They want to Ban Kyurem (AGAIN)...but should they?

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Kyurem is once again being suspect tested in the Pokemon Scarlet and Violet OU Tier and might be banned! What do you think? Should they ban Kyurem? Let me know down below!
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asfgerthrrth Enjoy!

[@user-kh7zf]

They won't ban Kyurem, otherwise they can't keep suspect testing Kyurem

[@InsertFunnyThingHere]

Pretty sure Lokix can't oneshot Kyurem, so yeah ban it

[@nistrosempai5285]

My exact thought process

[@EggscellentTree]

Kyurem banned is a step closer for exeggutor to become an OU staple again. I agree it needs to go (but I'll be coming for your lokix when the time is right)

[@fsgdevil7959]

252+ Atk Choice Band Lokix Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 396-468 (101.2 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

[@hardikmittal2972]

​@@fsgdevil7959 But sub or protect means lokix can't kill it as well as choice band gives it a free turn

[@Oneandonly-xg6iu]

@@fsgdevil7959That’s actually pretty sad considering Kyurem still outspeeds and Lokix usually doesn’t run low kick

[@RocketPropelledMexican]

That one guy on the forum thread trying to gaslight people into thinking ZapKingLu was ever a dominant threat that will take over the meta with a Kyurem ban tho lmao

[@greattitan371]

One of the first people in the thread was saying if Kyurem gets banned the ground type as a whole will be busted. Fear mongering is legit all the anti ban crowd has.

[@waaaaaaah]

ZapKingLu when es dee glisor

[@spand9043]

​@@waaaaaaah gliscor is likely to get banned alongside kyurem or shortly after if it goes, and maybe even if kyurem doesnt get banned. Its the #2 ban priority after kyurem as of rn and theres talk of a suspect test very soon

[@waaaaaaah]

@@spand9043 ZapKingLu when ogerpon-w ivy cudgels all over their core (Zapdos can no longer switch in for free if it gets chipped for even 1%)

[@spand9043]

@@waaaaaaah waterpon probably also gon get banned if kyurem goes ngl

[@MMMagearna]

Kyurem got banned last gen and it didnt have tera. it narrowly dodging the ban is telling that it will get banned if the day they hold the vote on is a bad day for voters

[@Slaking_]

As a real gambling addict I love Kyurem's "guess right or you lose on the spot" gameplay, it's very exciting to face off against

[@InsertFunnyThingHere]

I run meteor mash metronome clefable for ultimate gambling

[@daigustoemeral3710]

​@@InsertFunnyThingHereif only clefable had serene grace

[@InsertFunnyThingHere]

@@daigustoemeral3710 this is why togekiss is my goat fr

[@thefranklin6463]

Shout out to whoever gifted me a membership! It’s been a while since I’ve watched a vid but I love to see you still doing your thing 😊

[@CheddaChurkey]

My reasoning for it needing to be banned: standard dd set (jolly, 252ATK/252 speed, loaded dice, dd, icicle spear, tera blast) with tera electric goes so stupid

[@theweirdduckduck]

the agency reusing teams and thumbnails, don't think we didn't notice. the budget gone into blunder's new addiction 😭

[@morningmetro]

should be banned. hard to tell which type of kyreum is until its too late and you get sweeped usually because of that. basically just leaves games up to chance on if you guess right or not.

[@Pishooter]

The only reason for he didn't get banned first time was because there were fewer known sets

[@Spicynugz223]

Tera is fun, but in general the criteria for the mons that are broken with it is effectively bulky set up sweeper with good speed tier/priority, bonus points if it has set variety or is an abuser of substitute with amazing coverage with just its stab moves. I really dislike bans to keep this mech. I think this gen without Tera would have been fine but I’m happy to have seen it play out since gen 8 dynamax was balls.

[@z-leigh6554]

Honestly several of the early meta mons (which are less problematic now but still...) like gambot amd gold would have been far more manageable without it, and Espathra might be somewhat less obnoxious

[@z-leigh6554]

But yeah the current banned things are mostly tera bans essentially, save maybe the offensive chiens

[@johnpolsen]

@@z-leigh6554 Espathra had speed boost and stored power on the same set, it would have been broken anyway.

[@vivillonenthusiast781]

@@johnpolsen not really, espathra relies on tera to give it fighting/fire/stronger fairy coverage, without it, it can't really break Steel and Dark types effectively, might still get banned, but it's nowhere near a certainty.

