Which is Better? 2017 Manual vs 2023 X-Drive Competition

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Which is the better M3 for your money? The new 2023 M3 Competition X-Drive Jahre has all the technology BMW has ever put in an M3: Selectable AWD, Drift mode, 8-speed auto, adaptive dampers, and screeeeeens. You can frighten people and Porsches for under $100k.
But for less than $50k you can buy an F80 M3 that still has a manual transmission. Plus, it also has a twin-turbo inline-6, like the new one.
How are they different? Is the money worth the tech? Are the cars fundamentally different? Let's find out.
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[@TheSmokingTire]

Use code TST50 to get 50% OFF your first Factor box plus 20% off your next box at bit.ly/48g8rh7! Thank you to Factor for sponsoring this video.

[@Kee_Diddy]

Typo in the video title

[@gregpapagno5683]

I am 62 yrs old and bought my f80 new 9yrs ago 110k miles with ohlins suspension. Manual transmission and its staying in my garage

[@mcintosh.motors]

which ohlins setup specifically? i’m not happy with my current bilsteins and look and solutions with external reservoirs, high and low speed dampening etc

[@hovnojede010101]

@@mcintosh.motorsI have the Road and Track Ohlins on my F80. I'm on the fence about them. I was expecting a more sorted ride from Ohlins. Originally, I purchased the kit with the stock 90/190 N/mm springs and it was just too stiff around town. I then swapped to 80F/160R and it's made a big difference. There are now a few companies who offer a revalved kit with different springs for street use - for example, Turner Motorsport or 3DM Motorsport (if you're in the US). My manual F80 is also staying with me... Great car 😊

[@blueman5924]

For pete’s sake ! Drive it would ye. 😉

[@GerardoHernandezF87M2]

My f87 isn’t going anywhere either, but it won’t stop me from getting a g87 in a few years

[@jdmteggy2388]

How reliable has it been

[@Loothansa]

Love how every shot narrowly avoids showing the G80s grille haha Even the tumbnail! Good job!

[@baseballer21and0]

they blurred it out 🤣

[@baseballer21and0]

9:25

[@orbitaljunkie]

Literally every single time I see one of these grilles in the wild I cringe to myself.

[@Loothansa]

@@baseballer21and0 hahaha omg I missed that! thats hilarious.

[@loslogo]

People are forgetting the purpose of the grill. More power = more heat = bigger grill. Get a Kia EV if grills aren’t your thing.

[@homiefizzle5260]

They should've tested the F80 competition, which fixes a lot of the gripes people had with the original. Also, the LCI F80 had the nob and touch screen, just like the G80.

[@alldaydre]

Underrated comment right here! This is the answer. Manual F80/F82 is Competition and Executive package with the carbon fiber roof(no sunroof) is where it's at.

[@benjibarros3905]

Correct!!

[@pshep138]

@@alldaydre 100%. I bought a DCT F82 Comp with Executive and the carbon roof and I'd take it ten times out of ten over a G8x car.

[@danielqiu3779]

Does it fix the numb steering? I've driven a regular F82 and that was my biggest knock on it.

[@Griffin283]

@@danielqiu3779no. Suspension and proper tires also heavily helps the steering feel.

[@hamie63_m]

I can't believe we're calling F80's old already 😅

[@itubrrr]

Because they are… came out 10 years ago

[@hamie63_m]

@@itubrrr yeah.. . .I get it .. mine is a '06. THAT'S OLD

[@neilp6819]

Had an F80 DCT, for the most part loved it for Dad duty but missed a manual. Ordered a G80 manual, spec'd exactly as I wanted, waited the 5 months for it to built, etc. Drove it home for the first time in January and it felt so similar to my wife's X3 I got a lump in my throat. Buyer's remorse bad. Matt hit it on the head. The F80 feels like a sports car even when going slow, the G80 hauls the mail and no doubt the chassis has much higher limits and is fun at those limits but for most of your daily driving its just too soft. Can't keep of the sites looking for a cherry F80 manual or Blackwing.

[@arthurtwp]

I did the same! The manual doesn't do enough to retain the allure of the car.

[@jldp24]

Well explained..this seems to be a common gripe with the G8x. Heavy steering..numb..too heavy..top end performance a step above..but when do you experience it..its not as nimble.

[@Slowwagonftl]

You saved the new manuals by buying a new one. You’ve done the job Now to find a Blackwing 👀

[@brianczapla2217]

Funny you say that because I'm looking for an F80 or G80 for dad duty but cant seem to stop also searching for a CT4V Blackwing. I'm just afraid the 4BW is going to be too small.

[@FreshlySnipes]

Interesting. I have a G80 manual as well and love it. Definitely more compatible to an M5 though, it’s a 4-door saloon not an M2.

[@Stilo95]

As an F82 Competition owner I would never change my baby to a G82! No matter how much more horsepower it has, that's not everything!

[@ItzAllG]

Drive one, I too, was in the market for an f8x or an m340i until I drove these.

[@ZondaF355]

Now THIS is the Smoking Tire that I have missed! Pure car speak, pure enthusiast information. I have stuck in as a subscriber despite significant differences and through the lack of "Tuned" type content. If you want views keep making this type of video. We get enough political opinions from the rest of the world and come to places like this to escape the tribalism and enjoy our car tribe. Thank you guys for producing an informative car nerd video after what seems like years of hiatus. Bravo

[@simonmorty8344]

I'm totally with Matt here and love the looks so much more of the older M3. Love the interior, no hideous grill and the overall simpcity of the package. Also, he's spot on when it comes to the dashboard and actual gauges and love the analogue dials. In the real world, you don't need any more power.. Just have a few thousand for maintenance on hand.

