THEY DELETED THIS TANK BECAUSE HESH IS SO BAD - M728 CEV in War Thunder

GET THE OBJECT HERE: www.makeship.com/products/obj...
HESH in War Thunder is a good meme. The problem is, it's just not a good shell at all! Even the mighty FV4005 can suffer from inconsistency regardless of its HUGE high explosive mass. But when it comes to the M728 CEV in War Thunder with it's 165mm cannon that fires a DEMOLITION CHARGE that has 23kg of TNT, there's a problem.
That problem is that despite having more than double the HE of every 155mm HE cannon in the game, it just doesn't have anywhere near the same effect. Today, we play the a premium so bad... Gaijin had to remove it!
It's just a shame, because it's not a bad tank... it just does awful damage for its projectile speed and reload time.
MAKE HESH GREAT AGAIN!
----SUPPORT ME----
Buy My Decal: store.gaijin.net/catalog.php?...
Merch: oddbawz-shop.fourthwall.com/e...
Patreon: / oddbawz
Discord: / discord
----SOCIALS----
Instagram: / oddbawz
Twitter: / oddbawz
Business Email: [e-mail]
Patreon: / oddbawz
Car Channel: / @bamikazegarage

[@OddBawZ]

GET YOUR GLOW IN THE DARK TANK HERE: www.makeship.com/products/object-279-gitd-plush

[@thatoneguyoo]

HI

[@indite8303]

nahh that shot at the begining

[@Iron_Blood_Enjoyer1933]

If I had the money, I would.

[@I_love_Invincible]

day 15 of asking oddbawz to play the f111-a aardvark

[@saegemh]

Is it intended, that the plushie looks like a blob fish from the front?

[@S28426]

Gaijin thought process: "If we fix HESH what would help sell this premium ... however it would also help British tanks" "We decided to delete the M728 CEV instead"

[@sethdaboss245]

couldnt of said it any better myself

[@TheAngriestGamer.]

its because they couldnt decide who they wanted to screw over more.. US or UK.. gaijin decided to do what it does best and screw over both.

[@cc-bk3tx]

If you want hesh fixed give russia hesh

[@Stalker_Monkee]

Delete tank>make britain more playable

[@kasvos9292]

@@sethdaboss245 *couldn't have

[@keith5032]

Gaijin after making it a premium pack: 🤡

[@freedeoxide5179]

Wasnt it a premium pack to begin with? Idk i may be having a mendela effect or something

[@iforgore]

​@@freedeoxide5179 No you aren't having a Mandela effect it was a premium tank in a pack to begin with

[@freedeoxide5179]

@@iforgore then i dont get The initial comment

[@Mystic-Midnight]

@@freedeoxide5179 doing clown emoji cause they sold a broken (for once in a bad way) vehicle as a $60 premium

[@thesleekgreek]

@@Mystic-Midnightyup. And I Bought it, on sale for half price at least lol.

[@loli141]

hit track: act like HE. hit armor: act like shrapnel shell gaijin: works for me :)

[@Nick-rs5if]

Mind you, this is designed by the same people who thinks- -That a clear line of sight from the mid-section of maps, and sometimes even further than that, straight into spawn-areas is a good idea. -That HE, HESH and HEAT-shells should arm on bushes, fences and twigs, randomly and without any form of consistency whatsoever. -That sometimes, trees and random props are enough to stop AP-shells. -That ATGM-launchers facing WW2 vehicles is perfectly fine and balanced. -That the auto-loader on T-series tanks should be immune to ammo racks, even though Russia's boogaloo proves otherwise. -That literally anything is a better solution to the horrendous balancing issues than BR-decompression. Top-tier should have been 12.7-13.3, around 3 years ago. -That helicopters should, on occasion, survive multiple ATGM and HE-shell hits directly, without any damage to avionics or on-board systems whatsoever. -That a single 11.7 ground vehicle should cost more in terms of RP and SL than the first 1-3 complete tiers of vehicles in the same nation. -That apparently, adding a Ground-only game mode without any aircraft is a bad idea. -That volumetrics is somehow fine without any issues and does not need to be looked into any further. -That helicopters can fly straight without a tail rotor or rudder, should it ever come to lose them. -That UAV's are a great addition to the game. -That sub-calibre munition impacts causes no internal damage whatsoever. Even though the force being imparted upon the impacted target should produce an overpressure shockwave strong enough to completely destroy the crew inside, should the shell penetrate said target. This is just off the top of my head, I could probably go on for hours just listing things that are either plain wrong, broken or otherwise dysfunctional in the game.

[@foxxowoxxowillow7855]

​@@Nick-rs5if To be fair, the WW2 vehicles that are at BR's with ATGM's are kind of hard to balance, since they usually just have too much armor to be below where they are, while at the same time being sorta bad, but at least not impossible to kill or get kills. You don't really see people saying that everything with ATGM's is necessarily meta or overpowered, either, just that these vehicles are terrible where they are. but yeah, I agree. The shell damage is absolute BS. APHE is literally the only thing that (mostly) works the way it's supposed to. I wouldn't say they suffer as much as vehicles that use APDS/APCR, but the inconsistency is definitely there for HE lobbers, too, which is what stops a lot of them from being better. Don't get me wrong, the "HESH-like effects" argument is a little overexaggerated, but I don't think half a mm of armor should be the difference as to whether or not the BT-42 can even damage M3 Stuarts.

