This 3D Printer Raised $1,438,765 and Failed. Crowdfunding Warning.

[@aaron4820]

Note to self, never buy hardware that becomes a cinder block the second the company goes bankrupt...

[@giga898]

The Jibo robot met the same fate. When the company went under the servers went with it, and the $900 bot turned into an expensive paperweight

[@RBRap22]

AKA Apple in the future

[@beatchef]

That's why I never got a Glowforge, considering the software is cloud based.

[@johncochran8497]

I wouldn't say it became a cinder block. After all, a cinder block is still useful.

[@garywheeler7039]

Yes beware of proprietary software that only works on the cloud! Connection to the cloud can go away at any time. Due to a natural disaster, or someone not paying a bill. Then its useless. And heaven forbid if all you file content was there.

[@GimmeMonie]

When you have 99% marketing skills, and 1% engineering skills

[@cdreid99999]

thats 99% of kicksterters and 80% of kicksterter supporters

[@midnightfun1277]

Remember the company that made billions because of this. You know the self made billionaire woman that dropped out of school and had an idea just an idea to have a device that can diagnose any disease by just a drop of blood. But in the end she doesnt know shit about engineering or medicine.

[@alionicle]

@@midnightfun1277 wait WHAT How was that thing named?

[@GimmeMonie]

@@alionicle it was called Theranos.

[@lawsonharrison6927]

When the economy work force is 99% market experts and. 1% engineers

[@Tachibana84]

Avoid any hardware that depends on some cloud app as a plague.

[@melody_florum]

tachiorz ight imma avoid Alexa

[@gavincurtis]

Like those cricket vinyl sheet cutters.....amazing machine completely crippled by a stupid cloud based software app that must be online. That shit is GARBAGE!

[@Falney]

You better get a Nokia 3310 then. Stay away from them androids and iphones.

[@oscarcerda8331]

"All the hard questions up front" *First question "Your Name"* Me: *nervously sweats*

[@Hawkskull]

Second Question "Your Quest?"

[@gangleweed]

errr….father's maiden name....LOL.

[@JennyEverywhere]

Third question: what is the capitol of Assyria?

[@spartacussmith7070]

Social security number and credit card number, 3 digits on the back, and exp date?

[@dika2saja]

Named a project in kick started with "Pirate" Internet: "W3LL nOtHinG wILL G0eS WrOnG"

[@DustyTheKitty]

A printing device completely dependent on an app? NOPE! that's a big red flag right there.

[@bricksbricksbricks5634]

> "Misc" > 420 Bucks i see what you did there m8

[@dr.jonatasbernardes6664]

420... hummmmmm

[@johnyang799]

too cheap for 420

[@christopherleveck6835]

Need a 3d potter. 3d planter?

[@fortheregm1249]

could you kindly explain 420's significance to us dull mined individuals please ?

[@johnyang799]

@@fortheregm1249 Smoke weed every day- ay -ay -ay

[@newvelaric]

Yeah, “crowd funding is not pre-order”. No truer words has to be said! That been said, I am done with any crowd funding. Too many heartbreak...

[@GreekGadgetGuru]

It's tough, selling the dream but there are thousands of hurdles and obstacles. You need more than a war fund. Even successful companies are launching Kickstarters. Random: Where did you get that shirt? Looks custom-designed!

[@MakersMuse]

Yeah, so much goes into it that consumers are simply oblivious to. The shirt is from cyberdog :D

[@BrickworksDK]

"Even successful companies are launching Kickstarters." And that's a major problem. Look at a company like CMON. They've pretty much gone KickStarter only now, cutting out the middle man and selling directly to the customer. One wave... No product in the local stores... No further support... It's a clever way of (ab)using FOMO. People will put crazy amounts of money into an all-out pledge, knowing that they'll never get a chance later on. But it's a really shitty way of doing business as KickStarter was never intended to be a storefront.

[@stevec5000]

Did people actually send money to someone named Pirate3D? LOL

[@hemipemi]

The full company name before they rebranded: p1r4t3d w4r3z

[@stevec5000]

@@hemipemi LOL

[@irontoad123]

What did PT barnum say happened every minute

[@powermineteen2771]

irontoad123 a sucker is born every minute

[@oneirophon8912]

@@irontoad123 Nothing. P. T. Barnum wasn't the one who said that.

[@sipplix]

Imagine a crowd funding company that not only provided the platform to raise finances for an idea or concept, but also provided financial guidance and even manufacturing and logistical support to successful concepts.

[@kalisthenes6650]

Excellent video thank you! The only issue I have with Kickstarter is that they still endorse failed projects that generate large sums of money as “projects we love”. Of course it isn’t the project that they love, it’s the money.

[@MakersMuse]

Very good point. They pretend failures were a success years later...

[@specy_]

I just watched a 3 minute ad before this video started. Love me

[@MakersMuse]

Was it a good ad

[@specy_]

@@MakersMuse yep, it talked about additive manufacturing and a 3d company that sold a desktop printer with dual independent extruders (BCN3D sigma R19).

