Cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia: The deep dive

[@aspectandeyesasmr6144]

Such valuable information on this topic! Thank you so much for this video. Virtually none of this information is generally available through medical practitioners whose first line of treatment for patients complaining of insomnia SHOULD be CBTi but instead is prescribing sleep medication!. Usually a person can only find the type of solid information presented here when they do search on their own for help. I found this video and am very grateful. I just started CBTi myself recently. This video filled in some gaps in my knowledge of the subject and I now feel more empowered to proceed toward my goal of successful sleep. When one feels empowered - more in control of a situation - it lessens the feeling of overwhelming helplessness that so often can accompany (and perpetuate!) insomnia and goes a long way toward increasing hope and the confidence in one's own ability to sleep, which is a VITAL component to successfully overcoming insomnia. That is an invaluable gift I got from this video. Thank you!

[@InsomniaCoach]

So glad you found the video helpful! It's so encouraging to read comments like this - thank you!

[@mrpeace7708]

Well said

[@robinm1059]

Great talks here folks, very insightful. I'v started to use some CBT-I techniques myself since a couple of weeks ago, and I've seen promising results so far. I'll definitely keep practising it. Thanks for putting together this talk, great help!

[@ODwyer65]

Knights of the CBTi roundtable

[@InsomniaCoach]

I'll wear my suit of armor at the next meeting - but I don't think the guys at coastfork.org will appreciate me riding in on my horse ;)

[@christinaruiz2835]

I’ve been told to do the sleep hygiene. I think it put more pressure on me than help me.

[@InsomniaCoach]

Unfortunately, we know that sleep hygiene isn't effective for people with chronic insomnia - so you definitely are not alone! I hope you found this video helpful, Christina!

[@dominic2446]

@@InsomniaCoach i have chronic insomnia. Is Somryst effective?

[@InsomniaCoach]

@@dominic2446 I don't have direct experience with that program but since it uses CBT-I techniques, it will likely be helpful if you have chronic insomnia.

[@lisbethmajchrowski8628]

You are right about contacting primary doctors about your cbti methods. However, let us know where we can go to cbti clinics. Thank you for your wellness passion!! Social Media definitely helps!!

[@PAHinCHGO]

Thanks!!! I saw a sleep specialist today, I'm starting tonight. Nervous but hopeful. I've watched this video twice, and I find it so helpful and reassuring. You guys rock.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Paul H. You’ll get there Paul!! It’s a forward looking process - just keep going and sleep will come your way. Stay in touch!

[@jacobtamkin6122]

I know it’s been a long time but how are you doing now?

[@PAHinCHGO]

I'm happy to say, I'm doing really well! Sleeping great most nights :-) @@jacobtamkin6122

[@jauhochang5030]

Love this talk here. Awesome guys, just awesome!

[@june8898]

You two have changed my life ☀️

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

This is so amazing to read!! Thanks a bunch for sharing 😁!!

[@antoniaperkins-cy2rz]

Hopefully this helps someone but i would get anxiety over sleep hygiene. I found it helpful to tell myself that it was ok if i didn't sleep but to just lay down and rest. It took so much pressure off of sleep and helped me calm down and go to sleep. I prayed and asked God to guide me and this is something he gave me insight to.

[@DT-5150]

I found CBTi in early 2018 when I had 2-3 months of waking up 2 or 3 hours early almost every night. It was very stressful but the therapy (I was lucky to find a local psychologist that offered the CBTi program) and the book Say Goodnight to Insomnia (which it’s all based on) educated me about sleep and it really helped. I started sleeping great in week 5-6. Slept great until a month ago. Now I am experiencing trouble getting to sleep. I’m doing everything (getting out of bed after 20-30 minutes of not being able to get to sleep, relaxation exercises, trying to eliminate negative sleep thoughts, no caffeine, no alcohol, keeping bedtime and wake time consistent, etc.) and I’m still struggling. I’ve revisited my CBTi counselor and we are going to work back through the program. I trust it will work again but it is frustrating how it just reoccurs for virtually no reason. I’m not stressed and I’m not worried about anything. But I guess it doesn’t matter why it is happening. I just have to stay positive and work the program.

[@gibememoni]

how are you doing now

[@booitsjohnny]

Idk, compared to other stories I've heard, is waking up 2-3 hours early every night really that bad? its not good, but you still got what, 4-6 hours of sleep a night? Most insomniacs get much, much less.

[@nildamarcelo5104]

I always keep a positive attitude

[@SashaStreams]

Not listening to any guided meditations, any sleep music, anything design to aid sleep has helped me but listening to this helped me to fall asleep 🙏 thank you sooo much! The bit about sleep naturally occurring and us only being able to do things to relax was so eye opening. Thanks again 🙏

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Sasha! So so glad reading these lines 😊 and you know it sounds so simple, but yet it often takes some courage to do nothing… so glad you found this courage and thanks much for sharing!!

[@SashaStreams]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 it's definitely a new way to look at things and it's true 🙏

[@mrpeace7708]

Thanks for this

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Mr Peace Anytime! Thanks much for the support 🤗

[@noperson78]

Excellent talk, super nice guys and it completely woke me to the truth about Insomnia. Cant thank enough!!

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Robert!! So glad to read these lines 😁 Thank YOU so much for this kind and supportive comment 🙏!

[@ItgirlAI]

At 1:27:49-50 ish~recommend what? GREAT information, TY 😴 💤

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Thanks Kimberly!! That’s where Martin talks about how we need to change the current practice and get primary care physicians to refer for CBTi... that’s so true, there should be access and there’s so much opportunity for change right at that moment when someone tells their doctor they have trouble sleeping.. One day we’ll get there!! Have a good one Kimberly and thanks so much for taking the time to comment!!