[@wotwott2319]

​@@Nick-rs5ifforgot to add, - thinks their next entry of russian top tier tanks deserve to have correctly modelled spall liner protection, but refuses to acknowledge that all of the top tier nato tanks have spall liners that were not modelled into their models in game on the same BR.

[@jtl05]

@@wotwott2319 most NATO tanks don't have a spall liner at all instead of just missing a model of it

[@pavel5209]

@@Nick-rs5if Agreed. The only exception is Helicopters flying without tails or Tail Rotors, and that exception is only on 3 vehicles. The Ka-52 (And its predecessor the Ka-50, as well as the other product of the Kamov Design Berau: The Ka-29) has a dual rotor design. Thanks to that these helicopters are able to fly with entire tail sections missing. Even then if one of the rotors is damaged the whole helicopter falls. Everything else should be falling if the tail section is shot off or the rotor fails due to battle damage.

[@the_gearinator5797]

Honestly, the first few mins of this vid explains why I feel that deliberately not hitting tanks is sometimes a better choice than aiming at them in the Cent AVRE. Often times I've gotten used to aiming at the ground or wall next to a tank because I know it's more likely to kill than hitting the enemy straight on lmao

[@andrewpower1314]

thats exactly what i do, if i find a t95 or maus or anything that i dont think i can kill with a direct hit i always aim right below the tank and its a kill every single time, love the avre but dont know why they removed the cev and not the avre

[@corpnut2906]

I am under tanks with the AVRE and the my CEV works most of the time now if the fixed the HESH shell it wouldnt matter

[@mir2266]

@@andrewpower1314 I feel that AVRE is overall a better tank, ERA, reverse speed, survivability (although not necessarily armor), extra crew member, and no stupid lights that block your traverse when depressed; the only thing that is worse seems to be the top speed - I'm not sure how much this contributed to its sales, which I assume is why the CEV got removed, but the US also has better premiums at about the same rating (which is not necessarily true for the UK)

[@kaih7647]

With volumetric armour especially, I've just given up aiming at some vehicles entirely (mainly T-34s and KV-1s). Instead I just shoot in their general direction, hoping that at least one of the shots penetrates, unless I've got a very easy shot at a weakspot and they aren't moving.

[@Rynnakkosampyla]

So if you miss it uses the high explosive damage model, but if you hit you get a poor man's ap, but never both? That might explain why 4005 felt so disapointing to use

[@jw6337]

Typical gaijin antics of just straight up deleting perfectly feasible vehicles from the game instead of fixing fundamental issues with said game

[@VynalDerp]

"war thunder is super realistic!" war thunder realism: HESH shell has a stroke and can't decide whether it should not act like a HESH shell does, act like a HESH shell does, or be an HE shell instead

[@Stalker_Monkee]

*HESH vaporizes itself so gaijin wont waste time fixing it*

[@lukav3509]

gaijin just hates usa. they are ruzzian shills. meanwhile they keep adding russian paper tanks that only appeared one time on a paper drawing

[@zettabitepragmara4031]

I remember when this thing was first added. I was scared of it at first but the amount of times I've been shot by HESH and literally nothing happens has taught me that this thing doesn't matter, so much to the point I'd run at one knowing its fate is sealed

[@valkyyyyra]

You, when i shoot your track: 💥💥💥

[@pinguino5105]

I was so excited to get the FV4005. it's almost as underwhelming as any tank that uses an M113 chassis.

[@bodieleblanc2577]

​@@pinguino5105aim better then, any flat piece is a death sentence

[@pinguino5105]

@@bodieleblanc2577 Any tank with an HE shell as heavy as a fucking washing machine should atleast overpressure a Tiger H1 when shooting its hatch.

[@bodieleblanc2577]

@@pinguino5105 I've never had a problem of it not

[@Metalgearmadness]

The AVRE is decent but it has the same issues with HESH because Gaijin wont fix it. If I hit your tank with a 165mm hesh charge it should not exist.

[@user-tz4qy7hq6u]

the avre is a muzzle loading mortar which fires a barrel loaded with explosive so cant have hesh

[@theliteralworst9416]

@@user-tz4qy7hq6uthe only round the gun can fire is HESH, the round isn’t being sent out of the barrel at like Mach 1 it’s just being forced out by a semi powerful explosive charge

[@doctorlycloth5931]

also it aint the avre for the cent and the Churchill can both be loaded from inside the tank. @@user-tz4qy7hq6u

[@high-velocitymammal5030]

​@@user-tz4qy7hq6u U might be thinking of the Churchill with the (iirc) 290mm mortar. The other guys here are talking about the Centurion with the 165mm gun.

[@Stwatic]

@@high-velocitymammal5030 He is thinking of the churchill AVRE that used a spigot mortar, but said mortar was a 29mm spigot mortar not 290mm

[@TrueCanad1an]

That T44 deserves a medal. I wish my teammates held the line like he did and assist you in repairing when they could

[@Turner83]

Idiots always drive past and don't help repair ffs

[@Dragono_]

