These are AWESOME! Added SumoSprings to our Fifth Wheel RV!

[@BigTruckBigRV]

Yep, brake line installation is another project I need to tackle.

[@danharris5873]

Need all this suspension stuff because our roads are so crappy!

[@mathewkulczyk1645]

These springs are a good idea. I'm thinking it would help significantly when I'm traveling on mountain roads that are not regularly maintained and that's where I usually go to camp like many other people. Reduction of the interior of the RV'S construction from shaking apart and hopefully will make it last longer before things get loose and start to separate. Great video. Thanks. 😁

[@Billsadventures13]

Yes, I feel like these are a good add. I put them on my toy hauler which has under axle leaf springs. Made the towing smoothing on rough roads and things move around a lot less inside trailer…like my paper towels don’t unwind any more on the holder

[@peteurban975]

Good stuff, JD. Based on your first vid I ordered two sets and installed them on my Momentum 354M. I did a little drive and hit some bad roads and could immediately notice a significant positive difference. Less jarring transferred to the TV and less trailer sway. Thanks again for your channel.

[@ricbailey170]

Were you riding inside to notice this?

[@peteurban975]

@@ricbailey170 not riding inside the RV. Seat of pants measurement from driver seat. Same road driven before Sumo springs (one week ago) had a noticable difference.

[@markb8486]

I noticed your leaf spring band driver side front left leaf spring has moved out of the spring divot. You can see on the spring where the spring band is supposed to sit to hold the leafs together.

[@brogan56]

Good video, you answered all my questions as to why do this at the end. I've installed these in my tow vehicle and have been very happy with the comfort and ride results but had not thought about them for my RV. Thanks for the info!

[@ericmcpherson2894]

Love the idea. Will be looking into it further. I think how you went about it was the safest most effective way to accomplish it. Nice work.

[@danmassie]

On the third axle you did, it looks like the strap that holds your leaf springs together has slid forward and is barely holding that leaf in place

[@wadeh9302]

How are these compared to having 4 shocks? Shocks would have resistance in both directions up and down, these seem to have it only in one direction with it only hooked to your axle only for the bottom and the top just has the weight of the trailer resting on it

[@thats_mr_b_]

Going to look into this

[@terrybader5723]

The person who installed those brake lines needs to be fired! What was he thinking?

[@mattcaser6581]

I'm thinking since you appear to be preloading the SumoSprings at normal ride height, you are going to have a pretty stiff ride. I use SumoSprings under the rear of one of my trucks, and have found they are best with about a 1/2" air gap as the truck sits at normal height. That way they only come into play once the initial 1/2" of travel is stroked into, whether from load in the bed or from normal suspension movement.

[@SuperSpringsInternational]

hey Matt - in the trailer sumo springs, they're designed to be at 10-20% preload. That's the sweet spot on the parabolic spring curve where they provide 68% g force reduction / damping. On the trucks, many folks have SumoSprings with more mass, or that are our higher density springs. In those scenarios, you want the spring with a gap to allow for minimal impact to factory ride when the truck is unloaded. -Adam

[@mattcaser6581]

@@SuperSpringsInternational good info. Thanks for the followup/clarification. I sure do like the Sumo Springs under the back of the truck.

[@douglasruth8288]

Anybody notice the rigid steel brake line? Where's the other end objected too?

[@RM-sr1ib]

If that disc brake setup was a factory install I’d be pissed… if that was after market, done by a shop, I’d want my money back… if you did it yourself you should not be doing installs… those lines are trouble waiting to happen…

[@BigTruckBigRV]

@@Itsa_Mea I certainly didn't do it. But it is being addressed

[@Kevin-jy9kr]

I agree with you. It needs to be addressed. There a plastic tie wrapped around axle and brake lines.

[@DIYManiacJohnP]

Are those brake lines secured with Zip-Ties?????!

[@brianbelliveau5551]

So I’m installing the MORryde 3000 and the 5 k sumo springs as well what are your thoughts on this install ?

[@ramrunnr]

I would have Jack stands placed to "catch" the RV incase a stability jack failure.

[@spikestubbs210]

What was the tool kit sitting next to the Sumo's on your tailgate? When I need to work under the RV I use a 20-ton air jack and 6-ton jack stands...no sweat. This winter I'm doing disk brakes and sumo springs on my 2970RL, so looking forward to the next video for the road test.

