This family portrait cost a fortune

Caroline Roper, Ella Hubber and Tom Lum from 'Let's Learn Everything!' face a question about a pricey portrait.
LATERAL is a weekly podcast about interesting questions and even more interesting answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit www.lateralcas...
GUESTS:
Caroline Roper: / carolinethebug
Ella Hubber: / ellahubber
Tom Lum: / tomlumperson
Let's Learn Everything podcast: www.letslearne...
HOST: Tom Scott.
QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe.
RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin.
EDITED BY: Julie Hassett.
GRAPHICS: Chris Hanel at Support Class. Assistant: Dillon Pentz.
MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com).
FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd.
EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
© Pad 26 Limited (www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2024.

[@UngodlyFreak]

In case anyone's curious, £1,500 in 1904 would be worth nearly £230,000 in today's money.

[@panda4247]

and yet, these -NFTs- stamps gain even more value over time

[@MyRegardsToTheDodo]

@@panda4247 But the hobby is dying out. They really showed their ages on this podcast (well, except for Tom, who should have gotten that earlier), because of how long it took them to come up with "stamp" as the answer, I personally had the answer sometime between the three and four minute mark, but that's because I grew up in a time were stamps and letters were still somewhat relevant. So with less demand, prices will probably drop in the future, even for the famous Blue Mauritius. And by the way, it's not true that they were sold to the public by accident. Yes, the governor's wife used them to send her invitations to a costume ball before the official sale date to the public (she used them on September 21, 1847 and they were sold to the public starting one day later on September 22, 1847), but the stamps weren't printed just for her invitation, they were absolutely intended to be sold to the public. And another side note: The ones bidding against King George V.'s agent (he didn't bid himself) were actually the German Reichspostmuseum.

[@MannyBrum]

At least 20% of that inflation was since 2019 😂

[@Thermalions]

We need to dive deeper on Ella's hobbies. She sounds like a unique cross between my grandmother who was alive when this auction took place and my nerdiest friends.

[@bassofclubs]

Have you listened to her podcast?

[@Thermalions]

@@bassofclubs Np, I guess I should check it out. Cheers.

[@AFNacapella]

Tom: "I know nothing about historical dating..." _a wild J.Draper suddenly appears._

[@KernelLeak]

_something something_ C-14 _something_

[@toddverbeek5113]

I’m disappointed that the youngs didn’t tease Tom about being old enough to remember historical dating first-hand. :)

[@stamfordly6463]

He also forgot about Edward VII who was King in 1904.

[@mushroomsoup2866]

It kinda feels like cheating being a stamp collector who is also royalty? Like he could have just issued himself a one-of-a-kind stamp with his own face wearing groucho marx glasses

[@JasperJanssen]

Yes, but it’s not a contest.

[@JoeBleasdaleReal]

As soon as Tom said it’s somewhere between brooch and money, I immediately shouted “STAMP! STAMP! STAMP!” and confused everyone in my train carriage. Also, loving the red shirt synergy 😂😂😂🚶‍♂️

[@whyamiwastingmytimeonthis]

SPOILERS!!!

[@Molikai]

I said 'stamp' as soon as I saw the date.

[@timothymclean]

Like Tom, I assumed Tom meant "somewhere between brooch and figurehead" and wondered if there was some kind of miniature boat craze in the early 20th century. Perhaps with paintings on the sides, like WW2-era bombers.

[@JimFaindel]

I love the fact everyone's wearing red shirts. You certainly miss those jokes on the podcast version.

[@JonReevesLA]

It was mentioned in the intro of the podcast.

[@richards7909]

Can we all admire Ella’s cat waking up and deciding to groom itself? :)

[@kayleighlehrman9566]

It was a Panini sticker, and he put it in his World Leaders of 1899 Panini sticker booklet

[@ptrknvk]

I still hope she'll help England on this Euro. Fingers crossed XX.

[@retrogiftsuk4812]

I'm amazed at how long it took them to get from money to stamps. They are the 2 things famous for having the monarch on.

[@bartman999]

I'm guessing it's a generational thing: I still grew up with letters and postcards, people who've grown up with the internet hardly see stamps any more, let alone that they would think to collect them.

[@hebl47]

@@bartman999 Tom is definitely old enough to have used many letters, postcards and stamps.

[@bartman999]

@@hebl47 he’s the one that got it, eventually.

[@TheAlps36]

I really thought it was the Penny Black he was trying to buy

[@timothymclean]

My guess: Either they were hung up on "unconventional portrait" and were trying to think of something weirder, or they forgot "unconventional portrait" and were trying to think of something normaler.

[@lkh511981]

"I play Queen Victoria in attack mode!" LMAO Ok but now I need someone to make a TCG of historical monarchs!

