Long and Low // How To Get Started

[@drorydressage]

Very nice to see a trainer understanding both positive and negative reinforcement, and knowing when each is more effective. Way to go.

[@jp8649]

Wow, these comments... And the dude that keeps coming back to pick your video apart, but has embarrassingly bad videos on his own channel... Yikes. Everyone is a super talented, super special internet horse trainer extraordinaire~. What you're doing is great. I was trained to train completely differently, but I think it's really important to stay teachable. None of us knows all the answers and getting your ego mixed up in your horsemanship leads to mistakes. Thanks for doing what you do and putting up with the elitists.

[@TheWillingEquine]

Jenn Palmtree I appreciate your comment! And I whole heartedly agree. It's important to be open minded and always be ready to learn

[@helenhodge-croom9635]

She stated it several times that this a building block to long n low....the foundation to collection...not that it was collection itself!

[@cecyliapiskorska2794]

Stamps Step one 00:00 Step two 2:25 Step three 3:25 Step four 5:55 Step 5 7:57 Step 5.1 11:20 Step 5.2 12:13 Step 5.3 13:45 Step 5.4 15:10 Step 6 15:23

[@SandraHippoLogic]

I like it that you explain positive and negative reinforcement to train this. In negative reinforcement the hors learns to be re-active (waiting to what the handler is doing and react on that) while in positive reinforcement the horse learns to *offer* behaviour and *make the decision to do the behaviour*, which can be more beneficial in training future behaviours, because you work together and build friendship and connection.

[@TheWillingEquine]

Exactly. Man I made this video SO long ago too. Many things I do differently now! This was a great place to start though and does help many people take an R- approach or do a combination approach if they want. It's a seed planted 🥰

[@SandraHippoLogic]

@@TheWillingEquine Absolutely agree. And when we notice we would do things differently when we look back on our older videos, it's a sign of evolving! And, as you say, it stays valuable for others who are just there in their journey. I too have many videos to look back on and think:" Oh, would do that very differently today." I also remind myself that hindsight is always 20/20. ;) Love your channel, keep up the good work for the equestrians and their horses!

[@wendybrown2701]

I totally agree with you and the time you take with your horses to teach them. The ones making the negative comments do not even realize where you are coming from or going. They should make their own videos instead of trashing you and your intelligence. You are doing a great job and the horse will love to work for you, longer and harder, because they enjoy being with you.

[@TheWillingEquine]

Wendy Brown thank you so much for the support and nice comment! :)

[@duskexx1742]

super old video, but I like how you're not demonizing negative reinforcement! I feel like if everyone was a bit more open to trying different training techniques, horses would be a lot better off :D EDIT: I have no memory of making this comment, but I now train with positive reinforcement, and a huge emphasis on choice. I find it funny how I said 'open to trying different training techniques', as if negative reinforcement isn't the default, lol.

[@JonnaMartinezCrochet]

Great video. Looking forward to trying this to build my Standardbreds top line and create a stronger canter. Thank you.

[@KerryHoward-j2j]

This is the most useful video I have watched in a very long time. Thank you!

[@TheWillingEquine]

Glad to hear it!

[@robertpage4991]

Loved this video. In seventeen minutes, you've said what it would take others to do in hours. I'm an Australian english-style rider, and know that your technique is equally important for dressage horses. Particularly enjoyed the chambon - I think it's a marvellous tool. Thank you for your genius.

[@lsmeela3522]

This is great and correct. No pain compliance with tie downs and straps etc. Excellent job!

[@elliereese4114]

This is an amazing video.... I love how you ignore all the hate and only come back with something nice and educational to all those haters😊. You are a great role model and a great trainer to your horses!😘

[@mandym6016]

glad I finally found someone to explain to me what I have been looking for. I just got a new horse who has gone through many owners (7 we know of) and he was used as a roping horse with his previous owner. As with most rodeo horses they have no sense of collection in their gates which is mostly why my horse is so unwilling to drive up under himself from behind and drop his head. I want to teach him to be a hunter under saddle horse as well as a western pleasure horse and do over fences which he used to do with one of his owners a while ago. I believe your training methods in this video will help me greatly. This spring I really want to start lunging him in a chambon after I do all those stretching exercises. Thanks!

[@TheWillingEquine]

I'm so glad I could help!!

[@STAR4369]

This is great! I have a horse with kissing spines and arthritis. We are learning all about this method and long and low to help him strengthen his back. Switching into more back flexion and using his hind end better. This is a good tutorial on how to slowly get them into that position.

[@TheWillingEquine]

Glad to hear it! A slow and gradual introduction will be very beneficial!

[@STAR4369]

@The Willing Equine I have a question.. how often do you recommend doing this kind of work? While I know that are many benefits to stretching horses, I recently read that prolonged stretching can cause harm. I'm sure it's different for every horse. But, once they understand stretching. What is a good routine with doing it?

[@TheWillingEquine]

I do multiple workouts like this a week and briefly before rides to warm up the horse. As long as the horse is really tracking up and they aren't throwing themselves on the forehead. You want stretching but not nose to the ground mosing around

[@hyunjini7586]

I can't believe I just found this video. I'm so happy that somebody well known in the horse community has taken a step towards actual sanity and real horse biomechanics.

[@TheWillingEquine]

I'm glad you found it too! Thank you for the kind comment.

[@mostfit2008]

thank you for this video, I finally understand how to begin this process of reaching for the bit with my youngster. I have only worked with him twice and he is already understanding and responding. thank you again for this video.

[@TheWillingEquine]

Julie Luther that’s great! So glad it’s helping.

[@DariaHarruff]

Why use a bit There's no reason for it

[@sophieowens371]

could you pleeeaaase do a video on how to teach lunging?

