THIS IS BULL$*%T! 🐞 MORE BUGS? | Making Mecha'thun Great Again Priest | Rise of Shadows Hearthstone

Yet again Disguised Toast encounters a bug. This time with a new Rise of Shadows take on Mecha'thun Priest: "Mecha'thun Priest with Mecha'thun but the Mecha'thun doesn't even work Mecha'thun Priest" Let's see how it plays out!
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Edited by: otriggad

[@HoipoIIoi]

tinder girl: so whats your major? toast: *deathrattle orders*

[@ml.2770]

1 more year till I graduate.

[@JimmyR42]

@heeey eeey Actually it does, the first trigger is the EoT effect so both the Doll and Mecha die at the same time. The ordering of the deathrattle trigger doesn't change the board state, when both triggers happen the board state was that he still had an experimenter on the field. You can clearly see in the animation that the doll left the battlefield before the experimenter did, which means that when both creature died at the same time, the check for deathrattle trigger must also happen at the same time. The problem in this combo is that to use experimenter to cheap out Mecha, you need a way to kill it BEFORE Mecha, not at the same time. tl;dr : conditional trigger checks can happen simultaneously when many of them are being met at the same time even if the sequencing of the effects of those triggers comes one after another.

[@vinnregi4882]

@@JimmyR42 We miss you Ben

[@csucskos]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoq1l5mFf6mNmbMm10s Doll was and is bugged for sure

[@kokosnotenXD]

@@csucskos I really want blizzard to give a detailed information on how their system is built. because I mean take MTG for example, you can pretty easily solve these problems due to how simple the stack is built...

[@mechathunandthecultofdeath4958]

*YOU WORK SO HARD, ONLY TO BE WRONGFULLY STRUCK DOWN BY BLIZZARD'S INCOMPETENCE. AT EASE, CULTIST TOAST - THE INTENT WAS THERE.*

[@mortalux]

Why can’t you work properly?! I know your a mech and you can have bugs but FIX YOURSELF !

[@byhyb6vtvtb444]

Thought you died mecha'thun

[@kornx10]

@@byhyb6vtvtb444 Old Gods dont die. They just get rebuilt

[@Thatowlzguy]

All hail

[@penguin4313]

All is logical mecha c`thun died at the same time as doll did but experimentor died only after doll so when c`thun deathrattle worked experimentor be alive, then after doll died with mc`thun she died so evrithing is logical and pretty normal Sorry for my bad english Всё логично меха ктун сдох одновременно с куклой а учёный или экспериментаторша сдохла после их смерти так что когда сработал предсмертный хрип м.к. на доске всё ещё была она и только по том она сдохла от куклы Так что всё логично и ахуенное Приношу извинения за плохое владение языком.

[@wiktortomenel5717]

Toast is like a flower or sandwich, always attracting bugs

[@thegaming5710]

We're asian we have bugs on our sandwich.

[@otdeSai]

@@thegaming5710 😂😂😂😂😂

[@Kher4m]

@@thegaming5710 right, no one cares about bugs they eat, only care about bugs that eat you.

[@mr.poopswag6954]

Not a sandwich a literal toast

[@JorgeEscobarMX]

That's not a bug.

[@KnownAsKenji]

Blizzard: 'OK so Toast found a good bit of bugs this time, but we got it all included in today's long-term patch maintenance, everything's gonna be nice and-' Toast 1 hour before maintenance: 'BLIZZARD' Blizzard: 'aw fuck'

[@Rodney976]

Small indie company interactions

[@wearytravelerx1]

You can see the exact moment his soul was ripped into two

[@eriksjonering7124]

Austin Green top ten anime betrayals

[@Cuestrupaster]

Mecha'thun priest but Mecha'thun deathrattle doesn't work Mecha'Thun deck.... ~Love it!

[@justintan5200]

Reformed arc is going down the drain

[@purpleblah2]

Time for Blizzard Jail Shippūden

[@BumpySpaceRoad]

And why exactly might that be?

[@Swagbastian]

@@BumpySpaceRoad Because he keeps getting angry at Blizzard.

[@BumpySpaceRoad]

@@Swagbastian and that's because he encountered a bug in the game. How is that hurting his 'reformed' arc

[@user-im7cc2su9l]

@@BumpySpaceRoad you had a good point and then you fucked it up feelsbadman

[@csucskos]

Easiest way to win with Mechatun: Make your opponent play Dusfallen Aviana... EZ

[@thereddevils091]

6:16 for the start of the bugged turn

[@salach1049]

thank you kind sir

[@fuzy9558]

Thanks man you're the new skipperino

[@0888564197]

Ty

[@thereddevils091]

@Steve Johnson despite that maybe making sense, there is no point attempting to justify it. Plus as toast explains everything has an order and cannot happen simultaneously, so it really should work no matter what

[@yani9o]

@Steve Johnson exactly, deathrattles have two stages: trigger and resolve. If-statements are checked in the trigger stage, not the resolve stage. With this "combo", voodoo-dolls deathrattle triggers first, then mecha'thuns deathrattle triggers (but they don't resolve yet, and experimenter is still considered alive at that point). Because of that mecha'thuns if-statement during the trigger-stage is false (experimenter still alive), that's why he doesn't win the game.