[@fulltimeslackerii8229]

@@vivillonenthusiast781it had draining kiss and aura sphere. And after a calm mind or 2, it’s stored power was crazy strong

[@Entelarmer]

Imagine if Kyurem did not lost Roost this gen. 😮

[@michaelconnelly6405]

Day 30 of asking for you to remind everyone why Jirachi was an OU caliber threat

[@Ada-Wong.]

This^

[@ardoin_337]

Day one of reminding you why that mon is RU for a damn reason this gen

[@Seeker_of_Truth_and_Beauty]

I appreciate all the Megaman music recently. It's bringing back some memories. :)

[@blazie42069]

Quick answer, yes because this mon is even more broken than it was, sub protect set is real nasty and the set variety is gross

[@harb1ng3r82]

I think Kyurem needs to go for a few reasons, I think the subtect set is maybe the least healthy set because of how handily it bypasses all of dd’s checks and how stupidly good it is at freeze fishing, but after this I sincerely hope that Ausma’s calls for a Tera blast suspect end up coming true. That move genuinely provides nothing to the tier and only adds to the power of the types of Tera-abusing setup sweepers like Volcarona, Gouge and Kyurem, and the ever-controversial Kingambit. The only noteworthy case I can remember of a pokemon seriously using the move in a healthy way was the Tera blast ice on the old dlc2 hydrapple stall where Tera blast was a neat bonus on top of the defensive value of ice in that metagame. Not every Kyurem runs Tera blast, but it’s such a massive part of why the pokemon is so volatile.

[@harb1ng3r82]

As an addendum, I also think that Tera Blast directly breaks the idea of balance teams that can’t load up on redundant checks like a hard stall team, and the fact that you can’t safely and effectively counter the myriad of setup threats with balance has pushed the metagame towards the ho vs stall dichotomy since the beginning. There have been a few periods of stability, but every single one has been interrupted by the discovery of a new set on a setup mon, and like 70% of the time that discovery includes a shiny new way of abusing Tera blast

[@fulltimeslackerii8229]

How can Tera blast be broken when hidden power was not for multiple generations

[@trevorwendt6274]

@@fulltimeslackerii8229 Because tera blast is a lot stronger. 80 Base Power _ STAB 120 power, whereas Hidden Power was at most ever base 70 non-STAB coverage. Combine that with flipping your typing defensively, and you have what is basically Hidden Power on steroids.

[@auroraourania7161]

​@@trevorwendt6274also, hidden power in generations 2 and 3 was limited by The fact that there was no guarantee that the type you needed was going to go off a decent attacking stat, plus in general sweeping in those meta games is just a lot more challenging. In generation 4 onwards, hidden power was basically only relevant to special attackers, other than occasional use on Mons like landorus t that really wanted coverage and had decent enough special attack stats combined with aiming for a 4x weak Target. I think the clear reason is that hidden power was often not picking up ohkos on 4x weak bulky targets. There's also the fact that Tera changing your type is also inherently making your matchup spread change heavily, so terablast is on top of another thing. It would be like if hidden power came with a built-in resist berry for up to three different super effective types or something.

[@auroraourania7161]

I also want to chime in that I don't think losing Tera blast would be awful for lower tier meta games, which isn't something usually considered for OU bans, but imo it should be when banning moves and items (although hot take I don't think moves an items being banned should automatically be carried down to lower tiers like pokémon being banned do). I play UU and while there is only really a couple mons that ever run Tera blast, specifically thunderus t and keldeo, with keldeo only really being a niche pick anyway, and I don't really think the tier would lose anything from banning it.

[@dougdimmadomeownerof]

Kyurem has a defensive typing with many common weaknesses in the age of tera? lol

[@Mr_G_VGC]

I think we're genuinely at the point where someone needs to ask if Tera needs to be suspect tested

[@davidwaxter66]

It will be gone next gen anyways. The last thing they want to do is ban the gimmick from the gen

[@Clooger-]

Tera has been earth shattering since day 1. The problem is, it takes away from gen 9's identity if you remove it imo. Gen 9 is already a mess, you might as well have fun and leave it in

[@_Rhatsody]

@@Clooger- they did with gen 8 dynamax and it was just fine

[@Nako3]

@@_Rhatsody dynamax is awful tho

[@tizianoantonucci8545]

​@@_RhatsodyDyna was much more broken and enabled much more mons it was worse banning every mon that was broken because of dyna then to ban dyna itself

[@boop53]

sub protect kyurem is satan

[@KaysonVanOrman-ef4ku]

Day 4 of asking Joey to use a team built around T Spikes Corrosion and Venoshock

[@Spined1234]

They're gonna ban all of OU at this point.

