This is How Vitamin C Affects Bread Dough | How to Use Ascorbic Acid

[@ChainBaker]

📖 Read more in the link below the video ⤴️ 🌾 If you would like to support my work click here ⤵️ www.ko-fi.com/chainbaker 🔪 Find all the things I use here ⤵️ 🇺🇸 www.amazon.com/shop/ChainBaker 🇬🇧 www.amazon.co.uk/shop/ChainBaker 🍞 Share your bread pictures here ⤵️ www.flickr.com/groups/chainbaker/

[@vq5962]

Thanks for the tips, though i would like to ask, why every time i make bread the outer layer always hard after, how do i make it softer?, like really soft japanese bread

[@TheSaltyOG]

I realize that what I am about to ask may seem sort of odd but... I'm kind of curious to know how Vitamin C impacts Ciabatta. You talked about it impacts bread but I wonder how it would impact something that goes through a process that gives it the complete opposite crumb from soft and fine.

[@easttennesseeexpat7545]

I have been using ascorbic acid in my bread since early 2020. I have observed it does two beneficial things: 1) It makes commercial yeast relatively insensitive to temperature variations in my kitchen. My house is cold in winter and quite warm in summer and with ascorbic acid, the yeast doesn't care. 2) Ascorbic acid makes it possible to get reliable rise with a ridiculously small amount of commercial yeast. Remember in 2020, yeast demand far exceeded the supply. As an example, make a 1.5 lb white loaf (400 g of flour). Begin at 3 PM. Add ~10 mg ascorbic acid and 0.125 teaspoon of yeast. After the dough is well mixed, pop it in the refrigerator until midnight. Then set the chilled dough on a counter. By 9 AM the dough will have doubled or tripled in size. From here, proceed as if the usual amount of yeast had been used. I found this worked pretty consistently and thus, the small amount of yeast I had on hand at the beginning of the pandemic was sufficient. Another observation is that ascorbic acid appears to have no effect on sourdough starter.

[@koubenakombi3066]

Thank you, Charlie! Since I've started following your channel my flour consumption went from 0lb to 8lb a month! And my kitchen smells amazing! Breadmaking is fun!

[@ChainBaker]

Awesome 😁

[@d.bcooper2271]

Your health??

[@GamerAgainstTheMachine]

@@d.bcooper2271 fast metabolism 😎👍 just think a lot, brain burns a lot of calories (and eat healthy on the side too)

[@vb4567]

Lemon juice also contains citric acid (vitamin C is ascorbic acid) at about 1.4gm/oz (5gm per 1/2 cup). The Citric acid, ie. the citrate ion, enters rapidly into the Krebs cycle of the mitochondria of the yeast cells producing energy and CO2 bubbles, whereas the yeast would normally need to change the carbohydrates (starch or sugars) into citrate before the mitochondria could take it up and use it. This could explain some of the rise due to faster yeast growth. In the USA I can buy packets of "Pizza crust yeast" which contain Ascorbic acid as a listed ingredient; I presume it creates a stretchier dough with enhanced gluten. Thanks for the videos.

[@cristinaalcantara7345]

As a newbie in bread making you are certainly giving us a good understanding in every aspect of bread making. Thanks so much😍

[@lbamusic]

Excellent presentation! - I got identical results using 1g AsAc in 650g of dough. Crumb was tighter and more uniform - oven spring was higher and bread was more moist. Thank you for your channel.

[@Just_Snowy]

Thank you for making the video. I used a vitamin C pill (50 mg) in 600g of all-purpose flour dough and it made the crust thinner and lighter, the bread stayed soft for at least 3 days in the fridge and outside of it, the crumb was so even with small bubbles, and the gluten was so well-developed.

[@Quibus777]

Yeah agree that one should avoid additifs yet I do use Vit C (powder) for most bread. Indeed taken from the big professional bakers. As Dutchie we use bread a bit different and we cant have our hagelslag (chocolate sprinkles) fall through the bread, so a crumb with tiny bubbles is the aim :) Also the bread sold at Dutch supermarkets and most bakers in The Netherlands is of decent to good quality, not to be mistaken for "Wonderbread" I use the ascorbid acid powder, 0.2% (salt since your vid on it 2%) and yeah I use a pretty precise scale for it. I measure salt, vit C and when hot in kitchen sugar on that scale, then toss it in a sturdy bag with the last flour and shake it till well combined and add that in de bowl. So for my typical amount of 1300gr flour and 780-ish) water that is 1.3gr or 1300mg, so compared to your 40 based on your amounts 12 times more. There is no sour taste at all. A little jar that cost me about the same a 3 lemons allows me to do at least 150 baking sessions where the lemons if one would use 100gr maybe could do a mere 4 to 5 (yet 100ml could be a littel too much if you taste it) So for me its easier, way cheaper to use the powder and it got the bread to the exact internal structure I was aiming for when I started baking 7/8 years ago. I do not use it on specialty bread like fougasse, just for the dough that will be mostly used for the daily loaves.

