These Gearbox Folding Bikes Will Blow Your Mind (Custom Bromptons!)

[@Cyclingabout]

I hope you liked this video! Which upgrades would make a Brompton especially appealing to you? The gearbox drivetrain, belt drive, larger diameter wheels, bigger frame sizing or disc brakes? 🤔😎😊

[@qzrnuiqntp]

Well, in my opinion it's difficult to upgrade such a bike like a Brompton, as it is dedicated to a specific use. Perhaps the Brompton can be a little bigger and heavier for tall people, but obviously the smaller and less strong ones will still enjoy the lighter and smaller version. In that perspective, all the "upgrades" I would enjoy put together turn the Brompton into something else, the bike I may use, but certainly not many current users of a Brompton bike would. I would enjoy a smart gearbox like the Kindernay VII, not a belt drive because I'm fond of "oval" chainrings, but much bigger wheels and tyres. High quality steel or titanium frame. And I would not buy a new bike that is not sold tubeless. In fact, I just want my perfect city bike to be easier to carry. But this is not the basic Brompton concept... Anyway, that would and certainly will be so great to have a wide range of different bikes fitting many different uses and people.

[@sonigo]

I'd be particularly interested in a belt drive and gearbox drivetrain. Will be curious to see if Brompton adopts any of those in the future. I recently received a Helix folding bike with 24" wheels and an Alfine drive train. The folded size is quite compact and tide quality is much closer to a full sized bike. I'd love to get your opinion on it in a future video.

[@Goodman-4525]

I absolutely dispise the fact that Brompton are just sitting on their palms raking in the cash from a 50 year old design. The constant use of proprietary parts or outdated standards when I know they have the R&D to implement modern QR standards is just absolutely maddening

[@jonabub]

@@Goodman-4525 That's not the reason at all. The reason is the tight window that they try to fit in, size-wise and because everything is necessarily backwards-compatible. That's what made it a great bike in the first place. Where parts of other manufacturers didn't hinder the folding size or other functions they implemented them. Many of the changes displayed here will permanently take away the compatibility or folding size.

[@kam_iko]

brompton says that a belt drive is “not possible”, as folding the bike bends the belt, which is not recommended by the (belt) manufacturer 🤦‍♂️

[@po311737]

what Brompton actually do is changing the color and sell it for "special edition"

[@SergeRychkov]

It's better to buy the cheapest A line Brompton (€995) and put a belt drive with Alfine 11 hub and disc brakes. C line (>€1435) and P line (>€2600) cost more for nothing in this case, since most of the expensive stuff will be replaced.

[@captbeardy]

Given that Brompton have struggled for avery many years to keep up with demand, there is little incentive for them to increase the range of options and they know that those,that have the desire for improvements the aftermarket builders already exist. The main reasons for the eye watering costs are Brompton continued commitment to their London based manufacturing, many other companies would and do move their manufacturing overseas as soon they become successful. On top of this, as stated above, they sell everything they can make, so the evidence would suggest that their market is not price sensitive. BTW, The titanium frame set has been available for a number of years.

[@MrJofArnold]

The thing about them insisting on building London is incorrect. They are building a new factory in Ashford and the T is made in Sheffield

[@chrishowell5718]

@@MrJofArnold The point about London is that they haven't moved manufacturing *overseas*, as many manufacturers do. Moving to Ashford hardly refutes that. Sheffield is also still in the UK.

[@jamesmitchell2041]

The titanium forks and rear triangle have been available for a number of years, the main frame has not. Unless you are referring to the aftermarket knockoffs?

[@112chapters3]

Id assume you work for BBC as you thinm London means UK

[@chrishowell5718]

@@112chapters3 if you want to conflate moving from London to a purpose-built factory in Kent (and outsourcing Ti fabrication to a specialist facility in Sheffield) with moving manufacturing to the Far East then that's fine. To me though that speaks of a more London-centric mindset than saying that moving to Kent is still locally-produced.

[@fredecks4641]

I tour on a Bike Friday that I built up myself with belt drive and Rohloff (4 continents so far). I love that I can pack the bike into a suitcase to avoid airline fees. I've always been envious of Brompton's super-tiny folded size, but I chose Bike Friday for the standard components throughout. The wheel dropouts are standard (100/135mm). The bottom bracket is standard. The brake bosses are standard. The headset is standard. I can buy just the frame (as I did), and build it up with exactly the componentry I want (as I did), to create the exact bike I want and love. If Brompton used standard dropout widths, brake mounts, headsets, etc., I'd be all over it. I'm jealous of how tiny they fold, but I've got my Bike Friday built precisely the way I love it!

[@pantaraxia]

Which BF? I had a Tikit for a few months and sold it. It compared unfavorably with my Brompton: same wheel size but much bulkier when folded, and the handlebar post flexed annoyingly.

[@markg1531]

@@pantaraxiaMe too. I was very happy to replace my two BFs with Bromptons. I like them much better.

[@mplsmark222]

I’ve got a Bike Friday and have never owned a Brompton. I marvel at the folding of the Brompton. Such amazing product design and engineering. To me, there are too many compromises in the setup and one size fits all idea of the Brompton, doesn’t work for me. Plus, all that Brompton parts and accessories seem to be priced at a hefty premium. I wish the BF had a quicker fold, like the Brompton, but that will never happen. For the way I use the bike, it’s BF for me. If I lived in London or New York City, I’d probably choose the Brompton or a clone. The Brompton is a true folding bike, the BF, is a bike that can fold, to me, there is a difference,.

[@david78212]

I applaud Brompton for keeping their London based manufacturing. I completely dislike the Chinese "ripping" off the design and making their own brand of "Brompton". I've looked at them and there really isn't much difference in price to justify buying a cheap Chinese knockoff bike. The base model is maybe $200 cheaper and the "options" add to the price very rapidly. I would, honestly, rather pay the extra price and get the support from Brompton as opposed to a company that I'm going to have to try to work with for months IF!!! they stand behind their product at all. I am going to buy a Brompton when I move onto my sailboat full time... spring/summer 2023. I'm not paying $1800 to get out of my lease.

