Who Should be England’s Next Fly Half | Rugby Pod with Dan Biggar

With Owen Farrell off to France and out of the international Rugby picture for the foreseeable who will Steve Borthwick select to fill that famous 10 jersey?
Dan Biggar looks at two options here, same surname but very different playing styles - Marcus Smith of Harlequins and Fin Smith of Northampton Saints.
See more from The Rugby Pod 🎧 www.hoo.be/therugbypod
0:00 Young, fresh blood
0:30 How does Marcus play?
04:54 How does Fin play?
07:54 Same same but different
10:00 Things you don't know
12:18 What does it take to be at the top
14:13 Choosing England's Next 10

[@Rugby2000]

Dan has been an unbelievable addition to the show.

[@georgepomfret734]

Couldn’t agree more

[@NZAnimeManga]

Agreed.

[@generalmoralhazard]

He’s better than Goodey. Fantastic addition.

[@harrydennis6854]

Agreed!

[@SeanLarkan]

Never heard a guy as insightful as Dan on back play: amazing what he sees & recalls & explains so clearly & succinctly. Would imagine he’d be an outstanding backline coach for an international team. Great the respect he shows for other players.

[@Alex-mj5dv]

Agree, Dan is really good - also, give George Ford a listen on Ben Youngs’ and Dan Cole’s pod this week. Really rare to get that insight from him and he rarely does those sorts of things. Incredibly detailed and thorough - and yes, like listening to what he is - a player coach.. and I’m sure it’s what he will go into when he retires. Imagine Owen Farrell is the same too. Any top class fly half gives great insight for us rugby nerds.

[@EnglishVeteran]

When he was playing for Wales against England I “hated” Biggs, obviously! Now? Great man! Could listen to him all day! Great addition to an already bloody good show! 😊

[@whitebear5405]

Fair play Dan Biggers ability to analyse Rugby is second to none. From the looks of it. Fin plays better with structure, Marcus is better when its loose. I believe at international Rugby Fin might end up being the long term 10 because of that

[@joeboonmusic4004]

The future looks like a Fin Smith start with a Marcus Smith finish... I'm not sure many could complain about that as a prospect!

[@MattScahill]

Finn is the 10, I’d then have Marcus on the bench in case something needs changing up or can come on for Furbank at 15 if needed.

[@esprit333]

I'm not sure I can recall a current or former No10 who has been able to so expertly dissect and explain the nuts and bolts of this, the most pivotal and qualitative position in the game we love. All of the positions in rugby have nuances to some are easier to decipher than others, and it's one thing to understand your own position for yourself, it's entirely another to have the ability to explain it those who love the game but haven't played at that level Can't wait to see what Biggs does when he hangs up the boots... hopefully he puts those boots straight back on and starts coaching the next generation of 10s

[@kylewestman5400]

More of this please! Biggs insight needs is phenomenal

[@SimonCope-in8zb]

Biggar's ability to analyse is super. Up there with Kayser and Warburton as most analytical pundits. Huge addition to the show. Superb position for English rugby having both Smith's playing well.

[@wiehanjordaan4771]

Please keep Dan on, he bring a different side to this podcast.

[@clivepalmer3545]

Finn is on his way. This detail is really helpful. I feel Finn is a player you can build around with a clear plan

[@paulcoomber4009]

Brilliant analysis by Dan. Great addition to the team.

[@BootsontheTable]

Quality analysis. Bigger is a huge asset to the pod

[@NZAnimeManga]

Great video, thanks Dan!

[@barkerk100]

Excellent. Thank you, Dan.

[@tinypicklenick3601]

I would love to see videos like this on other dilemmas... Like the second 9 for france, best centre partnerships for ireland, best back row combos for Wales, etc.

[@user-dv4mo6ee3o]

Fab analysis. More of this please team!

[@henryburton6529]

Love bigs, huge England fan, can’t wait for this

[@retlwiz]

I agree it should be Fin with Marcus as replacement/full-back. Ford has still got 2-3 good years in him, though.

[@tim73639]

Great analysis, enjoyed this

[@andreemurray7039]

Dan thank you for your comments very informative

[@nickjohns999]

An interesting, thoughtful, detailed analysis by a man who has done it all himself at the highest level.