[@emmagarrett9658]

i’ve been looking for a video just like this ! i appreciate it

[@lucasa1849]

I've found there's a way easier way to achieve this. I work them in the roundpen or on the lunge and as soon as they show a sign of relaxation I stop, let them rest and reward them with a treat. This isn't so much about teaching a horse to keep their head down but to encourage relaxation. I also find it super important to not forget the hind end. Once you get a horse moving though their body and really using their hind end, their head automatically drops. And that way you prevent them from being on their front end. The foundation of long a low work, is hind end engagement. A good example of this is my lease horse. I ride him on a loose rein because he's not ready for collection and contact yet. All I do in the walk and trot is gently remind him of his hind end with my whip. Once his hind end is engaged and his feet step under and track up, his energy starts flowing and his head drops into a wonderfull long and low position. If I were to mess with his head he would forget the rest of his body.

[@TheWillingEquine]

Thank you for sharing your experiences. I used to take a similar approach, but found it was less effective for many horses and often caused a lot of conflict and stress. This approach has less fall out and does focus on hind end engagement. As explained in the video, the head lowering is only one part. It follows the hind end engagement. :)

[@PurpleCowboyTV]

Feeding the horse from the hand is the third worse piece of horsemanship on earth. Horses do not regard food from the hand as reward, but connect food to the human body and thus are trained to bite. Horses do not have to stalk their food so they do not consider it a reward. Your horse will be much better off if you do not feed from your hand. Read up on better ways to congratulate your horse.

[@lucasa1849]

@@PurpleCowboyTV are you familliar with positive reinforcement trainers? And that their horses do not bite and are willing to do about anything that is asked of them? They also definitely consider food a reward. That’s why they’re willing to do so much for it. And horses are foragers so it makes sense to get small amounts of food often rather then one or two big meals a day. You can definitely train a horse to bite by reinforcing that behaviour. But good +R trainers know way better than that. They reward calm and polite behaviour.

[@Jsa460]

Yes this is how I trained mine. Any sign of relaxation or dropping the head slightly I allowed him to drop down a pace and he picked it up very quickly. Works very well on horses that would like to rest (which is a lot of them.) I actually taught it back to front. Lunging relaxation first, dropping head with a hand on the poll second. (BTW I also sometimes train with food rewards as well, and if they come out my very food motivated gelding starts trying extra hard to do what I'm asking. Used properly they can be very effective and don't make nippy horses. It's only if you don't know what you're doing and reward nippy or pushy behaviour with treats, that's what causes horses to bite. It's the trainer rather than the method at fault in the majority of cases.)

[@katanical8731]

I would love to see a progression of this video, showing the introduction of true collection, and how to teach it to the horse. This video was immensely helpful! But I'd love to know where to go from here.

[@TheWillingEquine]

Katanical check out ArttoRide on KZbin, they have a lot of videos and show the progression more than I can at the moment. Their focus is on this specific topic so they will have a lot more examples and help for you :)

[@katanical8731]

Thank you, Will from ArttoRide is one of my favourite trainers! I found your video really helpful

[@anastazjax9480]

what do you think about making a video bout collection? how to introduce it in a right way?

[@gerrycoleman7290]

There is a horse here that at times trots long and very low. Very relaxed. Head down perpendicular to the ground only a few inches above the ground. His forward movement causes the relaxed head to wobble. It is beautiful. He does this just slightly ahead of the also trotting high horse that he is trying to impress (I think). Your thought please on what you think this gate means. What is he trying to communicate to the high horse? Thanks

[@philvinet4145]

THIS.....THIS is correct.....well done

[@kincsototbagi4705]

Your training is such a pleasure to watch! 😍 My question is: how do you ask them to move while maintaining long and low? 🥰

[@TheWillingEquine]

I first taught that, then added the long and low. They have cues for walk, trot, and canter. In this video it's a combination of negative reinforcement and positive reinforcement. I typically train with much more positive reinforcement these days and don't "combine" like in this video, but this is still a great start!

[@kaylarae1362]

This video is amazing! Definitely will do this with my girl during the summer. She is super green so my main priority is to get her comfortable under saddle before doing the serious work lol

[@SoTheAdventure]

This was super helpful for me! Thank you so much for the info

[@natalya402]

In my education journey to understand true horse biomechanics I came across the long and low method to build proper back muscles. But a study by Equitopia shows that in the long and low posture the splenius muscle in the neck is being stretched but not worked at all, but it shows activity when the horse is in the forward down posture, in which their neck is about in line with the withers with the nose in front of the vertical. Forward down is considered the real balanced posture, because the horse is able to lift the back and engage the hindquarters without falling onto the forehand, which is a biomechanical inevitability in the long and low position. Long and low is good for stretching the topline, but it is not considered balanced. Forward down is supposedly much better for building topline and developing the muscles involved with collection. Im not attacking The Willing Equine in any way, and teaching your horse long and low can be very useful, and she does it in a very kind and efficient way. This is the information I have found and welcome discussion or other evidence, Im learning too and am by no means an expert.

[@TheWillingEquine]

I appreciate your respectful and educated comment. I actually agree. I made this video what seems like an eternity ago and want to update it, but haven't had the time. Plus, it's still helping people so I've left it up. But I do agree that forward down is more what I work to achieve these days, and beyond that I'm looking for specific muscle engagement and other specific muscles to disengage. I also don't use the chambon or side reins anymore or whips. Constantly learning and updating! 👍

[@olivianoone7588]

Thank you for creating such a detailed and informative video!