[@Hogscraper]

Ben Brode said on reddit: "Things happen one after the other, but the one thing that never happens during a card resolution or trigger is minions dying. For example, if you have 3 Wild Pyromancers, and play a spell, they ALL get to trigger (even though they are all at 0 Health after the 2nd one triggers). We always wait for all effects to finish firing before cleaning up minions who are 'dead'." So the Reckless Experimenter would be deemed as 'a corpse on the field' until its effect was fully resolved so deathrattle order is irrelevant since they didn't kill the RE with damage to get around that. Unless you can find another example where the RE is killed without damaging effects like the coffin combo it seems like it's supposed to work that way.

[@thatisjustwhatisaid]

ORDER LUL You have to first fix the bug and only OTK after OMEGALUL

[@DragonFoxWolfz]

thatisjustwhatisaid plz look on the left side when the big happens ....

[@thomasli9894]

@@DragonFoxWolfz r/woosh

[@pedrodanielboanovaferreira1714]

The way I see it it's working as expected. The enchantment that kills the vodoo doll and mech'Thun happens before the deathrattle trigger on vodoo doll meaning that the mech'thun and the vodoo doll die before the other minion.

[@JunglingFist]

I think it is currently doing this: Hits End of turn Does all end of turn things Kills the Loot Hoarder Kills the Voodoo Doll Kills the Mecha'Thun Done with all the end of turn things Then Does deathrattles Draw a card Sets Reckless Experimenter to die Win the game if no cards in deck or board (Fails because Reckless is still alive) End of deathrattles Reckless experimenter dies I personally think that they should fix it. I think the way voodoo doll deathrattle is operating right now should be changed so it's target dies before going onto other queued deathrattles

[@Icetea-2000]

But the point is that within that one action of the turn ending, the hand, deck and board are empty. The Mechathun dies with everything else in one motion. Even though the code works normally, it should still be designed differently. Yes I know this is 3 years old

[@ScyelGale]

there's a bug in *rumble run* with priest's shrine deathrattle. where you use the slime card that eats a friendly minion and when that slime dies the game would stop to respond. happened 4 times to me earlier. xD

[@normanbreau295]

Also a bug where if you trigger the hunter's Freezing Trap with your shrine, the shrine gets removed from the board, but doesn't appear in your hand. Got really frustrated as I kept on triggering it when playing the warrior armour shrine facing against the hunter that plays a random secret when they cast a spell.

[@Wulfryk]

Blizzard making sure Toast doesnt get his 100% winrates, the system is rigged!

[@Yadeehoo]

It's not rigged for Thijs, who can still get 300% win rate

[@gustavofring1908]

What's the problem? First Reckless deathrattle triggers, killing the other 2 minions. Only after that deathrattle resolves, the Voodoo Doll's deathrattle can resolve, and the Reckless Experimenter can die.

[@srn347]

Toast, this is most definitely not a bug. You know how death processing works, right? (You should, I've heard you mention it by name multiple times.) Lethal damage and "destroy" effects don't immediately destroy the minion, "destroy" effects set pending destroy, and when death is processed, minions with lethal damage or pending destroy are destroyed. When you resolve voodoo doll and mecha'thun, you set pending destroy to reckless experimenter, then you attempt to set pending destroy on the opposing hero (fails because you have reckless experimenter, thus mecha'thun's condition is not met), then when the next round of death processing occurs, reckless experimenter dies.

[@_Farre]

That wouldn’t matter because yes, the Reckless put pending destroy on deathrattle minions BUT the Voodoo was played first and the Voodoo’s pending destroy would hit the Reckless first when the Voodoo die. Because order. Then the second wave would come and kill Mecha. Therefore activating Mecha’s pending destroy on the enemy hero, which would be successful as all requirements were met.

[@NoeLPZC]

We can test this by checking Toast's claim about Savannah Highmane. If the hyenas are spawned and hit by the weapon's deathrattle (as Toast claims) then your theory is wrong, since SH's death is being processed BEFORE the next deathrattle in the stack activates. So either Toast is wrong regarding SH or this is indeed a bug.

[@srn347]

@@_Farre No, it most certainly would matter because voodoo doll doesn't destroy immediately, it sets pending destroy. First wave: destroy voodoo doll and mecha'thun, then resolve their deathrattles in that order. Reckless gets pending destroy and opposing hero doesn't because there's still a reckless experimenter on the field. Second wave: reckless experimenter dies.

[@Grr8jon]

srn347 actually viewed the video a few times and you’re right. It’s not a bug. Reckless experimenter dies last in the video. It looks like voodoo doll and mechathun died simultaneously.

[@KainYusanagi]

"I like how people are saying it's not a bug but you have the old mecha'thun priest combo with ticking abomination that wouldn't work if what they were saying was accurate."

[@hazakimasu]

watching disguised toast is like watching anime to me~ love the every plot you made toast keep it up~

[@dorodazlac5305]

1. Experimeter's effect triggers killing Mecha and Voodoo 2. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo die, triggering effect 3. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo deathrattles trigger 4. Simultaneously Mecha "win effect" triggers (Experimenter technically still on board) while Voodoo "kill effect" triggers to kill Experimenter 5. Simultaneously Mecha's effect resolves and does not "win" game while Voodoo effect resolves and kills Experimenter Hmm.. Just a thought, possible that this happened in order (looking at "trigger" and resolution" separately). ? Thoughts?

