These Are The WORST Sonic Arguments...

[@kiernanhowell-mackinley1733]

My sister's theory about why Robotnik was able to make Metal Sonic, only to backpedal to Mecha Sonics mk.I and II was simply that Metal was, in her words, a "lightning in a bottle" situation.

[@MarlinX7]

What meaning it was a fluke he made him?

[@ATHBizarre]

@@MarlinX7the opposite, actually. It was something he could never really “replicate”

[@MarlinX7]

@@ATHBizarre that’s not the opposite that’s another way of sayin what I said

[@ATHBizarre]

Woops. Thought you were saying Metal was a fluke. 😂 my bad.

[@MarlinX7]

@@ATHBizarre that’s what I said lemme break it down for you since you wanna try be sarcastic but if I create something and I can’t do it again that means I don’t understand fully what I did in order to create another so in other words it’s a fluke that I made it in the first place

[@katerina13aar]

Here's the thing about 06: The English-speaking Sonic community has kept denying its canonicity for years while the Japanese community has always known it was canon. This is largely due to translation errors within the game itself (most infamous example is the "blue hedgehog" comment Blaze makes; it's a word play in Japanese because the word "aoi", VERY COMMONLY written as あい, which means "blue", is written as 青い in the subtitles which, while still retaining it's "blue" meaning, ALSO means "unripe" or "inexperienced", easily applicable or translated to someone being "naive". The Iblis Trigger is then either a naive hedgehog or a blue hedgehog, aka, it's either Silver or Sonic, and that's why Blaze worries. In Japanese, she also continuously uses "青い" to describe Silver which is translated as "naive" in English.) Here's a quick rundown: - 06 takes place BEFORE the Rush games. - Blaze is originally from the future. - Blaze seals herself IN ANOTHER DIMENSION at the end of 06. - Erasing Solaris, while Blaze is in this different dimension WITH Iblis inside her, CREATES the Sol Dimension and the Sol Emeralds. - Blaze is now from another dimension where she is a princess and a guardian of these Sol Emeralds. Makes sense? If you don't believe me, either a) watch the cutscene where Blaze sacrifices herself: She briefly becomes Burning Blaze before she becomes golden and transparent. Or b) look up "clearing up the confusion in the fanbase regarding Sonic 06" for a longer and more elaborate explanation/theory. It's a tumblr post that's from a deactivated user, lots of reblogs though, the first link in the search should be a reblog of the post on SpiritSonic's (aka Evan Stanley's) tumblr. It's a good explanation (and theory if you want to latch on that). I HIGHLY RECOMMEND READING THIS POST!! I'm not sending the link because KZbin has something against me and putting links into comments; it keeps deleting my comments. Whatever. At the end of the day, Sonic 06 is canon and has always been canon. You can even see the influences it has on the games following it (Rush, Rivals, Riders, Secret Rings) and my guess is that Sonic Team at the time wanted to connect all of these games to the events of Sonic 06 and it would all come together later with later instalments... eeexcept SEGA changed wheels by 2008 and forward and scrapped those plans, so we are left with this mess. Many of these stories before Unleashed were written by Shiro Maekawa, and considering he literally made a tweet in 2015 (EDIT: it was 2018, my bad) or something about Iblis being inside of Blaze and Blaze having "tamed" Iblis' flames inside her AFTER the Rush games... yeah, no, this guy had plans before SEGA changed stuff up and Shiro-san left the company. Which one happened first I can't remember. Hope this was helpful! 😃

[@p0p525]

Thank you very much! Now I can relax, understanding the sonic lore.

[@katerina13aar]

@@p0p525 I don't know if you're sarcastic but, you're welcome?

[@p0p525]

@@katerina13aar Oh, oops, im actually serious.

[@macintosh798]

The more you know! Appreciate the clarification!

[@espurrseyes42]

That sounds like you're reaching. Mephiles literally shows an image of Sonic, the BLUE hedgehog. Even if the line was meant to be wordplay, it's still very clearly referring to Sonic, and still doesn't erase the issue of Blaze SPECIFICALLY commenting about the hedgehog in question as if she knows him, only for them to never interact throughout the rest of the game. Here's the problem with that timeline theory: Solaris is LITERALLY the strongest being in the series, existing at all points in time simultaneously and capable of destroying all of time itself. So YOU are expecting me to believe that the death of such a being in the past, which altered the timeline from that point on, WOULDN'T also reach Blaze and wherever she is. Her being in another dimension out of reach of the timeline change doesn't make any sense. Solaris doesn't exist, which means Iblis doesn't exist, which makes it impossible for Silver's Bad Future and arc to happen, which makes it impossible for Blaze to seal up Iblis inside her. Nevermind that, for this theory to work, she'd have to know who Sonic is when she shows up in Rush, and he'd ALSO have to know who she is at least in appearance (since he remembers the events of 06 has hinted by him going to see Elise after the reset), which he clearly doesn't since most of his arc is not knowing who she is and looking for her.

[@A_Person_64]

My dumb Sonic argument is that the 06/Riders (ZG) models were peak and should've been kept. Truly felt like the characters were slowly growing up from A1 -> A2 -> Heroes/Shadow -> 06/Riders (ZG). Jet looks very weird without his Riders proportions.

[@SAMURAIPACK456]

I 100% agree, we hav had the same modern sonic model sinse 2005, the riders and 06 models need to come back, couse at the end of the day, that was the best sonic and his friends ever looked

[@The_Prizessin_der_Verurteilung]

06 Shadow is so darn cool and we don't tolerate 06 Shadow model slander in this house.

[@SAMURAIPACK456]

@@The_Prizessin_der_Verurteilung fr 06 was the only "bad sonic game" ( According to the fans) with actuall good model design, It's criminal that sega had no interest on bringing it back.

