The Magic Formula for Perfect Speaker Set-Up?! | W/ Jim Smith

[@TheTASmagazine]

As mentioned in the video, purchase Jim's book here: www.getbettersound.com/store

[@chrisrichards2827]

the cardas formula works really well, all you have to do is plug in the width of your room and it'll tell you exactly how far from the front wall and the sidewall your speakers need to be and as soon as I did that my soundstage opened up beautifully.

[@michaelangelo1955]

Thank you. I'm also in the process of building out a recording studio space with a musician friend. We're using ASC active monitors in a near field listening space. We plan to apply the formula and then tweak it from there based on seating position, mixer etc. It should be fun!

[@maxhirsch7035]

Jim Smith is one of Kickstarter's great 'disappearing acts'- a decade ago many of us audiophiles contributed to his "Through the Sound Barrier" campaign ($118 in my case). Since then we've had a few dozen updates, but nothing has ever been delivered to us (our contributions having disappeared into his ether), just endless promises from him of being nearly done, excuses re. health issues, etc. He appears much better at setting up promises to be broken than he is with speakers.

[@JohnLee-db9zt]

This is not new in high end. So many scoundrels.

[@flyingjeff1984]

I went through this with another "high end" audio dude who was promoting his son's enterprise. Bait and switch. The product was delivered but the disappointment lingers.

[@peterw2714]

I’m a victim of Jim Smith also and his endless promises to deliver and never do so. He’s a con artist.

[@freekwo7772]

OMG!!!!! I just try this out od curiosity and my jaws dropped! Wow wow wow!

[@charliepick3923]

After years of inching the speakers and furniture around, i adjusted the x and y to hit 84% and everything has snapped into focus. Outstanding.

[@5FWS5]

Pretty incredible! I just re-adjusted my setup and wow, there is a noticeable difference! I was close to begin with but without wanting to move my seat distance I moved the speakers about 6" closer together and major improvement in soundstage, Imaging and clarity/focus. THANKS!

[@peterbaugh51]

Great video. After setting up my reference speakers by ear, I checked your formula and got 0.8207=X/Y in my room. I get great sound and imaging from 30 htz and up. But my setup is 30° off from parallel to the front wall, and same for the listening area. Speakers are cross streamed 10% and tilted up 7%. This is best for my Elac speakers. Every speaker and room is different, so toe in will vary. As the speakers are aimed at slanted wall angles, standing waves are reduced, by my humble theory. Seems to work. Powerful sound with low wattage. 83% rule is a good guide, thanks.

[@user-fd6gl7kq2t]

Great advice. I was previously too far back but always noticed better, impactful sound when leaning forward. Moved couch up to that same lean-forward spot and it measured 82.5%!

[@jameskirk796]

I deal with a very reflective room, and I'll take all the help I can get. Good Job, and helpful here! 👍

[@michaelangelo1955]

I have this book from years ago. It has helped me with many speakers in my often difficult rooms. Most of us are in a situation where our listening rooms double as living space. This nook had helped me IMMENSELY in dealing with that. Between this book and my belief that the physics of sound reproduction don't lie I continue to love the way my system sounds and those of friends I have (or tried!) to help. Thanks, Jim

[@buzzhughes2889]

Really worked well and made an improvement . I had my speaker too far apart doing this “by ear” on previous attempts. His comments about integrating the bass better really played out with a better .83 set up

[@michaelangelo1955]

A pleasure to watch and listen. Thank you so much

[@oldschoolaudioenthusiast]

Great interview! Confirms what I already believed. You're basically creating an upside down Isosceles triangle tweaked / adjusted to maximum benefit. I completely agree that setting up to an equilateral triangle is not optimum and ultimately sounds thin. Please keep these expert interviews coming! Thanks!

[@carlitomelon4610]

Angles of that triangle are: 65.48°/49.04°/65.48° (Approximately) 🎶😉🎶

[@billfarrell4387]

Great to see this interview I have Jim’s book and have read it several times, it’s like magic for your sound system This is definitely a book you should have to set up your system Thanks JIM Take Care

[@fertusherring3476]

Used to be a time when TAS was filled with articles on room placement, getting the best sound from our systems and the like. Haven't seen the like since the mid '90s (not on a steady basis). Used to be once every 6 issues, along with reviewer showing diagrams of their listening rooms and what was important to them in music reproduction. First 20 years or so: mucho articles with focus helping readership acquire top sound quality. Last 20, hardly at all.