[@adRozi]

But in the text of Voodoo Doll it should kill the targeted minion at the same time as it dies, not after.

[@adRozi]

Just my opinion

[@dorodazlac5305]

@@adRozi Hmm... that could be possible, but the text says: "Deathrattle: Kill chosen minion." So it should interpret as it "will" kill the minion (future), rather than simultaneously.

[@adRozi]

@@dorodazlac5305 but it says when it dies, destroy the chosen minion. Not after it dies

[@KaiserTheDarkWolf]

that sounds like a bug to me. In any card game effect that trigger at same time have an order. Basically you choose what happens first and "what happens first" means what actions resolve first. What should happens is that voodoo doll effects need to be check first because you play the card first. Something similar like how bomb minions of hunter effects vs lifesteals works - sometimes the bomb hit first and them you gain life and sometimes the bomb go second and you health first it depends of what minion was played first. If both happens "at same time" literally, is a bug.

[@mrburn6119]

OMG i need to get softer carpet - you keep making me fall off the chair with laughter . . . .Thank You

[@AkromaStrategy]

at 21:00 you see Reckless Experimenters effect kills the other 3 minions, which causes mecha'thun to die while Reckless experimenter is still alive, then after that voodoo doll's effect kills Reckless Experimenter. Either there was an intentional change to not have all deathrattles trigger simultaneously or the buff from voodoo doll/reckless experimenter is being treated with a higher/lower priority than they used to. Thanks Blizzard.

[@Yadeehoo]

ticking abomination died at the same time as Mecha'thun, yet it used to work, so it was abomination that was bugged. It shouldn't have worked at all in the first place.

[@Axel-di1uv]

i liked the chef nomi deck alot

[@koenagtereek3929]

Toast its not a bug. Its how the cards and interactions have always worked. The reason it doesnt work is because deathrattles trigger before minions die. This does mean the text on mechatun is wrong though. It should be deathrattle when only this minion is alive. And thats probably the way it was coded. Btw keep up the good work love your vids.

[@MrQwefty]

Toast: I'll seance the galvanizer to play it a third time. Opponent: Hold my Aviana.

[@DuTogiraIkonoka]

Check can’t happen at the beginning because mechathun cataclysm still works. Maybe the check is like a “pre deathrattle” kind of effect, so mechathun sees both other minions still alive and then deathrattles resolve in some wonky order?

[@PopeMical]

I like how people are saying it's not a bug but you have the old mecha'thun priest combo with ticking abomination that wouldn't work if what they were saying was accurate.

[@Noobie2k7]

It is a completely different interaction. . . A minions death being completely resolved and a minion being summoned from hand are completely different events. All the people who think they're somehow the same are just dumb. Sorry. Minions ALWAYS die after all other effects have resolved. No other interaction in the game as a minion being removed from the board by death in the middle of an effect chain.

[@shanemayberry8092]

He actually takes a moment in the video to acknowledge that this interaction is different than that one because Mecha'thun dies from ticking rather than the experimenters buff. TBH I do not think this is a "bug", as in the card or whatever is malfunctioning, however I am curious to know if it is working as intended by Blizzard. I do want to point out that Experimenter was still on the field when Mecha'thun died... *shrug*

[@ZombiZohm]

@@Noobie2k7 this might be closer to the interaction with the Hydra where you can Overkill it and continue causing damage to the enemy player after the Hydra would normally be dead. At the end of the damage cycle the Hydra actually dies that disappears from the board.

[@dorodazlac5305]

Possible this happened? 1. Experimeter's effect triggers killing Mecha and Voodoo 2. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo die, triggering effect 3. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo deathrattles trigger 4. Simultaneously Mecha "win effect" triggers (Experimenter technically still on board) while Voodoo "kill effect" triggers to kill Experimenter 5. Simultaneously Mecha's effect resolves and does not "win" game while Voodoo effect resolves and kills Experimenter

[@user-yv3zk1lk6c]

rod calzado yes! The experimenter dies to an effect placed on it by voodoo doll, not voodoo doll’s deathrattle itself. Therefore it happens after the deathrattle phase you can see it dies last slightly after both voodoo doll and mechathun die

[@TheIlluvatar619]

Hello, i had one more comment just to ask community something for this trial: -since the interaction queue change (when pyro was activate after beeing sumon) does it mean that now all the trigger from reckless happend in order, meaning vodoo dool is put under the queue, because reckless still need to activate mecathun ? so reckless "die" before mechathun but the priority check state that she is alive when mcathun trigger?

[@dariolaguardia9984]

It is not a bug, the effect that triggers first the the.5 mana card that makes minion dies at the end of turn, so mecha'thun dies befor the 5 mana cost minion

[@ralphpena7761]

@25:20 I was so hoping that donation said to Lazul you own mech'athun

[@waterierStone]

Bug or inconsistency aside, I think the second deck is only slightly more flexible with it's 3 card setup for only 2-3 extra mana. Also, 3 galvanizers is better with dead ringer, which should replace loot Horder in both decks. However, it suffers from the combo hate card that plays your spell.

[@xaendark]

1. End of Turn: Experimenter ability resolves -> Doll & Mechathun die 2. Deathrattle from Doll and Mechathun go onto the stack 3. Deathrattle from doll resolves -> Doll ability goes onto the stack 4. Deathrattle form Mechathun resolves 5. Doll ability resolves -> Experimenter dies Technically it's not really a "stack" but rather a "pipe" ...

