This 1/10,000 drop could RUIN my account

[@FrayRS]

Thanks to Factor75 for sponsoring today's video. Use my link to get 50% off your first Factor box and 20% off your next month of orders! strms.net/factor75_frayrs - Promo Code: FRAYMAY50

[@TheShineyT]

You mentioned trying the meals and how convenient they are, but having checked the link after considering giving it a go, they don't deliver to the uk which im pretty sure is where you said you are based. Am I missing something and there is a Uk version somewhere, or you just saying it cos the ad asked you to?

[@RickRokner]

Your solution to pvp and the wilderness. Move pvp strictly to bounty hunter, it's what it is there for. Pking and making free money for being in danger.

[@adrianamundsen6939]

thanks sir fraybow the first

[@FrayRS]

​@@TheShineyT HelloFresh owns Factor and I use HF all the time

[@Andrewemmacirlo]

Sudzf😂😂❤I have nd😂2Dwd

[@tomc.5704]

I think ultimately, the problem with PKers vs PVM is that it's not really fair. It's onesided. Especially at Vet'ion, you either instantly hop worlds, or you die. At least in the rev caves, there was a chance to outplay them. You could engage with it, you could get lucky, you could show skill. You had a lot of fun when you could outplay and escape. But that's the key - there was an opportunity to outplay them. If the whole engagement is "If you get caught, you die" then it's not fun. But let's be real - you can't fight back. You don't even want to fight back. Your only goal is to escape. And their only goal is to kill you. And when that relationship becomes too simple, when there's nothing to engage with -- it becomes unfun. I'd argue the big culprits are running vs freezes, teleporting vs teleblock --- those aren't particularly interesting interactions, but they define the vast majority of encounters. There's no skill in whether you get frozen or not. You can't juke a freeze, or interrupt a channeled ability. That's just a limit of the game.

[@tomc.5704]

But for real -- when they log in at a time when you can't hop, they freeze you and you can't run --- you just die. You have no chance, no agency, nothing to engage with. That's when it's all frustration and no fun.

[@janimutanen1465]

They really should add some sort consumable antifreeze to the game to eaven out the playing field.

[@oBCHANo]

Lets be real, the games combat is already bad, but PvP? It's laughable that Jagex think they can make RS PvP a thing, movement is laggy, the tick system is terrible, it's mostly just RNG, etc. Personally I've just refused to interact with it and use a plugin to auto-log and insta tele when a PK'er shows up, that's how bad it is. PK'ers are genuinely pathetic freaks that literally just play the game to ruin other peoples gameplay as actual PvP'ers aren't PK'ing at PvM content.

[@CottidaeSEA]

Freezing should lock the caster in place for one or two ticks when casting and there should be diminishing returns on the immobilize effect that are quite significant. If someone can tank a few freezes then they should be rewarded with immunity for a while.

[@CottidaeSEA]

​@@oBCHANoI think RS3 PvP is pretty cool, but holy shit, you get nuked even harder than in OSRS which is insane. The depth of the combat system is neat though, I just wish people didn't hit you for 90% of your max health in a single hit. They come from outside your range, smack you once real good and then just throw a basic ability in your general direction and you're gone. Both versions have the same power creep problem, really.

[@James-vc1kc]

9:45 this is my biggest gripe with BOTH gamemodes in general. OSRS devs continue to pump out wilderness content that targets PvPers against non-PvPers when they could very easily turn PvPers against each other. RS3 devs on the other hand gave up and allowed people to opt-in or out of pvp lmao

[@BlowGlass]

What content do you suggest to turn pvpers away from pvmers and back towards eachother? From my perspective the idea they were going for with Wildy PVM was high risk, high reward which is what it currently is. If there was no risk of getting pked there's no reason for wildy content to be as good of a money maker as it is. I just don't know of a way that what you're talking about could be achieved, but I'd love to hear it. If we had the option to opt out of pvp then they would have to heavily nerf wildy content, which I'm sure would be met with a lot of mixed opinions.

[@CottidaeSEA]

​@@BlowGlassI think just reducing resource drops to a quarter if playing non-PvP seems fair. I think unique rates shouldn't be changed, but ether for revenant weapons should be reduced for example. As for making something actual PvP, there needs to be some incentive to do it, but as things are it's just infested with RMT and other such nonsense.

[@drpepper1132]

@@CottidaeSEA Bosses should not be dropping skilling resources anyway. Why have skilling even be an option if you could just go do a boss and get loads more than you could just skilling. Thats one thing the Rs3 devs did right was getting rid of a lot of resource drops from bosses.

[@CottidaeSEA]

@@drpepper1132 Yeah, but that's a much bigger change and would be a long term solution. RS3 is much better in many ways.

[@brothabuzz]

In regards to your pvpers killing pvmers comment, the people who find fighting pvpers fun are not the ones killing you. The ones killing you are the ones who find killing pvmers fun. In my experience, the people killing you tend to run away from other pvpers. The wilderness originally was an area where each party was incentivized to fight each other because there was literally nothing else to do in the wilderness in 2007. Sure, you can go kill Chaos Ele for D2H. Or maybe you want to run to the abyss to runecraft. But you could also just use the regular rc altars. Other than Chaos Ele, there was no exclusive content in the wild. The main purpose for going there was to fight other people. As time goes on, people started complaining that "pvp is dead" because everyone wants to the new pvm content to make money. The problem is that they started adding pvm content into an area that wasn't made for pvm. So Jagex did a "wilderness rejuvenation" which was a bandaid solution of putting insane moneymakers in the wilderness. Pvp is still "dead", because pvpers killing pvmers isn't the pvp that people remember from 2007. It's just attacking people who don't fight back. If you pvp, that should be for fun, not for consistent gp. Pvp had always been about "I'm better at this than you", not "This needs to compete with x moneymaking method". Jagex forced the wilderness to be a huge part of the game in order to cater to a certain audience.