[@dannyfannyfoodle]

I recently arrived at a similar arrangement just by trial and error. I’ve never had an enjoyable experience with the equilateral triangle and I really don’t like my speakers toed in because you lose some of the scale of the soundstage. Also, I just don’t like tweeters aimed right at my ears. I much prefer the off-axis sound. I just measured my current arrangement and found it to be 88%. My only choice is to sit closer to the back wall or move my speakers closer to the front wall (neither is optimal). I have a credenza between my speakers so I can’t move them closer together. But this has got me thinking about something I’ve considered for awhile which is to move the credenza to a sidewall which would allow me to move the speakers closer together and would also have the sonic benefit of removing a point of diffraction from between the speakers. Definitely buying the book!!

[@russellparker4568]

I used this method combined with the master speaker placement. I used a couple of long cables taped to the floor from the listening position out to the speakers in the 83% ratio. I then used the master placement technique pulling one speaker away from the wall but instead of coming parallel down the room i followed the cable line towards the listening position so i was always in a 83% ratio. This worked absolutely amazing, i have a clean frequency response (to my ear) and a soundstage where it feels like im sat inside the recording. Give it a bash, hardest bit it calculating the rake of the 83% line.

[@BillyDrummondDrums]

Fantastic!!

[@stillaliveandwell5291]

I was lucky enough to see Jim lecture at Axpona in Atlanta (the one year they held it here) back about 15 years ago. I wish every review or at least every speaker review was required by law (lol) to start with the all of the room dimensions and a description of contents (and treatments whether they be actual or just room furnishings) as well as speaker placement. Then list all of the equipment (which does happen a good portion of the time). Then the review may be of help. I'd say more about the lecture but buy the book 😉😉🙂 Back about 20 years ago I took my almost new BMW R1100GS "off-road" on the Blue Ridge Parkway on a long sweeping turn at 65 mph, through a ditch and halfway up the hillside before it fell over. The guy I was riding with had the same bike and he was in front of me and it took him awhile too figure out I wasn't behind him. We were headed to the BMW National Rally that was in NC that year. I was laughing by the time he got there. Several people stopped to help get the bike back down to the road and get the weeds and dirt off. The handlebars looked a little crooked but I turned the key and it started and off we went. A little sore for the next couple days for sure. Any other bike I might have been dead (which is why I was laughing). I did have full Aerostich (correct spelling) suit on with shoulder and knee pads.

[@rickp6731]

Major-Breakthrough for Speakers ! 😃 New JERN 35 Monitors made out of High-Graphite CAST IRON ! 🙂 Real Game-Changer...😉

[@gbmwaz]

WOW I just measured my home reference setup done previously by happenstance around furniture, and this IS nearly spot on....the 'Y' measure is not straight back from the centerline between the tweeter width ( I found that dialog confusing) but from each tweeter angled to my centered seat - thus at an angle on each side to my seat - hope that was what was meant.....lucky me anyway

[@carlitomelon4610]

Finally, Jim Smith on YT! Great book. Every audiophile should read it. Lots of useful info. This boiled down advice is essential . 🎵🎶😊🎶🎵 PS. Just checked: 8.5ft to (vertical) LRS tweeters. 7ft apart= 83% Not a "rule" but...thanks Jim!

[@j.craigh.3480]

I’m fairly certain that it’s X devided by Y and 7 feet would be the Y, meaning your X should be about 5.8 feet from tweeter to your ear.

[@dannyfannyfoodle]

@@j.craigh.3480 “X” is the distance between the tweeters. “Y” is the distance from tweeter to ear. X OVER Y means you divide X by Y so his calculation is correct. Basically, you want to be a little further away from the speakers than the distance between the tweeter - not the “equilateral triangle” that is so widely recommended.

[@carlitomelon4610]

@@j.craigh.3480 Sorry you're mistaken. Ive had Jim's book a few years. Pg93 has an illustration: Y is speaker separation. X is distance to ear. Y should be 83% of X 🎶🙂🎶

[@j.craigh.3480]

@@carlitomelon4610 my bad, your correct. I had it backwards. Thanks!