[@ItgirlAI]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thank YOOUU! I can sleep a bit better tonight! 😉💤

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Anytime!! Thanks for being here!

[@georginarandolphgirl66]

I am a night owl and also have depression and anxiety disorder and take medication but I still have trouble falling asleep and staying asleep. I work evenings thankfully. I had a full hysterectomy over 8 years ago but I have been on bioidentical hormones for over a year. My antidepressant is suppose to help with sleep but it doesn't. I sometimes have to take anxiety medication to give me the extra nudge to go to sleep.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Georgina, I’m sorry to hear about the struggle but glad you’re here. And you know, if you check the This is Natto playlist you’ll find a video on the gas & brake model. This can be helpful to study because so often insomnia is driven by trying to find out why it happens (why don’t antidepressants help? Is it the hormones? Is it my circadian rhythms?). When we no longer wonder why, and don’t attempt to control sleep… then we find peace of mind and peaceful sleep

[@SashaStreams]

Focusing on sleep hygiene and mastering that, with the belief that; if I do it well enough I should be able to sleep, has been making me a lot worse.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

It’s so unfortunate that there’s so much misinformation out there… but so fortunate that you saw this 😊

[@SashaStreams]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 very, thank you 😊

[@antoniaperkins-cy2rz]

Tell yourself that it’s ok if i don't sleep im just going to lay down and rest. Continue with that thought and just talk to yourself and repeat to yourself that it’s ok if i dont sleep, just resting will be ok. It really helps me with the anxiety.

[@lisbethmajchrowski8628]

Yes let the insurance companies know about your cbti clinics, please !!

[@sedg1212]

another amazing video

[@miavanessa8103]

Best collab 👍

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Thanks Mia!!

[@terrymunn1224]

I have been diagnosed with anxiety approximatly 5 weeks ago and sleep prior to that i slept pretty well.Currently I am having trouble staying asleep more than a few hrs .I can fall asleep but wake up in a couple hours and im sweaty (probably due to anxiety which is fueled....well i cannot sleep)I just lay there and think.would you suggest getting out of bed and reading or something until i get sleepy.My concern is i may be sitting up the remainder of the night.

[@sophiawidmer5415]

I’m 16 years old. And recently I’ve been having the worst sleep troubles for the past few weeks. It got so bad that I wouldn’t sleep for a whole night and then sleep 10 hours the next night. It all began the night before my drivers test. I got so very nervous that I did an all-nighter, which then kick started my sleep problems. School for me started back up for me two weeks ago. I don’t know if I was just being scared to see kids my age in person you know. But I was so nervous that I woke up at 4 am multiple times the first week of school. After that I kept anticipating waking up at that time that I kept worrying about it. I went to the doctor and they prescribed this medication which I’ve been taking the past 2 days. It was a huge mistake, I feel depressed and like a zombie. Tonight I’m not going to take it. I just keep worrying about sleep over and over again about sleep.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Sophia, very sorry to hear this but glad you found the channel. What you share here is something many will recognize, and it’s often actually helpful if medications don’t “work” because one can easily get into more trouble the more things you try. Check out theses playlists and I think you’ll be back on track soon: This is natto - the perfect place to start learning! kzbin.info/aero/PL6RQ1GS7B1cik8Xr8iVdxmKB9FYieevYj Success stories - if you need hope and inspiration, this is for you. kzbin.info/aero/PL6RQ1GS7B1cj68v9hdoXYv_fpOR65oI3U Hang in there!

[@Dolce916]

Incredibly knowledgeable information, thank you and God bless! Can you guys tackle insomnia caused by Covid as a long hauler symptom. It’s so new and most doctors say sleep hygiene of course. Will CBT-I work since the virus enters the brain blood barrier....

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Anytime!! And you know, viruses and thousands of things can disrupt our sleep, but they can’t cause insomnia. Because insomnia is when fear of being awake keeps you from sleeping, and only thoughts can produce this. You may have some discomfort and disrupted sleep with a virus, but it doesn’t cause insomnia!

[@Dolce916]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 that’s exactly right now that I’ve been researching more through your channel the root thought was the fear of not being able to breathe that initially disrupted my sleep. I have found so much peace, confidence and freedom through your awareness. I’m letting it go, letting sleep come. Forever grateful! Thank you so much. How may I support your channel?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Soo glad reading this IZ 😁 You’ve already seen things with clarity, this is remarkable! You’ve already supported the channel with these nice comments! If you would like to, you can buy one of my books or... wait in a week or so until we will have t-shirts and hoodies 😁 Oh and telling people, that’s actually what helps the most!! Be well now IZ and be in touch!!

[@donaldstokes.3014]

Great conversation.What do you do if someone seems to have anxiety and it’s related to high cortisol levels especially at night fight or flight mode.Thanks Don.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Donald Stokes. Newcastle upon Tyne UK. Hi Don and welcome to the channel! Very good question. It’s fight or flight that’s driving insomnia at some level in almost everyone. Now how do you reduce that response? One important insight is that it can’t be tackled head on. If someone tries to use meditation with the specific intent to reduce fight or flight then it just causes more attention to the problem of anxiety. It’s actually the core CBTi techniques that are the most effective. I’ll reply at length tonight or tomorrow in Ask Daniel 23 - thanks!!

[@donaldstokes.3014]

Insomnia insight thanks for your reply,look forward to hearing more.Don

[@eggnoy]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 hello..thanks for ur efforts in spreading cbti.. May i knw where to find ur response to this question?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Eggnoy and welcome to the channel! You know what that reply ended up in Ask Daniel 24 , here: m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/a3Sse4RnZ81oj6M Let me know if you have any questions and do stay in touch!!