[@Eziuxxx13]

Great comment.

[@Pokemarquet]

Tanking pkers is an interesting skill in the game and having an arena to better your skills just helps the overall game. I'm sure more pvmers over the years of wildy rejuvenation has inspired players to expand their gameplay into pvp. Their approach is ingenuis and actually betters their product. If wildy was the #1 money maker I'd understand that it would force the community to be more at odds against each other but pvmers have much more oppurtunity grinding many differenct facets of content for better rewards. If you are bad at the game wilderness is probably your best money maker which is fair because easy gp should come at cost for a good echo system. As for irons you chose the gamemode you are playing. You don't have to get a voidwaker to progress your account. There are so many other spec weapons I don't even have to list them as you can think of other options. If you are completionist, Wildy content makes up a very small portion of over all content in the game It might be better to think of the Wilderness as it's own minigame. You don't have to do it for progression, but it helps speed up gp goals. People can attack you and you can chose to fight back or run away. It's unique and it adds a layer to the onion that is runescape

[@BrendanCardenas]

"Jagex forced the wilderness to be a huge part of the game in order to cater to a certain audience." I'm not a PK'er but what's wrong with Jagex trying to make the game fun for as many different types of players as possible? You think they don't design quests/pvm rewards with the Ironmen audience in mind? It's a sandbox MMO -- no one is forced to go into the wilderness. People WANT wildy upgrades from the wilderness's EASY bosses, but don't understand the bosses are only allowed to be so easy because getting PK'd is essentially a boss mechanic.

[@brothabuzz]

I think that tanking PKers is a great skill like you mentioned. Feel free to bring your dihn’s bulwark, torags and veracs to Vetion in addition to your chainmace, ether, and other offensive gear that’s gives dps on kill the boss. Now you’re risking even more than before. The pkers killing people in the wilderness generally have very low risk. More-so in multi where they have teammates because it doesn’t matter how bad your gear is if you have 2 friends also attacking.

[@brothabuzz]

@@BrendanCardenas I understand where you’re coming from. The point that we’re trying to make is that nothing’s wrong with making the game fun for as many people as possible. I 100% agree with you. The issue is that people are trying to have fun by killing the boss. Getting killed by another player when your goal is to kill a boss isn’t really fun for most people. Imagine you’re doing CoX and your teammate intentionally starts trying to make you die. Is that fun when you’re there to kill the boss? Some people do enjoy tanking and anti-pking. But the majority of people bossing in the wild are not there to have fun via pvp. You’ll find people who like pvp doing things like “pvp only ironmen” or in bounty hunter, or in pvp worlds. By putting exclusive content in the wilderness (pets, combat achievements, etc), you are effectively forcing people to engage in pvp. I’m not sure of any other non-pvp focused mmo (osrs is not a pvp focused mmo) that forces people to engage in pvp content in order to progress their character.

[@neodemonhawk]

LMS, PVP Arena, PvP worlds, High Risk worlds, bounty hunter, permanent deadman mode. They've done things to encourage actual PvP combat. There's just a large group of pkers who are solely interested in the easy money of killing people who aren't trying to engage in PvP.

[@squigs1500]

>people who aren't trying to engage in PvP But went to the purely-optional, singular PvP area in the entirety of the game?

[@blacksquirtle9119]

True …

[@neodemonhawk]

@@squigs1500 A) Not singular. See the list you replied to B) Only optional if you want to completely ignore the clues, collection logs, combat achievements, unique resources and drops. None of which are tied to participating in PvP. C) You're exposing yourself here and we all know it

[@celtich]

​@@squigs1500 so you are one of those assholes killing people just trying to complete a clue scroll got it 🙄

[@squigs1500]

@@neodemonhawk A) All I see are instanced minigames and separate worlds. Where's the other PvP area of the map? B) Going to the PvP area of the game is inherently agreeing to possible PvP participation. C) Your complaining about people playing the game as its clearly designed to be played is all that's been exposed here.

[@Eloquence00]

I think a lot of pkers actually see pking as a money making method rather than something they do for actual fun. Since so many people in the wildy are doing it for money at things like Revs, pirates, wildy bosses, etc there is a lot of free loot to be had there. Those pkers are coming into the wildy in rag gear like Mystics/salad robes and black/mixed hide. They might not be having a ton of fun but they probably see it as more interesting than killing fever spiders or something for money. This is largely what the wildy updates have been geared towards as well. By introducing people to pking via baby-activities like chaos alter pking or the rogues chest it makes the wildy a lot more active. You get a lot of bad pkers too which incentivizes bringing in a tiny bit of gear to try and anti-pk them if you are even remotely capable of pking. The new hunters crossbow with moonlight bolts is better than a MSB(i), the new mixed hide has a great strength bonus and is basically free, mystics/salad robes are cheap as hell, the spell sacks make it easy to bring in freezes, etc. For very low-cost you can bring a very solid tri-brid setup that can effectively do things like revs, zombie pirates, black chins, wildy bosses, etc. People (not you, just many osrs players in general) are very fixated on the idea that pkers are predators and that they are prey, and the wildy updates have been largely an attempt to make people start acting like predators themselves. This has had mixed results, but I think the high amount of low-skill pkers in the wildy these days is actually symbolic of a success imo.