[@nyk175175]

I’ve owned both of these, and Matt nailed it. The G80 is a bit boring and too heavy. It’s only fun at the limit…which you rarely hit on public roads

[@Unicornpirate]

Savagegeese made these remarks earlier when he did his long term review of his Type-R. 90% of these cars all offer that feeling. They only make you feel something when you are going 9/10ths or 10/10ths flat out. Around town they are so insulated and riddled with tech and are heavy you don't feel anything. Especially in modern turbo charged cars. The Type-R and Type-S give you SOME of that old school feeling of making the driver part of the experience. And as Matt said here, a F80 M3 will give you more of that because its higher performance.

[@natesmith408]

I think light weight also plays a big role in how “fun” a car feels at low speeds. The CTR/Type S are under 3200 lbs so it’s a big difference in weight. Do you think that makes for a more fun car in the canyons despite being FWD?

[@nyk175175]

I actually picked up a type S after dropping the G80. Not nearly as fast, but I don't care. It's light, responsive, steering and shifter input feel great. It's just fun to drive. And that's what I care about nowadays. I don't chase straight line speed. Couldn't care less about 0-60 times

[@madrx2]

Cool story bro, needs more dragons.

[@nyk175175]

There’s a stuffed dragon inside the car broooooooo

[@brandonchism6960]

My G80 was a manual with the normal seats (Tartufo leather is ONLY available in regular seats in the US). I adored that car, put nearly 75k miles on it between Nov 2021 and Dec 2023. I still think the F80 is prettier, but the G80 is the absolute answer for a new, do it all car for enthusiasts. I spent as much time taking my daughter to school as I did burning through Michelins on backroads in various states. Mine also had the 2 screen setup versus the large single screen of the LCI M cars. The looks never bothered me since you can’t see the front of the car from the drivers seat, but I am having the same amount of fun in my newly acquired E36 vert despite being MUCH slower. Admittedly… seeing my daughter giggle with hands in the wind like she’s on a roller coaster from the back seat may be the reason I hold this car in such high regard.

[@EugeneWang-m3k]

Thank you, thank you, THANK You for not overlaying music while you are talking! Love the old vs. new formats! Keep up the awesome work!

[@travis4161]

F80s is easily the best looking M3 sedan. Might even be the best looking M3 period

[@leftlimelight]

I disagree the E46 M3 is by far the best looking M3.

[@ryankunkel8247]

I still have a soft spot for the E92 M3. What a beaut

[@Euphorica]

E36 m3 sedan is way better looking

[@Syncopia]

E92, e46, e36, f80, and g80 dead last. In my opinion.

[@Soh90]

I agree, F80 is the best looking sedan. Followed by the E90. My coworker recently got a G80 M3 Comp. Seeing it everyday certainly helps the design grow on you, but it's still a hideous design regardless of how much you look at it.

[@allthepizzainmybelly1302]

As the owner of an f80 that sees 80% track time, I love this content. Thanks guys. Would love to hear a little CT4-V BW comparo thrown in as a middle ground price point.

[@fantastic9864]

As someone who chose 4BW over F80, me to 😊

[@allthepizzainmybelly1302]

@@fantastic9864 did you own an f80 previously? Thinking about the 4BW as a daily until the aftermarket suspension and braking market catches up. The braking system is my biggest area of concern for track work.

[@fantastic9864]

@@allthepizzainmybelly1302 No, but I was cross shopping. I was able to get the 4BW 6 months old CPO for just a few thousand more than a manual F80 so it made it an easy choice for me. I have my first track day with it next month so I'll see how the brakes hold up. I'm not too worried about it since I believe the performance academy uses stock brakes and their cars are hammered on.

[@joszer]

​@@allthepizzainmybelly1302 I've tracked mine three days last year. Brakes hold up good but will fade towards the end of a brake heavy track at the end of a 20m session. That's on the OEM pads. A set of DTC60s will fix that up easily though. Same calipers and rotors off of a SS1LE. Depending how hard you push, the off the shelf experience holds up great if you ask me.

[@allthepizzainmybelly1302]

@@joszer interesting. Were you able to feel the fade coming with the brake by wire?

[@jbrown7403]

Love my 2016 F82 Competition and I plan on driving it for another 5-10 years. No mechanical issues at all and still looks great. 60K miles and not a single rattle. Big smile every time my garage door goes up. 👍😉🏁 Agree with Matt about the analog gauges. I’ll go analog with as many buttons as possible for as long as possible 😉

[@DanMike-b8r]

F82 is pretty much perfect, especially in manual but I don't like how they add complexity like the valvtronic variable valve lift. Wonder how long that whole mechanism lasts?

[@tomadv]

LMAO at all the creative ways to hide the grill!!! Too funny

[@zhaoyangxie]

Funny thing is that people said the same thing about the E9x vs F8x and how not engaging the F8x is but how fast it is compared to the E9x

[@louderthanschnell]

I owned a manual f80 for 2 years, a dct f87 m2 competition for 1 year and now i have a g80 m3 xdrive since 5 months. The f80 for a daily with the manual transmision was not so fun, but as a fun car it was good, never loved the manual transmision of the f80. The m2 comp felt special in every case and the dct gearbox was great. The G80 as a daily is not so special(maybe the coupe form gives some specialness for the m4), you need to floor it always otherwise it is like a normal 3 series with the sport seats, but i never felt like i didn’t want to daily the car unlike the f80 and f87. If i start to get bored, i go on winding roads and i realize how great the g80 is. For me the G80 is much better.😊

[@DDMSteveB]

I’ve owned my E90 M3 for over 7 years. I know I’m in the minority of M3 owners but I like the F80 and G80 quite a lot. The G80’s are insanely fast. I like that the F80 still has a double clutch available. I’m the weirdo that wouldn’t take a manual in either option. The manual transmissions are kinda crap. The electric power steering isn’t as good but hydraulic supremacy in my E90 will be hard to beat. Good video friends.