[@sarahernandez2153]

Thank you very much for this very helpful and informative discussion. I just have one question. Apart from sleep apnea, i have read/heard that there might be other medical conditions that could cause sleep problems/insomia such as hyperthyroidism and so on. How do you know that CBT-i could be effective if there could be some health issues?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Sara! I would say this - many things including health conditions can disrupt your sleep, but when you are spending hours awake at night, wondering why you can't sleep, trying to find a remedy... the only thing that causes that is insomnia (meaning when thoughts/worries are why you're not sleeping). I think CBTi or any teaching that leads you towards understanding and towards acceptance and trying less, this will truly help regardless of where your sleep troubles come from!

[@nildamarcelo5104]

I just started CBT-I week 1 and I like it because of no pills/ supplement and I am looking to have a restorative and restful nights ahead

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Nilda, Those are really nice things with education.. and you know, since we made this video, I’ve come to see that the traditional CBTi approach can be tricky with lots of rules. If you want to see a gentler way then you can check our playlist This is Natto which is in the description of any new video. Rooting for you!

[@louiseholborow2192]

Thank you for fascinating talk. Is it possible to do cbti from a book or is it better to try and find a coach?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Louise and thanks for the comment! I know this may sound odd but I want to share what I really believe…since we recorded this video, I have come to believe that there are some problems with traditional CBTi, namely a focus on behavior changes that imply that you can control sleep… so many on this channel tried Cbti and didn’t find it helpful. If you browse these below playlists, I think you’ll learn a lot that will clarify my ideas… and you may not need a book nor a coach!! This is natto - the perfect place to start learning! kzbin.info/aero/PL6RQ1GS7B1cik8Xr8iVdxmKB9FYieevYj Success stories - if you need hope and inspiration, this is for you. kzbin.info/aero/PL6RQ1GS7B1cj68v9hdoXYv_fpOR65oI3U This said, if you would like to try cbti, it’s not complicated! For example the book ”You can sleep too” by Joseph Pannell is great (but much of it autobiography just so you know) and there’s the classic “Say Goodnight to insomnia”. If you’d like to work with a coach, Martin Reed who is in this video imho is doing amazing work using CBTi inspired ways but with what often is missing - tons of common sense and most importantly, a genuine intent and desire to help!!

[@louiseholborow2192]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 I really appreciate your getting back to me Daniel with your advice and links, Already feel so much better and everything you say (natto) makes perfect sense. Have learnt so much in just a few hours of listening to you and reassured that your talks are all there on utube as continued education and support. Many many thanks, I feel hopeful at last. Louise

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Louise, this made me so glad to read! You know I never want to overwhelm someone who’s new to the channel, so I’m really happy to see it all made sense to you. Thanks for the encouragement and kind words, welcome again and hope you have really nice weekend!!

[@TheMichelebode]

You fellows are incredible. Great information and presented in a very relaxed and comfortable setting. I am in my second round of sleep restriction and doing very well. My first attempt was for 2 weeks in January 2019. It didn’t go well. I had so very little information about CBTI which proved to be a problem. I am now in week 7 or 8 and am having amazing results. Thank you so very much. Knowledge is power.

[@InsomniaCoach]

This is wonderful to hear - thank you so much for sharing, Michele! I have no doubt that your comment will help inspire others who may have tried CBT-I unsuccessfully in the past to give it another shot.

[@ODwyer65]

Michele Bode perhaps you could expand upon your story and let us know what didn’t work at first and what has worked for you now? That would be really great to hear. Glad you’re doing so well.

[@TheMichelebode]

@@ODwyer65 do you have an email account that I could respond to?

[@ODwyer65]

Michele Bode youtu.be/addme/25ftzUAXT934D9mqTwNLXLIRmJabAw

[@markayao3850]

all you guys is like an angle send from above to help people with insomnia

[@fantasticsituation9461]

also wanted to ask: is it ok to meditate after getting out of bed when practising stimulus control?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Anything you do without intent, anything that makes it more ok to be awake is great! Anything done with intent of producing sleep on the other hand makes you have more trouble sleeping!

[@rafaelcardona8377]

How about somniphobia (fear of falling to sleep). CBTI will help?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

RAFAEL CARDONA Hi Rafael and thanks for this comment! I think if someone is dreading bedtime and the night, CBTi is perfect. If someone is literally afraid of the process of falling asleep I would need to know more. What specifically is this person afraid of? Is it that sudden awareness of falling asleep? Is it jerks? Is it fear of losing control?

[@rafaelcardona8377]