[@p0p525]

so true for both

[@espurrseyes42]

No.

[@MrNeedleM0use]

Nah Lag did not deserve that Matt 😭. But fr, I do not understand these arguments like they are fictional characters no need to hate or send threats to people over it. Come on now

[@firestriker3580]

Nope

[@Stickboy321Go]

Fr tho

[@betatoadstool]

“The short quills killed my grandma okay?!” - some angry fan

[@selmabm3409]

I completely agree with the shipping part and that its really not worth arguing over. Though I don't think Sonic needs a love interest, I wouldn't say he runs away from love in general (at least the love that isn't romantic.

[@sezunemizuhana3870]

In the games its pretty obvious sonic isnt interested in romance, however in satam and archie he totally is which is ok, because thats a different continuity/universe. What im saying is that shipping is stupid in general.

[@sararatliff7707]

Well, to be fair, the only "love" that he has ever run away from is Amy. There isn't a single other regular female character that's actively pursuing him. We haven't seen how he would react if one of the other ladies did make a pass at him or if there were a lady brought in specifically to be a love interest. Either way, I agree that a romantic partner isn't needed. Could be cute if done well, but not required. I mean, the guy's only 15. He's a baby in the grand scheme of life. And he's got enough on his plate with trying to save the world every six months.

[@assassin8636]

​@sezunemizuhana3870 shipping isn't stupid ok? God everyone always bitching

[@dennisbeaman958]

​@@sararatliff7707 To be fair Amy was 8 years old trying to have his kids while he's 15 years old that's how far they are in age when they first meet she's as old as tails

[@sararatliff7707]

@@dennisbeaman958 Indeed. Another thing that bothers me about that pairing. Freaky.

[@othmancabouni-ot1gg]

15:58 basically at the end of sonic 06 sonic and Elise go back in time and blow up the flames of disaster wich reset the timeline ,meaning that the last cutscene is the only part of the story that is Canon

[@Dansam04]

I think that’s the misconception. 06 is canon, but the events were retconned from the timeline. With Generations, my headcannon (as of five minutes ago) is that Time Eater was so powerful that it was able to pry some remnants from the retconned events which happens to include Crisis City.

[@MohamedIbrahim-xm1tj]

​@@Dansam04 that would actually kinda work if we include the "Time Eater is mephiles" headcanon as explanation

[@YplanAnimator]

@@Dansam04I think that kinda fixes the issue where Sonic and Silver fought in Crisis City even though it didn't happen before, my headcanon is that since the events were supposed to be retconned, Time Eater couldn't get the events properly so the Silver fight was corrupted to be in Crisis City

[@germex1837]

​@@YplanAnimatori believe it was stated that time eater, while weaker than Solaris, was powerful enough to restore erased timelines as he is a time-being. Also the silver we face in generations is the same one from Rivals-current, we only face him because he wasn't certain we were real or not (because both eggmen flinging his friends through time).

[@germex1837]

The other explanation for crisis city could be that Crisis City still exists in Silver's future even after Sonic 06

[@bluechairr]

you have balls putting that in the thumbnail I respect you

[@markofthewolvessucks8930]

sonamy is overrated and not a good ship (excluding boom)

[@DarkTails256]

​@@markofthewolvessucks8930are people not allowed to like it?

[@win18512]

@@DarkTails256 yes

[@rinsehoopz4fun297]

@@DarkTails256 Maybe it depends, because some could be appropriate specifically for children and any other age, but others are not for kids and can include stuff that is sexual and also... How do I say this?

[@rinsehoopz4fun297]

The people who make the videos, purposely PREY on children.

[@miniluv7330]

13:50 Regarding this last point about Crisis City, I think its inclusion in Generations can be explained like this: In 2006, Eggman’s plan was to obtain the secret of the Flames of Disaster from Elise. In Generations, his plan was to undo his previous defeats. From this we can deduce that he changed time there so that he won, then the flames ravaged the world and boom, Crisis City. This explanation can also kinda be applied to Stardust Speedway Bad Future being in Gens too. Hope this makes sense!

[@squee-g1658]

The 06 timeline is like a file in “recently deleted”. It’s gone from the main timeline but can be accessed/recovered at anytime. Atleast that’s how I see it

[@antyep]

I’m not sure but I think Izuka said that Generations is not canon. I dunno I heard it from somewhere and I need to find the source.

[@joeker5208]

Whoa whoa. 1. Shadow working for G.U.N. is completely fine. The entire point of his character in his own game is that he does not give a damn about his past, and is moving forward. And if you want to count it, then Shadow The Hedgehog’s expert mode has him working for G.U.N. 2. Time travel conundrums cause things like Shadow sealing away Mephiles. I really don’t see this issue, as the same logic has Silver helping out the world hundreds of years before his own creation. 3. There’s nothing from Sega or Sonic Team that points towards 06 being a reboot or a non-canon adventure. In fact, all the official promotional material has references to previous games like the official 06 guides. Now yes, there are retcons, but how is that different than almost any other Sonic thing. Like SA1, Shadow, Rivals, Battle, Unleashed, Forces, IDW, or Prime.

[@SAMURAIPACK456]

Bro is yapping

[@joeker5208]

@@SAMURAIPACK456 what can I say. I’m an opinionated person

[@SAMURAIPACK456]

@@joeker5208 i dont think opinionated is a word bro??

[@joeker5208]

@@SAMURAIPACK456 well this is a video on someone’s opinions on Sonic topics. So why not play along

[@SAMURAIPACK456]

@@joeker5208 i agree with matt he was spittin facts

[@nithinshakthithiruppathi4028]

When u realize Sonic said he wanted to be under an umbrella with Amy in Sonic Frontiers…

[@TIME-DEV]

Sadly, the line technically goes unused, as does the "I should've made my mind up sooner, Amy" Line, which makes me think the Writer, Ian Flynn wrote that line in the script, but sega told him to remove it. F*ck sega basically.

