female idols fighting against unfair standards

[@thewayifelt]

there are many more issues i could have touched on in this video, and more context might be needed to explain certain difficult concepts, but it was getting too long so i cut certain parts.. but in the future I might make a second part. we will see

[@kimlip_tree2009]

have you seen the movie "white"? it totally fits into this video. Yhara zayd has a great video about it

[@vanessameow1902]

Need that 2nd part😭

[@catalinacordova9083]

I would really like to see a second part!! :)

[@terencesilva4499]

Did you notice that in order to have a title nation's (insert name here) a woman or a female group they need to have a large male fanbase

[@escritora84]

Thank you for this. As someone who's more of a gg person, this was spot on. The fact that someone like Shindong from Super Junior can be a bigger dude but demean plus size female idols is wild to me, and a reflection of what these girls must go through everyday. I would love more entertainment companies founded by women - i don't think it would change the beauty standards or high expectations placed on them, but it would be a start.

[@melliexcx]

Entertainment companies run by women would solve nothing because women perpetuate harmful ideas as well and K-pop fans are a large part of the problem. A female ceo can’t stop that.

[@KenSicX]

Is there any male idol other than Shindong? I've never seen one. Male and female idols have the same standard for weight. Just look at them.

[@lynx3845]

Just because a woman is in power doesn’t mean they’re exempt from perpetuating patriarchy. At the end of the day, power corrupts. This issue is more intersectional. WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY IS IDOLS SHOULD UNIONIZE-

[@fatimahanwaar306]

@@lynx3845 exactly Pick-me feminism is a thing (which is misogyny disguised as feminism)

[@nightmarecastle5288]

Videos like these make me think of Sulli. A child star criticized for everything. Being too fat, not dancing hard enough. Being in the group, not being in the group. Dating, wearing clothes, going out. Literally everything she did was picked apart. Someone so bright, empathetic, funny, and extremely talented gone far too soon.

[@h.z.4153]

which is why it makes me absolutely furious to see this happening all over and over again. Sullis death shook the kpop industry. Domestically and internationally. People were making promises about how this is going to be a historical moment in the way kpop idols were treated and how this is going to spread awareness on cyberbullying in a way that has never been before. Yet we are still seeing idols like wonyoung, yuna, soyeon, hiyyih, dayeon, somi, jennie, lisa, karina and an insane amout being torn apart for every little thing they do. When I first got into kpop I was the type of person to only engage with the content posted by my faves. I wasn't really interested in the commentary or opinions of others. After I found the commentary channels, comment sections, posts of other kpop fans my experience started being less enjoyable. I am nowhere near seeing myself as the personal guardian of any kpop idol but it honestly just pisses me off to go on a video that mentions wonyoung and go to the comment section only to find people stressing over the way she glanced at who knows what. I am tired of people camping in the comment section to not miss a second of body shaming everyone who is not their favorite idol and I am even more tired of people who are denying that. My friends are not kpop fans so they don't know anything about it. The only way I can engage in topics related to kpop is the internet but it genuinely ruins the whole experience. Seriously. And the worst is if you see people posing as allies against the misogyny that female idols are getting only to find the same person shitting on another female idol for no reason because they are their self-proclaimed rivals of their faves. It feels like a crazy clown circus meets therapy session for evil 5 year olds. It's ridiculous. Sorry for the rant.

[@diamonddreams4538]

@@h.z.4153 i really feel this. i like wonyoung and other female artist, but it seems that every time i open the comment sections its filled by hate comments about their weight, their face, their talent, a detail that no one pays attention to, but the make it everything. Its honestly so draining and becoming tiring to interact with kpop content online anymore (espcially gg content), so i cant even imagine those girl and women who are the one receiving the end of it.

[@aestheticcat8976]

@@diamonddreams4538 I seriously thought I was alone, I'm in kpop for the music but it gets so draining especially when you see what goes down online. I've literally come close a few times to dropping kpop all together, it's all because of the way some fans behave online that drains me. Seeing all the hate, picking apart idols and even petty fan wars it really weights on my mind. I cannot imagine being in the shoes of an idol.

[@xrrgr]

@@h.z.4153 PERIOD

[@mangovasco3296]

@@aestheticcat8976 I remember I dropped it for like 9 months and honestly felt so alive but here I am again and the same old BS is occurring but at an even greater intensity. It's "protect all minors" until one of those minors ends up having a second of spotlight and more screen time than their favorite 🤦🏾‍♀️

[@nezukochan86]

"It goes to show that male idols have more freedom to speak out against the patriarchy than female diols" Just the irony of that is enough to tell you everything you need to know.

[@aprils1888]

And then you make a valid point about misogyny & some dumba$$ hits you with the "stop making everything about gender" or "it's not about gender" line

[@samgyu]

LITERALLY! I posted on my community post abt how those “she is so lazy” “she doesn’t try hard enough” comments are forever rooted in misogyny and someone had the audacity to tell me that i don’t understand what misogyny means like??

[@EvalleDeMonaco]

I swear, what are we supposed to do? Turn a blind eye on real problems?

[@samgyu]

@@EvalleDeMonaco kpop has a huge problem w sexism its pretty hard to be a kpop stan when all these toxic stans like to shove unwanted misogyny all the time and when we talk abt it we always get told that “its just a joke, its not that serious” like bffr its a world problem tf u mean its not serious

[@EvalleDeMonaco]

@@samgyu FRR IKR?? Ignoring it and not talking about it is not gonna help like we need to

[@samgyu]

@@EvalleDeMonaco hope people wake up

[@Nyaonix_]

Literally what happened to Kyla and is happening to Jiwoo makes me sick to my stomach. They are literally children and are still growing and must be already so self conscious. Everyone is at that age and idk I just can’t imagine how they feel.

[@NoctLightCloud]

agree 100%. Also, that all is happening while we have freaking Shindong still doing great and getting MC jobs and show jobs. Suga of BTS also at one point gained some weight and the comments weren't NEARLY as mean as when freaking supermodel Lisa gained like 3kg...

[@aestheticcat8976]

It's not just this but you cannot please the ones attacking them because if they do lose weight, let's say to appease the demands they would still receive hate regardless but for being far to skinny. I've seen this many of times, it's odd because it's like what do they really want and can they make up their minds but also why do you care that much?? Yoyo dieting is harmful on the mind and body, they're very restrictive diets that's basically about starving yourself to lose the most amount of weight before the next comeback which is a short amount of time. 🙃

[@asserm.8047]

didn't blackpink express that they WANTED to help in music production? i think there are less self produced ggs bc companies DONT LET THEM produce

[@VideosForYou90]

Exactly! Reminds me of that one clip of Jennie where she said that someone stole her notebook out of the company's building where she had written tons of potential songs and lyrics...