[@chelseakitchin3582]

I know this video is v old but i find it sooo interesting and just amazing and clear and helpful ah😍 could u go about teaching “on the bit” in a similar way to this?

[@heathernield7483]

Thank you SO much for making this tutorial!!

[@ksviderskays6938]

What is your cue for them to drop their head? Especially on the lunge line without a target

[@bigheartracingstables1158]

Thanks for the great video… Very enlightening especially the links you included about the background and basis/reasons for doing this. Would the same apply for thoroughbred racehorses? I have two racehorses taking a year off and wondered about their backs and spinal processes and wondered if I should be doing this during their off year. How long before I might see improvements? I don’t have two years.

[@blazequestrian]

Hello! I know this video was made 7 years ago and that you probably won't see this, but what kind of treats do you use for the reward? This was a very helpful video, thank you!

[@TheWillingEquine]

I mostly use hay pellets! I actually have a video on here about the food I train with I believe . If I don’t I’m going to have to work on that 😉 but also the video I’m about to publish talks about this some too

[@blazequestrian]

@@TheWillingEquine Thank you!

[@saspinks3001]

Not really sure why some folks think head low is an unnatural position for horses. My horses are out 24/7; 95% of the time that they are out is spent grazing and they must be of the opinion it's easiest to graze when their mouths are at ground level because that's where their heads always are. I see them walk all the time with heads at ground level as they mosey along munching all the way. And yes, their heads are usually forward of the vertical unless they think they missed a blade....

[@jrodney65]

Love this video I've watched it loads of times! What I cant figure out is when we get to lungeing, how do i ask her to put her hair down?

[@TheWillingEquine]

You're going to shape it. So any time her head goes slightly down click. then start waiting for her to drop it a little lower or hold it a little longer. Pretty soon it'll be automatic. It's not something I put on cue. It's their auto position and then I teach bringing up the head later and put that on cue

[@jrodney65]

Oh boy...I'm so sorry. I have been doing this with mare for a week. At the standstill with halter. I tried just having her walk around me on a lead line, nice and close. She doesnt understand. I think I am rushing her and potentially skipping steps. How long should it take to get her putting her head down and keeping it down?😁

[@garlanddavis7099]

Love this horse!

[@serafinatruth4029]

What incredible patience How can I ever get so far with my cob?

[@TheWillingEquine]

Absolutely!

[@Jsa460]

What's with all the people criticising you for using food rewards? Food rewards are absolutely fine if given properly. They don't encourage biting or anything else negative if the horse knows the treats are given on your terms, not theirs. I've used food rewards when I need a bit of extra positive reinforcement on many horses, and they know full well they're not allowed to mob me for treats (if they try, they don't get them so that stops really quickly because it doesn't work) and so stays polite even if I have them in my hand or pocket. If I was poor at using treats and let them get pushy and grabby about them and then rewarded with a treat anyway, then of course you'll have a horse you're training to be "badly" behaved. It's all about timing and boundaries, if you can't get that right, that's a reflections on the way you train, not using treats itself.

[@keritucker3876]

Thank you for the video, I have yet to find a detailed video like this one😃

[@AlexisCeVon]

Keri Tucker anjdjeir. B hhhyduhrfugryruywueuuru up for y you are yzbagsggzgqgdghgdyq ystaydyvyududduejqhdgasghdyeyedyduywyyshzgwgwgdbgzhhsywyquhqjjugqgg

[@johanna7637]

Your videos are really helpful and a great motivation! (:

[@OliveDeuce]

Totally in love with that dun horse, omg, can I have him?

[@thepaintedpony1475]

Can you tell us the aids our hands and legs/body should be doing to achieve this? Thanks

[@kimberwoodson4483]

I'm thinking of using this to help my horse with her free walk, but how do I differentiate cuing for the give with the reins vs for her to drop her head with the reins

[@emilyjohnson8960]

I may have missed it, but what was your cue for them to lower their head? A tug or two on the reins? Or are you training them to keep their head low all the time?

[@TheWillingEquine]

They are trained to seek to the end of the rein length. So if it's long, they stretch down into it. If it's shorter they come up higher

[@TheWillingEquine]

Definitely no tugging :)

[@LindsaySwain]

As you progress how do you 'ask for more and more' from behind?

[@TheWillingEquine]

When training with clicker training / R+ (or even with R- / pressure and release) the timing of the reinforcement (the click & food, or the release of pressure) is what encourages more of what came right before. So when there is a moment where the horse is moving a bit more forward, release (downward transition, take a break, etc) and/or click and feed! The horse will start to learn what is getting reinforced and offering more of that for longer periods of time. Remember to build very gradually, don’t rush it or ask for too much too soon. It can take months or longer.

[@jrodney65]

Okay so my horse is very clever and eager at the stand still but not so much when we start to walk. Am I thinking this is going to happen quicker then reality? We've been doing this for a week, just at the standstill with a halter. I think your video is amazing and I want to help get her more relaxed and healthy in her body.

[@TheWillingEquine]

I'm unclear as to if your comment was a question or ...? Sorry 😅

[@libbyterrell3476]

Thank you for this video! I have started working on clicker training with my horse and he really responds to it! I was wondering how long it takes for you on average for each step. Do you work on each step for around a week and then move on to the next step? Or does it usually take longer?

[@TheWillingEquine]

Libby Terrell it really depends on the horse and your consistency. I wish I could offer you a more definitive timeline for each step but there really isn't one. I do find teaching long and low on the lunge line progresses very quickly and so does lowering the head to poll pressure but flexion and in-hand work can take some horses a long time especially if you are undoing previous training. Just let your horse dictate how quickly he/she's ready for the next step . What you'll be looking for is consistently correct responses and extended duration before adding difficulty or moving on to the next step. Some steps will overlap too, like in-hand work and lunging . :)

[@libbyterrell3476]

Thank you so much!!

