They Knew It All Along: New Evidence Supports Irvine’s 'Removal' from Everest in 1975

[@EverestMystery]

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[@shannonleary2399]

I'm sorry but I'm going to need a LOT more Simba cameos

[@mzdkkeller]

Ugh. That continual grooming isn't something I enjoy.

[@marvellegends_uk]

Don't think I've ever clicked on a video alert so fast 😊😊

[@TheStinkysteve]

You’re not joking!! Me too

[@tracycameron5099]

Me too! He is so good

[@No1.OriginalTrilogyStarWarsFan]

Same here

[@drzecelectric4302]

Same!

[@theothermorgan]

@@marvellegends_uk I came here to say that!

[@mikesomerset6338]

What we really need here is a separate channel specifically devoted to videos of Simba.

[@EverestMystery]

I think you have just stumbled upon my means of making a living. This Everest stuff is pretty heavy, and Simba is a beacon of light and love! Duly recorded! Thank you!

[@Peloso15]

Love it, been waiting for an update. Thank you!

[@ursuladirnberger]

This has been an interesting year. I'm glad that I've found this channel where I get more information about climbing Mount Everest and other stories about mountaineering. Sandy Irvine's boot has been discovered and even more speculation and mystery have come up that I've never heard before. It's absolutely fascinating and I'm sure that new great stories on this channel will captivate me again next year. I appreciate your efforts to always provide us with good content. This channel is worth supporting. Merry Christmas and a happy and successful new year to you and your family. May the next year will be full of joy, happiness and health. Merry Christmas, everyone!!!

[@EverestMystery]

I cannot thank you enough for your amazing support. I appreciate your presence in this community of like-minded individuals.

[@dukecraig2402]

Alright Thom!!! Great video, Jamie and Holzel along with yourself, 3 of the greats when it comes to Everest and the Mallory and Irvine mystery, can't go wrong watching a video like that. Also, it should be mentioned for the sake of the viewers that without Holzel there would be no modern interest in the mystery of Mallory and Irvine as I'm sure you know, them and the mystery surrounding them was largely forgotten until Holzel wrote the 1969 article published by the New York Times about them and the mystery of their fate, that sparked an interest that over the years has snowballed and led to all these books having been written, KZbin channels, National Geographic and BBC specials that led to Mallory's and Irvine's remains ultimately being found, without the spark created by him none of it would exist most likely, one could say he's the father of the Mallory and Irvine mystery, I'm glad he's still around to see the discovery of Irvine's remains, he deserves it.

[@MegaMesozoic]

Many thanks for this update! Can't help feeling that if the Chinese managed to develop that film and it proved that Mallory and Irvine summitted, they would have good reason to say they couldn't develop it! Love Simba, he's one gorgeous cat!

[@DK-gy7ll]

Nothing can interfere with the official Chinese narrative that they were the first ones to reach the top from "their" side of the mountain. It wouldn't even surprise me if they don't bother to teach their kids that Hillary and Norgay ever existed.

[@agathacccc2710]

I just finished reading The Mystery of Mallory and Irvine. What a great surprise to see one of its authors on the channel!

[@EverestMystery]

Tom is a long time friend and colleague, and is always happy to lend his thoughts. Thanks so much for watching!

[@brendanoneill1466]

A) Simba is adorable B) I think Sandy was removed in 75, but no real evidence beyond what you have shared. C) Thank you so much for sharing all of this. So fascinating.

[@EverestMystery]

A) Simba is the man, and he loves cameos! B) Ditto C) You are absolutely welcome, and thank YOU

[@chriscunningham5150]

My question is why would they disturb him? And why the secrecy? Leads me to believe they discovered evidence Mallory and Irvine summited and were coming back down. Whatever the reason it seems very deceitful to move a resting person that died doing what they love. And destroying their remains in leu of letting their respective countries know and retrieve them. The whole thing is good to know but stinks to think about.

[@czarcastic1458]

Mallory wrote his wife twice claiming we have a 1 in 50 chance of making it to the top and we are exhausted and don't have the equipment and knowledge to make it to the top but will give it a go. All tangible evidence is E of the first step. 3 other people at camp 5 had eyes on the mountain and never saw anything. Good chance they never even made it to the first step and had the accident.

[@camojoe83]

That's probably the laziest and most uninformed take on M&I's attempt I've ever seen.

