This Feature is Deeper Than You Think in Empire at War

[@philippobitz2592]

Han and Chewie being the "Vehicle_Steal_Team" has me picturing them hijacking AT-ST after AT-ST all on their own while Vader chases after them, slicing through the walkers to get to them, throwing his saber whenever they're on foot.

[@tornadragon4047]

Basically what happens when you play EAW

[@austindixon8645]

I honestly thought that I had just been hallucinating when I remembered that feature

[@Capt_CrimsoN]

Same and it's impossible to find any footage of hero clashes on YT until this video appeared. I think it only ever happened once for me in the many hours spent playing vanilla.

[@Jin-1337]

Petroglyph were thinking ahead of their time. All the more reason why we need EAW2 😭

[@DRUGGED_PARAMILITARY]

No way current publishers will release something that's not live service hero shooter/open world slop, let alone drop an RTS

[@grzegorzcembruch2834]

The chances they won't drop the ball over a star wars product are tiny

[@marcosmauricio7805]

​@@grzegorzcembruch2834 To be fair, Petroglyph is still updating the game to this day, so I'd expect a good outcome if they can ever make a sequel on their terms The main issue rests on that last point, I can see an overseer screwing them over

[@timesnewlogan2032]

Base game: $60 Heroes pack: $30 Vehicles pack: $30 Consortium pack: $40

[@thekommunistkrusader3921]

​@@grzegorzcembruch2834 they actually recently released a ww1 grand strategy game, imo its good, perhaps a bit unbalanced at times including the fact the German tanks are just kinda better than the british...

[@ZephyrKitten742]

Stuff like this and Dawn of War's sync kills are always some of my favorite parts of RTSes, the little flourishes the devs add to make the game feel more cinematic and more than just two sides of army men shooting at each other until one side falls down. It does often result in me zooming in to watch as my forces get run over by a tank due to my negligence, but it's worth it. Awesome video Corey, always love your stuff!

[@Doherty0182]

Same with total war: warhammer and halo wars, it’s mostly passion from the devs doing them in their spare time in most cases. Gotta love it

[@juncheok8579]

Love sync kills from Total War: Shogun 2, seeing like 10 elite katana samurai take on 80 yari ashigaru is insane

[@pearcemiller]

The way Vader runs off like a kid who broke something after dropping Obi is hilarious. Also, I love seeing little details like these that you really elaborate on, thanks for the vid!

[@goldenfiberwheat238]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone call obi wan “obi”

[@GavenJr]

I'm surprised so many people didn't know about this. I always had to be paying attention to it, since Obi Wan usually ends up loosing without his invincibility ability being used on himself

[@ryancarrell3186]

I have 500+ hours in EAW and I don't think I've ever seen a hero clash lmao I'm very conservative with where and when I use my heroes, but I had no idea they even existed.

[@rterte7110]

I played EAW as a kid and knew about it because it was written about in the game manual

[@mirrorslash028]

This only happens in vanilla EaW, not Forces of Corruption

[@youcefsiouda]

​@@mirrorslash028 No it happened to me on foc I may be wrong since it was a long time ago 👴🏻

[@Fallub]

Great video showcasing this lesser known stuff. Thank you.

[@heavyarms55]

I think that I understand why both the official game and modders don't use this. For those of us who HAVE played this game - you rarely, during game play, how often do we really focus close enough on individual human sized infantry to appreciate this extra level of detail.

[@path_090]

Often actually, especially with cinematic camera

[@shanehudson3995]

It'd helpful when you're playing say, Fall of the Republic, and you're wondering why your hero just got deleted. It was probably Windu.

[@heavyarms55]

@@path_090 Not during gameplay you aren't. You can't give orders or direct your units like that.

[@WarCriminal-y1u]

​@@heavyarms55you can give orders and watch them carry orders out. I pay attention to fights all the time in that game

[@heavyarms55]

@@WarCriminal-y1u I mean, I get that it's fun to watch, I do too sometimes. But like, you're gonna lose doing that for large parts of the battle... That's what I like Instant Action for. I can set up those fights and watch them play out with no concern for lost units.

[@revanlord05]

I always loved this little detail, the lightsaber duels, it was that solidified my opinion that ground combat wasn't that bad. That... and the Saber Tanks.

[@flyboymb]

The special fight animation of Yoda using his meth out ability and every soldier, Sith, and creature around him falling down dead.