From my HESH experience, this is what I’ve concluded. It *does* have a mechanic for overpressure, just modelled differently (and incorrectly) in relation to standard HE. The HESH shell on this thing and the AVRE has around 25kg of TNT, so any armour plate below around 66mm (calculated via the BM-31-12 HE rocket, as that has about the same HE filler as the AVRE shell) will be penetrated via the HE overpressure - rather than HESH mechanics. This is why stuff like the Bulldog is consistently one-tapped, despite having angled armour like the Tiger II, which as we know regularly survives UFP shots. Bulldogs are penned via the UFP with HE overpressure (which is an effectively guaranteed kill) whereas the Tiger II is penned via the UFP with HESH mechanics (which won’t one-tap cause HESH is scuffed). As mentioned, anything above this armour threshold (assume about 66mm) up until the HESH’s maximum penetration of 203mm, and penetration works via HESH rather than HE. As we’ve seen, this is consistently inconsistent. This is also why track shots and shooting *near* the tank seems to reliably one tap them - you will notice that you can kill tanks the same way with traditional HE. In these cases, the HESH kills via HE overpressure. There are two ways in which (in my eyes at least) which would fix HESH: • Give HESH the ability to overpressure the same way as HE does, not just directionally. Pretty self explanatory, as Odd talked about this himself. • Model the internal ricochet of spall inside the tank for HESH. This is the more developed solution, but in real life, spall fragments heavily ricochet inside of a tank. As you can see on the kill cam, all these spall fragments simply vanish after travelling adjacent from the impact spot. If even 10% of these were modelled to ricochet, again HESH would be both more realistic and also viable, although if HESH is to ever be fixed it would most likely be via the first option. Giving the AVRE back its LRF would also be welcome.

[@Gracefulwarrior2124]

When it comes to internal spall ricochets, every shell would likely be able to recieve it because thats how every shell works in real life too. I'm not sure gaijin servers will ever be up for the amount of ricochet the spall would have, because it would only add another very heavy workload of calculation to whats already a heavy workload of existing shell mechanic calculation

[@Dragono_]

@@Gracefulwarrior2124 yeah I kinda took that into account, that’s partly why I think Gaijin would opt into the other solution. Still something to pay mind too though

[@burningsinner1132]

That's the problem - you are trying to use rockets (Which are frag-optimised) to compare it with HESH (Which is explosion-optimised). The thing that makes it through armor in case of powerful HE blasts is NOT the explosion itself, but a frag that is violently pressed into the armor. Explosion itself is too happy to be redirrected into less dense materials, that's why NERA works to begin with. Essentially, you get the same effect as HEAT, except penetrator is suboptimal since it's not really shaped by explosion.

[@patrioticshitstain]

I find it weirdly funny that APHE, a shell largely phased out some 60-70 years ago, is amazing while modern shells used on tanks still in service today are often terribly modelled and do worse than the shells they replaced IRL.

[@Gundalf550]

always remember the shell quality flowchart: Was it used by the ruzzians? shell is godlike was it not used by ruzzians? shell is bad was it even used against ruzzians? shell is like firing gummibears at the enemy, pathetic nato designs

[@Gracefulwarrior2124]

WT APHE does not mimic real life APHE tho, so its not terribly comparable lol

[@thatonelocalauthority2809]

@@Gracefulwarrior2124yea APHE is worse irl. Its spall is cone shaped, in war thunder it just arcs like a circle once it penetrates lmao.

[@Gracefulwarrior2124]

@@thatonelocalauthority2809 Yea ikr; its arguably the most unrealistic thing in war thunder. It's unlikely to be changed out with real life dynamics though, because of how big a nerf it would be. I dont even know how many players players would likely complain and likely quit the game, costing gaijin its money and likely even reputation, for what thats worth.

[@Illusionyary]

APHE used to be quite realistic back in 2015, but they changed it into OPHE and it acts like a nuclear bomb inside a tank nowadays.

[@t10god]

You know Oddbawz, the one thing I love about your videos so much, making you probably my favorite WT creator, is the amount of interactivity in your videos. You spent the first four minutes explaining everything that was about to go down, like having a direct conversation with us

[@HEEROCKSS]

And then theres me, just watching because of his accent

[@MikeKeller]

@@HEEROCKSS yeah, although sometimes I wish we had subtitles LOL

[@jaewoojung1309]

​@HEEROCfrKSS fr his voice and accent are so cute like a cutie patootie pookie bear

[@sushiman3817]

I had wanted this tank in game for years because it was the first tank I ever saw in person at my local military base. Then they released it as a premium, and it PERFORMS HORRIBLE. Such a genuine letdown

[@yagurakun2419]

Same with me and some soviets vehicles. Bought British hitting machine from 7.0, now I'm guessing how to properly use it. Btw that's why I'm watching this video...

[@g09h]

HESH is so bad a toddler punching the enemy would deal more damage

[@andrewpower1314]

i love using the avre, it can troll sometimes but more often than not its a one shot kill

[@JohnDoe-vm5rb]

If only hesh just actually worked like it's supposed to.

[@KptKosmit91]

Hydrogen Baby (toddler) vs Coughing Bomb (HESH)

[@LiterallyTheByn]

You just don't use it right

[@Gracefulwarrior2124]

​@@KptKosmit91 A true spooksten moment lol

[@pvt.bushmann5903]

I remember this tank when it came out and seeing a handful for the first week afterwards, but I didn't know Gaijin removed it after the fact.

[@Iron_Blood_Enjoyer1933]

Same, I didn't even remember Gaijin say anything about them removing the M728 CEV from sale.

[@Mach-2-Fishbed]

It's almost funny but a bit sad as I remember they made a full dev blog for this thing and it's technically not even a year old.

[@ghostwinter3351]

Itr was remove quite recently, and I can also remember it's devblog, thought it would be a quite nice and fun tank but, doesnt seem that way

[@valkyrie5972]

@@Iron_Blood_Enjoyer1933every time they announce a sale they say which ones are removed from the store, this one was listed

[@joesouthson4364]

I used to play the FV4005 frequently a while ago, and I noticed that it was almost always a one shot kill if you hit the enemy tank in the turret side. For some reason, the higher the impact angle, the higher the "HE effect" the shell has is.