[@pshep138]

Agreed. I'd daily driven manuals for 10 years (E46 M3, WRX STi, B8.5 S4 all manual), but I bought an F82 M4 Competition with the DCT and I've never looked back or regretted it. I really, really like the DCT.

[@brauhaus213]

The F80 manual M3 was the worst manual driving experience I've ever had. I've never driven a modern manual transmission BMW where the manual inputs were well resolved with one another and felt natural. Ultimate marketing machine.

[@claycrawford9009]

After driving many many G80’s and owning over 12 m3’s now….I 110% agree with Matt on the G80. I dislike the screens, I dislike the looks (especially compared to an f80) and you really can’t beat the f80 for bang for your buck. They’re pretty reliable (daily drive mine and out nearly 5k miles per month on it) in my experience I’ve had 0 issues with it. It you keep them stock and keep up on maintenance it’s a very very solid car. I’m not sure why the other guy is railing the F80 so hard, if you want amazing steering feel buy an Alfa Romeo Giulia Quad…but they do not even come close on reliability. I have a quad as well and it has been sitting at the dealer for an electrical issue since December. If you want an amazing car that won’t cost you 6 figures buy an f80 or if you want better sound an e9x m3. Imo you can’t beat an f80 for a daily/weekend/all around car it’s perfect

[@DanG90]

Awesome video guys, I'm a little late to watching it, but this is one of the best Ive seen on the channel in a while! F80 for me

[@corinwilson1590]

Reviewers/journalists always dog on every new M3 and then sing their praises when the successor comes out. Look at the history- E90 comes out: too soft, lost the I6, too plain, etc. F80 comes out: too harsh, unfeeling, sounds bad, etc. G80 comes out: bloated, not emotional/special, ugly, etc. The truth is every M3 has been excellent, and the newer model is always substantially better than the old. They did not effectively communicate how much better/faster the G80 is than the F80, it is SHOCKING. And the value play doesn't make sense because you can get a used G80 for mid 60's all day.

[@carlosl5766]

Manual is always the way to go!

[@Skooby59]

Yall are gold and i appreciate how it isnt just bashing one of the cars. Keep up the good work

[@TheSmokingTire]

Appreciate that

[@cwx8]

Huh. I could not disagree more. I've had the F80 M3, an F82 M2, an M2 Competition, and now have that same drivetrain in an X3M Comp.. and I really do not like the new ones. There is something squirrely about the xDrive system that does unpredictable things when you're thrashing it. The old cars behave as you expect them to, you can rip the car as hard as you want and the rear behaves predictably. Now I don't think that's the case. Sure, for track driving I have no dobut the G80 is faster. But in terms of just sliding the car around and getting in trouble, I think the F80 was the end of the era.

[@eugenux]

why did you give up on real driving and brought an suv?, and, ffs, if I hear "space" one more time.. 😄

[@racebannon2332]

@@eugenuxyou speak English 😂

[@adamsdrives]

@8:50 aren’t all M3’s “knob operated”?….

[@tyler9703]

Nice

[@papa_pt]

savage

[@horsecockexpress7612]

if he is driving its KNOB operated. 9:02 you think he can get any closer to the wheel?

[@Adam-ub9nu]

Ahahaha!

[@maxjtj31]

😂

[@FrankW1029]

well, I went with the G80 RWD competition without the carbon buckets. also drops the msrp from $100k+ for the xdrive to around $86k. my best friend had a 2014 F82 and than 2018 F80 comp, so I know how those drives. Also it is pretty tough to find a F80 with lower mileage that is under $50k and dealing with the reliability issue with the older car.

[@cloud3x3]

FYI, the later year F80 has a touchscreen that's just coded out for some reason. You can turn it on with some simple codes, and it works great except that the screen is a little far away. I'm guessing that's why it's not on by default. If we're going to highlight forged internals then I think some basic coding can be in the convo. Overall, the f80 has been great for some light mods, not sure how the 100k G89 holds in that respect.

[@f80cam]

yeah but doing that wouldnt allow them to push tiny little bias narratives like that "the f80 doesnt have a touchscreen" when it very much does lol.

[@Sharky_v]

IMHO, g80 is definitely a better car overall. Like the video said, better suspension. S58 is way better than the s55 in terms of power delivery and tuning potentials. The interior is way better than the f80 interior(gauge clusters and buttons are personal preference). The option to have 4wd in the g80 is a game changer. The CB seats are sexy AF(if you fit). Not to mention all the tech you can do with the app such as remote start from anywhere and located your car with the touch of a button. if you want old school, E92 is where it’s at. The F80 IMO is a transition model to the refine G80 platform. I do miss the power dome on the f80 hood tho..

[@arthurtwp]

Having just gone from a comp DCT F80 to a manual G80. I agree with Matt. There's a certain.. rowdiness or fuzziness that's missing. The relatively uncouth nature of the F80 is definitely missed. How it is so peaky. How the DCT was lurchy. The F80 was special even at low speeds. The G80 you'd have to push it really hard to enjoy it. The things we lose in the name of progress.

[@BigDavoNorriwong]

It's like missing '80s and '90s turbo lag. It's fun even if not super fast

[@F80zcp]

This was a fun video to watch!! Both generations are excellent IMO. I do wish I could have loaned you my 18 as it’s a near stock Competition model 6M with 1/5 the miles of the red one. Turner shifter bushings and upgraded trans mount also solve the meh shifter feel so overall the car is excellent to drive.

