The Cheating Creative Cliche, Explained - When Art Imitates Infidelity...

[@moxxibekk]

Cheaters don't want open relationships because 1. They want a "yes for me but not for thee" and don't like the idea of their partner doing what they are, and 2. Being in a healthy open relationship of any kind takes WORK and communication. A lot of "free spirit" types simply don't have the emotional maturity to handle it.

[@senister14]

You're not wrong, what's so hard about communicating your feelings? Plus if it's so hard then why stay?

[@clemencebernot1335]

Cuz there's something more to benefit from the stable relationship and maintaining unclear communication allow manipulatio. From my pov ​@@senister14

[@CrocusSeal]

I really hope that essay by Dr. Lilly Jay gets more traction. Ariana Grande has been shoved in our faces for the past few months and people have been fawning over her. Drew Barrymore told her with tears in her eyes how wonderful of a person she is and her daughters look up to her. I hope the truth doesn't get buried by her PR team. She's not a good person

[@AGEE_95]

I hope people don't use Lilly's essay to trash a person, she didn't even bring up once because her story has nothing to do with Ariana. It's about Lilly's struggle with divorce, and motherhood, and the effect her private life becoming public had on her. Her story is important and it make it about a celebrity, and reduce it to hating on them is unsurprising behavior from chronically online dimwitts, but that doesnt't it any less gross that people are pretending to care about Lilly's pain, when they just care about bashing a famous stranger on Twitter.

[@leahfernandez8902]

"I really never thought I would get divorced. Especially not just after giving birth to my first child and especially not in the shadow of my husband’s new relationship with a celebrity.” Praying for healing towards Dr. Lilly Jay. She deserves so much better. Allegedly, Ethan Slater (her ex-husband), cheated on her with Ariana Grande.

[@oh.sorry.dont.mind.meeeee]

I tried to read what she wrote but it was on one of those sites that wants you to pay for articles did she ever actually say that he cheated on her? either way, the personal romantic lives of strangers and celebrities is none of my business.

[@grizzlyalmighty2]

@oh.sorry.dont.mind.meeeee another delulu grande stan tryna weasel this girl's way out of this through technicalities, "did she SAY it??" "WeLl WhY dO yAlL cArE ANYWAY???". it happened. try as you might there's no denying it. you're not convincing ANYONE just wasting your own time LMAO

[@AGEE_95]

@@grizzlyalmighty2 you couldn't answer the question honestly, so you just deflected and made a blanket statement you can't back up, no matter how desperately you want to pretend you can. that says it all tbh. there's no denying that, but don't take it out on them.

[@WhitneyDahlin]

The problem is people END themselves and others over cheating every minute of every day. And cheaters like to pretend it's not a big deal, pretend like they're still a good person. There just isn't a valid excuse for it, especially in this day and age.

[@vampirequeenofficial]

Exactly. Cheating is bad, and cheaters are in the wrong, period. There’s no “framing” about it. Serials cheaters have deep issues and, artist or not, should work to fix themselves.

[@yesimarangel]

The whole Ariana situation gives me an icky feeling. SHE gives me an icky feeling. I only wish for Dr. Lily Jay a good healing process.

[@AGJ117]

She seems like someone who's literally given away her soul and now we're seeing is an empty husk. She's to blame for everything she's done, but Hollywood really did a number on her.

[@inesatt1313]

I agree

[@tross-lj2eb]

WHAT. He's the one who cheated on her, Ariana Grande had no obligation to her. Ridiculous.

[@ohplease6865]

@@tross-lj2ebit takes 2 to tango

[@ohplease6865]

@@tross-lj2eb it takes 2 to tango🤦🏽‍♀️

[@MyKrabi]

Sending solidarity and healing vibes to Dr. Jay .... and let's be honest Natasha was the CLASSY woman in that love triangle.

[@Hallows4]

Now that I think about it, the trope of infidelity being a common thing among creative types is surprisingly more widespread than I realized. Whether it’s life imitating art or art imitating life that starts the cycle, the two do seem to fit very well together, for better or worse.

[@fancyhughes]

This was a very good and thoughtful video. Well done. I had no idea Dr. Lily Jay wrote an article about her divorce. I wish her the best.

[@jonathangriffin8060]

Phil Collins is a good example of an artist who wrote good songs about infidelity back in the 80s. He has been cheated on by his ex-wife and his best songs were based on that heartbreak. He was the pre-Taylor Swift of the 80s.