[@HowlingOneify]

They’ll ban the broken. Maybe make an argument how something isn’t broken instead of whining “waa they’re banning everything”

[@Spined1234]

@@HowlingOneify It just seems like they ban a new mon every week. Why not just ban Tera? These mons are all becoming broken because of it.

[@waaaaaaah]

​@@Spined1234Well, ban every single viable Pokemon that can DD at least. Meta would be better if tera was gone, that is fact. On the other hand, gen 9 without tera just really doesn't bring much to the table ngl, I feel it'd just lose its identity without it

[@afvpegknight]

​​@@HowlingOneify except youve banned all the new good pokemon at this point. This is why smogon is a terrible community. Battling on master ball tier in official singles is far better. At least there you cant communicate with your opponents.

[@waaaaaaah]

​@@afvpegknight👌

[@Nako3]

Ya

[@ricoriley1321]

Its very unpredictable, just like greninja back in gen 6. It takes some scouting before you know its set. Not broken enough to be banned imo

[@waaaaaaah]

tbf the issue is 1 boost is usually enough for it to take a game, scouting gives kyurem too much time to go for the throat + you can scout the set and still be in the dark about its tera regardless

[@auroraourania7161]

I agree, scouting is only relevant when you can do so without risking instant loss.​@@waaaaaaah

[@2im36]

mixed sets w dragon dance literally have no switch in. freeze dry destroys dondozo.

[@BudgetDiety]

Kyurem prolly should be banned, it can win a game or swing it in one single click based on guessing what set it is. And Team structure doesn't honestly have that much bearing on it, so it's really easy to just take L's based on nothing other than a guess in a single turn. Even with all 6 mons available.

[@domar89-y2k]

i knew when fire got band he be next, roaring moon is next since smogon bands any thing that can sweep

[@justinmedeiros7600]

Yes, yes they should, next question

[@Seikuken]

Off topic but tbh I think Stamina should’ve been like speed boost raise your defense every turn

[@joelbill1112]

we would be so cooked if a mon got +1 def every turn 😅

[@Seikuken]

@@joelbill1112 oh I forgot cause archaludon got stamina 😭😭😭

[@waaaaaaah]

Every stamina mon banned to ubers instantly

[@iceicicle3046]

I really hope kyruem gets banned. Its definitely the most problematic pokemon in the tier right now after the gouging fire ban.

[@ericmaland5850]

kyurem is getting banned lmao

[@Gold_Gamer_100]

Yes, and it's not even close

[@WhamBam_TV]

They always be banning stuff a few months before the gen becomes irrelevant. What is even the point when in a few months everyone is playing the next game?

[@ChefBoyYeshua]

Maybe if it had Technician

[@patricksimmons8117]

I was cool with it until sub protect nonsense came onto the scene

[@Dunco64]

Would ferro be a good blanket check to most kyurem sets? Obviously they could tera fire but that's a huge commitment

[@HowlingOneify]

Not really. SubProtect easily stalls out Gyro Ball and nothing else it can run barring body press, which is a rather specific move, helps (and that still gets easily PP stalled).

[@waaaaaaah]

​@@HowlingOneifyferro coming back would be good for the tier regardless tho... Bring my man back gamefreak 😢

[@HowlingOneify]

@@waaaaaaah oh it definitely would and as a natdex main, it’s so great to have around.

[@Dominik-Schulze]

Day 2 of asking you to use Technican Shell Smash, Population Bomb, Power Trip Smeargle.

[@sovietslav7082]

They call Poke Kyurem the way he's ice cold

[@AlbertoSanchez-ps3kd]

Thank you for the content Joey

[@lesqueegee]

They should, but I hope they don’t I love kyurem

[@leonardobarbosatelles2779]

Yes they should

[@blairspace2274]

Yes

[@bradleyw1753]

If it still had roost I'd say it should be banned but at this point I don't agree it should be banned at all.

[@HowlingOneify]

Roost was a small part of what even broke it last gen and losing it has barely affected it. Its versatility was always the biggest issue and how it punished you for guessing its set wrong. This still happens this gen and it doesn’t have a lot of reliable consistent counter play.

