”This class will be bad. D-tier. Don't play it”

[@hype_gaming]

We need more youtubers like you, problem is that people want to ride the hype train and make views, subs and money, those youtubers are at work and they will do whatever is needed to mske money

[@Knife1437]

A bit of a read but gives detailed reasons to the questions discussed in the video. As a tank who has done up to brut on both bear and warrior, when it comes to my Warrior I simply used a slow MH weapon to get good devastate threat along with WF crits and an emphasis on STR and Agi where I can. Even a threat trinket with a DPS MH makes a huge difference and it also makes your threat on initial pull a lot more consistent as you're not as reliant upon avoidance in your opener with losing MH swing rage generation. Just my two cents worth. If I were to do it again, I'd raid almost entirely in most of the content as Cleave spec which with a slow MH is actually pretty fkn good especially if you can snake an Enh in your group. But at the same time I've had it proven to me that you can tank everything up to SWP as Arms / Prot so long as you have good healers. Too bad Arms / Prot is just a clunky spec to play. In terms of cleave I won't lie up to 3 mobs Warrior or Bear I always struggle. Once those first seeds go out. Swipe and filler just doesn't hold threat. Warlocks in particular just hit soo hard, unless you're given time to generator multi-target threat they just get ripped off same as a spell dmg stacked paladin. Paladins were weird too because until they were T5 decked they were honestly unreliable as fuck. The gear just wasn't there to allow them to MT anything effectively. Their HP was always playing catch-up all the way until we got to end of T6 where their gear finally all balanced out stat wise to be similar to Warriors and Bears. It was a bit of a shit show beyond that they were just Trash / OTs. In terms of Prot War in LK - it's all because Warrior's don't have an auto save talent where as - Pallys have Ardent Defender: "Damage that takes you below 35% health is reduced by 20%. In addition, attacks which would otherwise kill you cause you to be healed by up to 30% of your maximum health (amount healed based on defense). This healing effect cannot occur more often than once every 2 min." - DKs have: "Damage that would take you below 35% health or taken while you are at 35% health is reduced by 15%." So a Pally will have the attack part below 35% reduced by 20% and the DK will have the whole attack reduced by 15%. So these are considered to reduced more wipes and thus make the tank a lot more survivable and why the Warrior and Bear to not be as good. The reality though is that it's agreed that if you take a disc priest as a Warrior pocket healer you can tank all normal mode 10 or 25 man content so long as you remain geared equivalent to the content. As a Bear you're still relevant even though you receive a nerf to armor values going into LK as you just naturally stack more HP and dodge. The big issue that defines the LK meta from Vanilla and TBC is the change from bosses doing primarily physical dmg to primarily spell dmg which Warriors and Bears have barely any spell mitigation what so ever where as a DK has Anti-Magic Shell and (31 pts Unholy - Anti-Magic Zone). A Prot Pally also naturally brings (11 pts Holy - Divine Sacrifice), however any paladin can talent into this ability. - Divine Sacrifice "30% of all damage taken by party members within 30 yards is redirected to the Paladin (up to a maximum of 40% of the Paladin's health times the number of party members). Damage which reduces the Paladin below 20% health will break the effect. Lasts 10 sec." - Anti-Magic Shell: "Surrounds the Death Knight in an Anti-Magic Shell, absorbing 75% of the damage dealt by harmful spells (up to a maximum of 50% of the Death Knight's health) and preventing application of harmful magical effects. Damage absorbed by Anti-Magic Shell energizes the Death Knight with additional runic power. Lasts 5 sec." - Anti-Magic Zone: "Places a large, stationary Anti-Magic Zone that reduces spell damage done to party or raid members inside it by 75%. The Anti-Magic Zone lasts for 10 sec or until it absorbs (10000 + 2 * Attack power) spell damage." Further DKs have Vampiric Blood one a 1 min CD which is considered to be better and more consistent than Last Stand which can be glyphed to a 2 min CD. - Vampiric Blood: "Temporarily grants the Death Knight 15% of maximum health and increases the amount of health generated through spells and effects by 35% for 10 sec. After the effect expires, the health is lost." - Last Stand: "When activated, this ability temporarily grants you 30% of your maximum health for 20 sec. After the effect expires, the health is lost." You can glyph ((-)2 min & (-)20% reduction) and talent ((-)1 min) Shield Wall to reduce it's CD from 5 min but at the cost of the amount of dmg reduced from 60% to 40% on a 2 min CD for 12 sec. Shield Wall - "Reduces all damage taken by 60% for 12 sec." So as you can see obviously Bear is effected but they bring a crit buff, lots of OS dmg, amongst other perks and lots of raw HP to zug through mechanics that you have to heal. Where as a Warrior has a higher chance of just dying due to less raw mitigation through armor and hp. The Paladin and DK have just straight up saves and more reductions that can reduce the healing required. With all of that being said, Zirene is suggesting in at least T7 he's going to run a Prot War + Feral Tank in 25 man Naxx Speed clears because they bring the most dmg, trash AOE and control required. Further for a high output comp Shattering Throw can be applied by a Prot Warrior with Tac Mastery that will produce a higher value debuff than Hysteria that a Blood DK might bring. So it's about playing min-max with buffs but for all dad guilds a Warrior will be able to tank all normal content. Come Heroic TOC and ICC we'll see how it pans out and there is a rumour going on from Warmane that Algalon use to always kill Warrior tanks in Ulduar but this was related to a long term bug that was not fixed for a very long time creating rumour. So we'll see how Classic Ulduar plays out; but a lot of World First guilds cleared the original LK content with Warrior MTs. Just be aware you are more reliant upon your disc priest and paladin with divine sac to have the abilities bound to you for instant reaction when called. The question is are Warriors better than Pallys for AOE trash tanking now? We'll see how the meta goes but they should be okay. One thing to note is that there are a lot of Warriors dying in 25 man Naxx to Patchwork in beta but that is mainly due to having shit starter gear and will change when Warriors are in full pre-bis. Also some bosses are doing crushing blows in LK beta so some things to know that don't let the Beta cement the meta as it's far from finished or ready to go. So so very many bugs. What we do know is that as usual Warriors are very gear dependent and you need to be on top of that. Also know that Blood is literal dog shit at the moment and need more gear before they start to work as intended, so a similar but slightly less punishing position than Warriors due to their talents / abilities on single target bosses but with zero AOE tanking ability the opposite of Warriors atm. Also we don't know how far Revenge tanking will go but it WILL require a high avoidance set to make it more consistent and viable. Right now beta starter gear gives 50% avoidance and we will be looking for 85-90% avoidance by the end of P1. This will will help threat for that spec round out as atm as it's great so long as you proc revenge and is amazing on anything with 2+ targets increasing your chance to avoid and thus proc. So we shall see. Long Live Warrior the Master Class!