[@camojoe83]

They definitely made it. The watch was crushed at 1 o'clock something, and his Mallory had his sun goggles in his pocket. They fell in the dark. Getting back down the citadel probably ate up the time and doomed them.

[@czarcastic1458]

@@camojoe83 Nonsense. Zero proof they got past the first step. A broken watch means nothing.

[@camojoe83]

@@czarcastic1458 except it'll tell you what time it was smashed & stopped. Broken watches are right twice a day, after all. You're going to tell me there was a storm that day as well I bet.

[@MizQue]

" Old English dead" was found by the Chinese in 1975. In 1999, you guys found George Mallory near the remnants of the 1975 Chinese camp. They didn't roll George off the mountain, so why would they dispose of Sandy?

[@Boababa-fn3mr]

Maybe they didn't find Mallory

[@kcbarbo78]

They didn’t.

[@wrobinson1702]

@@kcbarbo78 That makes sense. There had been 1-2 Chinese sightings of a body in that area, but not 2 bodies. Therefore, the body they found and "disposed of" in 1975 could very well have been Sandy Irvine. And that implies that George Mallory's body was not found until the PBS/BBC expedition of 1999, as was witnessed by the EverestMystery videographer. The perhaps more intriguing question was whether Sandy Irvine had the infamous camera on him when he died, and did the Chinese find it (and take it away) in 1975. Their motive for taking the camera (and dumping the body) might have been that they wanted no evidence to be found of yet another Westerner having summited Everest before any Chinese did.

[@dukecraig2402]

Someone had seen Mallory's remains before Thom and those guy's found him, but the exact location would have spun off into the universe because the guy who saw him was by himself, it was either a Chinese or Japanese climber, I can't remember which, who wasn't on his expeditions summit team and was hanging out by himself at their upper camp waiting on the return of the summit team who were making a bid that day, and the conditions were basically the same as when Conrad and those guys found him, it was a nice day and had been a year with very little snowfall on the mountain, along with temps that'd melted most snow up there exposing alot of the mountain surface, the conditions were nice that day and he was bored so he decided to take advantage of the weather take a stroll and stumbled across Mallory's remains, his description of Mallory's remains jives with what you see in the pictures and video from when Conrad found him in regards to his posture, and like the Chinese who'd seen Irvine's remains described Mallory as "English dead", then after the summit team returned either because they wanted to get down the mountain or because weather had moved in, or a combination of both, no one had any interest in him taking them over to the remains he'd seen, so the exact location spun off into the universe. So when the Chinese did one of their "mountain clean ups" they not only wouldn't have known the exact location of Mallory's body it's also likely that wouldn't matter anyway because they weren't years when his body would have been exposed, like most years it'd have been under snow, had the guy who stumbled across him and Conrad's team later in 99 not had the rare conditions that made it possible to see him they'd have never been able to find him, in both cases it was luck that it was one of those rare years when it's even possible to see his body even if someone knew exactly where it's at. Famous bodies that are used as reference points by climbers such as Green Boots are in places where they don't get covered with snow, in the case of Green Boots that's because he was up under a rock overhang, other bodies are exposed quit a bit of the time because they're at places that are always wind swept where snow won't pile up.

[@ThomasGeisler-gv5ld]

Hi, Simba!! Glad you are inside. Temperature this morning was -1°

[@10splitter]

The found boot contained a foot. Remarkable how well preserved human remains are in the Death Zone.

[@davem8836]

I don't know what really happened either Thom but one thing I give you credit for is this; You don't talk to us like you're the only one who knows what happened, all other KZbinrs on the subject are fools, and you don't talk to us like we're all a bunch of idiots like someone else I know.

[@EverestMystery]

Thanks so much. One thing I absolutely DO know is that I don't know any more than anyone else. This is a beautiful and fabulous mystery that should bring people closer together, even if there are disagreements.

[@Bearwithme560]

Sadly, l agree with you. When even the spelling of Thom's name is mocked, l feel there's a mean streak that comes from - where?

[@edkiely2712]

Well gee Dave! Do you think you hv the courage to name him and support your claim, rather than hide behind an implied generalization and cheap innuendo?

[@d.optional3381]

@@edkiely2712 what's it to you?

[@edkiely2712]

Yaaaawn!