[@jrodney65]

I'm so sorry for being such a pain in the butt. Lol I'm just going to take more time. I do love your video!!

[@ccxlelouchforever]

Is it possible for a gaited horse, let's say a Tennessee walker... to learn to get long and low while racking instead of trotting? Or are they bred to to keep their heads high and carry a hollow frame, and this is not fixable?

[@TheWillingEquine]

heichouchoo I'm so sorry I missed this! Because there is no suspension during gaited paces long and low will not benefit the horse in the same way as in the trot. There will be no elevation of the back. HOWEVER, a lower head simulated relaxation in the horse and is mentally extremely beneficial. Hope this helps :)

[@TheWillingEquine]

heichouchoo also, you can teach a gaited horse to trot and then use long and low to help correct the back use.

[@ccxlelouchforever]

Thank you!

[@chaselynladd4509]

I would love to start integrating this. However I have two questions! First, do you think it would be confusing to start adding this in while also riding a horse who’s already trained under saddle? Second, is this very difficult to do without treats? I would like to stick to negative reinforcement but it seems you do very well with positive.

[@TheWillingEquine]

Chaselyn Ladd if you check out ArttoRide on KZbin you can see lots of examples of long and low training using traditional methods. I find using positive reinforcement shortens the time it takes to teach long and low by a significant amount, and I find horses are more consistent when they understand things clearly (which clicker training allows for). But yes, it can be done without! As for your other question, almost if my horses were “trained” under saddle without positive reinforcement before I got them and have adapted to working under saddle with positive reinforcement really well! Or, you could just start with positive reinforcement from the ground and later when you feel comfortable integrating it into your riding that’s great too! You don’t have to make a full “switch” to all positive reinforcement.. you do however need to be careful trying to use them at the same time. Hope this helps!

[@chaselynladd4509]

Thank you!

[@michellew9735]

How do you ask for long and low while lunging? Or is it just something that's carried over from the training hand standing and walking beside you?

[@TheWillingEquine]

At about 8:30 I explain how you'll shape the long and low on the lunge line the same way as you do with the in-hand work or standing work. It does carry over somewhat, as the horse will have developed a habit of moving forward in a longer position or offering the long and low more often, but you'll have to reinforce this behavior in the same way you trained long and low in hand etc if you're free shaping the behavior like I prefer to do. Or later down the video I talk about the chambon and how it can help

[@ASMRFarmNicky]

I'm a little confused about the lunging part. How do you cue the head down on the lunge line? Do you pull the head slightly towards you?

[@TheWillingEquine]

Nicky W. I don't cue it at all, I gradually shape it. As the horse is going around if they drop their head even slightly I click/reward. Gradually over time I wait for them to lower their head even further before I click/reward, and then I start waiting for them to keep it lower for longer before click/reward... then a little longer.. then a little more.. and before you know if they are long and low the whole lunging session. They just know that lunging = long and low. Recently though we've been starting to ask for more collection , which equals lifting the front end and that brings up the head slightly when correctly obtained, and this I put on cue through a series of actions .. but that's for another video. Long and low comes first and needs to be the "neutral state" no matter what stage of training you're in. ... does this make sense?

[@melissajowarfield]

where can you get the target you are using?

[@TheWillingEquine]

If you want to email me I can sell you one. But otherwise it's just an extending flag pole from Amazon with a stress squeeze ball on the end.

[@theresapercy8755]

what do you use for treats?

[@TheWillingEquine]

Hay pellets. Timothy and alfalfa

[@27jspencer]

When teaching them to drop their heads, do you use a verbal cue?

[@TheWillingEquine]

Judith Spencer I don’t, since I want them to lunge Long and low every time the whole time. But you can definitely put it on cue if you would like. When I ride the rein length is the cue, they stretch to the length of the reins :)

[@destinationaddictionsamsar7894]

I'd love to see this done on a saddlebred 😊

[@macaylalewis4065]

you just do the exact same thing😂

[@TheWillingEquine]

It's definitely been done before! On a page called Art2Ride they have a few videos with saddlebreds!

[@gerrycoleman7290]

What does it mean when a horse does this naturally? I am not referring to snaking. I am not referring to evaluating the ground just prior to rolling.

[@TheWillingEquine]

Could be trained in the past, conformation, and other things. The important part is to watch the back, core, and hind end. Not so much the head and neck. A lot of horses will keep their head low but their back legs trail out behind and they are not engaged. That's not the same

[@DARKhorses73]

Lovely video.

[@abbymombourquette9075]

River is so small in this video ❤️🥰

[@nessa9732]

Omg tiny baby River😍😍😍 I only know her from Instagram and damn she grew up😎

[@TheWillingEquine]

That she has!!

[@rustypotatos]

Hahaha bloooood red in the beginning intro !!!!!!!

[@TheWillingEquine]

?

[@rustypotatos]

@@TheWillingEquine the song you have for the intro is called blood red by feedme

[@horsemanhorseman8913]

where is your video showing how the progression goes to a Fully Ressambled canter using this method of training?

[@TheWillingEquine]

Keith Bartlam it doesn't, as explained in the video this is the beginning step. This is not a video about collection , it's a video about teaching long and low. :) i mention at the end from "here" you begin to develop collection....