[@elderliddle2733]

What if you tried to simplify it using hero tags and animations for the types of heroes meeting? An example would be “Smuggler” vs “Sith”. It plays an animation showing them fight based on their tag matchup, but the heroes have their own unique stats they use in these clashes. A small code to calculate the winner would be all you need. Then you can add unique attack and defense modifiers that are unique to each hero. For example in a Swotor Mod, you would have Jace Malcom as a “soldier” type hero with his own stats. When paired against a “Sith” type hero, he gains a damage multiplier making him more likely to win. The “Sith” type hero Malgus has his own stats, but only gains a multiplier against “Jedi” type heroes. So in this matchup Jace Malcom wins in most cases unless other units are assisting or buffs are active on Malgus.

[@CoreyLoses]

You can't modify them that way, you can't change what XML tags object types use, nor what object type XML tags are looking for.

[@nicholasessary7987]

@@CoreyLoses But, but, Mr. Loses I really wanbet to see th heoro duel :)

[@thecatfather857]

The fact they didn’t even try to make one for Yoda vs Sidious in Forces of Corruption is such a missed opportunity. Though in hindsight, Revenge of the Sith didn’t exist yet, so Petroglyph could never have anticipated the need to make one.

[@goldenfiberwheat238]

Revenge of the sith came out in 2005

[@thecatfather857]

@@goldenfiberwheat238 Why did I always think it came out in 2007??

[@goldenfiberwheat238]

@ idk

[@death-king1834]

No, it did. Episode III came out in 2005. Empire at War was released a year later.

[@123456gordon]

Reminds me of the synched animations or matched combat of Total War (older) games. Interesting feature, but clearly a bit painful to implement, since every character will need their own animations and it can be very buggy. Even in the latest TWs matched combat was fairly problematic at times, I think Shogun 2 has the most fluid ones. Granted, here it was just a one on one, so it's slightly easier to implement.

[@TheAdmirableAdmiral]

I have actually seen the hero clash between vader and obiwan and always thought it was cool. I could have swarn yoda and luke had one with the emperor but now I am not sure if i misremembered that

[@thecatfather857]

Yeah it is. They don’t sadly.

[@jacobaderholdt7233]

I played mp gc vanilla eaw game with a buddy i recently got into the gamd and noticed it, never realized just how crazy detailed the dueling was, this game is one of a kind man

[@TheAndrewJohnBennett]

I love learning more in-depth about one of my favorite mechanics in this game.

[@yissnakkjr8230]

it would be nice to see something like this return in some form in EAWX mods, even if they don't particularly vary. It'd just be nice to see jedi/sith heroes actually having clashes with one another rather than just wailing on each other wildly, even if they might end up using the same animations.

[@EthanKironus8067]

...how detailed is this game?! It honestly scares me. How does someone manage the ground battles and the space ones across a whole campaign at once???

[@stonemanofgardnerville1162]

Its a mixs of its and turn based but thay doesn't mean it's not hard

[@amerifatcheeseburger]

Would be sweet to see more lightsaber clashes in mods if people can get around to it

[@smmk88]

Reminds me of the animations in the Halo Wars games. Great stuff!

[@imperialguardgeneralsturnn3629]

Didn't know about there being clashes for boba initially, That is really neat. I wonder if the triggers for these could leave it open for a dedicated enough group to make some duels happen with other characters then as well. Probably wishful thinking, plus it would definitely be more of a side thing for the exceptionally dedicated.

[@Jin-1337]

It'd be very resource intensive to make animations for them

[@chimera6485]

Hey Corey, this is kind of off topic but will the resurgence ever be added to thrawns revenge in the same way the new republic has different Canon ship options to build? Maybe either for a later tech level that isn't added yet or only for skirmish ect. Thank you and the development team so much for making my favorite mods both for empire at war and for sins of a solar empire.

[@NiiRubra]

I remember seeing this stuff when poking around in the files, never actually seen it in game though. EaW clearly had a big focus on cinematic presentation, and this showcases that focus pretty well, but gameplay wise, it's... I'm afraid it's terrible. Like you said, losing control of your precious hero to a cutscene, in which you have no input whatsoever, is not desirable, and Vader also has a better chance of winning by default? Nah, wouldn't like it.

[@theschwabmob8363]

It was only in Base EAW for one, and 2nd; While you can't *directly* affect their duel, you *can* indirectly via usage of certain abilities. For Example: Obi-Wan's Force Heal & Force Protect in Vanilla actually gives him the win 90% of the time to memory, because he simply tanks more hits. Also you can bombing run/Orbital Strike the duel to deal hefty damage to the enemy hero. Ironically since Vader lacks any duel-specific abilities, he can use Force Push to kill off any infantry that decides to stand around to kill him after his win. I think it was a cool idea, and I saw it happen pretty consistently as a kid in vanilla, wished Obi had one versus Palps tbh, but I get why they removed them.

