Are we really about to ban TikTok? | The Vergecast

The Verge 's Nilay Patel, David Pierce, and Alex Cranz discuss the US House of Representatives passing a bill that could ban TikTok, the streaming news of the week, a Dyson robot, and more.
Further reading: www.theverge.com/24101704/tik...
00:00 - Intro
04:40 - Bill to ban TikTok in US
48:56 - KZbin updates TV app
1:06:32 - Spotify rolling out music videos
1:11:23 - Elon Musk cancels show after tense interview
1:16:28 - What is a (British Royals) Photo?
1:24:02 - SpaceX successfully launched its Starship
1:25:50 - Apple to allow iOS app downloads from websites in EU
1:28:09 - The Dyson 360 Viz Nav
1:32:08 - Nikon to aquire Red cameras
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[@meskin84]

25:57 Nilay and David’s different opinions on China and TikTok shows just how different our generations have looked at China as a world power

[@HRDSalami654]

I don't think they are actually that different, the main thing that Nilay is concerned about is WHY so many people, in a political climate that is so divided, agreed on the ban. His concern was more about the security of the country as a whole than an TikTok as an app. That was my takeaway anyways.

[@tayjn]

59:09 - “I think you’re old” is an evergreen Vergecast quote

[@djexams]

David is coming up with bangers. First “it’s 3500 dollars” and now this.

[@CR-xx3ur]

came here just to watch the video version of this moment

[@thew0rdsmyth]

People forget the US government forced the sale of Grinder (yes, that Grinder) for the same reason. And communication devices were recently found on American cranes made in China. I get why the government would be worried even if there are similar issues with American companies. And yes, the government should show or explain more of the evidence it's seen.

[@gabrielesoul]

I guess they want to prevent what they did themselves all around the world

[@Worth_Noodles]

Nilay really flipped my opinion on TikTok

[@vegev5709]

the fact that Nilay wore camo on the day he made this argument is so funny LOL

[@SaladCookies]

I'm sure there's production considerations, but I for one would love a 2 hour long vergecast (just started the ep but I'm anticipating the inevitable "we're running long" from Nilay pre-lightning round lol)

[@AbbatyKori]

Studio Tour, YES!

[@drunkndrivr]

Nilay is SO BASED in this Tiktok ban convo. Thank god I was nervous

[@rocketmunkey1]

Fun Fact TikTok is registered in the cayman islands not China ! the plot thickens.

[@SrijanChakraborty]

Now is a good time as any, so please dear stranger, can you please explain to me what is being SO BASED here means? I, for the life of me, am not able to clock the actual meaning of it.

[@drunkndrivr]

​@@SrijanChakraborty First you need to know Nilay's history on "free speech", but also there's been so many TERRIBLE arguments around this mainly to score social media clout. Hearing someone in tech clearly define what the bill aims to do, why its doing it, and why it passed 50-0 is refreshing.

[@SrijanChakraborty]

@@drunkndrivrok so being based is like cutting through the BS and giving us the what is what, but from a place of good understanding of the topic?

[@meskin84]

34:14 Representatives going against their constituents is not VERY rare for me, I’m in Texas

[@postnick]

if they loved kids, they'd feed them in public schools.

[@Capricona]

The chance that the evidence they saw was just lobbying money and stock is ~100%. The US government hates it's citizens and will sell them out at a moment's notice for profit.

[@rocketmunkey1]

The president loves kids some might even call him a phile !

[@seste87]

I don’t wanna do a war. Everyone please stop doing a war. Thank you.

[@fellipebrandao435]

As a non us american citizen, it was really funny to follow a 2 hour conversation without them acknowledging that the fact is Apple, Meta and Google (three american companies) posses the same power to and on other countries. And for them tik tok having that on US is the only problem in the room hahaha

[@ellenation2294]

Same it’s hilarious. Irony and totally has this superiority complex feel…

[@Spac3fiend]

It is hilarious. It is also the same thing China has been doing for ages by banning Google, Facebook, etc. If anything, I'm more surprised it took this long for the US to go down this path.

