Desperate Housewives: How Susan Became The Show's Accidental Villain... | Explained

[@diyalectic52]

It's that Susan took way too long to do basic introspection. We respected Gabby more because she was proudly narcissistic. I always thought that Bree and Lynette mirrored each other, with Bree being fierce in the home, and Lynette fierce in work. And Susan and Gabby mirroring each other, with Gabby in acceptance of her outward narcissism and Susan in denial of her covert narcissism.

[@seannanana84]

I fully agree with this. I always loved Gaby because she was self aware and still didn't give AF 😂

[@rinmartell2678]

But Bree was a fierce at home AND at work?

[@andree948]

@@rinmartell2678 Yes, but that success she achieved in her work was a big part of her character journey & growth. And Lynette‘s journey & growth was at home.

[@Doublecool]

I think the opposite. Gabby and Bree mirror each other in being self aware of their flaws while Susan and Lynette are always on denial of them.

[@jclyntoledo]

​@@DoublecoolInteresting and I think I can see that more. Although I hate how casually narcissism is used in OP's comment 😂😂

[@Italianxx508]

in the later seasons Susan drove me nuts. especially with painting a confession. I loved Bree the most!

[@maneliste]

I think the tension between the actressed led to that storyline we barely saw them together in season 7 and 8

[@diorjadore4887]

me too, I love Gaby and Bree. mostly Bree is my favorite ❤

[@PrincessPowerranger]

I was still a teenager but I couldnt understand why I hated Susan and I felt so bad for it, but dear God I couldnt stand her. I loved Bree we saw her growth, her strengh

[@mpazinambao2938]

Loooved Bree.

[@enriquesanchez9016]

Bree is such a fantastic character, i've always found her very likable and entertaining, especially since she became a better person with time.

[@user19200]

the worst character right after Edie

[@purplecatinlove1900]

I thought she was so annoying!! I think cause she was so fake Edie was always right about her

[@PrincessPowerranger]

@purplecatinlove1900 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣yup, that ain't nothing but facts😅

[@Suiter]

I feel there was a huge divide between Bree, Gabrielle/ Lynette, Susan. They all did awful things and were flawed, but I never felt like I was supposed to see Bree or Gabrielle as right or justified in all there actions. The show seemed willing to admit Bree was neurotic and intolerant while Gabrielle was spoiled and insensitive. Which made them much more enjoyable to watch. It felt like when Lynette or Susan did horrible things, we were supposed to relate to them and see how their actions were justified.

[@enriquesanchez9016]

Completely agree. The show tried WAY too hard to make us like Susan, especially in the earlier seasons. She was constantly doing shitty things and was never really punished for her actions.

[@theyellowshoe9741]

I hated Lynette so much 😂 and you're totally right. Every time she acted like a horrible person the show put Tom there to try and convince everyone it was because she was actually so caring 😒🙄🙄 I was so so happy when they finally let Tom see her for who she was and separated from her he always deserved so much better

[@katb-xp9in]

@@theyellowshoe9741she could never be happy and was tryna manipulate situations in almost every episode so i was happy about the ending for tom and lynette it made sense

[@jennifermassetti4670]

​@theyellowshoe9741 oh, come on, Tom was a childish man baby, she had to be strong for two because she had to raise him in addition to their noumerous children

[@theyellowshoe9741]

@ no 😂😂 she treated Tom like a child so she could control him. Theres even an episode where other people are reacting to how horribly she treats him and he says something to the effect of since her childhood was so chaotic she feels better when she controls him so he allows her to. Lynette WANTS Tom to act like that 😂when he left her and had his own independence he was fine lmao

[@efghd2624]

I've noticed that audiences tend to have a much higher tolerance for character flaws that are associated with masculinity (being emotionally closed off, focusing too much on work/ambitions, thinking they know everything and always have to "lead") than they have for flaws associated with femininity (being naive, being "too emotional", too focused on romance). Its why there was so much hate for Sansa on GoT. People will love a bloodthirsty girlboss over a confused little girl.

[@diamond852]

Many critical comments I've read about Sansa and my view on her are not based on her naivete, emotions, or romantic ambitions but on how poorly she treated Jon and the Septer and how willing she was to lie, which got Arya and Nymeria in trouble and cost the butcher kid and Lady their lives. You can be naive and emotional and romantic and still be a good person (character). Sansa was simply not a good person and she was a villain even later on in the story.

[@talesyuki]

@@diamond852 She's less villainous later. Early show Sansa would never have believed Arya over Littlefinger or cared if Jon lived or died.

[@ilisafonua2798]

​@@diamond852so your dislike of her was based solely on what she was like in the first season? Wasn't she a literal child? I feel like a lot of what she did after season one boiled down to just getting by. She did what most characters failed to do which is survive by any means possible. I don't really see what she did in the later seasons that was villainous. If you're talking about the books though, I haven't read all of them so let me know if that's the version you're referring to.

[@puddinpopsdoll1774]

​@@ilisafonua2798Agree. Sansa did not deserve the amount of hate, she was a child-victim-hostage of war

[@briana8088]

Ned told Arya that Sansa couldn't take sides, especially against Joffrey.

[@barbiquearea]

I couldn't stand the way she pressured Julie into keeping her baby rather than putting it up for adoption, and she even sabotaged her attempts to adopt the baby out. Honestly, what the hell is wrong with her? Did she honestly think that just because she had it relatively easy as a single mother, that the same would happen for Julie?

[@irondragonmaiden]

Especially since an unwilling parent is NOT the solution. That's what leads to abuse and neglect. Not to mention that things DID NOT turn out ok for Susan, since she basically parentified Julie to hell and back

[@jclyntoledo]

​@@irondragonmaidenYeah I hear you there but the parentification only happened once her parents got a divorce. Susan was not a single mom Julie's entire childhood and Susan apologized in like season 2 or 3 and told Julie things were different now. I agree the relationship was still too close but Susan did confide less in Julie and actually started being more of a parent. Also Susan had another kid and it seemed like she was doing better with him.