[@lazyjake93]

Vitamin C is added to most wheat flours in Denmark for its gluten developing abilities, since we for some reason have a hard time making strong flour. 9,5%-10,5% protein is most readily available 😬

[@TheDuckofDoom.]

Variety and thus the growing season weather sets the baseline potential, I see most hard wheat [high protein low moisture] varieties grow in areas of the world with modest annnual moisture and soft wheat is grown in areas with more moisture in the growing season. Within the limits of type and weather, harvestable plant protein is directly related to nitrogen. In the EU irrational nitrogen fertilizer restrictions are the primary cause of the dutch farming protests, so expect European grown wheat protein to move toward the low end of its range. Also, Ukraine through Kazakhstan is a major hard-wheat growing region and 2022 was a moderate drought year in the north American hard-wheat regions.

[@CuriousFocker]

I use an all purpose bread improver that contains ascorbic acid, been using it for several years, both for white and multi-grain bread. Great results every time.

[@buntyjakhu8304]

Where you can find the bread improver for pizza dough?

[@schrodingerscat1863]

The mill I get my flour from adds a little vitamin C to the flour they sell for bread making and I have to say it is by far the best flour I have used, better than any supermarket flour. Looking at the results of your experiment I think it is the vitamin C that makes the difference as bread I have made with this enhanced flour seems to have all the benefits you noticed in your experiment.

[@TimothyReeves]

Probably helps keep the flour from oxidizing as well as having the effect that it has on gluten formation.

[@smitajal9565]

Hi Charlie, i have been watching your videos from the time it was just your voice( believe me it was your voice that got me to start watching your videos 😄) really love how much you put into teaching us about bread baking...over the years ..thanks to you .a lot has changed in my process... This is another add on...a very interesting proces...Thank you so much for all your efforts you put in to give us the best..At 52, and with covid...bread baking has been my best company... Sending you loads of positive energies from India 💕💕💕💕

[@ChainBaker]

Thank you so much Smita! 🤩 I hope you'll get well soon! 🙏

[@jumper0122]

I've used vitamin C and commercial dough conditioner for exactly one thing -- Vietnamese baguettes. Weirdly enough, dough conditioner is literally traditional in these. They're a very new tradition, though -- when the French left Vietnam in the 1950s, the expensive french baguette (made from french imported wheat) sandwich had to be adapted to something non-wealthy people could eat to sustain the bakeries that had come about. What ended up happening was that the Vietnamese began getting expensive flour imported (primarily from the US) and then had to make the bread go much further to make it affordable. The resultant baguette is the namesake ingredient in banh mi sandwiches. Despite the myths, rice flour is not the way they achieve the impossibly cotton-like crumb and thin crisp crust. It's dough conditioner. A substantial 12" Vietnamese baguette might be made from only 70g of dough. I've tried making them dozens upon dozens of times with every recipe I can find, and while a conditioner-free dough can make a good baguette, it's nigh-impossible to get the right texture without it.

[@ChainBaker]

That's why my banh mi was not that light and fluffy! I think an update is in order. Cheers! :)

[@deenyc1049]

I've been waiting for this video, thanks for making it. I've used lemon juice making Vietnamese baguettes, I've done it without also and I felt like with lemon juice it was slightly fluffier but I wasn't sure if I was imagining it. This clears it up for me.

[@philip6502]

Nice one, Charlie. You not only answered many questions, but also saved some people from "investing" in pure vitamin C. As you know, I live in a high humidity climate. If I have bread for more than 4-5 days, it will begin to mold. So, I always freeze half of the loaf. Thanks. 💯

[@ZaneKyber]

Heat treatment of citrus juice not only kills the vitamin C but also kills almost all of the flavor as well because citrus juice is very very temperature sensitive. So there is zero worry of the final bread tasting like lemon juice when adding a small amount like in this recipe.

[@ElJosher]

I live in a tropical country and even though flour is milled locally, that means wheat berries have to be imported. Naturally that leads to not having the best wheat grains that exist, so the high gluten bread flour that I get has absorbic acid and vital wheat gluten added. I’m grateful that, even if it is not pure natural high gluten flour, i get to enjoy the benefits of high gluten for crusty breads.

[@4.0.4]

Thanks for explaining a chemical you don't use and why, also showing what it does!