[@DaughterofMother1]

That's most likely to be the case because they don't want songs from the women's perspective coz that wouldn't sexualize and infatilize them as much as the company and male audience wants

[@kaykat0134]

@@DaughterofMother1 They probably wouldn't want to be exposed in any lyrics as well 💀

[@crazyondaime]

@@bangbang1837 there is, she literally said it during a vlive (i think it was in 2017 or 2018)

[@kant.68]

@@DaughterofMother1 Y’all smoking something hard😂

[@sln146]

15:54 during the entirety of girls planet 999, i couldn't possibly escape from hundreds upon hundreds of people constantly commenting on yujin's age. someone uninvested in the story would've though that the girl in question is in her 60s and physically unable to dance as well as the other trainees, but no...she was twenty fucking five lmao. i truly hate people sometimes

[@StupidChildd]

And now a certain Kep1er member’s akgaes on Twitter are constantly calling Yunjin a hag, even though a large percentage of them are armys. Aren’t your faves hags as well in that case? The internalised misogyny is unreal.

[@sln146]

@@StupidChildd it's so goofy you just know they're 12...or just crazy idk

[@mylovechoerry2233]

She is old for being an idol that it

[@sln146]

@@mylovechoerry2233 is being an idol a supposed to be a job for kids?? in what world is 26 old, please don't speak on this subject any longer because you truly don't know what you're talking about

[@Mary_12334]

@@mylovechoerry2233 25 is very young, many many idols from older generations that idols from younger generations look up to, were older in age

[@drea-i2y]

15:06 A little more context on that: a LOT of Korean men in their 20s are anti-feminist (over 72% of them vote conservative). Boygroups, if they *are* feminist (which imo is rare) are praised for it bc their fans are mostly women who also support feminism. If you look at the An San controversy during the Olympic Games (the article 15:14 is referring to), women were calling her cool and inspiring while men were calling her a man-hater simply for rocking a short haircut.

[@ashh6297]

Yeah Korea as a country is VERY conservative and anti-feminist rhetoric is very normalised and popular. That's why gg idols like Sulli and Irene got crap from the Korean public for publicly reading feminist books

[@drea-i2y]

@@ashh6297 Exactly. I think the reaction is different for girlgroups who mainly have female fans (like mamamoo). Theyre much more empowered and supported in those types of situations

[@mangovasco3296]

@@drea-i2y its actually quite interesting considering that as a moomoo I've noticed that our fandom is deeply rooted with misogyny and pick me's who try to bring other girl groups down simply because they aren't vocally focused. At this point no fandom or group is safe

[@jayjoseph-r5t]

As a Korean , if you live in Korea then you would know

[@kunpunko]

males cannot be truly feminist.

[@ohnoits]

12:14 Preach! It annoys me so much when bg stans say “they’re so funny for a gg” or “the dance is so difficult for a gg”! Nowadays 4th gen is changing this sentiment but people used to say this all the time a few years ago

[@Huangraisy]

It’s weird bc ggs are funnier and ggs have better music

[@Ri57490]

@@Huangraisy women are funnier than men in general. All my aunties are funnier than my uncles. It's just that with comedians, audiences don't receive jokes from a woman's voice as readily as from a man's voice. There have been studies where men and women deliver the same information to listeners, but the listeners responded to the information from a male voice more. Even though the information was the same. This is extremely sad.

[@Huangraisy]

@@Ri57490 very sad and people will just laugh at these kpop men jokes because of their looks. If they have some sort of attraction to said idol they’ll eat up anything to do for no reason

[@byDEVITA]

@@Huangraisy ggs have better music? 😂

[@Welchs-Fruit-Snacks]

@@Ri57490 Y'all just be saying anything...

[@Nessienez]

I love the video, I just wanted to add that misogynist is so normalized in Korea, that some of the nasty comments towards a female idols image are from women themselves, as a feminist as well, I found that depressing

[@espeon871]

Same its so disappointing

[@precious8129]

12:15 The amount of backhanded compliments Everglow got during First era. Like does it kill you to just say they are talented,the song is hard to perform and they did a good job?

[@mayeda.]

literally what i was thinking abt, my whole twt feed at that time was full of ppl going "omg they have such a hard choreo for a gg" like ... did you really have to go and say that last line

[@MikuHatsune159]

I often feel bad for idols who make it big as kids, because you most likely cannot tell the difference between people who genuinely want to get to know you vs the ones who just want a part of your fame. Or at least once in their lives someone will do this to them. I once wanted to become big on a stage but looking back and figuring things out, I would not regret the decisions I've made to look away from it all. So much is wrong and while I think I could shoulder it for a bit, it's not my lifestyle to live that way.

[@NoctLightCloud]

maybe in your 40s? Like Robert Downey Jr 😀

[@MikuHatsune159]

@@NoctLightCloud haha that'd be an interesting turn for me, wouldn't be too opposed to at least a little bit of spotlight. I missed a couple opportunities already 🤭

[@aprils1888]

When EPEX got a lightstick... I gave C9 the biggest side eye ever. Like WOW! cignature can't even get an album???

[@mlpmlpmlpmlp1]

FR!!! like, my girlies have been around longer than epex and we dont have an album or a lightstick?!?!?!

[@Huangraisy]

Literally … how did that group with the glamorized mental health and n@*i concept get a lightstick ??

[@espeon871]

@@mlpmlpmlpmlp1 literally

[@fatimahanwaar306]

female idols also get kicked out of the industry for becoming mothers (Yulhee from Laboum Kahi from After School Sunye from Wonder Girls etc.) but Pick-me boy group stans would bring up the "hate" surrounding male idols like Chen from EXO and Bobby from iKON for becoming fathers just to piggyback off the double standards against female idols (when the "hate" surrounding them is justified)

[@lornam1142]

Yeah. There’s this weird desire by some Kpop fans to make their fave seem like the most mistreated person in the world. A few angry fans is not that big of a deal. Getting kicked out of your group is.

[@fatimahanwaar306]

@@lornam1142 except there's nothing good about piggybacking or using "whataboutisms" to ignore the clear double standard against older female idols while male idols are still allowed to stay in their groups even if they got married or had children did Chen leave EXO like he was supposed to? No! instead he was still in the group meanwhile female idols retired from the industry after getting married and having children people always play the "it's their choice" card when it's not always the case

[@lornam1142]

@@fatimahanwaar306 I agree.

[@CM_CM_]

Both Korean presidential candidates focused on young male voters for their campaign - the president voted in stated he wanted to abolish the Ministry for Equality and Family Planning because it didn't do enough for SA victims - as if that couldn't be improved on without abolishing it. His other comments about women were unpleasant too. There is a history of misogyny in government and a huge increase in popular culture, particularly within the 4chan equivalent communes in Korea gaining popularity. Its a cultural issue, government issue, kpop issue - nation wide. In anticipation of a at least one reply being 'X country is worse' or 'your county is probably just as bad' - yes, all countries have something to work on, but this video is specifically about Korea and K-Pop - you can discuss more than one thing and hold multiple views about those topics.