​@@thesleepcoachschool8192Thank you for your interest. The story is kind of weird. Around 7 to 8 years ago I had a disagreement with my neighbor and he went verbally angry at me because I was making to much noise in a construction I was making close to his house, it was around 5:30 in the afternoon. I keep my cool and silence and agree with him that he was wright. Any way I am kind of a craftsman as a hobby and sometimes I make noises (not as big as the one I was making that day) and I though well maybe I am going to have to quit my hobby. I use to meditate and that day I was very tranquil like the coolest of my meditations. But normally I have the tendency to be in the offensive (meaning that I would not take any verbal or physical attack at me without an answer). But that day, like I said I was very tranquil but maybe thinking that I was not assertive enough. Also I used to use Paxil 25mg and I had quitted it cold turkey a week before. Any way going to the main point, two days after the event I went to bed and started to think about the control I had over sleep and after realizing that, in an irrational way I gave power to that simple conclusion I got chronic insomnia since (when I got sleepy it come to me this anxiety that take me out of my way to sleep) . To went back to my normal sleep pattern I had to take Klonopin 1mg or Flurozepam 30mg with Paxil 25mg for 2 to 3 month until only the Paxil was enough to calm my anxiety to sleep (I had quitted Paxil before without any bad effect but this time I think the event was to traumatic). Since then I had quitted Paxil 25mg and every pill in two occasions in both of them I lasted around two and a half month without any medication and sleeping fairly god but after the two and a half month I have some traumatic situation that I have to go trough the same solution ( first 2016 time klonopin or flurazepam and Paxil) (second time 2019 Trazodone 50 to 200mg plus klonopin 1mg Trazodone 200mg by itself was effective but I had to quit it because I felt to weak and with some kind of hallucinations after waking up). Right now I am with Tenazepan 30mg and Paxil 25mg since 10/22/2019 around 5 month without been able to quit Tenazepan 30mg and be only with Paxil 25mg and sleep well. I have tried meditation accepting my anxiety and maybe 1 or 2 times had worked but is very hard. I have tried breathing. I have tried guided meditation (from a woman voice is more pleasant to me) but only two times, I have not tried more because the fear it wont be successful. This is my story more or less of course I suffer depression and anxiety since 10 to 12 years ago (I am 65 years old). I visit a psychologist, he once told me about sleep restriction but not with the structure you and your bodies have explained in the video. Also go to a psychiatrist she just give me medications. I just told you part of my story but there are more emotional variables and details. I which I could work my situation with CBTI and other problems with CBT. Thank you very much for your attention and hoping the best for everyone that have this situation.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

RAFAEL CARDONA Hi Rafael and thanks for sharing. Sorry to hear about this conflict that triggered so much sleep issues. Reading your comment, I do believe CBTi could help you. What you describe sounds very similar to other stories of how insomnia started. I’ll reply at length tonight in Ask Daniel #17! Best Daniel

[@rafaelcardona8377]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thank you very much.

[@vt7189]

I had Insomnia and doing CBT-i now. Progress seems very slow. Your video does explain that it needs patience. I have a question which I hope you could provide some insight. I saw from a couple youtube videos from someone who has cured their insomnia, they did some type of radical method. They said don't sleep for 36 hrs and then your sleep drive would be so high that you would sleep for 8 hours. I tried to Google that method but could not find much information besides from the 2 KZbin videos from 2 completely different people. Do you think that method would work?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi VT and welcome to the channel! I think there is a lot that can be helpful in this video, but I want to share with you that I have actually started moving away from a lot of the traditional CBT teachings. Check out these two playlists, I think they will be really helpful! This is natto - the perfect place to start learning! kzbin.info/aero/PL6RQ1GS7B1cik8Xr8iVdxmKB9FYieevYj Success stories - if you need hope and inspiration, this is for you. kzbin.info/aero/PL6RQ1GS7B1cj68v9hdoXYv_fpOR65oI3U Now to answer your question, what you are referring to is what is called wake therapy or intensive sleep retraining. I have come across a few people who tried it, and nobody has actually found it helpful. The reason is for the same reason that sleep restriction often isn’t helpful. It is true that the longer we are awake, the more the body needs to sleep. The sleep drive does increase with wakefulness. But remember, there is a brake pedal in her sleep system as well which is hyper arousal. That’s brake pedal is there for safety reasons, we are not supposed to sleep when it is not safe. The tricky thing with insomnia is that the brain is confused and he thinks that it is not safe to be awake at night so it triggers the brake pedal because it is afraid of being awake. It is literally like the brain is making you awake because it’s afraid that you’ll be awake at night! All right now let’s go back to the subject here- when somebody forces themself to stay awake for a long time, that can make them more sleepy but it also makes them feel more pressured to sleep so they don’t sleep even though their sleepy! And this is exactly what happens with this extreme therapy. Somebody has been awake for 36 hours and they have force themselves to be awake and they finally finally finally allowed to sleep, but guess what? Now they are so anxious that they still don’t sleep! So no I don’t think this is helpful at all. I think it is like diets, if you choose an extreme diet, you can only do it for a little while. But if you do a lifestyle change you can do it forever. So I think it’s helpful to do something like get up at for example 6 AM and stop checking the time at for example 10:30 PM or something like that. And in addition to this of course learn about sleep so there’s no confusion. Okidoki hope this made sense and welcome to the channel, please let us know how things go and whenever you have a question of course!

[@23BronJames]

Hi Daniel, unfortutanley have been having trouble again with sleeping. I'm not really anxious cause I am well educated because of you ,but obviously it is not a pleasant experience to be not sleeping. I'm thinking about working locally with a CBT-i therapist but I know you dont really teach that anymore. Just confused on what to do. I haven't been sleeping well for a few months now. I saw progress earlier in the year but not to the point where it was completely resolved so I really need to take care of this problem.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Ernest, Sorry to hear this but glad you’re here… thanks for being in touch. I’m also glad that you’re not anxious thanks to all the learning you’ve been willing to do 👍 I think there are so many great options Ernest, you can always try to work with a local therapist and see where this leads you. Who knows maybe it will teach you something you didn’t expect! You can post questions here and in Open class. There is a growing list of coaches that would love a chance to work with you. But most of all I would say that although it’s not easy, when we see that problem solving is the problem, and we see that learning about ourselves and abandoning problem solving is is what leads to peace…then the residual struggle you have can become something you look at a residual opportunity to learn and grow… But yes do let me know if you want pointers to someone to work with and again, thanks for all the support and being in touch!

[@23BronJames]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Is there any chance that we can work together?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Of course! I am on call in the Immunity program every other week, I don’t do 1:1 coaching any more but I’m moderating our Slack channel and drop in classes. If this works for you I’d be super glad to work with you!!