[@Qaeter]

Acerola cherry powder is also used for baking with an exceptionally high natural vitamin C concentration of about 10% 😉

[@ronaldmartin7892]

An interesting video. I use crushed vitamin C tablets in my bread here in Thailand. Looking at your end pictures of the loaves crusts, they look exactly as mine do. A wrinkled crust and slightly deflated after cooling. I've been reading that one reason could be the lack of ventilation under the cooling rack. My other problem is trying to get the heat right in my electric oven. My old gas oven is on its last legs. With the door wedged shut with a length of bamboo, but it used to make crusty bread. I think I'll go back to it. Keep the videos coming.

[@jamesvoigt7275]

Cooking equipment can be challenging, can't it? Good luck with your ovens.

[@ThixWhix]

very interesting i was expecting the doughs with acid prevents it from browning, however it doesnt seem to have any noticeable differences

[@amplituhedron5582]

I live in a very humid environment, this year I got my sourdough bread get moldy for the first time ever since it's unusually humid. First time it was white mold, second time green mold, after a couple of days. Because it's very hot I don't consume as much bread as I use to during colder periods.

[@wayneyeo186]

@@kevinu.k.7042 I visit a hot humid climate fairly regularly. When i make bread there, i cut the finished loaf in half about 30 - 45 minutes after finishing, and freeze half. Yes i use a pinch Vitamin C, an egg, along with about 1 teaspoon of Diastatic Malt, and have for years.

[@FaithLikeAMustardSeed]

Very interesting! I like how the C evened out the crumb and enhanced the rise. I'll be giving it a try!

[@mandiigraham1596]

That was interesting. Not sure I would bother though as I mostly make sourdough these days. But if I did it would be lemon juice. Just remembered, I did make a yeasted frui loaf some time ago and added 1/2 cup orange juice ( liquid content modified) and it was one of the best fruit breads I made. Must do that again.

[@hudaghassan5912]

Nice work. I always add lemon juice to cake dough, it make it fluffier and higher rising.

[@Christoph1888]

Thanks again for a great comparison video. Been experimenting with vit c for high Hydration doughs.

[@marchache]

Another option (at least in North America) is to use bread machine flour. Has ascorbic acid and amylase. Costco here also carries a bread makers flour containing both of those. Amazing flour. As to whether it's cheating..I'd say not. It depends on what you are after. If your aim is to make an soft, enriched sandwich bread where most of the flavour comes from the enrichments, then use all the tools at your disposal . My standard loaf uses yudane, a sourdough preferment, potato flakes and bread machine flour. If you want a lean, slow fermented dough (french baguette etc) where the flavour comes from the flour and the fermentation times them go with an unbleached high protein flour.

[@andybonneau9209]

Very interesting. You seem to have gotten a better rise from the acidified loaves.

[@none941]

I listened to this because I have seen Ascorbic acid used to make Banh Mi. Your exploration explains why it is used to make those specialist rolls. Very interesting. Still, it is no use to me in baking the breads I prefer. Cheers!

[@magnusbestest]

That was a very useful video on understanding the effects of Vitamin C when making a bread, thanks

[@oldvlognewtricks]

Fascinating stuff, as always. Can’t wait to see more breakdowns and comparisons of other dough improvers!

[@clagygulap]

I once put 0.2% (i.e. 2g per 1000g of flour) of ascorbic acid in a lean dough. After mixing at high speed, the gluten got so tight that it was impossible for me to shape the loaves without tearing them. The resulting bread was pockmarked and incredibly chewy (think bread jerky). I had fun eating it with over easy eggs.

[@richardmh1987]

I haven´t used vitamin C nor lemon juice, but I´ve been looking forward to bake a recipe I found for "Rosca de Reyes" (I think is "King´s Cake"), which is kind like brioche but uses fresh orange juice instead of milk or water and the result is not only a very soft bread but also a slight taste of orange. If I bake it I will tell you the results.

[@ChainBaker]

Here's my version btw kzbin.info/www/bejne/oWWzXnWNfaxja7c 😉

[@syedazli6580]

My mom use vinegar in her bread.(its diff acid) I think its bcoz it would make the process speeding up a bit by reduce kneading time. She used to selling bread for living.

[@tommiller1315]

Wow! Just what I looked for. Now subscribed 🙂 I tried an effervescent Vit C tablet in a loaf, it tasted very acidic (too much Vit C), and I got a migraine from the aspartame! I have now got pure Vit C powder to try - 500g. Enough for 25,000 loaves I discovered 🤣

[@edmundtiou7492]

I read that using ascorbic acid can retain the crumb color especially when using natural fruit/vegetable coloring when it usually get lost after baking. I hope you can test it.

