My Beef with Borthwick | The Rugby Pod Debate England's RWC Chances

Goodey lets loose on England's approach to this RWC campaign as the lads debate squad selections, shock omissions and style of play.
0:00 My Beef with Borthwick
01:57 What They Should Learn From Cricket
8:32 Jim's Take

[@nickbond618]

I can't quite believe I'm saying this, but Andy Goode is spot on here.

[@oliversmiddy840]

Borthwick was an atrocious England captain, and he's an absolute charisma vortex. It pains me to say it, but I agree with Andy here. I really struggle to get behind an England team that is basically Leicester 2.0. He'll pack the squad with Leicester players, he's basically transplanted the entire Leicester coaching team into the England set-up (despite them having bugger all international experience), and we'll end up playing a dire, set-piece-and-kick-chase gameplan which will get found out the minute we play someone good.

[@DH1985-MB]

fuck me I hope your wrong!

[@cceffect]

Just look at Saracens this year. Absolutely changed the way they play and destroyed tigers and sale

[@joemartin4751]

Sadly I think you’re right.

[@TheOne-uo7is]

I think you’re right mate sadly - we could actually have a very dynamic team if he blended the likes of Mercer, Smith, Arundell with some power players like Tuilagi, Billy V and Joe C but we’ll go back to the boring Leicester style and get blitzed by the big sides, as you say

[@patrickchilds2987]

A bit of revision regarding Borthwicks playing career? He was a good player, captained Bath moved to Saracens and 56 odd caps for England the last two as captain. I don't know him but why do you think he has no charisma ? Do you know him ? I doubt he would have had captaincy roles for club and country if he could not engage with the players around him. He us known to be obsessive with detail but that is more important than being the team joker . Why not wait until until yhe team is announced before making more assumptions? England haven't played a overly Leicester type game yet , more like he has tried to play around his set peiceore reminiscent to Sale. I don't want to burst yiur bubble but England will play to secure the set peice and kicking for territory then launch attacks from the opposition half. They are not going to play like Harlequins , this is low risk international rugby . Perhaps he will be bad but why not wait until he does before slagging him .alternatively if you really cant get behind Bortwhick go and support another team and suck the life out of their squad

[@tinypicklenick3601]

As an England fan who actively wants to engage with and support the team, I would find it so much easier to do so if they took 'risks' on some players. I would much rather watch an exciting team of talented players like mercer and radwan do what comes naturally rather than have talented players forced to change to fit a mould.

[@keirlamont2806]

Honestly, and being unbiased here as a Scot, I can see England losing to Argentina and finishing 2nd in their pool. Argentina have a clear philosophy with quality players. Whereas England have quality players but their game plan just looks a bit drab.

[@tomjones1424]

Yeah easily. I'm English and I prefer watching both Argentina and Scotland to England. The England squad is average and not exceptional. But they are boring for sure.

[@06alepea1]

Did you expect Borthwick to be able to implement an all-court, offloading game within five games? Farrell couldn't do that with Ireland until 2022.

[@dandan4092]

@@bm8725easy. They aren’t that shite

[@tomjones1424]

@@06alepea1 he's one dimensional and tackles illegally.

[@kenrehill8775]

Which should mean that they’ll meet Australia in the quarters.

[@user-im5jv8fk8z]

Young at scrum half. He was brilliant 10 years ago. I can't bear it, I count the seconds every time, 1,2,3 and away.

[@Ed_Robson_1970]

I listened to Ben Stokes being interviewed last night after the last day of the Ashes series, even when he was asked about how great this side is he just kept talking about inspiring kids and bringing in new fans through BazBall, and I believed him and it seems to be working. Then I look at England rugby and and I just feel out in the cold, no engagement with me as a fan bar a few pretty boy shots of Marcus Smith on social media, and no desire to inspire on the pitch. It's just a steaming pile of crap coming out of Twickenham at the moment, and with the issues at club level we really need to be inspirational and engaging or we are going to lose our elite levels of the sport quite quickly I fear. The decision to eschew England and the premiership to go and play better, more exciting rugby for better rewards in France will become an easy decision.

[@championthewonderhorse9733]

England have been tedious for years. Even in a down period for the All Blacks they are box office to watch - the speed, the skills, the dynamism. Borthwick's England will have us pining for the Martin Johnson years... (joke)

[@jacklav1]

And then it will have a knock-on effect on young players coming in to the sport.

[@craig3111]

The team when Eddie joined was incredible. Back to back 6N wins. 20 odd game win streak. Needed that team at WC

[@ph5849]

I blame the RFU, utterly useless! Why Shaun Edwards isn’t at the helm is beyond frustrating England have wasted years and are wasting more and more , I feel for some players, outstanding all season for nothing! Favs as always!