[@23BronJames]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Yeah I’ve just been overly obsessing and paying closest attention to my sleep again which obviously doesn’t help:/. It’s really affecting my mood and my brain. Feel more and more foggy this longer this continues

[@23BronJames]

I think I will enroll

[@James-mk8jp]

What is chronotype relative to? Matthew Walker mentioned that it’s mostly in our DNA, but relative to what? Light exposure? How does this work with time zones? For example, he mentions that even for a night owl, 4am bed time misses out on some prescheduled deep sleep. But doesn’t this depend on light exposure schedule? What if my 4am is someone else’s 9pm? If chronotype is relative to light exposure, I would think that could be the case, but the way it’s talked about makes it seem not the case?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Cameron! Thanks for asking and I’ll share some thoughts here that I hope will help. Firstly though, Matthew Walker’s book Why we sleep has come into a lot of questioning after an essay by Alexey Guzey. Something that you may want to check out if anything from Walker’s work has made you worried! Now, I believe it’s true that some of us humans prefer going to bed/rising early and some late. There’s literature saying that this preference is genetic, familial, and why wouldn’t it be! If both your parents were night owls, no surprise or you are too. If one of them is, well then maybe you inherited that trait. It’s just like so many other aspects of life, we are all different. Some of us like to stay at home, some like to travel. Some like spicy food, some don’t. Now, the question becomes, to what degree does your preference determine how well you sleep? Probably not that much, and it has nothing to do with insomnia! To clarify this last point, insomnia is when the fear of not sleeping keeps us from sleeping well, and chronotype has no impact on how we think about sleep! It’s also important to know what we are flexible! We can move from Iceland to Chile and adapt to a completely new schedule. Regardless of our sleep timing preference, we have flexibility in our circadian system. This is als why we can work shifts. Someone who is a night owl may not love working early morning shifts, but they can do this and still enjoy work and love life! Sooo many other factors in life matter much much more than where we can sleep at our preferred timing. And sometimes there are surprises. Someone who thought for years that they were a night owl start enjoying the morning, and vice versa. So in summary I would say chronotypes are a real thing, but they have little impact on sleep and life in themselves! In other words, light exposure, chronotype, clock time you sleep, time zones, DNA… all these can have some impact, but not nearly as much impact as wondering whether light exposure, chronotype, clock time you sleep, time zones and DNA are important or figuring out how they relate!! When it comes to insomnia a helpful formula is: X isn’t the culprit, wondering about X is!

[@James-mk8jp]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thanks for the response! I wasn't too worried about the chronotype relating to insomnia (though I'm sure me commenting on this specific video begs to differ), I'm more-so trying to gauge what bedtime to aim for if I'm already "fixing my circadian rhythm." In the past, I'd just stay up until I was too tired to keep my eyes open, but that time kept creeping later and later until it hit 7-8am and going to bed in daylight became harder to do, if that makes sense. TL;DR I know that I'm a night owl, but it's not clear to me when a night owl should aim to go to bed, if there is such a recommended time.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Oh got it! You know, this is very common when we don’t have any morning obligations. This is actually the very pattern that happens to most people that have no zeitgebers. If you put a bunch of people in a bunker, they start sleep/waking later and later and later. Now, the circadian rhythm is very flexible, so for most people it makes sense to pick a rise time and then just have that as the anchor. At first it may be tricky because you’re not sleepy before let’s say 4 am and you decided to get up 8 am. But after some time; with a consistent rise time, the body adjusts…. There’s really imho no ideal time, the attempt at finding the ideal time to sleep I think can create some preoccupation, it not insomnia!

[@anteb.k.8396]

As I'm looking all over youtube for CBT for insomnia and I find it really logical and worth trying, nevertheless, I realised that for tracking my sleep for deciding how to do the right amount of sleep restriction I should track my going to bed time and going to sleep time... now, if it's best for me not to look at the clock to not induce further sleep anxiety, how can I know when was the time I fell asleep at a given night? Especially if I couldn't sleep and got up two times and then finally fell asleep.. I just don't know how to calculate that and should I bother with it? Or should I just restrict my sleep and see how it goes in one week and than gradually add more time for sleep? Thanks!

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Ante, thanks so much for commenting here! I know Martin has a bit of a different approach, you can tag him here or check on his platform what he thinks, but here’s my thinking: I do think a timeless sleep window is the most helpful. And you’ve identified a tricky thing with traditional CBTi. It to me boils down to the intent with the sleep window. The sleep window is really there simply as a nudge towards less attachment. It is a way to sort of make yourself try less and let go of attempts at controlling sleep. There is often confusion about the main purpose. In traditional CBT there’s a lot of emphasis on making yourself stay awake for a long time so you feel sleepy. It is true that sleep drive is important, but anything you do to make yourself sleep becomes an effort! This includes making yourself stay up late! Remember, insomnia is not a problem of not being sleepy, it is a problem of trying too much to sleep. So the way to think of the sleep window is that it is simply a nudge in the direction of trying less. When you give yourself less time for sleep, and you no longer know the time at night, these again are important psychological steps towards trying less, being willing to have less control. What exact time you get up or what exact time you go to bed doesn’t really matter! What does matter is not focusing too much on the time. It’s also important to set it and forget it. Decide upon sometime and then don’t question it. This will free your mind to think about more pleasant things! In fact what also helps a lot is not knowing the time at night. Deciding what time to get up in the morning and then making a decision to stop checking the time at a certain time in the evening. Not knowing the time is a very powerful way of letting go of control! Finally, I think it’s important to be generous and to go a gentle path of no pressure. Is very tempting to say that you will have a very narrow sleep window so that you feel really sleepy and then you reach your goal faster. But that’s a way of pressure! Think about when people try to lose weight. The reason most people don’t do well is because they choose an extreme diet that they can’t stick to for more than a few weeks. It’s the same with sleep windows. Many people choose a really tight window and then they become frustrated and pressured because it’s not something they can do forever. If someone decides not to do a diet but rather change their lifestyle to something they can do forever, then there’s no pressure! Then they lose weight easily. If you choose a sleep window that’s for example 7 hours, that’s pretty close to what most people do anyway so you can do that indefinitely. That’s the way!