[@Martin_from_SC]

Looks like a bracket for your brake lines is not attached to anything.

[@guerro327]

Yeah, I saw that, too.

[@RobWisemanDeezFit]

Drivers side rear looked crooked when you dropped it down, leaning outboard from the appearance.

[@richardwarner963]

Just curious, why don't you use the Andersen stabilizer blocks if you're so worried about overstroking those legs?

[@berky59]

Why would you retract the front ? You could just go to hitch height and that would raise all but the front.

[@paulshannon4576]

BTW would an oil filter strap type wrench help tighten the springs up after installation?

[@williambrown6151]

Hi JD, I have a question not about this video. Are you running the centramatic wheel balancers? I have been wanting them ever since you put them on your truck and finally got them for my motorhome. Holding them and turning them I can hear the balls moving and they are pretty load. I remember you mentioning that in your video. So, do you still have them on?

[@BigTruckBigRV]

I still use them and love them

[@wakeupamerica2024]

Of course Lippert uses 1/8" thinner metal. They cheapen everything they touch. Replaced 1 Lippert slide motor and it sounds whinier than the Schwintek on all the other slides. They also own the parent company that makes the B&W goosebox which is made in Mexico. Lippert is ruining the RV industry the same way Thor did in the early 2000s.

[@stevem7189]

Would have liked to see a before and after road vibration test to see what difference that made.

[@fredhinck9685]

Is there anything on your trailer that doesn't need attention??????

[@robertnasser9937]

$450.00, really love your vids but damn\

[@mikeboutet9552]

That up grade might be all good, but while watching it and noticed the steel brake lines moving against the axle when you bumped them and the fact that the tee fitting goes up to steel mounted to underbelly and no flex lines is a disaster waiting to happen. The steel brake lines will fail.

[@johnathantucker4191]

Saw that... Can't be how they plumbed that... Maybe it's just how it looks on camera?

[@JohnDiMartino]

That trailer would never pass inspection, disgusting how shoddy that work is

[@richardaitkenhead]

Yeah that is not a quality product, it shocks me how bad things are in America, there is no way that would be allowed In the UK.

[@richardaitkenhead]

I have watched 100s of hours of 5th wheel video in preparation for a tour of American I want to do and stuff like this worries me, Especially the momentum products. I'm down to a luxe 44fl, a vanliegh beacon rdb or a riverstone 39rkfb there is at least one of each available I like its finding a tow vehicle I like torn between a f450 or hgv with space for a toad car on the back. I still have over a year to prepare but its getting daunting.

[@JohnDiMartino]

11:00 not sure who installed those hydraulic brakes but you may want to take it to a professional. You never ever install brake tubing on the front side of the axle , tubing always goes on top or at the back side of the axle for safety reasons it you got something in the road , it can easily crush or break the line if it gets caught between the axle tube and brake line. The other huge issue is there is no rubber hose on the front line! No hose clamp or even a zip tie securing the Tee block to the axle . I would fail that trailer during the annual state inspection, not sure if you have an inspection procedure or requirement there but it fails a NYS trailer inspection . Nice job on the sumo springs !

[@geoffmolyneux9173]

Your brake line from your frame to your axle needs to be rubber, and Tee on axle needs to be tapped hole into axle, and secured with a bolt. Also brake line running across axle needs to be secured

[@supporterofsanity]

From a layman’s point of view it seems this product would drastically limit available suspension travel. Taking away the springs ability to absorb bumps. Seems like adding shocks would be much more preferable.

[@SuperSpringsInternational]

SumoSprings are shocks. -Adam

[@Mar--]

@@SuperSpringsInternational they are not shocks. They are bump stops

[@colortaco3298]

@@Mar-- bump stops don’t compress like that lol maybe they compress “technically” but cmon lol

[@Mar--]

@@colortaco3298 go ahead and buy a pair for your truck. I guarantee you'll take them off in one months time. They do not act anything like a shock and make your suspension very stiff thats why I went with air bags instead

[@vincentknight5358]

Proper tools make you feel secure. In your case. As represented in the video you where at no danger to your self. Of getting crushed. Maybe getting scared sure. Hurt no.