[@khaulein]

Keith Bartlam - long and low is a gymnastic exercise for developing young horses (and rehabbing badly trained ones) who don't yet know how to engage their abdominals. From arttoride.com: "[Long and low] is the beginning of the gymnastically improving the horses gaits and way of going. Our FEI horses that have advanced enough that they don’ t need the stretching as a gymnastic exercise as much as a release for the muscles that may become fatigued from carrying themselves in collection and also as a reward for a job …" I'm curious myself about how much long and low should be done, exactly. I don't think it can be harmful so long as the horse is engaged behind and not just barely moving with it's head on the ground. But I'm not sure about always ,only working a young horse like this. It's interesting to see the positive training techniques used to do this here! - very innovative. Thank you

[@philvinet4145]

a competent trainer understands why side reins do not need to be used

[@TheWillingEquine]

I agree. I have an article all about them on my website. If I use them, which it's been forever and a day since I have, it's differently than how they are intended to be used. I put them on the very last hole and it's to teach the horse how to find the contact. Meaning they lower their head to the end of the side reins then click/reinforcement. It's not to create a head set or a frame or anything like that. I only use them a few times for this purpose and then never again!

[@horsemanhorseman8913]

I don't disagree that the "grazing" posture is relaxing. Neck low adrenaline low, Neck High Adrenaline High. The "trick" is to teach the horse that it is possible to have a high neck with Ramener and STILL have low adrenalin. Riding a horse for more than a few strides Long and Low (to allow MENTAL relaxation) is useful, but to do 20 mins or so in this posture is on tbe forehand, and therefore does nothing to foster Ressamble.

[@bqualitysnake6549]

I agree, most of this is jus probably preparing the horse to start working rounder so it can start to develop a stronger topline so it in the end can work round. Having an aid for making the ohrse drop it's head is also useful if a horse is spooky

[@hyunjini7586]

I know this is an old comment but that is very incorrect. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. Collection is NOT a trick first of all. Of course the horse will be on the forehand when they are in the stretch, but they will be more on the forehand with their head up and their back hollow. Stretching releases endorphins, relaxes them, allows them to swing and engage their back, along with all the other good things. Once they are strong enough, thats when you can begin to bring their poll up as long as they are strong enough to keep their back up. After a couple years of building their toppling you can start to bring them into collection which will lift them off the forehand. Otherwise your just forcing them into a fake frame. Dr. Gerd Hueschmann is a great vet that has a few books explaining horse biomechanics. And btw, the adrenaline thing? That has nothing to do with it.

[@shaniwilkins6199]

if anything, long and low would be for western pleasure and huntseat wouldn't it?

[@TheWillingEquine]

You're likely thinking of just lowering the head. Long and low is apart of the development of collection because it engages the hind end, core, and back = necessary prerequisites to collection.

[@Emmmm8134]

Nope, it's for ALL horses.

[@normandyequine4814]

I have one question...why? Why teach a horse to put more weight on the forelimbs? Why teach a horse to pitch forward when most equestrian endeavors require him to lift his forehand up? Like jumping for example. Long and low is not good for horses. I worked seven years in a huge equine hospital as their rehab specialist...more injuries were caused by this trend than I care to remember. This is NOT the way to develop an equine athlete.

[@TheWillingEquine]

A couple of thoughts. 1. Too many people believe collection comes from lifting the head. This is not the case. 2. Forward down/long and low is not the same thing as “round and deep” or forcing the head down or going with the nose down without core and hind end engagement. How it’s done is important. At first yes there’s more weight on the forehand but they are not supposed to stay here for long, it’s only about getting that initial engagement of the core and hind end with the topline and neck relaxed, then starting to show them how to keep the hind end and core engaged while the forehand comes up too. 3. This is an older video that I’ve chosen to keep available because it’s a good alternative for people who were thinking about using auxiliary aids or gadgets (like the Pessoa system) to achieve “collection” , but I do now recognize that there’s “too much” long and low and the science as updated as well since this video. I now prefer to encourage forward/down and paying more attention to balance and core/hind end engagement rather than the head just being down. I plan on updating the video in the near future but haven’t had time yet. In the meantime I’ve updated the description to reflect that this is an older video with older information. Hope this helps clarify :)

[@tiajewels2820]

WHY do you want their heads so low almost dragging on the ground?

[@princessalliecat8]

Tia Jewels one reason is because you can’t expect a horse to collect if they don’t know how to stretch first.

[@ambersteinmann7616]

Also it dont hurt to practice lower then you show. That way when in the show pen they have a little "wiggle" room.

[@Emmmm8134]

Because it helps the horse to stretch and use the proper muscles.

[@gerrymcferret]

I have never trained my horse to be long and low. She does it naturally when relaxed.

[@TheWillingEquine]

That's great to hear! Just remember that it's not just head lowering, but the hind end tracking up. When horses tire or relax they don't automatically track up from behind as that takes a lot of muscle.

[@horsemanhorseman8913]

Trouble is horses top line does not stretch when the neck is dropped down. It's only the neck unfurled putting more weight over the front.end. Yes it allows the hind end to STEP THROUGH FURTHER but does not tilt the pelvis under. That's the job of Ranvers and Travers in Counted Walk .

[@ceilidheyford5744]

Keith Bartlam I agree, BUT if the horse learns to stretch his neck out and take bigger steps, he will too learn how to get his quarters underneath him self, and lift his back which DOES stretch and develope the Topline. He also will take bigger steps because because he is getting his quarters under

[@keithbartlam4733]

@@ceilidheyford5744 WRONG...yes .his Legs will be thrown further under the body with a lowered neck into the grazing posture, but is COMPLETELY different from the quarters being under/engaged. Th Posture whereby the Pelvis is Tucked under is a necessity of Rassamble and will never happen if you follow this video!.