[@sambarnes1226]

@@cobeer1768 The form 2 is the most used 3d printer in the industry. Request a free sample part in our engineering resin I've got it stuck in my head dang it

[@extraSPARErib]

Specy hey. Dummy. You can skip ads after 5 seconds unless otherwise noted. Dummy.

[@extraSPARErib]

Zac Birrer did you change your Google/gmail ad preferences? I did to remove targeted ads and now I get inky 5 second ads that I don't care about or anything longer allows to skip after 5 seconds. I really despise marketing and ads and data hoarding & whoring ... so this change for me was for the best.

[@hazonku]

This is a GREAT history lesson about 3D printing and the overall risks of of crowdfunding and I can't think of anyone more qualified to share this story than you, Angus. Things have gotten a lot better now days but back in these earlier times every printer, laser cutter, or widget machine was a gamble. It was the wild west and there were now standards.

[@matthewbasaraba69]

I have funded several projects that went no where, the worst was SinterHard which was making a FDM Metal filament that needed to be sintered afterwards. Although they failed, The Virtual Foundry picked up where they failed and have made an amazing metal filament. I had thought about doing my direct drive upgrade as a crowd funded project but after seeing all the fails and the constant spam on KickStarter I decided to just fund it out of pocket and it has done really good. I am sure I could have made A LOT more if the word had got out and it would be more popular but so far I have made a good profit and they continue to sell.

[@ifell3]

I need to get myself a crowd funding account and a GoPro aha 🤣 on a serious note, if you got that printer up and running it might have a sentimental object there for someone.

[@g3i0r]

"Projects with well known overhead like events"... Just like Fyre? :D

[@MakersMuse]

Well, you know know the overheads if you ya know, CALCULATE them... unlike Billy haha

[@Pikmin2031]

Fyre was a scam from the get-go. The overhead wouldn't have been hard to calculate, if anyone ever bother to do so. The event was slapped together in the cheapest way possible, while advertising the exact opposite. It was specifically targeted towards rich-kids, and was an easy and effective way of tricking them out of their money.

[@dudepersonvids]

lol as others said, events actually do have pretty well known overheads. The guy who brought us the disaster of Fyre Festival had a history of scamming people with things that were too good to be true, and he was informed on multiple occasions that what he was promising was not feasible within the limits of time and money - but he insisted on keeping the charade going as long as possible.

[@blizzyyt2281]

dudepersonvids the only reason he kept going was because he had bank loans to pay

[@ninetails6218]

J Squad Vlogs “Man who scams those irresponsible with money is himself irresponsible with money”, where have I heard that before?

[@jd52wtf]

Great video. Good lesson here. If you are planning on putting something up for crowdfunding; Treat that support as a pre-order. Have all of the technical kinks worked out. Hardware design should be 90% complete. The money should only be used to finish and polish that last little bit at the end and provide a great experience to your backers. Too many of these are just down to bad management.

[@calebwhiting8744]

This is what sets Crowd Supply apart. They review each project personally and will not allow you to launch unless they believe you have a good path to production. EDIT: he said it at the end of the video.

[@rayden54]

"Crowdfunding is not a pre-order." I agree. Which is why I don't understand why backers always get up in arms whenever they don't get their items FIRST. I can understand being upset that a product missed its delivery date, but again not a pre-order. Missed dates are unfortunately part of the development process. The worst thing a struggling company can do is apparently what everyone expects: sending the few products they've been able to make to backers for free (remember the money they paid was for development, not a purchase and is probably gone in any case). Those companies should or more accurately *need* to try to sell their product directly to customers first. Trying to "fulfill their obligations to backers" when they have no money to do so is a surefire way for them to go under (and I've seen too many companies receive praise for that when they really shouldn't--it's like doing the dishes when the house is on fire). And, unless backers want them to go out of business, then they need to realize that getting "their" product FIRST is less important than the company making enough money so that they can actually *afford* to send them a product and to stay in business (especially in cases like the one in the video where the product NEEDS the company to stay in business in order for it to work). Right now though, any company that tries to do that is crucified in the media. To the backers: Yes, that might mean that Joe who didn't back the project can get his Widget before you. Yes, it might mean that you can get a Widget faster if you just buy one from the store. And that's great. Because the great thing about crowdfunding isn't that you get a Widget, it's that Widgets exist because of you.

[@Psychlist1972]

I paid into two failed 3d printer projects. First was the Makible MakiBox, which took over $500 of my money, including some filament, and then never delivered. It was a super low-cost printer, but I was dumb and ordered filament at the same time. Nothing ever showed up. HE posted lots of photos of working in China, and I think a number of people actually received units. I did not. Eventually, he just disappeared. The Makibox was a competitor to the Buccaneer at the time. Second was the French Kickstarter ZeePro Zim which had an online slicer/control, dual heads, etc. Nice unit in 2014. They went under, though, and then their printer became a brick unless you replaced the control board with something open source. Out $1200 on that one. At that point, I vowed to never again buy anything like that that required a cloud service. That includes the laser cutters that came out later. I knew the risk, but at the time, thought I'd take it. The problem with cloud-based logic for a tool, is that at some point in the future, eventually, it'll go away, or you'll be required to pay more, or upgrade the hardware. That's a guarantee. So you need to treat the item more like you would software than a tool. I own tools (and synthesizers) that are 40+ years old, and will work for as long as I maintain them. Software, on the other hand, can stop working with the next rev of the OS. Bought Prusa after that. They're slow to deliver, but they do actually deliver, and make good stuff. I've had a few other Kickstarter fails, and many more successes. It's not as interesting a platform now that it's more big company with flashy videos vs. the original "person in a garage" approach. I'll check out Crowd Supply as it seems a bit more like how Kickstarter used to be, before they got greedy.

