two, the max UL is 80 if i'm not mistaken, we can't expect to be given endgame resources at UL 30. It's kind of crazy that we can already farm yellow gear at UL 30 considering there isn't a tier higher than this right? Unless they add higher rarity later, which i think would be good for the game. All in all it's not an issue or bottleneck to not have enough resources in week 1. No one complain when you don't have enough resources to build more than 1 char or team early on.

[@KouSoan]

It'd be a great change if we could use Echos as fodder BUT until certain level. Like 15 or 20 for yellow ones, for example.

[@HeshO-yi3hh]

Imagine hating this video and immediately get an L from the developers themselves

[@daryontube]

Well… the video is missing one of the main ways to get eco exp. EVENTS. So, depending on the event rewards it can be mitigated. But yes, there’s a big scarcity right now for all materials. It happens in all gachas.

[@rdr.erased]

Will never understand worrying with resources that much on a pve game

[@909090438]

I said before release that the endless farming system in the open world would ultimately kill the game. This has killed absolutely all games where you can farm something without stopping, interest in the game will simply disappear, farming is boring. It's boring even in Genshin, where you farm a dungeon for 10 seconds. Didn't the developers actually play their game themselves?

[@OldManInternet]

On the one hand, I can see people complaining about how much stamina you need to burn to get xp. On the other hand, I feel like the same thing happens in HSR. Unless I get a new character and need traces or ascension materials, 100% of stamina is just dumped into relic domains every day, and I get about 1-2 potentially usable relic a week. I feel like the 3 cost set/stat issue is pretty much the same as trying to get speed and crit subs on relics. The difference in WuWa is that you can farm the world every day to see if the main stat on 3 costs hit, vs HSR where you pick mint in SimUni to build up leveling materials for free. I wouldn't be opposed to more XP, but the only reason I play HSR daily is to keep farming for relics. If they made it a lot easier to have perfect relics in HSR, people would get bored. If people can quickly get their echos maxed, they'd run out of stuff to do in the game within a month. At the end of the day, I just view Tacet Fields as WuWa's version of the HSR relic domain. It's designed to be the stamina dump, and it just feels bad because HSR conditioned players to avoid the Calyx. Edit: You specifically can and should use 3 and 4 star echos in WuWa because the tuner is an entirely different resource. Then once you finally get 5 star relics you can use, you'd invest the XP over. I think part of the reason new players in WuWa feel like the system is bad is because they're holding out for 5 stars. But in the first month of HSR, people were still using purples. If the tuners were shared, it would be a terrible idea. But they're not, so it's fine.

[@zerovking7629]

It 100% was an issue in HSR aswell its just a worldwide issue for all gacha games which tbh isn't fixable or an issue at all we have to wait until max rank/sol3 phase level to gauge the rewards Its a week into the games lifespan the resources are going to be scarce guarantee like 6 months into the games lifespan this "issue" will not be one

[@arvandor6820]

It IS obnoxious, but I understand why they did it this way. Instead of farming domains for the mainstats, we farm them for their levels. I think I actually prefer this system (but that's partly because I like to go on massacre runs anyways). Also, once you get your echoes fully leveled (which will take a while sure, but that's no different from HSR, where I can farm for an entire patch and NEVER see an upgrade), and you're just trying to get upgrades, you can feed your old stuff into the better stuff and the energy cost won't seem nearly as bad. Edit2: Oh yeah, one other thing. The universal sets like the healer and ER sets you only need ONE set of each for all three of your teams. Main dps sets will be a little harder, but I don't think it'll be as bad as you think.

[@KahlevN]

Honestly in the end Tuners will be an even bigger logjam for most players. You can level up your echos, but to get the right substats you have to level them THEN use tuners to see their substats, and you'll run out of those way before you get an optimal set. So that two weeks to level up a single set for a unit is expanded exponentially because you need to do that endless times until you get the substats you want as well.

[@RanRan_11]

Right now at the current UL that people are, you can tune 1 gold echo in 1 Tacet Field run. That's enough to determine whether it's worth it to continue or not. People complain about early game not giving them enough resource/material but as soon as end game hits, everyone will be swimming in those, especially because there's less RNG (that costs stamina) for the main stat. The only things you'll be farming are tuners and exp, which will pretty much be the same cost for every echo.

[@JohnStamR]

Have to agree a lot of the comments that this is not really an issue right now. Yes it is an issue if the rates are not great at max level, but this is only an issue because we can infinitely farm echos so it feels worse. If this was Genshin/HSR rn, we just would not have any artifacts/relics to level. If you can get to true end game levels and gear within a week of the game launching, the game will not have anything to do in a month. Excluding info we just do not know yet, the only real valid point I think are the tuners, since yes 3* and 4* are completely useless.