[@aeoligarlic4024]

Thanks for reminding me of a solid reason why i couldn't stand her. Some people here really made an argument about hating her bc her flaws are 'feminine traits'

[@Kiki128-pq]

Imagine in reality someone's first grandchild is gonna be put up for adoption. It would be horrendous

[@VidWatcher01]

I got to be honest, Susan got on my nerves alot of times. I was so glad she called out for choosing to be miserable over being happy by that park ranger to which she got pissed & took off by herself because she was all butt hurt about being told the truth about herself. That's why I was always more a Bree person

[@jclyntoledo]

Susan was literally the only character that was constantly being called out and actually self reflecting and becoming more self aware because of it. That's part of the reason I think it's hilarious that ppl still manage to project their own issues on to her and say she didn't have any self growth or learn. She was constantly having lessons and her character development was realistic.

[@prtdiva]

@@jclyntoledo all of the characters had self reflection. Bree was an alcoholic and went to rehab. Grabrielle compromised on children with Carlos and hustled when they lost their money. Lynette battled cancer. Susan focused on herself. Always. Left Julie alone several times to chase after Mike. Everything was always about her and she was never wrong. Everything was done to her apparently 😒

[@MrMt67859]

Susan is Carrie Bradshaw 2.0 with a parentified child and there sure are so many girls can relate to Julie. On the other hand, there are Reddits dedicated to hating Tom Scavo, 20 yrs after airing. (In my opinion he is the male Susan.)

[@barbiquearea]

Tom was a manchild yes. But he didn't stick his nose where it didn't belong or cause drama for anyone. Hell, the few times he was the reasonable spouse in their marriage, he tried to talk Lynette out of getting into other people's business.

[@hoematica5841]

You know I've never thought of it like that but I completely agree. Tom and Susan are written quite similarly.

[@enriquesanchez9016]

Tom is 100% the male Susan for sure, he's so ridiculously childish and immature.

[@MrMt67859]

@@barbiquearea yes, he didn’t mind even his own business. Every season totally indifferent to his own problems and only did something about it when shit hit the fan (an blaming Lynette for being controlling)

[@lamoskgr]

😂😂😂😂

[@PokhrajRoy.]

I loved the tension between Susan and Mike in the first season. Also, Julie was the MVP among the kids.

[@BallroomXtra]

I know that no one is going to see my comment, but I would really like The Take to do a video essay on Julie Mayer. She is incredibly complex and I think a lot of us who grew up needing to be another 'adult' in our family as children, could really speak to A LOT of us.

[@antonellagomez7194]

This

[@CandaceChambers]

i’m so happy i’m not alone in my susan hate. she was so clumsy and irresponsible it became ridiculous

[@muffinfighter3680]

Bro you're definitely not alone :D fairly popular take

[@CarlDillynson]

You’re not alone at all lol. In fact that is perhaps the most popular opinion among the DH community.

[@Me-wk3ix]

My thing is, Bree, Lynette, and Gabby are very different characters from season 1 to the end. They've grown, and things have touched them. Susan is the exact same person who is making the exact same foolish mistakes. She never really reflects. It's all about how hard the world has been on her.

[@jclyntoledo]

I disagree I think she definitely has character development and maybe it doesn't feel as obvious as with the other characters. I would persuade you to rewatch the series and see for yourself

[@skaterdude14b]

Came home from school, microwaved a lean cuisine, & watched Desperate Housewives on DVR every single day. craziest part is i’m straight 😅

[@violationoftheprimedirective]

This is adorable lol

[@selcatron]

not crazy this isn't normally my type of show but i watched whole thing front to back lol

[@Jen-Inspired]

Why is being straight crazy?

[@selcatron]

@@Jen-Inspired he was implying that it was crazy for him to have watched desperate housewives everyday as a heterosexual male lol

[@jclyntoledo]

​@@Jen-InspiredYeah I was lost to especially since I know plenty of straight men watched the show

[@gurengamer9053]

Susan is one of those character who seems to have panel "Loveable character", or ever "YOU MUST LOVE THIS CHARACTER", but they're act in fact so much like selfish brats. The're best for illustrating "Show, not (just) write".

[@joshuaserrato3495]

Every character on this show was a terrible person and that was part of the show’s appeal. But Susan was infuriating to watch because the majority of her issues were a direct result of her carelessness and clumsiness. Her character became formulaic, she would do something extremely stupid like paint the crime she and her friends committed, enter it in a contest, and then they all become prime suspects in a murder. That’s not hate based on misogyny, that’s just her being so overly stupid that it hurts to root for her. And the writers really pissed me off by turning the girls on Bree instead of Susan during that storyline. Bree was the biggest ride and die and the disrespect she got in the final season was unbearable to watch.

[@jo_jo_jo]

Oh lord, not her painting the murder and then exhibiting it. I almost had forgotten it. A truly stupid decision there.

[@itsbritneybyotch7471]

Tbf, her art teacher was being a POS towards her, she was silly for painting that but she didn’t want the painting to be shown to public, still didn’t have to be so rude to Bree after all that tho

[@jclyntoledo]

​@@itsbritneybyotch7471Exactly! It made sense in the show, also she didn't want it to be public

[@RyanCharem-eh3yv]

And extremely drama queen and promiscuous. She basically is useless as a human being. Teri hatcher ia just super annoying to look at anyway . Her face is so dry and old and her eyes always look like she’s smoking crack. Super annoying woman 😊

[@Beanerlicious1]

yeah im currently watching the show for my first time and i was so confused how Bree was the one who got in shunned, she literally was trying to be a good friend and come through for Carlos after he learned of what happened to his mom

[@ДанилоЦвјетковић]

I find it weird how people look on 2000s with distain, yet those shows are still being watched, while I honestly cannot remember any recent show I wanted to rewatch, or the one that was relevant 2 months after release.

[@marieborremans]

can we also take a moment to recognise how good Julie was

[@maneliste]

Not in the late seasons her getting pregnant andthe whole adoption story felt weird

[@aspyn.j_]

i NEVER understood the skyler hate.

[@enriquesanchez9016]

Yeah, it never made sense, it was always pure misogyny.

[@DerekDiSantis]

It's you! I love your Carrie and big videos lol!

[@aspyn.j_]

@@DerekDiSantis ayyyyy!!! hahaha thank you!

[@perfectallycromulent]

she was the voice of sanity. the audience didn't want sanity, for Walter to calm down and try to go back to some sort of normal life, they wanted to see him go crazy and blow things up. so she was perceived by the audience as their enemy, the one who wanted to ruin their fun.

[@kilamoblack7532]

Besides her constant nagging, she frequently emasculated and disrespected her husband, often showing greater respect and admiration for her brother-in-law than for him. Even on his birthday, she gave him a completely uninspired and lackluster h**job, devoid of enthusiasm.