[@josemartincobosortega1295]

Agree with you, the problem for the warrior in the lich king is the removal of the crushing blows and the adition to the other tanks ( dk and pally) the passive cheat death, I do not know what blizz was thinking when they decided to give something so good and in a passive way, also they got really good cd, the dk the last stand version of the warrior but improved, and the palading the shield wall version but improved because is a 50% mitigation on 3 min cd while the warrior is 60% of mitigation on a 5 mins of cd, the palis can reduce it into 2 mins by talents and the warriors to 4 mins by talents, still the pally version is better because can be use twice in a combat, the warrior can do the same with a glyph but the mitigation is reduced from 60% to 40% for a cd of 2 mins and 40%, much worst than pallys, the last stand is the same you can glyph it for a total of 2 mins cd, the problem here is that you need the glyph of the shield slam and the glyph of vengeance to generate agro so you have one slot left, I would go fo the shield wall glyph over the last stand. Given said all of that the warro has shield reflect which is really good and help in magic mitigation, also the warrior is the tank that offers the highest mitigation in the range above the 35% health thanks to the shield block and the critical block and the shield block spell, and is the only class to have two cd that are live savers, this means that the warrior can compete against dk and pally provided he is an active player, has to have the knowledge of when to use their four cds, shield block, spell reflection, last stand and shield wall while the other tanks are just passive tanks, they do not have to tank), the class just to the work from them, what a boring desing from blizz.!!!!! The last point that want to bring up is the thread generation, this is another thing that blizz did bad, giving that much thread generation to the dk and the pally means that nobody can turn the boss around which in my opinion is something substantial to the game, every player has to know that they if they go on rampage they will turn the boss against them and they have to live with that, they have to learn to do dps without stealing the agro to the tank, now those classes generate that much thread that everybody knows that the boss will never turn around, where is the fun in that ????. Last but not least, the warror in TBC was the best tank by far, I do not agree with the guy of the video that the bears and pallys were better.