[@magic8585]

I love how you censored the front of the car.

[@jamesFong]

I’m a little late to this video and as an F80 6spd owner from new in 2015 I’m a little biased. I can agree the rear suspension is a little harsh, mine doesn’t have car play and it was just before LTE (RIP 3G). But, the fact that you can turn off traction completely and select your own gear with proper gear ratios (for those that understand gearing in most cars are set for emissions and noise) and have all the torque when the differential locks up. That’s a thing of beauty. I think the issue most people have is it requires finesse and dare I say skill. People have become too reliant on technology and torque management. They just want to floor it everywhere like we did in a ‘94 civic and still have traction. People aren’t really looking for a drivers car… they want a car that flatters their lack of driving skill. The F80 rewards those who know. Throw on some camber plates and an adjustable toe link and it’s perfect. Oh, does great with a baby seat in the back. 93k miles later and me and my 9 yr old still love to go “weee”!

[@_IMNNO]

Cammisa commented on this: It’s crazy that zoomers on TikTok already think that the F80 is really old. Makes me feel like the old one.

[@TheBucketOfTruth]

He also said the new Tesla Model 3 Performance made an M3 redundant. Which I kind of get because if you're just going to drive a heavy car around that is mostly good at going really fast, why bother with a bad sounding gas engine and gears when you can just fly silent with electric? Since all the feel an fizz has been ironed out of the car anyway.

[@eugenux]

@@TheBucketOfTruth neaah; he is becoming a best buddy with all electric cars manufacturers because #early access bring tons of views which, in turn, brings tons of money. Also the controversy sets a high engagement with the audience and that's also beneficial; it is literally "how to be successful on youtube in 7 easy steps" type of plan.(and, unfortunately, it works)

[@TheBucketOfTruth]

@@eugenux I actually believe him though because once driver engagement goes out the window as the advantage for the gas car (or noise), then why not just have electric? Cause the driver engagement on the M3 is suffering and they don't sound very good either. Remember we're not talking about an old Porsche here vs a new electric car, we're talking about a performance daily driver sedan. And the Tesla is also 500 hp, also 4000 lbs. And it's half the price of the M3. And I literally hate Elon Musk and anything he's associated with by extension, so I'm the last person to want to admit this sort of thing.

[@Craiggg12345]

Who

[@Schwabz33]

I have 2020 M4 Comp.. DCT. My car has the LCI tweaks.. the S55 has forged internals .so I’m not sure what you guys were talking about. I don’t know what year F8 M3 guys are driving, but Bmw revised the suspension for the LCI competition and power delivery is amazing. My car is the heritage edition package and I have the Mperformance suspension. G80 is a slapping of Jenkee in between car that Bmw built to hold them over for the electric stuff.

[@AKK5I]

S55 has forged aluminum alloy pistons and piston rings but cast conrods. Zach mentioned the B58 but that has a forged crank and conrods too, but cast pistons. Either way, S58 is top dog but unless you're aiming for crazy amounts of HP, all three motors are going to be capable decent tuning on the stock block/internals.

[@DanteGonxhja]

I seriously don't agree how you guys say so bluntly that you should not option the carbon seats. Everyone I know that has tried those seats myself included has agreed that they're way superior to the standard seats. I feel they are extremely comfortable the only problem being getting in and out. The standard seats offer no support at all and at the end of the day this isn't an M5, you're gonna want to track it or have fun in the canyons which the standard seats do an awful job of keeping you in place. You should emphasize that seat comfort at the end of the day is also subjective, not just straight up tell people not to get the carbon buckets because someone might actually listen to you and end up disappointed. Agree on everything else said in the review though and thank you for the free content.

[@bortforts]

I’m definitely bias but I absolutely love the f series cars. The styling is excellent both exterior and interior, plus I love physical buttons. A touchscreen equals a dirty screen.

[@carguy7627]

Zach starting the comparison by quoting stats reminds me of people comparing tech by quoting memory and processor speeds. For me, cars are about the experience and emotions that they evoke. Those aren't as quantifiable, but to me they are more important. I get it that everyone's different and maybe Zach and people like him get their enjoyment from stats and numbers - to each their own.

[@gregs8685]

I’ve never driven either, but just remember the f80 getting absolutely savaged in the car magazines when it was released.

[@easycheddy]

I’m curious how the f80 vs a new civic type r as a daily driver

[@Cowsgomoo1284]

Right! I was in the camp of people that hated F80s because of all the bad reviews about them but hadnt driven one. Then finally last year I drove one and bought it the next day. People hated that it was bigger like an M5... To which I say, people have always loved M5s!

[@All_Together_Now]

Love this style of head to head with you guys! It seems like head to heads aren’t very common anymore but they’re so interesting.

[@yourpalbobbyboi]

Just got my g80 m3. In black I actually love the way it looks but the technology is brutal . I daily drive a 5th gen 4 runner so I hate not having buttons or an analog dash in the beamer. I guess I will get use to it. Still in break in period. Time will tell. Great video !

[@colelmore]

A comparison I’d love to see as their prices seem to be getting very close together or at least will be in a couple years is a used F80 vs used CT4V Blackwing.

[@evanescent0311]

I had an e46, two F80s (6MT and DCT) then a G80 M3CS. I’m over the grille, but hated it at first. I loved my F80 manual with cloth seats. CS was a different beast tho.