[@Champeonic]

Why didn't you sucker on Venusaur in that last game?

[@misters6749]

Hey Joey! I want to say Day 26 of asking but I wasn’t able to comment yesterday. I took a critical hit and wasn’t able to comment. Do I have to start from scratch or can I continue?

[@plabcentral630]

So all I have to do is run banded bullet punch and not be bad? I’m in!

[@greattitan371]

The chance that it's tera electric/ground in the back and you lose on the spot as it DDs:

[@oscen335]

Maybe if scizor still had roost but bros switching in 3 times at max before kyurem just kills it

[@waaaaaaah]

What u gonna do when Kyurem tera electrics and DDs

[@waaaaaaah]

​@@oscen3353 times is usually more than enough to beat Kyurem if you're aggressive with it and it doesn't tera. AV gives u some more leeway with it too. Scizor still kinda below average overall though, I really don't recommend using it unless you really have to

[@sxphxn6224]

I personally think its good but i dont think its ban worthy

[@yonatangale1452]

Where is teras second suspect test?

[@Snagavitch]

The player base has decided they prefer unbalanced but unique gameplay unfortunately

[@yonatangale1452]

@@Snagavitch Just as in the world of bowel movements horrible diarrhea is unique.....smh......

[@bireland2012]

I think it’s too late to ban it. If it was going to get banned it should have been done within the first year.

[@Mepphy99]

tbh i think Kyurem should be banned if they banned Goug like Kyurem has way more different set and is annoying as hell compared to It so yeah, bye best bro

[@Juan_Gomes]

why did he use that healing wish on the first match?

[@walaceandrade4046]

Healing wish gets "Stored" until a non-full hp mon switchs in, which it then receives the healing wish.

[@Brainfly-]

Can we chill on the bans, hot damn 💀

[@greattitan371]

This is the 2nd suspect test in 3 months

[@chrisfacchiano7356]

Day 35 of asking for spite pressure roost idef bp bulky Corviknight

[@evougaming5605]

Good video

[@haxingsheep]

Just let kyurwm be

[@yab1754]

Its hard to build with it in ou so yea ban it

[@talmoshe3628]

I still dont understand why goug and kyurem get 2 suspect tests but ghold and gambit are still right there chillin.

[@lonewolf5945]

They did test gaming and it did not receive the votes but I do think they should test dengo

[@violebanshee]

Neither of these two are the problems they once were, meta has evolved and a plentiful amount of checks/counters have also arised

[@iceicicle3046]

Gambit and ghold are not problematic for the tier. If ghold goes the kyurem problem gets even worse

[@Snagavitch]

It’s because they aren’t an issue, gambit is arguable but it didn’t even get close to banned during its suspect

[@dontworryboutthat7863]

Forget those two, why is zama still in the tier, its brain dead af

[@dragonlord8525]

Day 23 of requesting solar blade gallade.

[@DarrellKareem-sz4cl]

Please dont ban him bros my only way of bypassing stall😭🙏

[@afvpegknight]

Don't battle on an unofficial simulator.

[@waaaaaaah]

Taunt, Ogerpon-W, Kingambit, Hoopa-U (this shit 6-0s stall if u play it right like oh my god, u only need Knock, Tbolt, Psychic Noise, Drain Punch, covers every single stall mon and their common teras), hazard stack + Knock Off, etc. All help with stall. Kyurem is actually really bad (relative to how it matches into other playstyles, it still murks a lot of shit even vs. Stall) into well-played stall so you should consider branching out regardless

[@IWestrada]

As stated, there are many more oppressive threats to stall. Kyurem is probably more annoying for balance.

[@sdl_abdu]

Hope they ban darkrai also

[@nstar6412]

YES YES OMG YES

[@adamriley9241]

Not banning the generational mechanic i can get bit there comes a point where "If it is the Mechanic (Terra) how different wouod the banlist be?" Not doing any bans because a new game is around the corner is what happened in BW2 leading into XY. Its not healthy and a very bad idea. I am for a Terra suspect test, unbann the not obviously busted pokemon and get another poll in a week or 2 after. I want the Wild West back.

[@winring5593]

Needs a ban, it’s busted.

[@jameswillcox610]

Goat

[@spencernash7505]

day 18 of requesting tera normal flame orb flareon :3

[@code_error_]

Day 20 of asking for physical walking wake

[@crazygreenyt849]

Hi

[@r3dpilgrim439]

Ban Tera

[@BananaR777]

Thats why Im thankful for terrastall, it gives pokemon like kyurem a second chances with a better type.