[@NecrosAcolyte]

Pking should be heavily disincentivized and even punished, if Jagex wants a healthy playerbase instead of toxic nonsense. They are genuinely the worst sort of person.

[@ronniefid4988]

@@NecrosAcolyte Sounds like you are a pretty terrible person yourself... You a pker?

[@SadClaps]

You assume pkers want to fight other pkers, but they don't, they just want their pinatas.

[@andrewp9208]

Just a heads up in case you didn’t know, hitting the logout button is 1 tick faster than the world hop function

[@Mason-lr5dz]

31:20 "tossweasel" is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the most British insult I have ever heard

[@SACRUM_VOTUM]

I personally prefer "pissweasel"

[@bethmoonfang3577]

Guys, guys... what's bothering Fray here isn't even the loss of Vet'ion loot; it's the loss of revenent ether. And this is from a guy who's grinded revs for 5 months and is only trying to green log one boss. That actually IS unsustainable. My proposed solution: an ether trader that functions exactly the same as the emblem trader. You give him gp, he gives you ether. If this winds up being slightly profitable, it's perfect. Mains can go in for a chance at quick buck, ironmen can stop feeling scammed by their hard-earned rev weapon, and PKers will have just that many more targets to hunt down. win-win-win

[@FirstNumber1]

He should use another weapon than

[@HeavyMetalGamingHD]

@@FirstNumber1 what weapon?

[@FirstNumber1]

@@HeavyMetalGamingHD that one that hits monsters and that maybe has a spec bar

[@HeavyMetalGamingHD]

@@FirstNumber1 dragon daggers are the only real spec weapon he seems to have. that's so much less dps than with a rev weapon. grinding out ether and using the chainmace is much faster per kill. the DD is worse than a rune scim as a weapon

[@elianas1121]

There are three* types of PVMer in Wildy: irons who can’t get their uniques any other way, bots, and real people who are willing to put up with PVPers killing them for the hourly income. I’m not sure that third kind actually exists.

[@ragnose1]

16:00 the biggest problem with this idea is that botters can abuse it. Its basically bounty hunter that your describing, and we all remember how bad that was for the economy... they lose no matter what

[@Br0ken_Rob0ts]

What if it was death safe? Like you got points but like castle wars bring your own gear. Should remove incentive for looting but base points based on something mechanical

[@ragnose1]

@@Br0ken_Rob0ts if its not worth enough that every zone is patroled, there will be bots who are designed to just to hide and sit there and run away as best they can. If it is worth the players time, it will reward pvp bots that are maximized. Theres tons of bots already that some fo the best PVPers cant beat due to tick perfect reactions. no matter what, the problem comes back to bots....

[@EwItsMike]

Not entirely sure since I haven't tested anything whatsoever, but there appear to be some strange interactions with so-called "overkill damage" in the game (Eclipse Moon on release being one of them). The dual macuahuitl dealing overkill damage might be the reason why Vetion died after its first phase at ~ 1:04:00

[@dylanwright9927]

“Don’t go to Wildy then baby” “Jagex please fix wildy pvp is dying”

[@mikkel9840]

Literally no PKer says this. Wildy is fine, regardless of how much PvMers are whining.

[@SwogFrog]

@@mikkel9840 That's so untrue lmao I've read like 3 or 4 separate reddit threads (never commented in them) where half the people commenting are pkers who are basically saying exactly this

[@MT-gj6lh]

Went from losing your job to becoming a full time streamer/youtuber. I’m so happy for you brother. Grats from America!

[@pennykie4796]

2:44 Fray entering his boomer humour era

[@Thepiggypwnr]

At its core pvp isnt popular in general in 90% of game with both pvp and pvm. As for your idea with the loot zone, in practice with other similar things being done before it just gets abused by a clan taking up each world and just police the zone , or gold sellers pay a pvp clan irl money to guard them for more rmt. 99% of normal players would never be able to use a loot zone like that.

[@Nickonil]

they should just add the "opt out of pvp" as a option, when you; "lock-in to be ironman forever" problem solved because when your iron man you cant trade

[@anthonyhawk8917]

So then people will make bots and have nothing to worry about and they can just drop trade 100% of the profits 100% of the time. That sounds logical

[@rossallen738]

I feel like the easiest fix to the wilderness pvp would be to get rid of teleblock and not limit teleporting in any part of the wilderness. If someone can spec me out completely while I do pvm, thats fine i guess, but if I want to leave, I should be able to leave. I also find it extremely frustrating that the bots at revenants are so difficult to kill so pkers target real people instead.

[@Slothptimal]

Killing Undead Zombies for consistent 10-20k drops is no risk, repetitive, and should be boring, yet you see players doing it nonstop. No challenge, no repercussions, just easy farming that pays decently. This is an accepted mentality - same principle applies to Slayer. Just opposed when you're the Slayer monster being farmed for drops.

[@TourFaint]

Fray: omg the bots are terrible in this area! Also Fray: There should be an area where you get gp for just existing.

