TheViper vs the 2 Best AIs in Age Of Empires II

[@The_Night_Panda]

For those wondering why Rehoboam was so passive this game: Rehoboam lost its scout before finding the enemy, thus being unable to attack untill imp. There are several backup features to avoid this, but TheViper managed to circumvent all of these with a combination of a fast feudal timing and some strong blocking micro which Reho never encountered in any test games. I just updated Reho to have more backup features to adapt in such situations. Secondly it seems some resign rules were not activating in uneven team setups. The updated version has added backup resign rules as well for such instances.

[@david_oliveira71]

Awesome, and even more so hearing that from the developer yourself

[@LeafMaltieze]

idk how custom ai work exactly, but if possible, should probably have them create another unit for scouting if they loose their scout before finding the enemy.

[@The_Night_Panda]

This is indeed one of the backup features I added. The tricky part is that it has to be a type of unit that is not hardcoded to do other things like attacking.@@LeafMaltieze

[@timoflo369]

Can you say roughly how much hours you put into coding the ai?

[@The_Night_Panda]

Sure. I probably spend between 1000-1500 hours on ai scripting and testing overall. While Rehoboam has been my main project most of that time has been used learning rather than coding, as I had zero experience with any kind of coding when I started in late 2020. Also testing the ai tends to be more time consuming than actually making it. If I were to make Rehoboam from scratch with the knowlegde I have now it would probably take a few hundred hours, though I would do many things differently. With the right guidance and ressources I could have probably saved a few hundred hours of learning time, but I don't really mind as the journey has been alot of fun.@@timoflo369

[@MauveGun]

You can't fool me! That's clearly DauT and Hera undercover!!!

[@Lanzal0t]

With Daut saying "Game is lagging. Press 199 for more information." 😂

[@ghaznavid]

I use the vululu mod to replace that conversion sound with a less annoying sound.

[@BalgaBear]

LET'S GOOOOOO! Been hitting F5 for quite a few hours now waiting for this video

[@jonopham]

Hera and Viper vs. 6 of these crazy AI pls

[@husainjam]

Plz make it happen

[@gnochhuos645]

AI and Viper vs. 6 of these crazy Hera pls

[@Jaageful]

Fun historical fact: Immortals or Persian Immortals was the name given by Herodotus to an elite heavy infantry unit of 10,000 soldiers in the army of the Achaemenid Empire. Could be fun tohave them in the game.

[@agustinfranco0]

we'll put their name to the test

[@2cunem]

I watched the old ones and i'm rly hyped❤❤

[@Hjoerleif]

Regarding tedious restart when you practice something new, did you know the restart button will send you to whenever in the game you loaded in? So if you load a save from eg. 15 villagers, the restart button will always send you straight back to 15 villagers instead of the very start of the game

[@RoronaDZoro]

In den letzten 2 Jahren konnte ich den Inhalten von aoe 2 auf KZbin nicht folgen. Dieses Jahr habe ich mir das NAC 5 angeschaut und es tat mir weh zu sehen, dass Sie nicht gewonnen haben. Ich bin dein größter Fan, Bruder. Ich weiß, dass NAC vorbei ist und nicht mehr sein wird, aber ich möchte, dass du das nächste RedBull Wololo gewinnst und ich möchte, dass du wieder an die Spitze steigst.

[@darthcabs]

I was sure you were gonna lose haha, nice job hanging on

[@patonnight]

Maybe they would work better as a team if all the opponents were the same AI? Great content anyways, looking forward for more!

[@timoheinrich8763]

Wow, this was intense! gg!

[@giovanifatobeni2495]

Do these AIs send taunts? That'd be pretty cool

[@mikeenslin8344]

Ever since seeing Vipeys reaction to Rehoboam archer micro I wondered what a match between them would look like.

[@竹-j2z]

I feel like these AIs are over-tuned to AI vs AI competitions.