[@christinap.2258]

Thanks so much for explaining these different techniques. Very interesting...

[@drusilla3882]

My grandmother always put a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar ... she was from New Orleans and she claimed the bread kept longer in the extreme heat/humidity. No idea if it was true because I don't think a loaf ever lasted 2 days before it was inhaled ... by me.

[@jbz9547]

Definitely an eye opener. Thanks a million for this video. I am wondering now, if acid of other kind works the same way, in particular buttermilk or sourmilk in yeasted dough.

[@ChainBaker]

That's another experiment waiting to be made 😄

[@lavague7648]

Thanks a lot. By the way lemon juice contains also citric acid. So you cover with your video also the effect of citric acid as additive 😊

[@Matowix]

What about the preservatives in store brought lemon juice ? Will it kill the yeast ?

[@ChainBaker]

I think it should be ok. Store bought bread can contain worse things and it fermented somehow anyway 😄

[@asterixky]

By the way, Green, Red, yellow and all the Bell peppers have more Vitamin C than Oranges, without the Sugar. Keep up the great baking videos.

[@philip6502]

You sure won't see me sitting down eating any Bell peppers for my dose! 😋

[@ChainBaker]

😆

[@DaporotiYat]

I use ascorbic acid for my bhanmi... Vietnamese baguettes. Its suppose to make the dough rise better. Crispy on the outside. Fluffy on the inside.

[@alexbowman7330]

This is one of the topics that I really wanted to hear your opinion on. I'm interested to see how this goes. The other topic is the bassinage method and if it can be useful for hand kneading bakers.

[@ChainBaker]

That one is on my list too :)

[@alexbowman7330]

Would it be too "Spoiler Alert"-ish to get the simple answer out of you right now? Can the bassinage method be practical for hand kneading?

[@ChainBaker]

I've actually never tried it by hand, so I guess we'll find out together :)

[@alexbowman7330]

@@ChainBaker Okay. Sounds like a plan. I appreciate your time.

[@alexbowman7330]

@@ChainBaker Being able to hand knead at a lower hydration before adding the remaining water would be a nice option at times. That is unless the side effects are too negative.

[@lordofdarkness5505]

I learn so mutch from your videos! Thank you so mutch for this

[@quentinpan5712]

I was surprised by how Vietnamese add lime juice or Vitamin C to their bánh mì, but now I see possible reasons behind that!

[@joskamps4711]

hey man, great video! As you're also living in the UK, you might find this interesting. Tesco's Allinson Easy Bake Yeast Tin (100 g), comes with ascorbic acid and is said to be better for baking bread. It's my default yeast source haha

[@ChainBaker]

I have that yeast at home right now 😄 but I always use the Doves farm one.

[@RedshirtAfficionado]

I know nothing of baking but always tune in for a new vid

[@mversantvoort]

Very interesting, thank you for the thorough comparison! Would extra kneading/folding/shaping help to strenghten the basic dough so that it rises up more vertically like the doughs with vitamin C did?

[@ChainBaker]

To an extent, yes. But even with tighter shaping doughs made with weaker flour will relax sooner. Perhaps an extra fold or two during bulk fermentation and then a tight shape and a quicker final proof would work.

[@lindaprimm667]

Always enjoy your comparisons.

[@renatopeteanmarino8094]

Almost 100k subscribers! Well done! Your videos are amazing!

[@ChainBaker]

😍

[@pijcab]

Now this has me wondering what's the better option (and whether if they're doing the same thing or not) : adding vitamin C to help the already present gluten in your flour OR add gluten in powder form to your flour? I'm having issues with rising my bread (I'm looking for airy bread but none of the methods I tried yet worked well enough or consistently enough) especially at the baking stage (my oven doesn't get hot enough unfortunately, stays around the 200°C range max) so I am indeed looking for ways to cheat for now until I can get a better oven. Also would love a video about gluten powder like this one btw 😅

[@ChainBaker]

Here's a video I made about VWG a while back. It would be interesting to compare it with vitamin C. I may do that someday. Funny enough I'm planning to film a Vietnamese baguette video today using ascorbic acid. 200C is not too bad. I bake most breads at or under that temp.

[@roballan4661]

Thanks Charlie - really interesting again! I'm wondering if adding Vitamin C would help in high hydration bakes? I've been trying to find some Vital Wheat Gluten to increase the strength of the flours I have access to (~11%) but cant find it locally and spending $10 in shipping to get $9 of ingredients seems silly - which is currently the best offer.