[@MantrahNoLife]

ok Toast, what about this, galvanizer, baneful banker, brewmaster, DR BOOMS SCHEME, shield slam? worst mecha'thun combo ever made, with trash scheme? sounds like somthing you would do. (not an insult)

[@misele1965]

Is this an OTK tho? Booms scheme still costs 5 mana

[@MantrahNoLife]

@@misele1965 booms sheme costs 4

[@user-im7cc2su9l]

double baleful for galvanizer and saving the coin for an 11 mana combo??? seems legit

[@MantrahNoLife]

yeah, it's stupid

[@MantrahNoLife]

or you could just pray to god and randomly roll galvanizer

[@luckynumberslevin5936]

Toast: i need to draw naturally now Also Toast: heal northshire cleric, play auctioneer and play 2 spells to draw cards

[@luminair123]

7:07 lol, I love the reaction! XD

[@TheHappyReaper]

For those of you wanting to play a Mecathun deck that does manage to proc Mecathun, you can do this with 2 Galvanizers, an Auchenai Phantasm, and some combination of Circle of Healing/Regenerate.

[@daabri]

after all deathrattles have been called and verified, they are initiated. So the check "do you have any minions left" happens before the voodoo doll's effect triggers. I understand this is confusing but this has been consistent throughout the years.

[@themalachai6801]

Interesting, so the deathrattles trigger in the order they were played but Reckless experimenter kills all the deathrattle minions simultaneously. Which makes it so that mechathun will be dead before Reckless is.

[@NukaColaRanger]

Disguised Toast you god damn genius!

[@user-hs7yp7xb8q]

Why OTK doesn't work as toast expected? Because Experimentor doesn't work as toast expected.The minions made to die at the end of the turn by Experimentor,don't die and make their deathrattle effects one after another in order they were played,but die (in any order) and are removed from the battlefield at once before they make their deathrattle effects in order they were played.This is the difference that we didn't need to tell in Crasher-Abomination OTK.

[@Timinem]

I think its because voodoo doll's deathrattle triggers at the same time as mecathun's, so when mecathun dies, experimenter is still alive. Experimenter dies after voodoo and mecathun die.

[@TheThyrian]

Didn't know where else to put this but I'd appreciate some deck making advice. Looking to make a decent ladder deck with both Nozwhisker and Hiest Baron. What cards do you recommend?

[@Robert-xt7sn]

The way this is supposed to work is: Voodoo Doll dies and kills Experimenter, then Mecha'thun dies and the game ends. But instead, Experimenter dies after both of them, which makes 0 actual sense. That's not how that interaction is supposed to take place.

[@Oxxyjoe]

At the end of his turn, both deathrattle minions die. Experimenter dies after. It's not a bug, get over it

[@Robert-xt7sn]

@@Oxxyjoe Do you remember how the old Mecha'thun priest worked and how the order of the deathrattles played mattered? It's supposed to work the same way. It is a bug, get over it.

[@Robert-xt7sn]

When you played Coffin Crasher into double Ticking Abomination, if it supposed to work the way you're suggesting then Mecha'thun wouldn't be pulled from hand unto the board before the Ticking Abominations exploded. It would wait until the very end , till the board is nuked and then Mecha'thun would be pulled.

[@Oxxyjoe]

@@Robert-xt7sn ah yes I see now

[@Oxxyjoe]

@@Robert-xt7sn I changed my mind. It's not inconsistent nor a bug. Before, you had a coffin crasher and two ticking aboms die at the same time. Because of deathrattle order, the coffin crasher pulled mechathun before the aboms exploded. Now, you play mechathun from hand and it dies when the turn ends, which is before experimenter dies.

[@typicalDJ]

For what it's worth, I actually made a variant of this deck this morning, was super stoked to see you had the same idea. the combo i've been using is Reckless Experimenter, Lazul's schemeto reduce attack on reckless expirimenter, mechathun, then kill the experimenter with dark visions. 4 cards total which is a tad on the heavy side. But otherwise i'm running a ton of control taunts + rez's to control the board the rest of the time. (control taunts being the infiltrator 2/6, things to clone it, the 3/7 that bombs the board for 3 dmg, ziliax, and hecklebots.) I had a good time with the lackey generating taunt, lackeys had good value, but they sadly polute the rez pool. still experimenting, but running archmage vargoth has been yielding good results. Personally im trying to figure out if i want to try to work in more draw and trade some control, or naw...as it stands i was out-valuing control wars until i got my combo off. then i just let them clear my board...idk, i like these creative win condition decks. i'll talk with anyone willing!

[@typicalDJ]

Just realized im super dumb and cant do lazul's on my own minion. disregard. Finding a new way that is less awkward than seancing a galvanizer.

[@WhirlXbow]

if im not mistaking this is due to mechathune deathrattle only checking when it dies and not when it triggers. this would mean that when the mechathune dies the minions that make it die is still alive.