[@christophggcyrus6861]

Pretty interesting - new for me. My favorite would be a Pinion Gearbox, the top-notch Schwalbe tires, disc-brakes, titanium frame. Belt train not to forget 😇

[@52blackshadow]

I want the same.

[@bikelove9039]

Great review of Brompton aftermarket upgrades. I run a bicycle repair shop a few doors along from Ben @ Kinetic’s and l love seeing the work he does with Brompton’s in making them a more usable bicycle, in fact the silver one with the massive 16 x3 inch tyres has a set of my Loveguards on it. Without people like Ben and Vincent making products the bicycle market world would be a bit boring.

[@52blackshadow]

Could you run over to Kinetics for me and ask them why they don't answer emails? And I am not the only one that is wondering.

[@leftistelf]

Brompton started as a major innovator and lost the plot. Belt driven foldable bike with great gearing just makes sense. So, other dealers are fill the gap. Good for us. Sorry, Brompton!

[@henryjgray]

Utter bollocks

[@Goodman-4525]

I asked Eerdermetaal and he said he does want to make his rear triangle and forks more accessible and god I can't wait for him to do that.

[@robinrai4973]

I'm all for upgrades so long as it doesn't really compromise its folding size, that is the whole point of it afterall!

[@danhoang6335]

My Brompton was upgraded with Kinetic's rear frame and Alfine 11-speed hub. It is a huge difference from the original 6-speed yet minimal penalty in weight and compactness.

[@damian6527]

How much did you pay for such upgrade?

[@qzrnuiqntp]

Very interesting!

[@thatchanguy]

Which Brompton line? C line?

[@52blackshadow]

Two years on...and you still can't get a setup like you have from the Brompton factory. Or any of these other modifications either.

[@siffoine]

They have their perfect niche and brand. In that position the companies rarely benefit from expanding, at least on such a competitive market

[@marcalvarez4890]

Ask Kodak and Zerox how that business plan worked for them.

[@siffoine]

@@marcalvarez4890 To be fair, both of the products of theirs got completely replaced, so they had no choice but to try something else. They were also far from niche from the beginning. With Brompton it is a little different situation, I’m sure Brompton could invest in other varieties, but that would eat up the sales of their current offering and would probably offer very little in return.

[@sitoudien9816]

Evolve or die.

[@thetessellater9163]

@@marcalvarez4890 - Kodak was founded in 1888, and have entirely changed what they make over the years. Xerox, founded 1908, developed a product no-one else was making at the time, and still have very few subsequent competitors. Brompton are just one of the many folding bike makers, and one of thousands of bike makers, so not a very good comparison with the two companies you suggest, though I see your point.

[@thierrysf]

Trying to modify a Brompton to fit 20-inch wheels is absurd. You are much better off starting with a folding bike with 20-inch wheels out of the box. There are many good options that would be a lot less expensive and much more convenient.

[@2Bikes4Adventure]

When going through impassable bike paths with our Brompton, we tell ourselves, Alee would like it here! Glad our channel was of assistance in the production of this great video.

[@Cyclingabout]

Thanks for *your* great videos! You guys are using some excellent visuals to convey pretty dense information. It's been fun to go through your channel to see how you break everything down. Keep it up!

[@NoZenith]

@2Bikes4Adventure 🤗 love you two!

[@freredaran]

A pinion gearbox Brompton with 18" wheels, 2" Big Apple tires and a belt drive: what an absolutely spot-on conclusion to this gorgeous video!

[@farukcccc]

Many of these bikes aren't brompton at all. Size matters when it comes to be an original brompton. In addition to that Belt drive option doesn't work with Brompton's folding way. I appretiate aftermarket industry but many of your examples don't fit with me. I was wondering the 5kg bike in the beginning of the video but you've passed it.

[@letsif]

This is the kind of video I've been waiting for. The small Brompton fold is the essence of design, the weight and cost of a standard Bromy being the main criticism. It is, after all an urban bike, and suits that purpose beautifully. These superior upgrades are for those who want the ultimate versatility regardless of cost. Belt drives and pinion gear are a very desirable upgrade for performance and practicality. The original Brompton isn't perfect, as you say, but suits most urban riders needs. Thanks for this excellent revue.

[@vizdrum9640]

Finally a sensible remark ! Imagine if Brompton started doing some of the modifications he suggests... the price ! He misses the point that if Bromptons are NOT more expensive it is specifically because they only have ONE STANDARD PRODUCT

[@furiousdoe7779]

Brompton is British … that will answer your question. 😁

[@jameshcox]

Thanks for this video. I'd always wondered why my average speed on the Brompton was 1km lower than on my 'normal' bike - maybe its the small wheel. Even so, larger wheel is not an upgrade I'll make.

[@JohnDoe-yh9gi]

Please do not buckle brommie. Keep it made in london

[@MarkHarrisonBNE]

Yeah, nah. Brompton are incredibly conservative. I owned an M6 Brompton and rode it every working day for seven years on a mixed mode commute. I (mostly) loved it, but I hated the gear setup. I wrote to Brompton and asked them if they had considered some other grarbox alternative and the answer I got was (paraphrased for brevity) It ain’t broke so we’re not gonna fix it… Maybe you should buy something else?… So I did. I bought a Birdy with a Rohloff. It was still way cheaper than trying to accessorise a Brompton into something I could ride extended routes on.

[@razzahling8951]

which is incredibly frustrating! the founder of the company was an innovator that saw that folding bikes could be improved, and he made the brompton!

[@entltyq]

People should really report on Helix titanium folding bicycles. Versatile, well built, but very expensive. They are also Electric-ready.

[@orenaofer]

Definitely want to see more reports about the Helix!

[@yarpenzigrin1893]

For a bike as expensive as a Brompton it's surprisingly basic. There are plenty of folding bikes that are much less expensive and offer the same functionality and performance.