[@philip6502]

Local stores used to commonly stock vital gluten. Now they've jumped on the anti-gluten bandwagon. No offense, but such a small % of the population has medical issues with gluten, it gets annoying that it has become trendy. (and that's me... filtered.) I got my recent gluten from Amazon. Not too pricey if I recall.

[@lbamusic]

@@philip6502 Amaz price is $19 for 4 pounds - just got some wgt glu ystd.

[@ChainBaker]

It may help with strengthening the gluten. But I have not tried it in a high hydration dough so I can't say for certain.

[@philip6502]

@@lbamusic I bought a much smaller packet as my bread flour is pretty good.

[@lbamusic]

@@ChainBaker I have tried it with dough @ 80% total hydration. It doesn't take much to work - about 1/4 teaspoon (.6gm)

[@gaborszabo9804]

I'm most interested in getting the biggest rise possible. You say the same effect can be achieved with fat. I don't understand why that is true, but even if it's true, I think getting the rise without adding fat is more healthy. Anyways, thank you for the video, exploring the topic of dough conditioners :) it's funny that I made a comment about vitamin C under your dough overworking video, and now you have a video about it 😂 I haven't used vitamin C since I overworked that dough, but now I think I'll give it one more try :)

[@SoftBreadSoft]

Fat gives bigger oven spring not necessarily the rising. Dough also takes a bit longer to ferment and rise with fats. For a 500g loaf you only need to about 100 calories worth of fats for a significant difference, you dont have to go brioche on it

[@gaborszabo9804]

@@SoftBreadSoft Yeah, I meant the biggest volume possible for the finished product, either rise or oven spring. Although I don't know how the two are related (is it a zero sum game?).

[@SoftBreadSoft]

​@@gaborszabo9804Maybe not exactly zero sum but they do work in tandem

[@Mark_Nadams]

I turned to baking bread because it was getting increasingly difficult to find a store bought bread not made with some form of phosphoric acid. I am unable to tolerate phosphoric acid. So I am not a fan of acid but I think the lemon would be OK. Probably tastes a bit like sourdough.

[@Helllllllsing]

I am not sure that I would use special kemichals often but I would like to try at least one time to replicate a bought loaf. Like scalded rye (typical swedish), sourdough, malt, oil and ascorbic acid. I have tested every variant by itself but not together.

[@violetparker8505]

I don't know if you are a mind reader but i was thinking about vitamin C and was thinking if you would upload about it and her we are thank you so much for this video. Do make a video with All purpose flour,soy lecithin powder, vitamin c and ginger powder. Thank you again

[@ChainBaker]

Lecithin episode coming next week I think 😉

[@violetparker8505]

@@ChainBaker thank you so much

[@beepboop8184]

Here in Finland we have almost all four sold already with ascorbic acid. Should I intentionally look for "pure" flour or just buy what I can easily source from local grocery store? Also, I am usually not really into that fuss about "organic" and "natural" stuff.

[@ChainBaker]

Use what you have. Most dry yeast also contains ascorbic acid. It will make the dough stronger, so it'll be easier to work with.

[@aceee4386]

It's not cheating. It's chemistry and choice!

[@Jeepy2-LoveToBake]

Thanks for sharing this very informative comparison video about acidity affects bread dough. I have never thought about using Ascorbic acid in my baking - perhaps it's because I would just skip any recipe that required it? Perhaps one day I'll give it a try with lemon juice. As always thanks for sharing - we learn so much from you. Y'all, we are at 98.6K with 100K soooo close!!!. If you haven't already, share your bakes with family and friends and post photos on your social media channels (and of course, don't forget to mention his YT channel and ask them to subscribe). Don't forget to sign up for "Charlie's Baking Buddies" - a great community with other bakers - we share photos, comments, ideas, and recipes. You can find the link in the Description section (click "SHOW MORE"). Go "Team ChainBaker"!!! 📣📣📣

[@ChainBaker]

Can't hurt to try it out :) lemon juice works great. I should update mi banh mi recipe using it. Apparently that is the trick 😁 Cheers for the great support, Lan! We'll be there in just a couple of weeks 🥳

[@philip6502]

Is the 100K party at your place? 💃

[@Jeepy2-LoveToBake]

@@philip6502 It would be a party of one 😁.

[@philip6502]

@@Jeepy2-LoveToBake Oh... I see. 1️⃣

[@Jeepy2-LoveToBake]

@@philip6502 unless we can set up a virtual gathering of his subscribers - I can't even fathom the logistics for something like that

[@rb-ex]

fun and excellent experiment. love the sense of curiosity. might not be what you intended, but i think you convinced me to try ascorbic acid powder in my hamburger buns (which i make lean), and in japanese milk bread. keep up the great work

[@mirrana491]

I've been watching a lot of your videos lately. I'm curious why you shape your pan loaves the way you do. What I'm referring to is how you start by folding in the top corners and create kind of a triangle type shape before rolling the dough. Is there a specific benefit to doing it this way?