[@nithinshakthithiruppathi4028]

@@TIME-DEV He says it in the game but it is very rare.

[@markofthewolvessucks8930]

🤓@@TIME-DEV

[@essycogany2738]

⁠@@nithinshakthithiruppathi4028 Yeah, I know plenty of people who was able to trigger the lines. Not to mention the Tangle line showed how IDW is canon as well. So, the “Amy, I should’ve made up my mind sooner,” and “Wish we were sharing an umbrella Amy,” lines are canon too. Also, in Sonic superstars there’s a little drawing in one of the zones on a wall showing Sonic and Amy under an umbrella.

[@nithinshakthithiruppathi4028]

@@essycogany2738 I know, it is kinda cute (the drawing) ngl.

[@princessprophetgiothebutle1243]

My stance on romance in Sonic is that I would like for them to explore romance in the Sonic series, but that romance shouldn't be tied to Sonic. Unlike a lot of the other characters in the Sonic series, whether it be canon, comics, cartoons, or other media, Sonic is just not a character who I can see working in a romance just by his nature. Characters like Rouge and Knuckles or Tails and Cosmo in Sonic X really made me interested in the idea of romance in Sonic and I believe it can work, just not with the blue blur himself.

[@sb14andmore50]

People are still shipping Tails and Cosmo(aka Tailsmo)even though she died, it makes no sense, and it's also overrated, you have no idea how many times I tey to search up images/videos of Taiream, but then it gets overruled by Tailsmo, then there's also people that ship Chaream which makes absolutely no sense considering they've barely interacted(I guess you can the same for Tails as well, but they seem more close than Charmy is with Cream)soery if I was rambling too much, but what I was really trying to get at is there's barely any other ships for Tails that isn't Tailsmo

[@toasttitan3253]

They’ve actually been leaning more into Knuckles x Rouge recently so you may get your wish

[@princessprophetgiothebutle1243]

@@toasttitan3253 Yeah, I've noticed it in Sonic Dream Teams. I am very happy they're slowly starting to bring some of these dynamics back.

[@princessprophetgiothebutle1243]

@@sb14andmore50 That's fair. I think the real reason people ship Cream and Tails is simply because they're a match for each other similar to how Sonic and Amy are technically a match for each other. Personally, I really have nothing against it, also I do not get it as well since they barely interact. As for Cosmo and Tails, I think it's just as simple as it's the only relationship they really explored that wasn't awful like Fiona in the Archie Comics. Still, I would be interested in more possibilities because this doesn't have to relate to romance. A lot of character dynamics could open up thanks to more interactions and I hope Dream Team can help push Sonic Team to explore relationships and dynamics a bit more.

[@espurrseyes42]

@@sb14andmore50 And you think Tails x Cream makes anymore sense than Charmy x Cream when their screentime together let alone interactions aren't any more common? Tails x Cosmo is so common because it was literally official (as far as being an anime made of a game franchise's license goes) and fleshed out well.

[@othmancabouni-ot1gg]

5:44 sonic 06 is more of a spiritual sequel ,kinda like sonic colors DS for the rush games 😊

[@LunarPops]

When I think of if Sonic 06 is canon or not, I imagine that it did happen, BUT the “reset” that happened in the end is also canon. Basically, the events of the game happen, but everyone forgets and things reset. So technically at one point, Sonic did run through Crisis City, but at the same time it never happened too? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@nightwish1453]

Colours ds does reference 06 mainly to bring back blaze and silver’s friendship in some way. One of the biggest problems of an ‘06 canon’ that very few mention is why the heck is blaze in the future, there is no explanation of this to the point you have to make head canons on why she is there and her being there can make or brake her philosophy of being an alternate it just makes her less special when taking 06 to account

[@LunarPops]

true@@nightwish1453

[@sonicdaily_0881]

For me, because in Sonic Generations the time eater was changing the timelines, Crisis city from Sonic 06 came back. Its what makes more sense to me

[@MSOGameShow]

"So, yes, Robotnik did progress backwards in terms of invention" Except he kinda didn't. Metal Sonic is meant to take on Sonic in terms of speed while Silver Sonic is meant to take him on combat-wise, hence the heavier bulkier appearance. Mecha Sonic could be seen as Eggman striking a balance between the two.

[@The_Prizessin_der_Verurteilung]

Maybe he's just resourceful with old inventions and designs. Remember, he made Omega after Gamma, then in Sonic Battle (after Omega) he made a ton of Gamma clones and not Omega clones. Even villains need to watch the budget.

[@igirjei3717]

So why did we proceed to never see mecha sonic again (minus a cameo in SA1)?

[@Hynotama]

“Like Sonic having green eyes, that one’s a classic” I do believe green eyes is Modern Sonic and black eyes are the classic.

[@somemadnessfan4763]

i'm so glad it's Sonic only when you discussed shipping cause my poor heart cannot take Silvaze slander

[@595no]

:^) You poor soul.

[@NintendoFan4104]

Silvaze makes no sense, as the Blaze Silver knew, died. It would be like if your best friend died and then you just replaced them with their doppelganger.

[@eliezersarcos7813]

Just from the title i knew this video was gonna be mad funny and i was right espcially when you called out the people that shipped tails and sonic

[@SAMURAIPACK456]

Fr i think sonadow should be Addressed as well, couse after the third season trailer of sonic prime, were shadow is holding sonic and Trying to save him, now they wont shut up abt that scene and prolly make fan comics of it

[@CottageDreams23]

Huh- there's people shipped sonic n tails??? 💀

[@SAMURAIPACK456]

@@CottageDreams23 uhh yes, they have been shipping characters and alot of the dont make any sense, have you been living under a rock or somethin??

