Misconceptions about Modern Prophecy

[@robert3213]

I honestly love you guys! I love your commitment to fairly assessing everything, seeking truth, and encouraging believers to leave their echo chambers and consider conflicting views. Naturally people will be offended all over the place, but God's truth will often surprise us if we're open to being teachable. Keep up the good work!

[@samcooperyoutube]

I feel so flipping equipped with these Modern Prophecy Misconception episodes! These are incredibly helpful for me as a lot of these things were on my mind. I had a lot of questions that you guys answered!

[@annhinz6326]

Great to see Miller again, I'm a child of the 70s and you are rocking that stashe! Josh, I love feeding your kids!

[@TheRemnantRadio]

So do my KIDS LOL. THanks, Ann

[@stewietinktink8441]

So when these prophecies do not come true and there is no repentance what then with these “prophets”?

[@whittakerdanielj]

You ignore them.

[@theologymatters5127]

Oh man. How am I gonna convince my husband to let me watch 6 hours of remnant radio for new years eve??? I want to watch it so bad!

[@racheljoyenns]

Haha! My thoughts exactly. 😂😂

[@vernturnquist6729]

Yer kidding, right? Offer him the sexy times

[@reneeroberts4953]

I have the same problem!!! Lol

[@PhazonOmega]

If you give even $5 to their Patreon, you will be planting a seed that will grow, and flourish, and produce fruit... that can then be fed to Josh's children.

[@cruebaldwin2394]

😂

[@ryandawson2877]

Also, Paul exercised authority over the churches that he planted even after he left if needed. It was a spontaneous fatherly authority and not a wrongfully dictatorial one.

[@ryandawson2877]

So when Josh says that there are no spiritual qualifications for a profit but simply hearing God… That’s what I understood him to say… I would say that the same qualification goes for all five ministry gifts of apostle, profit, evangelist, pastor and teacher. One Timothy three and Titus one definitely would apply. Profits most of the time or preachers and teachers of the word along with all of the rest of the ministries. If profits are teaching people to hear the voice of God, they would have to be preaching/teaching the word and therefore qualify for elder ship.

[@lorriecusick-lu4fi]

... I am a woman whom God has sent to be a prophetess and would not qualify Biblically to be a church leader over men, pastor etc. So I suppose qualifications for prophetess would be to believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and to be called to that position ...

[@theologymatters5127]

So how do we deal with conditional prophesies now. I see a lot of people "prophesying" and then when it doesn't come to pass, they back peddle. It seems like there's no hard line in how to seperate the false prophets from the legit ones.

[@ryandawson2877]

I think many people over emphasize the conditionality a prophetic words. I do believe there is truth in it though. You have Jonah for example that said in 40 days none of them would be overthrown and none of the repented and judgment was delayed. It did not happen in 40 days because none of them are repented. So the word was based on certain conditions and circumstances at the moment. Do you have a profit telling a king to get his house in order because he is going to die. He turned his face to the wall and the profit returns saying you have 15 more years. You also have one Timothy four and two Timothy one where Paul is telling Timothy to war a good warfare with the prophecies spoken over him with the laying on of hands at AutoNation. My rule of thumb is if I have something that I believe is from the Lord and I am meeting the conditionsWhich would be walking according to the word of God, continuing and sanctification and holiness and staying basically on the pathway that I am supposed to, I can stand in faith for the fulfillment of that word. If I know the particular individual that spoke it over me, that helps. The scripture tells us to know those who labor among us. If it is some Johnny come lately I may let it roll off of me like water off of a ducks back. Also if it confirms something that I already have in my own spirit that helps as well. But if the conditions are fulfilled, and it does not come to pass at all, then they missed it.

[@WondurLand64s]

If a someone claims a prophetic vision and it doesn't come to pass then that person is a false prophet. This is what the bible says

[@ryandawson2877]

In the New Testament we are to judge these things according to one Thessalonians five. I don’t believe everyone that misses it is a false prophet for this reason.@@WondurLand64s you have to take all of Scripture and what it says about prophecy. If the conditions are met and it still does not come to pass, then yes it is false prophecy.

[@WiseWomanLola]

You guys are maturity personified 🥸

[@barryscroggins8450]

Funny, I was thinking the opposite. They have a discussion, but in parts it is a pooling of ignorance, it isn't teaching. I find that PhD and MDiv dissertations provide the best discussion on this topic as the literature review required to frame things properly are beyond the grasp of a radio conversation.

[@andreso9595]

That New Years line up! Wow

[@dylanmilks]

Great conversation!