[@harrydennis6854]

This is class. Need more breakdowns from Dan

[@davidmoon8464]

Absolutely brilliant assessment from an intelligent fly half.

[@redsidebiker]

As a Taff, I would say that Ford has the cheek of a classic 10 (fsck the rules and plays) IMHO he is GOOD. That's hard to say, but well meant. Cheers Biggs, hope you're doing great.

[@MR-tb4po]

Hated Dan as an England fan. This was hugely insightful and really engaging. Best thing I’ve seen on YT for a while. Well done Dan. As an ex no 8 this content meant a huge amount to me. It confirmed I knew nothing

[@stephencoombes5415]

Great analysis. Although older Marcus has I think more scope to improve. He has amazing attacking talent which is almost impossible to learn. If he can add better game management which can be learnt then he will be the man. Finn has the game management but may struggle to improve his attacking game so Marcus is the man for me. Having said that Test rugby is different and Finn looks closer to the old guard of Farrell and Ford so may well get the nod.

[@SweptDust5340]

It’s almost impossible to play how Marcus does at club in international as the 10- Russel the most obvious exception to that. It’s more important to have everything else for breaking down good structure to win a game and that’s Fin. I agree Marcus can learn but at Quins i don’t see him getting that development

[@nath4nt]

Marcus would only have time to attack like that in the last quarter of the game when bodies are tiring. Test rugby leaves you with very little time. Remember Fin is only 21 so has plenty of time to improve depending on how he’s asked to play. Not many play like Marcus, which may actually hinder him unfortunately.

[@notenoughstones3873]

@@SweptDust5340even Russell struggles a lot if the time when he comes up against the top teams with fast line speed. The difference in speed and accuracy of defences at club vs international level is massive. Finn Smith imo has better attributes for test rugby

[@SweptDust5340]

@@notenoughstones3873 we agree

[@kev63inuk]

Just wondered if the Irish would swap their 3 Best 10s for Englands options of Ford Marcus and Finn . I reckon they would . Any Irish fans on here saying I’m talking rubbish. ? Do respect Crowley by the way.

[@tombutcher3021]

Dan that was an interesting post. enjoyable!

[@kev63inuk]

Great assessment Dan. Used to hate you playing against England but knew you’d be a great pundit. Great insight comparing Marcus and Fin. Look forward to more anaysis from you .

[@JoeyJoeJoex]

Great analysis. If I look at the squad and more recently what England have tried to implement in the six nations, I would say Fin is being primed. The ball carriers we have in our squad, lend the system to Fin - however, I love Marcus as a true attacking 10. We haven’t had a 10 running threat for years, and his unpredictability throws oppositions off if executed in the right team structure.

[@adrianstockwell1]

Dan’s a sooper dooper pundit, very impressive. Insightful, analytical, observant and speaking from being one of the best ‘10’s’ in recent years. As an England fan, I’d always hoped he had a little old English Granny lurking somewhere over the ‘border’ in England!😉

[@usarugbyleagueunionfan]

Great analysis.

[@MkVenner1975]

Saracen’s new signing Fergus Burke is English qualified, it’ll be interesting to see how well he does.

[@austenpowers]

Great analysis mate 👏👍🍻

[@jonathandeleyser1782]

This is so so good.

[@jule1934]

Smith is like Carlos Spencer

[@simonhague2674]

Very good video!

[@jamesgunn5103]

I am very torn, I have not watched Finn Smith as much as I would like, but "the pros" speak very highly of him and he undoubtedly has a lot of ability. Playing alongside / around Marcus Smith must require his team mates to expect anything and react accordingly and for much of his England career his inside centre offered no offensive threat (Sorry Faz,, you're a great player and guy, but not a 12) and instead was playing with the "one trick second playmaker" who playing Eddie Jones instructions would kick for Jonny May to chase). Esterhuizen makes Marcus Smith look so much more dangerous and it will be interesting to watch Harlequins with a new 12 next year ! Getting back to England, with the right backs and loose forwards, Marcus Smith is a world beater, but England needs to find some more of them and give them all some game ime together. Aren't we blessed with two terrific players and George Ford is n;t finished yet ! Thanks Dan B for the really insightful thoughts !