[@DM-ve8vb]

For all you people complaining about the price, don’t buy one! I love my Brompton. I ride it to JFK airport to go to work. I am a pilot and fly to Europe mostly. I take the Brompton with me on trips to Copenhagen, Malaga, Barcelona, Paris, and other places. There is no way that I would consider any other folding bike as the Brompton is incredibly well engineered. The bike rides like a proper road bike once one gets used to the quick steering.

[@SantoRedentor]

Do you have a yellow Brompton with s titanium fork? I might have ridden with in Barcelona. I once met an American pilot woman here who joined a road bike ride. She kept up with the group the whole ride with her Brompton :D. She flew Delta of I'm not mistaken. I was greatly impressed to be honest.

[@robertdavey2660]

Just like i love my Birdy Rohloff with disc brakes, dual suspension and easy fold- price doesn't come into it :)

[@alexmorgan3435]

@@robertdavey2660 A Brompton's folding is far far superior to that of a Birdy. You're deluded if you think it is better.

[@robertdavey2660]

@@alexmorgan3435 Definitely agree with you there but that's NOT why i bought and still own a Birdy. I bought a Birdy (even though it's easy to fold) because it's one of the world's best folding bikes for bicycle touring being far, far, far better than a brompton , modified or not! There will all ways be compromises when it comes to small wheeled folding bikes to be functional in bike touring. Bike Friday get around this by allowing the case the bike comes in to be turned into a trailer towed by the bike. blah,blah,blah!

[@ianji]

In London UK, there are restrictions on taking regular bikes on trains but folding bikes are allowed. I recalled that there was a wheel size limit for folding bikes but checking online it seems the limit is 20" so even the biggest wheels featured should be OK. There are probably a lot of lockers around that are just big enough for a regular Brompton so you might be stuck if you have a bigger one. My solution for going in to London during busy periods is a micro kick scooter (not electric). Half the weight of a standard Brompton and one fifth the price. I know it is not as quick as a bike and you miss out on rack and panniers, but it is much faster than walking for the same effort. At first I was having trouble scooting any significant distance but I quickly discovered that the key is to swap legs every five kicks, then I can keep going indefinitely and keep up with the slower cyclists.

[@atomicsmith]

Man that pinion gearbox looks so 'right' on the Brompton.

I'm 195cm tall, and find the position on my Brompton to be quite comfy. I would not mind a lighter frame with a 12/9 pinion box, belt drive, and the better cushioned tires though. Those tiny tires to get stuck on even bad cobblestone. I've been meaning to get that upgrade for years. (I have the 18 speed on my travel bike and think that'd be overkill for the Brompton.)

[@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188]

I have had a Chinese copy of an English, triangle "folding bike" type with a belt drive, and besides feeling like a "slightly trained Jellyfish", the belt-drive wasn't that effective. Today I have a former Topmodel, a LighthweightH6LXBrompton 6 gear folding bike, besides with a titanium fork- and back triangle, also with some lighter titanium ad-ons, like a new seat post and a carbon handlebar. I have searched for a carbon stem post, but without any luck?

[@felixhaimson8921]

The Tern Verge S8i is also a good example of a folding bike that comes stock with a belt and gearbox drivetrain.

[@jonabub]

I don't think they should ever change anything that's giving up on the backwards compatibility of the bromptons. In my opinion that's what makes brompton the greates bikes in the world, period. They already fit almost anyone, they hold up a lifetime and they are extremely price-stable because of their resell-value. That said, and as long as they would always keep their old and small models available, there is some combinations i could imagine: Smaller diameter, wider tires, longer rear triangle and longer travel of the rear suspension plus front suspension and front motor would be a fun sand ride. Slightly larger diameter as a road bike, but with aero bags in the front and read (UCI rules don't matter anyhow, so embrace it). Slightly larger and MTB-configuration but with a bit more suspension than Eerder-Metals version. I certainly want the recumbent version back that the woman who offered the enhances size Brompton also developed. But this time with a motor option and belt drive option. A cheap starter version of a brompton. A tool to get newbies hooked for a cheap price that allows for loads of upgrades. A brompton tandem that folds into two. A brompton long john that folds into two parts, a cart and the folded brompton. And certainly a brompton tall bike that can be seperated into two bikes. In an ideal world all of the above would offer any gearing available and have disc brakes. But tbh, usual brakes work fine if tuned correctly. But all those dreams aside: Bromptons are the most perfect compromise if you could only have one bike. Before anyone complains: I know, the rule is n+1 and therefore Bromptons should just be the first bike you get when you're a kid as they grow with you and can always go with you. (And i would have strongly disagreed with that before i owned one out of necessity for my commute.) Great overview though and for further research i can recommend bromptonauten.de

[@rdwilander]

I think the belt drive and larger ring is a great option as a rookie on this subject but less maintenance and more reliability/durability seems to make sense for most customers

[@nateums]

Love this, I own a wide range brompton, and have already modified it to 21 gear inches with just a chainring swap. I think these are the ultimate utilitarian bikes if you look at amount of volume they take. I hope brompton gives the option of a factory-made rear triangle and allows the customization options you listed. As far as taller riders, they'd have to also sell mid-frames that are larger... i really don't see how this will be so hard to implement.

[@posteroonie]

I'd like a 24" folder with 2" tires, belt drive, and an internal hub. If Brompton doesn't come out with a larger model I'll just let the after-market provide the whole bicycle. :)

[@rogervmantovani]

Tern Verge S8i is a better option than Brompton.

[@wingcreator]

Tern is fine but the folding is terrible.