[@hulyaterzi8560]

@@CottageDreams23 Bro they even ship Sonic with Cream💀

[@RandomSkull420]

​@@CottageDreams23 They even ship Sonic and Eggman, and no I'm not joking

[@MohamedIbrahim-xm1tj]

14:08 I mean both arguments can't really be considered evidence for Sonic 06 not being Canon because : For the 1st point it's more of a time loop rather than changing the future because Shadow sealing mephiles is what lead to 06's events in the first place , & this Shadow is different from the one that's locked up at the time , think of it like the time turners in Prisoner Of Azkaban & for the 2nd point Shadow works for GUN because he moved on from his past & forgave them at the end of Shadow 05

[@SnowPea-]

im still waiting for that guy with the tails profile picture

[@notdaytime35]

5:47 I think the shipping depand on the story, if they want to go that route fine, if they don't fine but don't force it in when it shouldn't. And for the weird ships, you can ship as much as you want but does not mean they it should be it the story or canon.

[@harryenchiladas8826]

Well, just to be funny, let's say that Sonic's eyes should have been yellow, maybe light brown, it would match the buckle on his shoes.

[@ArcherXYZ]

7:08 The callout to those shippers is fucking funny, love this moment LOL

[@SAMURAIPACK456]

Fr the ships that side of the fanbase makes is wierd as fuck and A lot of the time doesn't make any sense.

[@Neoniq41]

Shippers are the absolute worst part of ANY fandom. Look at MHA for example, it's a literal warzone that puts WW2 to shame.

[@SAMURAIPACK456]

@@Neoniq41 FR ive seen mha fanart, hell no, its the most Unnecessary thing to ever have in a fanbase, and they make it so wierd for no reason, It should lowkey be a Crime

[@DarkOverlord96]

@Superjetski456 A crime? For what, shipping fucking cartoons? Are you demented? At least shippers have enough common sense to know it's not fucking real but pinheads like you act like it's exactly like John K.'s crimes.

[@Stickboy321Go]

HEY HEY HEY, guys I understand shipping is weird but it’s not even bad in fact it’s what kinda makes an actual community and it’s not even bad Tbh it’s just r34.

[@1upGaming1up]

The Worst Sonic arguments IMO, are the shippings (mostly Sonamy vs. Sonally,) the Voice actors (Ryan Drummond vs. Jason Griffith vs. Roger Craig Smith vs. Devan Mack,) Classic Sonic vs. Modern Sonic and the whole Blue Arms vs. Tan Arms thing.

[@markofthewolvessucks8930]

Strange that this only happens for non japanese sonic fans.

[@1upGaming1up]

@@markofthewolvessucks8930 I mostly blame those who got into Sonic via Sonic Satam/the Archie comic and Sonic X who act like that.

[@jeriahrosen101]

My headcannon for how crisis city exists in Sonic Generations is that Sonic and friends don't remember Crisis City and just go with it anyway lol.

[@john_negs7720]

Sonic blaze and eggman remember 06

[@jeriahrosen101]

@john_negs7720 There's an argument to be made that they may have remembered all that, and that can also be why Sonic goes thru it in Sonic Generations. The levels may only represent what HE remembers in his past. He might just choose not to talk about it.

[@john_negs7720]

@@jeriahrosen101 the collection room is stated to hold all of sonics memories which include riders rivals secret rings black knight and 06 and game gear games so they’re definitely canon to the timeline

[@Mohamed58290]

6:57 that look 💀

[@OmegaDrive987]

10:48 I never thought someone would bring it up and 12:00 I will keep debating on this (Another argument for this is that even though it looks like Sonic 1 (especially Eggman's machines), you have to keep in mind that Eggman went through 3 bases, 2 of which were powered in the sky for long periods of time, 2 Sonic replicas, 2 Death Egg robots, and many badniks. He is using the last of his resources to cover little planet. Another argument is that Tails taught Sonic the spindash, so Sonic couldn't have learned it before)

[@samdavids7381]

i hate how people pretend the size of sonics quills is a minor thing. its literally the number one most iconic thing about his design other than being blue. literally his quills

[@JustMaxT]

Matt out here OBLITERATING Mr. Lag's reputation. May my boy rest in peace.

[@maravreloaded]

The Hyrule Historia was nothing more but a Skyward Sword bonus, promotional content. Because it was "omg the first game of the timeline".

[@RossPetersMusic]

Wow, asking Sonic fans to choose not to care in a video about dumb Sonic arguments was a bold move man. 😂

[@omo7002]

6:42 I think we now know where the people who feel this way have been. Thanks for the insider information pornhub!

[@somaricraftbros6283]

Say what?

[@omo7002]

@somaricraftbros6283 Pornhub released a list of the most searched video game characters in 2023, and Sonic was the highest ranking male at number 6. Furthermore, other than Mario at 8, there were no other males.

[@gavinamos9036]

My head canon can explain how both Sonic rush and 06 are canon. We don't know for sure how time travel and timelines work, so we make it up as we create these stories. In Sonic 06, Sonic and Elise go back in time to blow out the candle of the main villain (I can't remember his name to save my life), as a result, the entire timelime changes, which could result in anything being different. One of the changes between timelines is that Blaze is born in modern day rather than the future, and in an alternate dimension rather than Sonic's. It seems J's Reviews agrees with my head canon based on his timeline video, so it's not that "cold take-ish" of a head canon. If you don't like that explanation, another one could be that alternate dimensions in the Sonic Universe works like parallel universes in other works of fiction, where there can be a doppelganger in the other dimension that matches someone in Sonic's. The 2nd explanation brings up more problems and questions than the 1st, but either could work, it's all up to interpretation.

[@garbagesharkk]

NO ROMANCE ARO/ACE SONIC ICON FOREVER!!