[@carlitomelon4610]

@@j.craigh.3480 No problem. Actually, I watched the video again and the X&Y measurements are transposed from the diagram in the book 🤪 Time to move your speakers/listening position, maybe? That should be fun. (I have to lean forward to get it right for my LS50 "Domestic harmony" system) 🎶😉🎶

[@j.craigh.3480]

Right on the nose! I moved my listening spot recently because it sounded better, then I found your video and had too measure and sure enough roughly 83%.

[@craigcoughlin1834]

I'm a dummy. So the distance between the speakers (X) is 82% of Y?

[@davewin1792]

Of your seated distance.

[@carlosalvarez7445]

I think they inadvertently swapped X and Y. If the distance between tweeters has to be 83% the distance between tweeter and ear, then you would be too far from the speakers. If that was the intention, I would say in my room, it ruins image and resolution and subtracts body to the sound.

[@viggozing598]

Straight from the horse's mouth and I quote: "If x is the distance from your ear to the tweeter plane (our source of directionality), then y (in this case 83%) is the distance from the center of one tweeter to the other."

[@a.s.2426]

@viggozing598 I’m trying to decipher this video myself. Where did you get this quote from? Seems the video is expressing the converse with respect to the definitions of “x” and “y”.

[@peterbaugh51]

Yes you got it. Speakers closer to each other than to you. Works in my room....

[@robertwang7825]

Best advice. It’s better than the equilateral triangle others are recommending. I just tried it out, def much better results. Thank you so much.

[@garyalexander5686]

Thank you Jim.

[@Kukkema]

How to find the listening position?

[@captainbigjim1708]

I've had the pleasure of watching Jim bring about the music magic. AMAZING! Great interview thanks. I see a pair of Magico M3s in his future

[@dougg1075]

Nothing better than listening to a fine system when baked on edibles. They are the ultimate tweak. Loving the channel guys. Sorry but true 👆

[@cburns3331]

Jim has stolen from people with repeated excuses. I even requested a refund a few months ago. No response. This person does not deserve to be featured on you show. He has stolen money from thousands of people and has lied to us for years. I will not watch your videos anymore, it shows a lack of judgement on your part.

[@Unpreeeedictable]

How many audiophiles immediately get out their measuring tapes after this video was finished?

[@Mean_Gene_69]

😂… me

[@raymondmilewski6549]

Jim started a kickstarter campaign for a new book 10 years ago and has not delivered the new book. Trust this guy at your own risk.

[@JohnLee-db9zt]

He ripped off so many audiophiles it seems. Never trusted this guy from the beginning.

[@andiloor2100]

Very interesting. I will go home and measure, but I am surprised no distance to the back wall was mentioned.

[@stillaliveandwell5291]

Distance to ALL walls are important. As well as a myriad of other variables. I'm going to comment above.

[@ssjlkrillin]

Mixing engineers have always maintained an equilateral triangle configuration, which would be 1.00.

[@markfischer3626]

Over 2000 people sit in a concert hall and every one of them hears something better than you'd hear from the best hi fi system. I don't believe in sweet spots. If you have to adjust your speakers and seat with a micrometer it's not good design. If people have very expensive equipment that sounds terrible and they don't know it sounds terrible and haven't tried to do something about it then they have spent far too much money on equipment.

[@ryanstratton1925]

it's a little confusing, are the speakers closer together than the listening distance? I am gathering you should be sitting further away then the speaker than they are closer together so the narrow part of the triangle is the distance the speakers are apart.

[@markpalazzo4958]

I agree it seems one is sitting further back than an equilateral triangle. What is the toe in recommendation. Most manufacturers recommend equilateral triangle with perhaps cross over behind head

[@a.s.2426]

It’s exactly as he shows in the diagram.

[@DrAlanWeinstein]

What about Dirac?

[@NeilBlanchard]

Some speakers are meant to be setup close(r) to the wall, and many are not. So - playing it by ear - literally?

[@zapwatt]

First nine minutes is all resume. Relevant information is from 9-12 minute marks.

[@TheNaka9]

I can’t get the expected results in my room with the Kef LS50... the sound is more forward with less meat on the bones and the soundstage got less defined... I will try again with other speakers.

[@a.s.2426]

Agreed. Terrible result for me. Soundstage shrinks, music gets much leaner across the frequency spectrum.