[@Noouuuuu]

I didn't know how to properly voice it before, but I'm currently watching BoJack Horseman for the first time, and as I watch BoJack do his thing I'm getting a lot of the feelings that I had for Susan; a very neurotic person with insecurities and mental health issues, and they keep making the same horrible decisions which is much to the detriment of the people around them. Both also always feel bad about the decisions they make, but they keep making them because of said insecurities and poor mental health. You sympathise a lot with them, but you can't help but dislike them. The difference between BoJack Horseman (BJH) and Desperate Housewives (DH), is that BJH very explicitly points to that while BoJack is a victim of his childhood, he is actively hurting not just himself but the people around him who care about him, and is therefore not portrayed in a good light. The audience doesn't need to point out his toxicity, because the show already does that. DH doesn't do the same with Susan.

[@katieeytch7688]

Excellent top notch analysis.

[@NeungVDW]

I'm confused with the comment that said Susan was hated because she was written by men. I understand that it probably happens a lot but this isn't the best example if you want to push this narrative cause Marc Cherry write all characters in the show and only Susan was hated this much.

[@samanthagupta]

Facts

[@seeleunit2000]

What's so confusing ? It's not often that men can actually write women well. So what's so difficult to understand about this ?

[@NeungVDW]

@seeleunit2000 but in this case, Marc Cherry also write all other character and it's so well loved. Only Susan's character was bad. Then this doesn't make sense cause it's only 1/4 bad character or 1/6 if you count Katherine and Edie.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

9:07 Miss Voiceover SNAPPED! Go off, Queen!

[@spique32]

And for good reason lol! I started watching Breaking Bad much later, after I had heard from others about how cool it was to see Walter stick it to man, and Skyler was so despicable for acting so holier-than-thou. Most of the time when watching the show, I was scratching my head thinking, so when do I start rooting for Walter? But more than that, by the time I finished, I could not for my life understand the vitriol that followed Skyler! Skyler was flawed yes, but to hate her so much that the actress Anna Gunn received death threats?! smh

[@adamsmoberly]

It’s ironically funny that Desperate Housewives inspired Pretty Little Liars (more so from the novels) and Susan’s counterpart in PLL is Aria, who I also think became similarly disliked. Each of the Liars and Housewives had their counterparts (Spencer/Bree, Hanna/Gabby, Emily/Lynette) and with Aria’s big issue being Ezra as her BF, it’s similar to Susan and Mike, which I think in both shows their love lives were their big plots and I think it rubbed the fans the wrong way (I mean who doesn’t want to forgive your teacher/boyfriend from willingly pretending he didn’t know you were a minor when you got together and then you learn he knew your age all along, because he was using you to write a book on your missing friend, who also dated him when she was even younger). Love both shows and I don’t hate Aria nor Susan, but god they irk me a lot. I’m more of a Spencer/Bree/Lynette guy and their drama.

[@enriquesanchez9016]

Bree and Spencer were my favorites from both shows so i guess it does make sense. Both of them pretty much felt like the main characters of their respective shows after a while, despite Susan/Aria being intended to be the main characters in both shows's first seasons. And Lynette was my second favorite Housewife.

[@mrabidos2173]

Ugh

[@jo_jo_jo]

I was the biggest fan of the show when it premiered and I rewatched it again a couple of years ago. And let me tell you that you can tell there's a shift on how writers treat Susan's character between season one and the rest. In my first run I wasn't aware of it, but if you look the show closely, you can't deny it. My guess is that Susann was intended to be the main character (in the line of Carrie Bradshaw). However, as the time went by (and the drama unfold among the cast, as is well-known), the producers probably realize that her actress, Terry Hatcher, wasn't the ideal one to bring an all-female cast all together. Therefore, they started to give her less weigh in the show and divide it between the rest of the ladies: Lynette, Gabrielle and, above all, Brie. Her character got the jackpot then and remained the true key character of the show.

[@enriquesanchez9016]

Bree was pretty much the main "Housewife" from season 2 onward i feel, and the show benefited a lot from it. She got most of the juicier storylines, she was never boring.

[@rachels.8051]

Came here to say this. Terry Hatcher is (from what I’ve heard) unlikeable - at a certain point the dynamic she had with the rest of the cast had to affect the show’s story.

[@jo_jo_jo]

@@rachels.8051 Exactly. The producers surely didn't want to kill her, as she had been introduced as the main character. But they probably realized very quickly that they couldn't let Terry Hatchter had all that power on the show. So they started to quit her some gravity and redistributed it among the other girls. I mean, what happened with the cover of 'Vanity fair' is infamous: the producers told the magazine that by no means could Terry be the center figure. They were clearly moving from a main character show to an ensemble cast one.

[@staedlerok]

@@jo_jo_jowow i would have never think about it

[@citydweller99]

And also the fans and ABC pressured Cherry and producers to upgrade Edie into being a 5th main character when she was only intended to just be a thorn in Susan's side.

[@menijna]

Susan was a terrible mother, a terrible friend, a drama magnet and had no intention of growing past the clumsiness of a 13 year old.

[@barbiquearea]

Edie can be a bitch, but she was absolutely spot on about Susan.

[@barbiquearea]

This was why it was so satisfying when Julie finally had enough and chewed her out for being the immature and helpless mother that she is.

[@jclyntoledo]

​@@barbiqueareaOkay and in that episode Susan admitted that Julie was right and apologized and said that she was actually going to act like the parent and be dependable

[@uma.n2680]

I would choose Susan anytime over Lynette, she annoyed me the most, and Susan was flawed for sure, but i liked her optimism, naivety and hopeless romanticism. But Brie really was the best of the show, i couldn't relate to her, but i wanted to be her, she's in my opinion the strongest link of the foursome.

[@AlexisAngelb6n]

Julie always seemed like she was the mom and susan the kid that always annoyed me.

[@alladin_payne]

Susan's biggest villain act, painting all the walls in her house taupe.

[@jo_jo_jo]

That girl was definitely asking for help.

[@jclyntoledo]

😂😂😂, Thank you!