[@SuprBestFriends]

If Congress saw something, I don’t believe for a second those old people knew or understood what they were watching.

[@rhietpas]

Why are you assuming what they saw was a video?

[@SuprBestFriends]

@@rhietpas for the sake of the comment and discussion whatever the type of evidence they saw is irrelevant at this point. My point is most of our elected officials don’t have a very good understanding of the internet and many of the surrounding topics.

[@dmazingi]

I completely agree with you. And recent history backs this up. In fact we really basically depend on the verge to interpret tech problems accurately

[@karlsma7245]

I would argue that the 50 to 0 vote is similar to the vote for the 2nd Iraq war. They said Iraq had WMD's when in fact they didn't.

[@dmazingi]

Exactly!

[@dmazingi]

It assumes the intelligence is real and true. Then assumes that it was presented to the representatives in a way that was in good faith and accurate to the technology and then assumes the reps have the jnowlwdge to interpret it accurately. None of those things have proven to be true in the recent past

[@swng314]

Honestly a really good discussion here

[@Jehutyv4]

Actually listening to the slogan by politicians about protecting the kids is now sounding more like an election slogan for votes. When you look at the situation as a whole, banning Tik Tok is just a publicity stunt rather than anything else.

[@internetghost-jq6fz]

Kids really do care about the news on TikTok, it’s the only place that makes it relatable from interesting people, but I can see how it could be dangerous since they aren’t fact checking what they get fed. Edit: or who they are getting it from.

[@Target135]

I think that Nilay is right about the fact that with how divisive our government is right now, a unanimous 50 - 0 vote after a briefing is not nothing. Then the fact that SUCH a huge majority voted for the bill despite massive backlash from constituents. I don’t personally think TikTok is that big a deal, but if that kind of reaction occurred after a secret briefing… you have to assume the briefing was pretty damning and persuasive. I also agree that they should be more forthcoming in whatever minor way they possibly can be. I’m sure they have reasons for secrets in this case, but we should still be told something.

[@hansolyoon1074]

US social media companies can’t operate in china but it’s totally cool for TikTok to operate in the USA?

[@rocketmunkey1]

All is not as it appears TikTok is actually based in the Cayman Islands !

[@francisyuweh706]

great episode guys! Fun way to be updated on things esp. on the world of tech. Keep it up and this has been a must watch every week

[@ilkoderez601]

You people have such a great channel. I hope it grows and you keep doing it!

[@3ladeRunner]

My favorite thing about KZbin on the phone is adding to queue. That’s what I want on the tv without having to open my phone lol. And quickly commenting..

[@jeelansumaria5711]

Please link to the Neil Young episode in the description

[@hafuridotus]

Idk, from a consumer standpoint Nilay's POV makes sense. But for someone on the "other side" working for our country, you may not be able to reveal all of that info to the general consumer. I just personally don't agree with allowing a foreign asset with so many existing accusations and revelations about CCP ties to have a large stake in America's social media.

[@peperana-zr2yw]

You want to be a country isolated from the rest of the world like North Korea. The g7 countries have not followed this nonsense of censoring a dance app.

[@nscanx]

@@peperana-zr2yw EU banned tiktok from govt staff phones.

[@gabrielesoul]

Agree, we should ban Meta and Twitter worldwide

[@U2haveaniceday20]

I've been watching and listening to this Podcast for Years and I didn't know Neil Young was on the Podcast. I definitely enjoyed but now have to search for it. Thanks also for the great episode on streaming. Thanks so much love it.✌️💯

[@thanos879]

37:42 My friend says that name is already taken

[@shivanshc]

Anybody know what headphone Nilay is wearing?

[@meskin84]

55:04 Dual-screening your phone and tv with KZbin AND KZbin TV is absolutely amazing and more people should do it

[@johndeere3486]

Falling back on “if you saw what we saw” as a reason to trust politician is just the most politically naive statement I have heard in a long time And to keep repeating it as someone kind of meaningful point … And again, to trust the patriotism of US billionaires is also just ridiculous Regulate social media, fine. But tik tok is not some kind of exceptional evil to freak out about.