[@Vegan_Touring_Cyclist]

I have a 6 speed Brompton, I removed the 2 speed shifter, because it is a horrible design, so it is only 3 speed now, but with the wide range IGH. It is not that bad this way. I do not get this wheel upgrade craziness, the point of Brompton is the small package, for example, I could not bring it to the bus here in Budapest if it would has a bigger wheel. And if you put a 20" wide wheel into the Brompton, it would be still a very bad MTB, and again, If you put a 20" road wheel in the Brompton, it would be still a very bad road bike. Of course I like to watch crazy people doing crazy stuff on Insta, so I like this mods anyway lol. But what I would like to see is a real commuter beast from Brompton. 5 speed IGH is well enough, but with drum brakes all around, dynamo lights, and belt drive, ohh, It would be a dream setup. I am only 182cm, so I do not need a longer frame. Community bikes have a slanted seat tube angle, so when you extend it, it makes the reach a little bit longer, maybe this could be used. But I expect nothing useful from Brompton, I am very disappointed about their "innovations", but the best would be a good paint job, we do not even need excellent, but at least a good paint, because now... virtually every bike in the market has a better coating, maybe better shifters, because, again, it is a premium bike, and this plastic shifters are just disappointing.

[@mikstratok]

honestly, if one wants a bromptoon but with 20" and a rohloff, then just get a birdy instead.

[@Eduardo_Espinoza]

Exactly, 1st thing that came to mind

[@rosserobertolli]

Nice video! I really like the brompton races :D We did do some testing with velomobiles with tire width and came to the conclusion that wider tires have less rolling resistance than narrower ones (with an increase in drag on normal bikes, but not on velomobiles). I think that's also partly the reason why road bikes are going up in width. If you think about it, a tire at a certain pressure will always have the same (flat, therefore deformed) contact patch with the road. A narrow tire will have a longer patch (and thus deeper in the center and more elongation/contraction/rubbing lengthwise) and a wider tire will have a wider patch with less deformation and resistance since it's already wider and deeper.

[@trebled99]

They will work perfect in the 15 minute city areas they willl save the planet NOT.

[@normawingo5116]

I hope Brompton comes out with super lite, larger wheel, and internal gear hub, that’s what I’d buy. Not interested in months of downtime doing aftermarket tho. Great video packed with info, as usual. Your videos are the ones I measure all other bike videos against. Much info and you have integrity. Thank you for spending time to help me.

[@robenglish416]

We have two Bromptons in the family, one with 3 and one with 6 gears. I find the 6-speed finicky and would love an internal hub gear like alpine 8 or 11 and a carbon belt drive since I don’t clean my bike good enough (according to my mechanic). A better rear rack system and wider tires up to at least 2” or 40-47 mm.

[@Mo-mu4er]

Totally agree; the no-maintenance belt drive + Alfine hub would be perfect for a travel bike, where you're also more likely to be wearing regular clothes and don't want to stress about chain lube/grease.

[@user-cg3uy2gl3u]

I imagine cyclingabout was looking to buy a Brompton, then said to himself 'well, I would like one with a bigger frame, a rohloff hub and a beltdrive... I should make a video to give them ideas...'

[@Cyclingabout]

Luckily, I can just go to the aftermarket to make this happen!

[@alexmorgan3435]

LoL.

[@ifell3]

Might as well just by aftermarket parts and build your own aha

[@gvp999999]

7:14 What's left of the original bike on this? For what it's costing you may as well be getting a custom bike made to start with.

[@southerntexashomestead5028]

Would love to see the ability to upgrade my existing Brompton to a beltdrive. I've seen Larger bikes with belt drive " Priority bikes" which are great, but want to keep the small folding frame as I use it when traveling on my sailboat. A larger bike will not work. I'll be watching for the aftermarket option of the belt drive for my Brompton. Thanks.

[@radlphil]

Another well made and informative video. Thx! I've been riding bromptons since 2001. I still own one with a 1" fork. It flexes more than my new one. I was actually very positively surprised by your video, because I just felt a need to have a more versatile Brompton and I just started with some research. This input from you helps a lot! Thx! For me personal I would prefer a brompton with rohloff or kinderney hub, belt drive, disc breaks and 18x20 inch wheels. Wonder what that project would cost?

[@dwizzyvid]

Cool to see Eerder Metaal futured here! I've met Vincent a few times when my sister had a Brompton shop, loved picking his brain.

[@sdfaasf7574]

to expensive as a single bike too expensive as a bike. Uncomfortable, to match problems with gear

[@josephd9079]

you were right the g line came out

[@dysphoricpeach]

thank you SO MUCH for making this video! i’ve been all over the internet trying to find info on this stuff, and it just popped up in my recommended! i couldn’t find anyone who had put a belt drive and custom igh on a brompton. and the wheel size stuff is something i needed that i hadn’t even thought about. i kinda hope bromptom doesn’t make this stuff, because if they do, they’ll make it egregiously expensive. what i /would/ like is a definitive place for all things aftermarket brompton, where i can know from others’ experiences the quality of certain aftermarket parts, their compatibility, and the trade offs that come with making a custom brompton

[@josh33172]

Well there's a saying...."Innovate or die" With current tech and other companies willing to embrace it, I'd say they have no choice.

[@svenlima]

Bromptons are too expensive.

[@earlbee3196]

I sill picked one up, Brompton explorer, 6L £1265 I also have a mountain bike , Cost nearly twice that of the Brompton . Just saying. 🚴🏼‍♀️🚴🏼🚴‍♂️

[@albertmeyer8983]

No they are not. They are built in London, not in a country where people and environment are exploited

[@rickyc6463]

Yes they’re expensive but totally worth it… just bought a T line

[@earlbee3196]

@@albertmeyer8983 I❤️my Brompton It’s totally worth it for me. 🚴🏼‍♀️🚴‍♂️🚴🏼

[@vizdrum9640]

Imagine if they added some of the mods the guy here wants, you would have 20 inch tires on a brompton for 5k ! He misses the point that IF BROMPTONS ARE NOT MORE EXPENSIVE IT IS EXACTLY BECAUSE THEY ONLY MAKE ONE SINGLE TYPE OF BIKE FRAME

[@rydmerlin]

It should be noted that the possibility of compromising safety exists whenever you add an aftermarket part to any Brompton.

[@swagmanandy]

The WHOLE POINT of a bromptons success IS the fact that they FOLD SO SMALL, once you get to the point of making them bigger they just become 'any other' folding bike and then your choice is irrelevant also they are a premium product already that most people CANNOT afford let alone all that WAY overpriced custom work.