[@espeon871]

Yep

[@sayenka6093]

Blackpink have missing writing credits in their discography. Jennie and Jisoo were never credited for Stay, Lisa was never credited for AIIYL and who knows what else they might have worked on but weren't allowed to disclose 👀 I swear to God, YG is one of the shadiest companies. Everything Blackpink related is literally a horror story. Jisoo telling us they are constantly being observed, Jennie's writing journal going missing, Lisa getting scammed out of money and the ridiculous rule of not being allowed to drive 💀

[@h.z.4153]

I feel like yg is doing this on purpose with their idols to make themselves look like the mastermind of everything. They also never credited B.I. and he produced soo many songs. I don't know if it's confirmed but it's been mentioned multiple times how they used to take away lyrics and songs that Jennie wrote in her notebook.

[@NoctLightCloud]

I honestly don't know how any girl can go and willingly audition for YG? And I'll never understand why Somi left JYP and went to YG. JYP treats his girl groups with a noticeable preference, she would've had a field day in ITZY.

[@neb.9489]

@@NoctLightCloud She probably would’ve outshined Itzy being the only member other than Chaeryeong who was already known. Even Chae who is well known still didn’t have a huge fanbase when they debuted

[@h.z.4153]

@@NoctLightCloud tbh I think for the most part they just couldn't agree on the image that they evisioned for her career and maybe contract rules.

[@Ri57490]

Why don't they sue YG? Also, if BlackPink renew their contract with YG, then I won't feel sorry for them. Because they have a chance to get out when their contract expires

[@VideosForYou90]

THIS needs to be watched by every kpop fan omg I wish it would get like 1 million views! This topic is so important and your video was so well made and informative! Thank you for uploading it! As mainly a girl group stan and especially someone whose favorite idol is Jennie, it's extremely disturbing how female idols get treated...

[@aestheticcat8976]

This came up in my recommendations and by chance I clicked, now I'm subscribed. I agree with you.

[@ave_rie]

I think it needs to be said out loud so we can really feel how bad this is: I have a feeling that Grown MEN are the primary target market of girl groups. Us teenagers-young adults are only targeted as secondary consumers - as sheep meant to buy things (that arent music/direct merch) promoted by the ggs so we can get closer as “ideal” females in the eyes of men. 😢

[@ClaireEmilia]

I think that is pretty obvious

[@espeon871]

Its so upsetting tbh so happy there's groups like gidle and also like i hate how esp men's feelings on what's valid and what's not are always prioritised and women esp in misogynistic society's are so abused and ignored if youre not the ideal or "respectable" according to a patriarchal society

[@sidney6522]

Okay hold up. If you round out the entire Kpop fandom in the world 83% of fans are female, so I dont think grown men are the main audience. Even when it comes to girlgroups ... the Kpop industry is trying to cater to female audience with the rising of "girl crush" and "strong woman" concept. "Cute concept" which was catered toward men is literally dying nowadays because it doesnt bring them money.

[@kant.68]

The pple in fan meetings and concerts and in the community say otherwise: mostly women between 14 and 26 yo compose most fanbases

[@Pihitcsa]

Soyeon is the one who want to break the stereotypes with her songs.

[@skrgrnd]

pls don't break stereotypes, that's stayc song :(

[@pigeondance]

​@@skrgrnd hehe nice one 😎

[@katarzynap.2150]

Such a well prepared, complex video! Thanks for talking about this important topic. Even if ggs are the ones carrrying the industry nowdays the problems still haven't disappeared ps. I would love to see more female producers in kpop

[@ruum9]

Agree so hard. The only reason 7 year old girls are selected to train as idols is because of the push on visuals. The female idol has to be very skinny and maintain a fresh youthful look or else nasty comments will be attatched to her back for the rest of her damn life. And that type of thinking doesn't follow male idols. Of course they have to endure strict standards too but it makes me so upset how the most harsh and most impossible ones are being thrown onto female idols

[@g.z.bxannx5772]

Bruh people called Boa a hag cause she is in her 30s.....I remember how happy i was to see someone who is more mature then the young age girl groups we see today (not that im againts younger girls or boys debuting) and still preforming and writing songs.I loved her comeback CAMO. In that comeback she remind of an empress that is smart,experience and beautiful ,exulting respect everywhere she walks in.I also like how the older idols have more serious and mature topics they touch on in there songs. @felt Hello,Im another random person who is happy to find your channel today and how mature and well compsed your videos are.It remind me of my highscool days where i would sit with my friend on a bench and talk about kpop and movies.I watched like 5 vidoes of yours today and i cant stop,because its just so interesting and nice to listen and ponder over the topics you talk about. Wish you to have a good day ^-^

[@luu0w0]

thank you for not letting the internet forget about Eddies video about Kyla

[@crazyondaime]

I'm really happy you mentioned the producing/writing music aspect, bg stans really love that "your faves can't pick up a pen" argument, especially directed towards BP, when female idols have expressed multiple times they WANT to produce or write but they're just not allowed to. Case in point, Jennie and Rosé have both written, produced, AND composed music, Lisa and Jisoo have also written lyrics (and not gotten credited), and yet, recently, Jennie and Rosé's collab with Ryan Tedder and all the music they worked on got scrapped by YG. At this stage in their career the biggest gg in the world is still not allowed to freely work on music, so what's left for smaller ggs? It's so ugly to go "haha women can't write, they're not real musicians" just to defend their oppas.

[@anaj5693]

This is such an apt video. The double standards cannot be rationalised or justified. It pains me to see young girls forced to mold themselves into the version that the audience prefers. The whole process of training is mentally scarring and takes a toll on the future health of the artists. I really respect GGs like Mamamoo, Itzy and solo artists like Sunmi who throw light on to the toxic standards in the industry. It's upsetting that most idols are seen as less of human beings and more of products that the audience consumes. I really wish the industry changes at a grass root level where artists can holistically grow and improve as human beings first and artists second.

[@deorbitiny]

now i get why despite girl groups having a stable fandom , agencies will cast them aside once they've reached their peak :'( its so unfair

[@notyourdays]

thank you for speaking on the mysoginy. instead of it getting better for women is getting even worse than it was 5 years ago, it baffles me

[@Esandeech2]

I worry for idols who debut so young. I feel like BoA and Seohyun ended up well, but how will others fare?