[@some1fromthedark]

So according to the advanced rulebook, which is worth pointing out is fan made based on observations, this "bug" is actually a feature. The reason is because deaths are resolved in phases. On the turn shown in the video the first phase occurs when Toast ends his turn. The Reckless Experimenter's effect is applied destroying the Voodoo Doll and Mecha'thun. The death phase resolves all effects excluding death before continuing and those effects are resolved in play order. Voodoo Doll was played first, so it resolves first. It is sent to the graveyard and its deathrattle occurs destroying the Reckless Experimenter. Since further death is excluded from resolving in the middle of the phase, Reckless Experimenter is not sent to the graveyard. Next Mecha'thun resolves its death. It is sent to the graveyard and its deathrattle triggers, but Reckless Experimenter is on the field so you do not win the game. Since there are no more deaths that need to resolve in this phase, the game checks if there are any minions on the board that are destroyed. It finds Reckless Experimenter, who was destroyed by Voodoo Doll. The game begins a second death phase where it resolves Reckless Experimenter's death, sending it to the graveyard. This interaction has been documented by the advanced rulebook since June 2015, so it seems like it is not a bug, but rather an intended feature for how death is resolved in the game. TLDR: This type of interaction has been documented for nearly 4 years, and isn't a bug.

[@Orelusz]

Does it affect if you play it on a different place in the board? Like what if you play it on the leftmost, from what I saw it always triggers on the right first and ends on the left.

[@adRozi]

The game always check for the card played in order, it doesnt matter where you put it in board

[@mazenmz603]

the way you know this is a bug is by looking at the old combo ( the 6 mana used to pull mechathun from hand before the 2 other 5 mana minions destroy the board ) and by the sam logic voodoo destroys the minion then mechathun should happen

[@crafterbros8708]

mazen mz i completely agree. If in that combo, it works because mecha’thun gets pulled first, then in this combo, it should work because reckless experimenter gets killed first

[@azrazelhananto]

I dont think "destroy a minion" hence killing it is the same as "put a minion in thr battlefield". Since the phase ruling is that killed minions will only die in their own phase, therefore the voodoo dolls deathrattle puts reckless experimenter into a death queue in which it will start after all the current actions in the death phase (minions dying and deathrattles cuased by the reckless experimenter effect) finish. Therefore mechstun checks reckless experimenter as alive. The old combo uses a different ruling, in which minions played from hand due to a cards deathrattle happens at the current phase and doesnt create a new one (like voodoo dolls effect) so it works in that way

[@MrFox-xr9cc]

I think it's a bit different than the original combo. Reckless says that minions you PLAY die at the end of the turn. so reckless triggers: [death phase of coffin crasher and the 2 guys that deal 5 dmg deathrattles trigger in order] Death Phase of Reckless and Mecha'Thun Deathrattle Triggers So we got Death Phase -> Deathrattles -> MT Death -> MT Deathrattle Toasts is PLAYING Mecha'thun with reckless here though. So we got: Reckless Triggers: [Death Phase of Voodoo and MT Deathrattles Trigger in Order], however: Only after MT's Death the effect of Reckless is finished and ends, which allows her to die. Which is why i don't think it is a bug. Brann for example does the same. If you play a damaging Battlecry to kill brann, it triggers again, even though brann should be dead already, because he dies AFTER his effect resolves. Same for Reckless. MT death is part of the Reckless effect, Reckless dies after resolving its effect.

[@Noobie2k7]

It is completely different to the original combo. . . .

[@dorodazlac5305]

Possible this happened? 1. Experimeter's effect triggers killing Mecha and Voodoo 2. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo die, triggering effect 3. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo deathrattles trigger 4. Simultaneously Mecha "win effect" triggers (Experimenter technically still on board) while Voodoo "kill effect" triggers to kill Experimenter 5. Simultaneously Mecha's effect resolves and does not "win" game while Voodoo effect resolves and kills Experimenter

[@bertholdsen]

what table do you use?

[@CtoPSilly]

Do the cards briefly exist on board with the death state before they're checked to be removed?

[@lolosh99]

That first guy..he is playing handmage with that card pack and he is unlucky... Is it me from an alternate universe ? But he is playing against toast whom is a bug magnet

[@Solemhs]

6:33 this is so sad

[@matteoc98]

The reckless + voodoo doll combo might not work but you can actually kill mecha'thun by playing auchenai, mecha'thun, double regenerate on the mecha'thun and then circle of healing

[@arohk4415]

Not really a bug imo, The effect of Experimenter triggers at the end of your turn, killing both the Vodoo Doll AND Mechathun, their deathrattles tigger simultaniously while the Experimenter is still on the field so Mechathun does nothing.

[@mixure9585]

“You want to see the animations here it is!” *slaps himself* 😂😂 20:55

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

Technically if could say Mecha'thun's death rattle includes dead minions that have not left the board. Then it would still be consistent with the Savannah Highmane and Death's Bite interaction.

[@bopqw1055]

if you play experimenter first then that means voo do don't kill it first wich means mecha cant activate right?

[@JeffreyAK38]

Well Done Toast! Love your videos...

[@MrAgentIncognito]

Toast is probably right about Mechathun doing his check at time of death instead of at Deathrattle effect. It's probably superfluous, but you could always check if this works with other Deathrattle effects, like Ticking Abomination, to see if it's consistent across other cards. The only other possibility is because Voodoo Doll has a targeted effect, the checks might happen simultaneously in sequence, and then their effects happen in sequence.