[@Reddsoldier]

I think it's because the turret sides are really weak and you have the same pen regardless of angle. My strat has always been to hit the sides if I can see them, but we're a long time from when the AVRE could 1 shot a Maus with a good shot into the bottom of the turret.

[@Opalthira]

ive shot a sherman on a zero degreee angle in the side with the shit barn and had it only kill his driver. Its always a 50/50 chance on whether or not you get a kill or not.

[@ShadeMeister93]

28:23 Oddbawz pulled an old school COD knife throw at the start of a match right there

[@piperp9535]

Now for real life. I was an M728 gunner and commander for the 72nd Engineer Company of the 197th Inf BDE (Mechanized Separate) from 1985 to 1988. I can tell you the M135 Main Gun has a maximum effective range of 800 meters, a maximum range of 1000 meters, and the ammunition used is not called HESH, it is designated HEP (High Explosive Plastique). The M135 main gun is designated as a Demolition Gun, and it is intended to destroy objects like log cribs, bunkers, and other battlefield obstacles. The M728 was not intended to fight with other combat vehicles but a crew has to deal with what's in front of it and I did have the pleasure of gunning the M728 on the first, and only time that they were allowed to fire live rounds for Tank Gunnery during crew qualifications at Fort Benning, GA. It was the first and last time because, yes, our demolition guns demolished the range. I fired and scored a direct hit on an M48 target tank and the round tore the M48 apart. The shot was at night, I got the order to engage the tank from my TC, we had no laser range finder so distance was a visual estimate, he called it at 600 meters. I laid the gun on target, fired, and when the round hit the explosion was real, and the M48 was side -on to us, the target rocked back like it had been slapped, the engine deck which weighs probably 3000 pounds was ripped off and flew up into the air slowly rotating and spinning while burning. A couple of road wheels were burning and thrown perhaps as high as 20 meters up. There was an overall impression that a lot of other unidentifiable pieces/parts were flying all over. That tank would not have been able to continue fighting, and I don't think an enemy crew would have lived. The rest of the range, well the range personnel spent a week on bulldozers filling in the holes and repairing the other targets. The M48 I hit, they had to haul it off a bring a replacement. But all of this aside, while I did hit the enemy tank, the other two tank crews did not, and in a real situation probably would have been killed. The crews only got to train like this one time a year, and with nothing but visual range estimation and the targeting reticle to use for ranging shots, it's not an easy thing to do. I'd recommend shooting short before shooting long, a short shot at least throws up a ton of dirt and debris that will make it harder for the enemy to target you in return. Then you can hope he doesn't move while you quickly adjust and fire again hoping to score a hit. Which brings me to the next problem with the game, the reload time is stupidly wrong. It takes almost no more time to reload the M135 than any other manually loaded tank gun in service. I good loader will use the recoil of the main gun, to help lever open the breach so it's open as soon as it's been fired, there is no empty casing to extract as the entire thing does down range and only a small plastic white colored disk of plastic about the size of a quarter remains, the loader just reaches in and sweeps it out with his fingers. Much easier then dealing with a shell casing. Then the process is the same as any other tank, move the securing bar that keeps new rounds from falling out of the honeycombed ammo rack, pull out the next round and ram it into the breach with your fist, hit the release to close the breach, and yell "UP". Might have to take the electronic safety off, I forget. But in the end, the M728 reload is just as fast as any other tank not using an autoloader.

[@thePauchu]

Calling this the worst premium when the 15cm Nebelwerfer exist lol

[@timharnans]

Nah, the russian version is worst, at least the 15cm can overpressire mediums

[@owenbaldwin2460]

I don't think HESH is modelled too poorly its more just the fact that in the real world if 3 out of the 5 guys in a tank get turned into a fine paste by a HESH shell larger than a toddler, the other 2 guys don't tend to stick around to try to fight back, unlike war thunder.

[@SuperMClone]

28:20 legend says this man activated 500% RP booster

[@danieladmiraal9371]

10:10 ah yes 5 people running into enemy spawn while the enemy has more capture points

[@MyWaifuNow]

They made APHE the best shell in the game so logically they had to model HESH as if it were HEAP and make it the worst

[@Mushyboy_]

That yeet from spawn 😂 absolute Chad

[@rojevil2829]

lesson of the day: high caliber hesh goes to the track!

[@RYNOCIRATOR_V5]

The time for plushies has come. *[edit]* that shot at 14:03 was really interesting: your shell produced a shaped charge (HEAT) effect because it hit right in the middle of a V-shaped armour part and squashed around it before detonating.

[@Creepus_Explodus]

That actually used to be a thing for a while. HESH rounds created both a "primary" fragment that traveled parallel to the shell's flight path (so going straight), and the spalling perpendicular to the armour plate (like it is now). HESH was basically a better HEAT-FS then, as it could easily kill the entire crew with just one shot to the hull. Bear in mind that this was back when APDS used the APCR penetration curve and the L7 APDS struggled to penetrate T-54/T-62 hulls. So around 2017-2018, maybe.

[@RYNOCIRATOR_V5]

@@Creepus_Explodus What's the name of that weirdo HESH type?