[@dazeng4633]

100% agree. We were SCREAMING out for a game changer, not another game player.

[@kenrehill8775]

As Edwards said very publicly: “I wanted a job with a future”

[@ph5849]

Shaun has transformed wales and France over the last decade, the RFU have had many years to contact him for the role. He’s shown to be the best coach for years and he’s English, yet never ( his words) been approached by England. . Pure madness for me.

[@malcolmbradbrook221]

The best England coaches are leading Ireland, developing France, 'inspiring' Leinster to even bigger and better things and now at the helm at Racing 92.

[@dazeng4633]

@@malcolmbradbrook221 well, you can keep Lancaster. Permanent bridesmaid

[@ashleysoudah]

Not having Mercer for the warm up games at the very least giving him decent game time is really not on. And I'm an Ireland fan!

[@Benboy1980]

Totally agree! Why is it everyone else can see it but not our coach? I’m English but it’s very uninspiring. And look who the Ireland coach is…Andy Farell, an Englishman 😅😂 Those boys would run through fire for him

[@romainviry3185]

I ve seen Mercer play for Montpellier… he was really good in their system, thriving Every thing that Dombrand does not

[@ashleysoudah]

@Benboy1980 I love Andy Farrell and wouldn't want any other head coach...cheers England:)

[@ashleysoudah]

@romainviry3185 I personally would have both mercer and dombrandt as my two no.8s in squad as mercer as first choice with another backrow who can play no.8 like tom curry as backup. dombrandt's got skills and runs good lines but as of yet not shown he can match the physicality at international level but he deserves more opportunities.

[@fraserposford144]

Agree with Goode. Borthwick is so intent on playing his system that he's leaving out a tonne of exciting talent. No Mercer, Mitchell and Murley (most likely) all in favour of system players like Cole, the Vunipolas and Malins. If at the World Cup we're down and need a try in the last few minutes of a game, I'm struggling to see where the spark comes from to get that score. This England team will be well drilled and organised but at the moment, I feel it's gonna lack that killer instinct and x factor to be a true contender in France.

[@jasonsen3367]

As an England fan, I think I'm looking forward to seeing how the women do in WXV more than the men in the world cup. Their level of engagement has been excellent.

[@horfieldboy9478]

Agree 100% with everything Goodey has said. We might get to the semi, might not get out of the group but will win no new fans and lose plenty of existing fans. We may not have won the ashes but it was gripping and engaging in a way England Rugby has not been for several years.

[@dazf.c6902]

Agree totally 👍...maybe get Qtrs / SF but but that's will be alot to do with the draw. But this team will not inspire any new people to watch and get them interested afterwards or bring young people to take up the game . The squad is not inspiring and play a bland style for me SB had a great opportunity to pick players to excite and for the future as he had little expectation

[@johndonson1603]

As an Englishman, watching paint dry is more entertaining than watching England, I know people like to say it’s all about the results but England aren’t even achieving that . Awful team , no spontaneity or creativity whatsoever.

[@timtam6442]

Borthwick was a horrible choice. He could talk a glass eye to sleep. The selection of grandad Cole is inspiring

[@alanlewis1045]

Agreed. Also, the selection of both Youngs and VP is ridiculous. Both of them will cost England 7,14, or more points per game, simply by kicking possession the opposition at every single opportunity. It has happened for years with them and they know no other approach.

[@timtam6442]

@@alanlewis1045 Andy Goode hits the nail on the head in the latest Rugby Pod. Edition.

[@attackpatterndelta8949]

Who were the other choices? Robertson was clearly holding out for the NZ job (which he'll get after the world cup). No one else really springs to mind.

[@clementbatut4053]

The Mercer situation is crazy. France is way better than england, one of the best players from top 14 wants to play for england, moves to gloucester and then he is supposedly not good enough to be in the english squad? It seems really weird

[@michaelmercer2440]

Bang on buddy

[@14nst3w4rt]

EJ did the same thing with the European player of the year

[@andrewcavenagh9016]

Same story with Steffon Armitage in 2015.....and remember how far England went in that tournament.

[@clementbatut4053]

@@andrewcavenagh9016 in 2015 top 14 was not à lot better than premiership, nowadays you see in european cups that there is a gap between top 14, leinster and the rest, including premiership, plus armitage didn't move back to england to earn that White Jersey. Still it's not just à matter if sélections since Jack Willis, who is excellent with Toulouse looks average when playing in White. So Mercer would not solve every problem with english rugby, but as à french fan, i'd start by getting him in the squad because he can be a hell of à player. Imagine being voted player of the year by the players when you are in the same league as dupont, aldritt, ollivon ntamack and then not being considered good enough to be a substitute in that england team. I would move right back to the sunny south of France if i were him

[@9Charcot]

The comment around lack of engagement with fans is spot on. I live in France and recently wrote to the RFU asking if England had any open training sessions planned for the RWC (since I have failed miserably to get tickets via the disastrous RWC ticket sales platform). I was hoping to at least be able to go and see the boys up close and wish them luck....In short NO open sessions are planned.....major PR opportunity missed IMO...