[@djzaki]

So I own an e92 M3 dct comp. Bought a comp f80 manual. Sold the f80 because I kept comparing it to my e92 and how dull it felt. When I sold it I realized that you cannot compare it to the e9x. From the f80 to the g80 they mastered the everyday sport car luxury sedan which the e9x is a lot of car to drive on the daily. I ended up buying a manual g80. In many ways it feels like the f80. The tech feels relatively the same because I bought a really low optioned g80. The g80 has a nice linear build of boost versus the f80. The g80 sounds a bit better than the f80. But, I will have to say the f80 was the Pinnacle of exterior design. The g80 is beautiful to me despite the grill, but the f80 was undeniably beautiful to everyone. Now, I got a 2022 manual g80 so it does not have that the humongous screen. Aside from black wheels, sport line lights, interior carbon, and bucket seats it does not have any other options adding to tech so i think that may be the way to go when optioning a g80. I'll have to say my only gripes with the g80 is the interior is nice but very creaky over bumps. I feel like the e90x was more put together. I also do not like how the g80 idles and sounds as it idles. It's not a very smoothe motor when at a standstill. But with that being said my heart still thinks the e9x models are the best. The high redline and V8 sound cannot be replicated aside from comparing it to vehicles that are in another league such as a gt3 or a zo6 that have that high revving exotic sound and feel. Due to the fact that I can't purchase either of those, in choose to keep the e9x. I also feel that the g80 may be the final manual/ all motor non electric m car so it will be worth keeping as well as an ode to the Pinnacle of a generation

[@MattJelonek]

Great work guys… awesome review and comparo on both.

[@rjnation5042]

Hell yeah F80 all the way, find a good one & spend a little money getting it sorted, you'll be fine, Rj in Oz

[@YuriTereshyn]

Digging the thumbnail!

[@pshep138]

As usual, I agree with a lot of the points in this video. Coming out of my 6MT E46 M3 coupe, I wanted a newer M car as a semi-daily driver and weekend backroads cruiser, but didn't know if I wanted to go F chassis or G chassis (I drove a 6MT E92 M3, loved the S65 but the ownership experience isn't for me). Background - I work for a high line car dealer and get to drive just about everything from relatively affordable sports cars, to 7-figure hypercars, and everything in between. Ended up buying a CPO '20 F82 M4 Competition with the DCT. I've driven a G80 Competition Xdrive (auto) and a G82 Competition (RWD, auto) and I like just about everything about my F82 more, minus the extra power from the S58. I like the DCT over the 8 speed auto, it seems to just have more personality. The biggest swing to me was the exterior styling and the interior on the F8x cars. The 2018+ F8x cars feel right in that sweet spot of timelessness - more modern feeling thanks to the LCI in 2018, but still physical buttons for important things and physical analog gauges, with toys like HUD and wireless Apple CarPlay. Also, in 2019 and 2020, the MMI screen in the M4 is a touch screen. The Competitions also got quite a bit of suspension and differential revision to help with a lot of the complaints on the earlier F8x cars. I can't think of another sports car I'd like to own, at least for the way I use my car, short of $100k. It really is a great platform.

[@boostedhatch3]

I have a manual e36m sedan and manual e46m. I love both but I had an Evo 8 prior and really miss the boost. There’s something about an f80 with the 666m wheels that makes me want to get rid of both

[@Petrospect]

9:25 THE BLURRED FACE OF THE G80 LMFAO I do think the F80 is a compelling used buy but I think whenever I'm within firing range of an M3, I'd wait for the G80. It has the E36 badboy smut factor, it's completely unloved rn. It's the M3 996. I like that about it. It's maximum M3 obnoxiousness But... the F80 is getting down there. The nuances are definitely interesting! Definitely think though that the OG M2 is the 2010s BMW I'd consider buying

[@lowstrife]

LMAO I get it now

[@diltd3989]

the E36 m3 is on the upswing. bad ones are still cheaper, but there's newfound reverence that people might want to watch out for.

[@Petrospect]

@@diltd3989 Oh yeah definitely, it always swings around. 996s, 964s and E36s were all hated at one point, they're revered now, 996s are on the upswing for instance. I should know, I own an E36 sedan and had to see the bad press it got for so long 😁

[@Unicornpirate]

F87 M2 Comp. Easily the best modern BMW. CS is better obviously but they are expensive. M2 Comp gives you everything the F80 M3 does but with better feel.

[@ATHLETE.X]

Wtf is smut factor

[@sanxi34]

Props for all the effort covering the beaver teeph LOL... Gotta say, I do agree with all Matt's points on the F80, and that's why it would be my choice if I had that cash (specially for the insurance and maintenance)... The F80 seems to be a hell of a car, pretty, with gauges and most modern technology that I would actually want, no ball holders, and manual!

[@lloydjewell1402]

Great video lads. I had a F and now a G touring. So much faster and more comfortable, (no buckets) as a daily, plus wagon! Through a damp rainforest it’s much quicker than even my GT3. Climate controls are fine once you’re accustom to the screen.

[@kimchee411]

Very jealous of your Touring! The ultimate dad car. -American

[@lloydjewell1402]

Not many about but perfect daily !

[@ianmason2003]

He mentions forged internals and b58s. He’s comparing to a S55 which has forged internals and a closed deck.

[@dane458]

I've got the F80. Absolutely love it! 🔥🔥🔥

[@Nick22257]

Have been looking forward to this one, was a great watch

[@StoicFighter]

Fire ahh thumbnail

[@Tony71777]

Really liked this format. Can we get an F30 340i vs G20 M340i next? Or anything Boss 302 related

[@masterofdisaster666]

This style of video is so fun to watch. Seems like this is also a model of how to keep making great videos for enthusiasts despite less new affordable enthusiast cars coming out

[@Hashbrowniepie]

The effort to avoid showing the grille 😂 good job

[@BlakesGarage]

I noticed there was a lot of saying that F8x chassis was boring. There is one major reason for this and that is that you have traction control still on MDM mode doesn’t count. MDM mode is super invasive and as you get on throttle with these cars, it’s probably blinking all the way up to 60 miles an hour. Car is an absolute animal will not disappoint before putting it into a ditch if you’re not a good driver. On the FX8 platform, the DCT is where it’s at.