[@Creepus_Explodus]

@@RYNOCIRATOR_V5 It was just HESH. Not sure if it was intentional or just a bug that Gaijin failed to notice for like a year. I think it was around the same time when HESH had more pen at angles. I tired to go back through Gszabi's datamine but that only goes back 3 years and those changes were before that.

[@RYNOCIRATOR_V5]

@@Creepus_Explodus Oh I see, for some reason I thought you meant this was a thing IRL, experimental HESH or some shit LOL

[@blahblahblahblah6339]

19.50-20.10 "the is-2 got him"(The bulldog disappeared)😂😂

[@justicewoodall2818]

I’m surprised as punishment they haven’t added to normal tech tree to try and make players spade it

[@snickersmyknickers5120]

It would be a fun alternative to the AVRE if it were grindable, but then again 165mm gun sucks.

[@FAL87]

@@snickersmyknickers5120 the gun is great, the hesh ammo sucks in game

[@FokkerBoombass]

The AVRE has now also been taken off the store when the holiday sales ended. They would rather get rid of all the tanks using this shell than actually put effort into fixing it lol. With that said, I still have fun with both the AVRE and this thing. The AVRE gets great ERA protection against HEAT slingers which are plentiful at this rank, and the CEV makes up with mobility, better base armour and a good .50 cal.

[@ImStiglitz]

I barely see the Cent AVREs anymore, and when they released it they were everywhere. But once they added this I’ve seen maybe a total of 3 since.

[@bimbommcgee908]

On average I get around 5 kills a game with the AVRE. What's different about this one? I understand that HESH is pretty awful on every other vehicle I've tried but the AVRE (which I think has the same gun as this??) oneshots everything it comes across. I've even killed a Leopard 2 a kilometer away with it.

[@OddBawZ]

Cupola is a one shot on this and it's only 45mm thick. An Ostwind can one shot you from any angle... very annoying.

[@bimbommcgee908]

@@OddBawZ Ah! that explains it! Ty!

[@verumnosgrohiik926]

I was once killed by one of these things in Object 268 when the HESH round landed about 20 or so feet in front of my tank, and it overpressured me. :/

[@insanity4981]

It may have been me was it a winter map?

[@FAL87]

such scenarios show once more that the devs are unable to fix their own game and code.

[@LiterallyTheByn]

Deserved for playing thst undertiered tank

[@connivingkhajiit]

I one time got overpressured in a stug III F by a HE that landed like 20 feet above me. It was on korelia and it hit the red bridge. Fired by some italian thing.

[@thatonelocalauthority2809]

Good. That what would realistically happen lmao.

[@iffracem]

Re: HESH being inconsistent.. just add it to the list, but yeah, it's worse than a lot of the other inconsistencies. To be honest, the only thing consistent about this game is that it's so consistently inconsistent.

[@David_Bernstein]

Classic Warthunder team moment around @10:40 - all caps lost but the entire team in the enemy spawn... and it is not even a German team LOL

[@eLIPHAS3333]

That shot in the intro reminds me of something a squadmate did during squad battles. It was top tier(11.0 at the time) and he spawned in the Brumbar on Stalingrad, randomly fired a shot over a building and got a kill on an LAV-AD 🤣 Epic stuff, well played.

[@lav762]

The biggest issue ive ever had with this thing is my HESH just having like a 50/50 chance of ghost shelling, mostly against tiger 2s and T-44s.

[@This_is_a_burner]

Gaijin when your HESH literally disappears into the NECK of a tank:

[@LiterallyTheByn]

That's your wifi

[@Ishmaille]

Thanks for the example of how messed up HESH is. I've had the same problem with the FV 4005, which has the best HESH shell in the game. Specifically, I shot 3 different Tiger I's in the lower front plate, the turret face, and the muzzle brake. The only one that died was the one that I shot in the muzzle brake.

[@SoldierChamorro]

I miss when HESH was BESH..............

[@ThunderHunter2019]

Odd, I’ve been waiting for you to do a video on the Centurion AVREs less desirable brother, and here she is. ❤🎉🎉 keep up the content!

[@beBKoHM]

“it isn’t that bad” - me seeing this video right after i was about to try it for the first time

[@NaturalGarethFan]

I was actually kinda tempted to get this recently because I like goofy ahh short barreled bonkers in the American tech tree (talkin to you Sherridan) and was confused when I saw it wasn’t there. A shame it’s gone, but at this point I expected it from a tank game…

[@RGbcc]

im glad warthunder never became an esport. people would have lineups CS style for every spawn/cap with all the arty tanks being added.

[@reaganguest1852]

I havent used it since before they messed with the hesh physics, so thank you for the forewarning lol

[@nogi2167]

From what I understand, a normal HE shell explodes outward in all directions, which is why the non-pen to the King Tiger’s turret face caved in the hull roof: both the turret face and hull roof were exposed to the same intensity of pressure. A HESH shell, on the other hand, is designed to direct its pressure wave most intensely through the part of the armor that the plasticized explosive is in contact with. Explosive force directed outward is wasted energy for a HESH shell, so it’s minimized. Hence the King Tiger’s hull roof was subjected to less overpressure than the turret face, as the shell is designed to direct the maximum amount of energy into the surface it contacts. HESH is almost like a shaped charge HEAT that doesn’t need to penetrate to cause damage. A HEAT shell penetrates by converting a liner cone into a hypersonic jet of molten metal into a pinpoint spot on the armor, where as HESH directs a shockwave through the armor structure itself. But in both cases, the force is not omnidirectional, like HE; it’s focused on a specific area:

[@NJPurling]

This is an engineer's vehicle for clearing obstacles, thus why it has the HESH round. Max range 1000 yards and NOT meant to engage other tanks.