[@jclyntoledo]

​@@jo_jo_joYeah she was pretty depressed about the one mom and daughter dying and being divorced bc of that accident

[@davidbrennan5973]

Dude wtf was the “herrr” at 2:37 😂😂😂

[@lindangculu4027]

😅😅😅😅😅😅😅

[@pauletow]

looool

[@barbiquearea]

You know how in the first episode she brought mac and cheese to Mary Alice's wake and it was so horrible that it made Mike question how anyone could mess up such a simple dish. To me, it would have been fitting if during Mike funeral, she served mac and cheese but this time it was delicious and everyone complimented her on it. At least that would have shown us some growth on her part since she met Mike.

[@ilisafonua2798]

Please do a video on the hate that the Game of Thrones fanbase had toward Sansa. I never understood it because I was always sympathetic toward her character and her circumstances.

[@greyLeicester]

I think it was more the way Sophie played her. Towards the end, I blame the writers... after everything she went through, she made some ridiculous mistakes and decisions...it's like she hadnt learnt anything after all

[@arkoudanthrope]

@@greyLeicesterI would have written the same thing you did if you hadn’t. She did not learn much from all that she underwent; it was insanely frustrating. I felt the same about Jesse on Breaking Bad, to the point where I uttered the phrase, “Oh FFS, Jesse” to myself a lot while watching the show.

[@TemariNaraannaschatz]

@@greyLeicester Book reader here: same thing, people hate on the female characters way more. I've heard way too many times people defend Tywin and then complain about the mistakes of Arya, Catelyn, Sansa or Daenerys. While they defend the guy who drowned 300 men, women and children and had his 13- year old daughter in law g*ng-r*ped. But they definitly cut some of her smartes moments out (she legit outsmarts Tyrion in the books at one point) and later one gave her a completly different consensical storyline that ended in the generally bad writing of the later seasons. Book Sansa learns her mistake after Ned's execution, that everything she'd been taught about royality is in fact bs and even playing by the book (when she pleads for Ned, is nice to Joffrey and Cersei when they are in the wrong) does not work she just stops trusing people. She just spends most of her time afterwards trying to survive. And not to forget she's 11-13, unlike in the show where she's 13 in season 1 and a grown women by the end.

[@panana6084]

It's actually interesting how the show whitewashed her and tried to make her less unlikable, but it turned her into a weird mix of multiple characters (book!sansa, show!sansa; Jeyne Poole; Fake Arya...) and it just didn't work. Suddenly, all the smart characters that we have established as intelligent throughout the show are stupider than sansa and praise her brain. A character often portrayed as capable leader is less fit for the position because sansa is suddenly more skilled even if we don't see much of her training. That's one of the biggest problems with D&D version of sansa. They didn't let her see any actual growth from her. They just shove her down her throat as the smartest and most capable leader who deserve her crown more than any other. And it's not the best way to please and fandom who enjoy political plot/scheme and some kind of good character development. Personally, I totally understand the sansa hate in both books and shows. In the books she's very unlikable even in the later ones. Kinda classist, completely fine with provoking the death of people (Micah and Robbin) for her own gain (marriage in both cases). And she's like susan in the sense she doesn't really own up to her bs. Meanwhile, a character like Cersei (or in DH Gabby) will do bad things and not hide that she's doing this for her own benefits. People tend to prefer bad people who assume than "good" ones who use 82828 excuse to justify themselves. In the show after S4, they completely ruined her progression imo. Which create this weird "sansa is learning; actually no she's a victim because she believed LF; she's free; actually no she go back to LF BUT she's more wary of him now; wait no she actually believe him when he say she should be afraid of Arya; it's ok Bran saved the day..." Until the end where she became queen and it doesn't feel earn because we never saw her actually learn anything about leading, playing the game or just being the right choice for the North. She was just the only available candidate since Bran became King, Jon was exile and Arya left (+Rickon death and no Great Northern Conspiracy). Also I never liked the whole "sansa was a kid!" argument since her own fans love to sh!t on Daenerys or even Arya. When one was the same age as sansa in the books and the other was younger. So what? Only sansa can be criticised?

[@fderfegtgtrrt949]

I hated Susan so much when I was a teenager. Now that I am an adult although sometimes I found her character annoying, I still think she wasn't that bad compared to predator Gaby. Susan season 1 and season 8 are definitely different. I hated her as a mom and how she always wasn't the mature one, but was glad to see her support to Julie, although think it wasn't right to pressure her daughter to have that baby. Also liked her and Paul storyline, I feel like this storyline really showed her empathy for the first time. Also when she was trying to build a relationship with her father, I thought that was cute and they could have continued on that. I really wish instead of showing and shoving annoying romance storylines with Mike and other guys over and over again, they really could have done sth interesting with her character . Thinking now, I still like that she wasn't overly ambitious or super rich lady like other housewives, on that part many of us can relate, it just boils down that compared to other characters she was really boring and didn't have super controversial storylines too. As for Gaby, just because she 's played by gorgeous Eva Longoria, many ppl including me tend to ignore her flaws, but she doesn't grow much after season 5. Season 5 showed such a great character development for her and her storyline with the real daughter too. But except these parts, she remained selfish asf and not in a good way. It was ok for first few seasons, but damn it got so annoying , that by season 8 she didn't change much and was willing to almost throw her best friend to the jail and wasn't even thankful to her. Don't even get me started on John situation, can't believe that never got addressed and was always treated as a joke. She is definitely hilarious and charming and had good moments and story arcs occassionally. Season 5 Gaby was definitely my favorite,too bad it didn't last long, but it was great seeing her supporting whole family like that. I liked her storie arc with Angie, their friendship was interesting. Obviously arc with her real daughter and childhood trauma were one of the strongest arcs. Also I loved that she also started exploring her career as a personal shopper, they could have done that earlier too lol. Also damn, they really didn't give a shit about her 2nd daughter didn't they. Why they haven't done anything to her?Just my biggest disappointment that she stayed the same selfish Gaby. Like she didn't even properly acknowledged or apologized to Bree.I get it that other housewives kinda got involved in that crime, but damn it was her situation, Bree owed her nothing and still put her own life on the line, it just really showed that she wasn't a good friend after all.

[@7Sensed]

So happy you have this series about one of my favorite shows. It is iconic and still has a huge following so many years after it aired.

[@MyHairMyHobby]

Susan, Lynette and Tom used to have me yelling at the tv

[@Stormy_Cloud]

Tom and Lynette were both miserable all the time. Misery loves company. Majority of the time Lynette doesnt even like her own kids.