[@p51wildfyre]

If Tik Tok is a good media, I challenge Tik Tok trusting bloggers to post the PROUD of One Child Policy (1979 - 2015. Long Live PRC! A way of giving credit to PRC success!

[@Bolt_Action_Studios]

Did David just float remaining tic Tok X videos?

[@dat_bernie]

Nilay, there's a reason why creators weren't raising their concerns for Huawei and are raising concerns about a TikTok ban is because it directly effects their livelihood... It's actually pretty obvious.

[@JeremiahTownsend]

A technology podcast where two of the three hosts don’t understand the potential issues of having an adversary control a major social media company.

[@kevinshannon9917]

1:03:00 - my Spec-tacular take on this is most KZbin content is 1080p at most, so it’s probably faster and cheaper for them to not have to upscale every video for the 4K TVs in many American homes.

[@willwalker474]

There's so much to comment on in this video, but I came to say...Tidal had music videos from the very beginning, and you have been able to have playlists with songs and videos for a long time now...I had no idea Spotify didn't have music videos. What have they been doing with all the money they haven't been paying artists?

[@eatbachelorchow]

keen for the studio tour and getting producer liam on

[@Teddward]

My biggest issue with the bill is how what apps are banned is decided. It basically gives the president unilateral power to decide what is good and what app is bad (as long as that app is not owned in the United States). The President already has way too much power. We’ve got to stop giving them power.

[@ethanpatel3622]

No it doesn’t, for any app to be even close to considered for this, they first have to be provably owned/controlled by a specified foreign adversary by congress, which currently is limited to Iran, China, North Korea, and Russia. It also gives the option to divest from the foreign ownership so the app can continue to operate. It says a lot about TikTok, that China is saying it will refuse to sell.

[@drunkndrivr]

Yeah its easy, if app from China and is harvesting data then = bad. If not, then good. It's not that difficult

[@ethanpatel3622]

@@drunkndrivr not even harvesting data, that’s not a national security threat that needs to be addressed by this action necessarily. The problem arises when it’s is provable that they used that data to threaten American citizens (such as journalists)

[@LUISGONZALEZ-dd8rn]

A lot of really chaotic comments for this Vergecast (maybe to be expected considering the subject?). Either way, I did enjoy listening to Nilay, David, and Alex explain their different perspective on the TikTok situation. The reality is that nobody knows what the "truth" here is, aside from the folks who were privy to the alleged intelligence on the subject, and because of this the only thing I walked away agreeing with is Nilay's take that there should be some transparency on said intelligence. The entire situation feels funny and at this rate it's unclear when we'll have some clarity on why there was such a unanimous decision to essentially declare TikTok a threat to the public. Also, walked away from this episode feeling pretty old after realizing that the younger generation may not know what QVC is. Time flies. Anyway, keep up the great work Vergecast team!

[@izakshuvo8434]

4:27 - starship saga - 1:24:04

[@stevene_]

DON'T BUY INTO THE HYPE. REMOTES ARE DEAD. THE VERGE IS IN THE POCKET OF BIG REMOTE. 😅 i only control my TV with an old phone using casting, its easier to find things and using a few buttons to get around an interface is just tedious and stupid.

[@migzcuad]

I have now watched this a second time, twice

[@EddieTee77]

I got so excited thinking hockey was getting popular on tiktok but now I'm sad realizing it was the actual cup company lol 19:40

[@internetghost-jq6fz]

TikTok will not be missed

[@SydneyTravellersGuide]

saying this is ignoring the fact that its been great for lots of small businesses because its not as limiting as Meta's social media. Banning TT is going to hurt so many small businesses and channel money towards meta

[@meskin84]

19:11 YES. DOWN WITH ALGORITHMIC FEEDS

[@izakshuvo8434]

David, Don't put them ideas in Elons Mind Man 37:38

[@samhenrigold]

actually can we have Royal Watch with Alex Cranz as a recurring segment on the show? Not even tech related, just an intermission with updates on that silly goofy totally-unproblematic* family

[@jonmarc876]

I agree with Nilay.