[@anteb.k.8396]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thank you for such a thorough answer! I do think the sleep restriction is important, because even if I slept just 3 hours the day before and I go to bed at 10 pm I'm still mostly lying in bed awake for hours.. I will restrict the time from 1 am to 7 am and see how it goes and not stay in bed for too long if I'm still not sleeping. Hopefully regular wake up time and not napping during the day will help!

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Anytime! I definitely think that it helps if you’ve been spending like 10 h in bed and napping too to change this! But just keep in mind, sleeping better always comes from a place of peace. So when sleep happens, it’s true that if you’re more sleepy, it happens a bit easier, but if you think you have to “force sleep” by staying up real late, then you may end up never feeling entirely free, feeling as if you have to manage sleep. But yes, I think this sounds great! Let us know his things go 👍👍!

[@RUDEMASTER]

I have been posting on my family n friends social media who I know have trouble sleeping 😴 im trying to get the world out ..I myself have improved...but I still have some nights where it throws me a curve ball..I did wanna ask about sleep apnea?...I do know its different...but what is your take on it?? do u have a video on it??

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Rudy and thanks for all the support! Good idea, I’ll post a video on this next week. Briefly, with sleep apnea you typically have these brief awakenings and 0 emotional component. There’s no pondering. With insomnia you have a struggle! There’s a struggle with sleep, there’s emotions, there’s wondering what’s happening. There are longer periods of wakefulness at night. That’s the gist of it, I’ll expand in video! Thanks!

[@RUDEMASTER]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Many people were asking me about this? that's why I thought I bring it to your attention but thanks much appreciated

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

It’s a good one!!

[@brigittalandl9268]

Hi!ive started CBTi 3 days ago and it causes so much stress that i sleep worse than before. My original problem was waking up at night and couldnt go back sleep but now i am so stressed that i cant even fall asleep. What should i do? Continue or stop the whole thing? Thanks :)

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Brigitta, I think looking at our newer content, like the This is Natto playlist can really help. Link in description of any new video

[@Muscleguy34]

Where can I start on the CBT (Insomnia)? I have been suffering insomnia last 10 months but it’s become serve last 1 month where last 4 days I only slept 5.5 hrs and the feeling is horrible.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Stan, I know this can be a little bit confusing but since I made this video, I have started to see that CBT perhaps isn’t the best way when you have trouble sleeping. If you’d like to learn more about what I think now, you can check this playlist below. kzbin.info/aero/PL6RQ1GS7B1cik8Xr8iVdxmKB9FYieevYj This playlist and just spending some more time here may be all you need to arrive at a place where you’re not struggling at all anymore. If you would like to try CBT however, I think nobody does it better than Martin Reed. Just google him and you’ll find his program! Hang in there, glad you found the channel and hope you’ll find a lot of help here. Be well and be in touch!

[@shenn032002]

Psychologists aren't trained on CBT-I and most don't know what it is. Also, most psychologists aren't trained much about sleep in general.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

This is a big problem... really everyone in physical/mental health should know at least just the basic principle that the more you try the less you get. And then have an avenue to refer to someone who does understand!

[@jovale7521]

Hi Daniel. Can I email you a quick question? Thanks!

[@kristituci4849]

I dont know but when i am strest about somthing i sleep at night fore 8 - 9 haurs wake up and at 6 pm i feel chest pain and sleepy eyes .please help i need someone why know something about this .

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Kristi, Sorry to hear this but glad you’re here. You know, episode 322 may help… in that episode we talk about the reason behind so so many things we experience

[@kristituci4849]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you for the respond but why i sleep soo mutch and feel tired and this cause me heart pain too . Please can you help me ?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Anytime Kristi, And you know, no medical advice here (!) but I’ll say that when we feel tired even after sleeping much, it often means the fatigue has nothing to do with sleep and that there are other reasons we are unrefreshed. - When you sleep ok, there’s no obvious problem when it comes to your sleep but you just never feel refreshed, it can often help to simply see that often how we feel daytime isn’t depending on how we sleep. This can sound disappointing because naturally you want to find something to improve so that you feel refreshed, and sleep seems like a logical place to start. But often trying to control sleep quality, which we have no control over, just leads to frustration and trouble sleeping and feeling no more refreshed. But what really can help is to look at two different types of fatigue. There are in principle two forms of fatigue. One is the straightforward feeling of fatigue that you have when you have run a half marathon. It behaves in a very predictable way. You rest, you sit down, you don’t do much, and you feel rested! Then we have the type of fatigue that behaves more like an emotion. You can think of it as emotional fatigue. It is a heavier feeling from within. This is feeling drained and exhausted as if you have no energy no matter what you do or how much you sleep. This feeling comes from the same place insomnia comes from, wanting to get away from discomfort. With insomnia, the more we try to escape the fear of a perceived threat, the more fear we have. And emotional fatigue acts like this as well. The more you try to figure out why you are so tired, the more you think you are disproportionately tired or “too” tired and that something is wrong with you, the more you want it to go away the more sticky it becomes! On the other hand, when you recognize that you are tired but you don’t think that you shouldn’t be, because you know where the fatigue comes from, and you also allow yourself to be tired then things will change. It’s in a way a form of self-compassion to not criticize oneself for feeling tired. And just like when you are no longer trying to make yourself calm this leads to peace of mind, when you’re no longer pushing yourself or doing things to be less tired, when you sit with it without judgement, you experience that emotional fatigue much less. - Heart pain, I would say always check with your doctor when you’re worried about health. Generally speaking - when we are feeling worried, we often notice discomfort and pain that was there other times as well but our attention and fear amplify the sensations…

[@kristituci4849]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you it means a lot to me .