[@crimsonking6246]

Brother it's been a week

[@ganyumaindayone1112]

dunno about UL 80 tacet fields rewards or temp event, but crying because you cant clear all content within a week, it took me 4 months to even try abyss floor 12 in genshin at release

[@ganyumaindayone1112]

though i do agree that we'll need more echo xp in the future and if at UL 80 we dont get atleast double if not more from tacet field, it'll suck, but i'd atleast wait and see how UL 40 goes since we can then extrapolate what UL 80 will give

[@reedsad4652]

This is not clearly the poin. 🤷, In genshin(since you mentioned it) World boss? Theres relic fodder, ascension boss? With relic fodder, overworld explorstion it has relic fodders. Mobs drop it too, here in wuwa? Only tacet field. TLDR they give you free relics but need to spend stamina for substats and exp lmao. Atleast in genshin 1 run cost 20 with fodders 🤷. In tacet field? 60 with abysmal tuning and relic xp and you cant get anymore other than tacet

[@ganyumaindayone1112]

@@reedsad4652 well in genshin you do bosses like once every 6 weeks usually for a new char and for a few days then back to artifact farming, getting maybe one decent every month obv with so little artifact worth leveling you'll have xp to spare Still i do agree that the xp required to 25 is probably too high if they dont distribute echo xp like candy in temp event later on, because even the paid BP fully maxed doesnt give enough xp to max25 one echo

[@RanRan_11]

​@@reedsad4652 In WW, you can farm the main stat of your equipment. In Genshin/HSR? you spend stamina in hopes of getting the one that you want. I've had more CR/CD main stat echo in WW by just farming for a few hours than I've had in Genshin/HSR while farming for months.

[@reedsad4652]

@@ganyumaindayone1112 its a personal problem then, I myself still fsrm world bosses since its efficient with 50% discount 3 runs. Not mentioning, weapon xp there is free. Ascension stats comes with ascending a character not unlock it via nodes. Tacet field should be atleast 30 to 40 stamina only, 60 is absurd. You can atleast combine fodder echoe = 1 purple or 5 blues smething like that. Not to mention I am very surprised to see that mr pokke is stil at UL 34 with max refreshes. Damn, I guess there are not a lot of UL exp huh. They really stalled us 😆

[@mrp6k490]

I just did calcs, for hsr it takes like 360 ish energy assuming you get 17 "Lost Gold Fragments" (the blue relic xp) per run with 2-3 ish gold relics and 5ish purple relics. And honestly I think that's a lil worse for the grinding experience over wuwa? Other than the fact that wuwa the set bonuses vary ig. Wuwa's whole thing just becomes a lot worse when your storage is filled with all the useless 5* echos you cant do anything with. Must be frustrating

[@tidus9942]

you can recycle them for new echos.

[@Eros-Esoteric]

Its crazy how all of us endgame players all came to the same conclusion at the same time and all made videos on it.🤣 I don't know how the echo system made it to the final product of the game. Hopefully they "tune" it to be a bit more forgiving in the future.

[@SlimjayVA]

It was said in the video that echos arent even needed for end game so whats the problem with it taking 2 days of energy to get enough exp to max out an echo? To me it just sounds like players are incredibly impatient btw it takes 2 days of relic farming in star rail to get enough fragments to craft ONE relic

[@sep4707]

mr pokke is rushing endgame echoes lol

[@vietanh2101]

you can feed leveled relics in hsr, and the rate of salvage relics for exp is much better. The problem in Wuwa is 2 days to max 1 echo, but you need to max to know the sub stats as well. So 2 days to max an echo and it's every likely to be shit. Not very fun I would say.

[@sep4707]

@@vietanh2101 we're only UL 30, thats halfway, we dont even know the exp per stamina on endgame yet

[@RanRan_11]

​@@vietanh2101 That's why you don't max an echo before tuning. Just get it to level 5 and tune it, if you get whatever stats you want then upgrade it to 10. Ideally you'd want both the crit stats with some attack but that's for min-maxing so you could just settle with getting either a CR or CD.

[@hitomi-chanisshywithstrang56]

​@@RanRan_11still losing a fuck ton of echo exp/tuner cuz of taxes. But yeah... Just pray CR/Cdmg God smile ur way uwu

[@Tsukuruya]

Still prefer this system over Genshin’s artifact system. Finding the main stats for echo feels a lot more forgiven with the fact there’s a lot more to farm for them. After a good stockpile, you can just +5 an Echo and see the first substats, then chuck it to your next Echo if you didn’t hit what you want early.