[@SpiritBaker]

I've grabbed AVRE in a recent sale and it performs well for me, ~600 kills in ~200 battles. HESH definitely performs a bit weird against heavy armored targets, takes awhile to figure out where to aim.

[@stephenwallace2423]

Combat Engineer's Vehicle..... Struggles to repair own track..... DOH!

[@Creamy141]

To think that you need to aim for HESH specific weak spots with this thing and the AVRE is awful but I still love both of them so much, way too much fun. Great content as always Bawz

[@keithrogers6876]

Poor HESH.. played the doom barn the other day to try have some laughs with friends, using big boom.. So many times you shoot a front plate that is not even 200mm thick, HESH doesn't pen and somehow kills one track..

[@thunderbird-gc6gk]

hey man good to see your doing well

[@DUCKDUDE4100]

In reality HESH shells kind of are the be all and end all of explosive shells. There's a damn good reason the UK army is only just now moving to tank guns that can't shoot it. Mostly that the advantages of HESH shells have been overshadowed by the advantages of the new generation of long rod APFSDS rounds that can't be fired through a rifled HESH compatible gun.

[@bigbearrunfast]

I love this tank, so fun to arc shells, and most of the time aiming near the top is a kill

[@Falloutrip]

The fact that the M109A1 is the exact same BR as the FV4005 which only gets HESH, has a 40 second reload, and can only carry 12 rounds (compared to 13 seconds and 24 rounds on the M109) proves that Gaijin has no idea what they're doing with balance.

[@ougioshino6940]

These type of vehicles don't care too much about BR placement unless it gets into stabilizer territory. The FV could be 4.0 and still kill anything and be killed by anything

[@saltaiaw]

I watched something the other week about hesh. I think they were shooting 120mm hesh at some static tanks and were checking what damage it would do. From what I remember it tended to chip off one big piece of spalling rather than lots of little ones and generally just broke all kinds of internal parts and workings inside the tank when it goes off including fuel leaks. It also had a track hit which completely wrote the track off and tore parts away and the other test I remember is it hitting some plating to show effects on spaced armour and it just ripped the plates off and did it's job regardless. It's a really interesting ammo type and it would be cool if it had more of an impact in game.

[@connivingkhajiit]

Link it

[@saltaiaw]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqWyep2qftitm9E&ab_channel=ArmouredArchives I think this was possibly it. Although it isn't 120mm so I must be getting it mixed up with another thing.@@connivingkhajiit

[@tophatcat6424]

My great uncle was a crew member of one of these back in the 60s while he was stationed in Europe. Sadly I found this out after he passed away because of a photo of him driving it, and never got to ask him about it.

[@user-ij1my9oh1i]

I find it hilarious that is was removed on the basis of being bad, me and a mate picked it just prior to it getting removed and it is defiantly up there with some meta vehicles K/D wise. I mean the fact you can insta kill a Maus by hitting the gun mantle between the primary and secondary guns is ludicrous.

[@Shiraumere]

HE and HESH have always been poorly modeled. Gaijin can't give a shit about it. Like how shrapnel created has inherently no penetration and gets blocked by the first thing they hit, which incidentally is the same thing that causes a majority of the "volumetric" issues. They don't program further than the first interaction and then it just vanishes. I understand that programming internal ricochets and pieces of armour bouncing around the tank is impossible to put into the game but the fact the HE\HESH damage marker makes it look like you literally remove chunks of armour and then "only" killing like one part of the tank and a crew member is an insane lapse in thinking from gaijin's end. Also the shot at 36:21 kinda made me think that the reason your engine went out in the first match when facing that Tiger 2P is because he hit your engine with the MG through that armour hole that is apparently there. The only armour that shell seemed to interact with it the mudguard after that it's counted as shrapnel\past first interaction (or there is an actual armour hole) and just ignores armour. Gaijin should really look into the shell\shrapnel\spalling and armour interaction cus there is so much bullshit going in in there you could write a fucking book about it.

[@GewelReal]

HE is overperforming heavily right now. It's honestly overpowered looking at how conaistent it is. It's literally a guaranteed kill

[@Mohenjo_Daro_]

@@GewelReal Tbf, directly hitting a tank with a 155mm arty HE shell should kill it. But you still have to aim a bit since more hull hits are just going to track rather than kill. I agree HE is strong, but I think it should be,

[@Jadefox32]

depends on the cannon size and vehicle being fired at (in-game I mean). the bigger the HE shell the more likely to create spalling and turn the crew to a red paste in the fighting compartment as was the case IRL, even a 76mm HE shell should cause all kinds of issues even to a heavy tank. Gaijin has gone all over the place from making HE worthless to making it close to reality then back again.

[@VarenvelDarakus]

its not impossible , post scriptum added it(shrapnel bouncing inside tank and penetrating objects) and its not even tank oriented game. , you would think tank oriented game who often wears flag of realism would care about such details , but seams not.

[@Patches-vq8cd]

The only reason why i dont have the Centurion avre is how long it takes for the range indication in your scope to change. It take about 15 seconds to go from 100m to 200m and i cant figure out how to make it fast enough to make it worth while

[@jalenwilliams8622]

Change your multiplier on sight distance control in settings but you will need to change it back to play any other tank hope that helps I play this thing almost every day pretty successfully

[@FubukiKai]

Ngl, I love my AVRE. It might not be the best tank but it's very derpy, very silly, and therefore very fun. The best way to make WT pain is to treat it super seriously and with a gun like this you just can't do that, its actually impossible.