[@evildoesnotsleep-x2b]

I read Dr Lily Jay's essay and it was heartbreaking. She didn't deserve any of it

[@oh.sorry.dont.mind.meeeee]

yeah, I tried to read the essay, but it was behind a paywall.

[@grazielaalmeida8438]

She din't deserve this man, look at him 😂, she should be more patient and not marry someone that she was dating in high school, I am sure she would found someone more interesting.

[@MissBlueEyeliner]

I hope Dr Lily Jay gets a _really_ good divorce settlement that will support herself and her son through the unexpected life and unplanned for life that lays before them.

[@vanessaheine8093]

It’s a shame Dr. Lily Jay senses she might be losing patients over this. Personally, I would prefer therapist who’s been through some really rough stuff. That way, they’ve seen it all, experienced it all, and can bring all of that wisdom and empathy and growth to a therapy session with a patient.

[@samf.s.7731]

She said that?. My God, that's terrible. Even her career is being affected directly by this?

[@FabulousKilljoy917]

10:19 I know Ariana’s got a reputation for being a “home wrecker” and I’m not excusing hooking up with a partnered person, but I am going point out how sexist it is when women (specifically) are vilified for “breaking up a relationship” while the other partner (typically a MAN) gets to get off with people acting like they’re the victim(?!?!) no, that is a grown adult (most often older too) who chose to leave their spouse for a fling. SpongeBob knew Dr. Lily almost his whole life, she is a successful doctor who probably had to be the breadwinner to a ‘struggling’ musical theater major for a long time; HE chose to leave her and their brand new BABY to follow his di*k. I’m not excusing Ariana, but I’m holding SpongeBob EQUALLY accountable because he is an adult who has a say & choice in his life decisions

[@unluckyone1655]

@@FabulousKilljoy917 can I get an amen

[@panana6084]

Don't worry, the majority of people hate them both the same way. But it is still interesting that Ariana has a thing for men already taken, and it makes sense that it reflects poorly on her. People aren't hating her more for this affair. They are just tired that she (and her fans) keep pushing that "innocent" image of "she just fell in love with him and couldn't help it."

[@SandDanGlockta]

I'll just say this having been in theatre for years... if you are someone who is in a creative fine arts field like singing or acting and you've been unfaithful... then you were going to be unfaithful no matter your career Being in the arts may accelerate it but it isn't the cause

[@WouldntULikeToKnow.]

Right? Plenty of creatives are faithful!

[@tasiaalex9169]

THIS. The more money and power someone has, the more their personality and morals (or lack there of) shows. Agreed.

[@ninadiener9806]

Agree. Also been in theater for a while and some filmmaking. Never had the need to feel bigger emotions by wrecking my life or anyone else's

[@vampirequeenofficial]

Exactly! Cheating is bad, and cheaters are in the wrong, period. There’s no “framing” about it. Serials cheaters have deep issues and, artist or not, should work to fix them.

[@SUNNYSTORIES696]

If it takes cheating on your partner for you to be creative then you're not a true artist

[@mycollegeshirt]

what, no a lot of artists were horrible monsters. It just makes you a prick. Then again I think hot famous celebs like arianna, the only excitement they get is if they are not sure they can get. If that's any consolation.

[@vampirequeenofficial]

Exactly! Cheating is bad, and cheaters are in the wrong, period. There’s no “framing” about it. Serials cheaters have deep issues and, artist or not, should work to fix them.

[@unluckyone1655]

And they're often the narcissist artist that everyone secretly can't stand at all

[@Rikkilover17]

Not only does Dr. Lilly have to deal with the fact that her husbands lover is becoming richer and more popular at her expense, it probably does not help that she wouldve most likely funded his career all this time with how hers is the more stable profession.

[@missoliviajordan]

I'm sad that Usher's Confessions was left out of this

[@W4TSKY]

Confessions isn’t even about Usher, it’s about Jermaine Dupri. But yeah, it still could’ve been included.

[@ruthielalastor2209]

Man, I hope people become more open to their partners about their feelings, even the unsavory, unfavorable ones, and they can communicate before they cause real problems. Finding out you were betrayed in such a big way is so painful.

[@vampirequeenofficial]

I’m disappointed in this video. Cheating is bad, and cheaters are in the wrong, period. There’s no “framing” about it. Serials cheaters have deep issues and, artist or not, should work to fix it. THAT’S the take.