[@maravreloaded]

13:29 I mean... Nintendo thrown up the whole timeline with Breath of the Wild, basically working as a soft-reboot of the franchise while keeping basic elements of it to still be recognisable.

[@ALegendaryBlueHedge]

The Mr Lag lore runs deep

[@chandelight59]

Wait. Elis and 06 did happen. But, no one knows. The final scene in 06 doesn't stop the game from not being cannon. If they're still celebrating the festival for the flames of disaster, after Ileas blows the flame of disaster out. That means the game did happen, and it did seem like at the end Sonic remembered, so that means it all happened, but no one remembered it happened, accept Sonic, so that would make it apart of the timeline of Sonic's adventures. You could say I've lived and learned to come up with this genius theory.

[@othmancabouni-ot1gg]

Also the reason why shadow is working with G.U.N is to save the world together after the ending of shadow 05, and if you played the hard mode you can hear dialogs from the president about the training with G.U.N i know that because i'm one of the poor souls that completed shadow 05 100%😅

[@chillihog1543]

Dumb argument I seen is Colors DS being Sonic Rush 3, character bio where I seen folks have a problem with Amy n Shadow's current info, and the worst one is where momentu- M-word is now a curse word to folks back when Frontiers wasn't out.

[@Parakarry077]

Ya I agree. I never understood the sonic shipping thing either

[@KookieStar]

I agree with the whole shipping argument being stupid, but let's be real for a second, Sonamy has tons of potential being canon, since Sega is doing the same exact thing as Nintendo with Mareach. The whole teasing, art, flirting and stuff is too much just to be a friendly manner. They're just (as I like to call it) semi-canon to some extent.

[@maravreloaded]

Like. Sonic has never shown any type of affection besides chivalry or friendship with Amy. But he was IN A RELATIONSHIP with Sally, and that was approved by Sega them-f(u)cking-selves. So there's no discussion.

[@SoranotRoxas]

*Yeah in Sonic Generations didn't Blaze say she didn't recognize the place?* I think the Time Eater or whatever was just borrowing from different timelines that existed at anypoint in time. Making her new origins in Sonic Rush, the real Canon event

[@john_negs7720]

Nah she said she did she even says crisis city

[@MasterEmerald94]

If you asked me about Sonic Adventure 3, I'd say that Sonic P-06 is Sonic Adventure 3.

[@JonnySpec]

I think Metal Sonic was created in Sonic CD's bad future by Eggman's future self, which might explain him being more advanced than Silver Sonic and Mecha Sonic.

[@evdestroy5304]

I think romance is fine. It's not really a big deal whether it is or isn't in the games.

[@RaiginAnimator]

Something you should know about shipping is that 20% is weird parings based on poorly disguised fetishes I looked into the sonic shipping community and ngl they are mostly pretty cool

[@CyberPea08]

Another thing about Sonic Heroes is that each story of the Adventure games had different stages design to fit the characters mechanics while Heroes for each story its the same stage that you go through on each team so theres one point

[@anaveragehedgehog]

I ship Sonally, however, I don't believe Sonic should be in a relationship in the games. Sonally is more of a side thing.

[@petesoys6348]

With the Mechas and Metal, I've always thought Eggman just tried building four different robo Sonic's, with Metal being his actual penultimate one. He thought that he could take out Sonic fast, but Sonic instead took down Metal, and since the doctor didn't have the robot at the moment, just used Silver Sonic and the two Mechas to just try and buy time, meaning Robotnik never went backwards, he has already gone forwards and was just trying to rebuild Metal at the moment until his return in Knuckles Chaotix or Sonic Drift. As for Sonic being shipped, yeah I agree. It's pretty weird, and I've always just viewed him as aroace, mostly cause it makes the most sense to me. Just a headcanon of mine. I know this fandom will never stop having dumb arguments, but maybe we could just tone down the dumbness or the apprehensiveness a bit more on some of these debates. I'll admit that I could also work on that a bit too. Also, part 2 soon?

[@maravreloaded]

4:24 If '06 was Adventure 3 it wouldn't suck.

[@reliving13]

You see, shipping ain’t bad bc 1. People have their own lil ship and it’s adorable. And 2. Sonic needs someone who will keep him from doing crazy things without holding him down. He needs someone who can keep up with his speedy life. And that could be anyone but Amy. I mean, Amy needs someone who will take care of her and will look out for her, like Shadow.

[@RIOTZss]

Hot take: Boost Meta is good and Sonic Unleashed had the best example of what it could be.

[@kairoprovidence9739]

Yea that’s not a hot take it’s an opinion man

[@john_negs7720]

This is not a hot take this is a factual take

[@knowingjordankid]

The Sonic Franchise had a lot of dumb arguments and a bunch of these dumb arguments still be happen in the Franchise. Sonic Heroes is a Game that some people like and some people hate. Sonic Heroes is for sure not a Sonic Adventure 3. I think that people really need to stop arguing over that Sonic CD takes after Sonic 1 or takes place after Sonic 2. Great video Matt)

[@markofthewolvessucks8930]

god 6:10 and 6:20 make me cringe so hard. thank god pontac and graff fixed amy but sadly "ruined" sonic. wierd how people complain about tails but not amy lol. people have complained about sonic's appearence since adventure 1 though. regarding sonic generations continuity sonic stories don't make that much sense tbh at least since adventure 1.

[@kenn_k]

0:11 lmao, that may be _the_ classic. i may have just barely been too young, but i honestly can't remember any other discourse on the same level of absurdity prior to that

[@YplanAnimator]

you forgot one, the argument that classic sonic is from another dimension even though that was a mistranslation and tailstube already said otherwise

[@Kelps.mp4]

Whether Sonic should or should not start dating, I think the general consensus is no. But whether Sonic likes or do not likes {insert Sonic character here}, then that's a WHOLE different story.