[@wafelsen]

You wouldn’t be bidding against the King of England but against the Prince of Wales, right? And it was probably some anonymous agent doing the bidding where no one knew it was for PoW until later, right?

[@notkaty]

I wouldn't use PoW as the abbreviation in this case...

[@wafelsen]

@@notkaty I know it is more commonly used for something else, but I think it is pretty clear what is meant here. Is there a compelling reason not to in this case?

[@empath69]

"You are technically correct. The best kind of correct." Come on over to the pedants' table - we've got biscuits with all the broken or defective ones removed so you'll feel right at home...

[@dee4634]

KG5 was never prince of wales, that was his older brother .

[@IngrainedReason]

@@dee4634That was George VI. George V was Prince of Wales during the reign of his father, Edward VII.

[@stephenmstanley]

Knew this one as soon as the question was read out - I think this was in one of the Horrible Histories books? (Can’t remember which one!) Shortly afterwards, a courtier supposedly asked the prince: “Did you happen to see in the newspapers that some damned fool has paid as much as £1,400 for [this portrait]?” “Yes”, Prince George replied, “I was that damned fool!”

[@Albatross-365]

I think it was mentioned in The King's Speech which is how I knew about him collecting them

[@jblen]

As soon as they said money was close I realised. Toms even done a video about this type of portrait and how valuable they can be

[@authorinthedark]

has this group done any collabs with Answers in Progress? They all just bring a great vibe to the show and I need them all to be in a room collectively making fun of Tom Scott for being old

[@lateralcast]

AIP introduced us to LLE!

[@sortius_]

I was like "oh, Tom Scott will get this straight away after having done that episode on the most expensive thing by weight". Tom Scott: MONEY! 🤨

[@AICommentator2.0]

I always love when the LLE cast is on Lateral, it is always funny.

[@BulbasaurRepresent]

Ella collects Doctor Who stamps??? I knew there was a reason these lot are my favourite guests!

[@greensteve9307]

I got it at 5:30 when Tom said "cards". That might be the first time I've guessed it right before the team!

[@StarkRG]

"It's a collectable." Ella, a collector: Is it any of the kinds of things that I have? Do I have the portrait? Am I George V?

[@dylanrambow2704]

Tom's fashion influence is spreading

[@tomthornton6259]

Took me a while to guess, but as soon as he said 'old fashioned hobby' and collecting I immediately got it. I'm just surprised the others didn't!!

[@hannahk1306]

I was practically shouting stamps from the moment it was confirmed that it wasn't money and the look on Tom's face said they were close!

[@Rei-Rei]

Always happy to see a collection of Yotsuba sitting on the shelf behind Tom Lum.

[@TrainBoi227]

I have yet to finish but I'm screaming "STAMPS!! STAMPS!!" because I'm surprised they haven't thrown it out

[@macdjord]

Ella, your tuxedocat is wonderful! Please give him(?) many pets!

[@ellahubber]

I will!!

[@Psyxhotic]

Can someone tell me if the red shirt was planned. Was there any reaction to Tom just seeing everyone in red

[@VeeBot]

Yes, and yes. Tom breaks completely while introducing the episode.

[@Speedster___]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y6OUmWiQltKLmcksi=i3H7woueO0tqpD9M

[@missitheachievementhuntres560]

I found that it is episode 80 but can we see the response somewhere instead of only listening?

[@grmpf]

​@@missitheachievementhuntres560 Tom Lum has an upload of the initial realisation.

[@ShannonKWest]

I noticed the red shirts, too! But in the back of my mind I think I watched a video last week and all were also wearing red.

[@Epinardscaramel]

I remember Tom Scott saying that when you hear "portaits" in a quizz, you have to think money or stamps 😅

[@davidshi451]

Reminds me of Graham Sutherland's portrait of Winston Churchill, who hated it so much that he had it destroyed because it made him "look like a down-and-out drunk who has been picked out of the gutter in the Strand," and "It makes me look as if I were straining a stool"

[@masitaj]

Can't believe it took tom that long to guess lol but the guesses were fun haha

[@epiendless1128]

"We have the preliminary sketches." - Blackadder

[@timmcdaniel6193]

YES! I was coming here to comment that, and I am saddened that they don't know about that episode of the Elizabethan-era Blackadder, with the Baby-Eating Bishop of Bath and Wells and Lord Percy dressed in a pink leather tutu.

[@nivalshade]

Sorry, urgent issue here, does anyone know the name of Ella's cat over there? IT'S ADORABLE

[@RoweClementine]

His name is Charlie I think

[@nivalshade]

​@@RoweClementinethank you you are my hero Have a wonderful day!