[@starv49]

you need a flex hose on that rear brake line and more zip ties on the cross line on the axles

[@DAKOTANSHELBY]

The automatic leveling system on my Keystone Outback 328RL left me in a precarious situation on two accounts. The BAL LS 7.3 leveling system allowed it's functioning to lower the rear two height adjusters on less than level ground. Only when the system was at near full extension on one side did it set a error code about unlevel surfaces and the need to correct the level of the ground. By eyesight it didn't appear that far off, thinking the leveling system will correct for it. At the time the error set, I could not in anyway override it. Believe me I tried all features on the BAL LS 7.3 to do so. I had already disconnected my truck and could not reconnect the truck if I wanted to because I allowed a buddy to place his 5th wheel in the location forward of my RV. But that was not the problem. The error code would not allow me to raise the height adjusters and give me an opportunity to somehow get the RV level. I was stuck! I tried using a screw type jack under one axle end that had the lowest surface area. Because I had to lift the RV with the axle I could not get the hand jack to overcome the weight. Plus, lying under the RV working a screw jack Io it's limits was not a good thing and dangerous. Fortunately my buddy had a massive hydraulic telescoping pump jack in his arsenal. It did the trick, having raised the wheel/tire assembly off the ground high enough to place additional 2x6s under the tire. This allowed the automatic leveling system to sense a more suitable level limit within it's obvious narrow preprogrammed range and allowed for the retraction of the rear height adjusters where I could then reposition the RV and start over again. I never imagined a case where the system would allow you to NOT be able to retract the levelers UNTIL you corrected for level! Amazing! Not fun being under such weight trying to get out of a jamb when your leveling system helped put you there!

[@stricklyq5613]

I don't understand everyone freaking out about jack stands or safety. The tires aren't off. Nothing is going to happen

[@wtpauley]

Is there a video of these in action as you are traveling down the road? If not, might be cool to make one even if it's just using a bump in the parking lot.

[@SuperSpringsInternational]

We've got a video on our page that shows them in action if you're interested. -Adam

[@garyhogan7881]

I really would like a video after some towing time to see what improvement you observe. Thanks.

[@ceimo856]

On another site, after install, they put a camera on the Dinning room table monitoring a cup of water on the table. He drove down the highway pulled off on a rough side of the road. The cup was still in place and no water spilled. That’s a huge improvement. His was a 40’ 5th wheel. Sold on these!!

[@leonardharview4577]

I'm hearing that the Lippert frames that have been manufactured thinner due to weight reduction demands by some RV manufacturers. I'm wondering if these Sumo springs may eventually result in overstressing frame areas such as cross members resulting in cracked welds and frame stress fractures?

[@CharlesinGA]

I agree, that brake line installation is "jack leg" from the get go. Not properly attached, no flex hose. Sheesh! does anyone not have any pride in workmanship any more? The tee blocks should be mounted to the axle housing with a Tee bolt of some sort and a couple of metal clamps. The brake lines should have segments of polyethylene tubing over them with band clamps tight on the axle. Those wire ties will, combined with road grit and vibration, eat right thru those brake lines if they don't crack first.

[@mculli80]

Those should definitely smooth out the ride. Just an FYI though, don't use lock tight with nylon lock nuts. The lock tight will eat away the nylon.

[@MECHANICALMASON]

I enjoy your videos. Very informative! Please get those brake lines fixed ASAP! It’s a disaster waiting to happen! I wouldn’t haul it very far at all without getting those fixed.

[@robertburns5145]

I just watched this video again after seeing a much earlier video where you installed shock absorbers to your previous fifth wheel. I’m curious as to why you didn’t install shocks on this fifth wheel.

[@trumpwon8231]

They pay me nothing. We install these on everything we own. Just outstanding. USMC/USAF Ret.

[@kevinc5801]

Thanks for your service, Trump won

[@richardmain8059]

Good job figuring the installation out, i guess the installation advice is: “if first you don’t succeed try, contact the manufacturer and then try again”. Move one to the Successful Category from the Fail Category. 😊👍👍👍

[@garyslavonic5115]

Great video as always JD. Interesting comment about the independent suspension, makes sense, I just never thought about the different torque put on a frame not designed for independent suspension. With all of the videos that you put out, I hope you do find the time to actually enjoy the 5th wheel and get a chance to get out and use it.