[@ChainBaker]

The loose part of the dough inevitably becomes narrower than the rolled up part as you roll up the loaf. Starting narrow from the top prevents the loose part from becoming narrower than the roll before it's fully shaped. Think of rolling cinnamon rolls. The dough is straight and as you keep going it becomes narrow and you need to pull it out sideways. This triangle technique also makes the loaf a bit tighter.

[@nadeemqwerty]

Thanks @ChainBaker for the informative video. Guys, do we have any similar channels for roasting meat and chicken?

[@ChainBaker]

Thank you! :) I can't help there as I don't watch any food-tubers 😅

[@kaolinwasher]

I make 400 g batches and 60% is whole graine fresh milled, the 40% is king arthers bread flour . and i did somthing diffrent this time and got the highest rise in the bread flour I have ever got , not withstanding Half of the 60% hole grain was rye flour , this is what i did . I made a cup of rice but as usual i washed the rice and took that milky looking water and used 1 cup of it to make the bread + i added 2 table spoons of orange juice, and one egg yolk, I took a pinch of bread yeast to the 60% and the 1 cup of rice water and fermented it with the 60% for 12 hours then added the egg and one table spoon of avocado oil and the salt to the bread flour and mixed it in and let it rise , then let it sit 2 hours and wedged it again and into the pan. and waited about 3 hours and into my turkey roaster at 350f for 45 minutes and the bread rose the highest i ever saw it rise . maybe its the orange juice, maybe the rice water and egg yolk combined but I got what i was after , it rose into the heavens

[@raewynglenyse-stockdale8533]

If I mill my own flour, will adding lemon juice help gluten development if my flour doesn't have as much protein as store brought flour?

[@ChainBaker]

I have not worked with freshly milled flour yet. Once I get my hands on a mill I will definitely make videos about it. The only way to find out is by experimenting, so give it a try and see how it works.

[@raewynglenyse-stockdale8533]

Thank you for your videos, I made the basic white loaf today and it's awesome. I have another dough in the fridge now to finish my second loaf tomorrow.Once I make a few more I will mill some of my own flour and add to brought flour and see what happens. You have taught me so much about the chemistry of bread making, it's fascinating, and I love listening to you talk. @@ChainBaker

[@Maher-]

Awesome video Charlie thanks for sharing

[@alansolis565]

Hi, man. Excellent video, as usual. Could you make a video of bread improvers? Some people use it, some others don't. I would like to know why. Regards!

[@ChainBaker]

I may do in the future. I have never used them and I don't see a reason to do so. I don't even use vitamin C. It's just not necessary.

[@SarahPoulin]

This is really interesting that the ascorbic acid created a tighter, more closed crumb. That's actually what I'm looking for! I know everyone wants an open crumb, but I want a good sandwich bread. 😅 So, question... it appears that the ascorbic acid strengthens the gluten protein network... do you think it would strengthen gluten free bread at all? It seems no matter what kind of gf bread I bake, it's either dense with a closed/tight crumb, or fluffy with an open crumb. I'm looking for the fluffy with closed/tight crumb, like sandwich bread.

[@ChainBaker]

I'm not sure. So far I have not baked any gluten free breads, so I can't comment. It's on my list though. If you want a tighter crumb and ultimate softness, then use the scalding method - kzbin.info/www/bejne/o3WQdYqGlsuAg80

[@elizabethconvey3242]

An interesting comparison. I did some research into Vitamin C and lemon juice with regards to its use in bread making. One thing you didn't mention is that just a tiny amount of lemon juice will de-chlorinate the water which can be a benefit. I usually use 2 Tsps of lemon juice to a 500g of flour loaf - I can never taste it but I think it definitely helps with the dough rising (yeast prefers a slightly acidic environment) and for shelf life ... personally, I don't think adding lemon juice is 'cheating' ... it's using chemistry/science. 👍😊

[@kiawang6220]

Do you use only ripe lemons?

[@elizabethconvey3242]

@@kiawang6220 It really doesn't matter, as long as the lemon juice hasn't 'gone off'. It isn't the Vitamin C content that's important, it's the acidity as far as bread making is concerned because yeast prefers a slightly acid environment; if I haven't got fresh lemons, I use bottled juice which I keep in the fridge. The vitamin C is virtually destroyed by cooking. For de-chlorinating water, again, just fresh juice i.e. lemons that haven't gone soft or hard, fresh enough to grate the zest. The scientific research papers I read about de-chlorinating water, didn't specify how 'ripe' the lemons were or how 'fresh' the lemon juice was.