[@GryphLane]

Wish the editor stayed with Ella long enough to see their biiiiiiiig stretch at 5:30

[@ellahubber]

This one is Teddy

[@nivalshade]

@@ellahubber Thank you! This episode was wonderful too ❤️

[@edsimnett]

Compared with UK GDP in 1904 that would represent about £2 million pounds today (there are lots of ways to do this calculation, but as the amount is far above the cost of a weekly shop, monthly rent or average annual wages it is likely better than a classic "inflation" measure)

[@Alex.HFA1]

Didn't Tom Scott do a video on this exact type of stamp?

[@Elwaves2925]

First guess for me is a stamp. Maybe a Penny Black if that existed at the time. Ooh, I was almost right. Half yay to me.

[@Alsadius]

Regarding Tom Lum's comment at 7:43, I disagree. If it's worth $1-2M today, call it 1.2 million quid to make the math easy. Growing by a factor of 1000 over 120 years is an annualized rate of just under 6% growth. So no, they'd have done better buying into the stock market, or maybe even just loaning it to the government.

[@edwardphilibin3151]

Having just rewatched the first "live" edition of Citation Needed, I am quite amused that all four of these people are (a) wearing red t-shirts, that (b) happen to be not quite the same shade of red. Except in this case I'm pretty sure it is just a coincidence, since this is mostly meant to be enjoyed as an audio-only podcast. 😉😂

[@MegaLokopo]

Tom Scott, Master of Historical Dating. Not dates just how people dated.

[@pjabrony8280]

I figured it out because I remembered the story "The Iron Gem."

[@1st1anarkissed]

Its hilarious how long it took to remember. But then its an ols service rarely used.

[@avirajsinghmehta1857]

I just realised in this episode while others are wearing Tom Scott red t shirts although Tom Scott is not wearing his iconic Red T Shirt its more maroon than Red

[@OscatJ]

Someone once offered me their stamp collection in exchange for a plane ticket, I couldn't do it, they aren't legal tender and philately will get you nowhere

[@bbateson]

I don't know what's wrong with me, but I got the answer almost instantly.

[@jackdog06]

The fact they went to “Queen Victoria Top Trumps” first is wild.

[@dracaga]

A cute cat in the background 😺❤

[@tomtrevatt3286]

I was shouting STAMP for about two minutes before they finaaaaaally got it

[@adammullarkey4996]

7:35 Correction: Future king. He didn't take the throne until 1910.

[@outbakjak]

MORE TOM, ELLA AND CAROLINE, I love them! 💜🐝💜🐌💜 (but mostly Ella, Ella is bae)

[@geoffroi-le-Hook]

Well if it wasn't on the money, was it on a postage stamp? (3:45)

[@ArifRWinandar]

It must have been the world's most expensive object by weight back then.

[@empath69]

a rare never-supposed-to-be-released-to-the-public stamp that only numbered in like a couple of dozen left at the time? Hell yeah - it was probably the holy grail for stamp collectors of the era.

[@Phred_Phlintstoner]

They have doctor who stamps in Britain?!? I have to get some!

[@axeavier]

Why aren't there any guests in this episode? All I see is just Tom 4 times

[@PixelatedPenfold]

What I was trying to say but you put it much better.

[@catherinebutler4819]

I was so sure it was going to be George's other grandmother, Louise of Hesse-Kassel...

[@wafelsen]

My first question would have been “was this Queen Victoria or the other one?”

[@elliottmcollins]

I'm just a *huge* fan of Ella's hat.

[@pookhahare]

First color print?

[@josephfoulger9628]

Stamps usually have the monarch in profile, not portrait

[@Oddlot0930]

I can't for the life of me figure out why Tom Scott put himself 3 extra times in this video.

[@pookhahare]

Cost due type of print?

[@pierremaiden]

is there a reason for team red shirt in todays clip ?

[@stfuyfc69420]

I like how you are all wearing a red shirt

[@michael5549]

Red shirt Lateral

[@dirtywaterpj_dj]

I was shouting “postage stamp!” at screen for a good four minutes there. 😂

[@TarunoNafs]

Stamps are a kind of currency, basically a kind of money, right?

[@JessicaRainbow]

Today I learned that Americans can't pronounce Mauritius correctly...

[@maxderp6588]

"How 'bout that Queen?" - The Naked Gun 😂😅

[@tomgidden]

He really wanted to impress his grandmother; it was purely an act of philatterly. (badum-tish) (I got this one as soon as the question came up… not my hobby, but I've heard the story elsewhere.)

[@sergl8878]

is it the last time we have seen tom in a red t shirt..?:(

[@Adriano_leal]

Took me a moment to realize they were all wearing red

[@cybergeek11235]

They really should have tried buttering up Tom Lum a bit more on this. . . . You know, because philately will get you everywhere.

[@Speedster___]

Can’t wait for new episodes. David do you know when the episode will come out? A month? Multiple months?

[@John-Smith-999]

Why is everyone wearing Tom's signature red T-shirt?

Me, screaming Stamp non-stop...

[@andrewmartin3671]

I had to go back because I was sure I heard "Invitations to a brawl".