[@numbgod5565]

For real, Fray must have just had a lobotomy appointment before that monologue

[@hannasmage]

I was waiting for this episode. Was looking today. And here you are. FINALLY

[@ynybody1382]

I think the biggest part of the problem that no one really mentions is that the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't find pvp fun. I don't think most pvpers find pvp fun either - they're interested in outnumbering or outgearing people who are otherwise occupied and won't/can't fight back. There's a select few people who genuinely want to fight other people (you can see this when watching pvp steamers, they tend to know who's alt it is when they're fighting pures - because there's so few people who enjoy pvp enough to make a pure that they all know each other. "Fair" pvp content will never be widely popular without a major pvp rework. "Unfair" pvp might piss off the PvMers, but for most people, they can opt out by not ever going to the wilderness, or run gear that risks nothing (so the only risk is time) to minimize the "level-of-pissed-offness". So it makes sense from a design perspective why the wilderness exists, and is the way it is, if you want to have open world pvp. I think this leads to another question, which is why most people find osrs pvp undesirable. I think that's due to the high skill ceiling combined with the amount of risk you will lose improving at it. If you're a new player, how do you beat someone like Torvesta? First, you need to max an accounts combat stats, get all of the untradeable uniques that are useful to pvp, gather billions of gp to buy several sets of gear, and then try to pk players better than you, fail over and over, and maybe after a few years you start to win more than lose. That's... generally unattractive to most people. It's an extremely time intensive process for a reward that might not even exist. And that's the problem you have to solve if you don't want the wilderness to be hunting down PvMers who don't want to participate.

[@Mr1986anthony]

dude's getting the biggest dopamine rush in the world when he escapes and doesn't think the one hunting is having any fun

[@FrayRS]

Best comment ever actually - only reply I've read that actually gives a peek into the Pker mindset 🤣

[@rokasdziautas1396]

Theres no update that will force pk'rs just fight pk'rs. There will always be some shitters who are afraid to fight other pk'rs, therefore they look for someone to kill who won't fight back.

[@HeavyMetalGamingHD]

there is, if you make pvp opt in. they did it in rs3 and it worked well.

[@duncathan_salt]

Always remember: you only have a 63% chance to find a drop "on rate". At twice the rate, it's 86%; at triple the rate, it's 95%.

[@The_3_6_9]

Turn on the "Auto-Equip items on death" thing from the normal rs settings, will make death that much convenient.

[@joelsulc5997]

" cya dickhead!" Genuinely, the pure joy and smack talk are like 90% of the reason i am binging your series :D

[@Soren_Pedersen]

If they polled removing wilderness pvp, it would pass 100% Especially for ironman mode, which is supposed to be a single player mode.

[@drpepper1132]

Yep, Ironmen, who play single player should not be forced into the wild to get uniques, But the small yet vocal "pvp community" is the only community jagex listens to. The pvp community and polling system will be the death of this game.

[@jackkuehner]

Pkers dont want to kill Pkers, they want free loot. That's the issue

[@jakeoshay]

They are used to picking on pve people so when most of them get caught by someone actually decent they tend to lose 😂

[@andymcevoy3109]

@@jakeoshayoh nooo some people are better at the game I play pvp for fun in So?

[@Frommerman]

Yep. They're pathetic, misanthropic bullies. They should be booted out of the community entirely, not catered to.

[@kylbarry4466]

Especially when the game doesn't give incentive for them tl fight other players because unless they kill more than they die they lose money on supplies or break even and it's not worth their time.

[@tacotacotington3638]

Why do pvmers do easy monsters that drop a lot of gp? They want free loot. There is no difference. Some people like raids, more engaging and more loot. Some people like to tribrid 1v1 because its more engaging and more loot. Different players enjoy different things. Nobody is being forced at any time to participate.

[@Nessa.2000]

I think a better solve for pvm in wilderness is to just keep all wilderness bosses with collection log slots lower gp/h like the other wildy bosses and let wilderness weapons keep ether. It wouldent hurt to much getting pked and also would keep more pkrs at lms or bh. They could also add some more gp heavy bosses with no collection slots where it would be more main vs main fighting

[@Rossy-u3o]

*escapes PK’r* IM JUST BUILT DIFFERENT! I almost cried laughing haha😂

[@doctorarden5741]

“Creates a frustrating gameplay loop where everyone is at odds with one another” … sounds like what the wildy is supposed to be

[@Synchronised01]

The idea you have for people standing about making money in a certain section of the wildy will just end up with a protection racket similar to how revs used to be on total level worlds.

[@FrayRS]

I agree, but the Revs protection rackets only worked because they protected like 3 worlds, making it too much agg to go in and take them when you could easily just go to another one of 100+ worlds. The protection rackets don't work so well if there ARE only 3 worlds. Suddenly the upside is high enough that big alliances can form to try and take the world's

[@Synchronised01]

@@FrayRS yeah that's a fair point. Tbh I actually loved the revs protection racket. I never used their services to to revs but PvPing there was so much fun. Bringing rag gear and going with a clan to fight a bunch of people also in rag gear was a good time

[@kylechmn28]

The main issue I see that jagex would have with that system is the amount of gp that would be brought into the game, therefore flooding the economy with way more gold than there needs to be. I think a large amount of blighted supplies or something would be a lot more fitting or something like that, as it doesn't really affect the economy that much as they're all consumable items which are deleted from the game once consumed

[@alexwells3031]

One of the few people I have heard describe well how stupid Jagexs mindset towards the wilderness is. Pvm/Skilling are an awfully stupid way to stimulate a flow of NON PVP ORIENTED PLAYERS into an area for pvp

[@emuhast]

It's definitely not stupid. In fact, I'd say the wilderness is pretty balanced: - Easy bosses with some moderately good loot (most of the good loot is also wilderness related, like blighted stuff), and a good drop that is useful mostly for PvP (voidwaker). - PvMers are incentivized to go to get the drops I mentioned. These drops are definitely not essential, so you agree to the risk of wildly, and don't feel forced to do it (unlike some other content, which you feel forced to do) - PvPers are incentivized to go there to kill other PvPers (fun for them), but also, since the wildy is not very active with PKers, they can get some "free money" by killing PvMers (which is totally fair. the PKer is skulling up to kill you, and you're losing nothing in gear, and next to nothing in supplies. The PKer being there is a ton of risk, so I think it's fair for them to get some easy money)