[@caseypries7559]

I'd sure like the engineers to elaborate on the difference between your LCI frame and mine. I'm curious as to what would make mine strong enough for torflex and yours not. Also these things look like they sure limit suspension travel and might end up acting like a bump stop. Hopefully you'll update us on their performance.

[@Gonzo614]

I have no issues climbing under raised/jacked up vehicles. I used to work as a diesel mechanic apprentice. I've climbed under all sorts of big rigs for one reason or another. As long as you are using the proper equipment there shouldn't be an issue.

[@brianharper344]

If you had to remove the tires or were wedged in there shoulder to shoulder on your side it'd be different. If it dont feel right, don't get tight.

[@greglivermore8684]

I would recommend supporting trailer with your stands. Gravity always wins during a jack failure.

[@brianharper344]

I noticed the clips on the leaf spring packs have moved one for and one considerably aft. Looks like the indentation to hold it in the hole in the leaf spring may have worn considerably.

[@pamlove421]

I came across some info today that these springs would help with porpoising while towing. They talked about putting them on the tow vehicle. What's the difference in installing them on the tow vehicle versus the RV? Thanks! 👍

[@KeithStarr]

I put a pair of these on my 2021 Power Wagon. It’s great because there is a 1” gap when unloaded so the ride stays stock, but when I drop the travel trailer on they compress and help SO much with overall towing control. I was shocked.

[@joshgarner805]

I just put all new leaf springs, equalizer, and shackles on my 22ft trailer. It only weighs about 5500lbs loaded but I was nervous as hell working under it. I have 8 jack stands plus the tounge jack and still didn't like it. It just made me nervous because there was no axles under it. If it would have fallen it would have went all the way to the ground. Nevertheless I got it done safely and everything is up to date now.

[@vintageresto6578]

Love Your videos. However it’s time to get a head or chest mounted camera. Painful to consistently watch you fumble with your one hand..Just a suggestion for the viewer. 👍👍

[@Humble-Engine]

Would you recommend an equalizer upgrade or just installing the summo springs instead? I only can afford one for now. Thanks for the help.

[@dalemarshall9736]

Surprised they didn't anchor the hydraulic line splitter to the axle with a zip tie or something.

[@jackieedwards5271]

Jake, Is there a difference in using the Sumo spring compared to Timbren suspension ?

[@SuperSpringsInternational]

SumoSprings are made from microcellular polyurethane, which have superior damping and vibration reduction. Timbren is made from rubber - which is stiffer and does not have the same damping benefits. -Adam

[@Masterchief68]

Enjoyed the video, saw the first where you couldn’t get them on and this video was great that you were able to figure it out and get them on. Great job!

[@barrylenoble6705]

So I had to put new springs on my fifth wheel 8000 K rated on the drivers side of the RV I only have an inch and a half a clearance between the wheel and the body and it hits because of the bad roads my passenger side of a fifth wheel. I have 3 inches of clearance and I don’t have an issue with that side. On my drivers side I have three slide outs entertainment slide kitchen slide master bedroom slide a lot of extra weight. How do I gain a couple extra inches?

[@stevehackl7426]

With the van Leigh you can use the pad inside the compartment to retract rear levelers only

[@scottbuss3449]

just did wet bolt kit/bronze bushings and sumo's on my rig today... it still slays me that they put plastic crap in the spring eyes for bushings

[@davecamilleri9411]

I understand how some people would think these rubber springs are a great idea, but personally I think it is a disaster waiting to happen. The area of the frame that is taking the load from the rubber spring isn't engineered to take that load. After repeated loading of the area of the bottom flange of the I beam, I would expect frame damage of some sort. I would never use these without reinforcing the frame above the rubber spring. For the ride smoothing action, shocks would be a better investment and wouldn't compromise the frame.

[@Brian-bi7qe]

I love your videos. I have a couple questions from this video. Would these be a good idea on a bumper hitch trailer 26ft? . I know that this may be a stupid question to some of the more veteran RV owners on this channel. But I noticed that this trailer has hydraulic disc breaks? How does that work on a 5 th wheel trailer? I thought this trailer had electric trailer breaks? .

[@vista39]

JD. You did a video a year or so ago that you were in an RV park in San Antonio I believe to meet up with your daughter and you were doing a lot of bike riding around there and it looks really awesome. I don’t know how to find that, but I’m looking for the name of the RV park if that’s possible that you could reply to this that would be great.