[@drewgill4833]

Looks like Reckless Experimenter is still on the board when Mecha thun deathrattle goes off

[@Witixin]

I think the interaction goes like this Everyone dies. Nothing happens

[@Frozen_Bubbles]

Like IRL ;)

[@Dominik356]

Ha, end of turn effects are unique in that they are all executed before killing of any minion. I think that was first implemented with Ragnaros and Kel'Thuzad, so that Kel'Thuzad doesn't revive himself.

[@Dominik356]

It still shouldn't work like that and is a bug. Just to clarify.

[@chriskahl6818]

The voodoo doll's death rattle triggers first. But Mechathun dies before the target of the deathrattle. Mechathun's deathrattle doesn't trigger because the board wasn't empty when he died.

[@chriskahl6818]

It isn't a bug. The deathrattle has an if/then check at the time of death. Because mechathun died with 2 other minions on board, his if check failed so then his deathrattle didn't trigger. Mechathun checked his conditions when he died, the third creature wasn't dead until after he died. Not a bug.

[@chriskahl6818]

Step 1. Minions die Step 2. Conditions for deathrattle are checked. Step 3. Deathrattle resolves. Since the Conditions were not met at the time of death mechathun's deathrattle didn't go off.

[@TheOriginalElkstone]

I guess the lab dude's end of turn triggers, kills both of the cards, then both deathrattles activate. Although you'd think the... with... ok no, I don't get why the lab dude died after Mechathun when the doll was played first. Interesting fringe case

[@zekkekeipa6521]

He can actually activate Mechatun in this deck: Galvanized Mechatun + Auchenai + 2x Regenerate + Circle = Easy Legend/100% WR\CraziestDeckIEverPlayed\ e.t.c

[@Csaszarcsaba1]

Wait that is genius xD

[@drBenyy]

To me it makes perfect sense. Reckless KILLS voodoo doll and mecha'thun at the end of turn, voodoo doll's and mecha'thun's deathrattles trigger, then reckless dies last. The previous combo was very different because mecha'thun actually died last then.

[@adRozi]

So it is a bug?

[@drBenyy]

@@adRozi why would it be a bug? Mecha'thun just doesn't die last on board, so it doesn't trigger

[@GGkorok]

Reckless isnt a deathrattle it is an end of turn so it triggers then the death rattle triggers in that order same as if Rag's end of turn hits a death rattle minion just happens without any animation. So it was alive to kill the doll and Mech then the doll killed it.

[@ezariogerion3138]

So Deathrattle should have triggered after the End of turn effect. What apparently happened: End of turn: Voodoo Doll dies, then MechaChtun dies. Then activates Voodoo Doll's Deathrattle and kills Reckless. What should have happened, according to Blizzard - In the same phase, all effects of a first effect resolves, THEN resolves next effect in that phase. So Voodoo Doll should have ended all his interactions and Reckless should have died before MechaChtun Deathrattle activates.

[@PitchBlack33]

My guess is that if it’s not a bug, it just doesn’t work because both deathrattle die at the end of the turn at the same time. So the game says that all are alive and then all are dead, and so mechathun doesn’t activate because all minions are alive when deathrattle triggers and then a second after it triggers, they all die. Although it could just be a bug also.

[@paulelephant9521]

lol I literally built this deck last night but didn't get chance to try it out, thanks for finding this bug Toast. Sucks though!

[@johnparker8648]

I mean you had a way of the combo working in the both decks other than the one used. You could cast 8 mana mechathun then auchenai phantasm then circle of healing and 2x regenerate on mechathun for a total of 10 mana and mechathun dies.

[@celestial0014]

That's 8 dmg my friend.... Didn't saw the regenerate part though hahaha my bad

[@hakuryu5874]

the vodoo doll and mecha'thun die at the same time which means the reckless technically, in the order of the coding dies just milliseconds after the mecha'thun. therefore the mecha'thun deathrattle does not trigger due to there still being a minion on the board when the mecha'thun died. if you were to try and say that deathrattles trigger in sequence, you would be correct. in this case however, the buff applied to the minions that kills them at the end of turn makes them trigger at the EXACT same time. normal deathrattles are coded into the minion itself, but the buff applied to the by the reckless is its own seperate code which means that string of code can run in sinc with the code implemented into the minions without any order to them.

[@ahmedsiddique6318]

But if 4/6 dies it isn't on the board to make meca Thun death trigger or it doesn't work that way?

[@user-yd2qw8gr1h]

gotta catch em all

[@uberdragon111]

I don't see how people say this isn't a bug the previous mecha'thun priest combo had the reckless die to the deathrattle of the ticking abominations. After you played reckless, you had to play the coffin first to pull the mecha'thun, then you played the abominations so their deathrattle cleared board. The order mattered then it should now too. Edit: unless the coffin pulling mecha'thun changed order significantly.

[@Kanubai]

Mecha'thun description: 'Your software will fail. Your users will abandon you. You are already obsolete.'

[@APPhexor]

Love seeing you play the meme decks again! Sad to see Blizzard isnt on your side once again :(( well played. love you Toast

[@Osnapitsjonxd]

21:00 the reckless experimenter is last to die. He plays reckless experimenter, loot hoarder, voodoo doll then mechathun. End phase comes then reckless experimenter activates which kills all deathrattle minions, which then triggers voodoo doll which causes reckless experimenter to die last. Makes sense. Up vote so toast can see my explanation. It's no bug. Interaction works as intended. All the deathrattle minions die at the same time which triggers the voodoo doll that left the field which then kills reckless experimenter last.