[@mayac218]

Keith Bartlam that isn't true that it will never happen because I've seen the horses in this video and how they are working currently in recent videos. This was one of the first steps to teach the horse the beginning stages of collection. Headset on its own doesn't create collection and I highly doubt it brings the weight onto the front end if they are trained to correctly use their bodies.

[@hyunjini7586]

No, actually the pelvis tilts after years of training. And actually, there are studies that PROVE the stretch lifts the back and stretches the whole topline. The first step of collection is to teach the (correct) stretch. Please get some information. Dr. Gerd Hueschmann has some great books explaining horse biomechanics.

[@shaniwilkins6199]

Lol. I can't use positive reinforcement because my horse gets greedy and wont pay attention to anything but the treat. He literally pinned my foot down with his hoof and almost ran me over to get his food yesterday.

[@TheWillingEquine]

You can use positive reinforcement with every horse. You just need to learn how to use it safely and teach your horse the necessary behaviors. :)

[@destinationaddictionsamsar7894]

@Shani Wilkins Look into Warwickshillers videos 😉 he doesn't use positive reinforcement but his training is very kind. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hImkpGSOisZ0nc0

[@PurpleCowboyTV]

Feeding the horse from the hand is the third worse piece of horsemanship on earth. Horses do not regard food from the hand as reward, but connect food to the human body and thus are trained to bite. Horses do not have to stalk their food so they do not consider it a reward. Your horse will be much better off if you do not feed from your hand. Read up on better ways to congratulate your horse.

[@TheWillingEquine]

@@PurpleCowboyTV as someone who specializes in equine behavior modification, problem behaviors, rehabilitation, etc I entirely disagree and so does the science. Feeding by hand does not teach biting, poor training or a lack of understanding of equine behavior causes biting.

[@destinationaddictionsamsar7894]

@@PurpleCowboyTV you're wrong about that😂 it is true horses can get rewarded from pressure and release as you're giving something they value but horses also value food more than release of pressure. And will offer more to you for the reward of food than for the reward of release. (All horses trained in R+ methods are never food beggars nor nippers because they're taught food manners) those who use R+ training are still using body language in their training but they're not punishing their horses. That's why every scientist recommends to use R+ training methods as they work more effectively and faster than punishment based training methods that often leave sociological effects on the animals.

[@lindabrown1576]

the need to lift and shift to their hind quarters not be omre on the front end

[@TheWillingEquine]

Linda Brown that comes with time. You can't just make them rock back, they first need to stretch and then they begin to learn to lift the shoulders while keeping the back relaxed and then collection can begin.. where they will rock their weight back and lift the front end. This is the step "before" you can begin developing collection. If you start asking for collection before developing the back the back will hollow and drop, the head will lift, and the hind end will not come through all the way.

[@shirleystephenson8687]

Chamboo

[@horsemanhorseman8913]

10 percent or there abouts during a riding session long low and OUT is needed NOT months and years as art2ride suggest on the forehand

[@TheWillingEquine]

Keith Bartlam I think you're mistaking "on the forehand" and "stretching/long and low". Sure, sometimes they go hand in hand in a very green horse or when a horse isn't being trained correctly, but the goal is not for them to stay there. As soon as the horse has confirmed ability to maintain long and low you then begin adding greater impulsion and then add in lateral work and so on to begin lifting the shoulders and developing self carriage. Long and low is not the "end goal" but the beginning and later on it's the "return to" place for rest. Also, if you check out my Instagram page @thewillingequine I have multiple examples of horses before and after training long and low (for many months) and you can visibly see the improvement in self carriage, including the beginning of them lifting their front end and using their hind end to carry greater weight. It's obviously not "collection", but without the ability to stretch and without the impulsion there can be no true collection. Like we've both said, it's not where the horse stays, it's just the beginning. :)

[@hyunjini7586]

Art2Ride does not recommend months and years of stretch. As soon as the horse is able to stretch all the way down, he starts to see if they are strong enough to come up. If the horse has years of incorrect riding from people like you, it will obviously take longer to heal their body. And btw, stretching does not "put" them on the forehand. Try blocking of the head and watch how beautifully uphill Legolas is, even in the stretch. Of course they will be more on the forehand in the stretch, but they will be more on the forehand if their head is up and hollow. You can pull a horse into collection.

[@gerrycoleman7290]

Training with treats. That is a cheat.

[@chrishays2201]

Peanut pushers at their best. Show me where in natural movement that you see a horse do this? Theirs over flex both ways.

[@Emmmm8134]

This is not peanut pushing. This is EXTREMELY beneficial for horses and their backs.

[@ebonypegasus9864]

I find clickers annoying and neurotic... and unnatural. Prefer voice.

[@lindabrown1576]

your horse has a hunters bump ffs

[@TheWillingEquine]

Which horse?

[@Pistolxvixen]

Linda Brown probably why she’s doing these Exercises😉

[@petrairene]

Great, extreme peanut rolling advertisement, forced onto a horse with a chambon, getting them on the forehand.... The riding bit is pretty useless too. Every time the horse might start to seek contact or do something good it's thrown out of it by stopping and then giving it treats. Totally useless....

[@TheWillingEquine]

petrairene of course you’re welcome to your opinion but I highly recommend educating yourself on how positive reinforcement training works and how long and low works before commenting . If you’d like I can help refer you to some useful articles and videos explaining further. 👍🏻

[@lebonnie1212]

The Willing Equine Wow. Your really skilled at dealing with ignorant people. I’ve learned more from your video on how to respond to idiots than anything else. I train long and low the same way you do and it is the best way to start that I know of. Keep that clicker and treats. You’re a professionalism is inspiring.

[@bethzambone806]

Actually, this doesn't teach them to be on the forehand. If your horse is collected correctly the weight distributes to the weight to the hind end which frees the shoulders to allow the horse to stretch their neck.