[@brothabuzz]

@@emuhast see, the thing is if you were to kill the average pker that gets on you, you’d actually get less loot from them than they’d get from you. They’re all 1 iteming in salad robes and black d hide. So the vast majority of them actually aren’t risking anything. A simple 2x dragon plateskirt drop combined with rev ether you’d lose on death would be worth more than the loot from antipking the average pker in an average setup

[@emuhast]

@@brothabuzz Yeah. The average PKer using salad robes and 1 iteming is also not killing you (at least they shouldn't, if you know how to escape them). Even so, the PKer is risking all of his items except 1. You are risking ether and a 2 kills worth of supply drops. It 100% makes sense. Don't get me wrong, I also hate being attacked by pkers (I dont do any pvp), but Fray's take is dumb

[@brothabuzz]

@@emuhast his suggestion on changes is definitely not good. But I understand his perspective of forcing people to engage in a fight where they just want to pvm. In majority of cases, it’s not just 2 kills worth of loot on you. And also, in his specific case, though, not everywhere in the wilderness, there are multiple guys in salad robes / d hide. That is enough to kill you.

[@emuhast]

@@brothabuzz The only reason he *needs* to stay in the wildy is because of his own account choices. You don't have to be in the wilderness ever. In fact, many hardcores never cross the ditch, and can have the same account progression. Also, he's choosing to kill the multi version cause it's less hours. He could totally be doing Calvarion and escape every time. The rings arent worth shit. Rev weapons are good, but if you don't plan on staying in wildy, you absolutely don't need them. If you really want the voidwaker (hardly a necessity, mostly an anti-PK weapon), killing some very easy bosses, it makes sense that you are going to be hunted.

[@senken12]

The vetion death bug is probably due to the double hit splats of the Macuahuitl

[@benbrown3862]

back on the wildy pvp chat, There could be a system implemented on certain worlds where they utilise relics for pvp and/or pvm so you pvm as well on those worlds to get those relics. relics would be rewarded by doing certain tasks (time based, objective based ..etc) to spice up pvp in those worlds

[@BeastFormal]

If I could request that you take a pole on removing the intense music during PK encounters, I think a lot of people would rather not have it. It doesn’t add much, and it gets repetitive after a few dozen times. Loving the series, I have binged it since episode one. Good luck with the grind!

[@imjodanc]

Always glad to have more episodes of this series

[@Slothptimal]

A controlled arena where things are more fair - Jagex sells you a premade loadout that only works in the arena. Different tiers available - bring back the old coloured skulls. When you leave, your inventory blanks. When you enter, you get everything refreshed - no supply cost. Killing a player gives you the exact value of the loadout - these should be 500k, 2.5m, 10m loadouts, so a PK is just the exact 500k/2.5m/10m cash the person paid for the loadout.

[@genghisdingus]

12:00 Imagine a King Of The Hill sort of game mode where standing in a particular area gives a reward currency. But for every person in that area, the money is split among them. Also, killing someone in that area rewards you that person's currency. There could also be a safe version where you don't lose your items but get less reward points. Jagex would obviously have to either put high requirements or make the rewards cosmetic/non-tradable.

[@HeavyMetalGamingHD]

the issue is, that this just screams botting.

[@drpepper1132]

Look up the 76k trick, this already existed.

[@stephaniet9875]

Forced pvp suuuuuucks, cant even do the cooking gauntlets quest without wildy

[@BlowGlass]

if you keep your eyes on the screen you can always log out instantly as soon as you see someone.

[@stephaniet9875]

@@BlowGlass not with my shitty australian internet

[@Captain_Willlow]

Might be a slightly unpopular opinion but I actually like doing pvm bossing in the wildy because it's in the wildy. The fact that someone could come kill me at any time makes it way more exciting and enjoyable imo, especially given the wildy bosses are rather simple as bossing is concerned.

[@kevindamon9051]

not everyone enjoys wasting time

[@Captain_Willlow]

@@kevindamon9051 Then don't go into the wildy :)

[@ianatkinson5509]

Lovely video mate. Glad to see you gaining so many subs and traction around the account/series

[@zachkh]

The majority of PVPers left the game and aren’t coming back. No amount tweaking will change that

[@XJivCX]

LOVE THESE AS ALWAYS!!! You are just the GOAT of modern osrs videos for me, hearing about your iron getting hacked for 7B was heartbreaking:( But I'm glad you are doing so well on the WIldy Chunk!!

[@Viceru78]

So funny to see the "behind the scenes" from the streams and the eventual video

[@AstroPopper]

Crying about the wilderness is objectively hilarious

[@kNowsSight]

Sorry but your 2nd idea for pvp worlds is insanely broken. The fact that people standing there will get loot without doing anything will just incentivize a bunch of rag bots to pile anyone not in their script/ecosystem. First idea has been suggested a few times but people just downvote it to hell because "just dont go wildy" or "why should the game cater to ironmen" geniuses like to spam their 2 liner to whatever ideas they dont like.

[@killinit6265]

The reason people say that is because it's true? This is runescape. Yes, this system isn't really in any other game, but that's the point. This game is unique in many ways and the wilderness is part of the game. If you don't like it don't go. Also, don't take rev weapons if you don't want to lose the ether.