[@ryandawson2877]

So this is great material. I would not agree that there is no office of profit. We know from Ephesians 4 and one Corinthians 12 that God has set them in the church. Also in acts 21 the scripture speaks about Philip who had four daughters who “prophesied “and then there was a certain “prophet “named Agabus who spoke to Paul by the spirit. So the scripture in the New Testament clearly differentiates between the two. There are those who manifest the charismatic gift of prophecy while others function in the ministry of the prophet. Among other things, they are called to equip the saints so that the Saints can do the work of the ministry just like apostles, evangelists, pastors and teachers. I love the discussion though.

[@racheljoyenns]

If prophets are expected to be infallible, why does NT encourage two or three prophets to judge prophetic words?? They are to judge whether the word is accurate and how it should be applied.

[@Kili098]

I think the idea was to ensure no false prophets entered the church and thereby false teaching. I don’t believe in modern day Prophets, I don’t know where I stands on the likes of “word of knowledge” etc. But I would firmly stand on, if the word was false or failed to happen, the individual did not hear from God. The NT does also say in times past God spoke through the prophets but in these last days has spoken to us through His Son. Would seem to suggest to me the office of a Prophet has ceased.

[@racheljoyenns]

@@Kili098 When I say prophets, I mean “those who prophesy”. I certainly wouldn’t hold their words above the authority of Scripture and would test everything they said against Scripture. I appreciated @RemnantRadio comments in this video on that topic.

[@whittakerdanielj]

It's called accountability and it is severely lacking in today's "prophetic" movements.

[@racheljoyenns]

@@whittakerdanielj I agree there needs to be far more accountability in prophetic movements. I also don’t think it should be abolished.

[@racheljoyenns]

Haha! Remnant Radio venturing where angels fear to tread. 😂

[@sherubawon1]

🔥 🔥 🔥 Another great episode...

[@caroleimani9754]

It took me 53 years to learn SOME OF what you guys seem to know already, and I had to sift through a lot of "weird stuff." Hopefully I have learned something from experience.......

[@racheljoyenns]

Ezekiel 13 feels like such an accurate picture of this year in particular when it comes to discernment of true/false prophesies.

[@caroleimani9754]

I have to go look up Ezekiel 13 now.

[@stephenwalsh9265]

Nathan did not claim to be prophesying. Every word a prophet speaks is not a prophecy. He did not say "thus says the Lord" when he said go build the Temple.

[@Henriette-van-der-Ende]

Oh why wasn't this channel aired like 20 years ago when it was so needed....?!

[@michaelmiller5024]

Because we were still teens

[@Henriette-van-der-Ende]

@@michaelmiller5024 😅😁

[@jakehumphrey1213]

Today is the day “half-cheeking it in the Kingdom” entered my lexicon 🤣

[@stephenwalsh9265]

Deu 18:20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ 2 thoughts here. One who presumes to speak in God's name, and one who speaks in the name of other gods. Both are equally serious and have the same penalty.

[@caroleimani9754]

I never heard of a conditional prophesy before. When I was growing up spiritually prophesy was either black or white. You either accepted the prophesy (or else you were going against God and maybe blaspheming the Holy Spirit).

[@caroleimani9754]

I decided that I would just come out and say general stuff to somebody. In other words, instead of saying, "Thus saith the Lord...blah, blah, blah..." I would just say, "Hey, I think the Lord really wants to encourage you at your job." Just come out and say it rather than saying, "Thus saith the Lord" all the time!!!

[@VeryBasicBible]

Since the Todd White and these recent prophecy videos, the questions and comments in the live chat have generally gone from 3rd grade playground bully level, to High School level or beyond. It shows that y'all are having a great effect, even if to just a relatively few youtube theology nerds. Keep up running the race!

[@joannacarlson9481]

So, I'm not really sure in the Bible the places where Jeremiah got a prophecy wrong. As far as Nathan with David, I think that when Nathan said that the Lord is with him, and that he should go forward and do what he wills, that was Nathan speaking for Nathan, not for God. And, I don't believe it was necessarily wrong, it was simply an encouragement for David that the Lord was with him. Then, God spoke to Nathan to clarify and give a more specific word and direction.

[@michaelmiller5024]

I’ve heard a similar argument regarding Nathan but it’s seems hard to prove. The reason a king would consult the prophet is to get the Word of the Lord. I’d love to be wrong though. It would help me feel like everything is much cleaner.

[@racheljoyenns]

some say the Joel 2 prophesy “sons and daughters, old men/young men” refers to spiritual maturity rather than literal ages.

[@TheRemnantRadio]

can you site a scholar who has said that, Not that I doubt you. I have just never heard that ever taught.