[@dohc_au]

Hi there, I have downloaded the AI modpack in game, wondering if anyone has any advice on the differences with the AI? There are quite a few, and so far ive only used reho, barbarian, shadow, immortal and the General. Shadow is the most fun for me, but which would be the best to play against to progress my game/skill online?

[@JM-qu5sc]

great game!

[@taekan625]

What a beast!

[@takshak_dawda]

Would love to see a game against 200% handicap AI

[@EhBahSuper]

I think the only option is to kill it very quickly, I managed to beat it with Persians by TC dropping the AI, and had decent results with Portuguese FC into organ guns (only beated it at 180% if I remember). But yeah it would definitely be interesting to see if a pro can beat it other than with one trick pony strategy

[@takshak_dawda]

@@EhBahSuper Ahh the Persian Douche, I tried it once with normal AI and it still managed to beat me by building another TC and ageing up 😂😂

[@siedzihector9938]

Rehoboam since longer time has fixed 1.80F version, that isn't uploaded in mod section. need to be dowloaded manually. Still the best works with Persians.

[@erikbertram6019]

If only you were an AI, you could be the top player

[@greatstag]

get the wolololo monk sounds mod

[@SergioLopez41990]

Vaya capo.

[@stratbomb]

The real question is: can they use transport ship??

[@jeanjacquesrousseau1955]

Not sure about Immortal but Rehoboam is a true onetrick pony. It can only play arabia and franks or persians otherwise it bugs out. If you look for a challenging and adaptable ai for any map you can use barbarian ai for example. It is still very good and easily beats the shit out of the normal extreme ai in team games or 1v1.

[@snophund]

Did Immortal change strat because of deer lame?

[@BKP68]

How do they compare to ex AI 115% ?

[@edmis90]

20sec in and I ask myself why Viper doesn't pick the "Immortal_HideStrat" version or whatever it's called. No way Immortal will spam the chat with what it's doing. Right? Right?

[@juansebastianpelaezvilla7821]

He jugado AOE durante mucho tiempo y no entiendo absolutamente nada de lo que esta pasando acá.

[@ysolda9614]

21:31 how do I do this? Selecting only the monks from a mixed group of units

[@PEACHES429]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/o4LJaXp6qdmVetksi=8OrlDko4CQOPPz9N&t=112

[@PEACHES429]

Shorter answer is you shift click the monks within the group

[@ysolda9614]

@@PEACHES429 tyvm I will try it next game, I hate those monks stuck in my armies

[@PEACHES429]

Good luck with the wololo my friend@@ysolda9614

[@squadwiper79]

@@ysolda9614 I think they control group all monks beforehand

[@andydonachie2642]

I too bug out when my opponent full walls

[@jacobbos2208]

1v3?? Haha great game!

[@gleb-gavrilov]

ouuuuhhh, common! set AI dificulity to hardest!

[@arn0000]

24.24 : why am i trapping AI ? 11

[@kch2.4]

red's army doesn't attack at late game? 😸

[@ryansabin9098]

viper is and will always be the goat

[@blackhairedgees]

Viper can you pls challange the 200% hera ?

[@NotLiminalYrruf]

Imagine if the ia went Persian tc drop (douche)

[@insopitus8503]

When does the AI know it's time to ff?

[@HaloNeInTheDark27]

When does the ai know how to do anything?

[@EugeneOneguine]

Their early to middle game is much stronger than the Extreme AI. However, it feels like their end game falls short in comparison. Also, Rehoboam seems to really dislike structures in general. I played a game against him, and idled his 30+ army with one tower. He was juking tower shots for 10 minutes instead of just raiding the open side of my base.