[@katherinechatham9032]

I feel certain they threw the body down. I question the story about the camera having film that could not be developed. China has always been competitive and if that film proved they in fact did summit, they could have ruined the film to hide the truth. It’s sad to know they were that disrespectful to human remains.

[@Bl913]

China doesn't seem to care about respecting remains. All those bodies sliced thinly that they put on display are unclaimed Chinese dead. I've even heard that they harvest organs from prisoners while they're still alive.

[@tundranomad]

That is 1 CLEAN cat!

[@93emmie]

Hi from the UK I'm a new subscriber. I'm from Liverpool in the UK been a new subscriber for a couple of weeks. I'm not a climber as I'm disabled but love anything to do with climbing. I love your videos but most of all I love your cat he's gorgeous wow what a beautiful cat. X

[@Wisdom-Nuggets-Tid-Bits]

Thank you for this gem of an update. Personally, I believe the Chinese did retrieve Irvine's body, took the camera, and tried to develop the film. Then they dropped the case - so to speak - and kept things quiet forever. I think it is a blessing that the boot was able to be retrieved by your team. I cannot believe that Mallory or Irvine made it to the summit. At least the family has some sort of closure. By the way, Simba is looking quite the handsome gentleman there on the set!! Thank you for the upload. Merry Christmas to you and your family and a healthy and blessed New Year!! Stay safe and happy.

[@kensilverstone1656]

I think the thrust of your thesis, and the experts you talked with, is that the Chinese lied about finding Irvine's body and throwing it down the North Face, but you believe the Chinese with untested climbers did climb the north side of Everest in 1960 in the dark without oxygen and an incredibly long stay in the death zone. Also you believe that Mallory, with an inexperienced partner in Irvine, decided to try a route never attempted before rather than follow the traverse days earlier by Norton and Sumervall, which ended with Norton within 800 or so feet of the summit. I'm skeptical.

[@thorisrain]

11:11 Lol, Simba is not interested, but gosh what a beauty! :D Don't worry, our grey and white shorthair, Sooty, slept through the whole thing too! :D There's no way a cat would go up Everest anyway, it's too wet and cold and windy, cats don't got no time for that lol. That said, the north face of the Eiger does have that cat flap thing, but I bet even then they'd still come scratching on the bedroom window in the middle of the night to get back in rather than using the damn flap, lol :D

[@cattymajiv]

The most common topic for comments here? Simba the cat! What a gorgeous boy! Lots of love to him. Great video too! ❤

[@EverestMystery]

Simba's ears are ringing off the hook! He is a great companion and has a wonderful and fun personality : )

[@Shoshun2]

Whether or not they made it to the top it is hardly successful if you die up there.

[@kamakaziozzie3038]

Whether or not it is confirmed as Irving’s boot, the biggest question if they made it to the top first will remain unanswered.

[@10splitter]

But then a "successful summit" is typically considered to include a live return back to the bottom.

[@davem8836]

I agree but if all mysteries were solved, there'd be noting to talk about.

[@FrankPagan-d9k]

It will always be unanswered I believe. I think the film in the camera was destroyed by the Chinese and there just isn't anything else that could point to them making it. I believe they got close but turned around because of bad weather and on the way back one slipped on the yellow band route and they fell with mallory getting slung out and slid down violently when the rope snapped and Irvine remained further up but survived the accident and as it was a storm and dark by then he just laid there and never got back up and froze to death.

[@fabioresende3442]

@@10splitter but that's not the mistery or questioned, we've know for 100 years that they didn't complete the 'sucessfull summit '

[@MegaMesozoic]

@@fabioresende3442 Nobody has known whether they made a successful summit - except perhaps the Chinese!

[@swimcat2333]

Ooooh, I like that cat. You talk he preens himself ❤. Interesting video too

[@winkieblink7625]

Just because the Chinese climbers said they took Irvine’s body & camera or thrown Irvine’s body off the mountain “during Mao’s leadership time”, does NOT GIVE those statements any credibility. I feel, like most, those are Irvine’s bones in his boot, and I still hope his body will be discovered. The conversations you bring to us are so interesting. Thank you from all us couch readers! And, Merry Christmas!

[@Outofthisworldengraving]

I’ve often thought, does it matter if Sandy and George were the first to the top? Why does it matter so much to the Chinese? Why all the politics and silence? It’s a mountain for christs sakes! Why all the anonymity with information? IMHO when they found the camera and tried to develop it (which I think they did) and didn’t want to say anything about it, proves in my mind that they made it to the top and the Chinese know it. Because if they had not, they Chinese would have immediately came out and said they had all the proof they didn’t.