[@lilil9752]

you are not making me like Susan, on the first episode the set a house on fire (an accident, alright) and was distresed but sported a huge smile when she found out the guy she sent to the hospital wasn't Mike. Sure, one thing is being relieved but she didn't seem concerned she send someone to the hospital. She is a horrible person and you are not convincing me otherwise.

[@barbiquearea]

Amen. Susan is someone who says she wants to stand on her own two feet but the few times she tries, she fails miserably, mainly because she is unmotivated and has grown too comfortable in letting others clean up her messes for her.

[@barbiquearea]

Also when she accidentally knocked down the candle and started the fire, she just got out of there like a kid who just broke their mother's expensive vase, not thinking that she was putting other people's lives in danger. She didn't even shout to Edie to warn her that her house was burning down. Its no wonder Edie hates her with a passion. She could have died in that fire.

[@theknowledgeseeker9966]

Creating an unlikeble female character isn´t misogony, and neither is disliking a specific female character. The word misogony gets thrown around without being defined or explained, and it feels kinda cheap and easy to put every form of dislike of a specific woman into the phenomenon of misogony. Susan is annoying because she´s oblivious and makes other people´s problems about herself.

[@kellystewart4830]

So glad you guys finally did a video on Susan!! She was meant to be "the sweet one" (in fact,didn't she refer to herself that way once? Just like she said she was "very popular," had "a lovely singing voice" & other undeserved self-compliments?). But she was actually a really bad person-- narcissistic, addicted to drama, full of excuses, a bad mom to Julie, and a bad friend to almost everyone. She betrayed Bree when Mike was accused of murder (as well as her own fiance), & she betrayed ALL of her friends in the final season... over and over again. Contacting the widow of the man Carlos killed, drawing attention to herself by purposely getting arrested, even painting a picture of the crime scene! She kept saying her behavior stemmed from guilt, but the pattern proved that every time it seemed the drama was over, Susan risked EVERYONE'S freedom in an effort to stir up more! Terrible woman. 😈

[@brewedtea6063]

I had always liked Susan and Lynette the best. Susan had so many flaws, but still, she was a sweetheart (not the right adjective, I know). She had some things that made her likable to me. I was surprised when I learned so many people hate Susan. The biggest flaw of her was how she was with Julie.

[@jclyntoledo]

Thank you! Also yes she was a sweetheart. I think the fans who hate Susan are really just projecting their own issues on to her. The more ppl complain about her, the more it sounds like they hate her bc of her pretty priveledge and her positivity that got her things they don't think is fair. I bet those fans probably were upset that Beth Young donated her kidney and would have rathered have Susan killed off. I also think a character like Susan was crucial to the show. It wouldn't make sense without Susan.

[@katarinakrnjevic8183]

I never hated Susan but i think they tried to make to funny . Characters like Susan belong in sitcoms.

[@PetraBabulal]

Susan became unlikeable because the storylines became crazy. Who asks their kid to fall off a bike? Who burns down a neighbour's home? I dont blame the character though. I blame the writers.

[@jclyntoledo]

She doesn't burn down a neighbors house, she's the one that got her house burnt by Edie. Also, in the episode where she acts MJ to fall off the bike because she doesn't want to hurt Mike's feelings, she later admits that she was wrong and apologizes to both of them. We never see her do anything like that again.

[@chantalreneehayles7976]

Ok I get why ppl hate Susan but also out of all the housewives she’s done the least amount of bad things..like irl I’d be friends with Susan over any of the other women lol..Lynette is probably a close second

[@jclyntoledo]

I mostly agree but I think the hate is misplaced. I would definitely be friends with Susan IRL I'm not sure about Lynette because she has issues with control and it's too much of a manipulator 😬😬.

[@AYYOluvable]

I have been binge watching Desperate Housewives. What I think it is about Susan is that she went out her way to make things more complicated than it needed to be. But I do think they punished her harshly.

[@barbiquearea]

The other women also created and caused problems of their own making. But overtime they actually learned from their mistakes and took steps to make themselves better people. As the seasons went on, Bree was no longer this wound up matron who demanded perfection, Lynette stopped resenting her family holding her back and embraced the joys of family life, while Gabby learned that money and material possession wasn't all that mattered in the world. The other three housewives of Wisteria Lane experienced a lot of character growth and self improvement over eight seasons, while Susan didn't.

[@AYYOluvable]

@@barbiquearea True, but I guess what I meant by the first statement is that unlike the other wives who is already dramatic scenarios, Susan was is in every day problems that could be solved by using common sense. She went out of her way to make things complicated. Even from the start when she was attracted to Mike she didn't have to go to Edie's house to interrupt them. When she was caught between Mike and Ian she knew she wanted Mike and just chose Ian because IDK. Girl didn't even have enough class to not use the same wedding day as she already planned with Ian was and mad at Gabby for using that day after she already cancelled everything. She ping pongs between parent and friend when it came to Julie and dump Mike on the regular because she was bored.

[@pinkpuffunicorn]

Your examples on countering the claim that happiness kills drama are all sit-coms (the office, friends, modern family), a really different format . In dramas happiness does kind of kill the drama, it doesn't kill comedy the same way.

[@Buffy8Fan]

I disagree. The whole show, by the creators admittance, was meant to be watched more tongue in cheek than if it was a serious show. So, everything about all characters (and they all have their likability and dislikability issues) are broad comedy. If watched like any other show the best characters are the older couple who move away in S1 because things were getting off, and no one even noticed they left.

[@samanthagupta]

Facts

[@jclyntoledo]

Thank you!

[@jclyntoledo]

The show was literally in the drama category and some stuff was literally for comedic purposes

[@dimitrixiv8881]

I love Susan! Sometimes we need to accept that this kind of people exist and enjoy the ride. 😃

[@dimitrixiv8881]

hate Linette instead

[@derred723]

I think the Skylar White hate for being whiny was always stupid. The one thing i would say object to is the characterization by some people that Skylar is an entirely innocent victim. Because she is THE money launderer. She voluntarily participates at one, and takes massive steps to secure a facility to launder money. And then actively carries it out. In terms of RICO she is a major criminal participant. She was not always volunteering but the fact is she had time to run and tell the police many times and chose not to. So she was not bad cause she was whiny. She was not bad for not always supporting Walter. She was not bad. She was also not an innocent victim. She was a conspirator in a apparently in one of the US's largest drug gangs.