[@torstenpersson5629]

I got both printer (probably the last one delivered) and filament. It was a flimsy construction but after a lot of improvements it actually produced half decent prints. All in all it was a really bad printer and you might even been lucky not receiving one.

[@janosnoll6830]

You can actually buy a cheap but pretty usable 3D printer nowdays for $200 - like the Ender 3. It's for home use, you don't get all quality parts, not as good as a Prusa, but it works pretty well. And they deliver. That's what happened in just a few years, I guess.

[@Psychlist1972]

@@janosnoll6830 Thanks. With the Prusa, I bought it pre-assembled and configured, rather than as a kit. I was able to print a quality print within minutes after unboxing it. Tweaking 3d printers isn't my hobby, but I use 3d printing to support other hobbies, but at the same time, it's a hobby, so commercial 3d printers are out of my budget. For folks who prefer to tweak, modify, etc. there are tons of low-cost options these days.

[@SolidIncMedia]

I was a Buccaneer backer who got a printer, enjoyed the printer, and did my research about the printer prior to backing. I've since moved on to an Elegoo Saturn resin printer because.. well.. mostly coolness factor, money to burn, and a desire to learn how 3D printing really works (without having it hidden by some simple front-end software), but I did have some really good prints on my Buccaneer and printed some nice brackets and stuff for some tech projects I was working on, plus learned a ton of stuff. I went through a bit of a checklist before backing, which included "does this have a physical prototype?" (it did), "have they had other Kickstarters before?" (no), "realistically, how well could this all scale up on a manufacturing level?" (rather well, given the simple internals, off-the-shelf components and such), "does it have proprietary stuff that can't be replaced?" (no), and "if the company shits itself, can I still use this product?" (yes, even today, if you have the software, plus there were some efforts made to convert it into a more advanced 3D printer) So with that in mind, I backed, and don't regret my decision, especially given that it was my first printer, but given the option earlier this year, I went for the more advanced (i.e. one designed for the masses, not for those that had never 3D printed before) Elegoo Saturn. Anyway, I think they did the best job they could, but a combination of raising not enough money, tweaking of things before going to manufacturing, and failing to secure enough funding to continue on, were its downfall.

[@Pooky1991]

I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact people saw the name Pirate3d and it didn't raiae alarm bells

[@grumpydude1598]

i for one would love to see you revive that Buchaneer, perhaps with an SKR board, 2208's and stuff like that, it will have EVERYTHING , electronics install, marlin config, maybe even some fusion tutorial stufffor printed parts , etc i would love to watch that

[@DJBillyQ]

I was one of the people who funded the Buccaneer project, and (although I never received mine... :'( ) I'd definitely love to see one refurbed!

[@Sugaryy_]

I love how both printers that you mentioned ( 8:39 ) failed

[@EdgarInventor]

Who the heck wants a 3D printer that needs a cloud based slicer, I.E. a paperweight if there's not connection?

[@pixel_arc8550]

Remember: There were almost no 3d printers at the time. Everything was a huge improvement at the time.

[@willierants5880]

Agreed 10000%

[@thebeststooge]

I said the same thing at the time.

[@HypherNet]

Everyone who owns a Glowforge? Which are amazing, for what it's worth.

[@thebeststooge]

@Yona Appletree A Laser versus a 3d Printer. Seriously, that is Apples to Oranges because if the Glowforge company died tomorrow you can still use the Glowforge to cut shit and engrave with but this 3d Printer it was all on the net or it was a door stop.

[@luigidaniele6613]

Most of these Kickstarters are people that have never even started their own business and think that it will be easy to solve things once the money is their. It's much easier to make a business when the money is yours vs when it's other peoples money.

[@TomHofmann]

My professor for manufacturing technology at Uni used to say do you cost and time estimates then double it and you'll probably be still 20% over.