[@herlegz6969]

What marketing material from BMW in the past decade has said ultimate driving machine? I love my BMWs but Hyundai does better even. They lost their talent and way.

[@markyconfident]

The E92 was the perfect M3. Its balance , incredible handling and insane V8 8000rpm changes with the perfect DCT ... it had such theatric SOUL. I replaced the E92 with an F82 .. Sold the M4 after 3 months.. Hated it. Did I mention the throttle down shift blips on the E92 ?

[@ralphcoccio3799]

I agree. I have an '09, E92, M3, DCT. No cats, straight piped to an M performance muffler. Sounds insane!

[@rgm33]

Same here. As the owner of a 2010 e90 m3 6mt, I think it is by far the best m3. The chassis and steering are great, the styling is timeless, the build quality is better than the f80 and the S65 is just fabulous. Can't beat that V8, just brings a smile to your face every time. Isn't that what its all about?

[@jldp24]

​@@rgm33the build quality is better than the F8x?? Your opinion is null and void and you are plain dumb. There are advantages to an E92 over the rest..but the the torque on the s65 is unforgivably low. You need to rev the shit out of the car..and the reliability suffers as a result . The F8x was progress and objectively the sweet spot for M owners.

[@JayAllDayM3]

Also should’ve mentioned that pre-2023 M3s do have two screens (iDrive 7.5) if you want a new M3 without the big LCD screen I’d highly recommend getting a 2022

[@hellcat7054]

DO MORE OF THIS!!

[@dwaynebolan2583]

💯

[@jonathank4416]

It's been said ad nauseum but the G80 is heinously ugly.

[@rudiganter5691]

Great Video, I found it interesting. My Daily is a 1M, that I may never sell & keep it in the Garage for the odd drive here & there. The Steering is something I just won't find in a replacement and everything is way heavier, which has a sizeable impact on the driving experience. I'm now thinking of what a suitable daily would be if I stayed with a performance Car........G87 M2 Manual, G80 M3 Manual............or dare I say it, a Honda Civic Type R (FL5). Or do I get something like an E90/92 M3 or F80 M3 and build what I'd like? Silly first World problem I know, but the continuous increase in weight, the disconnected steering dwindling availability of a Manual box is just numbing the driving experience. I will also add that the Litchfield modified G87 M2 Manual on Harry's Garage here on YT, look pretty awesome (although the Seats are not for me).

[@ICANTEWGF]

The b58 has forged rods and a forged crank, which is one of the reasons it can make so much power reliably. What forged pieces is the b58 missing compared to the s58?

[@genderlessyoutubefanperson]

Hi performance Mahle forged pistons from the factory, lightweight forged crank, valves and springs etc. I have both engines. B58 is a nice "truck" engine, S58 is a race engine. They are very different in characteristics, internal parts and design. Cooling system, lubrication system, forced induction system, etc. are very different.

[@kcw9313]

@@genderlessyoutubefanpersona race engine has a proper dry sump homey

[@genderlessyoutubefanperson]

@kcw9313 Not sure if you are trying to defend your b58 or dissing on S58. Again, just for you, homey S58 is a motorsport engine. Having a dry sump is not needed or required for the engine to be classified as a race engine. In S58, there are many elegant engineering solutions that will give you many worry free miles on the street and race track.

[@stevemartegani]

Trying to emulate the EverydayDriver format now?

[@doctorsmoothy]

Makes sense to mix it up. Every day driver uses smoking tires format for new car reviews and has started using The Topher style head cam videos.

[@darrinscoilsclouds1498]

love the g80 grill looks supper agresive and cool

[@gavinsullivan9015]

Funnily enough a CTR is what I’m considering at the moment - truth is it’ll come with a warranty and likely be reliable and 300bhp is enough for the road… Might have to drive an F80 to make sure though…

[@xZen0sx]

So happy I went with F80 Comp!

[@guillaumelemay8889]

Great video, keep it coming.

[@kimchee411]

Getting some Everyday Driver vibes from this format, which is not a bad thing! I think the G80 makes more sense if you look at it like an M5. These cars are no longer about raw fun. It's close in size to the e39 with a more refined ride and relatively quiet cabin than F80 and monstrous power. It would make a nice family/executive sedan. Unfortunately the G87 M2, sharing the same platform and weight as the G80/82, also had the fun ironed out from the F87 as well. It feels more like a small GT car than a tossable sports coupe.

[@jad4ca]

Good point. I always wanted an M5 but then the M3 got to be the size of the older M5s (and the new M5s got too big and heavy), so I picked up a G80 and I love it.

[@drtydsh]

cool video concept, keep em coming gents

[@commonduck10]

Disrespecting the ctr and ITS Matt!

[@Nate_H.]

M really lost their way when Albert Biermann left imo. G80 is soft compared to the F80, straight up. F80: Carbon fiber driveshaft, carbon fiber roof, rear subframe bolted straight to the chassis without bushings and a dual clutch transmission (when not optioned with the manual). It's not a soft car, but it does everything well. G80 is no doubt a great car, but it just doesn't compare to the F80 imo.

[@facetiousmonkey5322]

The e90 was peak M3. Bespoke NA v8. Turbos are more powerful but the naturally aspirated V8 feels and sounds more special

[@motaz1975]

every generation M3 gets bigger, more pricey, and less visceral. seems all car manufactures care about these days is straight line performance. never mnid the fact the g80 is still a very boring looking, almost ugly car.