[@peterbaugh51]

Works great with my Elac DBR62 Reference speakers. No sub needed. No fortune needed either 😊.

[@Mikaelsson]

This was very confusing , 83 what? What does it mean and what to do with that number ?!

[@carlitomelon4610]

IKR? If your speakers are on an equilateral triangle that's 100%, so move them closer together to 83% of the distance to your ears (or sit a little further away;-) Sound should get richer & more emotionally involving.

[@a.s.2426]

Correct. Unfortunately, sounded terrible to me. I feel the answer - for me - is the converse: to alter the equilateral configuration going to in the other direction with me sitting at about 83% of the distance between the speakers.

[@peterw2714]

Hey Jim, where is my Kickstarter music that you promised us that you would get to us 10 years ago to help us tune our audiophile systems. 10 years of excuses, and nothing except you taking our money.

[@realleescoggins]

It’s not his fault. His rights to the music expired and the labels have been difficult about renewing the rights.

[@peterw2714]

@@realleescoggins that’s just an excuse because there’s all kinds of music out there, if he couldn’t find one song that would work, he could have definitely have found others. Paul from PS audio has a disc that he sells that is used for the exact same purpose. Didn’t seem to be a problem for him. We’re not talking a few months or perhaps a year or two. we’re talking 10+ years. I think the last time I heard from him was about two years ago with more excuses. It’s always just around the corner. He’s got a few good ideas, some not so good, but I definitely wouldn’t give this man any money.

[@aklegal8271]

@@realleescoggins What does that have to do with the rest of the things he promised? He hasn't completed anything in ten years.

[@semccoin]

I measured mine after watching the video and it was 83.7.

[@henriksrensen3220]

The listening distance is still longer than the distance between the speakers?

[@a.s.2426]

Correct. Sounds terrible on my system.

[@jyy9624]

Subs take forever

[@Jack96993]

I do get out my tape measure as l have Magnepan speakers When the wife is not looking l put painters tape on the carpet : ) I like to put my Maggie's back againt the wall when I'm not doing critical listening Most probably know, but if you measure from outside to inside of the speakers it the same as trying to measure from center to center I have found if l set my Maggie's 4' from the wall, 9' apart and 11' from my listening position and slight toe in gives me best music presentation to my ears Trust me l have experimented many different locations! My only issue is my listening position is againt the back wall

[@dxv-ug3tj]

I have a similar experience. My room is 4.2x7x2.5m (14x23x8'). The standing speakers (Monitor Audio RX-6) are 3-4' away from the side walls, and about 3' from the front wall, spaced about 8-9' apart. The front wall (behind the speakers) is made of solid material with a window in the middle. The ideal listening space is about 13-15' from the front wall. If it is smaller, the sound is attacked and difficult for long-term listening. The more I increase this distance, the better and more comfortable I get a sense of the sound stage (it seems as if it was observed from the back seats of a concert hall). This contrasts with 83% of the distance!

[@sevestan]

Wow...am blown away...gonna build my next house with triangular rooms, thanks Dr.Jim!

[@JohnLee-db9zt]

Looks like TAS didn’t get your sarcasm. 😂

[@christophervalle]

Hard to believe, but I just measured mine and it turned out to be 84.12%! Pretty darn close.

[@peterbaugh51]

Yeah, I got 0.8207 setup by ear 😊.

[@Mongodaze234]

What is that in ft or inches??

[@a.s.2426]

?

[@peterbaugh51]

X inches over y inches. x should be the smaller value. Speakers would be closer to each other than to you.

[@scottcooter3442]

Meh. Sadly, it didn’t work for my system, actually closed in the soundstage of my system when I tried it. I went back to my equilateral triangle setup for my GoldenEar Triton Ones.

[@kworx1]

If you're not setting up in a dedicated listening room, you're still missing the boat by miles and miles. In the video, the host states that they are in his listing room. For one thing, YOUR room should NEVER have an untreated window in it, much less a wall of records, cd's, and other unnecessary shit in the room. Before one thinks about setup, you have to TREAT the room! This means setting it up for sound and not looks! While music/sound is a subjective art, the physics of a sound wave is quite objective, measurable, and controllable. A room can, and usually does create far more distortion than the gear. In most cases, the listener is hearing 30% of their gear and 70% of the room.