[@skylane1969]

Good video. The brake lines zip tied to the axle is a interesting mounting technique without the splitter not mounted and looks like the axle leaf spring clamps have migrated out of place.

[@Oldtech51]

I see RV manufacturers are recommending these springs be removed. They are a contributing factor in frame breakage.

[@brentshock3787]

You’ve had shocks, it’ll be interesting to see your road review. Road Master Comfort ride shocks or these, would love some of the viewers feedback.

[@ricbailey170]

At $225 a set they better be awesome as I’d need 3 sets for my THer. I’ll wait for your on the road tests given that investment. 🤔😉

[@joshgarner805]

I was just about to look into these until I saw your comment. How the hell can these cost that much? It's a piece of rubber mounted to a couple pieces of bent sheet metal. It would cost me $500 to do my tandem axle trailer. They better preform excellent for that money.

[@SuperSpringsInternational]

Our product is priced there as the material is not rubber, but a foam micro-cellular polyurethane. Additionally, we make everything in the USA, and offer a lifetime warranty. We know that means it will cost more, but we are passionate about those things and think they're important. -Adam

[@Gunfighter25.5]

I have sumo springs on my truck and like them. Instead of the pads I think I would have used 6 x6 blocks so the legs didn't have to be extended so far.

[@hackertexas6171]

I really appreciate your improvement videos and I am impressed with how we think alike. We must be kin. ;)

[@1234ahhh1]

You have a follow up video on your experience with these sumosprings?

[@brown1william]

Adding these helps with what exactly? When traveling? I have a 40' toy hauler and just curious how this would help.

[@kylepokorski6045]

Just cushioning and little less side to side roll

[@tarains]

@BigTruckBigRV wondering if you would still use these after your visit to the Lippert Factory. We have been told this was an automatic denial of frame/chassis warranty if installed.

[@BigTruckBigRV]

I do. Only failures I've seen have happened after extreme maneuvering

[@iglapsu88]

Great install JD! Hate going under travel trailer, but will if I have to with floor jack.

[@roybrochu5409]

JD have you ever heard of a recommendation to rotate the tires on your trailer?

[@Tom-In-Ga]

I had installed Sumo springs on my class A Tiffin Allegro motor home. The difference in side to side sway was amazing and the ride was much better overall. I have a fifth wheel now and was thinking about adding this but was not sure how they preformed on a trailer since no one is riding inside. Can't wait to see the test drive to help make my mind up. BTW: On the last video I guess you didn't hear me screaming to lift her up higher and take out those bolts and install them after you get the springs mounted. My wife heard me and I think the neighbors did too. I guess Georgia is a little to far from Texas for you to hear. 🤣

[@SuperSpringsInternational]

Thank you for the support! -Adam

[@jrt0127]

Which gives you a better ride the sumo springs or shock absorbers

[@rogergraves242]

That’s Less As expensive than Road Master setup.

[@CraigDovidio]

Question: if you lift your suspension (in some way) it does lift the roof hight aswell, correct? (I ofcourse assume as much - but it doesn't seem like anyone mentions it). So, your 13.5 is now a 13.9?

[@ljupco825]

I’m a green horn at this looking to start with f250 6.7 xlt what’s the biggest camper we can pull with it I was thinking in like 9000lbs fully loaded maybe 10,000 can I do that about 30 to 32 ft length. Down the road maybe even sooner we r thinking adding a 5 th wheel hitch on it Ty for all the info very helpful

[@kevinsmith1406]

JD, what's your thoughts on the RoadMaster Slipper Spring Suspension kit? Obviously adding just the shocks to my trailer would be beneficial. Currently i have the Dexter Equalizer on my trailer and we're looking to start taking longer trips so looking at the cost of new shocks and a better equalizer, i may as well spend another $400 and get the whole suspension. do you have experience with this system yet?

[@bretthiler2401]

Great info due to the algorithms I had just ordered a set yesterday this video came up so I watched I have same axles and brakes keystone montana, so you saved me a bunch of time know what I need before they arrive is there a part number for different bolt kit or I can just pick up some 4 inch carriage bolts thanks again safe travels.