[@donaldasayers]

Philately will get you everywhere.

[@Ellie.A]

Is there a reason everyone's wearing a red t-shirt?

[@square1k]

If you've seen "The King's Speech", you may know the answer right away.

[@shambhav9534]

I thought it was a chess piece.

[@Yupppi]

Must be the first time I hear thousand five hundred instead of fifteen hundred. Old fashioned collectible would be post stamp.

[@panda4247]

4:19 "why would I put [weird cut] my face?" "we're just gonna let that one slide" seems like there was more to that question that was not suitable for the public? like "why would I put (something) on my face?" or something like that? Now I want to know more!

[@bigduginc]

I thought she said "Where would i put my face?" which led to Tom's quick turn away.

[@seabream]

@panda4247 I'm pretty sure that there wasn't anything removed. They probably just switched to the four person view so we could see all their reactions. @bigduginc has the right of it. Those are the words in the captions, and there are definitely enough non-family-friendly options (a couple of which pop to mind immediately to me, and them) with that for Tom (Scott) to encourage moving along, and Tom (Lum) to have a high pitched giggle and duck out of frame, followed by an attempt to put an innocent spin on it. Part of the funny thing about it is being able to see Ella realizing the implications as the words are being said, but too late to avoid them.

[@fourtrifiveo4350]

why is everyone wearing red

[@tendnotto]

why’s everyone in tom cosplay in this episode lol

[@raphaelnikolaus0486]

I must say, I was a bit puzzled/irritated by the collective red shirts on the first vid, although I really love the idea, but actually now with the second vid I really think it does look (and feel) good.

[@celardore]

Is everyone wearing red t shirts deliberate?

[@MrDannyDetail]

"Can you imagine being the person bidding against the King of England?" In 1904 he was still Prince of Wales. Also his dad was King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, not King of England, the latter title having ceased to exist about 200 years previously. Also I knew instantly that this was a question about stamps, but just couldn't recall the exact stamp.

[@petertaylor4980]

And the British Dominions, and Emperor of India.

[@pookhahare]

Stamp?

[@wyrdlg]

Ella, if I...

[@SteveBluescemi]

Lol are they all cosplaying as Tom?

[@MakooWallinen]

I was hnestly more interested in ellas eollections

[@rasakamarauskaite]

stamp!!!!

[@nymalous3428]

Why the red shirts?

[@lforlight]

Tom forced them to do it

[@craftsmanwoodturner]

@@lforlight Just so long as none of them beam down on an away mission...

[@RoweClementine]

That’s the new uniform Tom is making all of the guests wear now

[@HaniaTauqeer-c2k]

Stamp

[@AFNacapella]

the lateral clips are such an instaclick for me.

[@Simon-fg8iz]

Are stamps so out of date that young people don't even remember they exist? I thought of stamps immediately, it's a #1 thing that comes to mind when talking about collectibles :)

[@craftsmanwoodturner]

Governments worldwide found out in the seventies that the more pretty stamps they printed, the more they sold to collectors. They basically poisoned the well with too many issues.

[@cyberfutur5000]

Not an expert and not an attempt to spoil or even answer anything, but still I'll spoiler protect it, just in case... ... ::: George V. was he Elizabeth II. father? Because I've sen printed portraits of her on... well money. Money can be worth even more than 1500Pounds. And was his grandma Victoria then? Because her face would be on anything, the whole damn era was named after her, even in places where she didn't reign, like Germany (other than "Edwardian", an era Germans would call "Wilhelminisch". Ok that, at the end there, was the most I was screaming inside towards the screen I one of these.

[@SylviaRustyFae]

As someone who has a special interest in heraldry, hearin Tom Lum mention emblazonin his face everywhere made me want to know another thing... Can someone blazon a face? Id love to hear someone try to describe a face in heraldic speak

[@wafelsen]

(Tincture of face, not touching that one), a nose between in chief two eyes fesswise irised azure and in base a mouth gules Much fun could be had with which is the primary (and thus largest) charge. For Obama you could depict the two supporters as ears. For Jay Leno, a chin, in chief the rest of the face. And so on.

[@Dragantraces]

"Dour" doesn't rhyme with "sour". It's rhymes with 'do-er', (or tour or your, when pronounced correctly).

[@ToppyTree]

You have a very strange definition of "correct."

[@randomguy-tg7ok]

You could have just said "door".

[@ChrisHatt]

Strange given that all three words are pronounced differently in my English accent!

[@randomguy-tg7ok]

@@ChrisHatt Which three words are you referring to?

[@ChrisHatt]

@@randomguy-tg7ok Dour (dow-er, the e is a schwa) and does rhyme with sour (sow-er, that is sow as in female pig) , tour (to-er, also a schwa) and your (yaw). All in my native-born southern English accent. Door is d-or.