[@Chuu_Vault]

Kpop stans & Pledis ruined Pristin. Also on the topic of female idols producers, a lot of them are being told that their efforts are not good enough (just ask Yeri), and the ones who produced is because without them their groups would fall apart bcz of the mismanagement BS of their companies (Soyeon had to learn composing cuz I-dle debut was taken forever)

[@MROYvids]

I remember when I first discovered fromis_9 I thought they were one of the most visual groups I've ever seen. I was unaware at the time that they were formed from the survival show, Idol School. When I researched Idol School and learned "the only requirement" was to be pretty and that was the overarching theme of the show it all made sense. BTW this is not hate to fromis_9 as they are one of my favorite groups, but it just shows how companies view female idols.

[@amalhussain9849]

I'm SOO happy Gfriend was in the choreo section 🥺 they're my ult group and seeing their talent and hard work still being recognized is amazing

[@NoctLightCloud]

I went to Mcountdown in 2015 and saw Gfriend live. They performed Me Gustas Tu and no joke, they were by far the best dancers! I also saw them when they left the building. There was also Wonder Girls (Somi♡), HyunA(♡), and GD & TOP who performed. But the latter two were so uninterested and went off the stage quickly after finishing yet they still got the most fanchants, while Hyuna was so friendly and waved to everyone etc and she still gets hate to this day. GD and TOP literally did drugs but Koreans still respect them while HyunA is the biggest Korean soloist woman but gets slut shamed all the time even though GD is topless in performances while Hyuna always wears sth.

[@boombayuna536]

this video needs to go viral! i hate how people have been ganging up on jennie for years now - even after what happened with sulli (bless her

[@StarAreebaGoRandom]

They never stop picking on blackpink especially Jennie I don’t think they will stop anytime soon

[@gyal7892]

they keep calling her lazy and making fun of her for her ankle issue i hate seeing her name being used by any one but her solo stan’s nowadays/a bit exaggerated

[@aurora-cc6hk]

​@@gyal7892 they keep hating on jennie for being "lazy" on tour when I can promise when I went the the tour on dallas everyone agreed she stole the show.

[@gyal7892]

@@aurora-cc6hk frr and even solo stan giving them bad moments

[@Risalingisa]

main reason people hate on them is cus theyve done cultural appropriation or are racist

[@SoSBxo]

everything you said FACTS im so sick of toxic bg stans and their superiority complex shitting on female idols

[@dreamglowsupernova]

i can't express with words how much i adore your channel. thank you for this type of content, it is really needed in kpop spaces, like the point you made about gg idols being producers. subscribed for sure

[@jhiaka9888]

Why can’t they just say they like little girls and go.

[@anyone1111]

I think it’s weird how young girls are supposed to look like 30 year old women, and 30 year old women are supposed to look like prepubescent girls with no body hair. Well except on the eyebrows, eyelashes, and their hair. It’s honestly appaling, predatory, ped*philic, & just downright nasty behavior especially because it’s only been towards women because I’ve never see any of that commentary directed towards men.

[@sidney6522]

Well i think it can go both ways. The amount of aunties drooling their mouth over Niki from Enhypen lol. And also men with facial hair are deemed ugly in Korea. Like not everybody has money for laser hair removal...

[@HopeRele]

This is kinda like why I like Lesserafim and Newjeans cause mostly women enjoy them. But everything else it's correct. The kpop industry is inherently exploitative in general and it cannot be reformed under capitalism

[@kaheis4566]

you probably won’t see this, but id like to say that you have very quickly become one of my favourite kpop youtubers, if not one of my favourite youtubers full stop! your content is so well researched, i love the depth you go into with the sociology aspects of things and your overall analysis, keep up the great work!

[@HailToTheMeep]

You just verbalised why I have ALWAYS been uneasy about kpop girl groups. I secretly hope that with more international fans, critical thinking open dialogues can increase, from intelligent women chatting about things publicly such as yourself. And that slowly, this can change the landscape. (What is the members of Le Sserafim being scolded about by those men?? They are skinny, young, pretty, and talented?? That scene really put me off!)

[@Camila-eb4lb]

the sad thing is: bgs fangirls ride on this fantasy that the members they adore are not sexist, when the truth, statisticly speaking, is that they probably are. also, bg fanservice is so strong and intense (MUCH more than ggs) that creating this parasocial relationship with fans actually benefits them when it comes to situations like these.

[@sophietessier8998]

so i'm a second gen stan and don't follow any 4th gen, but i am baffle to see the comment under woonyoung and yuna post. Any things they do get a lot of hate. i never saw such huge among of hate. Calling them "pick me" when they sing alone in a rom? like do you know the definition of a "pick me"??!!! All the hate about their body, is just an easy hate wagon they can jump on. i'm so tired and realy start to get angry such young women can't do a thing without being mocked and called name, by other women who are jealous. i really expected 4th gen stan to be more evolved since they always talk about inclusivity and body positivity but turn out they spit all their good intention once someone rub them the wrong way, using the most mysoginitic and sexist insult....

[@notyourdays]

exactly. And you should see how terribly mysoginistic kpop fans are in stan twitter is 10x worse. The worst part is that they don't get concecuences for it. Even in stan twitter if a hater gets to be racist, transphobic or homophobic they are quickly shut down and ratioed by the kpop community but this never happens with the most vile mysoginistic comments you could find. The double standars makes me want to puke

[@boombayuna536]

i absolutely hate how wonyoung and yuna get treated ugh. the internalized misogyny is so strong that enough gg stans villainize "hyper feminine" and cute female idols and call them pick me's - when in reality they're themselves acting like the "i'm not like the other girls" by doing that. preference or not, it's weird how "tomboyish" female idols are always popular and never called these things like ryujin or lisa for example. just let them all be...

[@12s0ph]

You’ve explained something that’s been itching at the back of my brain for ages, thanks. I always wondered exactly why boy groups had less strict standards- now I’ve realised from this video it’s because the majority of their fan base is girls. Unrelated, but I also feel like girls have lower standards in guys, is this just me?

[@xrrgr]

@@xarialunar yup

[@Kanikaroy.]

​@@xarialunar lmao I think it's the opposite. everyone wants a handsome and rich man. no one will care if you not one of it.

[@LAMJ2004]

no it's definitely true not just in the korean industry but look at how all girls gush over basic looking white marvel guys but brie larson is not considered hot enough

[@xrrgr]

@@Kanikaroy. going out into the real world disproves this.

[@sidney6522]

@@LAMJ2004 basic looking? Chriss Hemsworth is definitely not basic lol. He is one of the hottest male figures in the world.

[@evamoprea4748]

Omg!! I really wish there would be older female idols. I want someone more mature, who I can really look up to. I want someone who feels relatable, but also wiser. I really like when female idols still perform in their 30s. Honestly, I hate that Sm still gives RedVelvet extremely childish songs with almost no meaning behind them.

[@fatimahanwaar306]

true! with extremely cringy titles as well

[@arianawendymangagirl]

I wish we could get more mature songs from RV - more like wildside and less like birthday

[@catalinacordova9083]

Very informative video, I found your channel recently and I really like your content! Thank you for speaking about this important topics that sometimes are overlooked. And yes we should keep protecting and defending our female idols!!