[@JohnStenborg]

…tried for years to ride mine…but they are the most horrible bike ever to ride…the geometri and those little ass n spine cracking wheels is just impossible…so horrible…

[@chrislowe6926]

Belt drive Brompton. That would be great - the standard gears and chain wear because they are lighter weight, and with all year round riding, get dirty in winter. Having a belt drive would be much better for super low maintenance. That would definitely attract me to replace my current Brompton.

[@alexmorgan3435]

Yup chains are high maintenance. Belts are much better.

[@lcg3816]

Belt drive+ internal 7 speed gear hub can win the market already… as a city bicycle it has to be low maintenance…..

[@Eduardo_Espinoza]

Think dahon did they with there oun model, but they was a long time ago

[@giz7138]

Brompton are building a new factory at Ashford. This is obviously part of a plan to expand production, hopefully they will also mean a wider range of models and perhaps even some degree of customisation. I'd love a belt drive Brompton. My current commuter bike has a Shimano 8-speed hub, Gates belt-drive and hydraulic discs - I'd love a Bromtpn with similar spec because it really is the ideal city bike spec.

[@alexmorgan3435]

Not just city bike, but touring, expedition, mtb, any where there is dirt muck wet and grime a belt beats a primitive Flinstone's derailleur drive train. End of.

[@alexgonzalez-davidson709]

As an avid cyclist who: a. Likes to be away from tarmac; b. Often has to travel (with the bike) on trains, buses, planes, etc.; c. enjoys cycling very steep hills; d. loves short bike touring - camping trips (3/4 days max); and e. commutes by bicycle; I am yet to come across a bicycle that serves all my needs. After watching this video, I guess that a Brompton with 18 inch wheels, 2 or so inch tires, and an internal gear hub could be a great balance between all of the above. It would be expensive (€4K at least) and a bit heavy but still better than my current set up, which is more than 2 (not cheap) bikes in several locations… Thanks either way Alan for yet another great video, can’t wait until you get to Northern Thailand and do one on the awesome Mae Hong Son loop, off road ideally. I do it several times a year and it just keeps getting better. 😊

[@AB-dw8vo]

If brombton will solve its problems the nerds that ride it and feel special wont buy it anymore,

[@mcr8331]

I really like folding bikes and I guess the main purpose of a Brompton is to get around in cities. For me the biggest downside is the price and that it is so well known which drives up the potential to get stolen. If Brompton adds a costly gear system this aspect would get even worse. Cycling would be so much better without bike theft (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*.✧

[@InnuendoXP]

@earlbee31 won't stop it being stolen from inside your house or garage

[@ClockworksOfGL]

The thieves will steal anything, it doesn’t matter if it’s worth nothing.

[@Eduardo_Espinoza]

@earlbee31 thieves don't care if you're on the bike or not, & it's a thing. I never park my folder, yet someone has tried to jam a tree branch into my front wheel recently. Thieves would probably steal the Brompton off of another thieve in the time frame🚴🏼🚴🏾‍♀️🚴‍♂️

[@ClockworksOfGL]

@@Eduardo_Espinoza No kidding, these crooks would steal the cream out of your coffee.

[@alexmorgan3435]

Don't whinge about the prices of Brompton you get what you pay for. In any case compared to other premium bikes the Brompton is very competitively priced. Just work harder and save some more £££££££. This is what I did to get mine and once you have it and ride you realise what a brilliant design and bicycle it is, far far superior to other folding bikes. It's utility value is priceless. Thieves will steal anything. My first Brompton was stolen from outside the HQ of London University in Mallet Street despite having a Kryptonite D lock securing it to an Oxford stand and a flock of CCTV cameras watching it. I never ever saw it again but I got another on my insurance pretty quickly. This is my current one and it never ever leaves my sight if I am out and about on it. I should put a tracker in the frame and likewise with my other bikes which are also desirable.

[@threedot141]

Nice video! I see you have lots of shots of the Birdy folding bike there too. I have both, and the Birdy works well on rougher surfaces.

[@Eduardo_Espinoza]

Yes, birdies are great! You don't have that frame joint too!

[@winstonsmith8107]

They should as roads in the UK are not maintained - more rough terrain on roads plus deep pot holes making Brompton dangerous to ride in rainy condition. So you go through a puddle at speed to find out it's a deep pot hole. Extra heart pounding as you just manage to stay on.

[@Eduardo_Espinoza]

That's why you need suspension like the birdy, not bigger tires, since mini motorcycles are used almost anywhere at higher speeds

[@SanFranDan]

I have a 20" folding Dahon from 2013 which has a factory-installed NuVinci (Enviolo) transmission. It's been flawless and maintenance free for 9 years and... I dunno, but a lot of miles. I love it, though I didn't know I was losing ~10% of my exertion to inefficiencies until about a year ago. The bike was a bust, as it cost more and was heavier than otherwise comparable models. Dahon only offered it for 2 years, and only sold about 100. Even with my beloved NuVinci/Enviolo transmission, my top-of-the-range Dahon was less expensive than the least expensive single speed Brompton.

[@cjaus]

I think, that a gearbox with a felt drive will come soon. A new design with 20 inch wheels, gearbox and felt drive would attract many new customers and will also come in some years.

[@srspower]

But if you want a bigger and heavier folding bike there are a lot of much better ebike options coming out if china for not much money.

[@satish8299]

Nice docu, and yes the Bromtons are the best, but very expensive, but indeed of they manage to make the wheel larger and one larger gear then i will buy one, if it is below the 3000 euro price.

[@peterhehn9511]

I love my Brompton. Because there is a lack of Brompton "options" like wider tires, disc brakes, etc. I purchased a Ritchey Outback Break Away for adventure travel. Vastly superior in everyway except in a bigger package (travel case vs Brompton fold). Unfortunately Brompton has fallen on deaf ears regarding suggestions to make their bikes better suited for all terrain. Probably content on selling every single one of their 80,000 annual bikes. May have to look into the aftermarket to upgrade my Brompton.