[@TrungNguyen-is6lq]

In the "same time" that the deathrattles trigger, voodoo still triggers first (if you recall abomination otk), so this should be the order of death: voodoo -> reckless -> mechathun

[@favray]

But the voodoo doll death is what triggers the reckless death so you’re wrong. You got your order mixed up. Just because the reckless is the last standing minion on the field doesn’t mean it’s supposed to be that way. This was indeed a bug

[@thecheesycheese1910]

I may be wrong, but the death rattle of voodoo doll may have been programmed to work AFTER the death not before causing mechathun to die before the 4/6.

[@samrare64]

The cheesy cheese yes but by that same logic the death rattle of mechathun should have also triggered after the game has checked the doll

[@eriksab1609]

I think I know what happened: 1. End turn, 2. Deathrattle destroy mecathun and voodoo, 3. destroy the last one with voodoo DR, 4. Profit!

[@yani9o]

Mecha'Thun-Combo with the monstrosities: [Your turn]: - Experimenter is played - Coffin Crasher is played (1) - 2x monstrosities are played (2 & 3) ["End turn"-phase]: - Experimenters effect resolves, killing deathrattle minions (game considers them as dead from now on) - Game triggers deathrattles and puts them on the resolve stack with snapshot of THAT moment (Experimenter alive, the other minions dead) - (1) Coffin Crashers effect resolves, bringing mecha'thun on the field (4) - (2) first monstrosity effect resolves, dealing 5 damage to your minions - (3) second monstrosity effect resolves, dealing 5 damage to your minions - Experimenter and mecha'thun die (game considers both of them as dead from now on) - game triggers Mecha'Thuns Deathrattle (checking the if-statement if you will) and puts it on the resolve stack with snapshot of THAT moment (experimenter and mecha'thun dead) - (4) Mecha'thuns effect resolves and you win the game This combo: [Your turn]: - Experimenter is played - Voodoo-Doll is played (1) - Mecha'Thun is played (2) ["End Turn"-Phase]: - Experimenters effect resolves, killing deathrattle minions (game considers them as dead from now on) - Game triggers their deathrattles (and checking mecha'thuns if-statement) and puts them on the resolve stack with snapshot of THAT moment (Voodo-Doll and Mecha'Thun dead, but Experimenter is STILL ALIVE) - (1) Voodoo-Dolls effect resolves, killing Experimenter (considered as dead from THIS moment onwards) - (2) Mecha'Thuns effect resolves but doesn't win you the game, because Experimenter was still considered alive when the effect was triggered. Pretty sure the game handles deathrattles this way, and there is a difference in the order/time when the deathrattles were triggered and when mecha'thun came into the game. Another difference, why the first combo works and the second not (because you could say "well, then why did monstrosities aoe-damage affect mecha'thun?!"), is because of the difference of triggering and resolving. While mecha'thun wasn't on the field when their deathrattle was triggered, he was when their aoe (which affects ALL of your minions) resolved. Also, check the two times mecha'thuns deathrattle got triggered, once all minions are dead, with the second one the experimenter was still alive...

[@un7ucky]

the three deathrattle cards die before it checks for a deathrattle of one of the 3. it groups those 3 together before it checks for any other deathrattle to go off

[@Ethan-nz8ll]

I think it's because Reckless Experimenter was played before Voodoo Doll, so the "end of turn" effect takes place before the Voodoo Doll's deathrattle which kills the Experimenter. But because the Mechathun dies at the "end of turn" phase, and before the Voodoo Deathrattle (which kills the experimenter). So the effect order would be EXPERIMENTER > VOODOO DOLL/MECHATHUN > VOODOO DOLL DEATHRATTLE It scans as though there is still a minion on board? So it doesn't meet the condition PS. This is what I think, so don't flame me too much pls.

[@SuperDoomed23]

Can't play voodoo doll first before reckless experimenter. You need to play reckless experimenter first to trigger the voodoo dolls effect at the end of the turn. If you play voodoo doll first then reckless experimenter then mechathun only mechathuns deathrattle will trigger at the end of turn then the field will be left with voodoo doll and reckless experimenter. Toast order is correct with reckless experimenter into voodoo doll into mecha'thun.

[@Ethan-nz8ll]

@@SuperDoomed23 I know that he did it in the only plausible way. But I think because according to cards effects activating in the order they are played, that would mean the Reckless Experimenter's effect would activate before the Voodoo Doll's. Which would essentially kill both. I think this means the game views the order as " End of turn effect > kills Doll and Mechathun > Doll and Mechathun Deathrattle search/effect > Experimenter dies " then again, I may be wrong and you may be right. Who can even tell with Blizzard anymore.

[@themightysven]

Has he tried making the OTK : Play Mecha'thun, Play one (or two) Lazul's Scheme to reduce it's attack to 0, play topsy turvy, Profit. Then the rest of the deck can be about cycling, and because the spells cost 0 the Galvanizers can be dropped.

[@felipepio4440]

Reckless only dies after voodoo doll dies (by the deathrattle effect), and voodoo doll dies at the same time of mecha'tun. So Reckless dies after Mecha'tun. This is the way i see.. don't seem like a bug.