[@horsemanhorseman8913]

This is ABSOLUTE nonsense. It does NOT stretch anything other than the elevating neck muscles, which will do NOTHING to teach Ressamble

[@TheWillingEquine]

Keith Bartlam thank you for your opinion. However, my research proves otherwise. Relaxation and stretching must come before true collection can begin. Long and low will not create collection or self carriage, but it's a building block before you can ask for collection. If your horse can't stretch and relax the topline it won't be able to strengthen it

[@goettling]

The word is "rassemble", lets just call it collection and this video is not about that

[@fauxgrace]

Ahh, no.

[@ellentraquair3974]

Ahh, yes

[@Emmmm8134]

Ugh yesss ❤️❤️

[@cookflycampfish7899]

Stop feeding him! He is doing only what you want because of food. Have him do what you want him to do because he wants to do it! Your horse is not a circus animal. Or is he?

[@TheWillingEquine]

CampsWithHorses my horse chooses to work for a reward rather than to avoid a consequence, there's nothing wrong with that. I choose to use positive reinforcement versus pressure and punishment based methods that are commonly used. Every type of horse training falls within the four quadrants of operant conditioning... positive reinforcement, positive punishment, negative reinforcement, and negative punishment. Positive reinforcement (which can, and often does involve food.. but doesn't have to) is the ONLY one that allows the horse to choose to work for something it desires rather than working to avoid something is dislikes. Horse training and how it works is so often misunderstood .... Circus animals are no different than any other animal on the planet, they are trained using the same methods every other horse is trained with. Whether you're training a horse to ride under saddle, jump over an obstacle, or stand on a platform it's all truly just conditioned responses trained by using one of the four quadrants. It's all in one way or another a "trick" at the end of the day. I just choose to train my horse's "tricks" with positive reinforcement, which is scientifically proven to be the most effective motivation for learning in both humans and animals.

[@cookflycampfish7899]

OK. So now that everyone knows from your reply, you are training circus animals. Good luck!

[@TheWillingEquine]

CampsWithHorses if by circus animal you mean a well trained performance horse that competes in popular FEI, APHA, and AQHA recognized disciplines like dressage, western dressage, ranch riding, extreme trail riding, and so on.. then yes, I train circus animals.

[@KarrooBossie]

My personal experience with +R is that the horse anticipate their work eagerly and respond enthusiastically. My horse is turned out daily in a 4 hectare area. When I'm with her in the paddock I can ask her to perform a trick at liberty and she would do it out of free will. She has the option to ignore me and run off and do whatever she wants but because I train her with +R she loves to do something and be rewarded with a treat. Studies have shown that although most horses, regardless of training method, learn the task within the required time frame, positively reinforced horses generally learn the tasks more quickly, retain the learned tasks longer, experience less stress and react to humans more positively.

[@drorydressage]

CampsWithHorses Are you somehow under the illusion you do NOT teach tricks to your horse ?? Time to wake up, dude. Even the basics like accepting a saddle and rider are learned tricks.

[@gerrycoleman7290]

First of all, training with treats is a poor idea for many reasons. One of which is, you are training your horse that you are not the leader of the 'herd'. Train without treats, then you have accomplished something significant. Secondly, training the horse to keep his head in an unnatural position is another poor idea.

[@TheWillingEquine]

You keep watching my videos and commenting on them ... When clearly you disagree and that upsets you. If you don't agree that's fine, but perhaps you shouldn't watch and comment anymore.

[@gerrycoleman7290]

@@TheWillingEquine It says 'add a public comment'. So, I do so.

[@TheWillingEquine]

You're absolutely more than welcome to comment. It was just a suggestion as clearly you do not agree with what I do so why put yourself through watching my material and commenting?

[@gerrycoleman7290]

@@TheWillingEquine Because a differing opinion just might have merit an be worthy of consideration. It could lead to improved horsemanship.

[@TheWillingEquine]

I have no problem with different opinions or comments about different opinions, it just seems odd that you can clearly see I don't train that way and we've already discussed how I train and why I do it and you continue to comment the same comments on quite a few of my videos . I don't go on to other trainers videos and comment repeatedly that they should work with food and do clicker training... I might have a productive and polite conversation with them on one video or in private but continuing to comment on many or all of their videos after that would just be me trolling and looking to start something. I'd be happy to send you information on Clicker training, positive reinforcement, current scientifically founded evidence that the dominance and leadership theories do not apply in horse training, and how working with food or scratches or any other kind of positive reinfocer is not bribery or dangerous or poor Horsemanship but just a different kind of horsemanship based on learning theory and modern research.

[@magdalenakumor3699]

stop feeding

[@TheWillingEquine]

Magdalena Kumor why?

[@PurpleCowboyTV]

Feeding the horse from the hand is the third worse piece of horsemanship on earth. Horses do not regard food from the hand as reward, but connect food to the human body and thus are trained to bite. Horses do not have to stalk their food so they do not consider it a reward. Your horse will be much better off if you do not feed from your hand. Read up on better ways to congratulate your horse.