[@CyberneticFreak521]

i use this thing ALL THE TIME !!! i love that you finally showed it! I personally love this thing idk why its the worse but i use it and it does ok if you hit the hatch on the mantle of most tanks

[@CCM1199]

For the Non-military folks, CEV stands for Combat Engineer Vehicle. The M728 is a full-tracked combat engineer vehicle designed to provide maximum ballistic protection for the crew. It is a heavily armed derivative of the M60 series tank modified to provide a mobile and maneuverable weapon for combat support of ground troops and vehicles. The M728 vehicle is used for breaching, obstacle removal, and pioneering operations. Although the M728 consists of a tank hull and a short-barreled turret, it is not a tank and should not be routinely used against enemy tanks. It is an excellent heavy assault support vehicle when used as part of a combined engineer-infantry team. There's your reason why the "Tank" is bad. Its not to be used as a tank. The M728 was replaced by the M1150 ABV (Assault Breacher Vehicle) which had a MCLC (Mine Clearing Line Charge) equipped with a Linear Demolition Charge System (LDCS) which was capable of carrying C4 that can clear a breaching lane up to 150 Yards. We got to use them In OIF I and it feels funny when that Line charge goes off and that shock wave hits you. feels like someone slapped you with an open hand extremely hard. As far as in War Thunder, It shouldve never made it in game as it was never to fight another tank as it was never set for that role.

[@lasercat6891]

Respect to your squad mate in match two

[@ShiningDarknes]

28:22 I would not have been at al surprised if you were in a traditional HE derp tank, but with the horrendously modeled HESH? That is so goddamn funny.

[@treysmith8917]

I was looking for this the other day and I thought I was going crazy for not finding it

[@1982jeepcj8]

I loved to dig a fighting position for a squad mate on a reverse slope for something like a "walley" M901 ITV. or a scorpion m56, the blade was more useful than the gun if you placed the position right.

[@jaxonturner8898]

Never watched a KZbin video this fresh

[@Darth_Barnaby]

"Worst premium ever added" *Happy BM-8-24 noises*

[@thatonelocalauthority2809]

Atleast you are facing inexperienced players with the BM, this thing faces Cold War vehicles and experienced players constantly.

[@Darth_Barnaby]

@@thatonelocalauthority2809 I mean, youre not wrong, but a tank shouldnt be judged by the players using it, otherwise the Tiger would be at 3.0 Also you stole our navy in 1801 and we still want it back >:(

[@ryan_mi3940]

Oddbawz : it's so bad Also oddbawz : "insert montage clip on intro"

[@petzipetz]

I think I know why you can overpressure on track with that thing. It’s probably, because the game has some properties telling it, hesh is able to overpressure, but only on thin armored vehicles, as vehicles with big armor can’t be. So when hitting track, it will do the maths of overpressure working or not, while when hitting a tank somewhere else, it will not do that as it’s stoping after knowing it penned.

[@seanpurdy8230]

I am so sad I didn't pick this up simply for nostalgia purposes. I play on console though so it was literally impossible to use since you can't adjust the elevation with the mouse wheel. Anyway, for those of you who don't know, the CEV is the Combat Engineer Vehicle. It's meant to clear obstacles. Not fight tanks.

[@Natediggetydog]

It still could’ve been a decent vehicle in war thunder if gaijin was smart enough to treat hesh different than normal he

[@timharnans]

Wait, it was removed?

[@userjlj]

the british equivalent of this seems to be fine fighting tanks.. so there should be no reason this one would do bad.. it's got the same cannon..

[@thebeastmk2]

You can assign a control to range your gun I personally have it set to hold L2 and up/down directional, I also fiddled with the sensitivity so it goes in 20 metre increments which is slow to use at long range but if I made it faster for range I wouldn't be able to get accurate adjustments

[@blaynehamilton2120]

@@thebeastmk2 which setting did ypoi tweak to.adjust how many metres of goes up n down

[@The_Boastful]

Here's a thought. Tun a challenge with anything HESH with a big shell - AVRE, this thing, the 4005 - what have you. But exclusively shoot for tracks the whole video and see if that doesn't consistently kill more XD

[@lord_vader6545]

Fun fact about Odds Discord, I got banned from it after telling one of the mods or a mods friend, idk, because I told him to fuck off after he was being homophobic in a VC, and when I asked one of the other mods why I was banned banned, he said “harassment” but there is literally a guy on there who joins VCs just to yell and insult people, and then I got told the mod who banned me was “asleep”. What a load of bullshit.

[@luket6522]

I love this tank, got it when its released all you have to do is shoot under any tank you see and it will kill it. Genuinely surprised how much it is hated on

[@randyd9090]

I was a gunner on this tank during desert storm, we used hep rounds that did massive damage, if I remember right it was 65 pounds of c4, I’m old now and it seems so long ago

[@undeaddread]

The floor under the tank is a guaranteed 1 shot on anything I've faced in my AVRE

[@michaelmcatamney9231]

glad i bought it before they removed it. I find it a blast to play, being able to destroy anything i look at is a great feeling. The dozer blade is pretty fun too imo.

[@san0mad]

This thing kills me every time I see it. Although I can probably count it on my fingers, still every time. When I first faced this thing, it ate a good 6 heat-fs without critical cause I had (and still have) like 0 idea where to shoot this thing

[@lukav3509]

it makes me cry. always late and out of cash.