[@SaturdayWinter]

Yup, pretty much

[@_IMNNO]

I think it’s more of an amazing engine (S58) that so happens to come with a car.

[@josephscaringi6442]

Looks are subjective g80 looks amazing

[@mazda_miata_]

I hate to sound like an old fart, but the G80 M3 is so hideous in my opinion it’s enough to make me skip it. If I had $100k to spend on a four door, and it had the better EPAS and basically retained all the good things from the F80 and the G80 in one but it kept the hideous exterior, I don’t think I could stomach buying one. Especially at that price tag

[@tyler9703]

Eh, the G80 design is a lot of (bad) things but I wouldn't call it boring.

[@georgehillman646]

You had me at "a cake that replaces itself as you eat it."😂😂😂😂 But... I feel like something was missing. You know, like there was something else I expected to see....🤔

[@tobyanderson4641]

Haven driven both the G82 competition and actually having driven that exact f80 I have to say I much prefer the feeling and driving experience of the F80. The G82 feels too easy and forgiving and assisted, but the F80 feels like it would let you slide it into a tree if you gave it the proper inputs, and that’s how an M car should feel.

[@saffaseppo7664]

F82 M4cs owner here. Tried to convince myself a few times to get a G80/2 but keep failing. Might just wait for the G82 M4cs. Side note - slap a BM3 on the F80 for $600 and dial steering and power delivery at your will.

[@rogerj412]

The best part of the newer BMW front end is the driver doesn't have to look at it, but in all honesty it's grown on me.

[@yg78t76t7]

I used to watch TheSmokingTire every day years ago. Why is he only at 1.08M subs? Should be at 3M+ subs. This guy is a legend in the car review space.

[@thepyrrhonist6152]

love my F80. Nice job guys

[@turbole1]

Great Video, would of been nice to compare the last of the F80s nice comp model (they have touch screen nav too) and drive a better and to have the first G80`s , Always enjoy the contact, big Fan of you guys from the UK and always enjoy the PODCASTs, keep up the great content 🤘

[@DanG90]

When the G80 drove past and the front grille was blurred I lost it 😂

[@versailles9412]

I feel like people forget what a performance car is. The G80 M3 xdrive I own is a performance car. The front grille drama is over, not sure why this joke is even continuing. The G80 is now one of the more beloved looks on the M3. Everyone just replaced the plastic grille with a carbon csl or gt grille. I generally don't like the BMW community because of what the community does on their own cars for clout. I also did not hear any arguments to buy the F80 over the G80 in this video. It more so became jerking off the F80 once it started being "reviewed". Personal opinions are whatever, I want to know what is a performance improvement. All I heard with the F80 is I like this I like that, this is cheaper, this looks good. Take some notes from Throttle House. Have an opinion but back it up with something lol. At the end of the video all I heard was G80 is better hands down. Matt Farah's constant bitching about the looks of it just makes me think the whole video was just to praise the old car that by comparison is a worse performance car. The F80 is a fine car but once again Matt Farah just made this video in 2024 to compare whats already been compared, just to bitch about the G80's looks which everyone is over by now. I hated it when I saw it first but now I love it.

[@JohnNick72]

Driven both of these in anger…. Owned the ‘17 LCI F80 Comp with DCT, and did a 2-day M-School with a lot of seat time in the RWD G80 Comp. Also, I have owned the ‘20 F97 X3M Comp, and I currently own the ‘21 LCI F90 Comp (which is the best choice for my use case - 18k miles a year with a lot of rainy highway driving). BMW manuals are average, the DCT in the F80 was special. It felt special going slow too. The new 8 spd ZF is smoother and shifts very quickly, but lacks the (I don’t know) “thump” of the redline shifts of the DCT. If you want the fastest track car, get G80 xDrive Comp. If you want a really fast, but better steering track car, the G80 Comp. If you want the newest with a manual, G80. If you want a better looking and still really fast car, I recommend the F80 Comp with the DCT. Get the manual if you don’t drive in a lot of traffic and that’s really your thing, but know it’s not as good. If you live somewhere where it rains a lot (like me) or sees ice/snow, the high level of low RPM Torque causes the F80’s to get sketchy pretty easily. The LCI is better than the original, but it can still put a skid in your pants. On a dry track with grip (I did several laps at COTA) the DCT & M-DCT settings will keep things manageable. If it’s slick, however, it’s a serious handful. Fun, but not fast. So, why now an F90 M5? It’s great looking, only a little bigger and heavier, it’s fast as hell, & handles better than it should all while being more comfortable! Get a CPO version of this before they’re impossible to find. Right now they price better than a new G80 for the most part.

[@johnnyg9804]

Sitting in front of the controversial grill on the new one! Slick thumbnail!!!😂

[@wetwea33]

At the end of the day people are almost exclusively buying the g80 xdrive to mod for straight line speed. Downpipes, tune, and some ethanol and you have a 700+whp car that does 60-130 in the 4s and 5s on the stock motor/trans. Also running sub 9.5s (plaid times) in the 1/4.

[@allthepizzainmybelly1302]

Which is why BMW has lost its way. Uppity Dodge crowd is their demographic now, not actual drivers.