[@AJadedLizard]

I wish EAW had more sophisticated ground combat like this just in general. If units would react to terrain, do things like go prone or take cover during shootouts, it would make firefights a lot more dynamic. _World in Conflict_ came out a few years later and absolutely blows the pants off what EAW does here, but it's interesting to see Petroglyph was experimenting with the same sort of ideas. It also makes the Battle Cam make a bit more sense in ground battles, since it's otherwise only really interesting to use in conjunction with bombing runs. Now at least you can watch neat lightsaber fights, in addition to all the cool space battles it also shows you.

[@williamnelson5549]

Seeing those duels were honestly awesome to watch in base game

[@GeneralTantor]

Wow that is so cool! Would be epic to add for mods though!

[@_Dovar_]

Two decades after this great game came out I learn about this.

[@epicstyle1000]

wow thanks, usually have a lot of my army fighting so dont normally see it

[@jarradpuckridge8210]

I remember obi wan frequently chopping vader to bits and yoda was even worse😂

[@matthewhecht9257]

3/4 times I beat Vader with Obi-Wan. I just force protected immediately and then force healed whenever I could. I could not make him move, but I could at least do that to get the victory. My sister went 1-1 with Obi-Wan like that. The one time I lost my T-2Bs immediately then killed Vader.

[@theschwabmob8363]

Yeh in Vanilla you had a pretty good chance to keep Obi-Wan alive via spamming Force Heal & Protect.

[@AceUzumazi]

I've always wanted to try and find a reskinned model of Obi-Wan and a model that used the Vader animations, then use them as generic Jedi and Sith(Or Inquisitors) that can be recruited by the Rebels and the Empire, so you could random Jedi and Sith clashes all over the battlefield. While I know there are plenty of Obi reskins, I think there might be one model called a Sith assassin that uses Vaders, not sure.

[@Kaleesh_General27]

Cool. Didn’t even know that was a thing.

[@geneonkerensky7450]

That's interesting!

[@thepotatoking-1]

I was watching this vid and thought they were going to bring it to the mods

[@LordMrBoss]

Maybe petroglyph will update the hero clash so that it's more streamlined for modders

[@joshdavison6888]

It would be cool if at least the Jedi and Sith characters could still do this in mods. It would add some exciting variety to ground maps that get dull way too easily.

[@SamGarcia]

This is making me want to redownload this

[@michaelandreipalon359]

A surprise to be sure, just like how Castlevania: Symphony of the Night players are still surprised on Red Dust having useful Curse affinities.

[@sulljoh1]

When EAW came out this was my favorite part Get Jedi together and watch the fun

[@grandadmiralzaarin4962]

Breakdancing Boba Fett ability when?

[@TribbleArtCreations]

I actually think, since the Obi-Wan and Vader one works, you could probably relatively easily copy paste and make that work for Darth Vader vs Luke Skywalker. I would probably just have them mimic the movements of Obi-Wan and Darth Vader, because of the animating involved. Copying the animation files and just changing the name from whatever Obi-Wan XML to Luke would be relatively painless. And for example , if you Mod it so you have Bespin Luke for Tech Level 3 and Jedi Knight for Tech Level 4, you could have a second version of Darth Vader vs Luke Skywalker duel, the Tech Level 3 making Luke more likely to lose and the Tech Level 4 Luke more likely to win. Again, wouldn't do anything crazy with the animations, just have them renamed and make the two versions of Luke Tech Level or Era(time) locked if you have figured out how to do that (I've been trying to figure that put from Fall of the Republic) it's rough trying to figure it out.

[@CoreyLoses]

You can't copy animations like that. Obi-Wan and Luke have different skeletons, so the animation is not transferrable. It would only work if you fully re-rig Luke onto Obi-Wan's skeleton and fully swap his animation set.

[@TribbleArtCreations]

@CoreyLoses I haven't looked at the models/skeletons, but I've linked missiles to launch from AT-ST missile pod connected to a weapon swap ability. Did similar stuff for making TIE Fighters and X-Wings do strafing runs similar with bombers doing bombing runs, having V-Wings spawn from the original Venator model in the base game(that was coded out of use and the hangars being coded out even if you code the Venator back in), Rocket Launcher Storm Troopers. If the Obi-Wan skeleton is similar enough to Luke, specifically in size, the animation may only be slightly off. May have to adjust the distance between Luke and Vader. It's been a while since I messed with that sort of coding. The biggest thing is the animation would drastically change from whatever Luke's normal behavior/animations to mirror Obi-Wan while engaging Darth Vader while they battle.