[@musicmakelightning]

Some years back (maybe 5 or 6) I was working at Maker Faire in the SF Bay Area. I met a guy who had created a 3D printer that would fit in the palm of a hand. He was printing very tiny things, of course, and I wondered at first what use that could be. But his pitch to anyone who would listen was that he had $900k in outstanding orders through Kickstarter, and he could not figure out how to deliver. He was going to sell the tiny machines for $300 each, and he figured he'd make, maybe 15 or 20 of them in his garage before he could figure out how to get manufacturing assistance. But now he was looking at having to make 3,000 of them, and he was in a panic. I actually went back to some VC friends of mine and said - hey, here's a guy who has found a market and proved it. He's got $900k in backlog orders and needs help scaling. Why not give him some working capital and a partner who knows manufacturing? (After all, that's what VCs do. Of course, they own your soul as a result, but hey, it's better than going belly-up in the fishtank.) And absolutely nobody (at least in my silicon valley circles) would touch it. They figured that 3D printing was some sort of passing phase and it would take a big player to make it "real" and this was not the guy. Everyone passed on the opportunity and far as I know, this guy made 15 palm-sized 3D printers and then ran away. Not sure there was much use for microscopically sized plastic models of Yoda's head (which is all he had at that point).

[@ManCrafting]

I’ve backed many projects. I’ve been lucky. All have delivered. Enjoyed the history and background on this.

[@EntropiaGuitars]

2019 we have the same situation with Kodama's Obsidian from Kickstarter. 1.6 million, into it's 4th calendar year, and not one printer delivered - just vague updates every 3 months or so from the creator and the same prototypes being shown over and over again.

[@tseckwr3783]

I enjoy watching your enthusiasm in your presentations, young man.... Keep them coming.

[@Londrino]

I was a backer for the Peachy printer, their projected cost was way too low, but I wouldn't have been as mad if they just ran out of money. There's no more information about the embezzlement out there other than Peachy's own updates, so it's entirely possible that both founders were in on it. Now I have a Moai, which uses the exact same technology, but lo and behold, it actually exists and no one built a house with my money.

[@Henchman1977]

I backed Reach3d printer on kickstarter a few years ago and they all delivered almost on time. Still using it.

[@Reach3DPrinters]

Hey Ian! We did all right, got way behind, never realized what I was getting myself into sooo much manual labor that I didn't fully anticipate, so I had to do the work myself. There was no way I was going to throw in the towel though. :)

[@poisonouslead85]

@@Reach3DPrinters Hey that's badass and it looks like you're still around selling and supporting machines.

[@thetwitch6667]

I backed a kickstarter campaign a few years ago, only recently I got a message from them telling their supporters that it has failed due to tech issues BUT on the flip side, I backed Kodama with their first 3D printer and I still use it today

[@chriscontact5857]

Yeah, i backed the second. Got so excited about the Obsidian a couple of days ago I got the Tronxy XY-3 on Amazon Prime Day.

[@tomgidden]

I had a relatively early pledge on the Buccaneer Kickstarter. Fortunately, I backed out and got a refund before things went south... a Kickstarter for a better compact printer -- CEL Robox -- came out, and I switched to that. It ran a little late, but delivered, and I've always been happy with it.

[@GarageScience]

Thankfully there have been enough flopped campaigns out there that it's not too hard to distinguish a flashy video with a semi working product to a campaign actually offering a fully developed design. Good video. The kickstarter for my draken barely made it and the company isn't that big but they are still selling printers.... at least a couple that is.

[@MrJoerT]

I actually funded the Obsidian and got burned. Since this was the second campaign of the company after a successful first one, I thought the risk was quite low. I'm not sure if I was right, but I'm sure I'm never getting my printer. Too good to be true is really the key when it comes to crowd funding I guess. I recently just bought my first printer the old-fashioned way, in a shop. A cheap AnyCubic Mega Zero, which seems like great value for money, with even lower risk. Never touching anything crowdfunded again.

[@BRUXXUS]

This makes me sad about NewMatter and the Mod-t. I know people had issues with them, but I loved mine. It's what got me into 3D printing, and for $299. I always used Cura as my slicer and never really had issues. I printed many hundreds of great parts with it. They also delivered on their crowdfunding campaign. Just bums me out they're not around anymore. I still have my Mod-t, but my CR-10s does all my work now.

[@Shiruvan]

'Heeeyy welcome to kickstarter crap today we're going to look at ...'

[@Michael-xe3dn]

The injection molding alone probably pushed the cost above the retail price.

[@raidaltamimi]

My first 3D printer was the Trinus3D which is made by Kodama, the creators of the upcoming “Obsidian” printer. I have never been happier with a 3D printer before. Backed in 2014(?), still works amazingly well to this day, and the community is amazing. I think Kodama did a very good job with their previous KS and they probably can handle this one pretty well too. Micheal (Founder of Kodama) has always been, and still, heavily involved with the community, which is an excellent thing.

[@jaychapman6448]

Peachy printer raised over $1M on kickstarter and elsewhere, kept on asking for more then said there was no printer.... one of the principles had used the money to buy a house. No printers, no refunds, no police charges. They just kept stringing people along for as long as possible. After that I'll never find a kickstarter type project again.

[@joshbrown1506]

I clicked this video thinking you were going to bash ONO (formerly OLO). It was also kickstarter and raised $2,321,811 nearly 4 years later, and they haven't shipped a single unit out. I was one of the poor chumps that bit the hook, too

[@StephenBoyd21]

I’ve given up with Kickstarter. I’ve been burnt a couple of times.