[@DD-tv3hs]

What an interesting experiment! Does sourdough work like ascorbic acid by producing natural acetic and lactic acid? I enjoy baking various yeast bread recipes converted into sourdough. It's all thanks to you.

[@ChainBaker]

I think Said has put it well.

[@rosemary20001]

I use ascorbic acid to neutralize the chloramines in my city water which might inhibit my sourdough starter. I also use it when I make vegetable ferments. I can't see why this is "cheating" as you say - is it cheating that I use salt instead of seawater?

[@ChainBaker]

That is interesting. I never knew it could do that. Thanks for sharing. I guess I just thought it was too easy. But it does have its uses for sure.

[@hiltonwieffering295]

Dose lemon juice extend shelf life as well?

[@ChainBaker]

The acidity could prevent the bread from moulding perhaps.

[@smssince2011]

We don't get bread flour in Pakistan, and if we do, it is ridiculously priced. I think I will give this a try with my breads.

[@AnthonyLeighDunstan]

Very informative. I had no idea ascorbic acid had this kind of affect on gluten. I might just use what looks to be about 20g lemon juice in your standard white flour boule I make regularly. We’ve been trying out heritage (primitive) flour from PRONAT here in Romania. I’ve noticed although the protein content is an impressive 14%, the actual gluten strands seem more like spelt making the dough looser and in some cases more sticky. The rise isn’t as impressive as an organic flour from your usual commercial brand. So I’m going to try the lemon juice with my next batch and carefully document the results. Using your recipe with the preferment could be a game changer for me. I’ve been less than impressed with the results of using this flour so far. In saying that, this heritage flour seems to work really well with enriched doughs and stretchy doughs like pizza and focaccia and naan. So it has its benefits.

[@ChainBaker]

Oh yes protein percentage is not always the best indicator. 20g lemon juice should do it. You can also add some buttermilk, yogurt, or sour cream for acidity.

[@AnthonyLeighDunstan]

@@ChainBaker I recently watched your vid on the sour creams and will definitely do that! I didn’t mention it, but the heritage flour flavour is really quite amazing so this could change things majorly.

[@vq5962]

Thank you for the tips, could lemon juice be used for donut's dough too ?

[@ChainBaker]

I don't see why not. It can be used in any dough :)

[@adangarcia5417]

Hello! I know it is not the same, but, how would you put the 40 mg of vitamin C in spoons? An 1/8 of a tea spoon? Just so i have a referencce if my scale does not meeasure tiny amounts... tank you! ❤

[@ChainBaker]

It would be something ridiculous like 1/240th 😅

[@alexandersalamon7242]

I’ll try definitely

[@clericneokun]

I tried using lemon juice and the acidity plus aroma of the lemon were definitely a bit noticeable. I think I'll just stick to pure ascorbic acid next time.

[@StuartFarrimond]

Love your videos. Most places I've read say that acids weaken gluten networks, resulting in a looser crumb (McGee in On Food and Cooking and elsewhere) and yet here you show that citric acid works to strengthen gluten (and as you say, it is used in industry). What gives?

[@ChainBaker]

It also works when using vinegar, yogurt, buttermilk, etc.

[@StuartFarrimond]

@@ChainBaker That's interesting. So do you know what happens in cakes / other bakes? Is McGee wrong about acids weakening gluten networks?

[@kvltovfreki6020]

This has got me wondering how doing the same with malic acid would affect a bread, and whether it would be worth using something like Bramley or similar cooking apple juice, which is pretty high in malic acid, would affect a bread in comparison to pure malic acid, like the ascorbic acid and lemon juice. Of course this could also lead to making an apple cake and or bread intentionally if you don't want to have cooking apples going to waste and malic acid could of course be used to make sour candies or experiments, maybe sour doughnuts, which given the previous sourdough doughnut recipe on here, could be fun wordplay though unsure how it would balance out, also another excuse to make more doughnuts, it's for the channel! 🤣

[@bengrebollido5960]

Will adding lemon juice to muffin dough help to increase the height of the muffins?

[@ChainBaker]

Muffin batter should be as loose as possible. Lemon juice may tighten it and not let it expand as well. You can certainly use acidic ingredients in muffin recipes but not for the purpose of making the batter rise more. Saying that, if you use baking soda then you absolutely must use acid to make it react and rise at all.

[@bengrebollido5960]

@@ChainBaker Thanks Charlie! 😊

[@StanOwden]

What is the protein content of the flour that you use for this experiment?

[@ChainBaker]

13%

[@jeijayp7119]

Can i mix lemon juice and bread improver?