[@JoeyStock]

Thanks for this you just said my thoughts out loud. I was a bit scared based on those tier lists that rest druid will suck ... but I'm hoping that they are just made up as you said.

[@lkaszu6599]

Necerium be like take care, drink water and here's how to commit a construction sabotage

[@MtgajaxGaming]

I agree with you 1000%. I've been super excited for the chance to play a death knight and no one knows exactly how strong certain specs will be. I never took the time to try DK out, so classic wotlk seems like the perfect opportunity. All I see are videos about how unholy is omega S+++ tier for leveling and the other specs are much slower and therefore not viable. I think the truth lies much closer to a more balanced leveling experience between the specializations. I have been doing a little testing on the beta (no idea why the gods chose me), but blood seems very well rounded and almost better in the 60-70 journey so far. I know unholy has some movement speed talents and more aoe....but I can pull decently large packs and kill them fairly efficiently with near full health by the end of it as blood. I think the best spec for each person can vary a little based on the individual's playstyle. Anyway, I always enjoy your new and out-of-the-box thinking style. Please keep it up, I'm a big fan and have watched your numbers grow in the last few years. I have a few beta videos on my channel testing some dungeon solo and aoe packs if you are interested in a blood tank to add to your list of tank characters, lol. Cheers!

[@SuperN0vaNexus]

I've been running around as Blood dk with a bit of frost for dps, I'm in full brutal gear and going around as an undying killing machine is great :D

[@EinherjerZombie]

Played original wotlk as warrior. Warrior tanks are "needed" on some fights with shield block cap. Also there's dualspec. So you can play as titan's grip fury dps with armor pen. Warriors are strongest the later into the expansion you get.

[@c2thewick]

Prot warrior since lvl 10, not stopping now

[@bradsmith5730]

Once i stopped caring about tier lists and just played whichever class and spec that I enjoyed most, the game became 10x the fun. I don't play hardcore anymore i would consider myself casual, but i have never been denied for a group to do any of the content that i wanted. maybe it matters more when your doing like bleeding edge top level content but to 99 percent of players I would always recommend to play whatever is most fun for you, and only look up guides to learn the mechanics of the class you WANT to play, not guides that tell you WHAT to play.

[@fash0cs]

This is entirely true lol I quit tbc during phase 4 but now have returned and am enjoying beta. - rogue/port war enjoyer

[@rmjyqcdntxtu3389]

When you hear warriors are dungeon tanks, it's because they are *phenomenal* in dungeons, not because they would be bad xD Even on private servers ppl bring warriors all the time. They have the best dps/threat on single target, mitigagion is not bad at all and I think Shield Block as cooldown is underestimated on single target. The dps tier lists will be off most of time if they only cover ICC - last phase where item level and stats go way up and everything is scaling to absurd numbers. (Fun fact: with BiS gear and stacking crit, you can have fire mage with 100% crit chance. That's how absurd ICC patch can get.) For example mages (all fire/frostfire/arcane) have poor single target dps and big mana issues, but when they get tons of crit (in ICC patch) they suddenly hit that threshold where: all spells are cheaper bacause crits return mana, and frostfire becomes better because it has larger crit bonus. But for this every tier lists puts them to highest tear.