[@HelmutEder]

Remembers me at a Selfie Drone a few Years ago, Zino if i remember correct. Invested 250 Bucks , they reached more than a Million $ but it never raised above Development, the Money flows thru their Fingers..

[@Samtagri]

The makibox $300 printer fell behind schedule and in the end they completely stopped delivering and communications while still accepting orders. I think it is a project that started with good intentions but slowly fell into shady territory.

[@Mr0901]

Remember when a project needed a proof of concept and not just an idea?

[@Darth_Bateman]

No, because we've been doing this since ancient times.

[@pyk_]

Lol I love that people actually gave money to that laser razor. I have no sympathy for those backers.

[@Arek_R.]

I want to have my own tech company, possibly starting using kickstarter. But I don't rush, as you said need some experience, so I work as a engineer in a industrial company, I get to do various things related to production, both mechanical and electronics.

[@derekhawley9660]

Good reinforcement of my scepticism Angus. Investment like this is like going to the races ... don't expect your money back. Winning is a bonus. Again, thanks for tackling non-engineering/3D stuff topics.

[@RavenNest23]

Reminds me of the Morpheus Delta on kickstarter. Promised refunds for years, printer still isn't delivered. Had every excuse under the sun.

[@crunchysteve]

Fit the Pirate with RAMPS on a ReArm board, running Marlin 2. There's probably a few videos for the future. The Melzi board on my Tronxy P802E blew it's extruder driver. Rebooted the beast for less than $80 with a RAMPS 1.4 with Marlin 1.1.9 and I reckon you could do a lot of cheap printer buyers a big favour by showing them how to completely refurbish a blown or worn out printer. I really didn't get on all that well with the Melzi running Repetier. The jump to RAMPS has made the beast a powerhouse! Surely the Pirate would benefit.

[@Blobster-td4nv]

Weird question: What is the small purple light on your desk? It looks quite nice

[@jverz9430]

Thank you for mentioning CrowdSupply. I hadn't even consider crowd-sourcing the RasPi shield I'm working on because I didn't know a site dedicated to that existed.

[@JohnHansknecht]

I backed Tiko. Actually received one. The week I received it I saw they were going south, so I put it up for sale on Ebay with full disclosure that it would take an expert in 3D printing to get it operational. It sold for about $89, so I only lost $40 of my $129 investment. I will never do crowd funding again. Now, back to playing with my brand new Prusa i3 Mk3s.

[@dmknight08]

Idk about buying 3d printers through Kickstarter but I center rainst buy a crap ton of 3d printable designs from kickstarters and I always get more than my money’s worth. I usually go for the most complete package which includes license to sell the models; otherwise, I just go for the most complete set. Needless to say I’ve dropped thousands and thousands on models from Printable Scenery, RocketPigGames, anything compatible with openlock or dragonlock systems, Dark Realms, 3D Print Terrain, Obsession (Hell Hath No Fury), etc...and every time I’ve been 100% satisfied with all that I’ve invested. The creators have been spot on with release dates. Obsession ran a bit behind schedule, but I have no complaints in general, and I’m convinced that it really is the absolute best way to purchase terrain sets, even if you don’t intend to sell anything. It all sells for much more money after it’s released to their eshops. I mentioned all of that because I have become very complacent and comfortable in backing projects and I assumed that Kickstarter would hold creators as legally liable for their campaigns. Not that Kickstarter would refund me if something went wrong, but that it would have a system in place where backers could file suits more easily and not have to track the creator down blindly, etc... And not that anyone wants to pay for a lawyer to sue them. Idk I made sure I bought from established creators who had successfully ran campaigns prior to me getting involved. For 3D printers, I can see how that wouldn’t be an option. For others; play it safe like I do and you won’t have to worry so much about getting ripped off. However, if anything good is to come from a Kickstarter then people will have to take chances on things. Just leave that to people who can afford to take the chances, and if you don’t have money to lose in that manner if it should go bad, then try and stay away from iffy investments. That’s all we can do really.

[@maxwell_edison]

Makers Muse, I'm an old 3D printing fan who has a topic request. Why is 3d printing stagnating? It seems that we aren't getting huge improvements over the years like we should. Compare it to VR, where every year we are getting vastly better experiences, then look at 3d printing - it's not much cheaper, it's not much better, than what it was many years ago. Can you talk about the stagnating?

[@750tiprogamer]

I have little knowledge about this, but I feel like it'd be from lack of demand. I think that right now at least 3d printers are more for companies than consumers, and we do fine without it

[@dasbrawnyman]

I never got mine. With a name like Pirate3D I'm not sure what I was expecting really.

[@DG-AI777]

dasbrawnyman did you get your money back?

[@dasbrawnyman]

@@DG-AI777 Sadly no.

[@DG-AI777]

dasbrawnyman Dayum so all these kickstarters that fail, the backers never get paid back! That's insane. Shame dude, that sucks.

[@jonskinner5664]

Kickstarter is a mugs game, anyone who backs deserves to get robbed.

[@DG-AI777]

jon skinner calm down keyboard warrior. It was the one place on this earth where innovation was and is openly available to the public at affordable prices, from my understanding. How many successful campaigns were/are there, thousands I'm sure. And sounds like any investment, where risk is involved.