[@joeker5208]

SA1 is Sonic 4. Heroes, Shadow, and 06 are all Adventure-Styled games Why would I consider these to be direct sequels of each other? They’re the next evolution of the previous gameplay. SA1 is clearly the evolution of Classic Sonic. Just as Heroes is a modified SA2 Also. Has the “Quills Debate” just become the new “Green Eyes Debate”? Or is that the “Blue Arms Debate”? The Sonic fanbase sure has a lot to argue about. The debates have not really changed from 1991

[@themightyampharos6235]

My thought about the whole downgrading is that as seen in Sonic 4 Episode 2, we see Metal Sonic deactivated and destroyed on Little Planet, and with Sonic CD being before Sonic 2 and after Sonic 1, because Metal Sonic was most likely made on Little Planet and was left on Little Planet, Eggman didn't have the resource from Little Planet to make another Metal Sonic so he had to do with what he had back on West Island to build another Metal Sonic in the form of Mecha Sonic.

[@themightyampharos6235]

Another theory for the Crisis City one was that, Eggman discovered Time Eater, and as he says, he went through time and space, erasing his failures from time. If he went through time AND SPACE, he could of stopped Solaris from being erased in another time and space area place thing and thus, Mephiles wins, Iblis lives, and the future doesn't get saved. BUT! Sonic and Classic Sonic defeats Time Eater and restores all time and space, which means the timeline was fixed and Solaris was erased again upon fixing the timeline. So Crisis City was in Generations for a similar reason why Stardust Speedway was a bad future, it was all because Eggman went back and changed the timeline to where he wins and Sonic loses. EDIT: Blaze in 06 has to be the one from Rush going to the future, a future Blaze from a future Sol Dimension. As time theoretically moves differently between worlds, as shown in Sonic X which I am only gonna use as an example, Chris, after Sonic and friends left, gotten old and got a job, but, as soon as he goes to Sonic's world, he's like 6 months older from the day Sonic returned home. With that, Blaze's world might also travel through time slower than Sonic's world, so future Blaze was sent to Sonic's world, only to find it burning and in ruins, Sonic and friends dead and Silver defending off Iblis on his own.

[@NotlM]

Sonic 06 being canon is especially bizarre since the story ends with Sonic and Elise erasing the events of the story by putting out Solaris' flames. And if Solaris doesn't exist, then Iblis doesn't exist. And if Iblis doesn't exist, then the future with Crisis City can't happen. Even if we assume that this future can happen without Iblis (i.e. with a different fire monster or something), Generation's Crisis City features those Iblis monsters so yeah, that's messy. Also, Sonic 06 should've just been called Sonic Adventure 3, or literally anything else. SONIC THE HEDGEHOG (2006) is a stupid title lol

[@TheSultan1470]

Why?

[@seematahir5970]

Actually Sonic 06 is Sonic Adventure: CD. You got time travel, a love interest, and its the black sheep of its gameplay style.

[@595no]

More like Blue-Ray. :^)

[@A_Person_64]

So would that make Heroes/Shadow the Sonic 3K of the adventure series since Shadow's story is split between the two games.

[@unknwn6448]

My personal head canon on Crisis City’s existence is that the events of Sonic 06 were just a part of a separate timeline, kind of like how the DBZ movies all take place in different variations of the main timeline.

[@insanefreddyalt7897]

Honestly I feel like it's more of Robotnik experimenting with more power/battle based Sonic robots, instead of progressing backwards

[@MohamedIbrahim-xm1tj]

4:45 so with this logic Sonic 4 ep 1 & 2 are the actual Sonic 4

[@Matthasnocuts]

Unfortunately yes.

[@rocky-my5ck]

I respect you for the steal balls you have

[@JonyPlayz1]

Banger video like always. The most beautiful argument right now is if Sonic should be saying slangs like ''yall''. What an amazing debate lol

[@Natezilla_2]

It's such a non-issue too 😂

[@JonyPlayz1]

@@Natezilla_2 Exactly lmao

[@kaxcommentssomethingREAL]

god forbid Sonic uses whatever casual words he so chooses

[@BlayzingPhoenix]

​@@kaxcommentssomethingREAL God forbid sonic speak common English.

[@Miju001]

If there's any Sonic character that should use slang it's Sonic lmao

[@angrygecko1388]

Staying away from hard core shippers is advised for any fanbase

[@CottageDreams23]

When it comes to shipping, its not big of a deal, just stay away from them maybe block or mute them if it annoys u sm.. let other people enjoy things

[@Orange-blubbb]

I'm surprised he didn't bring up the debate arround sonic's shade of blue

[@Cargo_The_Hedgehog]

Brave move with this Tumbnail. Im happy theres still some people that are brave enough to talk about opinions and arguments!

[@brissmlb]

I love how I jumped to this video while downloading Sonic Heroes without thinking that the first argoument would be about this game. Kind of a pretty weird coincidence.

[@hyperkl1219]

13:48 basically generations retconned the timeline

[@CCCTACO]

one thing I want point out why shadow works for G.U.N is because he left that part of him behind in Shadow The Hedghog where He says good bye Shadow the hedghog and throws a picture with garled and maria. Also in JP verson (akak cannon version) it dose a much better job at explaing it

[@Joker3180Z]

7:47 I'm only A Sonamy Fan because Sally doesn't exist in The games of which are the main media I enjoy from Sonic but I agree Shipping wars are stupid and Sonic should stay in the zone of Running away from Love

[@CSTH1]

I have to be honest here, this is part of the reason I am becoming less interested in Sonic every day.

[@Natezilla_2]

Dang...

[@jskywalker58]

why?

[@LunarBiohazard321]

Pfft. People actually argue on which game is Adventure 3? We all know the TRUE Sonic Adventure 3 is Sonic The Hedgehog 4.