[@dotcom3015]

Dude chill.We can know cheating is bad and still watch it in movies or hear about it in songs. Do you want all art to be censored to only show good morals? Even Martin Luther king cheated on his wife. Instead of actually cheating, artists should just put their desires in their art as an outlet then go to therapy. There’s plenty of drugs and murder in fiction, that doesn’t mean the artist that created the story is guilty of doing those things. Cheating in fiction should not be a problem

[@laurawestenra]

I'm sorry but since when is being a creative about cheating? Maybe being egotistical and self centered could be correlated with infidelity . If your creativity is truly centered in sensitivity and deep reverence for the souls of others, if you hold love as sacred, I would betrayal of love would be less likely.

[@gabrielafonseca4034]

To me, not being monogamous is a natural response after being in a bad marriage that ended with my husband cheating on me. I am creative, but I just can't believe in commitment anymore and I'm more at home like that. My dad always said I wasn't meant to be married and I think he was right. What is really shitty is wanting to play the field and wanting the advantages of having a partner at the same time . If you want to date multiple people, just stay single. Don't try to have it all, like some spoiled kid.

[@ray_area0468]

Agreed. Either commit or don't commit. A person can be monogamous or polyamorous all they want, but they should feel shame for attempting to wreck monogamous homes. It gives people in polyamory a bad name.

[@turtle360]

Unless your partner share the same views and you agree on seing other people.

[@gabrielafonseca4034]

@@turtle360 this one is tricky. I know several couples that have apparently agreed on something and it turns out they had completely different things in mind and, of course, both end up hurting and getting hurt. What works for me is being straight forward from the very beginning, keeping it brief, parting amicably, many times staying friends. I am kind of like that girl from 500 Days of Summer, only much older, and I haven't changed my mind about how I am better off on my own.

[@olympiaelda1121]

Cheating is not okay.

[@thegreenrose147]

I’m sending thoughts of solidarity to Dr. Lily Jay. I wouldn’t wish her reality on my worst enemy.

[@widowgirl1254]

Dr. Lily didn't deserve any of that. She deserves so much better

[@SchindlersFiist]

Eyes Wide Shut is hilarious. Tom Cruise gets so pissed off and jealous about his wife thinking about another guy he has to go cheat. But all these problems occur and he just can't do it. Lol pretty funny

[@laqueensha]

Glinda the “good” witch

[@NicolasaNicolasa]

Cheaters partners are the most people i hate in the world , i hate other personalities but cheaters in a romantic relationship are just so insane , like how they are so comfortable doing It ? And the worst they really think they are good person

[@amazingashlee7]

Ariana’s team working overtime lol

[@cmoe5607]

Writers: Ariana Singers: Ariana Actors: shows another picture of Ariana 😂

[@PokhrajRoy.]

Cheating scandals in creative circles? Colour me surprised.

[@inesatt1313]

It's wrong

[@PokhrajRoy.]

6:38 I love those memes that are about the girls having a conversation and it ends with “Big is moving to Paris.”

[@froggywithaheart]

i swear im not stalking you lmao...

[@PokhrajRoy.]

@ Now if you have to say that…(jk)

[@outinsider]

I think it's worth mentioning that famous artists seem to have more of an openness about discussions of cheating and while romance with cheating is in art, it doesn't come from "artist culture," it comes from capturing a conflict which to explore humanity. Also, cheating has been mostly a male conversation, a cultural ask for permission. Men are understood among men for when they cheat. Women are seen as bad, "homewrecking" people for when they cheat. So, I understand framing playing a role here. For example, when Bill Clinton cheated on Hillary Clinton with Monica Lewinsky, Monica was seen as the homewrecking whore and Hillary Clinton was seen as the emasculating feminist. "Poor Bill" was the one caught between political ambition and carnal desire, but the women in his life paid a price. Trump cheated on Ivanna and led to his first divorce, and also led to her untimely death after he paid mobsters to knock her off before her testimony at his second impeachment hearings. Trump also projects/confesses his actions onto his opponents and people buy it to this day, but people do pay attention to what's actually going on there. Still, the "poor man" trope affects conversations about cheating all the time, when it's usually the "poor man" whose guilty as sin. As an artist myself, a non-famous one at that, I do see artists in long marriages. I do see consensual conversations taking place. I do see stability in long lasting relationships. But relationships also change over time too. Why are artists any different than anybody else?