[@DeeoMaika]

I don't get it. How is someone telling you that "when Mechathun dies the Reckless Experimenter is still alive on the board" is the same as explaining you the bug?

[@zanbugs8825]

There's no bug in the first and second attempt. Mechathun has to die and be the ONLY thing on the board. If you check carefully, you can see that Voodoo dies first, then Mechathun, and Experimenter following. It takes a longer moment for the timer of Voodoo to take effect on a card, which gave Experimenter a longer time to die.

[@adRozi]

It is a bug because it the Reckless SHOULD die at the same time as the voodoo, but as you can see it didnt happen so in paper it is a bug

[@johnj4471]

It's stupid how many people are claiming the bugs aren't bugs. The ASP bug that you showed people keep saying "the deathrattle was in play first thus it "goes off first"" even though Baron Rivendare does not make it trigger twice and is the same style effect.

[@G.Aaron.Fisher]

I think you figured it out by the end. But this is a natural consequence of the change announced as "Upcoming Game Mechanics Update" on October 2017, combined with the odd way that Hearthstone has always batched events and triggers. This was the change that prevented a summoned Pyromancer from triggering off of the spell that summoned it.

[@Pokeolin132]

Toast is right. Even if it was explained how it works right now, doesn't mean it's the intended way of working.

[@myblindyvids]

K1tsun and even if it is how it’s intended to work, it’s not the way it should work

[@dorodazlac5305]

1. Experimeter's effect triggers killing Mecha and Voodoo 2. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo die, triggering effect 3. Simultaneously Mecha and Voodoo deathrattles trigger 4. Simultaneously Mecha "win effect" triggers (Experimenter technically still on board) while Voodoo "kill effect" triggers to kill Experimenter 5. Simultaneously Mecha's effect resolves and does not "win" game while Voodoo effect resolves and kills Experimenter Hmm.. Just a thought, possible that this happened in order (looking at "trigger" and resolution" separately).

[@pierrotmoon1]

@@dorodazlac5305 how do you think you can explain this stuff when you use the word "simultaneously" and "while" to describe Hearthstone interactions.

[@Zhon66]

All effects in the same phase finish resolving before any minions are removed from the board. The experimenter is marked for death before mecha’thun triggers, but because both deathrattles occur in the same phase, mecha’thun is fully resolved before experimenter is removed from the board. This interaction is intended.

[@ALara-bl8nj]

@Stephen that's is right. This is not a bug.

[@renzoea4041]

What a nice way to start a day

[@leonardodellama9044]

I think this mechanic is working right. Because of how end of turn effects work. Usually all effects happen and then the inflicted deaths are processed. In this case the 2 end of turn effects are doll and mechathun. They die, as a end of turn effect, and voodoo "kills" the 4/6, but she only really dies when the inflicted deaths are processed. Take for example other end of turn examples, minions stay on the board after all end of turn effects happened, even being dead. So it's not a bug, its just inconsistency by Blizzards part.

[@shakuganfan99]

you actually could have won by killing the voodoo doll using the wild pyromancer, so the bug with the order does not happen.

[@baimuhtar8186]

Because you didn't attack at the start of the game

[@chimpson1993]

I think this is not a bug, when the turn ends mecha'thun and doll die, then the deathrattles activate at the same time, when the animation of both deathrattles ends then the rekkles experimenter dies. so when mecha'thun activates there is technically one minion on the board

[@JorgeEscobarMX]

At the moment of Mecha'thun deathrattle activation check, there where 2 other minions on the battlefield on Disguised Toast's side. So after that, they all die without triggering the effect. This can be clearly seen during their deaths animation where Mecha'thun dies before Reckless Experimenter due to it doesn't die until AFTER the Voodoo dolls deathrattle resolves. So Reckless Experimenter is still alive and well when Mecha'thun dies. So not a bug. It's working as intended.

[@bucketofcalzones457]

Oh cool a new mech thun priest, I loved that with quest. My favorite raven deck is back! Oh....

[@fatcat2015]

It’s definitely not a bug, all the deathrattle minions die at the end of the turn, meaning they all die at the same time, meaning that all the deathrattles are triggered before the other minion dies

[@dikdik6802]

no its not a bug actually, all death rallttle dies and trigger same time but the voodoo doll minion kill is triggered after the death rattles are triggered, so when all deathrattle's are dead the experimenter's death happenes after that, which mean by the time mechathun dies the reckless experimenter is still considered "alive" by the system, just due to the small delay of the voodoo doll death rattle (ie. doll has to die first to kill minions)

[@adRozi]

But the voodoo and the targeted minion should die at the same time

[@adRozi]

It doesnt say after it dies

[@derwolf7810]

Agreed, the death rattle of the Voodoo Doll just sets Reckless Experimenter's flag TO_BE_DESTROYED to true. The Reckless Experimenter is killed at the end of chain, just after Mecha'thun's deathrattle was processed.

[@adRozi]

@@derwolf7810 but shouldn't it follow the order?

[@dikdik6802]

@@adRozi think coffin crasher

[@dra9onslayer]

I think because they're on the same phase, it doesnt work. The reason abombs worked was because meccathun enters in the next phase of deathrattles, after the coffin crasher? I dont know.

[@cathsaigh2197]

MOHTTR must be so happy now.