[@aqualex99]

this video was so important and I'm glad i got it in my recommendations, I've become more of a gg stan over the years and i have unfortunately noticed all of that you mentioned, even more than when i was starting to know about kpop, it's so sad female idols have to go through all that and i feel so angry we can't do much other than support them and keep defending them like you said. great video! also i just subscribed, i have watched two more of your videos already, great content as well 🤗

[@lalalila2]

Wow thank you for this video, it has opened my eyes to some many issues

[@pigeondance]

thank you so much for making this video!!!!

[@sheetalyadav4563]

we cant do much , they have to stand up for themselves ,come out against mistreatment, file law suits against exploiters and not allow anyone to overstep their personal boundaries. the voice need to be raised from within for a bigger and permanent change.

[@amaamaa3856]

This so sad, but true

[@niniii2550]

I love the effort you put in for research and trying to cover the most important subjects. Great video.

[@rithtrbl]

as a (g)i-dle fan since their debut, the soojin situation pisses me off to this day, especially since she was proven innocent. she stood up for herself and never apologized, and I guess the public didn't like seeing a female idol stand her ground. I'm glad the group is doing well now, but her being basically shunned from stepping outside her house is the most unfair

[@sabrinaleedance]

The comment about Kyla and then similar comments about Jiwoo make me sad. That they should have to "manage themselves" to fit into the industry. Why? Why should they have to? Why can't they be the ones to change it ? To normalize NORMAL young women's bodies. All bc stubborn gross male fans who objectify women say so?? It's crazy

[@quasistellare]

Thank you so much for your content! ♥

[@felicityb93]

11:55 I'm no dancer, either, but I am a singer who can do a few cute moves. And girl groups having ~simple~ choreography being a drag almost made me cackle for two reasons - 1) back in the olden days of yore, a promotional method for girl groups was having choreography that easy for the average person to emulate and 2) girl group choreography is more dependent on expression than technical skill. Although, don't get it twisted; *the* dancer of K-Pop, BoA, would embarrass all of our male faves. And I would stan every fucking second of it. Sorry Jongin, she's cooler than you~ (The version of Jongin I made up in my mind would agree with me. And then step on me.)

[@NoctLightCloud]

I went to Seoul in 2015 to see a solo concert of BoA. I also saw her at SM Town in Japan and have some of her albums at home. She is awesome!

[@maemae96]

Been loving your videos and this one is no exception. Would love to hear you talk about sexuality in the kpop industry, I feel like that’s such a rich topic that so many of us are insanely passionate about

[@shadow4380]

Many female idols want to take part in producing their music, but often it's the company that refuses to release those tracks or, as some fans speculate in some cases, don't credit them

[@sur_un_nuage]

i throw up a little bit when i hear the words self management

[@HauntedMansion24]

only facts here

[@TheElectricitychick]

I appreciate the amount of exid in this ❤

[@vemarqui]

when you mentioned cignature my heart ached 😞

[@SH-is9xl]

I disagree slightly with the comparison between Soojin and Hyunjin, because although I'm sure misogyny impacted their treatment, they're two different companies and Soojin's scandal was also propelled by having her accuser also be a public figure.

[@mirarose2591]

Agreed

[@jinsouljung5906]

I don’t why bg stans get mad someone mentions the double standars on gg and bg

[@icebreaker5303]

This is such an important video

[@fatimahanwaar306]

fans are saying that older girl groups (Girls' Generation and KARA who recently had comebacks this year) should retire from the industry but have no issue with boy groups being active

[@lacienagalacey9454]

I assume that most if not all STRICTLY bg fans hold sexist, misogynistic views. That whole “Taennie”ordeal is a great example of it.

[@notyourdays]

for real, just yesterday i saw armys saying that taehyung following her by mistake in IG was "the peak of her career"

[@lacienagalacey9454]

@@notyourdays I…. It’s so sad to see. I had to take a step away from twitter because them girls were coming for throats and it was disgusting.

[@valtaep1ece796]

It’s kinda of wrong to assume such things about people you don’t know

[@lacienagalacey9454]

@@valtaep1ece796 I can assure you that my assumption is hurting none of them. And I’ll continue to do so, thanks.

[@Mary_12334]

@@valtaep1ece796 but most people do have internalized sexism and misogyny

[@guitarchris76]

I’m drawing a blank on what the first MV used in this is. It’s the one with the red room. I know I’ve seen it and have looked at everything that I thought it would be. Help!!!!!!!!

[@Lunaiinmidnight]

Great video! I just want to ask about the academic sources that you listed in the video cause I would love to look through myself to learn more!

[@thewayifelt]

i have just put them in my description, hopefully you can access them !

[@fatimahanwaar306]

the dating bans should only be put in place since the idols have busy schedules not because idols have to be "available" to fans

[@NoctLightCloud]

13:37 "a fanbase who can forgive"? Forgive what? Dude was proven innocent. Let it go. (also a lot of knetz outside the fandom unjustifiably hated on him just as much as they did on Soojin.) Bad example (imagine it happens to you and people use the word "forgive" while you were literally innocent) but I get what you wanted to say. I would have used the marihuana scandal by Gdragon vs the "drug" scandal by 2ne1's Park Bom as a better example, cause in that case, GD did indeed smoke it while Bom's substance wasn't even drugs but medicine, yet she got scrutinized more. Or the Hyuna and Dawn scandal. If it were a male popular idol and his secret gf from the same company, they would've never been kicked out.

[@katgreer6113]

demonising hyperfeminine idols....

[@felicityb93]

9:00 Whenever people say this, I want to fucking scream. Now, more than ever, groups live or die by how well their company treats them. The industry is SO saturated that groups CANNOT just depend on good music, talent, and looks. A group can have great music, be ridiculously talented, and all look like goddesses, and they will still flop because they were drowned out by all the other groups with great music, that are ridiculously talented, all look like goddeses, *and* have a company that actually gives a fuck about them. You wanna see a demonstration of this?! Look no further than LABOUM and Brave Girls. First of all, both groups are Mother^TM. They both have discogs that are top heavy with bopiannas. Stan them!! Anyway, both groups had songs go viral in 2021. The difference?! Brave Entertainment jumped on that and immediately began to wall paper Brave Girls anywhere they could. Gobal H, on the other hand, did nothing. As a result, Brave Girls is everyone's new favorite gg and LABOUM... Still exist. Now, there is a reason why LABOUM didn't start promoting again like Brave Girls did (Global H ain't have no money), but I feel that proves my point more. Journey to Atlantis and Rollin' were always good songs. I was obsessed with both of them when they first dropped and was just as obsessed when they started making waves again. Shit, I was more obsessed because of the memories I had associated with both songs; it felt like reuniting with an old friend. LABOUM deserved the same kind of love that Brave Girls was getting, but they ultimately missed out because of their company. We have all seen comebacks tank faster than my patience for men just beginning to understand that patriarchy is A Thing^TM because their company refused to put any weight behind it. C9/J9/Pussy Pat 9/whoever they fucking are is directly responsible for how terribly cignature is doing. If they gave cignature more love, cignature would definitely be killing the game. Because ASSA?! Bitch... When that chorus hit for the first time, it felt like I had been throwed clear across the room. It hit like a fucking sledgehammer. It was SO GOOD!! cignature has the potential to that AND MORE to the Korean real time charts if C9 could be bothered to actually do the fucking work. Every gg we've seen in the past three years has the potential to do that if their company had the money/power to promote them properly. Contrary to what iheartkpop99 on Twitter says, you don't need to be a million seller to be successful.