[@Tsarbloonba]

The way HESH works is by aligning to the angle becoming 0° using the squash part, then explodes, causing fragmentation on the INSIDE.

[@Micharlus]

Personally I love using HESH, especially on Strv 103A and C. The fast reload makes up for lower damage and with laser rangefinder it's much easier to aim at weakspots. And it's so satisfying to see some tank angling only to use this angle against them with a nice sideshot. That's actually something one has to learn when using HESH. It's not a 100 or 0 like HE. It's kinda more like APDS. The difference is instead of having high pen perpendicular to surface you have high pen at high angles. Instead of shooting flattest surface you aim at purely lowest armoured part you can see, no matter the angle. And a surface which normal points at a lot of important stuff. Overall it ain't best but it's workable and at least unlike APDS isn't straight outclassed by other types of ammo and it has some niche advantages over other types of ammo. And ofc, the HE part working only when not hitting directly is a bullshit.

[@tejdz1337]

how hard could it be for gaijin to just roll it back to when HESH worked

[@AlleyCat6446]

Bro that shell drop is freaking insane!

[@michaelmcclure3812]

That cross map kill at the beginning of the match just threw me back to my MW2 days. MW2 the first that is.

[@thesleekgreek]

I’m so glad I picked this up :) I’m a new player and I’m always upset that I missed certain tanks, sturmtiger, etc

[@BigBruh47]

That guy spaming atgms from the cap was so funny :D

[@F104Gaming]

I dont care how bad it is, it's still my first premium I ever bought so it will always hold a special place in my heart.

[@timharnans]

same

[@Optimusprime56241]

L

[@thesleekgreek]

@@Optimusprime56241tbh owning any discontinued tank is a W

[@superiorpotato598]

That's rough bro, but i hope you enjoy the thing,maybe one day in the far future HESH will be fuxed and your first premium will be viable.

[@F104Gaming]

@@superiorpotato598 tbh I do really, at one point I was so good with it I could eyeball shots 3rd person, I love the thing to death. Even with its many flaws

[@LastGoatKnight]

Yeah, HESH is a bit scuffy at the moment. I used the one on the STB-2 and in the test drive it barely does anything. In a match however it's pretty powerful, two-shot T29 type powerful, while the opposite is true to the other ammo type, the APDS. In the test drive it one-shots the soviet MBTs on display 1 or 2 BR higher that the tank I used. In reality it barely knocks the 90% of a crew and turning the breech red when shooting a Leo I in the upper part of the gunmantlet, while going straight through the optics (I'm still beefy of that match I got one shot killed by that Leo and it was like my 4th match and first ever shot with that tank)

[@Strv103Moment]

From my experience the british avre can one shot but it seems that this thing struggles tremendously. The one thing they could do for all is to give both a rangender since I dont think there could be a better default aiming reticle since having the distance set to such sensitivity is pain when you play more then just hesh slings

[@jedor988]

Gotta respect that Zachlam for persistence though

[@fenfrostpaws2000]

I honesty love this thing. Got a nice 7.0 lineup with it

[@garryb374]

When the 155mm HE shell hits the turret front it explodes immediately and most of the blast on a 155mm shell goes sideways because it is much longer than it is wide and the shrapnel is the sides of the shell rather than the tip. When normally used it is lofted into the air rather than used as a direct fire round so it normally comes down nearly vertically creating a much more even and deadly shrapnel pattern on the ground. The HESH round is intended to send vibrations through solid armour plate so it flattens out like a big piece of putty to create the biggest area of vibration as possible which means the amount of explosion going downwards would be negligible anyway. The biggest rounds hitting German armour during WWII would probably be 152mm Russian HE rounds which were regularly fired at enemy tanks. They didn't kill the heavier vehicles with overpressure, they normally blew the turrets out of alignment or off. I suspect this is a game feature only for game play.

[@omnimaplez]

that was dirty asf the tiger at 13:00 was shaking its head no 😭

[@publixwholewheatbread]

already got the plush when it was first announced on the discord 😎

[@smolwavingsnail9028]

It's funny they literally tested the AVRE's cannon on a tiger 2 p irl and it absolutely annihilated the tank but gayjin is just like nah that never happened

[@AverySadBear]

Imagine Snail making hesh and solid shot work right. Or HE. Or HEAT...

[@uhoh4480]

I was gonna buy this tank on sale but i didn’t know they were gonna delete it, here I stand during winter sale devastated

[@adimaiuniversal4361]

found one of those at around 6.7? yeah that DOZER MADE IT SO HARD TO KILL also since its so rare nobody knew how to kill it XD

[@DeltaS64Lima]

Thanks OddBawZ I'm done with asking for one video on the South African TTD centurion after 3 years of asking thanks mate have a good one.

[@OddBawZ]

You have the most unbelievable timing ever... :)

[@ulfhedtyrsson]

His performance matches the size of his barrel. All the german cats try to not giggle as they attempt to hide their amusement at his effort while they pretend to feel it.

[@Newvegasfiend]

Hey look our favourite Scott has uploaded

[@owenschulz9504]

Honestly this is one of my favorite premium purchases- even if it isn’t technically good, it is so fun to donk people

[@owenschulz9504]

Also it looks cool

[@ExcavationNation]

Loved this video!

[@osmacar5331]

Well if they made an actually accurate damage model it'd be ridiculous, British HESH being the most terrifying.