[@ayushmalpeddi2793]

Wait till you guys compare a SS 1LE or ATSV to a F80 M3/4. It's even more visceral, communicative, better handling, and sounds even better. The F80 is fast but it still lacks the steering feels and is sterile/dull. Also it's ride is very stiff. GM does an insanely good job with their magnetorheological damper system. Can ride like an older Cadillac or get as stiff as a Porsche GTS car. Not sure why people get hyped about modern bimmers to be honest. The comparison is kinda pointless because it's very well known modern BMWs aren't really sports luxury cars but rather luxury sporty cars. BMWs lost their touch with sports cars/sedans over a decade ago. M2 CS was probably the last decent one. Now they just are fast premium cars. Not sports cars. There is a reason why the 2016 6th gen SS (non-1LE) won in Motortrends comparison to a 2015 M4. The Camaro was half the price and didn't even have the 1LE package 😂. Their is also a damn good reason why the Corvette and both Cadillac blackwings appear on caranddrivers list for 2024 but zero of BMWs crap appear. Lastly it's wild that a 2018 Camaro ZL1 1LE 6 speed manual MATCHES the nurburgring time of the 2023 BMW M4 CSL dual clutch automatic... Sad.

[@vvevvevvvv]

ZL1 is so much cooler, imho.

[@natesmith408]

I can’t be the only one cross-shopping both M3s and the Integra Type S. Price aside which is the more fun car for the canyons?

[@mittortz]

In this video, Matt said F80 > ITS. But on IG, pretty sure I saw Zack say ITS better for canyons. For me, I love the ITS but the discussion is sorta moot with FWD vs RWD. I’ll pick the M3 every time, if it’s supposed to be a “fun” car, especially considering Hondas vacuum cleaner engines compared to the lovely inline 6. However, for a DD with a hatchback and occasional light backroads? Then I might go ITS.

[@ShaiyanHossain]

where does the ct4v blackwing fall under all of this?

[@chrisstevens1272]

I own an F82 M4 Competition, and have been waiting a long time for you guys to take a look at the F8X again, particularly as it stacks up against G8X. I think you have a couple videos in an older format of heavily modified ones, and the GTS, which didn't help me much when I was shopping a couple years ago. In fact, it seems like none of the KZbinrs I follow like Doug DeMuro or Throttle House have anything on these, so thanks for doing this. I agree with your criticisms of the F8X. The suspension is something I continue to consider upgrading. The Comp is even firmer than what you guys drove. Weirdly, I've started trying my commute with the adapters in Sport (medium) because Comfort (soft) oscilates for quite awhile on our crappy LA streets. I have found that upgrading to Pilot Sport 4S from the OE Pilot Super Sport helped noticeably with compliance and noise, though. That said, I'm really happy with just about everything else with my car. The power is more than sufficient. I was on Big Tujunga last week, and it's hard to imagine another 100+ horsepower doing anything to improve the experience. I already run out of road in most places before the S55 really stretches its legs. The front-end grip is pretty immense, especially with the new tires. The interior is simple in a good way, relatively quiet, and the Competition seats have good grip, without the ridiculous "compromises" (read "ball holster") of the G8X Comp seats. I think your conclusion is completely correct. If you look at what $40K-50K gets you these days, the F8X is an insane value. I'm obviously biased, but I think these cars have been overlooked, partially because journalists liked the F87 M2 better because of its size, but these actually only weigh slightly more.

[@cptclutch2530]

You should try flashing your car with the CS/GTS software. Really transforms it.

[@chrisstevens1272]

@@cptclutch2530 I haven't. It might be something to look into if I ever get "bored" with it. I've heard it adds even more obnoxious pops to the exhaust runoff, which there's already too much of in the higher engine modes on the Comp. Maybe that's configurable, though.

[@cptclutch2530]

@@chrisstevens1272 You can pick and choose each module. So for example I'm running the GTS diff code along with the F87 CS steering and the F80 CS suspension.

[@BjCmeadows]

Great presentation from you Zack, you detail and sell the virtues of the new gen comp very well! However, gimme an e90 M3 or my old e30 forced induction 318is over either of these any day

[@AKK5I]

5:05 huh so I had to check on this. Yes the S58 has fully forged internals, while the S55 has forged aluminum alloy pistons and piston rings BUT cast conrods. B58 has arguably a larger aftermarket due to the larger demograph, and has a forged crank and conrods but cast piston.

[@Ratcher]

The S55 doesn’t have forged pistons. Piston rings are never forged, so neither has them. S58 has forged pistons. B58 same as S55 have casted pistons.

[@snakeplissken1754]

And yet if we put both of you in a mint condition e30 m3 you would both giggle with joy like children in the candy store.

[@AreaCode865]

Great presentation from both presenters, though Matt wins the argument. The DSG equipped F80 would’ve added further weight for that specialness and occasion. I’ve just bought a 2017 M4C in the UK, with 43k miles, for £27500 (about 35k dollars at our current dismal exchange rate). I extended the warranty with BMW for £850 so no tuning, but as Matt says, I don’t need to go any faster. It’s quick enough. An F80 would’ve cost £7-10k more to a similar spec and age making the F82 an absolute performance bargain. I could have afforded the G82 series, but I’d rather spend the difference on fuel, maintenance and road trips. With a car that’s ‘too new’, I feel more inhibited actually driving it and enjoying it. The older car got my vote. In a few years, I’ll likely buy the newer car, but I’ll avoid those seats with the nutcrackers 😂

[@airpolska]

This is about the realest and most honest G80 vs F80 review I've seen by a mile... i agree w all points on the G80... its a disconnected car that needs to be pushed too hard... the f80 is not perfect but its wildly fun and still capable.

[@JasonTallman]

I cannot believe they didn’t compare cars with similar transmissions. The F80’s DCT is so much better the the G series tranny. That’s what makes the difference in the cars in my opinion.

[@RNMAutomotiveAddiction]

F80 > G80 PIG NOSE - Wish you tested a F80 with CompPack and DCT, that car is much more raw than Auto G80.