[@JoseRodriguez-dx7bf]

Same mate We got a couple of tix but the RWC has told us that we need to now buy a full tix for our 18 month old baby... bonkers I asked the RFU is we could go to a training sesh with the baby and totally blanked us We are not exciting fans. However I do think that we make it to the semi and is anyones game

[@9Charcot]

@@JoseRodriguez-dx7bf You're lucky to even get two tickets ..I am jealous man! Hope you find a baby sitter! 🙂

[@JoseRodriguez-dx7bf]

Thanks. The RFU is great with babies and kids. Babies up to 2 get in free and there's a big drive to get youths in the stadiums!! After being in the 2019 final I was hoping to be in the 2023 as well... After all... French are known for their au pairs....

[@jamesfawcett841]

Totally agree. Just filled in the England Rugby supporter survey. The women’s team do all the things that you are complaining about the men not doing. They are the exciting and approachable face of English rugby.

[@EnglishVeteran]

Watching the last day of the 5th Ashes Test was as hard as watching the extra time of the 2003 RWC!

[@keithrichardsom1898]

Absolutely brilliant and honest podcast

[@darthmaul408]

Goode is bang on here. I have no personal beef with Steve Borthwick, but he was a safe choice from the start. Some of the selections/omissions are reminiscent of Eddie Jones’ tenure. Mercer is the prime example of a player meriting selection for the warm up games at least to see what he offers.

[@vinniechan]

I think bortha is limited in how many changes he can make in a season Theres always some compromise between club and country A bit too early to call and let's not forget ireland and Scotland lost to Japan last RWC

[@darthmaul408]

@@vinniechan Goode’s point on the connection between team and fans is bang on as well. I’m not really a cricket fan, but I was really behind Stokes and the boys because of the way they play and the way they speak to the media. The England rugby team lacks that connection. This goes back further than Borthwick to be fair, but as an Englishman I have no real interest in how they do in the World Cup.

[@richardsmith2825]

We have our own issues in Wales, but we’ve got the joy of the game back. I was there on Saturday. It was fantastic to watch Wales enjoy their rugby again. There’s not much “joy” in England at the moment!

[@NautiusMaximus]

100% agree with goodey

[@Malky24]

The way Borthwick kept chopping and changing his 10's for the slightest thing during the 6 nations wouldn't exactly instill me with confidence if I was an England fan.

[@championthewonderhorse9733]

My problem with Borthwick is that he has inherited a lot of past it players and players who played in a very poor 2022 team and they have ALL retained their positions, and any young talent has been shown the door. So we will go into the RWC with basically the same mediocre team that was below average in 2022, when we could have had the likes of Mercer, Mitchell etc playing. Instead it will be the same old ponderous guff from Youngs, Farrell etc.

[@jep1912]

No. He has the choice to swap any player he likes. Which he should. The only person to blame for England's dismal form is Borthwick.

[@squidandchips]

Great to see you back, fellas. Not an udder in sight! ;-)

[@DoddyIshamel]

England are my dark horses for the WC and I am a Scotland fan. I think Scotland and England are at the same level and if Scotland had that draw I would be salivating. They will very likely get to a Semi and whoever they play will have had to come through the grinder. I think "ordinary unfancied England team gets to WC final" may strike again. Argentina are the team that could completely derail all that so the first game is vital.

[@kenrehill8775]

Either Argentina beat England and top the group and then play wales and get into the semifinals, or they take seconds in the group and play australia and beat them in the quarters and end up in the semi’s. Hard to see how Argentina don’t end up in the semis. England too. Which tells me we’re looking France in the final and probably the ABs,

[@DoddyIshamel]

@kenrehill8775 yeah, but I think whoever wins the Argentina vs England match will get a big psychological boost and also have a quarter against whichever of Wales and Australia is struggling worse. So the winner will go into a Semi in much better form than the loser.

[@willcoxn463]

I'd love Scotland to progress from that group, brutal but you could definitely beat one of Ireland or South Africa

[@DoddyIshamel]

@willcoxn463 I only see it happening if we come out the blocks flying and SA are undercooked. Even then I can see us beating SA and still getting knocked out.