[@roiitzkovich4545]

I too have a hot argument. Before you throw at me comments like: "you're wrong and you should kill yourself", I want that you'll read my ENTIRE comment, and if you disagree than explain why IN A CIVIL MANNER. OK here goes: Mania's level design isn't that good. So much of it is just slopes where all you do is pressing down and letting Sonic roll. The other classic games have slopes, but not to such an extent. Mania does that so much that it gets really old. In a Sonic game, I love to go fast, but only when I understand the level and can go through it easily. Sonic is about speed, but he's also a platformer. Mania is so focused on speed that it takes away player involvement, which makes it less fun as a result. And then there are the gimmicks. These too are very focused on speed, but not enough about platforming. The radio launchers and popcorn machines in Studiopolis are automated (and the act 1 boss is a boring auto-scroller), the bouncy ropes in Press Garden lock you into a certain direction, the freezing gimmick has you sliding for a while with next to no interactivity, the boats in Hydrocity slow everything down, the guns in Mirage Saloon launch you forward and skip some of the level for you, Titanic Monarch is just an endless barrage of gimmicks that require minimal player input and I can keep going. None of these gimmicks feel like they enhance my enjoyment of the stages. If anything, I'd prefer the stages without them. As a result of these 2 major issues, Mania feels like 50% automation. It's hard for me to go back to this game because I'm always reminded by how much time you spend doing nothing. And I'm a guy who doesn't care if they reuse stages and layouts as long as it's fun. Mania reused 8 zones and sometimes copied layouts from past games, and yet this isn't my main issue with the game. It's exactly why I prefer Superstars. It's less automated, which makes it more replayable IMO.

[@aijahlonbolyn7843]

If Sonic did have a love interest, I would say that Blaze would be the best option because of how much storytelling potential there is with her. Them having opposing personalities yet similar roles(sonic was even a prince in some continiuties) as well as the dimensional separation, which could add an element of tragedy, would make a very interesting love story if done well.

[@RIOTZss]

Personally if sonic had a love interest it will be himself

[@blackwhole3389]

fr @@RIOTZss

[@tealover70]

Hell no

[@chiliboi69]

…yeah I don’t think that would work

[@megablueman]

>these arguments are the worst! Makes a video literally joining in all the arguments.

[@LJJW2222]

Any person who has no idea about the Sonic fandom: Oh I’m sure the fandom is nice as this is a kid game! After looking at the fandom for one minute: Oh Lord.

[@Toki-The-Starfall-God]

“Sonic having green eyes. That one’s a classic.” I think that’s a pun in the sense that he uses the word “classic” but as any long time sonic fan would know, classic sonic DOESN’T have green eyes. Meaning that in a nearly literal sense it can’t be a classic. 😂😂😂

[@JakeTylenol]

Both adventure 1 and 2 have Chao gardens as well so I’d add that staple.

[@The_Prizessin_der_Verurteilung]

A staple isn't something I'd call it since it was only in 3 games, Sonic Adventure, Adventure 2 and Sonic Advance. There are more games with other features than chao gardens. Here's a list Play as Shadow the Hedgehog Spindash Boost Motion Controls (Yes seriously) Sonic's blue arms. Three BOOM games, and movie Sonic in the mobile games. Kart racing. Sonic Drift (and the sequel) Twinkle Circuit(SA), SA2, Shadow and 06 let you drive cars, All Stars Racing, TSR etc. The Chao Garden is a popular feature, but a staple it is not.

[@JakeTylenol]

@@The_Prizessin_der_Verurteilung I can see your point but when I say Chao Garden I mean the baby simulator version which to my knowledge (correct me if I’m wrong, pls god), is only in the Adventure games

[@SaddieMoon]

15:40 It seemed like 06 originally wanted to be more connected to Rush. And since 06 never says she’s from the future, I think she was always from another dimension.

[@TheEggPaladin]

That thumbnail's a masterpiece 🤣

[@JakeTylenol]

I don’t mind Sonic having a relationship…or maybe not a relationship but a romance it just can’t be his focus. Like you said Sonic isn’t a romantic character, he’s free and cares about adventure, So I would rather Sonic and the now more mature Amy have like a LIGHT flirtatious relationship than something heavy. It doesn’t even have to amount to much, you could have them “hang out” more in the background of adventures in the comics (kind of like they do now), or maybe Sonic takes Amy on an adventure they just never explicitly label that relationship is all. But that’s the best way to do it imo

[@Tsuna_Dokkan]

Eggman progressing backwards does make sense if you think that Eggman would see metal’s failure in defeating sonic, then choosing to try something different and failing again

[@jaylenbutler899]

10:40 I myself thought CD took place after the events of Sonic 2, with Eggman escaping out of the Death Egg as it was gonna crash, him taking over Little Planet, fleeing out of Little Planet after Sonic saves it, & Eggman’s Egg Mobile just so happening to crashing down onto Angel Island

[@elliotsturtplus340]

Technically 06 is the CD of the adventure games it’s not a proper sequel but it it has same style of gameplay

[@legoawcstopmotioner9435]

For Robotnik progressing backwards, maybe he just had more time to work on Metal Sonic than for the two Mecha Sonics.

[@richardmorgan3665]

Shippers in general can be pretty cringe, it's like some of them need their favorite character to be in a romantic relationship in order for them to like them and if their not, they'll give the a head cannon relationship with some of the wildest characters, like why ship the main character with underage characters, or with their best friends, can characters not be friends without people wanting them to fuck. Sonic shippers aren't the worst in this regard, but some did accuse me of wanting Sonic to be a boring character for saying Sonic probably shouldn't have a romantic relationship with anyone because it would go against his character, it seems like to them Sonic would be a better character if he fucked someone which I disagree.

