This Forest Should Have Been Clearcut

[@thetimberlandinvestor]

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[@craighamilton4732]

Here in Pa in the state forest system we use the term overstory removal instead of clearcut. This is teo fold.. it does not need the secondary definition of cc to justify what is happening in the removal. And it allows us to define the harvest. Whether it be a removal of residuals after a shelterwood or a salvage operation or staight to a cc because the regeneration will carry that prescription. Simply, the term clear cut has a negative connotation which implies creating a moonscape without the thought or management of the understory and future forest.

[@thetimberlandinvestor]

Yeah, I don't worry too much about the legal definitions, as they differ in each state, and the definitions are fairly arbitrary (although a lot of prescription definitions are). As for connotations, I don't shy away from words with a negative connotation. I used to do a lot of public relations type stuff when I worked for an industrial landowner. We'd always discuss how to phrase things and what words to use to make it sound more palatable. It always felt slimy and unnecessarily dishonest. I'd rather approach issues openly, even if it means expanding the definition of those bad words.

[@reinerzimmermann9223]

This forester has no idea of a real management. I am from Germany and I have here in New Brunswick a 150acre woodlot. working every free minute in it and I love what I see develope in the last 30 years.

[@b.w.22]

Hey man, I really appreciate your work. As an owner of the proverbial “100 acres” in the WV mountains, I’ve been trying to learn about silviculture to address outside forces like wooly adelgids aling with the decisions made by prior owners in the hopes of leaving things better and more resilient than found. Deciding what “better” even looks like here is still a work in progress, but it’s been a fun and interesting journey so far and helped, in part, by your work. So thank you! Also, I recognize that you are an intelligent guy and care about your presentation, so don’t take this wrong: The word “mores” that we use to mean social rules or morally acceptable norms is pronounced “mor-reys” and is Latin for something like “manners or habits.” Because it’s a Latin word, the singular form is “mōs,” pronounced something like “mose,” and is seldom to never used, probably because Latin is weird and the two words don’t even sound related. But yeah, that word is pronounced like the eel and not the word for increased.

[@thetimberlandinvestor]

Lol, I never knew that

[@mrmadmaxalot]

Huh, that's kinda interesting.

[@b.w.22]

@ - Hey, thanks. It’s definitely not my normal thing to “you see, ackshually that word is, ahem, French and pronounced like “doo-shay” and not “doosh” like people always describe me….” But in this case, the creator of these videos is genuinely trying to educate and help and is clearly working really hard to promote his channel and software, so I figured he would be open to working on anything which might distract someone from his messaging. I mean, there are a lot of words and so many we only see written - when I was a kid, I thought the word lichen was pronounced “litch-en,” but I’d never heard anyone say it.

[@calebfast8088]

I love how well read you are on economics. :)

[@danielrice3047]

Lol at Bernanke jab

[@JonFrumTheFirst]

I wasn't expecting the Ben Bernanke reference. 🤭

[@stephenkutney9626]

I have almost 100 acres in New York State. I'm enrolled in the Forestry 480a program. which gives me an 80% reduction in property and school taxes as long as the property is managed. This requires me to have a management plan written by a forester. NYS will not allow a clearcut once you are in this program. Each management area requires a minimum amount of basal area, which seems unreasonable.

[@___PK__]

Wont the stagnant trees pop up a lot now with more air & light?

[@craighamilton4732]

Yes and no, the conifer component of the young forest will probably respond well initially, but he mentioned that the hardwood component is white birch and Aspen. These are pioneer species, meaning they need full sunlight to thrive and grow well. He mentioned that the canopy of the mature forest was reduced by 30 percent. This means that the young trees will struggle to get the proper amount of light grow correctly and thrive.. over the next 10-20 years this could lead to bad tree form, stunted growth, and mortality of the young forest. Even if the residual forest has 50 percent mortality over the next 10 years if you lose the same percentage or more of the young trees then you are mismanaging the forest And can lead to undesirable conditions in the future

[@thetimberlandinvestor]

If the trees were younger and were stagnating as a result of high densities, yes. But in this case, the trees were stagnant because they were at the end of their lives.

[@___PK__]

@craighamilton4732 Thank you. Good explanation.

[@chelseaboss099]

im super skeptical that 40 percent of the stand could be damaged by a cable skidder, ive worked in the woods my whole life and seen some pretty rough jobs but id say youd have to really spend a lot of time in order to skin up 40 percent of a remaining forest!!!!! those or some rough loggers for sure

[@thetimberlandinvestor]

It's worth watching the main video, titled "Timber Harvest Trails Are destroying Your Forest," but the argument (which was based on grapple skidder/forwarder numbers) was 20 ft wide trails spaced 100 ft apart center to center with trees on the side of trails having crowns 20ft in diameter. The end result is *up to* 40% of your stand being either removed by trails or exposed to stem, crown, or root damage being at the edge of a trail. Cable skidders specifically have some advantages to help avoid this, but a rough cable skidder/chainsaw logger can arguably do more residual damage than a rough FB/harvester operator. Maybe.

[@stephenblack8804]

Another problem with woodlands we own is generations of selective harvest, or “diameter limit harvests”. The reality is the fast growing desirable species with good form are removed, leaving everything else. Do this for 100+ years and you are left with a mess, it looks pretty from the road, but in reality it’s only growing firewood. It’s akin to humans killing off all their healthy, tall kids and leaving the sickly short kids to reproduce. A clear cut is the silvicultural equivalent of a reset button, it allows one to start over.

[@careyjohnston4176]

Why do you refer to this as Nuclear Option? Really want to thank you for showing the effects of taking out only certain trees and what can happen to what's left. I live in Arkansas where the majority of trees are pines for pulp and lumber . The timber companies have convinced ignorant hunters in this state and others that this monoculture is beneficial to deer and other wildlife but I know the truth. I want to find a way to express to these people how they have been dupted into believing this . By clearcutting areas and promoting stands of pines they have drastically altered the availability of most indigenous species of understory fruting plants that are a benefit to everything. I have to say that the day is coming when a virus, bacteria or insect targets these pine trees and throws the entire region into poverty and chaos. You would think people would pay attention to what is happening to many species of trees around our country and take action. The ignorance of southern people is devastating. 😂

[@lpeterman]

As an Oregonian with 80-forested acres and dealing with (incredibly) ignorant neighbors, I'd like to politely extend your last sentence to include my Pacific Northwest neighbors specifically, as well as the Nation in general, on a wide variety of topics...

[@careyjohnston4176]

@lpeterman Being so very polite to my disagreement with how I believe there is little value in planting monocultures . Yes I did realize that most areas of the northwestern us and Canada are sources for lumber companies as well as individual land owners that profit from this type of ecology. The benefits are for humans greed not the environment. You are an intelligent great speaker and caring personality. That's why I payed attention. You drew me in quick. Thank you so very much. No need to respond I'm sure you don't want to anyway.

[@lpeterman]

@@careyjohnston4176 I am sooo with you on the uselessness of plantation monocultures. (My polite 'extension' was to say that it isn't only "southern" folk who are ignorant of the bigger picture.) Our property is a "Haven for Wildlife" and diversity as written in our Management Plan as well as being Linn County, OR "Tree Farmers of the year 2020". If you're interested, lookup "Peterman Timbery" article TimberWest magazine Nov/Dec 2019 to see what we're about.