[@sifisontuli4873]

The way Dan describes Marcus' play style sounds exactly like the kind of player England need at fullback

[@adamrussell6442]

You touched on Marcus's ability to cover fallback right at the end but I think that's a great strength. I think you could esily have both smiths in at once. Fin the starter then marcus as bench player for both fallback and Fly

[@Mikeup104]

Cant compliment Dan on his transition onto this show. ZA

[@loki_of_earth]

At international level I'm expecting Fin Smith to become first choice. But either way great to have 2 quality and contrasting fly halves

[@henrymilleruk100]

Even as a die hard Quins fan it’s hard to argue with Finn having a season being Marcus

[@user-co9wi2lj2j]

Dan has a bright future in coaching.

[@Ulesthorpe1950]

Great insight and, for a Welshman, he ain't arf bad!!🤣🤣

[@jackpuddiphatt9179]

What a pair of young 10s we got, I’d go for Finn Smith as a starter and Smith can change the game of the bench whether that’s 10/15

[@thomasjenkins8342]

Finn Smith is like a combination of Ford and Farrell with a bit more running, if he can take and keep the 10 shirt and England win some big games then he could go down as an England GOAT

[@user-lc2nq2vu1m]

Big decision for Steve Borthwick as we have 3 fine number 10s . Would be happy to see Finn or Marcus take the reins for England going forward.

[@ianbailey2733]

Smiths defence has improved markedly to the point that Ford is now the weaker defender set against either Smith

[@EdLo3]

Great analysis Dan. Ford is still the man for me but as a back-up Smith has to be given a shot. We know what Marcus can do.

[@user-vj7zn5dw6r]

Smith M. or Smith F.?

[@Hunchbacc]

I reckon Smith will be the next 10

[@Bpt8825]

Fin smith starting and Marcus Smith is the perfect sun fly half

[@user-vj7zn5dw6r]

Great analysis, great video. But what's the betting Ford starts every game for the rest of the year😂

[@MarkFrankUK]

Surely Borthwick needs to develop (at least) two flyhalves? There are bound to be periods when one or the other is injured and you need different approaches for different opponents, weather etc.

[@greylag8630]

Cheers for that Biggs - great review. So Marcus is a better rugby player but because Finn is more like Owen Farrell (yawn!) he'll be picked by Borthwick...

[@andrewharris1837]

Fin is the future with Marcus at fullback.

[@colstoun4762]

Fin at 10 Marcus at 15 picking times to be playmaker. More importantly though just enjoying Biggar so much the insight and balance with biggar and Jim on the pod is a much more enjoyable product to listen to compared with Jim and Goode. Time for a change for good I think.

[@Sale_england_rugby_fan]

I would like fin to play fly half and Marcus to play fullback

[@rob.1]

Fin has the higher ceiling.

[@robslade9281]

Question is probably, who starts and who's on the bench...

[@MegaAlexanderholmes]

Biggar was a Saints man for years, great analysis but potentially a bit of bias there

[@Alex-mj5dv]

Potentially. However the more I watch Fin Smith.. and not to sound too hyperbolic, because I mean just as a reminder - he reminds me of Dan Carter. His rounded game, his strong defence, the flashes of running the line. Marcus is mercurial, like Finn Russell, kids love watching him - but will therefore make errors. I just think for the Test arena the ceiling of F Smith is higher, and it’s suited to his natural style and physicality. I say this as a Quin btw - Marcus starting at 10 for England.. in knockout rugby. I just never feel secure nor will do. F Smith.. I think one day he will be secure like Faz and Ford.

[@user-sd3hb6ru1w]

Having watched the recent super summer game between these two, Finn is the steady player and Marcus the more eye catching. It’s a great problem for us to have. I do feel it’s time to move on from Farrell (who is out anyway) and Ford with lots of love and thanks. But these two Smiths aren’t the future, they are the present. Totally agree with all the Dan Biggar love. He’s nothing like the antagonistic player he was for Wales, (not withstanding he was bloody good),he’s a media star. Would fit on tye main channels better than the likes of Gareth Thomas, Johnno, Jonny or Clive “winning” Woodward.