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

You got it 😊

[@roncurtis224]

I don’t have a problem falling asleep, but I only sleep for three hours, wake up and then I cannot go back to sleep. Do you have a video or other material regarding this problem?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Ron! You know, this is a common question and there’s often an idea that one type of insomnia requires a specific intervention. In reality, all insomnia comes from the same place. Here’s a reply that I use when someone first had trouble falling asleep and then staying asleep or vice versa. - It is actually very common to first have trouble falling asleep and then not have trouble falling asleep but having trouble staying asleep. Or the opposite. Going from having no trouble falling asleep but trouble staying asleep too having trouble falling asleep but not staying asleep. When this type of switch happens it can be concerning because it can seem like you can never get to a place where you don’t struggle at all, you’ll either have trouble falling asleep or trouble staying asleep. What can be concerning because it seems like something has changed. In reality, there isn’t any difference between having trouble falling asleep or trouble staying asleep. Both come from hyperarousal. Both come from a place where a brain has started to become afraid of being awake at night. And both go away when you teach it that there’s nothing to be afraid of! Now something that is really in your favor is that you’ve already seen how either trouble falling asleep or trouble staying asleep goes away when you learn about sleep and you teach the brain that there’s nothing to fear. Having seen the magic of education and being courageous, you can see how if you approach any trouble with sleep the same way, the struggle will end and you’ll have neither trouble falling or staying asleep! - Now this said, what to do? I think checking this playlist will answer a lot of questions! This is natto - the perfect place to start learning! kzbin.info/aero/PL6RQ1GS7B1cik8Xr8iVdxmKB9FYieevYj The short version of the playlist is that when we befriend wakefulness, then there’s no more struggle!

[@ted1091]

The thing about insomnia/sleep, is that it's not "one size fits all." What works for one person, won't work for someone else. Also, I didn't hear anyone talk about apneal events. All of these things - from caffeine to daylight exposure - have to be discussed and factored into the equation, but the results will be different for everyone.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi! Welcome to the channel and thanks for sharing these thoughts here 😊 I think things are often so tricky in the sleep world because sleep requires nothing! It’s only when we look for something to work that there can be some struggle. Well, actually one thing is required which is a need for sleep aka sleep drive. The gas In the sleep system. And looking for something that works can create hyperarousal, then brake in the sleep system. But how about apnea, medical conditions etc etc? It is true that things other than sleep drive and hyperarousal (gas and brake) have an impact on sleep. In fact, thousands of things impact our sleep! How much protein you had yesterday, whether you floss or not, the brand of toothpaste you like, if you’re right handed or left-handed, what do you like sugar in your tea or lemon, all have some impact. The question is how much? Perhaps if you eat more carbohydrates you sleep one minute less. And if you have Diet Coke instead of Diet Pepsi, you may sleep 38 seconds more. But the thing is, none of the above really matters. A few seconds in this or that direction doesn’t matter! Whether you drink Diet Coke or Diet Pepsi doesn’t matter - but if you think about it and worry about and ponder it, well that matters a lot! Another way of saying this is X isn’t the problem, thinking about X is. Now what about medical conditions though? It is true that conditions such as medical conditions or mental health challenges can affect your sleep. In fact almost anything can have some impact on your sleep! But the only thing that keeps you awake for hours wondering why you’re not asleep, the only thing that keeps you trying things to see if you can sleep better, the only thing that creates that struggle and the pondering and the confusion and the frustration is insomnia. And insomnia caused by thoughts. It’s caused by this confusion in the brains safety system that being awake at night is a threat. So what if you have both insomnia and a condition that affects your sleep. Of course it makes sense to talk to your doctor about the condition and make sure it’s optimally treated. This can help! But learning about sleep and understanding your own mind he’s really the only thing that can get past the insomnia. This is what truly makes a difference! Ted, just sharing some thoughts here! Again thanks for being here and be in touch!

[@johnmcclane2401]

ty

[@thesii213]

How would you all feel about a reddit AMA? I know there'd be considerable interest in one, although it's sometimes tough to tell how well attended an AMA will be.

[@thesii213]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Sure! I'm not a moderator, but I think you'd be a perfect fit for the r/insomnia community. It can be a bit morose at times (as we all can sometimes be when we haven't slept in a while), but given the wealth of content on your channel I don't think anyone in their right mind would turn you down. I'll ask around and see if I can set something up!

[@thesii213]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Hey Daniel! I think we can make an AMA happen. What's a good day for you?

[@thesii213]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192That sounds like it should work! I haven't been able to reach a mod just yet, but there's little to no reason why they would turn you down. They generally only get frustrated when people make an account to advertise a product and then disappear. Although fair word of warning! The insomnia subreddit is often a place where people come to vent frustrations and sometimes that's directed at the medical establishment. I hope that doesn't happen, but it's something to keep in mind! Thanks again. I'll keep you posted!

[@gil-evens]

22:30 - 1:00:00

[@fantasticsituation9461]

hi daniel, i am bipolar and every time i start to feel better/good i end up not being able to sleep because my mind is too active. what should i do?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi there! You know, it’s really when we try to make the mind less active that the opposite happens! Check out episode 339, I think it will help!!