[@TheDamiensprinkle]

Rs3 has 0 bots osrs could just solve the bot problem lol

[@eldenflame7877]

@@killinit6265 You get pked by shit pkers regardless weather you take your rev weapon or not, so you might aswell bring the rev weap to get a decent kc/h

[@pikapowns]

​@@killinit6265 no the real point is that fray misunderstanding pkers. He is just falsely assuming that pkers want combat. They just want other people to not have fun that's how they have fun. Everything else he said was right though it forces the existence of essentially two groups that are against each other. People who want to do PvE content and people who want to hunt them. The third group of people who want to hunt other pkers are so small they basically don't exist. In my opinion I think Pvp sucks but if they want to keep it fine. Just stop adding necessary PvE to it.

[@brothabuzz]

Standing there doing nothing and getting money is a bad idea like you said. But Fray is 100% right when he says that one person involved in the fight doesn't want to be there. The alternative option is to "not go to the wilderness", but that's not a fair statement when you force certain items (voidwaker, rings, etc) to be obtained there. You're just forcing people to deal with pvp in a game that was built upon pvm and skilling.

[@sadjad5326]

I think the issue isn't that Jagex is unwilling to think about solutions that aren't predator vs. prey, I think it's that it is incredibly hard and maybe just impossible to create a solution that won't instantaneously be abused by bad actors. In the example you gave of having a small number of zones that generate gp for being in them for longer periods of time, they would either not be incentivizing enough to draw people in or be too incentivizing and result in clans just locking them down and making it impossible for solo players/smaller teams to compete. I definitely agree that the solutions they have been trying feel terrible, especially for irons but also for a lot of mains who just want to pvm.

[@kylbarry4466]

Disagree with how u think they couldnt make it work. Just have it be singles with certain leaving or teleport restrictions you also have the ability to require certain amount of risk to be eligible or time spent in the area before being eligible etc. It 100% can work.

[@HeavyMetalGamingHD]

the very same company found a solution. they made it opt in in rs3 and it revitalized the wildy. before the change almost nobody ever went to the wildy in rs3. The same would be true for OSRS if they didn't add so much pvm content to the wildy

[@BB-nw7uc]

The PvP players are doing the same thing you are, farming an easy kill. They are having as much fun as you are killing vet. It’s not always about challenge, it’s about effective gold making methods.

[@CreativeExcusesGaming]

A king of the hill style pvp idea in the wilderness is super interesting. Figuring out how to prevent bots from doing it sounds tough, but doable.

[@Powermusic_2]

Regarding pvp I love the way they did it in RS3, where you opt in and opt out of pvp. If you're in pvp, you are skulled, and you get some bonuses, like extra agiltiy xp, extra runecrafting xp and more, meanwhile if you're not opted in then you are free to do as you please in the wilderness without being bothered by pkers.

[@whitestormin]

‏‪12:04‬‏ i think the problem is that we (ironmans) share the same worlds and rules as them (mains). ironman has nothing to do with pk for money, and mains do it mostly for money.

[@johnsmith9784]

Yeah, honestly they could fix the wildly pretty easy by making non pvp worlds with much lower drop rates. Like 1/4 drops so the bosses and revs aren’t that profitable and getting uniques is difficult, but the frustration would be gone.

[@buzz1ebee]

Yeah some ironman only worlds could work. Though then you would have ironman alts PKing and dropping their loot to their mains. I swear half these PKers are just bots though. It's hard to keep them out of the game in time to not affect real players without creating ban resistant bots.

[@whitestormin]

@@buzz1ebee i have no problem with this. if someone grinded his a$$ off to get the skills, and than grinded for another couple hundred of hours for the setup to pk me, it is ok with me. it will not be a bot. it will not be some $hit that trained only on crabs and got easy money and setup in the GE. i would probably hate it. but i will hate not even half of what i hate now.

[@lewisgray1453]

You have the mod that hides your world but in the chat it says quick hopping to ….?

[@burkedigital]

As someone who's newer to the game and doesn't want anything to do with Wilderness PvP, it's funny listening to Fray's impassioned (and understandable) frustration, then his absolute elation in clutch escape moments just a few minutes later.

[@essanbessan334]

The curse of canifischunk, you will only spoon useless items lol

[@silverfin198]

Imagine if fray would stop "taking the fucking piss" and just get the drops 🤣

[@NotaBot-Mac]

They used to have a similar wilderness bounty hunter similar to what you are describing, it was a long time ago though and i dont remember why it failed. it was a circle area and the longer you stayed there the skull above your head changed colors.

[@jdraco1687]

I did the wilderness diaries and go to the wilderness for some clue steps. Other than that there's no way I wanna waste gp/time in the wilderness. Waste of content in my opinion

[@mishaberendsen]

Pro tip for the ladder: go out without gear. Change left click to go up and shift click to go down! So much easier and faster!

[@laksjdfization]

I agree with you about the pking, it’s one of the things I liked about pking pre-eoc.. the skilling gloves and other non-pk related items/bonuses you could get made people want to pk to atleast try and not just chalk it up… and they didn’t provide massive bonuses so it wasn’t OP af, bringing something like that so Pvmers would want to participate even if they’re not constantly killing people would be a good option to bring back. But Jagex doesn’t give a crap about pvp on OSRS

[@FirstNumber1]

16:14 Your opinion is crazy dude If you don't want wilderness to be wild, play RS3... They did that and ruined the game

[@alexdroptin7940]

The moment at around 9 minutes is why Wilderness chunks are absolute hell.