[@pigeondance]

you're so right, especially about Cignature!! Assa SLAPS! Nun Na Na slaps!! even Arisong slaps, it's kinda so bad that it's good lol. the group had a signature (pun intended) sound, they were gaining momentum after Assa, but the company did nothing with that 😢

[@princesselydia2475]

Vraiment un grand merci a la créatrice de cette vidéo moi je suis multiples Stan, je stan des groupe féminine comme masculin et sa fait depuis 3ans que je suis fan de kpop j'en n'est vue des choses dans cet univers musical qui mon beaucoup dégoûtée comme se genre de sujet qu'elle aborde dans sa vidéo, j'ai souvent l'impression que les girls bande doivent fournir des efforts de monstres juste pour pouvoir avoir ne serait-ce qu'une petite place tout sa juste pas ce que se sont des filles ( v qui fait l'erreur de s'abonner au compte de Jennie, Jennie qui na absolument rien demandé va recevoir des tonnes de messages haineuse, un mec qui porte des crop top c'est stylé, magnifique et sexy, mais une fille qui porte ses même crop top c'est une pute une provocatrice une fille qui cherche a tout prix a se faire remarquer , ) vraiment tous ses choses la m'attriste beaucoup et j'espère que les gens vont prendre conscience un jour que c'est du n'importe quoi et que sa doit arrêter

[@kimlip_tree2009]

guys cignature's song boyfriend is sooooooooo good please go listen to it

[@kimlip_tree2009]

OMG YESSSSS!!!! GO READ "KIM JIYOUNG BORN 1982" i hear it's quite good :)

[@daerincakes]

The feminism one annoyed me the most. Feminism is the belief that men and women are EQUAL. If a male is being praised for being a feminist, then a female should too.

[@sudiptamohanty4201]

Facts

[@annikalee3351]

i agree with most of your points. however, i feel that your use of examples in two instances was flawed. 1) blackpink and yg mistreatment example - while in principle, i agree that bp should be allowed to have more opportunities for comebacks and group activity, i feel this is an inadequate example of mistreatment. i feel that the scarcity of comebacks is a deliberate marketing strategy for bp. bp are marketed as these high-end, exclusive idols - evidence is in each of them being brand ambassador for a high fashion brand, absence from more common variety shows, shortage of music show appearances, etc. they are literally designed to be exclusive; that’s their brand image and that’s how they make money. having fewer comebacks obviously supplements this, perhaps even serves as the foundational basis of the marketing strategy. note that other yg groups (i.e. the boy groups) are not marketed in the same way and therefore don’t have the same scarcity of comebacks as bp. 2) the idols expressing support for feminism example was not a good example of misogyny. yes, attacking feminists is inherently misogynistic. and there probably is a gap between male and female idols who express themselves as feminists. the examples you used though, did mot really illustrate this point. this is because of an additional variable you have not considered - culture. scrutiny for feminist idols is often sourced from more conservative cultures (e.g. korean culture) and support for feminist idols is often sourced from more progressive culturse (e.g. western culture). yes, whether the feminist idol in question is male or female will probably affect if they are scrutinised or supported - but your examples didn’t really illustrate this.

[@VixenValori]

can u give a review to G-idle's Nxde?! I think it's very fitting too✨

[@yassatron]

Great video 👍

[@nicoleloss7987]

Most of what you said is true But I would like you to know that lesserafim has creative freedom.

[@giogaleira7271]

One thing that always get on my nerves is, tho i agree with all critic about bp's discography, i don't get why people are so mad about their success. There so many mediocre male artists along the decades that were as or more famous than them, so why can't exist a famale group with mediocre music as well? Like, get out Hope to see more gg and female solo artists rising, with amazing or mediocre music 🖕

[@NoctLightCloud]

agree. imo even dudes like Neyo, 1D, etc are mediocre yet only mediocre female singers get all the hate.

[@chelseanycheng]

fax no printer

[@beomkyutie1112]

off topic but i was jamming to time to love hehe

[@kimlip_tree2009]

also, saying "no ggs don't produce music" ummmmm soyeon???? EDIT: I did not mean for this to sound like an argument against the creator of the video, I was directing this towards mysoginsts on the internet

[@valtaep1ece796]

Is she the only one?

[@kimlip_tree2009]

@@valtaep1ece796 no dayhun wrote on Scandal which is one of my personal fav bsides of twice's discography :)

[@westpalmdani]

@@kimlip_tree2009 chaeyoung wrote basic imo one of twice best tracks

[@kimlip_tree2009]

@@westpalmdani which album?

[@westpalmdani]

@@kimlip_tree2009 between 1&2 their latest comeback

[@deorbitiny]

marina 💗💗

[@lacienagalacey9454]

Real question. I know that women in K-pop are shamed for their weight gain. But is there an exception to this? Because Jeonghan from Twice has gained weight and although she faces remarks about her weight. I feel like her band mates and the company are steadfast behind her and support her despite this. Which is great! I’m just curious what others think. Is it because she’s eldest so there is a sense of respect towards her. I only have her as an example because she is the only one I’ve seen be able to do this.

[@lacienagalacey9454]

To add to this, I do not think that the company is the above all company. They do participate I guess a bit in it, by pushing her more towards the back during choreography. But otherwise, she’s the best treated I’ve seen

[@notyourdays]

twice is a well established gg who has a big fanbase, is not the same. If they were only relying on the public it was going to be another story but onces don't care about jeongyon's weight, more about her mental health. in the last couple of years women's fandoms have increased a lot and I think that's thanks to the popularisation of the girl crush concept in 3rd gen. in 4th gen companies started making gg's concept more for the female gaze rather than the male gaze, like they did in 2nd gen and beginings of 3rd gens, cause they saw with BP that a gg marketed for the women could be profitable. This is changing kpop in my opinion, women's fandoms are still not as big as men's fandoms even when they are flopping on every chart but they are getting close, this could mean abig change for women's careers in the next couple years. I hope for the best cause women deserves everything, period

[@lacienagalacey9454]

@@notyourdays Thank you for taking the time to write that and the explanation.