[@LilianaSimental-u7e]

Ok wow so a lot of your descriptions of people with insomnia involves a lot of ability in these people to feel sleepiness and even able to nap throughout the day. I have zero sleepiness even though get maybe an hour of sleep everyday. I have used these cbti techniques but it just makes it easier to not fall asleep throughout the night and during the day as well. It’s just so easy for me not to fall asleep and seems to have nothing to do with my thoughts since I don’t think anything at all good or bad. My insomnia started because my doctor thought it would be a good idea to treat my long Covid with lexapro. Horrible idea by that idiot as it made me feel debilitating fatigue, nausea and what’s now severe insomnia. I noticed a lot of people complain about only getting 4 or 5 hours of sleep yet on a good day I get 3. Guess not all insomnia is a behavioral/stimulus problem.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Liliana, You are right that the insomnia experience is different from person to person. But there are many who don’t feel any sleepiness and don’t fall asleep during the day. If you spend a little time on this channel and you check the talking Insomnia episodes, I think you’ll find things that can be really helpful.

[@SomosLaNuevaEra]

L O V E ❤️

[@coffeechocolate7364]

I work night shift and it is killing me...🥺

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi C&C, night shift is tough... this said, there’s definitely a difference between struggling with time change and struggling with time change + fear of being awake! If you have that fear of being awake, feeling like you’ve lost control, insomnia in other words, then what you learn on this channel can help minimize the trouble to only that which comes from night shifts... Hope this helps and be in touch!

[@MrWaterbugdesign]

1:09:00 Bingo. Listening to you all I kind of heard a lot of red flags of speaking in absolutes. This all sounded more about your feelings and less about science. This is a problem throughout human thinking. Imo we have a very poor understanding of sleep. Many professional sounding talk but looking hard at what they're saying and it's a lot of opinion. I get sleep is really hard to study, but that shouldn't mean we substitute what we feel is the next best thing, personal opinion based on experience. Unfortunately this also means you completely disagreed. And here we are.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Water Bug, and thanks for this comment. I agree with you that it’s very helpful not to speak in absolutes.. and I’m trying to be more and more mindful of this... Talking in absolutes can easily make people pressured which does not lend itself or sleeping well.. And I hope one day we will have a very clear understanding that there is consensus around so that nobody struggles with sleep.. In the meantime, I try to learn from everyone and you’ve taught me many important things today... I hope you will be well this new year and please stay in touch. /Daniel

[@AndrewHedlund100]

Bottom line is we don’t live anything like we are designed to the smart phones with nonstop stimulation right up until you try to go to bed just doesn’t work and then lack of exercise not respecting the light dark cycle but also pain stress worries it’s hard to sleep good especially if your life’s a mess

[@TheDarknight7000]

i cant sleep due to my anxiety

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

joan del villar almanzar Dear Joan, very sorry to hear. Glad you came across the channel though. You know anxiety and difficulty sleeping go both ways, if you work on sleeping better by exploring this channel, chances are you’ll be much less anxious. Hang in there and please stay in touch!

[@jovale7521]

Found some of the arguments on success rates a bit flawed! Of course you could get my sleep efficiency to 100% if I was in bed only 3.5 hours a night! Still, it was useful to know that 8-10 weeks should be the amount of time you persist before you judge results!

[@jovale7521]

Thanks for the reply Daniel:-). Yes, it’s Martin. Very interesting content (although probably insanely boring if you’re not an insomniac or interested in helping insomniacs😉)

[@InsomniaCoach]

Just saw this comment, Jo - and thanks for making such an important point! The ultimate goal of sleep restriction is to build sleep drive, generate more consolidated sleep, and reduce the amount of time spent awake at night. Even though you used a very extreme example of 100% sleep efficiency if you allotted only three-and-a-half hours for sleep, this is still something you can build upon (and get results from). If your sleep efficiency was 100%, you would gradually lengthen your sleep window by 15-20 minutes or so every week or two until your sleep efficiency reached around 85%-90%. By this time, I would imagine you would be spending more time in bed and more time asleep - so the end result is the same (better sleep), but the journey would be slightly different!

[@crystalpenano4260]

Thank you for your information 😊

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Anytime!!

[@AkshayBarge1]

I stopped following those sleep hygienes. They put more pressure.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

100%! I went for thinking they were harmless to - they’re a big problem just like you say! More pressure and more preoccupation trying to “get it right”. Good for you I’m sure you’ll see better sleep with less pressure 👍

[@AkshayBarge1]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thanks ! currently I am working on deciding my sleep window as you suggested. Due to the whole hyperarousal issue, my sleep window has shifted drastically. Previously , I used to sleep at max by 1 Am , now it takes me 4-5 Am and 3 to 4 hours are wasted in just trying to sleep. So could you please let me know if I should go with the natural flow or really try hard to bring my schedule back ? I feel that my body clock might have changed forever by now Also, if I don't get enough sleep , I go for afternoon nap. To my surprise I never face any of those night issues. I drift off to sleep very quickly during afternoon on the same bed. So I don't know if I can do it easily during afternoon why I am facing ssues during night. Do you have any idea ?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

@@AkshayBarge1 Hi Akshay! You know when people diet, the reason they give up is they chose and extreme diet and can’t stick with it! Same with sleep Windows, pick something you can do indefinitely. Like get up at 7 am no matter what and then stop checking the time like 11 pm for example. It will help you try less - you won’t feel pressured hopefully. I think it’s hard getting predictable good sleep without having a pretty regular wake up time and sleeping a lot daytime... and the fact that you sleep easy daytime, that’s classic. It’s because you don’t feel pressured to sleep daytime, you feel like it’s ok if you don’t sleep. When you get to a point where it feels ok if you don’t sleep at night either, when that’s acceptable to you, you’ll sleep great at night!

[@Locodatruth6]

All I heard is how not to sleep smh

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Chase, thanks for taking the time to comment…and it’s so odd in a way that all we talk about is basically how to not try to sleep… one of so many paradoxes in insommialand… Be well and stay in touch now.