[@TheMakabert]

I would love to see a belt drive and a rohloff/alfine hub on a titanium brompton if they ever roll out one with those specifications I’ll pull the trigger and buy immediately not because I need another bike but because I want a bike just like that 😀

[@jesusjohnblog]

Yeah, was very disappointed to see the T-Line ship with only a four speed derailleur option (with a range similar to that of the standard Sturmey hub). I’m a huge fan of hub gears for city cycling (being able to change down stopped at lights is a huge benefit) and I like the relative lack of maintenance. I know hub gears are heavy, but I’d accept that in a ti frame. Just miffed the option isn’t there.

[@lorenzkeiblinger9087]

You should check out Vello Bike, they also have titanium folding bikes with alfine or rohloff beltdrive options ;)

[@thomashosch930]

I really like my Brompton. It is expensive however they keep their value well. I put ergon grips on mine as my hands would go numb on longer rides. The new grips gives me another hand position and doesn't effect the fold. No longer have a problem with numbness. Mostly I use the Brompton for going to Church and grocery shopping. I can put it in a shopping cart and don't have to worry about it getting stolen. All my groceries for a week can fit in the bags. It's not my only bicycle. But I don't have a car so at least in my own eyes I can justify the cost. If I'm rebuilding, doing maintenance on a bike I just ride a different one. Really appreciate the information you have provided. Based on your recommendation my son got a Kona Sutra. It is a very good bike for the money. Love your videos of South and Central America. All the best to you.

[@markg1531]

I have no problems with my stock Bromptons. I can fit two of them easily in the trunk of a subcompact car and they ride just fine.

[@rhl2macwan]

If the demand for their current range goes down then yes as long as people don’t go like Ohh new colour Here take my money!!

[@SingaporeUntold]

No they won’t increase the model range. I think they need to streamline as the demand gets less. Also their marketing and community is number 1 And they are doing that well with Brompton rides and community events. The trump card brompton has is its name and the sort of high brow of spending more. Some aftermarket or Chinese clones already have surpassed brompton offering 7 and 9 speed external and even better quality parts. It’s kinda funny to see a person mod their Brompton with a lot of clone parts essentially making a clone with a brompton frame. Even brompton policy is that it needs to be 16” wheels and all brompton frame for it to be a brompton. By their own words. So they will not deviate because they cannot compete with the aftermarket sector. They are slow and slow to innovate. It’s sort of weird that brompton will say things like all of the frame has to be a brompton but you get brompton going on brompton even rides with their Chinese forks and triangle frames. I guess it’s best they ignore and pretend their customers are not replacing every stock part. But still brand name is strong and that is what they will spend their revenue maintaining. It’s the only advantage they have now.

[@stefan_brix]

Very good video with a really wide overview of alle the options available for Bromptons. One of my Bromptons is a Big-Apple-Rohloff-Conversion with new fork and new rear triangle from Kinetics. I just wanted to have a Brompton with Rohloff and the Big Apple 50-305 Tires are more or less just an "experiment". The bike runs really good and the tires offer greater comfort and greater "control" on rougher ground. But they are significantly smaller in outer diameter than the standard 35-349. That means the "Big Apple-Option" has two drawbacks: 1. It compromises the drive train, because you have to use the crazy 13 teeth sprocket (which lead to an even wider chainline with the Rohloff!) or you choose a crazy big chain wheel in the front with 58 teeth (what I do) and a 15 teeth sprocket. 2. A new fork with 100 mm width and disc brake is mandatory which makes the bike another 26 mm wider (in addition to the 23 mm of the rear triangle). Yeah, that does not sound much, but it often makes the difference if the folded bike will fit between to seats on a train or any other "place for luggage". The Rohloff drivetrain is great of course, but it adds a lot of weight to the bike. The rear triangle from Kinetics (I bought one with integrated rack) is nearly perfect, but the pedals can no longer moved freely, during the foldings process, so you have to think about a correct position before folding. This is because of the 135 mm width, but mainly because of the disc brake. I use my Brompton regularly during business-trips by train (mostly german ICE), where it must be folded as small as possible to fit into the (way to small!) luggage-places. On the other hand I am riding up to 25 km per day in hilly, sometimes rougher terrain, which requires a better drivetrain than the original Bromptons have (all my Bromptons have mudguards (extended, with real rubber flaps) and dynamo-light of course). My overall experience is: All Bromptons come with poor drivetrains and the original Brompton is really hard to optimize. 1. The best thing would be a internal geared hub of high quality that fit in the small 112 mm spacing of the rear triangel. A compromise could be a custom made rear triangel with 135 mm spacing, but without(!) disc brakes, I think it would be possible to rotate the pedals freely, when folded. 2. A belt drive would be great 3. Maybe hydraulic rim brakes ...

[@whirving]

What timing! I've recently revived an old prototype bike. When I worked at Bike Friday I made the second of 2 prototype 16" wheeled beam suspension folders designed to fit in an airline carry on bag. Currently I am sourcing parts to get this belated project rolling. So far very few snags, I even put on Schwalbe's "Brompton" touring tire. It should be a fun bike, the rear wheel is currently built with an old Sachs 3x7 hub, but that may be an issue due to parts availability. It's actually a nice looking bike and fits me (I'm 5' 9") with room to spare. Brompton has really improved and is now one of the best folders made in my opinion. I would love to visit the factory!

[@KavanOBrien]

I do like the idea of belt drive Brompton , the only sad thing about Brompton as a company they seem to be very slow to play catch up with what customers want instead their head in the sand

[@Kelkschiz]

I like how well-designed these bikes are. But, like you, I am rather tall. I like bicycles with bigger frames and wheels. So I am afraid I will have to skip these for now. I think I just fall outside of their target market segment.

[@manu.yt25]

Cool bikes, but the prices are insane, and that's sad because if they were more affordable we would have more cyclists using them in cities... thankfully brands like Decathlon are doing a good job at making cheap folding bikes, I'm glad I was able to buy a Tilt 500 for 300 bucks (which does almost everything like a Brompton, including moving it around folded).... Hopefully the design patents for Brompton will be soon in public domain and companies will be able to replicate them exactly for a fraction of the price, possibly with all these cool mods we have seen in the video.