[@irondragonmaiden]

Frankly, it was that hypocrisy that made her unbearable. If she was a conspirator and was an advisor to Walter and her objections were more in line with "you're going to get us caught!", I think more people would like her. It's her attitude of "oh, you don't care about me" or acting like the drugs were the problem and then turning around and participating and profiting off of it that makes her unbearable. That same hypocrisy is there in the Brother's Sun: where the "lived a normal life" brother (his family is Triad) wanted to have his cake (be on the moral soapbox about how being a criminal family is wrong) and eat it (but he sure as hell LOVED the perks of having so much money gave him). It's even pointed out in the show that he's a hypocrite. And the guy is hated by the rather small fandom because of his hypocrisy, even those that do agree with the antagonists who want to take down his Triad family.

[@kSchmidt583]

although i do agree a marriage could be successful on tv. i do think it should be noted that the couples examples are not from dramas all from comedies.

[@samanthagupta]

Facts

[@Rroth42]

A "successful" marriage also is boring by TV show standards, fighting and drama is usually what keeps shows going. Not a couple doing the boring mundane everyday life thing for years on end.

[@blondie9422]

I’m a woman and all my friends watched Desp Housewives. None of us hated Susan?? We found her funny and a bit silly

[@michellestella7477]

Should have looked closer

[@marianap.h3961]

Good for you

[@jclyntoledo]

​@@michellestella7477No, maybe you should look closer and we watch the series. Susan is the least problematic and is actually the best wife/gf and friend on the show and a decent mom. Notice I didn't say the best bc I don't think anyone was the best mom. Susan was the only one who wasn't mean and constantly trying to manipulate their spouse and or kids.

[@blondie9422]

@@michellestella7477 They are all problematic to some degree. However, I found Susan the most harmless overall

[@enriquesanchez9016]

I'm so glad to have discovered in recent years that i'm not alone in my hatred of Susan, she was one of the most irritating characters i've seen in a LONG time. Bree on the other hand was always my favorite from season 1, now THAT is an interesting and entertaining character who showed a lot of growth despite her flaws. Susan in comparison was just... bad, especially since she was supposed to be the "nice" one despite being so insanely selfish.

[@stacy2785]

If a character doesn’t have a moral failing, what is there for them to do? That’s basic writing.

[@jadeelise7982]

Carrie was not a villain when SATC aired. She is now that ppl are reflecting on the show and its storyline

[@Beanerlicious1]

I started off the show liking Susan but towards the end her character pissed me off especially when it came to what Her and Mike did to Katherine. I related to Katherine and what she went through with that as I had been led on by someone who also went back to their ex after being the anti-susan. Ever since then I despised her character and disliked Mike who originally was my favorite. I don’t like the way they wrote Julie’s character as she became less grounded and responsible but it makes sense because her rebellious years were put aside to be the adult between her and her mother and she grew up too fast that it crashed down on her later on. ps: thats why i loved Edie, she always called her out on her bs, Edie wasn’t perfect snd she knew that and she was real not fake, i was sad they killed her off

[@cardwitch91]

What makes it worse is that originally Mike was going to marry Katherine, and Susan was the one who was going to have the nervous breakdown. But Susanstans essentially scared Cherry into changing it. I swear when I think about Susan in DH, she never really went through a true growth and everything always gets miraculously fixed for her. It’s so irritating

[@Beanerlicious1]

@ WOWWWW!!! I hate Susan more now. I agree she had everything so easy such a damsel in distress ugh

[@vanzc7920]

It's House's and Veronica Mars' 20th anniversaries. If you guys need something to talk about.

[@GiulianaBruna]

When your main character has main character syndrom.

[@fourcatsandagarden]

I think in Orange is the New Black, I hated Piper BECAUSE I knew she was supposed to be the 'us' of the show, our 'relatable' character, and she just absolutely drove me up the wall. If she was another member of the cast I probably wouldn't have minded her as much.

[@katztoffelbrei6780]

Come on, ALL housewives were terrible people and did very villain-like and often not mature actions. And Bree was a way worse mother than Susan 🤐

[@josefinebliss2801]

Bree had aamzing character development

[@enriquesanchez9016]

Bree became a better person though, which is not the case for Susan.

[@BKME19]

I think it didn’t help that Teri Hatcher had rumors of not being a kind cast mate during the filming of the show. Unfortunately, rumors about drama on the set can affect how the characters are perceived.

[@jclyntoledo]

Yeah, maybe that's why I like her character bc I didn't realize that was a thing when it was airing

[@ІринаЛевченко-з5б]

Unpopular opinion: I don’t hate Susan. The other housewives constantly did terrible things but they still were fans favorite (Gaby and Bree).

[@helenablavatsky9136]

Agreed.

[@diamond852]

Bree was understandable and other than lying about her son hitting her friend's MIL, which she arguably redeemed when she protected Carlos the same way and paid for by losing her business and marriage, she didn't do terrible things. Gaby was horrible and I find it telling when people claim she's their favourite. Also Rachel from friends.

[@enriquesanchez9016]

Bree is a WAY better human being than Susan despite her flaws and it's not even close.

[@barbiquearea]

I think that's because the other housewives had a lot of growth and character development over the eight seasons the show was on. Susan pretty much stayed the same all throughout its run.

[@brontiq]

Yes they did, but they also kind of owned it and it kind of made THEM relatable. Susan was the one who was supposed to be relatable but did horrible things she either tried to jusity or cover up.

[@therealtosis]

I never hated Susan.. I saw her as a comic relief.. and Julie turned out amazing, so maybe she wasn't so horrible as a mother, maybe while she was married to Carl she was doing a really good job. As for Marc Cherry's problematic behaviour, sure he may have been toxic and dramatic, but when it comes to Nicolete Sheridan's lawsuit, that was bs, he didn't assault her, he was just showing her how to smack someone in a scene and he didn't even really smack her, he was just showing it.. he then proceeded to apologize many times to her, but Nicolette was determined.. generally Nicolette Sheridan has quite the reputation of being very difficult and borderline hostile, and that's why she was written off both Desperate Housewives and Dynasty.. maybe even more that I'm not aware of..

[@jclyntoledo]

I agree about Susan. Idk about the other thing but yeah it's possible there wasn't real drama there and she(Nicolette) left for other reasons.

[@arra8464]

Its not about misogyny everyone hated Jack in lost for the same reasons, being a narcissistic jerk, and Charlotte is loved by many in Satc but she is just as feminine

[@Katherine-xz4qi]

The hate for Susan is just projection. The main cast was nicely flawed.