[@DK-gy7ll]

It matters to the Chinese because they are busy reshaping the historical narrative of their country to make the communists look good. Telling their people that they were the first to reach the top of Everest is their version of saying they reached the Moon. By the way, they have already changed their history books to say that the USA attacked North Korea in 1950, starting the war, and they intervened to protect and defend the poor North Koreans.

[@wyomingadventures]

Thanks for the update. It's an interesting topic. I'm fascinated by Irvine and Mallory's climb. I do think the Chinese moved Irvine. Really think it would be impossible to find Irvine's body in that glacier. Finding his boot was pure luck. The right place at the right time situation.

[@DK-gy7ll]

We're not going to find the rest of Sandy Irvine because you can be pretty much assured the Chinese are already up there getting rid of the evidence. They're not going to let any westerners into the Central Rongbuk Glacier until it's been completely sanitized.

[@EverestMystery]

I think you're right about the right time and the right place. But, now that there are general coordinates, it will be easier for anyone given permission in the (not near) future.

[@sisterpamop]

The story of Sandy Irving intrigues me. The mystery continues on from the original climb until today, which makes this a story of suspense filled with puzzles of incongruous details. DNA will clear part of the mystery but not lead to any definitive conclusions. I'm pleased that his memory and history aren't forgotten. Have a Christmas of joy and peace.

[@EverestMystery]

Thank you so much :) I'm grateful for your support and insight

[@billbright1755]

Sandy’s foot being down in the glacier is very compelling evidence that at some point in time his body was indeed tossed down from his original resting place and by gravity and the slope of the mountain he ended up thousands of feet tumbling off the ridge.

[@Trish.Norman]

Exactly! Well said. My thoughts as well.

[@LD-qj2te]

Why is there any doubt that it is his boot ? It has his name in it ?? Do we think that someone stole his boot and hiked up there and abandoned it ??

[@EverestMystery]

There’s very little doubt. But, the DNA from a scientific standpoint, would bring absolute truth to it.

[@camojoe83]

It's just a stalling tactic.

[@katherinechatham9032]

Exactly my thought.

[@BrotherTris]

Is it not possible that he might have lent his spare socks to someone else who needed them?

[@camojoe83]

@BrotherTris no. It's not. Who would you suggest that could be?

[@HW-Plays-EST23]

same clicked so fast on this video!

[@EmSpacebird]

Simba! ❤️

[@tonyk438]

How does this square with the effort needed to move Mallory's body? If the Chinese "threw" the body off the mountain, then wouldn't that have been too big of a task to do and then ascend? I mean they would have had to do a thorough search first. Call me skeptical when it comes to communist China. All it takes to make history is one or two voices to then propagate a story. Show me the camera, and then I'll believe it. Maybe they don't want anyone finding Irvine is just as likely. Maybe they are afraid of the possibility of confirmation. IMO the first group that made it to the top and have proof and made it back are the first.

[@theothermorgan]

Love your videos, just found your channel a few months ago.

[@EverestMystery]

I'm really happy that you found the channel and that you are enjoying it!

[@pegspun]

Another wonderful and informative video, Thom! Thank you so much for all you do!!🤍

[@EverestMystery]

Thanks so much for watching, I truly appreciate it. Thank you for your support :)

[@hanslaught2351]

Does it even matter when they didn't return to base camp or anywhere off Everest after (potentially) summiting? We should be heaping praise on smarter climbers who turned back at 8,000 or even 7,000 or 6,000 meters rather than dying up there. With all due respect, what would China lose by having some expedition make it to the top very early but then dying shortly afterwards? Very confusing in my opinion.

[@kmissy5664]

A very interesting video. Was Irvine then the body with 'antique' clothes that the Chinese came across?

[@LinusWilson]

Any tips for “climbing” Mt Mansfield via gondola?

[@thefanone]

I think they took his camera and left his body to save face. 😮

[@katherinechatham9032]

I am inclined to believe the same.

[@04nbod]

Its really suspicious that the Chinese seem to specifically don't want people looking. As you say, he will turn up eventually.