[@joedennehy386]

Well head off to the betting shop you'll get ten to one

[@cro649]

If England rugby was personified it would be Borthwick. No joy, no flair, no risk. Its very hard to promote that to a new generation. Worrying times.

[@championthewonderhorse9733]

Bingo! Can you imagine if we had hired Scott Robinson, England might have been worth watching for the first time in a long time.

[@cro649]

@championthewonderhorse9733 Yes, I think it was always going to be NZ for Razor but you're right - England need that kind of character. Borthwick is clearly a good coach but is he amongst the best in the world? No. And is this job a good fit for a man who does not do media well and doesn't thrill when he's got millions of eyes on the national team. Goodey is right. Kids will want to be Broad or Bairstow or Stokes playing with heart and carefree. Adults and kids will want to watch it and will feel connected to the ethos.

[@greatwhitesharky3261]

Goodey excellent sum up of the England management, England team and how the fans feel.

[@wot4922]

Goode sounds mighty down. Cheer up. Every team goes through ups and downs.

[@christianwithers7335]

But why pick a coach to make things worse

[@rogerpancake6803]

Totally agree ..Arundel got the ball twice last time he played for England ..he could be totally world class but will he ever get the ball..he will for Racing 92 and just watch him go..I’m sort of supporting France even though I’m English ..I just love the way they play without fear

[@billbonnington7916]

agree with everything here other than Goodey's observations on the 10 spot. Currently, Smith is not in the same league as George Ford, and I don't think Faz is ahead of Ford either. Smith is exciting running, but his kicking game and all round game management is not what the other two bring to the table.

[@dazf.c6902]

I agree totally with AG instead of the older players it was an opportunity to blood newcomers especially with some pace. It's all to safe

[@limbothytimothy]

Yeah but the time to do that was 3 years ago, not 7 Games before a World cup. Borthwick was catapulted into the role with very little run up

[@championthewonderhorse9733]

On top of that, all the players guaranteed to play have been playing the last 2 years and have been very mediocre. As always with England, anyone with flair and talent is sidelined.

[@dazf.c6902]

@timmyhmusic but your reasoning is why he should change it up, the performance off these players have been dreadful and shown they very very unlikely to win a world cup so he should try new younger/fresher players. Imagine DC & JM and the majority trying to cope with say a NZ who pace/power in most if not all positions or SA who have power/pace...

[@christianwithers7335]

Andy Gomersall? Surely be isn't in the squad? Is Youngs too young now!

[@christianwithers7335]

Rubbish, he has had a tournament already

[@nathanrattray6898]

Where can I watch full episode

[@dougclark9921]

I have never looked forward to a WC less than this year. We've had good teams and bad teams over the years but this is the first time I've not really cared. It's not just Eddie and Borthwick or the results, its all the stuff going on around the outside....tackle heights, red cards, none stop kicking, etc. It just kills my passion for the game.

[@kenrehill8775]

Should have been the most wide open RWC ever, but the draw fucked it right up. Only two of the world top four can get through the quarters.

[@dougclark9921]

@@kenrehill8775 Yep that as well. I would rather England go out early to good teams than get to a final, get thumped, and then have everyone think that rugby is not broken because of how far we got.

[@kenrehill8775]

@@dougclark9921 yep

[@christianwithers7335]

Spot on

[@leenorton5927]

Totally agree with these comments. I have not had any interest in England since the last WC final, its just been turgid. Sounds bloody ridiculous but as I am half Irish I will prob support then during the WC as atleast you know they have a plan, they execute it so well that is actually quite good to watch.

[@rob.1]

Your support will be missed mate

[@iannoble404]

@@rob.1I’m guessing you’re trying to be funny, but rugby has barely any supporters of the sport and England rugby brings them in. However thanks to boring borthwick lifelong fans are switching off. Without something “good” happening the sport will be dead in 5 years in England. Weren’t already lost 3/13th of our professional clubs in a single year with 2 more facing serious issues. With another 2 begging anyone to buy them….. so yeah, rugby will miss tie guys support.

[@Simwil33]

I'm looking forward to watching Italy take on some lower quality teams. They play so much ball in hand it'll be amazing rugby to watch 🇮🇹

[@struancochrane753]

Has the horse not already bolted, in terms the style the Steve B and England should play. They surely should have done more in the 6 nations rather than back continuity. Has anyone got an idea what England's best team is? As a Scotsman it beggars belief.

[@librapower7810]

As an England fan I totally agree - SB had a free roll of the dice for this WC and last 6N was a drab affair with nothing new or exciting , I've never felt so uninspired by an England team ever , all this talk about semi final is grandiose there is a real possibility England don't make it out of group stage !