[@tjy4517]

Brompton patents expired in 1999 so 23+ years ago. Currently Brompton is defending based upon using copyright as the argument is the Brompton shape is unique.

[@manu.yt25]

@@tjy4517 Alright thanks for the info, interesting... we'll see how long that goes in a way it's fair that they try to protect their invention but on the other hand it doesn't help with competition and having nicer affordable bikes on the market.... 😅

[@Eduardo_Espinoza]

Agreed, Bromptons are insanely expensive, much so that you'll get mugged in said city, defeating the purpose of a city folder. I've almost got mugged for my folder as well recently. & Stealing Bromptons is a thing. Also, I think the patents have expired, since dahon made there own version, & there're disc brake & carbon fiber versions out there.

[@SergeRychkov]

There are at least 3 companies that sell copies of Brompton bikes. Below are the video reviews: 1. Litepro kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXSpmYKwfNB_os0 2. 3Sixty kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqmQdGODZq9lgpI 3. Royale kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2HUqWScnNZ1gc0 I personally prefer Brompton, but there's market for everybody.

[@manu.yt25]

@@SergeRychkov Alright thanks, I will check those!

[@belverticale]

I tour on a folding bike - it is NOT a Brompton but much better suited to the task - 22-inch wheels with regular Shimano MTB hubs and DT Swiss spokes (32 per wheel), Fnhon Monsoon frame with double folding tubes for strength and no creaks (rather than the Bromptons single tube), it takes a normal drive chain so I have a 20-speed Shimano Tiagra with a nice wide range, Tern folding bike rear rack, two large rear panniers, stem extender for comfort, normal MTB flat bars with bar ends, comfy padded touring saddle, puncture proof tyres and hydraulic disc brakes. It doesn't fold as small as a Brommie but folds small enough (it fits into the trunk of a sedan car...the ultimate test). It's as comfy touring on as my full size touring bike in fact and I do about 100km a day. My recommendation is that you can absolutely tour on a folding bike but don't go with a Brommie, go with something with bigger wheels and that takes a regular drive chain and buy all the components yourself so you can make it 100% touring friendly.

[@Eduardo_Espinoza]

I've been thinking of getting one of those, was always suspicious of buying a custom looking bike for cheap, thought it was too good to be true deal

[@alexmorgan3435]

Bromptons are the best and most popular folding bike on the market for a reason. All the people who have bought them can't be wrong! The other also ran folders have so many compromises and their methods of folding are simply inferior. End of.

[@belverticale]

@@alexmorgan3435 yes the reason they are popular is urban commuting...at which they're great...not touring. Other folding bikes that take a conventional drive chain and larger wheels are more suited to touring...they just don't fold quite as small, which is not important within the context of touring.

[@clee6746]

A 18 to 20 inches wheel option will be a great feature to have.

[@ru54623]

For touring, Kinetics do a lovely front pannier rack that fits on the front block and will fit 2 front rollers perfectly, it also has a water bottle cage mount in the middle, very well made piece of kit, i wouldn't be without it.

[@Rick--A-F]

Riding a Brompton on the flat, or down hill is great fun thanks to it's sharp steering. Riding up hill isn't so much fun though which is why I sold mine as I live in a hilly area and just wanted to try one out.

[@Punkyrooster6]

Awesome video! I was about to sell my Brompton but this may add new life.

[@FunFreakeyy]

I would love a custom Brompton with beltdrive, Kindernay hub and bigger wheels but sadly the upgrades cost almost double the price ontop of the bike itself. Maybe someday that will be my last bike I'll buy and use it to the end of my life, then the price would be fine. A Vello bike with Alfine would be almost half the price, but they don't fold as small as Bromptons.

[@SlotCar2021]

You could buy another folding bike for half the cost of the Brompton. I got a 20 inch wheel, 8 speed, disc brake aly frame. I did consider a Brompton but glad I didn't. I would still like a go on a Brompton but 20 inch wheels and disc brakes are a must, rim brakes not a great option for all weather commuting.

[@FunFreakeyy]

@@SlotCar2021 Interesting, what bike are you talking about? Is it a "United Bike Trifold"?

[@ru54623]

If you want to cheaply lower the overall gearing of your brompton at little cost then SJS Cycles (UK) do a 110 BCD tapered crank which will allow down to a 33 tooth chainring, also, at the rear (for a 2 or 6 speed brompton) you can fit up to a 17t sprocket from a Shimano 7/8 speed cassette (choose a donor cassette that comes apart of course).

[@alexmorgan3435]

I think you would have to go with a much lower BCD crank ie 98 as I am using Brompton's std crank and the smallest front chain ring you can fit is a 38T if you can find one, but I already had a 39T Shimano Ultegra which I have fitted which lowers the gearing a lot compared to Brompton's way over geared spec with either a 50T or 44T front chain ring which are mental.

[@phatrickmoore]

cool bikes! and love the aftermarket action! I guess this is more possible since these bikes naturally disassemble. But a traditional bike is a single piece. Interesting :)

[@fredgaine1330]

I've owned a Kinetics built Brompton for a couple years now. It has 11 internal gears, belt drive and disc brakes. Favourite toy ever: I like it more than my road bike and other folding bike combined! I'd like to be able to fit big tyres on it so I don't get a puncture every time I hit a bit of gravel, but it looks like the only option is to change wheel size...

[@meera6024]

Very good to hear about your positive experience with the Kinetics build. I’m looking so this exact same build, but with 18inch Big Apple tyres.

[@mazditzo]

wow, that’s amazing sadly not for many of us 😂 yes I’m taking about the prices

[@TomatePasFraiche]

I had a Brompton for a while and as much as I wanted to love it, I think it's a terrible bike in its default configuration. Now as a portable tool for transport it's amazing and I used it to death but I was always scared to slip or hit the pedal on the floor when turning, I had to start putting my pedals horizontal in anticipation of turns (like on mountain trails haha) and those wheel were just getting flat at any opportunities. Hell a grain of salt could have punctured those... Anyway that's just my experience, I still think it's a great commute tool.