[@cpugwash7085]

Yeah, it really feels like they don't know how to deal with a castle. (Among other things)

[@The_Night_Panda]

AI behavior can be simplified as either automatic behavior or DUC: Automatic behavior is what is mainly used for most AI's including most featues of the Extreme DE AI. Having the game engine doing a lot of work behind the scenes can make it much easier to quickly make the AI do complex tasks such as attacking and defending which includes alot of individual unit retasking and retargeting behavior. The drawback is that such behavior has a lower cealing in terms of effectiveness and might have some exploits which can be hard to avoid without completely circumventing the automatic behavior. One example of this is the way the automatic behavior affects military units and how they respond to enemy buildings. An AI unit will by deffault tend to attack enemy buildings in range and mostly only attack enemy units as a side effect of encountering these along the way to enemy buildings. To avoid throwing away units under enemy fortifications most AI's have hardcoded retreat-functions for their own units near enemy fortifications but it's difficult to find the right balance between being wastefull and over causious. Forward enemy buildings are even more problematic for ai's as these will often be attacked by AI units even when the AI is not trying to attack. This can lead to buggy situations where AI military units just run back and forth while getting conflicting orders of attacking (automatic behavior) and retreating (DUC behavior) from the building. DUC is roughly the AI equivalent of selecting units with the mouse and right clicking them to do something. The only way to avoid all buggy behavior related to automatic behavior is to create DUC for all purposes in the game. Unfortunatly this is extremely complex and time consuming and so far Immortal is the only AI to have succesfully managed this. Other top AI's use a combination of automatic behavior and DUC and have to compromise on certain abilities as a result. This is also why even well rounded AI's like Barbarian or the extreme DE AI will struggle against an enemy tower rush. In the case of Rehoboam it is mainly optimised with DUC for the first 30 minutes of the game after which it starts to rely increasingly on automatic behavior. While I'd love to make its late game stronger, I simply don't have the time needed for such a large project. Fortunatly there are lots of custom AI's available that each offers something different for those preffering a more late game focused AI.

[@EugeneOneguine]

@@The_Night_Panda You are the maker of Rehoboam ? Damn, good job dude. It's really fun to play with, and I'm gonna improve a bit by doing so. Can you answer another question for me ? I played this game against Reho, well, my lady friend started the game, she's about 300 elo, so she was clearly behind, but Reho didn't attack once. It surprised me, so I thought "can I take it from here and still win despite having half the score ?". I went 7 TCs boom, Reho didn't touch me until he had imp cavaliers, at which point it was way too late and I won the game. Since Feudal he had a full army, and never used it. I had no walls, no defensive structures. What happened there ?

[@synergygaming65]

Eventually AI will be the best player especially when it doesn't experience nerves or frustration, anxiety about a big match, mental fatigue.

[@Campos2889]

Sou seu fã do age 2 aqui do Brasil The Viper!!! Vc é muito fera mesmo!!! Pena que só tenho um netbook velho, e só jogo o age 2 da versão antiga ainda, o the conquerors, que é o único oque meu humilde e velho pc suporta!

[@gregoriomariano5070]

sem vergonhera e mendicancia no video dos outros

[@Campos2889]

O cidadão... cuida da sua vida!!! Elogiar alguém por jogar bem, qual o problema? Vc tem dor de cotovelo... nem te conheço cara, vai achar o que fazer o invejoso!!!

[@titanayrum]

Viper plays 1.7 speed? Why does everyone play 2.0 speed online?

[@EliasHasle]

- Now he is actually converting my vils! What a nerd... 🙄 11

[@dmj747]

gg

[@wilimeteiml]

Hi Viper what do you think of that idea': I play at low elo level, about 1200 and I like to play random civs, but like the AI I bug out with some civs. There are some Civs I really don't like to play. I would love to have the possibility to ban civs, like you ban maps, and then search for a game with your chosen random civs. You got my idea? I'd love to hear your opinion on that. Thank you for the content as always and have a great day. Love from Switzerland.

[@Sasha-sd6jo]

#nerfAImonks

[@SaVaGeGmYbEaR]

It's blowing my mind that I can say "10 years ago I was about 1700 on Voobly" and even then this was a 15 year old game that I played "10 years ago." Thanks to Viper, Reso, T90, Spirit, Memb and many more for blowing this games longevity out of the water!