[@mikegray8776]

100% behind Goodey’s analysis. No Mercer, No Mitchell, No Simmonds, No Murley ……. And no explanation. Yet Dombrandt & Slade are still there despite not having turned up in an England shirt ever & for 2years respectively.

[@kenrehill8775]

My take on Zack mercer: I’m a Castres and part time Montpellier supporter. I think Eddie jones going to Montpellier was a massive smoke screen, everyone fell for the Mercer thing, and I smelled a rat but just couldn’t work it out. Just over hour by car, is Castres and PH Broncan was the coach there, and I think he also spent time at Gloucester (happy to be corrected). Having spoken to him several times, he speaks English (handy in australia).and I guarantee that Jones and broncan had contact during their time in England. We all know that Eddie had his exit well planned and had been in discussion with australia for at least 18 months prior to his departure, and knew what he had to do to get the big payout by being sacked. Very good work. So Zack got stitched up badly. He thought he was the shoe in 8 for England providing he played in England. I guarantee he’s getting paid less at Gloucester than he was at Montpellier, and he took it thinking he would find himself at pennyhill, right quick. Wrong. I admire Eddie’s acumen, but Zack got fucked, because everyone was watching what they could see Eddie doing in the stands at Montpellier, but not what he was doing at Castres, because it wasn’t on TV. Unlucky Zack.

[@cro649]

God sake, don't write a book, I don't even follow what you're saying. Care to sum it up again, succinctly?

[@kenrehill8775]

@@cro649 try reading for comprehension, wnker. Typical little Englander.

[@Rugbyhead1998]

@@cro649Eddie went to France to get Zach to come back. Eddie got sacked, Borthwick in and Zach got the booy

[@jond747]

If that is all true then I feel very sorry for Zack. From a rather uninspired England fan.

[@cro649]

@Rugbyhead1998 Thanks for that.

[@dannyboywhaa3146]

Until the sending off against Ireland, England looked pretty good to be fair! I thought it was a good response to the defeat against France, until the sending off!

[@kenrehill8775]

Spot on. I think we’d have seen a very different story but for the sending off. Not necessarily that England would have won, but ireland were already making a ton of mistakes under pressure, and there were no clues that this was going to change.

[@sambingham1196]

Think Ireland had the jitters and comfortably pulled away at the end.

[@kenrehill8775]

@@sambingham1196 “jitters” = had it stuffed up them by England, made a ton of errors. “Pulled away in the end” = not sure how strong you are on maths, or if you understood that Steward got a red card, but ireland had a numerical (that means that they had more players on the pitch) for over half the game.

[@dannyboywhaa3146]

@@sambingham1196 with an extra man lol 😳

[@dannyboywhaa3146]

@@kenrehill8775 I think they would’ve gone on to win that game... first 20 minutes they were down slightly on score board but had been battering Ireland - was only a matter of time and then came the crazy, dumbfounding decision - and the worst non-partisan commentary I’ve ever witnessed for the Irish lads! Absolutely shocking - they’d sell their own mothers that lot!

[@dalenewton9697]

Don't agree about the need to change style, but the Mercer omission, if it turns out he really isn't in Borthwick's plans, is inexplicable to me as well. Only way it makes sense to me is if they are going for an all out, uncompromising power game with only 2 no.8's, Vunipola and Tom Willis, who arguably hold a slight edge over Mercer in raw physicality in tight exchanges. Beyond that I can't understnd it. Pace, power, kicking game, skills, offloads. He's got the lot.

[@andrewcavenagh9016]

Argentina have just beaten Australia and come within a point of SA. Would anyone with an ounce of judgement really back England to do the same right now? Finiishing second in their group looks the most likely outcome to me, setting up a QF against Australia.

[@TomboBrewster]

Am going to Marseille games, and I'm looking forward to the Scotland vs SA game so much more than watching my own team against Argentina the day before.

[@sidney8680]

Man southern hemisphere teams gonna love England's style this year at wc

[@amadan34]

Love this podcast

[@nicholasslee8903]

Mr Goode is BANG ON with all his comments regarding Steve Borthwick as England head coach in this podcast. I believe the English fans will show their feeling by the lack of support in the coming WC. Why spend hard-earned money to watch a boring English team plod on. As an avid rugby fan I am tired of my team and find myself supporting other countries. I hope the WC in France showcases our wonderful sport to the highest levels and a northern hemisphere team lifts the Webb Ellis Cup.

[@TP1988]

I think Borthwick is an excellent coach, but the engagement thing - he’s right. I’d not thought of it, but I’ve never been less excited - less interested even in England at RWC. Includes ‘07 and ‘11, which were also not vintage teams. And I’m already ‘captured,’ life long fan and club season ticket holder. Yet I’m looking forward to the Prem more. Not good.