[@alexmorgan3435]

On any bike it is not a good idea to pedal when turning sharply as you risk pedal strike when leant over. This is basic bike handling skills to be a competent safe rider. In any case I have never ever experienced with my Brompton what you describe you experienced with yours.

[@TomatePasFraiche]

@@alexmorgan3435 to each his own, you specifically say "when turning sharply" but from my experience even not sharp turn in a city had to be made cautiously and even with the pedal horizontal I couldn't lean too too much in it. I stroke the floor many time with the brompton, and this never happened with any of my other 26+ inches wheels bikes on the same paths.

[@hobocyclist]

Love the Dutch mods But have to wonder why?,, ok so the best upgrade would be 20” wheel but then your brompton wont fold small so eliminates the point of brompton. Obviously 20” fb with 2.25 or 1.8-2.0 tyres with deraileur shimano or similar is best for touring, but use generic alu or steel frame fb from China you will save €5000, i like the brompton but why is the frame so good? Is it with it? Great video mate this is excellent original content 🔥

[@davidtomasi7450]

Brompton in the Apple for bikes, good but horribly overpriced

[@Peter-pu7bo]

Well but brompton are arrogant as f. You have do beg (register and what ever) them to be a chosen one who is allowed to buy one of there new titanium bikes....

[@wingcreator]

True, the bike is very light but pricy. Yet, have to enter a lottery draw to buy the bike?

[@huraibyel-huraiby7462]

Pro-tip: As soon as you buy your Brompton, buy replacement tyres. The ‘Marathon Racer’ tyres side walls are thinner than a party balloon. They will split and lead to puncture after puncture on London streets. I have replaced mine with ‘Marathon Racer Plus’ tyres. I have not had a puncture for 10 months and still going. The lesser tyres are a bit lighter and so the new Brompton on the sales floor is lighter. So, by Brompton spending less time n tyres they increase their sales. Makes economic sense of Brompton but not for the rider.

[@hoser7706]

Belt drive units on Pinions would be incredible. Probably be a $10K bike though. Lol. Why not just save money and get a Tern or Dahon offering these features some may seek? My Tern i(B7) s stiff, fast and inexpensive. Perhaps not as classy or small folding as a Brompton, it is still great and kept my walket full.

[@kayasper6081]

I am 6,6 inch tall and would be delighted by a model especially for taller riders, but neverthless I think the folded dimensions shouldn't be compromised for not any reason. The small package when folded is the main value of these excellent bikes and the most important reason to buy them. So in conclusion: keep them as small as possible when folded at any cost!

[@ultragorepictures883]

Brompton's are designed for short distances, not long comfortable long trips It designed for people that go to work with train and bus, the maximum Because Brompton's with 16 " inch wheels are so small they are allowed in train (even during rush hours) The bike in folded state cannot be bigger than 75 x 53 x 30 cm. These are the dimensions for handluage. I Brompton has 20 inch wheel the bike will be too big in folded state, exceeding these dimensions...

[@AdmV0rl0n]

Brompton bikes made in the UK. I'd never want one. The design looks old. Its a very compromised bike. I really like these aftermarket designs and ideas, but to me that only goes to underline that Bromptons current design and idea is in need of at least a range of modular forward moving design changes. By all means have a classic design - but they need to be moving on with modernisation and in a big way.

[@charlesblithfield6182]

A 35mm 16 inch tyre has a volume of about 257cubic inches. A 50mm 20 inch tire has a volume of 612 cubic inches about 2.4 times the volume. This can be much more comfortable.

[@scriptedhuman]

Weight is a huge factor for Bromptons, and internal hubs and pinion gears are super heavy.

[@laurielyon7740]

It appears there are several people who would like Brompton to be all things to all people. And of course that’s not possible. Brompton-the company and the bike-is what it is and their business model has worked extremely well for the company and for the people who enjoy the bike. To the ‘shoulda done this crowd’, please me know if you can locate a statue to a critic. Good luck.

[@FarFlungHeel]

Another option would simply be to buy a Bike Friday, which gives you various models in various sizes of road and trail folding bikes that can use any kind of road/mountain bike drivetrain (other than Pinion). I’m 6’5”/196cm and have nearly 20K comfortable touring & commuting kilometers on a BF that has 20” wheels, a frame size that is the equivalent of a 62cm top tube (and with a 130 stem) and a standard touring 3x9 drivetrain. Most of the BF models don’t fold as quickly and easily as a Brompton (though they do have one commuter model that does) but they’re far better equipped for touring or racing if that’s your thing, and they fold down well for travel in a standard size suitcase - mine has accumulated a lot of frequent flyer miles!

[@alexmorgan3435]

The fact that you are even trying to justify that a BF is better than a Brompton just shows you don't realise that the Brompton has the highest utility value of any folding bike because of it's unique folding mechanism. I would never ever buy any other folding bike as the fold compared to a Brompton is so inferior and not worth spending money on imho. I looked at and rode BF, Birdys, etc before I bought my Brompton and they were frankly rubbish.

[@FarFlungHeel]

@@alexmorgan3435 I did not assert that a BF is better than a Brompton. A BF was, though, a much better choice for me than a Brompton, and I provided some info about why in case that might be helpful to others. As pointed out in the video, Bromptons "one size fits all" approach doesn't fit well for those who are quite tall. I have ridden a Brompton and would never want to do so for more than a short commute. And that seems to me what they are designed for: they fold quickly and cleverly and are fine for short distances. They make great city bikes and there is good reason they are a popular choice for a city bike. I, however, was not focused on a "city bike", though I have used my BF for years of commuting in Tokyo. What I wanted was a road bike I could tour with in situations where exceeding 100KM in a day is routine, and that easily packed down for air travel. For that, and to have something to fit my height, the BF was a far better choice for me. For you and others, the Brompton may be the better choice. Vive la différence!