[@Astromanaught]

Nilay is right, Alex and David are wrong. Sometimes it happens. It's not that China says that they aren't directly making pushes, but they could. They own it. There's nothing stopping them from doing it.

[@gabrielesoul]

They just work as any social media, of ban it in the is fear, so is the ban of Meta google and twitter and China, and it should be worldwide

[@X139T]

I hope they ban Tik tok

[@A_Noid]

Nilay has a good grasp of the Tik Tok thing, but it feels Alex and David are pretty much out of their depth on this. I mean, you can't be an expert on everything of course, but still.

[@alainischileno]

Alex asked questions, adding to the discussion, while David was doubling down and spewing Ad Hominem.

[@sullivan4052]

That’s called good tension.

[@drunkndrivr]

David is really good at devil's advocating, but the otherside's arguments are SO WEAK that it makes him look out of depth.

[@thanos879]

You could’ve said that more respectfully but I agree.

[@johndeere3486]

Rupert Murdoch is an Aussie who just bought citizenship to start up Fox News in the US. And to trust “US” billionaires to act out of national interest is insane. Billionaires love stateless borderless existences. They tell governments what to do. Not the other way around.

[@idot148]

Excellent TikTok discussion. You guys should disagree and debate more often!

[@DoctorDull]

Nilay…got to learn how to say Andre Iguodala’s name before inviting him on the show

[@javiersp15]

Based on the comments, boy this is a hot hot buttom topic!

[@theturninggate]

I agree, bring back RSS!

[@burreld]

One issue is the country name and what we see as race is the same. Which is the case for many countries but Trump used the country name like a racial battering ram. So now the line is muddy.

[@gabrielesoul]

It's a yellow scare with red scare

[@designedbyfil]

Can confirm, am a younger dude, just couldn't care less about the news (tech/gaming and hobby stuff aside lol)

[@meskin84]

40:59 We don’t need help “making American kids stupid”, we’re doing that in the USA all by ourselves and have been steadily working towards that goal for the last 30 years

[@thanos879]

I fully agree with Nilay on that TikTok discussion.

[@dragisaandjelkovic5683]

Isn't Nilay consequentually making the case that every country should only allow its national Version of the (relevant Part of the) internet for fear of foreign interference? Wouldn't it be reasonable for every other country to ban american owned and contrrolled social media?

[@reckless1280]

They do this! All over the world!

[@A_Noid]

The US has the luxury of having this discussion, since its where originates most of the large social media platforms that people use all over the world. Sweden’s not going to force everyone to use only the Swedish « alternative » to Facebook. They can regulate its use though. And for American allies, it’s much less of a problem than when it’s TikTok, where on top of originating from an hostile country, it has more direct ties to its government than their American counterparts.

[@turbo-packd9763]

🎉🎉🎉🎉 TikTok will be banned for good! Yes!😊

[@sullivan4052]

LMAO 59:08

[@obvinpro]

16:24 funny you said 4 people on X. The hate you have for Elon can't be hidden

[@romaniravi]

Quality discussion. Joy to hear patel

[@ethanpatel3622]

Nilay is BASED

[@HonuManHi]

It absolutely needs to be banned.

[@peperana-zr2yw]

The land of the freedoom

[@HonuManHi]

@@peperana-zr2ywif you have tik tok, you have signed away your freedom.

[@gabrielesoul]

So should meta and twitter worldwide

[@viperviperpiro]

use VPN!

[@TheAntarcticaProject]

🔥🖤🖤

[@vedanshchn]

India banned TikTok because of privacy concerns and didn’t even drag it like a TV series or make a big deal about it. US should just do it in a go and no it’s not gonna destroy any livelihood.