[@phunkymunky7210]

I once crowd funded a campaign for a 3D printer on GoFund Me. They never delivered the product, and stole millions. They kept delaying the product, that eventually it went over 1 yr and bank could not refund money. The lack of consumer protection is what now keeps me away from these.

[@axelhopfinger533]

Ultimately, the combination of open source and China proved to be unbeatable for the dedicated low cost hobbyist market. And despite all efforts, there are yet still very few comprehensive, proprietary 3D printer systems that are both affordable, easy to use/ergonomic and offer good performance all around. And concerning Kickstarter, Chinese companies also seem to have the edge in actually delivering finished products, even though rarely without flaws. Not accounting for the frequent scams. Building up a business and producing innovative, high quality yet competitive products turns out to be more difficult, complex and expensive than most startups are prepared for in the Western world. And relying mostly on Crowdfunding tends to fall short in more cases than not, because the projected funds needed are often calculated too low, especially when failing to account for unexpected additional costs during the production and marketing process. In the end, as in any industry, many will try, few will prevail and most will fail.

[@zachcrawford5]

I fundend the RigidBot when it was on Kickstarter. The founder burned through all his funds (despite getting roughly 30x his funding goal) he then ended up draining his personal line of credit, remortgaging his house and even take out loans from family. It really should have failed but even though it was a year late he managed to get (basically) all the perks out. The printer itself is fairly primitive by today's standards but it's heated build surface is huge (12" by 16"), all the components are accessible for maintenance, repair or enhancements and the frame is built like a tank. I can literally sit on the thing with all of my weight WHILE it's printing and it is not affected (actually it seems to print a little better lol). I hope the founder is doing alright now.

[@zachl.6511]

If you guys want a budget, easy to use but high precision printer, Creality makes good 3d printers such as the ender 3 for 220$ (where i'm from in Asia)

[@fireyblackdragon]

I was actually one of the few people who got a Tiko3D! One of the full production ones. Their cloud service never got set up, so that didn't work, and as such the included instructions don't work. However, if the tiko can't find the cloud service, it'll create a wifi hotspot. You can connect to that and get a rather stripped down version of their cloud service thing running straight on the Tiko. You can drag models into your browser and set it to start printing. There's not many settings, as it was designed as a printer you don't have to think about, so anything more advanced than nozzle temp is hidden away or simply not accessible. I don't believe straight gcode was ever implemented. It was something they talked about implementing later down the road... see how that turned out. overall: it works. It can be really fiddly sometimes, and kinda scary at times (it finds out where the head is by a sort of bed-leveling thing where it just crashes the (pre-heated) hot-end onto the bed until it can't move anymore on the 3 corners, thus it knows it's that far away from the bed.), and it's failed more prints than it's done successfully (Which is a shame given how locked-up the software is. Also the temp settings printed on the spool don't work. People on the forums have better temps for the supplied filaments). Also the rafts suck, and every other time it ends up bonding to it. But it works. Kinda bad print quality. okay, really bad print quality. But it produces things about 50% of the time!

[@TechExploresNYC]

I backed a kickstarter called Chip computer (basically a lower powered ARM computer). That one delivered but the backing company failed and there's no more software update. Then I backed indiegogo gimbal camera that still has issue but the developer cannot improve it anymore. I also backed the 2 Keychron mechanical keyboards, that one was successful with perfect product. Make sure you back a reputable company... that's my experience.

[@xalataf3365]

I honestly didn't even know that it was a Kickstarter project. I got hold of an earlier Buccaneer without the SD card slot and the fact that all it had in ports being the power cord already raised a red flag. The filament constantly jammed on me and it wasn't an uncommon sight to see the printer with its top cover off (due to me constantly having to grab loose filament pieces.) Unfortunately, I'm rather inexperienced with 3D printers. All I can really tell you is that it's otherwise fine, if this is your only printer and you for whatever reason can't get hold of another.

[@JennyEverywhere]

I backed the Ono 3d printer. I've pretty much kissed that money goodbye, as they keep saying "no, really, we're JUST about to ship!" They've been saying that for several years now. By the time they ship, if they do, it'll be just in time for their cloud services to go away, making the device a doorstop. It's close to that now -- they originally planned to use an ultrasonic data transfer method, but the only other product I know of that did that, an Australian augmented reality toy you clamped your phone into, switched from sonic to Bluetooth because the sonic ate batteries at a ruinous rate. But then they charged extra for a retrofit module, and I couldn't be bothered to get it. Then Ono or Olo or whatever went with a headphone jack connection...right when phone makers were trying to phase them out. I fully expect that if they do ship, with a fully funded cloud site with open source code you can put on Amazon cloud services of the sure dies, it'll be two months before the resin needed for the thing gets banned for making the frogs gay or something. Sigh...

[@gangleweed]

Ahhhh, give them a break, every time they get to the tape someone upgrades the design and it's back to the drawing board again....who wants something that's just gone obsolete.....of course the new price will be higher because it's state of the art....once again.