[@racheljoyenns]

@@TheRemnantRadio I think it was John Paul Jackson. His reasoning was that people of all ages dream and people of all ages see visions. He taught that visions are often more literal and easier to understand and thus easier for a “young”/immature believer to grasp. (Visions can occur waking or sleeping). While dreams on the other hand are more metaphorical in nature and need interpretation via revelation and skill (Like Daniel).

[@racheljoyenns]

I don’t know if you would consider John Paul Jackson a scholar.

[@racheljoyenns]

@@TheRemnantRadio all that being said, I wouldn’t die on that hill. Peter’s vision of the lowered sheet and unclean animals was it literal or metaphorical? 🤷‍♀️ Some might say it was both. And a Peter certainly needed the LORD to interpret the vision for him.

[@TheRemnantRadio]

@@racheljoyenns well I’d ask JPJ where he got that from if I heard him say it. JPJ had good stuff but was by no means a historian, lexicographer, or classical theologian. Not throwing rocks here. I’m none of those things either. But if you completely reinterpret the plain meaning of a text, I think you better have good reason to believe that. Give me some language key that I’m missing, a historical nugget some have overlooked etc. if JPJ just stated this with no significant citation, I would personally pass on that interpretation.

[@alexmarysaint2523]

Regarding the prophet Nathan your case is built on the false assumption that everything a prophet utter should be considered on the same level. When Nathan told to David that The Lord was with him he did not consult God, not did he claim to speak in the name of The Lord (no "thus says The Lord"). He just gave his own opinion. Then during the night The Lord intervened to tell him that He actually disagreed. Not everything a prophet says necessarily comes from God. They are humans not robots, they have their own opinions and they can choose what that they want to say this or that when having a conversation. A great example of that is the old prophet in 1 Kings 13. He was a real prophet but chose to lie pretending that God said something He never said and pushed someone to disobey God. But then God talked to the old prophet and gave him a prophecy that came to pass immediately. So you can be an actual prophet and lie about what prophecies you received. That does not make prophecies "not infallible" that just mean that if/when someone chose to speak of their own accord then it doesn't old the same authority as prophecy just because the person speaking is a prophet. This is probably why prophecies had to be confirmed by two or three other people in the early church. This way if someone is not speaking from God, God would say so to tue witnesses, and if the person is speaking from God they would receive confirmation through multiple witness and believe.

[@enocheubank4424]

"Dropping solids" ha!

[@stephenwalsh9265]

Wait what are you saying Jeremiah made a false prophecy?

[@traceyburroughs1111]

Tracey Burroughs from S.A. watching your episode.

[@ryandawson2877]

I think he was simply trying to avoid having people control the elders through prophecy which I totally agree with.

[@nathanpriddis3878]

Neither Nathan or Jerimiah errored. The line of the Christ, and the future Body of Christ requires Nathan to have total reliablity. In a similar manner Jeremiah's prophecy concerns who has a right to sit on the throne of David and related events. I was very suprised to hear someone say Jerimiah errored. Our faith would be in vain if either did. There are simple reading mistakes and some misidentification of a couple kings, but it involves arcane passages never read. When I heard this part of the podcast, I assumed it must be a mixup surrounding the cursing of the line of Solomon. This effects the virgin birth, so it's a core issue of the Faith. As for Elisha, again no error. It's an issue of reading exactly what was said, and what happened as a result. It was fulfilled.

[@VeryBasicBible]

For reference, research- Here's an earlier video where Michael Miller explains, a little more clearly I think, his view on the whole Jeremiah thing. It's only like a minute, about 47:20-48:20, so it should be quick to get his refernces. You can check and see what he's saying there. Cool. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZLVhaZ6ndWne6s

[@nathanpriddis3878]

@@VeryBasicBible Hey thanks! I checked out the episode on Cessationism vs. Continuationism. Michael Miller's position was a bit vague, in that he made general statements, as opposed to detailed points. Some thoughts in no particular order- -Michael Miller's position would reinforce any Cessationist in their ideology. -It was immediately apparrent that Miller does not have a familiarity with the text, and possibly has never studied it. (Example Jerimiah 22) This chapter contains a prophecy that Josiah would be, gathered to the grave in peace. However, Michael does not appear to know additional detail, and a second phophecy of warning, is outlined in Kings and Chronicles. Josiah is killed by Necho after being warned by God and failing to obey. -Michael's position undermines the Word of God in details such as the lineage of Christ and Virgin Birth. -It could be argued it constitutes blasphemy for contradict pronouncements of God.

[@stephenwalsh9265]

I am a continuationist and always have been but I have a real problem with the modern idea of "fallible prophecy." To me that is an oxymoron.

[@akumauchiha3130]

As a scholar do we disvalue revelation knowledge or what we might call private revelation which is prophetic utterance which is what is application to the now from the past. Note affirm a Eastern reading of scripture rather then a western philosophy.