[@farkasantonio8363]

dude you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about just shut it you spew complete aberrations

[@hcs626]

Im a pve arms main, you cant convince that arms does good dmg vs the effort/feel of rotation, fury is good for sure tho anyone who says its trash is just silly

[@HappyFaceSticker]

The warrior stans came out and showed the world how wrong the tier lists were. We knew back in the day about halfway through the expac that UA had some big potential. Before the talent was changed to hit 2 targets, it still had the stun, so you could reverse-uno-card a rogue in PVP with that thing. Heroic Strike was changed to be a 3-second ogcd as well, but before that, it was FREE on every swing of a fast weapon with the revenge glyph. As far as threat was concerned, you just shit all over the other tanks. The final form of Imp.Revenge lost the PVP focus, but was a huge buff for PVE -- but I think at that point, people were just set in their ways.

[@Tdiehl717]

Raids opening in beta soonish according to a blue post no?

[@Redbauer]

Every class is vaible in every role in wotlk but- if u wanna min max, paladin tank is the best tank (Utility/instant "oh shit button"). Do 99.9% care? nope, me neither. i hate playing paladin- its boring for me.

[@brokenage1952]

I'm going to dispute your claim on Prot Warriors in TBC. Just like you, I play all 3 tanks but Prot Warrior being my main. I always see people saying "Oh my alt prot warrior fucking sucks in comparison to my Prot Pally" You're comparing your t6 geared main to a Kara/ZA geared alt??? That's literally like me trying to say "Prot Warriors are overall better tanks than Prot Paladins" because my prot pally is in t4/5 and za gear lol. Of course it's not up to par. I'm not saying prot warriors can dish out as much single target threat as a bear, but I can certainly do more single target threat than a 4pc t6 geared prot paladin(even on an undead target) with the right gear. The ability to produce decent threat+having the best defensive cooldowns of any tank make them an easy choice to bring. You can make the argument that prot warriors are only good for progging and not speed running and ya know what I wont argue that. It's better to have 2 ferals and a prot pally, but push comes to shove you'll want a prot warrior on the hardest hitting bosses over a bear or a prot paladin. The bear is literally a meat shield with no CDs and the prot paladin has very little in his tool kit. Last stand/shield block/shieldwall

[@Redbauer]

"prot paladin has very little in his tool kit" what?? - paladin brings insane utility

[@brokenage1952]

@@Redbauer In TBC prot paladin has no defensive tool kit really. Not saying the class doesn't bring anything valuable.

[@Bawheidbob]

360 p team

[@Sikthg]

Screw wotlk, come play Everlook with me instead Cloudes!

[@neceriumcloudes5381]

Im probably going to play there! Will see how much time i'll have available tho ;)

[@mortekrieger2291]

I love how people try and tier out tanks and write some of them off, in reality no tank = no raid so just get on with it. 90% of players are nowhere near too tier so shouldn't even be considering the implications of min maxing. You'll be lucky to have a full 25 group survive something like heigan in naxx simply because they derp out and get killed by a simple mechanic let alone squeezing out that final 2% top tier damage.

[@bradsmith5730]

lol that was my old raid group back in Wotlk. but about 20 of the 25 people were friends and co workers so we suffered through it haha. Being on vent with everyone was worth it though. best times of my WoW life lol.

[@mortekrieger2291]

@@bradsmith5730 absolutely, I remember 6 wipes in a row on heigan just because of movement on the last one we only had me (holy pally) and the tank (feral) alive we refused to stop and made them all watch us for 25 minutes after they all died just slowly chip away at him till he dies, we used it as a warning, get better or suffer us doing g it the hard way every week. Love a boss with no enrage lol.