[@Metamere]

I backed the Tiko. After stringing me along for years, they had the gall to ask for a huge shipping fee before they even had a unit to ship to me. I'm bummed I wasted the money, but I'm glad I didn't have to deal with a bad printer that would have inevitably gotten bricked. I finally got over it and bought a Prusa MK3S kit a couple months ago, and am loving it and what I can do with it.

[@UnboxingTVofficial]

I backed the FlowMotion ONE Gimbal and the first few month everything was okay, but a few weeks ago i got an E-Mail in which they told us, that the company went bankrupt. Alot of backers didn't get the product at all - i got mine but sadly a defective unit. You can say, that they were successful at first but the luck left them later on. I also backed the SmartHalo and i have to say, that this project was very successful. Delivery is fast, support is awesome and they now working on the successor of the first Smarthalo.

[@Bajicoy]

Finally getting around to designing a 3D printer to sell, these are really good lessons to rewatch for. Wish me luck!

[@felixcat9318]

Excellent video! Thank you for this highly informative and insightful glimpse into the pitfalls of crowd funding.

[@Lemming1970]

Only thing I've ever crowed funded was Project Cars(£30ish). It was a great experience watching the game develop. Got the game and two deposits of £30(I think) into my paypal account. Certainly one of those thing you only do if you can afford to loose the money.

[@msunardi]

Great video and very informative for me! Looking forward to your future videos!

[@netrandom]

I've used crowdsupply to back about 9 projects ranging from $50 to $1500 and they have always delivered.

[@TheRainHarvester]

What is the website? I get a bunch of companies when I search.

[@zackmarkham4240]

'Just a few years' No, I see us doing that in 20-30 years. 3D printing is still in it's infancy and will take several years to become fully fledged and even longer to become commonplace and affordable for the larger public.

[@kazolar]

There is more than just 3D printers. There was a Dinosaur -- a cute little dinosaur which was backed by the IBM cloud platform -- it had IBM's seal of approval, the use of their AI platform, it was targeted at kids, or more specifically at parents who wanted to introduce their kids to the world of AI. You press the dino's belly and it can go from telling a joke to telling a fact, help a child learn. I backed it for 2 dinos, and they actually delivered, to all their backers -- but then not long after they folded, and their backend system (the one that was supposed to have IBM's weight behind it) was gone and the dino -- was dead. My 2 dinos are dead, my kids kept asking initially if they were sick, and what's wrong with them and why they don't talk anymore -- they were their friends -- now they were dead, pressing their belly does nothing -- they beep or say one word they know to say when they can't connect to the mothership. This is the discouraging part of these startups. edit -- lookup Cognitoys

[@hakangenc9175]

Fantastic. Cant be simpler. Thanks for your effort and sharing.

[@3DFABRIK]

I got mine anyway! Worked great. Removable platform, it was cool for the day and the price...everything changes so fast .... That's life! You win some you loose some....plus there is no guarantees on Kickstarter....

[@notbuyingit8047]

Thank you for calling a scam a scam. We’re not buying it

[@DanielAllan]

I have only backed like 2-3 projects (no failures, one did close up for 2 years but did deliver eventually) my view is giving the money is like putting it in a fire, you dont expect to get anything back, if you don't have money to burn then it shouldn't be going on crowdfunding.

[@CombsDeserts]

Great video Angus! Love your channel, been watching for years

[@ghostnoodle9721]

The average donation per person 420$ Edit: 408$ :( my math was using rounded up numbers

[@acezero5705]

Well that's depressing

[@Misha-dr9rh]

some poor sod even payed 10,000 dollars. 10 thousand dollars. I feel bad for them.

[@menacesaidimbanned9754]

Did one kickstarter, took 9 months longer then advertised, was for some module earbuds, they where nice, but the company is no longer.

[@skirmisherssouthport5056]

I have backed three projects on kickstarter. Two projects were delivered, but didn't work very well. The third project I backed was the SLA Pluto printer which hasn't been delivered, and the creator stopped publishing updates on new years eve last year, so I am assuming I have lost a lot of money on this project. I reported the project to Kickstarter along with my fellow backers. Kickstarter don't seem to give a s**t about backers getting ripped off, as I have not had an email from the kick starter team telling me what they have done about trying to contact the creator's. My advice is don't back a crowd funding project unless you are prepared to lose your money.

[@EngineeringVignettes]

My impression of crowdsupply is this it is a bit more serious about hardware projects and that some tangible return is there for your investment. More along the line of, "hey guys I need to make 1 board to fill some role, does anyone else want one? Good then I can bulk buy and get a better price on the manufacturing." There are some better players using it as well like Lime Micro (Lime SDRs). I backed that one and got a unit when it was completed.

[@Clunbeuh]

I have a Tiko, with a few modifications it worked great until you get a jam then you fight with it until you find a way to get the jam cleared out. May need to look into replacing the geared rails on it as I am the 3rd owner of it and they are plastic and suck.

[@pyk_]

People often forget that kickstarter is not a store even though they constantly tell you it's not.