[@Simon65946]

Well said. I'm sure most of us feel the same. How hard can it be? At least start by getting your best players at each position, on the pitch together. My mum could pick the best team on stats alone.

[@simonclare5422]

England were one dimensional under Jones and worse in 6 nations with Borthwick, can’t even see us making quarters in RWC, totally agree with you Goodey, someone needs to take the handbrake off the England squad and see how far they fly

[@joeyeomanson9505]

The comments here were exactly the same as Leicester Tigers fans when he first took over and borthwick tried to drill in basics and gameplan. I believe England will be a much changed team by the time the World Cup comes around

[@carbonnieferrous2689]

Youd think that Goodey was talking after the Fiji game. Shows how transparent Borthwick is.

[@andreweveritt3829]

Well said...comparison between cricket and rugby.

[@redgozza]

Definitely some truth in that, but also getting your "told you so's" in early so you can quote yourself if things go badly.

[@oldershikari828]

2:22, I completely agree.. This is how I felt under Stuart Lancaster too..

[@JacobvantHoff]

I was so with you guys backing Razor Robertson.. never saw Borthwick going well at this level but hopefully proven wrong

[@Ben_Dover15]

Goodey looking svelte on the tele the other day, the watt bike is working!

[@GP-dr4ub]

100% agree , any flair we have is held back

[@Mikeup104]

This is something the English don’t seem to understand. They keep talking about ‘how we play’ thinking ‘attractive’ rugby is the only thing that will bring fans in. As a bok fan I think you are all crazy. Play whatever style will give you the best shot at winning. When you are winning, interest will come back. U think player numbers took a drop in SA when we played the most boring rugby to win the 2019 RWC. Naaa Man U guys are off the pace here I think.

[@Mikeup104]

Also rassie Erasmus won the World Cup taking over the team with one year and the first thing he did was simplify and focus on the key parts of the game not playing an “exciting” style of rugby.

[@jonnybaynham1689]

Erasmus took over in 2018, so he had 2018 AND most of 2019, 2x rugby seasons and nearly 2 years. And as you say he took the Boks back to basics and solidified a simple but incredibly effective gameplan. Andy 'Piers Morgan' Goode just doesn't like Borthwick and really has gone on a ridiculous rave here

[@Shandyboy8612]

Erasmus rugby was the most negative boring rugby I have ever seen but it still inspired a nation!

[@thecuttingsark5094]

It’s a proven fact that winning (by any means) is the only thing that boosts spectator numbers. Exciting ‘styles’ of play don’t make a difference. Also, the last time I checked, there were no points for style in Rugby, but there are in rhythmic gymnastics. It’s also worth pointing out that kicking has always been an integral part of the game, it’s called Rugby ‘football’ after all. There isn’t a single team in world rugby that can play ‘attractive’ rugby without first setting up a platform of set piece, kicking and strong basics.

[@NTL578]

You’re right but I think that playing in that physical attritional way, won’t work either. That’s the problem. So if you’re playing that way AND it doesn’t work that’s even worse 😂

[@mvubu6823]

A Borthwick walking into an interview room is like someone just left.

[@stephenhubber9184]

England will be lucky to get through the group stages

[@neilcarpenter2669]

Let's wait and see how England play in the warm up games before being critical, they didn't have enough time in the 6 nation's to really change much but now they have had time together with Borthwicks preferred coaching team so let's reserve judgement for now. Personally I couldn't care less if people think he's boring, what I want is excellence on the field of play and a team that we can be proud of .

[@christianwithers7335]

Proud!! Haha, are you 12?

[@NTL578]

@@christianwithers7335What you on about?

[@neilcarpenter2669]

@@christianwithers7335 No I'm not 12 , why are you looking for a 12 year old for company? Wrong site mate .

[@campbelltribe]

Spot on, the players are paid to play, not to do interviews. Pundits are never going to win anything because they can't coach!

[@tjrugbymuscle]

I don’t think it’s down to the coach to tell stories of the players and stuff to the press, that’s the RFU. As far as risks and “changing the narrative”, weren’t both EJ and Borthwick coaches when they played really exciting Rugby?

[@jorgetadeunago]

This podcast should be called the RUGBY’S KARENS It is even fascinating to watch “I don’t like the French they don’t speak English!” “I had a beef with him … in my head!” England need “to try new things!” Man your depth of analysis is stratospheric “England has a new coach - poor team no passion nothing ….” and yet like in any sport Karen deserve a victory or “at least we get a semi” Well you probably woke with one to be that optimistic!

[@poopnose1231]

This is great to watch after the first warm up. 20-9 to Wales. Goode is right.