[@lily-wg9zv]

Jeongyeon haven't been an exception at all, twice is a super big group and have a stablished fandom that support them no matter what so they are going all out to defend jeongyeon and bully her haters but she has still gotten tons of hate, edits and gross nicknames everyday

[@NoctLightCloud]

in this case, luckily JYP is backing her up. He loves his girl groups. Look at how he still kept Suzy and Wonder Girls, and elevated Sunmi to a popular soloist while he dropped 2pm, 2am, GOT7, etc...

[@tarotaro3862]

What is the song in 1:09 its been driving me nuts that i cannot remember ir

[@Mary_12334]

hush rush by chaeyeon

[@fatimahanwaar306]

for female idols having short hair eating a strawberry with both hands or crying during award shows doesn't make them "pick-me's" but dating older men does such as former FX member Sulli dating Dynamic Duo member Choiza which went against her views on feminism or IU dating older men as a way for her to go against the "nation's little sister" nickname she was given by the public fans who are defending this need to be educated

[@ludofratta2328]

I always wondered why people are suprised when a young girl debut and always say "oh my god she is a child she will get sexualized". What do you expect when they have to face ageism after 30? I'm not saying it's right for a 14 year old girl to debut (just as much as it isn't for a boy), but if it is her dream and she knows she will likely have to end her dream at about 30 if she is lucky enough, I don't blame her. Besides many times it's the company or the concept that sexualise the child is the freaking fandom. Especially when the youngest are main something in the group they get more sexualised especially main dancers or centers. The shit people like Niki and Wonyoung had to go through for literally just slaying the concept is wild. And we are all acting as if minors are pure and innocent until the day before they turn 18, but the day after you can say the nastiest thing cause they aren't minors anymore... hypocrisy right there. If people weren't obsessed with sexualising in general and especially young people we probably wouldn't have has much of a problem with "older" idols as we have now, cause many of them are slaying just as much as the new gens and it shouldn't be ignored just cause they are 30

[@fatimahanwaar306]

Wonyoung from IVE isn't a pick-me but Hwasa from Mamamoo is because she went from being a feminist by wearing revealing outfits during live performances and having songs promoting female empowerment to dating a man 12 years older than her the "hate" she's receiving for the relationship is justified since age gap relationships especially in K-Pop are furthering the misogyny nothing is empowering about it especially when fans want to "protect" female idols from older male fans

[@lornam1142]

What’s wrong with dating a man 12 years older? She’s almost 30. At some point, age gaps stop becoming a problem.

[@fatimahanwaar306]

@@lornam1142 stop being delusional using "she's almost 30" doesn't make a proper argument you need to stop trying too hard to be open minded by wondering what is "wrong" with it when everything is due to how age gap relationships promote pedophilia and misogyny

[@fatimahanwaar306]

@@Lolori88 this isn't about her being being a "grown woman capable of making decisions" stop trying too hard to act like you're being so open minded that your brains fall out! this isn't "babying" but it's common sense to be against her being in an age gap relationship while calling herself a "feminist" which is just hypocrisy since it contributes to the misogyny she's supposedly speaking out against! especially in a country where women are only considered "attractive" if they stay young forever! stop being a hypocrite acting like it would somehow only be an "issue" if she was younger when she's already younger than her boyfriend regardless of age itself! being a "grown woman" doesn't make one less likely to be groomed! educate yourself and grow up!

[@sayenka6093]

I'll be honest. I would rather say Blackpink are the second biggest band in the world than the biggest girl group. Because that implies that there are male groups other than BTS outselling and outcharting Blackpink which isn't true. Why can't we just directly compare them? Why do we have to separate them by gender like we're in elementary school?

[@Faye-Jane]

I see what you are trying to say but I say “Blackpink is the biggest girl group” bc of their achievements. Nothing to do with comparing other boy groups. I would prefer saying the biggest girl group bc that’s what they are.

[@sayenka6093]

@@Faye-Jane Yeah I know. But why can't we say both? It's like we're afraid to put boy and girl groups in direct competition while we constantly pit girls against each other at the same time.

[@flowerinepriv]

@@sayenka6093 but this video is specifically about girl groups, and it just sounds better in the context op used it in

[@KatherineMendoza-et1uf]

When will Hyunjin be free, Lia also was accused and she's still there, blame cube for not standing up for Soojin and she had an actress against her, while Hyunjin there wasn't evidence only a graduation book and Koreans found out that it could be bought

[@NoctLightCloud]

This!! This is exactly what I critisized about this video too. This way, the false accusations just keep spreading and kept alive.

[@KatherineMendoza-et1uf]

@@NoctLightCloud because no one cares what truly happened, just misleading info all for the sake of keeping their narrative and their hate for him and skz

[@KatherineMendoza-et1uf]

@ーchoi so? Different companies anyways, there are double standards but there's also this guy from seventeen and monsta x who also got it and stayed in the group and no one talks about it, be fre

[@KatherineMendoza-et1uf]

@UCwwR1WUndrqbNTEGFPajMiA Lia and Hyunjin are from the same company, she got accusations and even the police later said they can't say the alleged victim was lying AND she's still in the group, nor Garam or Soojin are in JYPE so what do they have to do with him + people don't actually believe Hyunjin's case because it's baseless, posts were deleted and some were changed several times, there weren't documents about bullying comitee (Garam) nor did involve an actress (Soojin) so it's different anyways

[@adjass]

Wait what so Soojin and Garam are kicked out on false accuse’s but hyunjin can stay ( Which is good but the girls also had to stay)

[@vrishabhandari4349]

Lia was also accused of bullying, jyp didn’t even put her on a break blame cube for happened with soojin not hyunjin

[@MrEshah]

It's a bit unfair to put the blame in one basket alone. Kpop is a product of it's enviroment and reflects the cultural and social norms of korea because the primary market has so far and will for a while be based in korea. The standards are set by both men and women living in it. They do seem archaic to an outsiders point of view certainly and are shifting towards western ideals as of late. But they aren't really all that different on how western equivelants have and in some cases still treat their stars, take disney for example and the huge control they exert on their cast. Ultimately the blame on all of this lies on the customer as the industry as a whole is only providing a product that has proven to be profitable. If the market demanded the artist to be as natural, authentic, outspoken or what ever, that would be exactly what the companies would race to provide. Girl groups being overshadowed by boy groups from the same company is seemingly unfair certainly, until you take a step back and put things in perspective. Which is difficult admitedly as they are people and personalities. But they are also in essence products, and for a business it is natural to favor a product that is more profitable compared to one that isn't as much. And there's no logic in how yg handle their things.. but yeah, the industry does have a lot to improve. But the real reason why things are how they are is because it brings the most revenue, which is controlled by the consumer (comprised of both women and men mind you). Change the demand of the customer and the industry will follow the money.