[@jaughnekow]

We are normalising promiscuity that’s why cheating is a thing

[@grizzlyalmighty2]

sorry other people can get laid and you can't???? the only people who try to shame others for that are the ones not getting any 💀💀💀

[@txbiaz]

so cheating wasn't a thing back when your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc. were around? you learn something new every day ig

[@Ashbrash1998]

People make that dumb assumption all the time but forget cheating was a big problem since millenia. Medieval courts had affairs, the trad Era had it too.

[@rachaelknudsen8801]

Cheating has been a problem since time immemorial. It's more socially accepted and more publicized, but it has existed for far too long.

[@inesatt1313]

It's stupid,wrong,and even should NEVER EVER happen in real life and movie!!!!!

[@mountain85]

Justifying cheating and then leaving is the ultimate sign of a weak narcissist!

[@claudiabcarvalho]

I surprised you included Conversations with Friends, but didn't talk about Taylor Swift, who admittedly cheated on Calvin Harris (physically) and Joe Alwyn (emotionally). I don't care much about that, and I love the songs that infidelity inspired (High Infidelity and Guilty as Sin), but the video would've been more complete if you talked about those songs, because they highlight that people might cheat out of suffering and neglect and fear.

[@thetake]

Thanks for watching! Is there a song that you thought was just a regular love song as a kid, and then realized it was about cheating as an adult? For more on the ups and downs of relationships, check out our recent video analyzing Amy Adam's new movie: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWLbiYKPrNifhKc

[@Elizabeth-tq7qw]

I was almost an adult by the time I realized that Whitney Houston’s Saving All My Love was from the other woman’s perspective. Some songs aren’t as appealing once you realize the so-called dream guy is just another cheat.

[@TheSeverettis]

Great video 🙌🏻 I have a topic suggestion: why do so many people in films work as editors / in publishing? Examples being The Holiday, How to lose a guy in 10 days, SATC, 13 going on 30, The devil wears Prada… the list is never ending :))

[@rachaelknudsen8801]

Because it's writers writing about writers. If write what you know is the advice they follow, it makes sense that they would create characters in fields they are familiar with; it does minimize the research needed.

[@tross-lj2eb]

I know they really are artists, but framing them as that is dishonest as their art is tertiary; they are capitalists, focused on fame and profit. Most of them make bad art most of the time.

[@Elizabeth-lm8tk]

fleabag is a good example of this on multiple counts and perspectives

[@mariaskabardonis8353]

I think it’s cause when your artist it’s easier to express yourself and write what you know and while cheating is wrong it’s not illegal. So it’s an easier thing to put in media I have liked some couples on tv and movies sadly that had cheating like Big/carrie, Johnnie/June and Rory/logan I guess my justification is most got together after the affair or in the case of Rory/logan didn’t begin like that. Ah Ariana I enjoy her as a singer and actress but I don’t focus on her personal life

[@sandrabibianavargas2147]

I miss Shakira in this video...

[@alisterfolson]

Also, don't forget drugs.

[@Tinkerbe11]

I think, artists, especially when they are famous, have a lot more temptation than "normal" human beings. They have fans that throw themselves at them and almost nobody is out of rech for them. Also, acting does create a lot of intimacy between the actors, so I can imagine, that it is easier to fall in love with somebody you have to pretend to be in love with. And suddenly they find themselves in love with 2 persons, and the new one is always more exciting than the old one. I think, they do not always take it to lightly, and they certainly do not intentionally hurt someone. It just happens to them as well. There are some songs that are about this being torn between 2 lovers, "unfaithfu", that you played in the video, but also "too much love will kill you" by Brian May. It's a complicated situation, and not pleasant for either of them. Falling in love is nothing you chose, it is something that just happens.

[@PopTarts1990]

Hmmm... you see celebrities as different from normal people then I take it? It's just interesting is all, I dont know I've ever heard someone phrase it quite like that. I take it you're a deep thinker?

[@Tinkerbe11]

@@PopTarts1990 I only see celebrities as different than other people when it comes to fans, and the temptations they pose.And maybe their life style when they are on tour. Most of us don't get adored by thousands of people. And some (but not all) fans have more than an artistic interest in artists.

[@OvSpP]

Creatives should just never be monogynous.

[@Notherj]

Or just normalize bisexual polyamory already...

[@tahsina.c]

Im good. Though that's a really interesting fantasy you got there ;)

[@Notherj]

I've a feeling gen z and alpha won't be holding so much obsession over infidelity. They "shamelessly" ship the one who he cheats with with the one he cheats on. And I gotta say Carrie and Natasha SHOULD move in together in this beige apartment and be couple friends with big's ex-wife and her new husband.