[@ccormore]

Susan is my favourite, and I have no shame in admitting it. I understand all the points against her, but I must say it really annoys me that you use words such as "misogyny", basically painting everyone who disagrees with your views as a misogynist. So anyone who dares to like Susan is now basically problematic. It's not fair to argue like that. I'm definitely a decent human being, and Susan is a character that is simply to my taste. I like all the drama surrounding her, and I find her super funny.

[@raedusoleil6375]

I cannot staaaaand Susan! IMO she’s the worst of the main characters on the show. It always annoyed tf out of me that she just walks into peoples houses even after burning down Edie’s house after walking into it! Then in the last season when she painted burying the body then had the nerve to get mad that the people who were handling dealing w their crime well didn’t share everything that happened with her when she was running around intentionally being arrested! Ugh her character makes me so mad lmao Mike can catch this smoke too 😂 he was awfullll

[@gestionhumana8743]

Ppl with supporting role in their lives usually hate her. She is a star like it or not.

[@enriquesanchez9016]

...are you ok?

[@michellestella7477]

Do you need an adult?!

[@mwwkwnwkm]

i never cared enough to hate any of them 😭 hating a character ruins the whole series

[@jclyntoledo]

Thank you! Unless someone is written as a true villain then no. Also in Desperate Housewives, all of the characters are very complex so even when they are the villain it's hard to actually hate them.

[@jclyntoledo]

I wish more ppl thought like this bc I'm constantly surprised that ppl watch shows to find a villain they can hate

[@mickfloyd1535]

I love Susan oh well😂😂

[@michellestella7477]

Ugh

[@jclyntoledo]

Same! She had one of the best and healthiest marriages and was actually a good friend and was very genuine and friendly. If you compare all of the other women in romantic relationships she was one of the few who wasn't mean or playing games of manipulation. She also tried to be a good mom and was the most self aware. And for those who thinks she wasn't a good mom she literally begged to work at a private school even if it was a janitor or lunch lady just so she could afford the tuition for MJ.

[@nimbus2113]

It makes sense, it also reminds me a lot of Peggy Hill in King of the Hill. In the beginning she was pretty normal if not a compassionate voice for Hank, but as the series progressed and they tried to give her more depth, she became more outrageous and irritating. And in response the writers seemed to double down on that lol

[@Alikalix]

I don't understand this need for role models we have. In a soap opera... Maybe the show's premise wasn't to portray real women, but simply to entertain people? Maybe it's a way to understand our parents or even grandparents, - instead of teaching us how to be, - and how to come to terms with it, how to stop endlessly trying to adjust our parent's mindsets to 21st century, and rather exemplify what's here to love about them? because not every parent is gonna ever change, no matter how relatable to them the soap opera's character may be... Well but still, interesting points... :) :*

[@PrincessQ-fj9ly]

You're right. Although I think people want role models because they want someone to look up to. Understandable, but we need to remember that we can't expect role models on a show that's supposed to be about the drama. 😅

[@Mustafa70116]

The actress did voice the Beldam in Coraline really well!!!

[@theamazingdoubleA]

“Because of heeerrrr!” 😂😂😭

[@animesjogoseseriesclassica8282]

I never actually watched, i always thought that this was one of those shows where everyone is at least kinda of a asshole so there is no main villain. 😂

[@le9065]

Random Breaking Bad comment:) Skylar wasn't disliked so much just for "whininess" as is often cited, it's because she wanted things both ways (moral superiority while also having the benefits of a drug empire). She was a hypocrite who went whichever way benefitted her most (willing to sell out her own sister and brother in law). Walt was evil, but he went full measure (bad reference but couldn't resist:) whereas Skylar was pretty spineless when you think about it.

[@enriquesanchez9016]

The problem is: this insane hatred her character got was already happening in season 1 so that argument doesn't add up.

[@le9065]

@enriquesanchez9016 That actually doesn't invalidate it, because likely people saw those qualities in season 1(I sure did).She (in my opinion) was kinda whiney/a bit annoying the first season, and she leaned into that more as the series unfolded. BB did an amazing job of showing how characters (for better or worse) became more their true selves with time. Skylar showed signs of whininess/weakness/being an opportunist early on. I think (probably an unpopular opinion!) her sister was the opposite. She started out pretty darn annoying with a few good qualities deep down and showed who she really was as time went on (super loyal to Hank, and very strong).

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

Character flaws which cause dreary, stagnation are more annoying than ones which still allow progress. Since they prevent any hope of things getting better 1 day.

[@StaceyLoveller]

Ugh I just started rewatching 💅🏼

[@Raccoon_in_helmet]

She always said “I’m a mess” and then do nothing about that. I hate it

[@bibobelle]

I’ve seen a lot of analysis done on female characters. Will there ever be an analysis of male characters?

[@missoliviajordan]

This is the show they should reboot. Not the others!

[@r.d.493]

I would like to think that if Susan had been imagined at the right time, perhaps she would have had the decency to actually bake cookies for new neighbors and not hold their dog captive to look like the hero in order to compensate for awkward behavior upon finding out that they were gay. Her boyfriend might also have proposed to her out of love instead of to avoid being deported.

[@LazarL]

I liked her as a character in a story, she's not as monstrous as immature parents can get. I am sure it's another thing when Susan is your parent.

[@bluestrife28]

I really did spend much of the show going “wtf Susan!!?!?!” But I grew up on Lois and Clark and just couldn’t ever fully hate her.

[@juancarlosurrutiacuevas7918]

Unpopular opinion, Susan grows more than any other character and at least for me Susan represents the DESPERATE character the most, the idea of that kind of characters in the series its to show can grow up.

[@enriquesanchez9016]

No, she pretty much never grows, she remains the same helpless immature brat from beginning to end. Bree is the character that grows the most and it's not even close.

[@jclyntoledo]

Thank you OP! I have no idea why everyone is hating Susan. It feels like Susan is the most feminine and possibly leans into the helpless trope at times but in the show it's pointed out a lot and she does listen and grow from it.

[@explorativesam9805]

The episode where Susan chases Mike down the street, apologizing for sending his son away to protect her own daughter, made me feel pity for her. It wasn’t a case of "good riddance." Maybe, just maybe, not all of Susan's character is an inhumane, exaggerated caricature after all.