[@jskywalker58]

i think your being a little over dramatic about it some shippers are pretty chill like for example i'm bit of a tails x amy shipper but i'm not asking sega to make it an official thing cause i know it will never happen.

[@kaxcommentssomethingREAL]

​@@jskywalker58this is exactly how i feel as a Sonic x Blaze guy

[@richardmorgan3665]

@@jskywalker58 Yeah that's why I never said all of them, I know not all shippers are like that which is why I said some when referring to a large amount of shippers. I myself find shipping in general cringe, but I don't think all you guys that ship characters are cringe just the loud ones or the ones that can't enjoy a character unless they're in a relationship whether official or made up. But now I have to ask, why Tails x Amy? I'd get it if you said like Knuckles x Amy, Shadow x Amy, or Tail x Cream but Tails x Amy? My problem isn't with the ages of the characters but with the fact that Tails just feel like a younger brother to the crew. Don't take this as me saying your shop is wrong or anything, it's just the first time I've seen anyone ship those two.

[@widerekxxanimations6842]

14:15 Shadow the hedgehog moved on you know? Like literally 1 game ago: "goodbye shadow the hedgehog" - shadow 05

[@KazShiro]

For your comment regarding Shadow working for gun. There is a good explanation for that regarding canonicity. In the game Shadow the Hedgehog despite being originally intended as a spinoff is canon as an interquel between Sonic Heroes and Sonic 06 because at the end of the game he and GUN make peace with each other and in expert mode its straight up confirmed that all the missions you do is him doing training for GUN. TLDR: The game Shadow the Hedgehog despite people regarding it as a spinoff is why shadow works for GUN in 06 and validates its canonicity.

[@kingkryptonite0]

Only Sonic Boom is the closest we got to SonAmy romance. It's pretty much hinted that he likes her too but it feels better cuz Amy is more mature about it. She doesn't go googoo gaga when she seems him. She gets embarrassed also if the topic is brought up (Eggman even asked in one ep "So what's the deal with you and Amy?"). But that's a different universe. Hell, I wouldn't mind a Generations-like game where Sonic teams up Boom Sonic. Classic Sonic has been used up and milked enough

[@markofthewolvessucks8930]

boom sonamy is sonamy done right.

[@littlen3962]

my head canon for the metal sonic ordeal is that metal sonic got destroyed beyond repairing and egg man did not have enough parts to rebuild him so used his scraps to make mecha/silver sonic

[@MapleTreeCat]

my attempt to explain the backwards evolution of sonic robots: After sonic beat metal in the stardust speedway boss, Eggman did not have the materials to rebuild him, so he instead used a prototype scrapped robot, which is silver sonic (aka Mecha mark 0)

[@Nerdy_Melodies]

For anyone worrying about which games are canon and which are not, look for comic books, video game dialogue, and characters that TALK about the past games. For example, from what I've seen, SA1 and 2, Sonic Heroes, Sonic 06, Sonic Colors, Sonic and The Secret Rings, Sonic and the Dark Knight, Sonic Forces, and Sonic Frontiers are CANON video games because the games follow storylines similar to past games, dialogue, and comic books will discuss it. I know this because Sonic Frontiers has a moment when Tails and Sonic talks about Infinite and there are many canon comics that discuss Sonic Forces, making that game canon. Sonic Colors is also heavily talked about because "wisp energy" is the biggest part of the modern games. SA1 and SA2 (plus Sonic Heroes) are the baseline plot for Shadow and his past with Maria and Eggman's (great?) grandfather. This may be touchy, but I always knew Sonic 06 was canon because the IDW comics following the game PLUS games after Sonic Generations all have a problem with time and the future. This is why Silver and Blaze are STILL characters in the franchise. If Sonic 06 wasn't canon, Silver and Blaze would have never been in future games just like older characters from the late 1990s or early 2000s. Granted, Silver isn't ALWAYS in the games... but he plays a major role in the comics and he IS mentioned in Sonic Frontiers At the end of the game when you obtain all levels for Sonic's abilities, the Elder Koko will say how they wished they had someone like Sonic to stop the war. Sonic then states, "I know a time-traveler (hinting at Silver)..." and asks if he wanted to bring his friend to the Island to fix their timeline. Blaze is also mentioned in dialogue as well, but you have to trigger it at the right time and place. This shows that Sonic06 is canon because Blaze and Silver and the plot of Sonic 06 itself is still an issue in later games. I actually have a theory that the reason why all of these Sonic 06 references are showing up is because SEGA is planning to release a game following up from Sonic 06 and Sonic Frontiers. After all, Tails said he would need to go on his own adventure... so it would make sense that Silver and Blaze would return as main characters and a "sequel" to Sonic 06. Anyways, just look for that when a new game comes out :)

[@brandongittens9045]

If they ever do for some awful reason add romance, it should stay so subtle it doesn’t matter, for example the line in frontiers that I’m not sure if it’s removed or not but essentially saying he should’ve told Amy how he felt sooner. Sure if they wanna do that cool, just don’t make it known as this widely official thing and so on and so on, a safe distance from that is good

[@Ollie.H-23]

The reason Robotnik went from Metal Sonic to Silver and then Mecha was because Metal Sonic was stranded on Little Planet for a year. Sonic 4 (yes, it's canon whether it's good or bad) shows that Metal Sonic was still broken on Little Planet and Robotnik had to come and collect him when the planet returned. We know that Little Planet disappears from Mobius for 11 months a year meaning he was left there for a whole year before being collected. In that time, Robotnik built Silver and Mecha Sonic, presumably in a hurry based on how they're both about as lethal as a broken tin can.

[@starlight-669]

Head cannon for sonic 06. Everyone that wasn't in the Solaris boss area lost their memories so no one expect for sonic, silver, shadow, amy, knuckles, tails, omega, eggman, ruge, omega, and elease remembers what happened during 06