[@cameronclark3418]

Opt in pvp has been huge on rs3, finally explored wildy content that I never bothered with after loosing dual ascensions when they were still worth something

[@runeritari3]

another banger episode. THo took a while come back. Also i do think its a bit hot take for go worlds where no wilderness freee areas (beacuse of bots) and it shouldnt work that wilderness would be risk free at any point. We pvmers do consent them coming after us by going wilderness to farm but we also have opportunity anti-pk them (excecpt chunkmen or restricted accounts).WIlderness purpose is have high risk high reward which poisonedpotion makes a good suggestions how to better wilderness activity, tho I do agree that there should be way to discourage pkers come to those areas (which mostly happens on calvarion etc) like they should not make players lose ether on death or atleast keep half of charges so you dont need re-activate weapons everytime with 500k worth of ether. So they would think will it be worth to go after pvmers/skillers who are in wilderness. That being said: There definetly should be areas that encourages pkers go after other pkers more often than going after skillers or pvmers. Bounty Hunter is already attempt to that but some pkers just loves go after pvmers in general for some juicy loot chanses.

[@TheLostSoul0]

The Elder Scrolls Online has a rather toxic PvP/PvE interaction as well, where they've put quests and other PvE activities in PvP zones. Truth be told, I didn't mind this--I actually liked the element of danger--but then they turned some of these quest hubs into PvP objectives as well, making them very obnoxious. The worst is when they have special events with PvE objectives set in the PvP zones, and you get all the lowlifes coming out to camp those objectives and farm the questers... You claim that it must not be fun for the PKers to kill PvMers--and I used to think that way about ESO's system as well. But I think we're wrong. I think it IS fun for these people, because it gives them an ego boost, makes them feel better about themselves. We can speculate on which kinds of people actually derive pleasure from such a thing, but then they'd just come along and try to gaslight us: "It's just part of the game, man; you're in a PvP zone, it's what we do here; don't want to get killed, go somewhere else." 🙄

[@dovenart7546]

It's always a good day when Fray drops a new video.

[@tobyadams8478]

Problem sounds like you've stepped over the wilderness ditch without your eyeballs connected to your brain :)

[@patrickmager9218]

10 minute rant into death l0l

[@NoroGW2]

pvp is supposed to stand for player vs player, not predator vs prey. designing a system where some players are prey is shit design

[@HeavyMetalGamingHD]

Wilderness pvp is opt in in rs3 and that was imo one of the best updates. they added a danger meter, that can trigger events, that still make the wilderness very dangerous, but you don't get constantly griefed.

[@TheMrWille]

It has been long two weeks waiting for a new video lol. Absolutely top OSRS content!

[@Kaufecake]

Chunks are 64x64, for a total of 4,096 tiles - not 150x150 for 22.5k tiles.

[@Kaufecake]

Google is wrong btw.

[@21ps3freak]

To solve the pking at wildy bosses, they should make a fee come out of the bank when they attack a player at the bosses that is absurdly high like 100m that gets dropped if they die. That way there's incentive to defend yourself against an attacker in those places and a much larger risk for pking in the undesirable places for getting pked

[@KarmaMiracles]

There is an issue, the pvmer has risk to lose the pvper has nothing to lose, there needs to be an element of risk on BOTH sides. Maybe like the witcher bovine king, if you skull on a player a special monster spawns that tries to kill you, or an announcement is made in that worlds wildy so other pvpers can find you, like old bounty hunter where they cant leave wildy for 5 mins or something. Or set up an elden ring system, pvmer can wear a special ring that notified a someone who wants to anti pk. Final suggestion, have a payment bracket, pkers can only get loot equal to what they are risking, stops the black d hide 70k raggers. And like I said, it puts some risk back.

[@helpfultomcruise2233]

I used to be huge into pvp in world of warcraft. Grinding unranked battlegrounds and such for your honor gear, and then doing ranked to get your conquest gear before going for rank was such a thrill. Its sad runescape has nothing remotely adjacent to that, pvp arena has a rating system but its so fundamentally broken atm, and bounty hunter has the gear rewards. Mixing the two in some fashion could have fun results

[@NeanderthalGaming]

You cant convince me that Fray isn't just Dino with a voice changer

[@AnonymousPharmD]

Might be able to talk to the slayer master about the difficulty of your task and see if he will re-assign you one since he doesnt assign earth warriors anymore.

[@Dylan-sp9zy]

Honestly slightly annoying to hear you complain about PvP when, as a streamer, it literally gives you free content. I understand your frustration, but it's the wilderness. You are incorrect in assuming there are only predators and prey. I'm an Iron who loves to anti, and I have no intention on actively PvPing. The only PvP action I get is when a pker gets on me and 9/10 I escape or anti. The wilderness isn't designed around people (not you) who bring nothing to aid in escaping. If you (in general) bring a rune cbow and dhide you're likely to escape almost every time. Multi is bullshit though 100% agree with you there. I avoid multi at all costs, and unfortunately you can't. Good luck on the grind, hopefully you get pet soon.

[@Enderlinkpawnu]

I respect the desire for people to want pvp. I think pvp should be allowed to exist in Runescape. But it shouldn't come at the cost of cannibalizing other player's experience. Which as it stands now in osrs, it very much does 99.9% of the time, since most of the people that get pk'ed don't fight back and are carrying essentially welfare gear and are just trying to mind their own buisness. imo its just bad design to have a place where pvp exists, where the pvp is non-consensual like that. I like how RS3 does it, where pvp is there if you opt in, and in exchange they just made the pvm challenges in the wilderness much more dangerous to compensate.