[@ShakeelAhmed-pr7gn]

Seems the camera revealed something. The Chinese wont disclose.

[@frederickking1660]

Name on a sock is better than DNA

[@davidjarkeld2333]

2:21 Will be submitting DNA? The BBC reported 2 months ago on 11th October that samples have already been given

[@EverestMystery]

The DNA from the boot was submitted, yes. The Irvine family had not lifted a finger to submit their DNA.

[@davidjarkeld2333]

It's pointless to give just one sample, it needs something to compare it to.

[@EverestMystery]

@ two family members are submitting their DNA to be matched with that found in the boot. It is taking place in China.

[@04nbod]

@@EverestMystery Why China? Why is his foot being repatriated? They can't just hold on to his foot forever.

[@dukecraig2402]

​@@04nbod No they won't hold onto it forever, verifying it's Irvine through the test is what they need to repatriot it, they don't want to give his family remains that turned out not to be him.

[@randyp-38ace53]

He's in the glacier

[@alphasportstv]

Very interesting stuff...thanks

[@Russojap2]

Very interesting! Greetings from East Tennessee 🤠

[@scotts6067]

Someone told someone who told someone he was pushed? Here is your tin foil hat.

[@Trish.Norman]

But the someone who told someone was there. That makes them a witness.

[@alekhidell7068]

One of the other great tragedies is that Everest happens to be located in Chinese jurisdiction.

[@EverestMystery]

The border of Nepal and China runs right over the top of the mountain and along the ridges that run down from it. The part that is in China is more along the lines of a wild wild west (or south), with few, if any, regulations.

[@Mark-Book]

In Tom's book he says skeptics of them summiting say the Second Step was beyond the capability of Mallory and Irvine? Mallory was a gifted climber. Could I get your opinion please or a link to a discussion about this if you have the time?. I have never been there?

[@Phoenixhunter157]

Clicked on the video so fast I nearly sprained my finger 😂

[@jockdoc07]

Usual nice but the cat is driving me nuts! Keep up the great work.

[@lordcornwallis2]

great video

[@BerniceMcKellar]

Most interesting. Thank you.

[@GasPipeJimmy]

Did the Chinese do it? I’m suspicious of that claim. Until we have the body…

[@katherinechatham9032]

You must look at who had something to gain by getting rid of the body and taking the camera with the film that would have shown them summiting. (That is assuming they did summit). Climbing is competitive. I believe the Chinese would have had something to gain. I can’t imagine anyone else saying oh yes, let’s just throw this body off the mountain as far as we can toss it. People go to Everest to summit. They don’t just throw bodies around. If family members requested that a body be lowered into a crevasse to get them out of sight (privacy) then that would be understandable. Getting rid of evidence is a whole new ballgame. It’s horrible to think he was thrown down.

[@vanzell1912]

All governments create propaganda. Some governments are much more adept than others at propaganda. China has been the champion at propaganda ever since Mao. Believe nothing they say.

[@Boababa-fn3mr]

There was nothing in it for the glory of China to be open, honest and not to desecrate Irvine.

[@tarnvedra9952]

But it is backed up by solid evidence of spam e-mail that Synot received from "ex-marine" that put him in contact with "British diplomat". One of his other "sources" is probably Prince of Nigeria.

[@JohnBernardon-py7wf]

I love a ginger cat. Yes I want to see videos of Simba, which means lion in Swahili.

[@EverestMystery]

Simba has made many appearances in my livestreams, once recently jumping on my lap and staring into my eyes. He's a character!

[@TigerLilyBlossom1]

Am I the only person who gets sad at the use of Irvine getting tossed down the mountain? 😢

[@zanpsimer7685]

We don’t have any more answers than we did before except the upcoming dna results. Rumors and speculations is the same as it ever was.

[@Thankyou423.3]

Very interesting

[@patrickrodgers4298]

Prior to the 2008 Olympics the North side was off limits so a clean up of The Mountain was done and I reckon Irivine was moved from the upper North Face.

[@catsafeguard6921]

What does "His face was blackened meaning he didn't die in the fall" mean?

[@ruidh]

So, where is this slot relative to where George Mallory was found? Did they fall together?

[@theswordguy5269]

Its above Mallory closer to the ridge, IIRC.

[@sofianoce6071]

Why does the black face mean that Irvine didn't die because of the fall? There are so many details about the body that I believe that somebody must have spotted it and given the location where the boot was found the body must have been removed. Imho this is the most logical conclusion.