[@PurpleCowboyTV]

just a few quote from people that have trained horses and studied equine behavior from before either of us were born: “..no blade of grass has ever run from a horse and food is not a reward like it is for a dog or a cat. Treats given from the human body can turn a gentle horse into a biter. If you insist on feeding treats, toss them in a feed bucket rather than feed from the hand, so your horse is not blamed for poor training. Rewards for a horse come in the form of release of pressure. Rest and relaxation, a cessation of work, is a greater reward than treats. While horses won’t refuse treats, these are not as comforting for them as a good rub.” -Debbie Roberts Loucks “When one understands the flight animal fully, it is apparent that they are usually grazers. They eat grass. All predators must stalk their food and use skills to capture it. That becomes their trophy. To a horse, food is not reward. No blade of grass has ever run from a horse. I believe that the person who feeds the horse from the hand will create a ‘biter.’” “There are professionals who use food to train their horses. This activity has been going on for hundreds of years and it is quite amazing to me that a knowledgeable professional will do this. I do not use food as a reward and it is a practice I would not teach my students. I feel certain that professionals trained in this art can accomplish their work without the side effects that the untrained person experiences. Unless you are a professional who is trained to do this, do not train horses by feeding them from the hand. If you have treats, put them in his feed tub and let him find them.” -Monty Roberts (85 years old and at least 70+ years of experience in horses, horse training as well as equine behavior). Here is a good article that includes two professional clicker trainers that visited his farm: montyroberts.com/monty-on-clicker-training-for-horses/ a very good read 👍🏽 I’m all for different techniques and I myself always think that everyone should have an open mind. I’m sorry if my comment seemed a bit too straightforward and rude. That was not my intension. I apologize. But I have also been around horses and worked with them for a few decades now and I have used his methods for about half of the time. Previously I also hand feed treats while training and noticed that with his methods, the training is faster, more profitable and a horse that wants to perform well just because, instead of treats has a much higher success. But I must say, I did pick up a few things from your video that I will use in my training although without the treats 😅. Thanks anyway and all the best to you! "Learning should be an ever-changing and never-ending process. To keep an open mind is essential."-Monty Roberts.

[@PurpleCowboyTV]

Also I wanted to add that I use various combinations of training methods, from various trainers depending what the horse needs. Mostly the basics are from Monty’s methods but also from other trainers. All are non-violent, pressure-release methods and with a willing horse, never forcing the horse. 😊

[@ellentraquair3974]

@@PurpleCowboyTV hi I am not the biggest fan of Monty Roberts (can link a podcast that discusses the topic extremely in depth if you would like), As I'm sure you're aware any interaction with horses that takes place uses operant conditioning. The four quadrants of operant conditioning are positive reinforcement positive punishment negative punishment and negative reinforcement. Positive reinforcement is the only one that allows the horse to have a choice whether to participate in the learning, all of the others feature the horse trying to escape or avoid a consequence. (By the way it must be said that I'm using voice to text speech so I'm sorry as there's not much punctuation.) Positive reinforcement is used a lot and is growing in popularity, if it really made the horse bite I don't think this would happening. people literally around the globe use + r. When I got my horse he used to bite me when I had food and he used to push in to me and he wasn't aware of my personal space and my personal bubble but since discovering positive reinforcement that is all completely and utterly stopped he does not bite me anymore he does not come in to my space anymore with his head he is very very polite on the ground now. This is because I made it reinforcing for him to be out of my space so when his head is in between his shoulders in the centre of his chest and his head is straight in front of him and he is relaxed he gets a click and a treat. it must be made clear that this does not happen every time his head is in the centre of his chest but this is how I taught it originally. He now knows that it is more reinforcing for him to be out of my space with his head in the centre of his chest than to be in my pocket or biting my hand. I also think it must be said that I would rather do a longer process that meant the horse enjoyed it more. You mentioned in your comment that you think Monty Roberts methods are faster, quicker, more effective etc but I believe that when positive reinforcement is done correctly it can be very quick and effective. I can give you a link to a very fascinating video that's about an hour long but is extremely interesting and I really recommend that you watch it and I have a Podcast episode which is separated long but it's all about dominance theory and Monty Roberts and join up and why that perhaps isn't the best method and there is also a whole website all about positive reinforcement and it gives lots of sources to read about and why +r is good idea and why it's the most enjoyable and humane and scientifically researched way to train a horse. Don't get me wrong this isn't me saying the positive reinforcement is the only way to train a horse I myself use admixture of positive reinforcement and non escalating negative reinforcement but positive reinforcement is a very useful tool. Like I say I'm sorry if there is any typos in this I have done this pretty much completely with voice to text.

[@Emmmm8134]

It's not really. You just don't understand it.

[@PurpleCowboyTV]

​@@ellentraquair3974 Thank you for your extensive answer. People often believe that the only +R is treats or food rewards. I use touch, like a rub (not an "olympic slap", no horse likes the slaps that most people use!). I don't want to sound negative / judging, but it seems that you haven't actually participated in a clinic where you would be taught by Monty or a MRCI. I always say that people shouldn't assume if they don't know all the facts. I've been to Flag is up Farms in Solvang, CA and met Mr. Roberts. I've sat next to him almost daily for 22 days and followed him closely while working horses. He might not believe in food or treats to be a good thing especially when given from the hand of a human, but he does believe strongly in positive reinforcement! So for clarification purposes: "Positive Reinforcement, This is what commonly termed as a reward. Something pleasant is added with the intention of encouraging a behavior. A foal looking for milk for the first time will instinctively nose about in dark corners. When he finds the teat he is rewarded by the milk (positive); next time he is likely to find the teat faster (reinforcement). In training, food is often used as a positive reinforcer. Monty uses a rub on the head, and rest. If these are given immediately following a behavior, the horse will make a pleasant association with that behavior and will be more likely to do it again. There are four consequences that can alter behavior: positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment and negative punishment. The important thing to remember when thinking about this type of learning is that the words positive and negative do not imply a value judgment, they do not mean good and bad. Neither do the words reinforcement and punishment. Positive means to add something + Negative means to take something away - Reinforcement is anything which increases the likelihood of a behavior happening again. It is something pleasant is added to encourage behavior."