[@mstcraig]

So that I'm not missing something.... Whatever the distance is BETWEEN your speakers, your seating position should be about 83% of that amount, correct?

[@JohnLee-db9zt]

It’s BS. There are so many other factors to good sound.

[@a.s.2426]

No, the converse. See the diagram in the video. You will be sitting farther away than the distance between the speakers, not closer.

[@Dave30867]

Hears a tip before spending money on any audio systems go get a hearing check if your hearing is great then spend time and money on this hobby if you desire .

[@a.s.2426]

It’s not a one or the other situation.

[@sanfordschoolfield710]

Perhaps this works for rich people with large rooms with wide space between speakers resulting in more distance, but in my normal middle/working class home with a normal size room this results in being too close and the soundstage collapsing to inside the speakers and the speakers becoming "visible." Everything just feels and sounds wrong. This just does not work.

[@arthurpendragon1610]

Because yours is not as large as the rooms Jim works with!

[@petekutheis3822]

Works well in my small 10X12 foot or so room. In my case up until abt a year ago I was pretty close. Final touch was moving the speakers just several inches closer together. And the soundstage widened and heightened.

[@dxv-ug3tj]

I totally agree, it's utter nonsense if you don't take into account the other dimensions of the room, and also the furniture, windows, etc.,,,

[@peterbaugh51]

Depends on your speaker design. My tweeters are in a wave guide, so cross streaming in a small room works fine.

[@DirectX3]

Why waste your money if you could move around your audio equipment and furniture yourself in order to get the best sound for your room since every room different to others. I used to work for the record studio setup for so many years and I always told my friends that.

[@arthurpendragon1610]

Jim works large rooms in the far field. 60 degree equaliteral triangle placement in that large a room would be absurd so he prefers 83.5 ratios that work out to a tighter angular degree in width, that is, TIGHTER than a 60 degree spread. When Jim uses his test records on setups he places the instruments the same place every time. And that means it measures close to the same every time. What is the mystery here? And what makes you guys at the Absolute Sound think this is a revelation and somehow more important than the other 99 things you need to do to get the room right? This is interesting stuff but pretty much out of context in the scheme of setup priorities... I do this for a living too and have built over a thousand rooms so I also know what I am talking about. I am pretty disgusted that after pretty much ignoring the subject at the magazine and at Stereophile too---all of a sudden you experts start focusing on one tiny little aspect. As usual one tiny aspect is important in the "high End" rather than the "big picture stuff" is---which is also ridiculous on its face IMO. And pretty much how you guys roll. Buy the guy's book and do the other 99 things and you tell ME what is important then---OK?

[@gormyoder4611]

I totally agree with your assessment. While there can be some good journalism (and maybe some good intentions) from the likes of a Stereophile or TAS, rarely do we see articles on how one can improve one’s own listening experience by focusing on the fundamentals. At the risk of sounding cynical, I think this strikes at the heart of the basic tension these magazines have between getting sponsors and selling new equipment (indirectly) via positive equipment reviews. Worse yet, is system setup becoming a lost art amongst most audio reviewers? While this can sometimes be true, it’s very lazy to say that buying a new audio component will improve the sound quality of your system. How you done all the other thing right? I recently stopped subscribing to both magazines as I wasn’t really getting the value I was seeking beyond music reviews and reader comments. I just want to enjoy the music with the system I already have.

[@JohnLee-db9zt]

Completely agree. These guys, especially Smith, are useless imo. Every room and system are different so you have to do your due diligence. Guys like him are in it for the money and end up ripping off a lot of audiofools. I stopped taking TAS and Stereophile seriously 25 years ago.

[@maximilianocosta6791]

The sound is bad, it does not do justice to the name of the channel, they will also have to learn how to locate a video camera for an interview. Thumbs down.

[@JohnLee-db9zt]

High end audio is a dying hobby in America. So many audiophiles are ready to kick the bucket.

[@67Pepper]

Okey Dokey, brilliant, simply brilliant. Where can I buy your book of revelations?

[@jackhuang1434]

Where to buy that book?

[@TheTASmagazine]

www.getbettersound.com/store

[@JohnLee-db9zt]

You like wasting your money?

[@jackhuang1434]

@@JohnLee-db9zt so the book sucks..... right 👍 good thing I didn't buy it.