[@RealTalkWithRickyPaquiot]

*I'm afraid I have to disagree because it will. Many small businesses rely on using TikTok to gain traction to their restaurants, stores, supermarkets and etc. Not realising that it's gonna destroy any livelihood is worrying for those that do make money. It's not just TikTok creators that you may think make money.* And also, our US government are *NOT* in touch with today's times as they have failed in recent years, especially when they once got Facebook creator Mark Zuckerberg to come to the congressional hearing over the years and Twitter as well during the Jack Dorsey days in the past. Our congress has never done anything effectively because they don't actually pass laws that actually help protect American data without banning *ANY* social media and a video sharing service website. It may worked in India *(because of their extreme right wing government over there who don't have plans to protect data from its citizens)* but if you think that our malfunctioning US government banning TikTok is a good idea, you may be out of touch to be honest. I'm against banning it because of government overreach.

[@gabrielesoul]

BJP's India is a US puppy

[@ethanpatel3622]

This is like a highly educated person (Nilay) discussing with people who have no idea what they’re talking about 🤣🤣🤣

[@german-argentine-socialist]

i thought maybe i missed something on the youtube update, but no, it really is a 20 minute discussion on shrinking the video player when comments are open

[@tstartrekdude]

Paul

[@Johan-bb4sy]

It's kind of BS to say that Elon Musks always goes without contracts. He may in this occurance. However, I don't get the giving off on Elon. The guy did pull off SpaceX and Tesla. Your are both on macbooks, well, Steve Jobs was no kind human too.

[@MikeAbili]

SpaceX and Tesla are both companies that Elon bought himself into though.

[@Johan-bb4sy]

@@MikeAbiliThis is only the case for Tesla when it was in very beginning stage and then later he became CEO for a long time and determining factor for their successes. SpaceX he did found with others.

[@JamesGobert]

He’s a blatant racist and overall bad dude. He was given 10 years of the media given him passes even while doing bad stuff but “Iron Man”. He did this to himself.

[@NO3V]

@@Johan-bb4sy I give the following a 95% chance: Had Musk not partnered with the (other) Tesla founders and put in the vast majority of the founding capital, "Tesla" wouldn't exist anymore and "X Car and Energy Corp" or whatever it would be called would be exactly where Tesla is today, maybe a bit better off, as Eberhard almost derailed it..

[@KnightSoulsG]

I hope so

[@NO3V]

Cool. I'm "objectively very funny" on "Twitter".. Now feel free to come back to X - everybody else is still there - even Kara, though _she_ prevents people from giving her the contra she so urgently requires..

[@dmazingi]

Least coherent arguement I've heard from nilay on the vergecast. I can only conclude "they got to him" 😂

[@username-ow3lf]

I've listened to the vergecast since day one and this is the first argument that could not respect Nilay's viewpoint. His aw shucks attitude towards this potential ban simply because a few dozen politicians agreed to do one thing is wild.

[@lujnk]

i love to watch the olympic-level mental gymnastics of u.s censorship.

[@dat_bernie]

It's baffling. Nilay says he absolutely trusts the US Government that they have evidence of foreign meddling, which they have not shown to us. Then says they SHOULD show it to us a few moments later. Why??? He's already made up his mind. It's such a weird take

[@lujnk]

Yeah, i usually disagree with Nilays takes on capitalism but saying he believes in the first amendment but not when concerning “national security” is actually insane

[@drunkndrivr]

@@lujnk what do you mean, a foreign adversary has no basis of free speech in the US. That's specific to its citizens (which also applies to companies since they are also technically people in this equation).

[@BinaryPickle]

I've never noped so hard out of a Verge discussion. Really disappointed to hear you support the creation of the great American firewall.

[@bread22]

2 white are against the ban, a non white is showing his loyalty, very interesting

[@johndeere3486]

This episode is very very very racist and bad

[@TonyMontanaDS]

You clearly don't know what racism is.

[@johndeere3486]

@@TonyMontanaDS clearly

[@ambihextrous]

What a weird and loud way for Nilay to announce he's a fascist and fully on the fascism pipeline 🤦‍♀️

[@drunkndrivr]

Nilay saying congress has the power to vote on a bill is now fascist. Go figure!

[@SydneyTravellersGuide]

This whole TT chatter with no mention of IsrHAEL. sure.