[@CoreyLoses]

None of what you changed there are analogous to switching animations to another skeleton. The animations require having the same skeleton, not just close. It's not that the animations will look off, they just flat-out won't transfer/load on a different skeleton. It has nothing to do with coding.

[@CoreyLoses]

To be clear, also, this isn't simply a matter of difficulty- there is no coding in the game, no matter how complicated that can make that change. Everything you listed in your prior comment was a fairly simple XML change, but the animation and skeleton data is not XML based at all. The HeroClash entries are XML, but they are triggers, they are not animations. The easiest way to see that skeletons need to be *exact* , not just close, for yourself, is to use the land_model_anim_override line to try to give Obi-Wan's animations to Luke, or copying and renaming Obi-Wan's animations to the same filename as Luke. They simply will not work. It's not that they'll be close in some ways and just have messed up movement- the game does not load them for that model at all. That's why we rig all of our Jedi models for TR/FotR/RR to *either* Luke, Obi-Wan's or Vader's skeletons (and all of our infantry to one consistent skeleton), so we can use those overrides and animation sets. Having Luke's animation set be in a duel like this would require making/Apple ng that animation in Blender or in 3DS Max.

[@TheMock5000]

I never get to see hero clashes, the enemy hero is usually dead before my hero gets there. Or I'm playing GC and my invasion armies never run into lightsaber heroes. That or the enemy AI bugs out and runs.

[@jjd13579]

I've never missed the presence of hero clashes because the whole premise of the game is that you're creating an alternative lore in the SW timeline. You could give, for example, Kyle Katarn an ability that buffs him in combat against Jerec to preserve at least the spirit of hero clashes, but why bother when the campaign is wildly deviating from the Legends timeline? They probably won't ever be in the same ground combat in 99/100 games.

[@jamesche7496]

Empire at War is such a great game, too bad its ground battle got overshadowed by how good the space battle was, thus not many people realise these kind of features, still waiting for the day when we can get a remake of this game that comes with modern feature and improvements, there's only so much the mods can do with its old engine, RTS need to live again

[@FreeSamich]

Corey: oh what’s this? (Pulls an open invitation to the modding community out of his pocket) This one is probably *too* challenging for most. I guess I’ll just leave this here 😏 I see what you’re up to 😉

[@laahocsm0019]

I always did wonder why mods never used that.

[@nolanburke3669]

Hey it's the reason why most of my battle saves break on the release version of the game

[@CoreyLoses]

Hero clashes?

[@nolanburke3669]

​@CoreyLoses yep whenever I save during one, the game freaks out when I load it back up at best the two heroes are stuck and at worse the game crash. Though now that I'm thinking about it, I was using of the Stars Best of PC collection disk so that might have been the cause. It also happened with any lightsaber fight so not exactly hero clashes but the worst bugs do tend to be with Obi Wan and Vader

[@AnotherLuckyStar]

Still a bit sad we never got Yoda or Luke vs the Emperor or something like that :/

[@ElCidTheScienceKid]

I'm assuming the animations don't pair up well with most other single lightsaber wielding units or is it just the sheer amount of matchup lists required preventing implementing clashes in EAWX?

[@CoreyLoses]

The animations only exist as part of Vader and Obi-Wan's rigs. The animations for Luke are better, and match other characters we have more, but don't include these animations, and you can't transfer them from rig to rig.

[@marioacosta-warren921]

As a kid I tried to get All the Heroes and Villains to fight each other at once to see who would win. Obviously didn't work.

[@puttilepuffie]

Everytime i see a strategy game that does not want to animate their units together while they fight each others 😫

[@Capt_CrimsoN]

Are there any other clashes? Such as Luke vs. Vader? Or Yoda vs the Emperor? Since they appear in Forces of Corruption.

[@CoreyLoses]

No, the three mentioned in the video are the only three in the game

[@johnathangoodwin3610]

Wouldn't mind sith vs jedi fights using the old animations. Would be interesting, No non-jedi/sith though, too much animation work

Too bad this duel dont exist in FOC

[@Marinealver]

They just don't make games like they used to anymore.

[@ants7279]

I rule u

[@namelesssmokemonster]

Send help for I am done for

[@Zovereign]

It sucks, Obi-Wan will always win because of his healing.

[@CoreyLoses]

Obi-Wan essentially never wins in this hero clash, it's hugely weighted against him even with healing.

[@theschwabmob8363]

@@CoreyLoses As a kid, I consistently won with spamming his Heal + Protect whenever they were off cooldown, and usually won through it. Super time-consuming though, for what is effectively a minor win in the end.