[@Lorentari]

As an alternative I propose areas of the wilderness where equipped items aren't dropped on death. All loot will be dropped on death, but all you will have lost is your time... As an ironman I don't enjoy the wilderness because bringing anything beyond black d'hide could potentially cost me hundreds of hours of grinding if I get skull-tricked somehow

[@kenboy5764]

imagine if they made ironman only worlds

[@SearedBite]

99% of jmods stop adding pvm updates in the wilderness JUST before they finally revive pvp

[@seanmcgalliard2957]

I just wish rev weapons didn't need 1000 ether to charge. I can deal with losing some ammo, but losing 200k worth of it, and not being able to even use it, just sucks.

[@Aritcheyy]

Pkers do get the 1k ether though.

[@seanmcgalliard2957]

@@Aritcheyy According to the wiki at least, they do not.

[@Aritcheyy]

@@seanmcgalliard2957 can check pking videos every rev wep pk always gives 1k+ easy enough for you to grab a buddy and test it even.

[@numbgod5565]

@@seanmcgalliard2957 They absolutely do get the ether. The ether is lost to the pker

[@seanmcgalliard2957]

@@numbgod5565 If you're talking about the ammo ether, which you put in it after the 1000 to charge it, then 100%. If you're talking about the 1000 to charge the weapon, then either you or the wiki are wrong. I haven't pk'ed before, so my only info is from the wiki, which of course, may be wrong.

[@KGAGamer]

I opened 3 big larran's from some wildy slayer and got the robe bottoms. I was like "NO WAY!"

[@CottidaeSEA]

Main issue with PvP as I see it is ironically the appeal of it. People lose their items. Because the PvP doesn't add anything to the game and only removes from it, the people who do PvP only are incentivised to either RMT, bot or scam since they don't do any PvE content. I'm convinced the vast majority of RMT goes to PvP for that reason. I don't really see a way to fix that with how PvP works in RuneScape.

[@Synchs]

“Why do I attract long and curved bones” is wild lols

[@jf5696]

I agree with everything you said about pking, shit straight sucks, worst part of the game bar none

[@jhm8614]

The problem is that you have locked yourself to this chunk. For regular players the potential of good loot comes with the risks and annoyance of getting PKed. No one is forced to to Vetion.

[@knutolavbjrgaas1069]

You consent to being attacked by pkers by entering the wilderness. Have you forgotten that they actually did make the wilderness non-pvp back in the day? Remember that you are in a unique situation with your self-imposed restrictions which makes the wilderness particularly frustrating for you since you cant just choose to do different content when it gets too annoying. That doesnt necessarily mean the system is bad as a whole. Thats not saying there couldnt be improvements made, but I dont think your suggestions are the way to go.

[@Br0ken_Rob0ts]

13:42 dude, make it even simpler than that, cross into the wildy get hopped to a wilderness world, choice of like 2 sets 15 worlds, one f2p and the other members, have something like a scrying tool to check the world out before crossing to prevent jumping into a clan

[@BrandonNoss]

The idle PVP gp idea you had has already existed in RuneScape YEARS ago, and it was called EP or “expected potential” that would increase the more time you’d spend in the wild fighting people, and would be awarded upon killing someone. Very easily boostable and did not stick around 😂

[@FrayRS]

EP didn't work because you could do it anywhere in the world - what I propose would be locked to 1 small location per world across 3~ worlds - there would never be an inactive moment to boost!

[@BrandonNoss]

@@FrayRS fair play. Sort of like a king of the hill aspect, hold the area get the loot

[@FrayRS]

@@BrandonNoss exactly, and especially if this is in singles it will be really hard to hold down by teams like ROT, especially with only 3 worlds (unlike Revs, back in the day)

[@Jacub28282Ma]

we are so back

[@crafterlula1328]

Glad to see someone else articulate my thoughts about PvM in the wildy. As an Ironman with no interest in PVP, PvM in the wildy is incredibly frustrating. The only "fun" for the PVMer is getting away, and it's only "fun" cus less time was wasted. It doesn't really matter how lucrative an activity is in the wildy, I KNOW I'm going to waste my time there and I KNOW I'm going to remember getting killed more than getting loot. My best interaction with a PvPer wasn't even a miraculous getaway. I got to the boss and IMMEDIATELY got jumped on. Out of exasperation and frustration (because this was the 3rd PVP interruption within an hour), I said "I JUST GOT HERE!" and kept attacking the boss. After eating through a nearly a dozen player attacks, without a word he walked away and I continued on with my trip.... I just wanted the Dragon Pick and Volcanic Mine is incredibly frustrating to solo

[@RupertAndCheese]

Non-optional PVP in during PVE activities is one of the main reasons I'm not going to play this, I've been very tempted watching some of these series.

[@boshabadoo]

Play the game at all or play this content?

[@RupertAndCheese]

@@boshabadoo Play the game at all.

[@rhettconnolly4172]

Saw this "drop" last week and then unlisted. Glad to have it back!

[@drpepper1132]

An easy fix to being forced into wildy content is being able to opt of pvp, They would have to decrease gp per hour and make uniques more rare but it would solve everything. Ironmen aren't forced into pvp and people will still chose the high risk high reward option so the "pkers" will still be satisfied. But it would never pass a poll, the polling system will kill OSRS. It NEVER should have been allowed to go on this long.

[@buthow708]

Mate it's 4:30am you're killing me Ohhh but go on then, just a little canafis before bed

[@ianhusseyanimation]

So an update from the future, the 2nd phase skip at Vet'Ion was real, but they just patched it out today.