[@j.mahoney1178]

Looking forward to the Wales v England game here's where Gatland and Wales show where we are going into the World Cup, I think Hamilton and Goode are going to look a bit foolish with writing Wales off in past Rugby podcasts.

[@aidanmitchell8493]

The laugh at Fiji coming out of the pool over England 😂 RmThe test series have been suprising

[@mikedaknight8854]

Is this why he was appointed as England coach? Had the results with Leicester granted, but did the old farts in the RFU want someone they could potentially control?

[@nicholascoles152]

I agree 100% with AG. Only the other day I was saying to my lad that I enjoy watching England cricket more than England rugby nowadays. As a lifelong rugby fan I can’t believe I’m saying this 🤨 .. like many other comments, for me this is the least excited I’ve every been for a Rugby World Cup.

[@championthewonderhorse9733]

The England rugby team is FULL of exciting, dynamic athletes who are given free reign to play with freedom. I am not sure England rugby has EVER had that ethos, no one with flair gets to play for England, it's all brute strength and keeping it tight.

[@ThomasBarthoulot]

How may games have you won as a coach Andy ?

[@kenrehill8775]

How many have you won as a prem player, England player, or coach?

[@glynmatthews678]

Andy's Borthwick impression gets me everytime 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@claredewhurst9400]

who in the England squad has the ability to inspire and lift the team when things are getting tough. Who is that risk taker?

[@barryroberts2196]

Watching the two games against Wales, I felt I would be better off sticking red hot pins in my eyes, it would be less painful. Come on England, prove me wrong !

[@craighb72]

100% agree Goodey

[@cybertrophic]

England should be looking to play at speed - recycling speed like Sarries and Tigers just lets the defence organise and smash the crap out of us. Get down to sub 3-seconds like Quins (who don't rely on up-front dominance) and you can keep a defence rolling back, you create 7 or 8 different attack vectors that the unsettled defence has to cover. Plan A again and again just tells the defence where to focus and the slow recycling means they are organised - same thing every time: 5-10 seconds minimum to set up another caterpillar ruck, so the defence is set up and blitzing and leave one guy in the back field to clear up the inevitable high ball to nowhere. As for "Dombrandt is poor, Billy is in form", lets be blunt: in a "poor" 6 nations, Dombrandt made 5.6m per carry and 83% of his tackles. Last time Billy played for england he made 4.4m per carry and 75% of his tackles. Domestically this season, Billy average 2m per carry, Dombrandt made 12,6m per carry. Dombrandt had far better defensive stats, as well as making 8 clean breaks beating 31 defenders and scoring 10 tries. And that was a "quiet" season for Dombrandt. Take off the Sarries-tinted specs and Dombrandt is a country mile ahead of Vunipola, who is slow, weak in contact and usually injured. In fact, he's still injured and not training in camp right now. Manu is not training because they don't want him *to get* injured. What idiocy is that? Mercer, I remain unconvinced, but take him and Dombrandt. Stop kissing Farrell's arse, as he has been declining at Test level every year since 2020 and was bloody awful in the autumn and six nations. Build a squad around Smith, bring in Finn Smith as the backup. roll the dice, as we'll be lucky to get out of the pools with the current favourite lineup and tactics, let alone challenge for a win. Build for 2027 and cull the 2019 era deadwood as Farrell, Youngs, Ford, both Vunipola's and Cole (how is he even near a test team?) and the rest should have gone long ago to allow us to develop the youth.

[@alexdonner9081]

Goode as usual with no axe to grind or a chip on his shoulder. Borthwick is a proven winner - just let him cook.

[@vinniechan]

That comparison with Razzie is a bit unfair if the premesis was to make changes Razies strength was that he understood the strength of the Boks While he didnt take a look at a few players he brought in he didnt waste any time reinventing the wheel ans tripple down on thr identity of thr Bok Goode mentioned if you reach the semi anything goes which was precisely what happened with thr Boks The problem with England is Eddie has always some idea of how the gsme is played so he worked to build the game like a clockwork If things dont work there is no inherent identity to tap into

[@robertwhalley882]

I dont see how I get more engaged with the England set up while spineless, visionless Sweeney is in charge, a good clean out is needed. Borthwick maybe be boring but he is shrewd, if a better context and vision were presented to him as necessary he is smart enough to make adjustments in that direction.

[@lukedudley5030]

Is he? I've not seen him ever change an approach to a game when the team was against the wall...they continue with the boring kick chance and play for opposition mistakes...this might work for the premiership (which has been in decline for a couple of years now) but against the best in the world that type of game gets you battered so sadly I'm not holding my breathe for any adaption during tough games this world cup.