[@TheSassyCigarette]

Not properly talking about Edie here is a massive disservice. The Susan hate is SO valid and not for the misogyny against her, but the misogyny OF her. She was the absolute worst to Edie when she was just as promiscuous. Susan was HORRIBLE to every single woman on the show at one point or another. It was really vile. Susan was really vile.

[@jclyntoledo]

That's not even close to true. She was mean to Edie twice. The first time was 100% unwarranted and avoidable bc all she had to do was not date Eddie's crush. The second time was an accident bc she thought Carl and Edie broke up and that Carl wanted to give things another chance. Also Gaby does the same thing when Edie dates Carlos so why don't you also hate Gaby for that? 🤔... The only other times Susan is mean is when it threatens her family. Most of the time she actually learns from it and makes amends. I don't see the other main characters doing that.

[@DungForever]

Susan became insufferable because Terri Hatcher demanded that she be the lead in every way. She demanded to be in the front on photoshoots, she demanded more pay, she basically made it very clear to the cast and crew that she was better than all of them so of course she started getting written that way. Of course Susan was written more closely to Terri.

[@pinkysaroha5231]

Susan, my character is amazing. The screenwriter wrote it really good character it fits for the show.

[@panicwithcompulsion]

TL;DR: It's because she's toned down and 'normal' within the show, but she still a character. She makes terrible choices, is always involved in drama, and is a huge AH to everyone for the sake of Plot. How can we like and identify with someone that we would *hate* IRL? I think it's because she's SUPPOSED to be normal, but because it's a drama-type tv show she isn't always normal. She still has to be dramatic and make incredibly bad choices for the purpose of the show. So it is going to lead to us trying to see her in a normal light despite the fact that she is still not within the bounds of normal due to the drama. We imagine dealing with a Susan in our normal life and rightfully hate how much work it would be to exist in the same space as someone dramatic like that. Rightfully, we hate her for it. The only normal characters are the ones without names. Trying to make us try to emotionally fit into a world that is too toxic for normal people is going to lead to hating that character. Normal people would have never involved themselves with the neighbors and their nonsense to begin with

[@SpookySammy]

Susan annoyed me. The way she made Julie keep her baby when Julie didn't want it just because she wanted to be a Grandmother. Susan was definitely a 'me, me, me' character and never grew.

[@pinkysaroha5231]

She’s amazing amazing characters it fit a show and if it’s a storyline season, I watch all eight season of her. She has fantastic. How the show writer write her in. She’s not the villain. She’s a perfect cast for the right character.

[@oitotis]

Nah, she burned down Edie's house and expected her to be fine with it?? Nahhhhhh

[@PauloCesarLira5]

Susan is by far my least favorite of the main girls, but I still enjoy her. When the video talks about how cathartic it is when Julie stand up for herself, I feel the same when Susan does that to Sophie, her mother. I think it's so obvious that the characters are reflexions of their parents, either by turning into them (Susan, Bree) or trying so desperately to avoid turning into them (Lynette, Gaby). So I don't hate Susan, because she is her mother's daughter, unfortunately. She is a grown woman that acts like a teenager most of the times, that's what's annoying. But when she acts like an adult, she's great.

[@cenemoh2002-k5k]

That's absurd. I love the character of Susan Mayer. She's amazing, humane, sensitive, and creative, but she's trapped in a dull, narrow-minded, suburban life that crushes all hopes and suppresses all dreams and ambitions.

[@enriquesanchez9016]

Susan is certainly not "sensitive and humane", she's insanely selfish and would go insane on people if she felt she was "wronged" in any way. And then she would pretend to be the victim.

[@tonyjunior-thefirstgentlem410]

I agree that she was in a bad place and she was put upon, but she became her worst enemy creating some of the biggest problems that she ever had to face.

[@BellesView]

Susan used to be my favorite. But now I see how whiny she was. She was very needy. Always a damsel in distress.

[@Herbalist_Jay]

yup... still hate this character... i could tolerate a weak women... but a weak, naive and self centered woman that refuses to question herself, that's where i draw the line.... freakin pathetic

[@MahyLune]

8:25 thank you ❤❤❤❤

[@jazzyjam1225]

And don't forget when she almost killed her soon to be mother in law! That made me laugh tho 😂

[@mochajocabed]

Maybe I need to rewatch it but wasn't it weird how everyone got an ending flashforward besides Susan

[@ianvd6454]

Please make a video on Supernatural series from the early 2000s

[@ilisafonua2798]

Wow, what are the odds? I was just starting to wonder if I was alone in my dislike for Susan

[@MichaelJDavanzo]

I said it on Reddit and I'll say it here: I think a lot of people who hate Susan, and inadvertently Teri Hatcher, just hate women. And hate women who don't hate themselves. It would have been nice had this analysis given more credit to Hatcher's portrayal of Susan, despite all the odds stacked against her. There were a lot of genuine real moments that Susan had over the course of the show that really humanize her and give a lot of credence as to why she is the way she is. But instead, this video almost just felt like you were saying "oh it's fine to hate Susan for reasons X Y and Z."

[@mpazinambao2938]

I feel like Bree kinda hated herself, and everyone liked her.👀

[@enriquesanchez9016]

I'm sorry but i'm NOT gonna have to like a selfish, immature, self-pitying character like Susan to prove i don't hate women, get out of here with that nonsense.

[@enriquesanchez9016]

@@mpazinambao2938 Bree is a way stronger character than Susan has ever been though.

[@Gigi-sz8ns]

Nahh!! This is not it! The energy Teri Hatcher gives off is just.. flat out annoying. I truly think if Susan was played by a different actress, we’d feel more sympathetic to her character like we are to the other housewives who were far from perfect! That being said, I will always love DH!

[@MichaelJDavanzo]

@@Gigi-sz8ns thank you for proving my point

[@diana2063]

9:11 I’m so tired of this bullshit narrative around Skylar White. Sorry, but she was a terrible partner well before Walt broke bad. She wanted to selfishly force him into the torture of chemo when he had terminal cancer and just wanted palliative care. She was incredibly judgmental, harsh, and closed-minded. She was absolutely justified in her reactions to Walt becoming a meth dealer, but she was hated because she was hateful. Watch someone die a slow painful death from terminal cancer because their partner refuses to let them go peacefully. It happened in my family and I have nothing but disdain for those who defend this behavior.