[@EverestMystery]

This is a really important question, thank you. Tissue (skin) will only blacken from frostbite if the person is alive. Basically, this is because frostbite requires functioning skin tissue and blood flow. Exposure to extreme cold causes ice crystals to form within the cells. In not living individuals, there’s no circulation, and everything merely freezes (and doesn't turn black). This helped me gauge how quickly George Mallory might have succumbed, given that his face had absolutely no frostbite.

[@sofianoce6071]

@EverestMystery thank you for your answer! Very intersting! If I got it right this means that Mallory succumbed soon after the fall because his face wasn't black while Irvine must have been alive for a long period after the fall because his face went black due to forstbite!

[@jwillow2642]

they shouldn't really stop people from climbing, unless they actually know where he is and was thrown

[@moiraatkinson]

I think you should introduce us to Simba sometime 😊. I don’t get the excitement over a 1933 oxygen bottle 🤔. That can’t have anything to do with Mallory and Irvine.

[@EverestMystery]

I honestly thought about saying something about Simba - but opted to leave that for my livestreams, where he has made several appearances. There is a tab that shows livestreams, I think he was in the last two or three, sometimes jumping on my lap. The discovery of the '33 O2 bottle was more than anything a tip that things were moving downstream on the central Rongbuk. Seeing it made them think (probably) that if a bottle could be found way down there, what if they found something else really interesting, which could have ranged from more evidence of 1930's British expeditions to Marco Siffredi, the snowboarded who fell near the top of the north face, or, in this case, Sandy (which I bet they weren't expecting). This video that I'm sharing the link to here explains more about the '33 O2 bottle and its significance --> What National Geographic Won't Tell You About Irvine's Remains on Everest: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2Gqon6tnLGte9k

[@joem8740]

Very interesting and despicable if true that the Chinese did this (though your cat seems particularly disinterested.)

[@AlexanderBecker2009]

His Name is Irvine not Irwin....

[@KSparks80]

Who said it was Irwin? I didn't hear it.

[@uyegidgg]

Ah, the chinese. Where's thanos and his glove when you need him

[@lady2550]

There was a woman who said this a long time ago. People laughed at her

[@chealey3658]

Who has taken Mallory’s body ? Or has his body site been lost or slipped down mountain I’m sure on another one of your mystery Everest talk you said you reburied Mallory under some rocks

[@vickorano]

wait, Mallory was removed??

[@vickorano]

Just did a quick search, I really haven't been paying enough attention on this, wow. What a slap in the face. At least it was recorded when discovered... no reason to remove those bodies with the evidence already being so solid. How sad.

[@Phyrman1]

Simba’s muttonchop mane is GLORIOUS.

[@EverestMystery]

We 100% agree, thus how he got his name 'Simba' : )

[@pyrholorange]

if all possibilities are on the table we have to consider that the chinese may have destroyed the film because it somehow showed mallory + irvine didnt summit. and the chinese felt the mystery would be best left unsolved.

[@EverestMystery]

Yes, Tom Holzel hinted at that! Thanks for watching!

[@nigellacey559]

Interesting

[@HLburkewriter]

That is an epic cat

[@alimccreery755]

Thank you so much for this information and update 👍🤗

[@inannashu689]

Mallory's ( as it currently is on the mountain) body is missing his foot and boot exactly as the one they found. I don't think personally it's Irvine's I believe it's Mallory's. Will be interesting to see.

[@EverestMystery]

At the time of the discovery and both visits to the site where Mallory lay, he wasn't missing a foot. It's true that there was only one boot. I saw with my own eyes that both feet were intact and attached.

[@mikesomerset6338]

Would the Chinese have really just casually tossed the body down the mountain? The Chinese have huge respect for the dead. Never mind the legal and ethical considerations.

[@samuelsullivan9546]

Yes. They would have. This is just how a bureaucracy works, particularly in a dictatorship. Communists do not have legal and ethical considerations.

[@billykershaw2781]

👍

[@Cape_Cod_Steve]

✌️ 🎄 ☃️ 🎉 ❤

[@christophermacmillan7438]

Hahahaha u hit it on the head it’s just like the military you tube but it’s the prison one it’s getting old aswell and Louis Theroux Miami super max is tbe best doco ever made about jails