[@Mohamedali-xw1ep]

I’m really worried for England in this World Cup

[@andrewtaylor5771]

Completely agreed mate. I think we are going to get tanked by Argentina and then struggle through the group. We will be dumped out of the Rwc by Australia. 😢😢

[@grahamwarne6916]

Hard to fault this Goodey.....your comments about lack of engagement and involvement with fans is so true.....RFU lot to answer for and Steve Borthwick should have taken some risks and changes in 6 Nations to build for the World Cup.....I.e. World Cup 2023 ...not 2027...way its going is building for World Cup 2019

[@rp7422]

I never really liked Andy, but that’s as a player and he played for teams I didn’t like, but so astute and insightful

[@99PTR99]

When was the last time England had consistent, sustained success? We should bring that person back.

[@dandan4092]

Goodey looking leaner

[@duncanjbrown]

Goody makes a very good point here too. Being a fan isnt just about watching the team grind out a result. We need entertaining (like England cricket have done). For me Borthwick is from an old era when the international game was different...hope im wrong, but never liked him as an England player...

[@Andy-Capp]

He won the Premiership with a team full of South Africans

[@philipevans1027]

Andy one of the best pundits, the guy speaks straight.

[@andrewharris1837]

There is huge English talent playing in Premiership &France but only a few selected.As many say Borthwick a dull choice .Engl may not even make QF as will lose to Argies game 1.Depressing after wonderful Ashes series

[@attackpatterndelta8949]

As a London Irish fan, seeing my team go to the wall has drained what ever enthusiasm i had left for rugby union. Might give this world cup a miss.

[@ed1726]

There is a difference between a club coach and an international coach. As a club coach you can bring players in, you have more time to work with players, to an extent you can get away with forcing your opinion through until the players get it. As an international coach you have less time, you can't make transfers, and the players may all regularly play against each other and not really like each other that much. Obviously you need to be able to coach either way, but I see the jobs as requiring different skill sets.

[@battlevgaming9887]

He said he feels as far away from the england team as ever. But i felt as close to Leicester i ever have done in that season we won. Steve’s been given such little time to change things here. The players and coaches trust him, why wont the idiot pundits?

[@mikegray8776]

Since he appointed the coaches, that’s not entirely surprising. The players will NEVER say anything other than supportive things about the coach - or they will watch the whole tournament from the stands. Who criticised Eddie before he left? I have been hoping that we would have seen even occasional hints of an attacking “structure” emerging - but no - ZERO !! And why Mitchell, Mercer & Murley are not even being taken in a support role, defies belief. If Billy, Manu, BenY and Faz do not play out of their skins - in the very twilight of their careers - we have no chance of even making it out of the group.

[@joebranston738]

Andy Farrell is the next England coach. And hopefully soon.

[@joebranston738]

Goodey is right!

[@robertpritchard6240]

Like others watching this video, I totally agree with Andy Goode. I personally don't see Borthwick being in charge for more than four years at best .Bring back Lancaster

[@REX4340]

At least Borthwick has spotted the key problem with England, NOT FIT ENOUGH.If super fit, we don't need to change the way we play!

[@AlexDavis-xv2xg]

Couldn’t agree more Zach mercer should be in the squad

[@vesselinamarinova9728]

Agreed

[@nickg5940]

Goode clearly has history with Borthwick and he can’t let it go, unfortunately that stops him from being impartial. If England win their pool & QF most England fans will be happy, is Andy Goode ever happy?

[@f1j11slander4]

AG argument actually makes sense.

[@quins8668]

Can't understand borthwicks decision especially with murley he scored the most tries in the gallagher premiership and it would seem like a no brainer to at least try him out in the summer nation series

[@craigwithey]

Boring old England it’s been said many many times over the years The prem last 3-5 years has been interesting rugby but yet England remains same old Farrell show kick to the corner, defend like hell and hope for a few penalties I completely agree we need a plan b,c ~x,y,z also let the players play what’s in front of them

[@oliverhampton8949]

Goodey - I don't understand when you say he doesn't let the players do anything to keep them shielded but don't they do that O2 KZbin video series like every tournament, Borthwick's let them do that and lots of people watch that and you see (admittedly not all players) but you see a good fair few! maybe tune in!

[@kenrehill8775]

That’s heavily sanitised

[@NTL578]

That’s the most boring, clinical, media sanitised content out there.

[@mrdrevilporkchop666]

so exhausted by England coaches not picking the best players... zach mercer solves so many of englands issues

[@kenrehill8775]

I Hope he heads back to Montpellier right quick.

[@inserviceofthesublime]

If you don't believe, you don't achieve.....Collective belief, we gotta be positive on and off the pitch, even the pundits are part of the team

[@dazeng4633]

What WANK