[@joannacarlson9481]

The modern day prophets are speaking into people's lives specifically, or they are giving a supposed word from the Lord about the future of the people or the nation. Unless all they say comes to pass, I do not consider them mouthpieces for God. A prophet is supposedly speaking directly from God. It seems that the way you all are using "prophets" in your respective churches is that the purpose of the prophecies is to give people words of Knowledge for the encouragement and exhortation of the body, or for individuals. I did not see your previous episodes regarding prophecy, so I am not sure if you defined the terms. What do you say is the difference between words of knowledge and prophecy? Besides, aren't both of those gifts supposed to point to Christ? Aren't we so selfish to think that everything is about us? And, if people are giving words that we are not sure if they came directly from God, doesn't that border on divination or fortune telling? Please advise. Thanks!

[@stephenwalsh9265]

What do you mean by "modern revelation?"

[@stephenwalsh9265]

Paul had equal authority to the twelve.

[@ryandawson2877]

OK I see what you’re differentiating between now. People can teach, but then there are teachers. That’s good.

[@Benjamin-rp4hq]

It seems well agreed that the apostle Paul had written more letters then what were included in the bible. So not everything an apostle taught was scripture level inspired or infallible. So it seems prophets would be the same.

[@brianakortbein5082]

Yo I’ve wondered if like Jonah, if we won’t all be sitting back waiting for Israel to be destroyed when in reality they saw the judgment coming and repent… and all us Christians are like “No Jesus couldn’t be the king over there- Israel hasn’t been obliterated yet! All prophecy must come to pass!”

[@lightlover33]

Its an embarrassment when yahoos who dont believe in prophecy try to instruct the church on prophecy.

[@ChadB74]

I believe in the gifts of the Spirit, except that I'm not sure that prophecy is still in existence today. Isn't it possible that some gifts still exist while others may not? It doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" situation. Maybe it's because I haven't seen any modern prophecies come true. The prophecies I've heard in person have been by traveling evangelists and were very general. My question is, what accountability is there if a prophecy is made and doesn't come true.

[@Liminalplace1]

There are many exactly fulfilled predictive prophecies today.

[@walkingintheglory2892]

read corinthians you’ll see when the perfect comes the gifts will end

[@michaelmiller5024]

Chad, I’m open to the idea that prophesy didn’t continue but I find it incredibly difficult to prove scripturally as well as experientially. Prophesy in particular seems to be the major eschatological expectation of the New Covenant and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. It seems suspect to say it would only be for the first century. Regarding inaccuracy and accountability I actually think it is a huge problem today. It is part of the reason why are doing the podcast. There’s a lot of really bad practices out there today which gives a lot of credibility to your skepticism.

[@TeamJesusOutdoors]

You need to bring up the mic of the non-Michael guy.

[@mariakarayan9997]

Brothers, the office of prophet is identified by what he says. If it comes true it is one he has sent if the word of the prophet does not come true it is satan sent. Satan is father of lies. 1 peter 2:21 says prophesy is of Gods will not mans. Prophets of day tickle ears. A prophet is sent to warn before destruction at the end days which are the trubulation years soon to begin. All the prophets in the past were false as false Christs have arisen to falsely prophesy within religions and cults born in the 1800s. Joel 2:28,29 reveals men and women will prophesy in the tribulation years etc. Watch this space

[@joshuagreen3019]

I am a big fan of Tom Schreiner, but his claim that the gifts have ceased seems unfaithful to the historical-grammatical method of exegesis. In addition, I think that the SBC has also began to accept missionary candidates who speak in tongues.

[@racheljoyenns]

Charismatic Episcopalian = Liturgy + Functioning Gifts of Holy Spirit

[@marknathan6699]

Most charismatic try to teach how to speak in tongues. Following scripts. Jack hayford a leading conjurer my goodness , while speaking with Bethel students could not find Matthew and had no favorite verse. They said the Bible is cool , yah know.

[@barryscroggins8450]

Re 57mins and office of prophet as distinct from a prophetic word...2Pet2:1 lends weight to the assertion that the office of the prophet ceased, I would say with Jesus, as alluded to in Hebrews 1:1-2. As for office of the Apostle, even Grudem accepts that the NT Apostles were unique and were succeeded by the New Testament canon. Those that call themselves apostles today are church planters at best, and at worst wolves who preach that Acts 2 does not list the apostle's teaching to which the church devoted themselves to because Luke understood that modern apostles would continue to add to the apostolic teachings...I heard that novel interpretation in Redding, CA. People who insist on being personally referred to as an apostle or prophet themselves - I've yet to meet one who isn't unhinged in their 'faith'. Can't get over that you advocated for Chuck Pierce either...