[@garethfergusson9538]

Now that there's a Flyhalf who knows what he's talking about, will Fatty pursue his dream job of King Bill's WR court jester?

[@Msmith10quins]

Not a debate Marcus a by mile. Also Marcus is NOT A FULLBACK don’t understand y people think he’s a fullback. And fin can just jump in with injury to Marcus and the fact that he has been picked for lions Marcus just breaks. And like Dan said he’s bigger than people think he’s bigger than ford as borthwick showed put smith at centre against Italy don’t understand Marcus is the future but I will it helps having a game managing 10 saying that porter isn’t one and Marcus doing great also play Alex dombrant 8 for combo and he is so good over will evens should play 7 because people think he is weak but he’s made the most tackles this season

[@NotThatOneThisOne]

Dan's Mrs' cakes are fabulous. Just saying.

[@davidwalker2402]

Marcus just gets run over in defence, Finn is where Englands future is. But eoin farrell is the best fly half in England by a long way.

[@jingleballix]

What about Max Malins at 10??

[@user-dv4mo6ee3o]

He was the best on the pitch against Smith this week!

[@expressoevangelism80]

We wasted all of Cipriani, I wonder how we can mess this situation up? I obviously have quite a unique way of looking at players, as I always thought the Farrell could never bring his club game to the international match, and he was a frustrating waste of space. Kick, kick, kick, kick and oh yes kick. Did Farrell ever put his centres through clever angles of running through holes? Not in an England match.

[@nicolasnott2739]

Playing it safe has always been Englands Achilles heel. We need some flair and some magic. Steady as you go only gets you to the semi finals.

[@bulltraderpt]

Dan looks like he's a chewing a wasp when chatting about England!

[@bashab3098]

George Ford , Smith cannot do at international level , what he does at premiership . No maverick stand-off has succeeded long term at international level

[@martinruffell4077]

He's so much more than a maverick. Someone hasn't watched Quins much over the past couple of seasons!

[@bashab3098]

@@martinruffell4077 where as you have , and as such completely miss my point . Put your feelings aside and be objective , then you may at least be able to read and understand.

[@Alex-mj5dv]

@@martinruffell4077I’m a Quins fan, watch often - he can’t play that same way at Test level. He’s had 31 caps now for England and still people seem unsure. He’s exciting to watch, like Finn Russell, will pull rabbits out of hats, looks unplayable at domestic level… but for England, starting 10, knockout rugby .. I think the future after Ford and Faz is F Smith.

[@deaddropholiday]

Until England get the public school biffs out of the organizational structure you can just forget it. Same issues which infect cricket. Jobs for the old school tie rather than people who want to win. Backstabbing. Infighting. Pretty jealousies and the like. It's why England always fall short. They should sack all of them and put Shaun Edwards in total control. Now that's a leader of men.

[@jonesyjones7626]

Nonsense. Inverted snobbery is just as bad as any other form of discrimination. Attitudes like yours are toxic to team environments. I’m not an ex-public school boy either.

[@deaddropholiday]

@@jonesyjones7626 And Farrell or Edwards should have had the England job ages ago. So - you tell me what "snobbery" is at work there.

[@patrickchilds2987]

Which players farts are you talking about ? The RFU has changed since Carling was playing, yes there are some legacy appointments but they are rugby related rather than public school bods . There will always be a public school core at the rfu but that is because school rugby in England is predominantly public schools. It isn't a class argument it is fact. Cronyism is certainly prevalent in grass root level but larger clubs are businesses and are administered as such . Bleat all you like about class and public school types but you are out of date by about 20 years Aside from the odd ex player in a specislist or executive role most senior RFU appointments are sports administrators who have been brought in from business and non rugby backgrounds. The rfu representatives have certainly come under scrutiny for Cronyism but not necessarily based on class

[@wilkinson83]

The best 10 in England does not 'come off the bench' or 'cover full back' he starts at 10. It's M. Smith's time.

[@ghotio1927]

Joe Simmonds better than both