[@yannpenhas9280]

Great job, muse! I personnaly baked on several kickstarter projects and all were delivered... except the Obsidian!!!! These guys are not giving any news since months, and I am afraid they will finally go on your list...

[@hxcAMBERhxc]

9:03 I had what was essentially this conversation with some people on Steam after one of my favorite Early Access games had to close down. So many people have been calling it fraud, when it says right in the early access description that you are not guaranteed a finished product. You are paying for *early access* to an unfinished product. If anything, you are investing in the company and hoping they are able to finish.

[@bentyh6460]

Sigh, my Tiko worked for like 3 prints before it just couldn't print anything right. I guess I'm lucky I actually got it compared to all the people who didn't get theirs but it just sits in a closet now

[@mes1983]

Yup, I never even got a chance to print something - mine never came. Amazing how they could f* things up so badly. Still amazes me that they had to go out to look for investors so late in the game. Anyway, lesson learned, never going to back something like that again

[@Epsteindidnt]

I have thankfully received 3 different items from Kickstarter. Helped to fund a movie, Some handcrafted leather tool cases and the tech item... the Vinci Headphones v1. The movie was on time, the leather items took about 9 months with zero communications for a few months, and the Vinci arrived on time.. However, Vinci on their V2 the company collapsed and a lot of stakeholders lost their return and sadly the communications to Kickstarter at the end was from staff soon to be retrenched. I didn't get the V2 but you can see how even with the success of a product, doesn't mean all is ok for the next... As you had said in this pretty important video, is that you are a stakeholder taking a risk, not a backorder with a money-back guarantee. Thank for posting...

[@case725]

I'm feeling the same way about my M3D Crane Quad right now. They're outright selling full production units to back-fund my year-old backer order. Of course, all the wording in their contract is set up to protect them, and not their customers. First crowd-funding I've participated in, and last transaction I'll ever do with M3D. I'm glad it's all open-source, so if I ever do get the printer, at least I won't have to deal with them again.

[@alerey4363]

I will never trust a 3d printer that hides the process! in fact, you need to watch it carefully as it develops, layer by layer, because a small blob of messy filament could create a snowball effect that ruins the printing and YOU NEED TO WATCH FOR THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT to stop the printer and prevent a massive problem (warping or base dislodging or even a risk of fire); with delicate materials suchs as ABS or flexibles the watching is even more critical

[@scaletownmodels]

I had backed the Tiko printer and at the time I thought they should have doubled the price. I backed it thinking it'd be amazing if they pulled it off. In that case I was playing craps but knew I was rolling the dice on it. All the other kickstarts I've done have delivered. I had a small business manufacturing laser cut kits for model railroading. Building, structures and such so I knew something about making a physical product. Designing the models and making the kits was the easy part. Talking to stores and looking into distribution, advertising, packaging (custom packaging is expensive and you better want 30,000 units to start with) is the nightmare.

[@joejia1410]

The fact is, pirate3D was already targeting Chinese suppliers. They even delivered 23 to a Taobao supplier before they went black. The software is proprietary there was a "not-on-cloud" software. (They said it cost 200 bucks to even get that)

[@MakeItWithCalvin]

I feel the buccaneer was a machine ahead of its time. I would love to see someone revive this without the web-only interface. Still, though I have only backed a few things that were from reputable folks and not hardware.

[@michael1234252]

IMO if you really want to do a Kickstarter campaign to actually get a product out to the public. First of all you'll need a working Prototype, secondly you need to look at viable building materials, finally you need to take in consideration how well you present the campaign/product and find out if this is something that will be popular enough to be worth making a campaign for it. Just look at Oculus and their VR headset. Now before Oculus VR was kinda ify and not really out there. But what Oculus did was during their Kickstarter campaign they had many different prototypes that they took around to places for demoing it along with sending some out to certain people to test out. Along with that they raised about 5X their intended goal which helped them out a ton and it took them about 3 years to actually get a finalized version out in stores. But during that time they had many different testers to help them out all over the world. So that is one good thing that they had with this. Also at the same time when you look on Kickstarter their are a ton of campaigns that have been made in a low effort way and then their are the others that put allot of effort into making the campaign video/page to the point where it looks super good but then again it's a scam.

[@Dappsy95]

I came close to backing the TIKO, it was such a good looking campaign, it was such a good looking printer. Not having the cash i figured it would surely be successful and i'd be able to buy one in a couple years. Super glad i didn't back them

[@philipbyrnes7501]

Great video and thank you Angus but from one Aussie to another, ONO should have topped your list. Been waiting what, must be just over 3 years now, they raised about 3.3 million on Kickstarter and I’m still waiting and waiting. They don’t even bother to send updates anymore tho you can find them if you go to the site but their excuses are all pretty lame so far. Please, anyone considering these people, RUN AWAY, FAR AWAY FROM ONO. Keep up the great work mate, always useful and helpful and always much appreciated, thank you

[@Jerrec]

I am happy with my FlashForge Printers. They are great and prebuilt and work from scratch. Still this is in 2019 and not 2013.