[@Ashbrash1998]

Idk, I think a conversation is being had and less harsh/sympathetic. But that doesn't translate to condoning or excusing it.

[@SuperBrianMak]

6:27 100% inaccurate. Carrie was flawed, but she never, ever justified cheating on her boyfriend with her ex in any aspect. She didn't use the fact she was a writer or "free spirit" to rationalize her cheating. Very wrong "Take." And as far as being judgemental, she was nowhere near as harsh as, say, Miranda. At her worst, she made light-hearted jokes. The Take has a tendency to misinterpret and misjudge Carrie when she as a character was as complicated and 3-Dimensional as a female character gets. That actually says a lot.

[@Ashbrash1998]

I mean she did get over Miranda cheating on Steve, did the same for Steve in the movie, and was overly upset about being bad mouthed to other people. Did you forget how she freaked out about seeing Aiden's ex and was wanting to tell HER side of the story?

[@cristinarivera5707]

It’s become this trend to trash Carrie Bradshaw and I think it’s so tired. Like this woman was a flawed character and people seem to think that only male characters can be a wreck. She ended the affair and confessed to Aiden that she cheated on him. Most cheaters will not do that! They will stay with their partner and just continue to cheat on them. Funny part is Aiden cheated on his wife kissing Carrie and taking her on a date in Abu Dhabi. People either ignore that or say it’s “different” because it was “just” a kiss as if taking your ex fiancé to dinner and making out isn’t disrespectful to your wife 🤔

[@Ashbrash1998]

​@cristinarivera5707 I mean she didn't "end the affair" though. She got caught by the wife, then felt compelled to tell Aiden on her friend's wedding.

[@cristinarivera5707]

@@Ashbrash1998 She still ended the affair and told Aiden about it. Like I don’t understand what your rebuttal is here.

[@SuperBrianMak]

​@@Ashbrash1998 Carrie never judged Steve for cheating in the movie, but she pointed out Miranda's hypocrisy in holding on to resentment towards him while badgering her for forgiveness. As for Aidan's ex, it was because the woman, Nina Katz, who's a complete stranger mind you, gave her a judgemental look after randomly blurting out that she dated her ex-fiancé. Again, this is a total stranger. That would shake anyone up, especially after a bad break-up. Carrie feeling what she felt was human, and she was still decent to the woman.

[@OpticalSorcerer]

It's a hot take, but I really wish musicians didn't glamorize infidelity and cheating. There are so many songs about stealing someone (and then a sad song from the artist about being cheated on).

[@bluedreamer6564]

Did Stevie Nicks actually cheat on Lindsey Buckingham? Thought she just broke up with him "Landslide" style.

[@hanaomar4004]

Yeah she did but that wasn’t the reason they broke up

[@bassgirl6678]

The whole little spiel at the end while having Ariana Grande on the screen is a little insane. Like can we physically stop here from releasing the music and her actions? You’re right, no. But we can tell her she’s a shitty human for being like “yeah I broke up a family, deal with it” and releasing that shit as a song/album.

[@malvavisco10]

Candace “Bunchell”??? It’s Bushnell! Try researching and enunciating better!

[@janejane-tk3wx]

this is depressing thanks

[@ashleygresham171]

Interesting that usher’s confessions and beyonce/jay-z was left out of this. The references appeared one way

[@fortune_roses]

Watch the movie "Match Point". You're welcome

[@1105grumpy]

Let's not endorse Woody Allen.

[@zero1188]

Alot of times people grown apart. Especially high school sweet hearts

[@AndreaFlores-eb1zv]

That doesnt justify infidelity though

[@zero1188]

@@AndreaFlores-eb1zv never said its justified

[@Ashbrash1998]

Then divorce? Or at least get the paperwork started before ypu start something new.

[@anudarib]

The whole topic and premise of the video are fn weird. Analyze why some people are so selfish that they can go on and hurt someone happily

[@Insanitydagger]

this video is honestly so dumb

[@noorie_noorie_]

what do you guys think about taylor swift and her need to get the last word?

[@Notherj]

slay queen yas?

[@Beanhill_94]

Relatable tbh

[@tedtalksrock]

Ethan being a “smaller” part other conversation… isn’t the only “smaller part” that Ethan is dealing with, reportedly. We all hope Ethan gets all he deserves.

[@deeechwita]

wow im early

[@Juggernaut01]

First

[@sophiac8824]

What great discussion @TheTake. Really enjoy this, very thought-provoking.

[@thetake]

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