[@walaceandrade4046]

Second chance? That thing have been banned from OU last gen.

[@AmanoLorenzo]

day 5 of asking to make another short

[@Qwertyfied18]

ban this thing

[@cbass2238]

Fuck it, ban every Pokémon.

[@waaaaaaah]

Let's fucking gooo

[@A_Hardy_Lopunny]

You just gotta throw hands with the other trainer now.

[@_Rhatsody]

lord this is silly. and i knew it was tourney players whining about this

[@greattitan371]

All I've seen you do is hate and fail to understand what's happening in the meta

[@HowlingOneify]

Ah yes quality argument. “Oh those whiny tourney players want a balanced game and find something broken”.

[@gaster666_]

at this rate anything with good and fast offensive pressure will be banned

[@sovietslav7082]

All part of The Finchinator's stall propaganda, the "council" (secretly 96 Finches in a trenchcoat) won't stop until every game lasts 200 turns

[@iceicicle3046]

​@@sovietslav7082because kyurem is definitely amazing against stall and will not be permawalled by blissey till the end of time

[@justthatguynico]

@@iceicicle3046sub dd

[@cartercecy8254]

@@iceicicle3046lil bro has never heard of a mixed set

[@Snagavitch]

The tier built around valiant, darkrai and zamazenta is def gonna ban every fast offensive guy 😂

[@blockayethe2nd220]

Still nothing on gambit or zam tho lol

[@robbyw.8616]

5th

[@ilovedogs2642]

Where's it gonna go though? Ubers has two better versions of it so it'll get no use anywhere

[@HowlingOneify]

Oh well. That’s just how it happens sometimes. How a Mon does in the tier above is not the concern of the tier that it’s banned from

[@spand9043]

Lots of ubers mons are like that. Solgaleo basically has an evolution of it in the same tier. Hearthflame can't do anything in a tier run by dragons and ho-oh. 70% of Arceus forms are completely useless. Lots of mons are just never going to see the light of day in ubers, that's what ubers uu/ru is for

[@ilovedogs2642]

@@spand9043 there's an ubers ru now? Ubers uu has kyurem white, it's literally the exact same Mon with better stats

[@GreyLeo]

I dont play pokemon competitively anymore, this gen kinda ruined it for me. But I don't get why they keep banning everything. I think they should probably take a page from drafts and get rid of Usage stats and just allocate points to certain pokemon. That way they can still be used but you would be down a mon or so. Can build a nice team with 50 points. A mon that is super strong can be worth 15 points example Gauging Fire and a bad mon like Rampardos can be worth 2 points

[@johnpolsen]

They're banning everything because the current gen is ruining pokemon for people, and Smogon don't want to hit the real problem, terastalization. Also, Draft can't be the main format, because it has too much stuff added on top of the main game.

[@afvpegknight]

Just to let you know this isn't the pokemon community as a whole its a tiny vocal minority. The vast majority of the global pokemon community battles on the official games in the master ball tier.

[@waaaaaaah]

​@@afvpegknight👌

[@spand9043]

​@@afvpegknightthat tier is playable on showdown too

[@afvpegknight]

@@spand9043 why battle on a simulator when i have boxes of battle ready pokemon in the official games? And making competitive pokemon is super easy this gen with vitamins or ev training or mochi, mints and bottle caps. I can capture a good pokemon in a 5 star raid and turn it into a competitive pokemon easily.

[@aquitoda]

It shouldn’t just be better

[@Samuel99939]

Ban everything. No fun allowed

[@Pika_quest]

Twist this man's balls

[@waaaaaaah]

👌

[@spand9043]

Kyurem isn't fun to play with or play against though

[@k0hacuu]

17:05 why no sucker punch?

[@k0hacuu]

Oh I got gifted a member! ❤

[@afvpegknight]

Don't play on unofficial simulators battle on the official games. Ill never follow smogon rules.

[@waaaaaaah]

👌

[@IWestrada]

Have fun

[@spand9043]

The whole point of smogon is to make the unbalanced and uncompetetive official games more competetive, through rulesets. If you don't agree with having them, please leave the smogon community alone, stop shilling something we are here to actively avoid.

[@afvpegknight]

@@spand9043 enjoy your precious simulator being dmcaed by nintendo.

[@spand9043]

@@afvpegknight it's already cleared by Nintendo dumbass