[@kimgraylulu8539]

omg

[@hat6131]

What is a woman. That’s my question. I have no idea.

[@SOlovemusic4evaful]

this is why i find it so hard to support gg's. I don't like the overly feminine typical imagine and music they produce, and that they seem like prisoners in their indutry. i dont want to support the men behind these talented but unfortunate women. It does nothing but push it forward instead of challenge it

[@maddyrevenge]

There are a number of gg who don’t have overly feminine music or concepts, and I truly don’t believe they have any more or less agency than most bg. Why not support those types of groups?

[@nevereverigoteyesonyou8377]

What is wrong with overly feminine music? I like cute concepts compared to overlydone pretentious girlcrush music....its okay to say you prefer this over that but assuming that girlcrush concept girlies have all the power just coz their lyrics say so is naive..... And both artists (who make feminine or girl boss music) are treated equally ie. Badly..... Both of them have somewhat same restrictions compared to BGs

[@hanng1242]

The "sponsor" situations certainly victimize female trainees/idols more than male ones. But when it comes to stuff like company rules, scandals, etc., you need to first ask oneself if girl groups and boy groups are actually in the same market before we can say that there is a double standard or that it is unfair. While k-pop acts of either sex are in the same industry, from what you have said in this video, it sounds to me like they are different markets. According to yourself, fans of boy groups are overwhelmingly female, whereas fans of girl groups are more demographically representative. You have also said that boy groups generate more consistent revenue because of the commitment of their fans, but girl groups cannot rely on this. What we have here are two different markets. We have one (boy groups) in which demand is sticky, and one where that is not the case. Because demand for any particular girl group is fluid rather than sticky, the competition in the girl group market will be fiercer, even if there are the same number of groups active at any one time in each market. From this, it stands to reason that female idols need to be "more perfect" than male ones, not because of misogyny, but because of economics - the competition is stiffer, so the product needs to be better. The other economic reality is that while men earn more income than women in aggregate, women spend more than men in aggregate; because the consumer base for the boy group market is overwhelmingly female, the boy group market is more profitable than the girl group one because the former has a more loyal customer base and one that spends more than the latter. This isn't misogyny; it is consumer preference *driven by women.* We can have a discussion about why this is so, but it isn't a result of choices made by the industry; rather, the industry evaluates the preferences of the market and cater to it. Remember, the product the entertainment is selling is the idol, not the music. Decisions about how to make the product most appealing, therefore, is also economic. It is simply reality that what is deemed attractive in a man is different than what is deemed attractive for women. This has been true in all cultures throughout all of human history. Humanity is a sexually dimorphous species, so the elements important for male and female attractiveness will *always* be different - it isn't "The Patriarchy" it is biological reality. Standards will therefore always be different and social engineering attempts to change this are doomed to fail and lead to unhappiness. When it comes to what is important, attractiveness in women require 3 things that are rather easy to detect - youth, beauty and purity. In contrast attractiveness in men have more components and are usually not readily apparent. It therefore stands to reason that physical attractiveness is more important in the girl group market than in the boy group market. There is no conspiracy to oppress women here; these are economic decisions made to appeal to consumer preference caused by human nature. Entertainers in the K-pop industry are called "idols" for a reason - they are supposed to be perfect. It is therefore silly to argue that it is unfair to complain about the demand for perfection in female idols because perfection is the very thing that is being sold. Furthermore, the most important component of male "perfection," is the ability to provide and protect, but that is already taken care of when it comes to male idols because they are employed (as idols). Moreover, to the extent that drive and ambition are factors in evaluating how well a man can provide, they necessarily already exist for male idols because of the rigorous trainee system. It isn't that female idols are less driven or capable, but rather these traits contribute less to the fantasy parasocial relationship because they don't make a woman any more attractive. The "double standards" for male and female idols are not really double standards because the nature of the product is different. Foe example, the reason why dating scandals are more damaging to female idols is because men value a woman's innocence (in sexual matters) whereas for women, experience is is either unimportant or a benefit (because women assume that if other women find a man attractive, there must be something "good" about him and therefore will also be more likely to find the man attractive). To rail against this is simply an exercise in self-delusion. These differences are universal through time and culture. Asserting that this is unfair is like believing that it is wrong for water to be wet. Beauty standards are not set by (straight) men. They are set by women. When women look at other women, they are interested in what she wears, who she is with, how elegant or tacky is her jewelry, how good is her makeup, how good is her hair. Men don't care about these details - they only care if she is pretty or not. The fashion and cosmetic industries base their standards on what appeals to women, not men. Designer handbags are not purchased to appeal to men, they are purchased to establish hierarchy amongst other women. The particularities of shoes - height of heel, thickness of heel, pointiness of toe, color, material, decoration - men don't care so long as the shoes make the woman's legs look good. There is no "Patriarchy" forcing these beauty standards on women; women govern other women with them. Men are not the ones "slut-shaming" women. For men, a woman's sexual history is the about whether she is wife material or hookup material. Either is fine as long as it fits what the man is looking for. Men don't care if a woman is a "slut," they simply put that woman in the "hookup" box. Finally, I want to note that complaining about "fat-shaming" is special pleading. Women have no problem whatsoever asking a potential date how tall he is but get upset if the men ask them how much they weigh. Both have to do with physical appearance, and at least with weight, it is something that a woman can change (whereas height is simply fixed). Complaining that "fat-shaming" is misogynistic but having a height requirement for a potential partner is either hypocrisy or it is blindness to the privileges of womanhood while looking at the hardships.

[@raquelbogantes341]

I for sure agreed with you in a lot of topics but Hyunjin’s topic was misleading. The girl that left (g)idle wasn’t even proven guilty of bullying bc the company didn’t even care to investigate, in which I agreed with you. But Hyunjin was only suspended bc of the wave of accusations that people were throwing at all idols that year. In the end j^p did investigate and it was resolved he wasn’t part of the bullying, just people wanting to have their minute of fame. This just wasn’t bc of “their girl fandom” as you were suggesting, it was probably once of the worst times for being a stay and being so conflict bc in the kpop world you never know if people are telling the truth or just want fame. Hyunjin was not accused of bullying!

[@vrishabhandari4349]

Lia was always accused of the same thing jyp supported their artist man or woman, it obviously the companies fault

[@raquelbogantes341]

@@vrishabhandari4349 but I’m not talking about the lia situation, plus this situation also never was proper investigates and yes it was the company’s fault but hyunjin’s case wasn’t, just wanted to make that clear :)

[@nevereverigoteyesonyou8377]

While this is all true,we can't ignore the fact that majority of the hate towards female idols come from female fans of BGs out of jealousy.