[@gijoecam]

I'm not clear on why this is necessary. It doesn't add damping to the suspension. That's what shock absorbers do. These add spring rate, that's all, and they do so in a spot on the frame that isn't designed to bear loads. Can it? Probably. But did Sumo do the engineering on your frame to know that adding the load at that location is safe and won't compromise the structure? Doubtful. Stiffening the springs will still transfer the loads to the trailer. The forces involved will likely be higher for any given suspension displacement since now the spring rate is effectively higher. These appear to be a solution in need of a problem, in my opinion.

[@SuperSpringsInternational]

These have been tested at Navistar specifically measuring g-force and vibration reduction. Our product is made from a micro-cellular polyurethane and provides high value of damping and shock absorption. We've been doing this for 25 years, and our founder is an award winning engineer. So, short answer, yes we've tested and engineered these to do what we state. -Adam

[@gijoecam]

@@SuperSpringsInternational Big buzzwords like 'micro-cellular polyurethane' sounds like fancy spongey material. Damping and shock absorbtion? That's what springs do too. They were tested at Navistar, so that somehow makes them suitable for all vehicles? Have the other vehicles they're made for been tested to be able to withstand the loads they place on their frames in places that were never engineered to take those loads?

[@ifish5409]

Can’t wait to see it in action. I wish there was a way to measure the vibration or force on the inside of the trailer before and after.

[@SuperSpringsInternational]

We did this at Navistar Proving Grounds. Showed average of 68% reduction of g-force / vibration in the trailer. -Adam

[@javiertorrez4771]

What makes you decide to do your add on projects to your RV? Another question, you do a lot of truck reviews, but i don't think I've seen a review on. Freightliner M2 106 truck. I would love to see you do a review on this truck!!

[@richardwarner963]

Just an add on....if you have wider "shock ready" top plates, the SumoSprings still won't fit even with longer bolts. Just confirmed this with SuperSprings, the only fix they offered was to replace the top plates.

[@douglastong3208]

The install looks very easy...once you figure out how to safely get the suspension off the ground enough! If I could fit under the fifth wheel at travel height, I wouldn't worry about the coach coming down on me; otherwise, I would maybe want jackstands for backup, even though I have seen an entire side of a 22,000 lb fifth wheel lifted a good three inches off the ground by the hydraulic leveling system (and it held as we walked through the inside).

[@mariewhite7893]

I don't like being under anything that's raised up. Please let everyone know which one you like better. The sumo or the comfort ride shocks. Also does it reduce the wiggling inside when you walk around? Thanks for another great video.

[@danharris5873]

Just replaced/upgraded the axles on my toyhauler. A lot of cribbing underneath after you raised the 5th wheel off the ground and also Jack stands! Wish I would have seen these and I would have installed them during the axle installs. Can't wait for you to road test them.

[@ceimo856]

Good to know. Our Jayco 5th. Came with the Dexter axles. Thanks for sharing👍

[@victornicholson9859]

Good video and I did not have any issues with using the jacks and crawling under the trailer. One item, the directions do require torquing the carriage bolt to 10 ft lbs.

[@christophermcmichael880]

Not only the break line issue. As I had seen you cover on your.latest video but i had noticed thst the leaf spring bands that hold the upper leafs in line are also slipping around as well.

[@gcflower99]

What about using a ramp like Camco Trailer Aid Plus to roll on, lifting one axle at a time and letting the other "droop" enough for the install?

[@nisiunavoce1264]

Kinda sorta suggested the same thing the first time. Looks like the original bolts would have worked as well. Glad it worked out. The safety factor is as long as the tires are enough to protect you then you should be fine. If the tires are not tall enough always use axle stands.

[@rafaelmas1238]

Do you plan on installing shocks as well? Also curious to know why you chose to install sumo springs before shocks? Keep up the good work with the videos - they've helped me a ton!

[@richarddorion3806]

I used the jacks I have intended to change a tire, they are designed to be a jack and a jack stand. I also used regular jack stands as added safety. That worked great and I felt safe while under my RV.

[@garyharms8466]

The ground effect system has no problem lifting the tires off the ground. Put blocks under the rear jacks to shorten the stroke on the jacks.

[@stevedenoyer5956]

I would still put a jack under the frame to be safe.

[@stevedenoyer5956]

Jack stand

[@AyMikey559]

Can you do an update video of these?

[@dougswaggard6667]

How do these compare to the shocks you had installed on your older rig? Certainly a simpler installation.