[@ChainBaker]

I don't see why not!

[@Piery83_]

Lemon juice is used also to reduce the rigidity of flours with high p/l ratio

[@DigiMannen]

I use in my yeast water, where I have 1.5 gr yeast/1000gr and 0,2 gr ascorbic acid. Use that mix for preferment where I mix 50/50 flour water. Easier to have it pre mixed like that.

[@TheSaltyOG]

Hey Charlie! I was just wondering if you might be able to include a video on the effects of Apple Cider Vinegar and White Vinegar on bread dough if you have not already. Peace, and Much Love!

[@ChainBaker]

It's on my to-do list. I have not tried it yet though :) but I will do it soon.

[@TheSaltyOG]

@@ChainBaker wonderful! I am so excited 😁

[@vitalytarasov1658]

I would be curious to see this experiment repeat on whole rye flour, which is notoriously difficult to laven with yeast. Can lemon juice produce the same effect as lactic acid of sourdough?

[@ChainBaker]

There are definitely more experiments in order! :)

[@harryjohnson6527]

Would buttermilk or sour cream have acidification impact?

[@ChainBaker]

Yes. Here's a video about that kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2TddaeaatGMesU ✌️

[@A..S.M]

Thank you for this perfect work. However I read some documents written the vit c can be around 0.03% of flour weight this amount is practical?

[@ChainBaker]

Yes, it is quite strong, so you need a very small amount. It is used mostly in commercial bakeries with larger batches. You can use other acids to the same effect. Buttermilk and yogurt are great alternatives.

[@A..S.M]

@@ChainBaker Thank you Sir, how about percentage. And are you going to make video for these ingredients buttermilk and yoghurt?

[@ChainBaker]

@A..S.M here it is kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2TddaeaatGMesUsi=SQd11uR0rFW_S3bn

[@A..S.M]

I use around 100 mg of vit C for 1.4 kg flour for making pizza I have noticed that the pizza was perfect but one while I reheat the pizza again the pizza become solid like stone 😂😂😁 I can't understand what happened

[@davidklinger6105]

I really like these experiments and thank you for doing them. I've wondered for a while about this and now I know. I need to go back and check to see if you've done an experiment like this with diastatic malt. I'd like to hear your conclusions about if and when it's appropriate to use it.

[@ChainBaker]

Cheers, David! I did touch on it in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXW8hJewqJiXp8k

[@davidklinger6105]

@@ChainBaker Thank you, Charlie. I watched it and it answered all my questions. The hell of it is, I watched that content once before. It's excellent, as usual. How I forgot that I watched it - don't get old, Charlie. It's not good.

[@ChainBaker]

I'm in my early 30's and my memory is already not great 😄 but as long as I don't forget how to make bread it'll be all good!

[@fayeliu2601]

Thank you for the experiment, I was wondering about some of the recipes I’ve seen, using lemon or Orange juice. What about using the plain yogurt? Your thoughts please 🙏🏻❤️

[@philip6502]

I used sour cream once. It produced a soft white bread.

[@ChainBaker]

That video is still on my list :)

[@fayeliu2601]

@@ChainBaker 👍🏻🙏🏻❤️

[@Vivienvixen]

Such a biased view and a bit of personal rant 🤔🤣 I have actually used Vit C in some of my enriched breads as it does, imho, offsets the gluten development some. I like the final result with it rather than without. I e used lemon juice as well, but prefer the plain Vit C as the lemon juice tended to “flavor” the dough, which I do not want. Enjoyed the vid. Cheers 🍻😉

[@JohnDoe-mu4ts]

Can vitamin c mantain color in a dough during baking ?

[@ChainBaker]

Not sure how it affects colour. It did seem that the crumb of the ascorbic acid loaf was whiter.

[@sebastiansanguinetiabascal7941]

Excelente thanks 🙏

[@pn3940]

I think I heard that dough improver, isn't needed, but it helps getting away with over kneading.

[@ChainBaker]

Perhaps.

[@boysrus61]

I used 2 vitamin C tablets crushed and then added to my bread machine. It seemed to help the bread rise better.

[@margritkaminsky1470]

This is fun. Also interesting tastewise.

[@sugarapple5465]

How does alcohol affect dough? I’ve seen some using vodka, what about beer etc..

[@ChainBaker]

Beer can be used to make tasty whole grain bread or even white ones. Vodka would be best used in small amounts in fried dough to make it puff up a bit better

[@sugarapple5465]

Thanks 🙏🙏🙏

[@ezee51]

So lemon juice would do the same?

[@ChainBaker]

Should do!

[@rolandkleiner1573]

Please write a book.