[@nikkiyee7317]

Saw this ai they kind very good Awsome ai script i wan one

[@KurtFan69]

just use mbl vululu mod 🙃

[@giacomov.5120]

A couple of castle from AI and they could win

[@edmis90]

Do 1v7 Immortal's but with 200% handicap ;)

[@NickRgibbs]

I think we saw just how strong 200% is. It would be fun to do 120 or 130% and then scale up as needed for a fair win. Steam rolling AI just wouldn't be that fun to watch. I feel like 200% just gives so much of a timing advantage with tech (on top of the obviously double other things) that you're guaranteed to steam roll 7 players with it. You can try it yourself against the extreme AI, I was squashing them like I had cheats enabled before they are even in castle age

[@Quality3rr0r]

The comments in the chat are freaking cringe. Everyyyyyone knows it better... just let him play the game...

[@thomaswilson6591]

more AI it's fun

[@lukasvideosify1596]

What would you say is the ELO of those two AI? I am 1150 and they are sure better than me.

[@thewashh]

They are around 1200. Immortal is probably a bit beyond that late game. It can be difficult to make a straight comparrison to human elo as ai’s will be easier to exploit than humans but can seem stronger than 1200 if you play against them as you would a human.

[@lukasvideosify1596]

Thank you for your input! Normal extreme AI usually gets around 1000 ELO in lategame - especially when spamming monks and Paladin. DO you think the Immortal AI couold handle two Extreme AI on an open map?@@thewashh

[@thewashh]

@@lukasvideosify1596maybe😅 You can download it and find out?

[@NickRgibbs]

@@lukasvideosify1596 This would be interesting to test. The other thing I thought could be interesting is to somehow have different Elo's play against them without knowing they are vs AI. I feel like knowing its AI changes how the player matches up vs them. Like the way Mr. Viper dealt with all the monks from immortal vs that same monk push from Mr. Yo or another top player.

[@lukasvideosify1596]

Yeah, that is true. Where can I download those Ais? I am not only an avid watcher of all of this content but also a content creator myself. And I have many friends ranging from 700 to 1800 ELO. So I could basically pick one guy for every ELO range and make a small tournament. I am actually also quite sure at least 4-5 people would want o collaborate in this. It would just be quite a management issue to contact all those people and get it all organized. But then again why not? I will keep that in the back of my head. But for now I am competing in a tournament and will focus on this.@@NickRgibbs

[@louishack5343]

Ai viper vs two Ai😂

[@davidhilbig9283]

Why did he choose Standard Difficulty for the AI at the beginning? I would choose Hard at least .

[@EmilWall]

The difficulty setting has no effect on these custom AI

[@The_Night_Panda]

It actually does. These AI only work properly on hardest and extreme. While the single player lobby had difficulty set to standard it seems something was going on behind the scenes as the game was actually played on extreme difficulty. You can tell this by looking next to the game time and also by the fact that the ai's would have been several minutes slower to feudal age if they had actually played on standard difficulty.@@EmilWall

[@EmilWall]

Oh, my bad then @@The_Night_Panda

[@david_oliveira71]

Why AI Difficulty on Standard though??

[@edupignatelli]

The scene of the AOE2 AIs is a bit underwhelming compared to that of other games. They cannot really deal with meta strategies, for example, they bug out if the opponent is fully walled. Also, their strength does not come from superior strategic decision making, but only from their higher APM (super archer micro, yada, yada, yada...). Don't t get me wrong, they are going to trash me, I just mean that they are not at a good human and superhuman level yet.

[@Jacks_Suffocating_Nihilism]

I hope you realize that these bots are manually scripted hobby projects, as compared to that Starcraft AI which was the product of Google funding, a formal developer collaboration, and thousands of employees with access to supercomputers.

[@Jacks_Suffocating_Nihilism]

And for the record, even that AI was not "making strategic decisions", it was essentially following a flowchart determined by mimicry of games from the top players, whom it could not beat once constrained to human APM.

[@5cmain207]

I think quickwalling is cheating against these AIs because they struggle against walls

[@NickRgibbs]

I think its funny though. I would have left them trapped to waste the pop space