[@DarkInos]

0:50 "I have played all 3 tankers." But have you played tank rogue, or steelclad boomkin tank?! HA?! :P Just joking :P

[@Snotgul]

First

[@Epicdps]

Hard agree on 'don't listen to people who can't explain their arguments'. Surely you aren't showing Unrelenting Assault Warrior and calling it Protection Warrior though, are you? That's an extremely niche spec used for farming/heroics and won't be used as a tank spec in raids unless maybe you're the #1 guild in the world be because you're missing literally like 3/4 of the entire protection tree to get this spec :P I think you'll probably flop on 25 man content even with OG WOTLK boss damage values... And apparently naxx is being buffed anyway... So it really doesn't look to good for tanks without active mitigation, spell damage based threat (hard punished on a dodge/parry) with insane modifiers and defensives on short cooldowns... Which is pretty much what prot warrior and feral druid lack compared to prot paladin and blood dk Hence why they are not optimal, regardless of tier lists, that's just a fact sadly :X

[@fuzionwowauberdine802]

Paladin spells can not be resisted ? Shield Block is not an active mitigation (on short cooldown) ? At least Last Stand is not a defensive on short cooldown ? The cooldown of Shield Wall was not reduced ? The main argument I have seen in most videos is : "Look, paladin have ardent defender so they can not die" Yeah, sure, if you do not know how to tank and do not want to put effort in it, play paladin. I am not saying that the warrior is the best tank, but it is not the garbage some people are describing and it will certainly remain my prefered tank class in WOTLK because it is (for me) the most fun to play (perhaps with DK). Side note : I think that block value is an underestimated stat in TBC and it will be even more valuable in WOTLK.

[@Epicdps]

@@fuzionwowauberdine802 It's definitely not garbage as some people are saying, and it's without a doubt going to be able to tank every piece of content in wrath classic (during progression) as it's not going to be buffed like buffed private servers, it's just going to need a bit of help with threat. Is there a cap on block value in TBC? I know there's a block value cap on shield slam damage in wrath, but I'm not sure about block value cap in terms of how much damage you can block. I love protection warrior tanking, it was one of my first loves in WoW. I was very much saddened when people wouldn't take me over prot paladins, just as I was saddened by the fact that I would struggle really hard with threat if I wasn't constantly getting tricks of the trade from rogues, disallowing them from using it to buff other people's damage, and struggle REALLY hard if there were no rogues or hunters at all which is not uncommon in 10 mans (and certainly 5 mans, albeit trivial content). People would call me a trash tank, and I'm like dude, I'm pressing all my threat abilities in the correct order of priority to do as much TPS as possible, the only thing I can do to improve my threat is to wear DPS gear which will KILL ME... Feral struggles with threat too, just like warrior. Very frustrating. Then I tried paladin tanking and I was like okay I can literally roll my face on my keyboard and still hold aggro... At least with DK you have to try hard to hold AOE threat, but single target threat is a joke with rune resets + icy touch opener.

[@fuzionwowauberdine802]

@@Epicdps I think that, in the end, if you are not in a try hard guild and just want to clear the content with players you are enjoying playing with, it can be summerized by 'Play what you want and have fun'. I have played Prot Warrior since the beginning of WoW Classic and so far I cleared all the content with it, except Sunwell, without struggling that much with aggro. I am not saying that I would be able to hold aggro with real try hard DPS but I am doing fine with the ones I am playing with.

[@Epicdps]

@@fuzionwowauberdine802 indeed :) that will be the case for many many guilds, much more than in TBC/classic I think due to how historically popular WOTLK is among casuals, now that many of those wrathbabies are grown up with babies of their own, a relaxed playstyle will definitely be popular compared to the more sweaty playstyle

[@josemartincobosortega1295]

@@fuzionwowauberdine802 indeed the warrior provided you are above the 35% of health is the tank that provides the more mitigation of all of them because of the shield block the block value and the critical block mechanics , and then there are bonus sets for tier 8 and tier 10 that give to the warriors magic mitigaton